If you are interested in this I would suggest looking around at who your closest matches are. Try www.ysearch.org, http://smgf.org, www.ybase.org, www.yhrd.org. You could also join and/or contact the E3b project which is at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/freemanDNAProject/index.aspx . They are trying to classify the main variants. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: N & K Chestnut [mailto:nkopportunity@gorge.net] Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2006 3:57 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Haplogroup E3b - SMITH Andrew - the surname was SMITH, Robert born 25 Dec 1778 Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland [the 25th of Dec. was reported from his son, Robert Black SMITH's descendant, supposedly the same birthday as the son] married Martha EAKIN, dau. of John EAKIN & Margaret POSTEN/POSTEM, about 1815 same area as Robert's birth. I don't seem to know exactly when Robert and his family came to America. I have before me a transcription of the 1850 census - Pennsylvania, Butler Co., Venango Twp. [dwelling 589 & family 595] Robert SMITH age 59 b. Ireland, Martha age 57 b. Ireland, William age 24 b. Ireland, Mary J. age 17 b. PA. and David age 14 b. PA. Martha died about 1863 (tombstone difficult to read). On the 1880 census Robert is with married dau. Mary Jane [EAKIN, by marriage]in Venango Co., PA. Robert's age is 96 and occupation is weaver. Robert SMITH died 16 Mar 1881 Scrubgrass Twp., Venango Co., PA. If his birth year really was 1778, Robert was over 100 years old, which was repeated by descendants of several of his children. Robert's sons were named - John Eakin SMITH, Robert Black SMITH, William M. SMITH & David G. SMITH. At least one descendant reported that Robert SMITH's mother was - Ann MITCHELL. A descendant of David G. SMITH has yDNA in the N.E. SMITH Project of U.S.A., and so far matches with no one. A "y-search" showing genetic distance of 1 [with only 12 markers]is a GOLDSMITH with an origin of Warsaw, Poland. Our participant did 37 markers. Any suggestions? Kay C. - contact person for the SMITH cousin ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Hi Kay E3b is not the most common haplotype in Scotland, but it is also certainly not "foreign" in the sense that it appears to have been in Britain for a very long time. I suspect it is more common in lowland areas than highland areas though. This would make sense because it seems to have entered Europe with the first farmers and potters from the Middle East. What is the surname? Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: N & K Chestnut [mailto:nkopportunity@gorge.net] Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 2:03 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Sorry folks, my Scotch-Irishman's descendant came up with Haplogroup E3b. Not what I expected either! Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Dear Richard The most common SNP-defined haplogroup in Scotland is R1b1c, which is a branch of R1b1, which is a branch of R1b, etc. The second most common is I1a, which is of course a branch of I. So the only ununusual news is the K, which seems to be more common in the Mediterranean than in Britain. Nevertheless it is present there. I believe Thomas Jefferson was one. Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Reddick [mailto:rdreddick@charter.net] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:30 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com: In studying our growing R320 DNA project results, notice two "Haplotype" categories seem dominant for those of known Scot or Scot-Irish ancestry: "I" and "R1b1" There is also "R1b" and "R1b1c" represented and one new report indicating "K2." A couple of the project members have ordered the "SNP" analysis which confirmed "I" and R1b1." Questions: Are these the more common Haplos for Scotland? What does the SNP analysis report really tell us about our origins? What is the significance of matches to other surnames (most numerous seem to be several 37 markers exact matches to Bingham/Bigham/Bigum)? The genealogy DNA firms represented are FTDNA and EA (EthnoAncestry). Our project page also includes those with Germanic origins: <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx>http://www. fa mi lytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx Thanks, Richard D. Reddick ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599& ta rgetid=5429 ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Mailing List archives are at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Subscription to this list is free, as are all of Rootsweb's resources. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Interesting my WILLIAMS line in the U.S. is R1a; but most of the WILLIAMSes in that surname project are NOT R1a. So far I have no idea when my WILLIAMS immigrated, and we are assuming from Wales. Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: jimhalcrow To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? Jim Halcrow Jeo@aol.com wrote: > Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and > ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be > interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. > > James Orr, Chicago > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Sorry for the duplication, I intended for this message to be a response to the Haplogroup I thread. -----Original Message----- From: corvettenutz@bellsouth.net [mailto:corvettenutz@bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:45 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study The I Haplogroup indicates a Norwegian, Danish or Scandinavian heritage, there are several subdivisions of the I group. I1a is the most common. I am an I1a of either the Norse or Ultra Norse group. My Haplogroup is not the same as the other members in my surname project, which indicates either an adoption or out of wedlock birth. If you will google Ken Norveldt's website, there is a very good explanation of the I group and it's subdivisions. Jim Lovelace -----Original Message----- From: jimhalcrow [mailto:jimhalcrow@waitrose.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:17 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? Jim Halcrow Jeo@aol.com wrote: > Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and > ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be > interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. > > James Orr, Chicago > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006 ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Need to contact the list admin? Send your email to Scot-DNA-admin@rootsweb.com Want to post? Send your email to Scot-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Need to unsubscribe for vacation or? Send your unsubscription request to Scot-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com Scot-DNA list is a flame free zone. Want to join the Project? Visit: http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006

The I Haplogroup indicates a Norwegian, Danish or Scandinavian heritage, there are several subdivisions of the I group. I1a is the most common. I am an I1a of either the Norse or Ultra Norse group. My Haplogroup is not the same as the other members in my surname project, which indicates either an adoption or out of wedlock birth. If you will google Ken Norveldt's website, there is a very good explanation of the I group and it's subdivisions. Jim Lovelace -----Original Message----- From: jimhalcrow [mailto:jimhalcrow@waitrose.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:17 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? Jim Halcrow Jeo@aol.com wrote: > Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and > ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be > interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. > > James Orr, Chicago > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 3/28/2006

Andrew - the surname was SMITH, Robert born 25 Dec 1778 Co. Londonderry, Northern Ireland [the 25th of Dec. was reported from his son, Robert Black SMITH's descendant, supposedly the same birthday as the son] married Martha EAKIN, dau. of John EAKIN & Margaret POSTEN/POSTEM, about 1815 same area as Robert's birth. I don't seem to know exactly when Robert and his family came to America. I have before me a transcription of the 1850 census - Pennsylvania, Butler Co., Venango Twp. [dwelling 589 & family 595] Robert SMITH age 59 b. Ireland, Martha age 57 b. Ireland, William age 24 b. Ireland, Mary J. age 17 b. PA. and David age 14 b. PA. Martha died about 1863 (tombstone difficult to read). On the 1880 census Robert is with married dau. Mary Jane [EAKIN, by marriage]in Venango Co., PA. Robert's age is 96 and occupation is weaver. Robert SMITH died 16 Mar 1881 Scrubgrass Twp., Venango Co., PA. If his birth year really was 1778, Robert was over 100 years old, which was repeated by descendants of several of his children. Robert's sons were named - John Eakin SMITH, Robert Black SMITH, William M. SMITH & David G. SMITH. At least one descendant reported that Robert SMITH's mother was - Ann MITCHELL. A descendant of David G. SMITH has yDNA in the N.E. SMITH Project of U.S.A., and so far matches with no one. A "y-search" showing genetic distance of 1 [with only 12 markers]is a GOLDSMITH with an origin of Warsaw, Poland. Our participant did 37 markers. Any suggestions? Kay C. - contact person for the SMITH cousin ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Hi Kay E3b is not the most common haplotype in Scotland, but it is also certainly not "foreign" in the sense that it appears to have been in Britain for a very long time. I suspect it is more common in lowland areas than highland areas though. This would make sense because it seems to have entered Europe with the first farmers and potters from the Middle East. What is the surname? Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: N & K Chestnut [mailto:nkopportunity@gorge.net] Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 2:03 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Sorry folks, my Scotch-Irishman's descendant came up with Haplogroup E3b. Not what I expected either! Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Dear Richard The most common SNP-defined haplogroup in Scotland is R1b1c, which is a branch of R1b1, which is a branch of R1b, etc. The second most common is I1a, which is of course a branch of I. So the only ununusual news is the K, which seems to be more common in the Mediterranean than in Britain. Nevertheless it is present there. I believe Thomas Jefferson was one. Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Reddick [mailto:rdreddick@charter.net] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:30 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com: In studying our growing R320 DNA project results, notice two "Haplotype" categories seem dominant for those of known Scot or Scot-Irish ancestry: "I" and "R1b1" There is also "R1b" and "R1b1c" represented and one new report indicating "K2." A couple of the project members have ordered the "SNP" analysis which confirmed "I" and R1b1." Questions: Are these the more common Haplos for Scotland? What does the SNP analysis report really tell us about our origins? What is the significance of matches to other surnames (most numerous seem to be several 37 markers exact matches to Bingham/Bigham/Bigum)? The genealogy DNA firms represented are FTDNA and EA (EthnoAncestry). Our project page also includes those with Germanic origins: <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx>http://www.fa mi lytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx Thanks, Richard D. Reddick ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429 ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

This is something Ken Nordtvedt and Doug McDonald have been looking at. Certainly the most famous branch of Norse R1a in Scotland is that of the descendents of Somerled, fore-father of Clan Donald. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: jimhalcrow [mailto:jimhalcrow@waitrose.com] Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 12:17 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? Jim Halcrow Jeo@aol.com wrote: > Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and > ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be > interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. > > James Orr, Chicago > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Linda, Welcome to the crowd of surprised "I" haplogroup Scots-Irish. Without looking at your father's Y-DNA, if he's I1c he's of Danish Viking descent in all likelihood. This I grouping can actually be a blessing if most others are R1b (Celtic) as it narrows your field of search considerably as it did with my Johnston(e)s. Good hunting, Cliff. Johnston "May the best you've ever seen, Be the worst you'll ever see;" from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay ----- Original Message ----- From: <FLFeff@aol.com> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] I was surprised to learn my Dad is Haplogroup "I" > > > Hello to All, > FamilyTreeDNA has surprised me a week early with some of my Dad's > Y-DNA > results. Knowing that my paternal line goes back to Dublin, Ireland in > the > 1600's, and before that in Scotland, and before that I believe from > Ireland, I > had expected to learn that his haplogroup would be R and possibly R1b1, > but > it's turned out to be "I". I have my Dad's FINLEY lineage traced back > into > medieval records, connecting we believe to: > Findlaech McRuaidhri (FINLEY ) of Moray (Scotland) 980 to 1020, father of > son - Macbeth Fionnladh b.c. 1005 Atholl, Perthshire, Scotland; > son - MacBeatha McFinlay b. 1045 Cromarty, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland; > d. > 1093 Cromarty, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland; md. 1079 Bethoca McBrad > daughter > of Andrew McBrad > son - Ruari (Rory) McFinlay b. 1080 Cromarty, Ross Cromarty, Scotland > son - Fergus McFinlay b. 1145 Aberdeenshire, Scotland > son - Eugenius McFinlay b./ 1184 Perthshire, Scotland > son - Fearchar McFinlay b. 1210 > son - Archibald Finlay b. 1248 Roushknot, Perthshire, Scotland > son - William Finlay b. 1300 Perthshire, Scotland > son - Andrew Finlay b. 1344 Perthshire, Scotland > son - John Finlay b. 1390 Perthshire, Scotland > son - John Finley b. 1418 Perthshire, Scotland > son - John Findley b. 1450 Coupar Angus, Perthshire, Scotland > son - Andrew Finley (Fyndlay) b.c. 1480/1483 of Perthshire, Scotland > son - James Finley b. Sept. 15, 1530 Cuper Angus, Balchristie, Fife, > Scotland; md. Elizabeth Warrender > son - John Finley b. June 8, 1579 St. Andrews, Newburn Parish, > Balchristie, > Fife, Scotland; md. Sarah Craigie > son - James Finley b. Sept. 9, 1631 Inchervie, St. Andrew’s, Fife, > Scotland; > md. Margaret Mackie > son - Alexander Finley b. 1667 Inchervie, Fife, Scotland; md. Catherine > Margaret Jennings > son - James Finley b. Dec. 4, 1687 Dublin, Ireland; md. Elizabeth > Patterson > son - James Finley (1687/8-1753) who emigrated to America from Ireland on > the good ship Eagle Wing and landed in New Castle, Del. on 22 May 1720. > About half of James G G Grandchildren emigrated to America. > James (1687/8-1753) first settled in Chester Co. PA > son - John Finley Sr. b. Dec. 18, 1706 Dublin, Ireland; md. Chester Co., > Pa. > to Thankful Doak > son - Thomas Finley b. Nov. 18, 1734 Chester, Del., Pa.; d. 1816 > Montgomery > Co, N.C.; md Mary Heavon ..... > > Family Tree DNA found no matches for the 25 marker test, and I'm waiting > on > the balance of the 37 markers. > I have downloaded the Y-DNA results to Ysearch and my ID is JYWUE. > Could some of you in the know please take a look? I would really > appreciate any > information these numbers might reveal. Am I correct in assuming that > being > in haplogroup "I" that is the same as saying my Dad is positive for M170 > and/or P19 and/or M258? I ask that because that's what I find on the > 2005 > Y-Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree (although the print is tiny and hard to > read). I > had visited one or more web sites in the past that gave some possible > descriptions for various markers, meaning M168, M89, M9 etc., but I can't > seem to > find my way back to these sites. Can anyone help me with that? When we > talk > haplogroup "I" what time period are we dealing with? When the results of > the > rest of the 37 markers come in, might it change the haplogroup? > Thank you in advance for any and all help, in understanding what these > numbers mean. > Sincerely, > Linda Fefferman > Ysearch ID is JYWUE > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

You'll have a little trouble googling the name as spelled... The correct spelling is Nordtveldt Haplogroup I Subclade Analysis <http://www.northwestanalysis.net/> by Ken Nordtvedt try it here... http://home.comcast.net/~libpjr1/haplogroupI.htm Regards John Armstrong I1a a Little SoWest of North corvettenutz@bellsouth.net wrote: >The I Haplogroup indicates a Norwegian, Danish or Scandinavian heritage, >there are several subdivisions of the I group. I1a is the most common. I >am an I1a of either the Norse or Ultra Norse group. > >My Haplogroup is not the same as the other members in my surname project, >which indicates either an adoption or out of wedlock birth. > >If you will google Ken Norveldt's website, there is a very good explanation >of the I group and it's subdivisions. > >Jim Lovelace > >-----Original Message----- >From: jimhalcrow [mailto:jimhalcrow@waitrose.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:17 AM >To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Re: R1a study > >Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly >via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other >R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? > >Jim Halcrow > >Jeo@aol.com wrote: > > > >>Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and >>ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It >> >> >would be > > >>interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. >> >>James Orr, Chicago >> >> >>==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >>AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: >> >> >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > >>============================== >>Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >>areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >>Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> >> > > >==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely >of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE >in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration >for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work >necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been >submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Hello to All, FamilyTreeDNA has surprised me a week early with some of my Dad's Y-DNA results. Knowing that my paternal line goes back to Dublin, Ireland in the 1600's, and before that in Scotland, and before that I believe from Ireland, I had expected to learn that his haplogroup would be R and possibly R1b1, but it's turned out to be "I". I have my Dad's FINLEY lineage traced back into medieval records, connecting we believe to: Findlaech McRuaidhri (FINLEY ) of Moray (Scotland) 980 to 1020, father of son - Macbeth Fionnladh b.c. 1005 Atholl, Perthshire, Scotland; son - MacBeatha McFinlay b. 1045 Cromarty, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland; d. 1093 Cromarty, Ross and Cromarty, Scotland; md. 1079 Bethoca McBrad daughter of Andrew McBrad son - Ruari (Rory) McFinlay b. 1080 Cromarty, Ross Cromarty, Scotland son - Fergus McFinlay b. 1145 Aberdeenshire, Scotland son - Eugenius McFinlay b./ 1184 Perthshire, Scotland son - Fearchar McFinlay b. 1210 son - Archibald Finlay b. 1248 Roushknot, Perthshire, Scotland son - William Finlay b. 1300 Perthshire, Scotland son - Andrew Finlay b. 1344 Perthshire, Scotland son - John Finlay b. 1390 Perthshire, Scotland son - John Finley b. 1418 Perthshire, Scotland son - John Findley b. 1450 Coupar Angus, Perthshire, Scotland son - Andrew Finley (Fyndlay) b.c. 1480/1483 of Perthshire, Scotland son - James Finley b. Sept. 15, 1530 Cuper Angus, Balchristie, Fife, Scotland; md. Elizabeth Warrender son - John Finley b. June 8, 1579 St. Andrews, Newburn Parish, Balchristie, Fife, Scotland; md. Sarah Craigie son - James Finley b. Sept. 9, 1631 Inchervie, St. Andrew’s, Fife, Scotland; md. Margaret Mackie son - Alexander Finley b. 1667 Inchervie, Fife, Scotland; md. Catherine Margaret Jennings son - James Finley b. Dec. 4, 1687 Dublin, Ireland; md. Elizabeth Patterson son - James Finley (1687/8-1753) who emigrated to America from Ireland on the good ship Eagle Wing and landed in New Castle, Del. on 22 May 1720. About half of James G G Grandchildren emigrated to America. James (1687/8-1753) first settled in Chester Co. PA son - John Finley Sr. b. Dec. 18, 1706 Dublin, Ireland; md. Chester Co., Pa. to Thankful Doak son - Thomas Finley b. Nov. 18, 1734 Chester, Del., Pa.; d. 1816 Montgomery Co, N.C.; md Mary Heavon ..... Family Tree DNA found no matches for the 25 marker test, and I'm waiting on the balance of the 37 markers. I have downloaded the Y-DNA results to Ysearch and my ID is JYWUE. Could some of you in the know please take a look? I would really appreciate any information these numbers might reveal. Am I correct in assuming that being in haplogroup "I" that is the same as saying my Dad is positive for M170 and/or P19 and/or M258? I ask that because that's what I find on the 2005 Y-Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree (although the print is tiny and hard to read). I had visited one or more web sites in the past that gave some possible descriptions for various markers, meaning M168, M89, M9 etc., but I can't seem to find my way back to these sites. Can anyone help me with that? When we talk haplogroup "I" what time period are we dealing with? When the results of the rest of the 37 markers come in, might it change the haplogroup? Thank you in advance for any and all help, in understanding what these numbers mean. Sincerely, Linda Fefferman Ysearch ID is JYWUE

Thanks, James. My ancestors came from West Norway to Orkney (possibly via Caithness) and then to Shetland. I would like to know whether other R1a groups came via Norway or are there several sections of R1as? Jim Halcrow Jeo@aol.com wrote: > Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and > ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be > interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. > > James Orr, Chicago > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Hi Kay E3b is not the most common haplotype in Scotland, but it is also certainly not "foreign" in the sense that it appears to have been in Britain for a very long time. I suspect it is more common in lowland areas than highland areas though. This would make sense because it seems to have entered Europe with the first farmers and potters from the Middle East. What is the surname? Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: N & K Chestnut [mailto:nkopportunity@gorge.net] Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 2:03 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Sorry folks, my Scotch-Irishman's descendant came up with Haplogroup E3b. Not what I expected either! Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Dear Richard The most common SNP-defined haplogroup in Scotland is R1b1c, which is a branch of R1b1, which is a branch of R1b, etc. The second most common is I1a, which is of course a branch of I. So the only ununusual news is the K, which seems to be more common in the Mediterranean than in Britain. Nevertheless it is present there. I believe Thomas Jefferson was one. Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Reddick [mailto:rdreddick@charter.net] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:30 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com: In studying our growing R320 DNA project results, notice two "Haplotype" categories seem dominant for those of known Scot or Scot-Irish ancestry: "I" and "R1b1" There is also "R1b" and "R1b1c" represented and one new report indicating "K2." A couple of the project members have ordered the "SNP" analysis which confirmed "I" and R1b1." Questions: Are these the more common Haplos for Scotland? What does the SNP analysis report really tell us about our origins? What is the significance of matches to other surnames (most numerous seem to be several 37 markers exact matches to Bingham/Bigham/Bigum)? The genealogy DNA firms represented are FTDNA and EA (EthnoAncestry). Our project page also includes those with Germanic origins: <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx>http://www.fa mi lytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx Thanks, Richard D. Reddick ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

Of the 20 Orrs who have posted Y-chromosome STR data on ysearch.org and ybase.org, 18 are R1a, and rather closely related to oneanother. It would be interesting to see how they fit in the background of other Scots R1a. James Orr, Chicago

Sorry folks, my Scotch-Irishman's descendant came up with Haplogroup E3b. Not what I expected either! Kay C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew and Inge To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" Dear Richard The most common SNP-defined haplogroup in Scotland is R1b1c, which is a branch of R1b1, which is a branch of R1b, etc. The second most common is I1a, which is of course a branch of I. So the only ununusual news is the K, which seems to be more common in the Mediterranean than in Britain. Nevertheless it is present there. I believe Thomas Jefferson was one. Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Reddick [mailto:rdreddick@charter.net] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:30 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com: In studying our growing R320 DNA project results, notice two "Haplotype" categories seem dominant for those of known Scot or Scot-Irish ancestry: "I" and "R1b1" There is also "R1b" and "R1b1c" represented and one new report indicating "K2." A couple of the project members have ordered the "SNP" analysis which confirmed "I" and R1b1." Questions: Are these the more common Haplos for Scotland? What does the SNP analysis report really tell us about our origins? What is the significance of matches to other surnames (most numerous seem to be several 37 markers exact matches to Bingham/Bigham/Bigum)? The genealogy DNA firms represented are FTDNA and EA (EthnoAncestry). Our project page also includes those with Germanic origins: <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx>http://www.fami lytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx Thanks, Richard D. Reddick ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

I agree with you. It would be good to see an analysis of R1a.s. Maybe those of us who do not have a Clan group could sign up to an R1a "Clan"? Jim Halcrow zgordo@webtv.net wrote: > R1a.any information on this group helpfull.? > > keep on-keeping on-never quit. Roger > http://community.webtv.net/zgordo/GORDOSGENEALOGY > >

JIm, Sorry, I did that all wrong There is a Halcrow surname study at Family Tree DNA.. http://www.familytreedna.com/surname.asp Regards John Armstrong A Little SoWest of North

Jim, there is a Halcrow surname study going on at Family Tree DNA check it out at jimhalcrow@waitrose.com Regards John Armstrong A little SoWest of North confido@ix.netcom.com wrote: >Hello Jim: > >Are you CERTAIN you have no "clan group"? Have you checked all of your surnames to find out? If not, you may be surprised. Send me a list, off list, and I will do a **quick** check for you. [hoping this is not a list of 200 surnames! lol] > >Yours Aye, > >Lauren > >Lauren M. Boyd, FSA Scot >Scot DNA List Admin > >aka >Chair, Genealogical Committee, Genealogist, Clan Stewart in America, Inc. >President, Scottish Information Society >Northern California Convenor, House of Boyd Society, Inc [& Prez] >clan tent volunteer for 11 seasons, working over 120 Scottish games events to date >lecturer, Scottish Genealogy > >-----Original Message----- > > >>From: jimhalcrow <jimhalcrow@waitrose.com> >>Sent: Mar 28, 2006 2:37 AM >>To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] cladogram >> >>I agree with you. It would be good to see an analysis of R1a.s. >> >>Maybe those of us who do not have a Clan group could sign up to an R1a >>"Clan"? >> >>Jim Halcrow >> >> > > >==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >Have questions about the lab? About privacy? About the process? >Visit the FAQ page: >http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html >Want to join the project? Visit: http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > >

Hello Jim: Are you CERTAIN you have no "clan group"? Have you checked all of your surnames to find out? If not, you may be surprised. Send me a list, off list, and I will do a **quick** check for you. [hoping this is not a list of 200 surnames! lol] Yours Aye, Lauren Lauren M. Boyd, FSA Scot Scot DNA List Admin aka Chair, Genealogical Committee, Genealogist, Clan Stewart in America, Inc. President, Scottish Information Society Northern California Convenor, House of Boyd Society, Inc [& Prez] clan tent volunteer for 11 seasons, working over 120 Scottish games events to date lecturer, Scottish Genealogy -----Original Message----- >From: jimhalcrow <jimhalcrow@waitrose.com> >Sent: Mar 28, 2006 2:37 AM >To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] cladogram > >I agree with you. It would be good to see an analysis of R1a.s. > >Maybe those of us who do not have a Clan group could sign up to an R1a >"Clan"? > >Jim Halcrow

Dear Richard The most common SNP-defined haplogroup in Scotland is R1b1c, which is a branch of R1b1, which is a branch of R1b, etc. The second most common is I1a, which is of course a branch of I. So the only ununusual news is the K, which seems to be more common in the Mediterranean than in Britain. Nevertheless it is present there. I believe Thomas Jefferson was one. Best Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: R. D. Reddick [mailto:rdreddick@charter.net] Sent: Monday, 27 March 2006 9:30 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Meaning of "Haplotype" and Haplogroup" SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com: In studying our growing R320 DNA project results, notice two "Haplotype" categories seem dominant for those of known Scot or Scot-Irish ancestry: "I" and "R1b1" There is also "R1b" and "R1b1c" represented and one new report indicating "K2." A couple of the project members have ordered the "SNP" analysis which confirmed "I" and R1b1." Questions: Are these the more common Haplos for Scotland? What does the SNP analysis report really tell us about our origins? What is the significance of matches to other surnames (most numerous seem to be several 37 markers exact matches to Bingham/Bigham/Bigum)? The genealogy DNA firms represented are FTDNA and EA (EthnoAncestry). Our project page also includes those with Germanic origins: <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx>http://www.fami lytreedna.com/public/Reddick-r320/index.aspx Thanks, Richard D. Reddick ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

> One interesting thing about the Fluxus program are the alternate paths to a > given participant which contain two identical mutations. These appear to me to > be parallel mutations. I posted this on the Genealogy-DNA mailing list and > Ann Turner said she would take a look at my plots, so I sent her the *.fdi > plots. Evidently she couldn't read them, because she hasn't responded. I'll > try > again with the *.gif files. > > Bruce Baird Bruce, Your use of the word 'alternate' is much better than 'parallel' mutations. What you've got is the Fluxus program not able to determine the path which was actually taken. If you have two mutations between point A and point B, there's no way to determine which took place first. David M

Thanks David. One problem is that the Modal in my case is actually two individuals with DYS461/449 = 13/29. If either individual #1 or #2 were the real modal, there would still have to be a mutation to "my modal," and this mutation would duplicate one of the other mutations. Bruce In a message dated 3/27/2006 5:48:34 PM Central Standard Time, dmcduke@comcast.net writes: Bruce, One thing that may be (probably?) throwing you is thinking of the Modal as THE ancestral haplotype. It could be...it is probably very close in many/most cases when you have a large sampling. But, you're never sure there's not an unintended bias such as the lines carrying the ancestral value for a particular marker not being as prolific. From your description, I got the following values: Individual DYS461 DYS449 MODAL 13 29 Indv #1 12 29 Indv #2 13 28 Indv #3 12 28 If, in the above example, the Ancestral haplotype was in actuality DYS461/449 = 13/28 or 12/29 your need for a parallel mutation goes away. If 13/28, individual #2's line would still be carrying the ancestral haplotype. A single mutation at DYS461 would account for individual #3 and a single mutation at DYS449 would account for individual #1. Both would be one step from the ancestral line. With the 12/29 scenario, individual #1 would be carrying the ancestral haplotype. A mutation at DYS449 takes you to individual #3 and then a mutation at DYS461 could take you to individual #2. Individual 3 would be 1 step from the ancestral line while #2 would be 2 steps away. I tend to like the simplest answers. While parallel mutations can and I'm sure do take place, absent a paper trail, I would be inclined to go with one of the two modal values not being ancestral. David M