In a message dated 5/28/2006 2:34:23 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nelda_percival@hotmail.com writes: Hi FLFeff@aol.com, I can not correspond with you off list as aol bounces hotmail accounts.. Yes it is in Ysearch ID P333U and I went and compared them..no match at all Nelda Hi Nelda, I realize that your GILPIN Ysearch P333U and my FINLEY ySearch JYWUE will not match. You of the R Haplogroup and myself of the I Haplogroup. But I did share with you my descent from ERC down to Kenneth MacAlpin down to Dovada who married my direct FINLEY ancestor Findlaech McRuaidhri (Finlay / Finley) who died 1020; (he married Dovada / Donada; and they had a son Macbeth). My thinking was perhaps you might notice and compare your Gilpin's DNA results to those of the DUFF surname (since Kenneth MacAlpin had a fourth great grandson named BODHE, Chief of Clan Duff ). Just another clue as to possible surname lineages from Kenneth MacAlpin. I found seven including yours that make for interesting comparisons. You all share DYS 426 and 388 both with values of 12 (and I believe that possibly identifies you as of the R Haplogroup. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong). And although you might have some genetic distance, I can tell you that at least on the Finley line after Macbeth's death the surname was outlawed (so others were choosen). Example: MACBETH's death ended a dynasty which began with the earliest foundations of Ireland and Scotland. At the time of his death, his children were young, so the Clan FIONNLAGH placed his stepson, LULACH, on the throne. However, he reigned only 6 months, being defeated and slain at Eske in Strathbogie by the Saxon invaders and the rebellious adherents of Malcolm CANMORE. After LULACH, no other member of the Clan FIONNLAGH has been on the throne of Scotland to the present day. Members of the clan became hunted outlaws, long before religious persecution drove them from the British Isles. Because of this the Clan FIONNLAGH took on the name of the Clan FARQUHARSON, so named because of the Farquhar SHAW of Rothiemurchus. WOOD and FRANCE state: "In 1236 in the Braes of Mar at the head of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, there was a certain chief named FEARCHAR, son of FARQUHAR, who was the fourth son of Shaw DUBH of Rothiemurchus, who was head of a powerful clan known in the Highlands as Clan FIONNLAGH, a sept of the great confederation, Clan CHATTAN, which held large possessions which were acquired by marriage with the heiress of Invercauld and from this FEARCHAR. Dovada’s lineage goes back to Kenneth MacAlpin aka Kenneth I, King of Alba. It was his daughter Mael Muire who married Aed Findliath macNeill Caille, who was the 10th great grandson of Naill of the Nine Hostages. On my Finley lineage we know they came to Scotland originally from Ireland...then back to Ireland (Dublin 1600's) then to America 1720. When I asked my Dad to allow me to have his Y-chromosome DNA tested I was hoping we might make a connection to Naill of the Nine Hostages, when instead we proved we are not. And yet our direct ancestor Kenneth MacAlpin did have a daughter who married into the Naill line. Good luck to you in your search..... Warmly, Linda Finley Rogers-Fefferman Cathedral City, Calif. FLFeff@aol.com I'm an Organ Donor, are You? Member of _The FAIR Foundation_ (http://www.fairfoundation.org/Board/board.htm) _http://www.fairfoundation.org_ (http://www.fairfoundation.org/) For the Fair allocation of funds for disease research Co-owner/Group Moderator of _HeartTransplant@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:HeartTransplant@yahoogroups.com) Need a lung transplant Assistant manager: _HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness@groups.msn.com_ (mailto:HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness@groups.msn.com) http://groups.msn.com/HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness/_whatsnew.msnw Member: Presumed Consent Foundation - _http://www.presumedconsent.org/_ (http://www.presumedconsent.org/) Y-DNA Haplogroup I1b2* (of the A type, or I1b2*-A) (DYS455=10, 454=12) DYS448=19 subcluster ySearch.org ID# JYWUE Ybase.org ID# KLWG8 Relative Genetics ID# Z087384 FamilyTreeDNA ID# 52850 (DNA of my father Edward A. FINLEY) Finley Surname Project: _http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html_ (http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html) Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2006 per International Organization of Genetic Genealogists Archaeological "A(dam)" A - M91 to BR - SRY10831.1 (SRY1532), M42, M94, M139, M299 (55,000 years ago N.E. Africa) CR - M168 (50,000 years ago), M294, P9 (common Ancestor of all people who migrated out of Africa, mutation occurred 31-55,000 ago) F- M89 (45,000 years ago), P14, M213) to IJ - S2, S22 (second wave out of Africa to Middle East 45,000 years ago) I - M170 (22,000 years ago) M258, P19 (DYS 388 = 13) I1 - P38 (DYS 426 = 11) I1b - S31 to I1b2 - S23, S30, S32, S33 to I1b2* - S23+, M223-, S24- (old I1b2* x cluster / I1x ) ( * =DYS 455 = 10*, DYS 454 = 12*) Genealogist since 1978: Tracing over 300 surnames including: Abbott,Ambrasius,Arndale,Barrier,Barringer,Bruen,Buchanan,Burchfield,Burr,Campbell,Canaday,Cha mbers,Chapman,Craigie,Creath,Cuthbert,D'Allain

Hello Jim, I've already written to Nelda off-list, but thought I would share the following: I descend from Erc down to Macbeth’s mother Donada/Dovada, this through my maiden name FINLEY. ERC MacEochaid, Ruled in Dalriada Ireland 430 A.D. father of 1 Fergus Mor McErc, Ruled from 498 to 501 . father of 2 Domangart .. father of 3 Gabhran (King of Scots) ... 4 Aidan or Aedan MACGABRAN (King of Scots) (d. 608) .... during the reign of King Aedan mac Gabhrain. Aedan, the great grandson of Fergus, was crowned overking of Dalriada in 573, by no less a person than St Columba - a huge PR triumph for Aedan, giving his reign an extra symbolism that no pretender could hope to match, and also perhaps, sending out a signal to the neighbouring kingdoms that he had God, and certainly the head of the Celtic Church, on his side. 5 Eochaid Buide (King of Scots) ..... 6 Domnall or Donald BRECC (King of Scots) ...... 7 Domangart II (King of Scots) ....... 8 Eochaidh II (d. 696) (King of Scots) ........ 9 Eochaidh III (King of Scots) ........ 10 Aed Find (King of Scots) ......... 11 Eochaid (d. 781)(King of Scots) .......... 12 Alpin (King of Scots) ........... 13 Kenneth I McALPIN (b. 810; d. 860) - King of Albany 841-849 united Albany (Scotland)(Picts & Scots) into one kingdom. ............ 14 Constantine I, King of Albany 862 - 877 killed 877 ............. 15 Domhnull II (DONALD II), King of Albany 889 - 900 killed 900 .............. 16 MALCOLM I MacDonald, King of Albany b. abt. 880 killed 954 ............... 17 DUBHE (DUFF), King of Albany killed 967 ................ 18 KENNETH III King of Albany killed, Chief of Clan Duff, Killed 1005 ................. 19 BODHE, Chief of Clan Duff .................. 20 Gruoch (Lady MACBETH (Macbeth's wife)), She was a descendant of King Kenneth III (ruled 997-1005). Macbeth was killed in battle by Malcolm III, son of Duncan, with assistance from the English. Gruoch was Heiress of Clan Duff, granter of lands in Fife (with her husband Macbeth) .... she md. (1) +Gillacomgain ..................... 21 LULACH the Fool .................... She md. (2)+Macbeth Fionnladh ..................... (son of Findlaech McRuaidhri (FINLEY)) 21 First son ..................... 21 Macbeatha MCFINLAY (b. 1060 in Cromarty ; d. 1093) ............... Findlaech McRuaidhri FINLEY (d. 1020) Earl of Moray Ruled over western Scotland, was slain in 1020 to make MALCOLM II the sole king. ..................... same as McRuaidhri (Findlaech) Fionnladh (or McRuaidhri Finlegh or Finley Clan Fionnladh) b.c. 980 Scotland; d. 1020; McRuaidhri Finley Earl Moray, Chief the Clan Fionnladh, Ruled over western Scotland, was murdered in 1020 to make MALCOLM II the sole king. md. c. 1005 Donada Elmer CROCKETT, states the following: "In the year 1009, Momaar FINLEIGH or FINLEY of Moray, father of MACBETH, was the overlord of the tributary of the Manor of Morey or Moray." Donada/Dovada’s lineage goes back to Kenneth MacAlpin aka Kenneth I, King of Alba. It was his daughter Mael Muire who married Aed Findliath macNeill Caille, who was the 10th great grandson of Naill of the Nine Hostages. Findlaech McRuaidhri (FINLEY)) md. Donada/Dovada c. 1005 and were the parents of Macbeth Fionnladh b.c. 1005 Atholl, Perthshire, Scotland, who md. Gruoch (as her second husband). Warmly, Linda Finley Rogers-Fefferman Cathedral City, Calif. FLFeff@aol.com I'm an Organ Donor, are You? Member of _The FAIR Foundation_ (http://www.fairfoundation.org/Board/board.htm) _http://www.fairfoundation.org_ (http://www.fairfoundation.org/) For the Fair allocation of funds for disease research Co-owner/Group Moderator of _HeartTransplant@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:HeartTransplant@yahoogroups.com) Need a lung transplant Assistant manager: _HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness@groups.msn.com_ (mailto:HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness@groups.msn.com) http://groups.msn.com/HeartTransplantOrganDonationAwareness/_whatsnew.msnw Member: Presumed Consent Foundation - _http://www.presumedconsent.org/_ (http://www.presumedconsent.org/) Y-DNA Haplogroup I1b2* (of the A type, or I1b2*-A) (DYS455=10, 454=12) DYS448=19 subcluster ySearch.org ID# JYWUE Ybase.org ID# KLWG8 Relative Genetics ID# Z087384 FamilyTreeDNA ID# 52850 (DNA of my father Edward A. FINLEY) Finley Surname Project: _http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html_ (http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html) Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2006 per International Organization of Genetic Genealogists Archaeological "A(dam)" A - M91 to BR - SRY10831.1 (SRY1532), M42, M94, M139, M299 (55,000 years ago N.E. Africa) CR - M168 (50,000 years ago), M294, P9 (common Ancestor of all people who migrated out of Africa, mutation occurred 31-55,000 ago) F- M89 (45,000 years ago), P14, M213) to IJ - S2, S22 (second wave out of Africa to Middle East 45,000 years ago) I - M170 (22,000 years ago) M258, P19 (DYS 388 = 13) I1 - P38 (DYS 426 = 11) I1b - S31 to I1b2 - S23, S30, S32, S33 to I1b2* - S23+, M223-, S24- (old I1b2* x cluster / I1x ) ( * =DYS 455 = 10*, DYS 454 = 12*) Genealogist since 1978: Tracing over 300 surnames including: Abbott,Ambrasius,Arndale,Barrier,Barringer,Bruen,Buchanan,Burchfield,Burr, Campbell,Canaday,Chambers,Chapman,Craigie,Creath,Cuthbert,D'Allain..... In a message dated 5/28/2006 2:11:21 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jimgordo1@aol.com writes: According to "The Clans, Septs & Regiments of the Scottish Highlands" by Frank Adam, the MacAlpin(e) name has only one variant - Alpin. It also states that not only are they now landless; but that the family of their chief has been lost sight of." It is conceivable that Gipin could be a corruption of MacAlpin; but it would be a very long stertch of the imagination to come up with that equation. Cheers, Jim Hi, I am trying to find a McAlpin, McAlpine/ MacAlpine Mac Alpin to compare some Gilpins to. Do you actually have any in your project and if so are they listed with y-search? I have been in contact with the Clan MacAlpine and they suggested that some Gilpins may in actuallity be name changes from MacAlpine.. Thanks Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Jimmy: I believe Nelda's question was to whether or not the Scot DNA Project has McAlpin/MacAlpines in it. As it is a holiday weekend in the good ol' US of A, I am unsure when John may respond. Marsha may respond if she is available. Nelda -- you can gain access to the passworded site and the database as last filed there by contacting John or Charlotte. Please see http://scottishdna.org/ for more details. Yours Aye, Lauren Scot DNA List Admin Scot DNA Project Participant

According to "The Clans, Septs & Regiments of the Scottish Highlands" by Frank Adam, the MacAlpin(e) name has only one variant - Alpin. It also states that not only are they now landless; but that the family of their chief has been lost sight of." It is conceivable that Gipin could be a corruption of MacAlpin; but it would be a very long stertch of the imagination to come up with that equation. Cheers, Jim Hi, I am trying to find a McAlpin, McAlpine/ MacAlpine Mac Alpin to compare some Gilpins to. Do you actually have any in your project and if so are they listed with y-search? I have been in contact with the Clan MacAlpine and they suggested that some Gilpins may in actuallity be name changes from MacAlpine.. Thanks Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. These questions can be responded to off list. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi Lauren, That is exactly my question. I have four tested Gilpins 3 of which are at ysearch.com, 2 are related, but the third and fouth are not related. The fourth was tested at DNAFP and does not come close to any of them when they finish his panels 2 and 3 I'll post him to ysearch too... I was wondering if your group had a Clan McAlpine person who was tested. I have searched ysearch and FTDNA and found none..only two groups even mention McAlpine... Yours was one.. Thank you Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi, The reason I am searching for Clan MacAlpine males to compare with is that I was in correspondence with the the President of the Clan and he said yes some MacAlpines actually had become Gilpins.. Otherwords I wouldn't waist anyone's time with this.. Thanks Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi FLFeff@aol.com, I can not correspond with you off list as aol bounces hotmail accounts.. Yes it is in Ysearch ID P333U and I went and compared them..no match at all Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi Jim, I also looked for a surname project for them.. that's how I ended up here. The name is in your descriptions.. I'm not so interested in the Clan McAlpine as I am interested in finding out where the Gilpins descend from. The unproven but taken as fact even by the most exact researchers is the story that the deGylpin's of Kentmere Hall, Kendal, Westmoreland, England, came with William I and are of Norman descent, and that all descends are from this line. Now, we all know there is a next to zerro chance of this plus... in just the four Gilpins tested there are definately three different lineages. In the 1500's (doing this from memory) a heroldic advisory to the King said all Gilpins were Scotts...?? again not possible.. So I have been trying to find a yDNA connection to any of them.. Since the advisor suggested Scotts I have tried to find what Clans had Gilpins .. the only one so far is Mac Alpine. So the need for comparisons Thanks Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Hi, I am trying to find a McAlpin, McAlpine/ MacAlpine Mac Alpin to compare some Gilpins to. Do you actually have any in your project and if so are they listed with y-search? I have been in contact with the Clan MacAlpine and they suggested that some Gilpins may in actuallity be name changes from MacAlpine.. Thanks Nelda Nelda's websites - http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Gilpin DNA Project member

Dear Kay: Yes, We'd love to have your results in the project. I noted that you already have some results. Are those results in the Family Tree surname projects? The Scottish Clans project at Family Tree is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.htm If you are already a project member at some other surname or Clan project then you can merely click on the "request to join" on the upper left hand corner and your DNA results will be added to this project. You can also go to : www.brigadoon.net/scottishdna.html and www.scottishdna.net for an overview of the other options for you to gather information on the interpretation of results. Best Regards John A Hansen www.brigadoon.net www.beintouch.com -----Original Message----- From: N & K Chestnut [mailto:nkopportunity@gorge.net] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 5:46 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Electric Scotlkand Newsletter My Scotch-Irish ancestor was born in northern Ireland probably Co. Derry before 1800 m. Martha EAKIN dau. of John EAKIN came to the States and lived out the rest of his life in Butler & Venango Counties of PA. His yDNA descendant's DNA sample is in the Northeast U.S. SMITH project. Surname SMITH. I have no idea what clan his ancestors might have been in. Would this yDNA & SMITH be an acceptable candidate for your project? Kay Chestnut - contact person for Robert SMITH ----- Original Message ----- From: John A Hansen To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:39 AM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Electric Scotlkand Newsletter Dear All: The newsletter from Alastair McIntyre is out this week with the Scottish Clans DNA project update listed. Some interesting data on MacGregor and the Orkney's in this issue. ( Note the underscore in the url and the new location of the column on his web site directory). Please let me know if you would like your surname or Clan DNA study listed on the Electric Scotland web site. The Scottish Clans project at Family Tree is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.htm If you are already a project member at some other surname or Clan project then you can merely click on the "request to join" on the upper left hand corner and your DNA results will be added to this project. Best Regards John A Hansen jahansen@brigadoon.net www.brigadoon.net/scottishdna www.beintouch.com ______________________________

John, We are only testing those stretches of DNA that show variation or differences. We have LONG sequences of DNA that are identical, but its the small variations that allow us to work out relationshships and ancestry, so those are the only pieces of DNA that we test. Within our DNA code of three billion "letters", only one in a million "letters" differ from the next person. Even compared to a person of Bushman ancestry, we still share 999,999 DNA "letters" out of 1,000,000. It's a difficult concept to grasp sometimes. Elena McComas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shankland(Train)" <Shankland@bellsouth.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:46 PM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA >I guess I am missing something. > > I understand the genetic concept of a DNA Adam but I don't understand how > it > relates to the test we are taking. > > I have a tester in my group with the same last name that is 11 markers of > in > 25. It is hard to imagine that a Bushman would be closer than that. > > Are we talking apples and oranges here? > > Can I get an example somewhere of what a Bushman's 25 marker test might > look > like? > >>FYI: >>Our DNA is 99.9% identical to all other human beings on Earth. Therefore, >>we only have a 0.1% difference in DNA between any of us, which accounts >>for > > > Given the example above it seems that in this case it is 50% different. > > John > > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

My Scotch-Irish ancestor was born in northern Ireland probably Co. Derry before 1800 m. Martha EAKIN dau. of John EAKIN came to the States and lived out the rest of his life in Butler & Venango Counties of PA. His yDNA descendant's DNA sample is in the Northeast U.S. SMITH project. Surname SMITH. I have no idea what clan his ancestors might have been in. Would this yDNA & SMITH be an acceptable candidate for your project? Kay Chestnut - contact person for Robert SMITH ----- Original Message ----- From: John A Hansen To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:39 AM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Electric Scotlkand Newsletter Dear All: The newsletter from Alastair McIntyre is out this week with the Scottish Clans DNA project update listed. Some interesting data on MacGregor and the Orkney's in this issue. ( Note the underscore in the url and the new location of the column on his web site directory). Please let me know if you would like your surname or Clan DNA study listed on the Electric Scotland web site. The Scottish Clans project at Family Tree is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.html If you are already a project member at some other surname or Clan project then you can merely click on the "request to join" on the upper left hand corner and your DNA results will be added to this project. Best Regards John A Hansen jahansen@brigadoon.net www.brigadoon.net/scottishdna www.beintouch.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Electric Scotland Weekly Newsletter -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's your Electric Scotland newsletter meaning the weekend is nearly here :-) You can view what's new this week on Electric Scotland at http://www.electricscotland.com/update.html Scottish Clans DNA Project ---------------------------------------- Got in an update which you can read at http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dna_projectndx.htm ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

I pasted the URL and got a page does not exist message. Researching Connors, OConnor, Histon, Kennealy, Sullivan in Limerick and OConnor, Heffernan, Foley, Palmer, deConde, Sugrue, Shackrow, Griffin, Shea, Shay and Keating in Kerry. Conor, OConnor Roscomon and Armstrong Scotland

Dear All: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.html does not open but http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dna_projectndx.htm Note that htm vs html is the key. Thanks to John for noting this and letting me know. Best Regards John A Hansen ----- Original Message ----- From: JohnPcnnrs@aol.com To: jahansen@brigadoon.net Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Electric Scotlkand Newsletter The Scottish Clans project at Family Tree is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.html This is the URL I was referring to in my email. Researching Connors, OConnor, Histon, Kennealy, Sullivan in Limerick and OConnor, Heffernan, Foley, Palmer, deConde, Sugrue, Shackrow, Griffin, Shea, Shay and Keating in Kerry. Conor, OConnor Roscomon. Armstrong Scotland

John: I just tried: http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dna_projectndx.htm and it came up OK. Were you trying the newsletter or the update web url? What url did you have? Please copy and send to me and I'll try it as well. John ----- Original Message ----- From: <JohnPcnnrs@aol.com> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Electric Scotlkand Newsletter >I pasted the URL and got a page does not exist message. > > Researching Connors, OConnor, Histon, Kennealy, Sullivan in Limerick and > OConnor, Heffernan, Foley, Palmer, deConde, Sugrue, Shackrow, Griffin, > Shea, > Shay and Keating in Kerry. Conor, OConnor Roscomon and Armstrong > Scotland > >

Dear All: The newsletter from Alastair McIntyre is out this week with the Scottish Clans DNA project update listed. Some interesting data on MacGregor and the Orkney's in this issue. ( Note the underscore in the url and the new location of the column on his web site directory). Please let me know if you would like your surname or Clan DNA study listed on the Electric Scotland web site. The Scottish Clans project at Family Tree is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Scottishdna.html If you are already a project member at some other surname or Clan project then you can merely click on the "request to join" on the upper left hand corner and your DNA results will be added to this project. Best Regards John A Hansen jahansen@brigadoon.net www.brigadoon.net/scottishdna www.beintouch.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Electric Scotland Weekly Newsletter -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's your Electric Scotland newsletter meaning the weekend is nearly here :-) You can view what's new this week on Electric Scotland at http://www.electricscotland.com/update.html Scottish Clans DNA Project ---------------------------------------- Got in an update which you can read at http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/dna_projectndx.htm

Hello: I am looking for a male direct descendant of Edmund Scott of Waterbury Conn. in hopes of solving a long standing genealogy brick wall. There was a Abel Scott in that family who married who married Lois Clark ca 1750, who may be the father of my earliest proven ancestor, but I have never been able to find any documentation to verify it. Edward Scott

Try googling for articles on Y haplotype A if you are searching for the most distant from European haplotypes. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Shankland(Train) [mailto:Shankland@bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 10:46 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA I guess I am missing something. I understand the genetic concept of a DNA Adam but I don't understand how it relates to the test we are taking. I have a tester in my group with the same last name that is 11 markers of in 25. It is hard to imagine that a Bushman would be closer than that. Are we talking apples and oranges here? Can I get an example somewhere of what a Bushman's 25 marker test might look like? >FYI: >Our DNA is 99.9% identical to all other human beings on Earth. Therefore, >we only have a 0.1% difference in DNA between any of us, which accounts for Given the example above it seems that in this case it is 50% different. John ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Hi Steve By "each of your genetic distances" do you mean each single step mutation between one person and another? If so then 250-500 generations sounds like a lot? In any case it depends how many markers you are watching. One change in one particular marker is very unlikely on any particular generation, but one change in 37 markers is not so strange. Two brothers can be different. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Steve St. Clair [mailto:steve@planetcentral.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 11:11 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA Hi John, Think of it this way. For each of your "genetic distances" you're between 250 and 500 generations away from a common ancestor with that person.

Hi William You should tell me where I can see your results. Are they up-loaded to ysearch? Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: William Campbell [mailto:alpha@allpointsrisk.com] Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 8:17 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA Hi Andrew: You appear to be very knowledgeable. I signed up for the Surname and Clan project and asked my Father as the oldest living male in the family line to represent the family. We received a lot of data but it appears that there is only one person in the data with the same last name Campbell. We went for the 37 marker test. I was hoping for more clear data. We knew that our Great Great GrandMother and Great Great GrandFather were reported to be second or third cousins and reported to have the same last name Campbell. They were born in Glasgow Scotland and married about the mid 1800s and immigrated to Canada and finally down to America. I was afraid this cousin situation could have confused the pool but I certainly expected to have more Campbell ast names than we have found thus far. We see that we received data from 12 marker, possibly 25 marker and a number of mutations 1-4, but we can't make heads of tails out of what it is supposed to be telling us. Would you be able to take a! look at the data and give me a child's story book version of what the data means?:) Thanks William "Bill" Campbell ---------------------------------------- From: "Andrew and Inge" <andrew.en.inge@skynet.be> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:47 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA Hi Wayne 1. Humans are closer to each other genetically than they are to chimpanzees. In fact humans are closer to each other genetically than chimpanzees are to each other, presumably implying that we descend from a quite small population of ancestors in relatively recent millenia. 2. I think your haplotype is R1b and quite close to the so called West Atlantic Modal Haplotype (WAMH) which is the typical Y haplotype of most West European men? If so then the matches you show are not particularly close and could suggest quite ancient connections. The estimates of most common recent ancestor can go very wrong for people in this situaiton because you have so many people with this haplotype walking around that it becomes very likely that several different branches will mutate in the SAME direction, and thus appear more related than they are. Still, there might be a real link between some of these families, and testing more markers might make this more convincing. Regards Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Howard Wayne Roberts [mailto:wayne@connectfree.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, 6 April 2006 6:47 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA But doesn't Chimpanzees have DNA that's 99% similar to that of humans? So does that make Adam a Chimpanzee, and do all primates descended from him? Couldn't it be that you need to go further back again to find Adam! This would suggest that it may have been rather unfair to cast him out of the garden of Eden, when he may not have had the cognitive thought process to handle the situation. I know it's a bit off subject, but it does seem that our DNA is quite similar between haplotypes, so much so that I am having problems confirming the home of my paternal Ancestor. The majority of surname matches strongly suggest Scotland , and I have close matches with Robertsons and Reids, but at the time of writing the divergence suggests about 700 years ago, and my family were in Gloucestershire in the 1530's! What confuses me is the growing number of continental surnames (although a number are American) whom I could not possibly share a common ancestor within the last 1000 years, unless through adoption and the like, and I think that's unlikely. This would seem to undermine the validity of my matches to variant surnames. My DNA markers between a Robertson and a Reid at 37 markers can be found here:- http://www.ystradmynach.org.uk/dna Does anybody else find themselves in the same situation? Best wishes, Wayne CJMax wrote: > Hmmm, I can just imagine the uproar if and when they discover that > there was someone else besides Adam... > > Cliff. Johnston > "May the best you've ever seen, > Be the worst you'll ever see;" > from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew and Inge" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 5:26 PM > Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA > > >> Basic answers: >> >> 1. Nearly all of it. >> >> 2. Everyone is related to "Adam" because Y DNA Adam is *defined* as >> the last >> common paternal ancestor of all men. More interesting is the path >> between >> this person and you. >> >> Regards >> Andrew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Shankland(Train) [mailto:Shankland@bellsouth.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2006 1:56 PM >> To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Deep DNA >> >> >> >> >> I wonder if someone in this group could answer a generic question for >> me. >> >> What part of my DNA is the same as the Bushman? >> >> What I am confused about is the Geo project required a 12 marker test >> and >> somehow from these 12 markers they can see that I am related to "ADAM"? >> >> Thanks >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >> All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ >> Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting >> anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> >> >> >> ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >> Have questions about the lab? About privacy? About the process? >> Visit the FAQ page: >> http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html >> Want to join the project? Visit: >> http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G >> >> ============================== >> Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Subscription and posting to the Scot-DNA list does not necessarily > indicate the poster is a participant in any DNA project. This list > is also for those interested in the subject, not just participating > in a project. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== DNA Results are also being posted on the web site. Email to dnaclans@brigadoon.net if you want to join the web site. For privacy reasons, this is a closed web site. Want to join the Project? Visit: http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Subscription and posting to the Scot-DNA list does not necessarily indicate the poster is a participant in any DNA project. This list is also for those interested in the subject, not just participating in a project. ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx