I imagine a few chiefs might be a bit wary. It doesn't really matter to me if my DNA isn't what it should be but it could be embarrassing for a clan chief! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dmcduke@comcast.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > Yes, Clan MacMillan for one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tei A. Gordon" <tagordon@hotmail.com> > To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:31 AM > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > > > > Just curious whether there are any Clan Chiefs represented in any of our > > DNA > > projects? > > > > > > > > Tei A. Gordon > > > > Administrator > > > > The Gordon DNA Project > > > > www.TheGordonDNAproject.com <http://www.thegordondnaproject.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > > > ============================== > > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > > New content added every business day. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages > for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. > These questions can be responded to off list. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Hello Bob, Tei and Everyone, I visited your Forbes Project site and noticed that most of your participants are Haplogroup R1b, with a few Haplogroup I. I had my father's y-DNA 37 markers tested at FTDNA and he is Haplogroup I1b2*. I'm responding to you and to Tei Gordon's question about any Clan Chief's DNA results. My direct paternal lineage is that of the FINLEY's, which go back to and beyond Macbeth. By way of example: _http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cafamilies/finley/ancient-rts.html_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cafamilies/finley/ancient-rts.html) "...There are _several genealogies_ (#sources) which trace the Finley line back to _Macbeth_ (macbeth.html) (1005-1057). The ruling family from _Macbeth_ (macbeth-rts.html) back to _Erc (430)_ (#erc) has been documented by historians in many places. Erc was the last ruler in Ireland before the Scots moved to Scotland...It obviously gets less accurate the further back you go since it is based on myth. According to _The Milesian Legends_ (http://members.aol.com/lochlan2/legends.htm) the Scots originated in _Scythia_ (http://www.geocities.com/dtmcbride/hist/world/scythia.html) , an area between the Black and Caspian Sea in what is now Southern Russia, (2,400+ BC - 1,800 BC) and came to Scotland via Galicia (Spain) (1,800 BC - 1,700 BC) and Ireland (1,700 BC - 500 AD)...." Clan Finley was outlawed after Macbeth's death. They took the name Farquharson and did not emerge from obscurity as a clan until 1236 when Archibald distinguished himself at the battle Largs. Warmly, Linda Finley Rogers-Fefferman Cathedral City, Calif. FLFeff@aol.com Y-DNA Haplogroup I1b2* (of the A type, or I1b2*-A) (DYS455=10, 454=12) DYS448=19 subcluster ySearch.org ID# JYWUE Ybase.org ID# KLWG8 Relative Genetics ID# Z087384 FamilyTreeDNA ID# 52850 (FINLEY) Finley Surname Project: _http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html_ (http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/f/findley/pats.html) Y-DNA Haplogroup Tree 2006 per International Organization of Genetic Genealogists Archaeological "A(dam)" A - M91 to BR - SRY10831.1 (SRY1532), M42, M94, M139, M299 (55,000 years ago N.E. Africa) CR - M168 (50,000 years ago), M294, P9 (common Ancestor of all people who migrated out of Africa, mutation occurred 31-55,000 years ago) F- M89 (45,000 years ago), P14, M213) IJ - S2, S22 (?second wave out of Africa to Middle East 45,000 yrs ago) I - M170 (22,000 years ago) M258,P19(DYS 388=13) Europe/Scandinavia 12K yrs ago I1 - P38 (DYS 426 = 11) (P38 equivalent with, M170, M258, P19) I1b - S31 to I1b2 - S23, S30, S32, S33 to I1b2* - S23+, M223-, S24- (old I1b2* x cluster / I1x ) ( * =DYS 455 = 10*, DYS 454 = 12*) Genealogist since 1978: Tracing 300+ surnames including: Armstrong,Arndale,Canaday,Chapman,Davis,Ennis,Gross,Mueller,Newman,Phyfer,Ford, FINLEY,Rogers,Sherman,Singleton,Smith,Terhune,Thompson,Westlake In a message dated 9/1/2006 5:33:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bforbes@carolina.rr.com writes: And Clan Forbes, for another, as shown in the Forbes Project website sponsored by FTDNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/(arttel55gkvtw5b2muxq30ao)/public/forbes/index.as px Interested parties please go to the "Y Results" tab, be patient for a few moments, and then you will see the color-coded y-DNA results from some 25 group members. "Group 1" represents those related in some way to the Clan Chief's line, represented by the current Master of Forbes who kindly agreed to submit to a 25-marker test. IF stats from this small sample group are any indication, it appears that up to 30% of males with the Forbes surname may be paternally connected to the original Forbes lineage, if that line is indeed represented by Master Malcolm Forbes's DNA, as we strongly suspect it is. I'd personally be really pleased if some of you with much more knowledge of the various markers, their mutations, and connections to Celtic roots, took the time to peruse this line and speculate on its origins, which appear to be much more "Irish" than "Scottish" if we believe the claimed roots of its members. The Irish nature of Forbes yDNA is consistent with Clan legend, for the progenitor is said to have sprung from a group of Irish lords who were sent to Scotland to help "police the Picts" circa 1200 AD. Several of us have submitted our yDNA markers to the SCOT-DNA project, where my own markers (FTDNA ID #3037) appear to line up with surnames like Stewart and Johnson, in addition to Forbes. Interestingly, I had my first 37-marker match (but w/ 4 mutations, I think) with someone outside the Forbes Clan a few days ago, and his surname is Ferguson. Coincidentally, one of the first given names from within the Clan Forbes around 1300 AD was a man named Fergus! Again, if someone wants to take a look and speculate on this old Scots line (which the DNA folks say is largely Celtic with Iberion roots), pls be our guest! Robert H. (Bob) Forbes, Jr. bforbes@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dmcduke@comcast.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > Yes, Clan MacMillan for one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tei A. Gordon" <tagordon@hotmail.com> > To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:31 AM > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > > >> Just curious whether there are any Clan Chiefs represented in any of our >> DNA >> projects? >> >> >> >> Tei A. Gordon >> >> Administrator >> >> The Gordon DNA Project >> >> www.TheGordonDNAproject.com <http://www.thegordondnaproject.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >> AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: >> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html >> >> ============================== >> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >> New content added every business day. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >>

And Clan Forbes, for another, as shown in the Forbes Project website sponsored by FTDNA: http://www.familytreedna.com/(arttel55gkvtw5b2muxq30ao)/public/forbes/index.aspx Interested parties please go to the "Y Results" tab, be patient for a few moments, and then you will see the color-coded y-DNA results from some 25 group members. "Group 1" represents those related in some way to the Clan Chief's line, represented by the current Master of Forbes who kindly agreed to submit to a 25-marker test. IF stats from this small sample group are any indication, it appears that up to 30% of males with the Forbes surname may be paternally connected to the original Forbes lineage, if that line is indeed represented by Master Malcolm Forbes's DNA, as we strongly suspect it is. I'd personally be really pleased if some of you with much more knowledge of the various markers, their mutations, and connections to Celtic roots, took the time to peruse this line and speculate on its origins, which appear to be much more "Irish" than "Scottish" if we believe the claimed roots of its members. The Irish nature of Forbes yDNA is consistent with Clan legend, for the progenitor is said to have sprung from a group of Irish lords who were sent to Scotland to help "police the Picts" circa 1200 AD. Several of us have submitted our yDNA markers to the SCOT-DNA project, where my own markers (FTDNA ID #3037) appear to line up with surnames like Stewart and Johnson, in addition to Forbes. Interestingly, I had my first 37-marker match (but w/ 4 mutations, I think) with someone outside the Forbes Clan a few days ago, and his surname is Ferguson. Coincidentally, one of the first given names from within the Clan Forbes around 1300 AD was a man named Fergus! Again, if someone wants to take a look and speculate on this old Scots line (which the DNA folks say is largely Celtic with Iberion roots), pls be our guest! Robert H. (Bob) Forbes, Jr. bforbes@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <dmcduke@comcast.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > Yes, Clan MacMillan for one. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tei A. Gordon" <tagordon@hotmail.com> > To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:31 AM > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > > >> Just curious whether there are any Clan Chiefs represented in any of our >> DNA >> projects? >> >> >> >> Tei A. Gordon >> >> Administrator >> >> The Gordon DNA Project >> >> www.TheGordonDNAproject.com <http://www.thegordondnaproject.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== >> AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: >> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html >> >> ============================== >> Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >> New content added every business day. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Per agreement with Rootsweb, there can be no marketing messsages > for any laboratory. No specific costs can be stated on list. > These questions can be responded to off list. > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

Yes, Clan MacMillan for one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tei A. Gordon" <tagordon@hotmail.com> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 4:31 AM Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Clan Chief participation > Just curious whether there are any Clan Chiefs represented in any of our > DNA > projects? > > > > Tei A. Gordon > > Administrator > > The Gordon DNA Project > > www.TheGordonDNAproject.com <http://www.thegordondnaproject.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

John I had intended to send that link to Laurence, as he asked for it. But for any interested parties, here is the link. I am group #1 Richard -- Clarkson Family -------------- Original message -------------- From: John Carr <jcarrgensearch@earthlink.net> > > On Aug 29, 2006, at 3:29 PM, David Rorer wrote: > > > > > Genetically, the Picts are indistinguishable from the other Celtic > > tribes that > > inhabited prehistoric Britain. Thus one wonders how Ethnoancestry > > could have > > determined Pictish DNA markers and how they differed from other Celtic > > peoples > > such as the Welsh or Irish, or for that matter anyone else of Celtic > > ancestry in > > Britain. > > > > David Rorer > > > > > I sure would not know how to define 'Pictish' DNA, but you seem to have > some secret knowledge. Care to share it's source? > > John Carr > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > DNA Results are also being posted on the web site. > Email to dnaclans@brigadoon.net if you want to join the > web site. For privacy reasons, this is a closed web site. > Want to join the Project? Visit: > http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

I've been following with interest the recent posts on Norman / Celtic / Pictish DNA signatures. While I agree that these are all firmly within R1 and possibly R1b Haplogroups - ( with a possible I haplogroup signature from Noble Norman ( ex Viking ) - there do appear to be some intriguing variances within the group. Can anyone explain in greater detail the importance of different results at DYS447 and differing 390/391 pairings. I understand that these are slow mutating markers and as such wonder whether these can be used to begin to identify possible sub - clades within R1b. Such enquiry may - in time allow the various Celtic - Proto Britannic sub groups to be differentiated. !? If any one has a scientific reasoning to disprove this hypothesis - do please tell me and put an end to me barking at the foot of some very tall trees. A table showing my own results and comparisons along these lines is available at: http://www.dowie.org/DNA%20Results.htm#Dowie%20Haplotype Regards Neil

Dear Listers: Just a reminder that Rootsweb does not allow attachments. Do not attempt to attach links or other files. They will be stripped by the server prior to distribution of mail. This may seem inconvenient at times, however, it keeps us safe from viruses and other nasties that can imbed in such items. List links in the body of the message by typing or pasting in the URL for the website of interest. For longer links to not break, surround them with < and >. Yours Aye, Lauren -----Original Message----- >From: r_clarkson@comcast.net >Sent: Aug 30, 2006 6:52 AM >To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [SCOT-DNA] clarkson dna link > >John > I had intended to send that link to Laurence, as he asked for it. But for any interested parties, here is the link. I am group #1 >Richard > >-- >Clarkson Family

Thanks Rychard. ---------------------------------------- > From: r_clarkson@comcast.net > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:16:55 +0000 > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Lawrence > > Lawrence > attached is the web site for the CLARKSON dna study. I am group #1 within which you will find the link to a match in Taiwan. > Richard > > -- > Clarkson Family > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Laurence McLeod-Maddox" <lmclm@hotmail.com> > > > Richard, > > What is your Y-search ID so that I can compare. > > Laurence in Japan. > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > From: r_clarkson@comcast.net > > > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:29:23 +0000 > > > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Urumqui mummies > > > > > > Aha ! These are the Tocharians, which I believe are linked to the Alans.. > > which eventually worked their way into Brittany, I believe. > > > My DNA is so rare, it is said that I may never get a match. However, my 4 > > most rare markers are matched by a person in Taiwan, who claims to be of the > > Chinese Han dynasty. My DNA is most definitely Celtic though, and perhaps pre > > Roman Briton. > > > I have spoken to Professor Mair ( the expert on Tocharian dna) and I > > suggested to him that IF Tocharian DNA were ever extracted ( Y) which is > > doubtful at this point, there would be a good chance that that I MIGHT get a > > match. He agreed. > > > Proffessor Mair is nearby at Temple University in Philadelphia. Great fun. > > > I would certainly not go around saying that I am Tocharian.. > > > .but I do have a close match that an expert on dna says would be a direct > > descendant from the 5th century IF that person got a further 37 marker test. > > That person traces from Brittany. Aside from the Tocharian hint, it would appear > > that both our ancestors left Britain in the 5th century on the invasion of the > > Anglo Saxons while my ancestors returned to Britain ( not yet England) under > > Duke William, as part of his Celtic Brigades. However, there are many > > possibilities here. Especially since the Alans went to Brittany... were my > > ancestors in Britain BEFORE the invasion ? > > > This DNA stuff is really fascinating. > > > Richard Clarkson > > > > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > > > Have questions about the lab? About privacy? About the process? > > > Visit the FAQ page: > > > http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html > > > Want to join the project? Visit: > > http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > > > > > > ============================== > > > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > > > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live > > Toolbar Today! > > http://www.toolbar.live.com > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at > > the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&target > > id=5429 > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > _________________________________________________________________ Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://www.toolbar.live.com

Just a "final" thing here on the Tocharian DNA/ Alani thing. I live in the US and was born in the UK, our family comes from the Scottish border areas. I used to be interested in Norse mythology until I recently found that my DNA is Celtic. I have always been interested in Arthurian legend, and have even been trying to learn some Welsh. So, I have been confused in perhaps linking this Tocharian/ Celtic/ Alan thing, along with an idea from some people that my DNA is Celtic Briton from perhaps a pre Roman era. I suppose some of you have read my thing on the Tocharians and the Alans, and I have responded to interested parties privately. I just came off a search engine, where it is stated that in ad 175, about 8000 Alans became the VI Roman Legion "Centrix" under a Marcus Aurelius. It is thought that another basis for King Arthur is a Legionaire Arturius in the VI Legion, which was based in the general area family is supposedly from. I hope all will understand my need in "sharing" this what continues to be a very strange set of synchronous happenings. -- Richard Clarkson Family -------------- Original message -------------- From: confido@ix.netcom.com > Sent to me by a friend. Thought it worth sharing: > > article from The Independent, 28 August 2006: > > > > ************************************************************** > A meeting of civilisations: The mystery of China's celtic mummies > > The discovery of European corpses thousands of miles away suggests > a hitherto unknown connection between East and West in the Bronze > Age. Clifford Coonan reports from Urumqi > > Published: 28 August 2006 > > Solid as a warrior of the Caledonii tribe, the man's hair is > reddish brown flecked with grey, framing high cheekbones, a long > nose, full lips and a ginger beard. When he lived three thousand > years ago, he stood six feet tall, and was buried wearing a red > twill tunic and tartan leggings. He looks like a Bronze Age European. > In fact, he's every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so. > > But this is no early Celt from central Scotland. This is the > mummified corpse of Cherchen Man, unearthed from the scorched > sands of the Taklamakan Desert in the far-flung region of Xinjiang > in western China, and now housed in a new museum in the provincial > capital of Urumqi. In the language spoken by the local Uighur > people in Xinjiang, "Taklamakan" means: "You come in and never > come out." > > The extraordinary thing is that Cherchen Man was found - with > the mummies of three women and a baby - in a burial site thousands > of miles to the east of where the Celts established their biggest > settlements in France and the British Isles. > > DNA testing confirms that he and hundreds of other mummies found > in Xinjiang's Tarim Basin are of European origin. We don't know > how he got there, what brought him there, or how long he and > his kind lived there for. But, as the desert's name suggests, > it is certain that he never came out. > > His discovery provides an unexpected connection between east > and west and some valuable clues to early European history. > > One of the women who shared a tomb with Cherchen Man has light > brown hair which looks as if it was brushed and braided for her > funeral only yesterday. Her face is painted with curling designs, > and her striking red burial gown has lost none of its lustre > during the three millenniums that this tall, fine-featured woman > has been lying beneath the sand of the Northern Silk Road. > > The bodies are far better preserved than the Egyptian mummies, > and it is sad to see the infants on display; to see how the baby > was wrapped in a beautiful brown cloth tied with red and blue > cord, then a blue stone placed on each eye. Beside it was a baby's > milk bottle with a teat, made from a sheep's udder. > > Based on the mummy, the museum has reconstructed what Cherchen > Man would have looked like and how he lived. The similarities > to the traditional Bronze Age Celts are uncanny, and analysis > has shown that the weave of the cloth is the same as that of > those found on the bodies of salt miners in Austria from 1300BC. > > The burial sites of Cherchen Man and his fellow people were marked > with stone structures that look like dolmens from Britain, ringed > by round-faced, Celtic figures, or standing stones. Among their > icons were figures reminiscent of the sheela-na-gigs, wild females > who flaunted their bodies and can still be found in mediaeval > churches in Britain. A female mummy wears a long, conical hat > which has to be a witch or a wizard's hat. Or a druid's, perhaps? > The wooden combs they used to fan their tresses are familiar > to students of ancient Celtic art. > > At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched > from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to > Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and > Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies > seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into > central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet. > > The Celts gradually infiltrated Britain between about 500 and > 100BC. There was probably never anything like an organised Celtic > invasion: they arrived at different times, and are considered > a group of peoples loosely connected by similar language, religion, > and cultural expression. > > The eastern Celts spoke a now-dead language called Tocharian, > which is related to Celtic languages and part of the Indo-European > group. They seem to have been a peaceful folk, as there are few > weapons among the Cherchen find and there is little evidence > of a caste system. > > Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old > Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a > number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan. One of > these mummies was an eight-year-old child wrapped in a piece > of patterned wool cloth, closed with bone pegs. > > The Loulan Beauty's features are Nordic. She was 45 when she > died, and was buried with a basket of food for the next life, > including domesticated wheat, combs and a feather. > > The Taklamakan desert has given up hundreds of desiccated corpses > in the past 25 years, and archaeologists say the discoveries > in the Tarim Basin are some of the most significant finds in > the past quarter of a century. > > "From around 1800BC, the earliest mummies in the Tarim Basin > were exclusively Caucausoid, or Europoid," says Professor Victor > Mair of Pennsylvania University, who has been captivated by the > mummies since he spotted them partially obscured in a back room > in the old museum in 1988. "He looked like my brother Dave sleeping > there, and that's what really got me. Lying there with his eyes > closed," Professor Mair said. > > It's a subject that exercises him and he has gone to extraordinary > lengths, dodging difficult political issues, to gain further > knowledge of these remarkable people. > > East Asian migrants arrived in the eastern portions of the Tarim > Basin about 3,000 years ago, Professor Mair says, while the Uighur > peoples arrived after the collapse of the Orkon Uighur Kingdom, > based in modern-day Mongolia, around the year 842. > > A believer in the "inter-relatedness of all human communities", > Professor Mair resists attempts to impose a theory of a single > people arriving in Xinjiang, and believes rather that the early > Europeans headed in different directions, some travelling west > to become the Celts in Britain and Ireland, others taking a northern > route to become the Germanic tribes, and then another offshoot > heading east and ending up in Xinjiang. > > This section of the ancient Silk Road is one of the world's most > barren precincts. You are further away from the sea here than > at any other place, and you can feel it. This where China tests > its nuclear weapons. Labour camps are scattered all around - > who would try to escape? But the remoteness has worked to the > archaeologists' advantage. The ancient corpses have avoided decay > because the Tarim Basin is so dry, with alkaline soils. Scientists > have been able to glean information about many aspects of our > Bronze Age forebears from the mummies, from their physical make-up > to information about how they buried their dead, what tools they > used and what clothes they wore. > > In her book The Mummies of Urumchi, the textile expert Elizabeth > Wayland Barber examines the tartan-style cloth, and reckons it > can be traced back to Anatolia and the Caucasus, the steppe area > north of the Black Sea. Her theory is that this group divided, > starting in the Caucasus and then splitting, one group going > west and another east. > > Even though they have been dead for thousands of years, every > perfectly preserved fibre of the mummies' make-up has been relentlessly > politicised. > > The received wisdom in China says that two hundred years before > the birth of Christ, China's emperor Wu Di sent an ambassador > to the west to establish an alliance against the marauding Huns, > then based in Mongolia. The route across Asia that the emissary, > Zhang Qian, took eventually became the Silk Road to Europe. Hundreds > of years later Marco Polo came, and the opening up of China began. > > The very thought that Caucasians were settled in a part of China > thousands of years before Wu Di's early contacts with the west > and Marco Polo's travels has enormous political ramifications. > And that these Europeans should have been in restive Xinjiang > hundreds of years before East Asians is explosive. > > The Chinese historian Ji Xianlin, writing a preface to Ancient > Corpses of Xinjiang by the Chinese archaeologist Wang Binghua, > translated by Professor Mair, says China "supported and admired" > research by foreign experts into the mummies. "However, within > China a small group of ethnic separatists have taken advantage > of this opportunity to stir up trouble and are acting like buffoons. > Some of them have even styled themselves the descendants of these > ancient 'white people' with the aim of dividing the motherland. > But these perverse acts will not succeed," Ji wrote. > > Many Uighurs consider the Han Chinese as invaders. The territory > was annexed by China in 1955, and the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous > Region established, and there have been numerous incidents of > unrest over the years. In 1997 in the northern city of Yining > there were riots by Muslim separatists and Chinese security forces > cracked down, with nine deaths. There are occasional outbursts, > and the region remains very heavily policed. > > Not surprisingly, the government has been slow to publicise these > valuable historical finds for fear of fuelling separatist currents > in Xinjiang. > > The Loulan Beauty, for example, was claimed by the Uighurs as > their symbol in song and image, although genetic testing now > shows that she was in fact European. > > Professor Mair acknowledges that the political dimension to all > this has made his work difficult, but says that the research > shows that the people of Xinjiang are a dizzying mixture. "They > tend to mix as you enter the Han Dynasty. By that time the East > Asian component is very noticeable," he says. "Modern DNA and > ancient DNA show that Uighurs, Kazaks, Kyrgyzs, the peoples of > central Asia are all mixed Caucasian and East Asian. The modern > and ancient DNA tell the same story," he says. > > Altogether there are 400 mummies in various degrees of desiccation > and decomposition, including the prominent Han Chinese warrior > Zhang Xiong and other Uighur mummies, and thousands of skulls. > The mummies will keep the scientists busy for a long time. Only > a handful of the better-preserved ones are on display in the > impressive new Xinjiang museum. Work began in 1999, but was stopped > in 2002 after a corruption scandal and the jailing of a former > director for involvement in the theft of antiques. > > The museum finally opened on the 50th anniversary of China's > annexation of the restive region, and the mummies are housed > in glass display cases (which were sealed with what looked like > Sellotape) in a multi-media wing. > > In the same room are the much more recent Han mummies - equally > interesting, but rendering the display confusing, as it groups > all the mummies closely together. Which makes sound political > sense. > > This political correctness continues in another section of the > museum dedicated to the achievements of the Chinese revolution, > and boasts artefacts from the Anti-Japanese War (1931-1945). > > Best preserved of all the corpses is Yingpan Man, known as the > Handsome Man, a 2,000-year-old Caucasian mummy discovered in > 1995. He had a gold foil death mask - a Greek tradition - covering > his blond, bearded face, and wore elaborate golden embroidered > red and maroon wool garments with images of fighting Greeks or > Romans. The hemp mask is painted with a soft smile and the thin > moustache of a dandy. Currently on display at a museum in Tokyo, > the handsome Yingpan man was two metres tall (six feet six inches), > and pushing 30 when he died. His head rests on a pillow in the > shape of a crowing cockerel. > *********************************************************** > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > THANK YOU to all the Scot DNA Volunteers! They give freely > of their time and effort to this Project and study. NO ONE > in this Project receives any financial or in-kind remuneration > for their work. Please be patient with them as they perform the work > necessary to analyze and report the findings of what has been > submitted to the Project by a multitude of sources. > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

Lawrence attached is the web site for the CLARKSON dna study. I am group #1 within which you will find the link to a match in Taiwan. Richard -- Clarkson Family -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Laurence McLeod-Maddox" <lmclm@hotmail.com> > Richard, > What is your Y-search ID so that I can compare. > Laurence in Japan. > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: r_clarkson@comcast.net > > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:29:23 +0000 > > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Urumqui mummies > > > > Aha ! These are the Tocharians, which I believe are linked to the Alans.. > which eventually worked their way into Brittany, I believe. > > My DNA is so rare, it is said that I may never get a match. However, my 4 > most rare markers are matched by a person in Taiwan, who claims to be of the > Chinese Han dynasty. My DNA is most definitely Celtic though, and perhaps pre > Roman Briton. > > I have spoken to Professor Mair ( the expert on Tocharian dna) and I > suggested to him that IF Tocharian DNA were ever extracted ( Y) which is > doubtful at this point, there would be a good chance that that I MIGHT get a > match. He agreed. > > Proffessor Mair is nearby at Temple University in Philadelphia. Great fun. > > I would certainly not go around saying that I am Tocharian.. > > .but I do have a close match that an expert on dna says would be a direct > descendant from the 5th century IF that person got a further 37 marker test. > That person traces from Brittany. Aside from the Tocharian hint, it would appear > that both our ancestors left Britain in the 5th century on the invasion of the > Anglo Saxons while my ancestors returned to Britain ( not yet England) under > Duke William, as part of his Celtic Brigades. However, there are many > possibilities here. Especially since the Alans went to Brittany... were my > ancestors in Britain BEFORE the invasion ? > > This DNA stuff is really fascinating. > > Richard Clarkson > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > > Have questions about the lab? About privacy? About the process? > > Visit the FAQ page: > > http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html > > Want to join the project? Visit: > http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > > > > ============================== > > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live > Toolbar Today! > http://www.toolbar.live.com > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at > the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&target > id=5429 >

I would like to thank all of those that responded to my query reference late DNA results, it was more of an enquiry than a complaint. I wondered if other list member had experienced the same problem as I, which looking at the response I had, there was a number of us in the same boat. On a more positive note, I had two excellent replies one from Bennett Greenspan, and an other from the List Administrate, so I should be hearing some very soon. Bob

On Aug 29, 2006, at 3:29 PM, David Rorer wrote: > > Genetically, the Picts are indistinguishable from the other Celtic > tribes that > inhabited prehistoric Britain. Thus one wonders how Ethnoancestry > could have > determined Pictish DNA markers and how they differed from other Celtic > peoples > such as the Welsh or Irish, or for that matter anyone else of Celtic > ancestry in > Britain. > > David Rorer > I sure would not know how to define 'Pictish' DNA, but you seem to have some secret knowledge. Care to share it's source? John Carr

Interesting, since the Picts are not an ethnic group. From the Wikpedia: "The Picts were a confederation of tribes in central and northern Scotland from Roman times until the 10th century. They lived to the north of the Forth and Clyde. They were the descendants of the Caledonii and other tribes named by Roman historians or found on the map of Ptolemy. Pictland, also known as Pictavia, became the kingdom of Alba during the 10th century and the Picts became the Albannach or Scots." Genetically, the Picts are indistinguishable from the other Celtic tribes that inhabited prehistoric Britain. Thus one wonders how Ethnoancestry could have determined Pictish DNA markers and how they differed from other Celtic peoples such as the Welsh or Irish, or for that matter anyone else of Celtic ancestry in Britain. Some of those who are posting to this newsgroup appear to equate DNA with nationality which is nonsense. There is no such thing as "Norman DNA" since a Norman is simply someone who comes from that area of northern France called Normandy. Normans are not an ethnic group and genetically, except for those who are descended from the North Men, who gave this area its name, are indistinguishable from other inhabitants of Northern France (who also are likely of Celtic ancestry and thus related to the Picts) The ancestors of those people we call Picts, and the Romans called Caledonii, emigrated up from the south of Britain, and are related to the other Celtic tribes that settled the island. They did not live in isolation for the time necessary to develop distinctive DNA markers, nor has the population of Scotland been isolated either. Instead, over the last two thousand years numerous armies and migrations have crossed the land and mixed up the genetic pot to a considerable degree. Dr. Wilson may claim to be a geneticist but I look on his Pictish DNA claim with a good deal of skepticism. David Rorer > -----Original Message----- > From: John Carr [mailto:jcarrgensearch@earthlink.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:45 AM > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Pickish DNA > > One should be aware that this could be duplicate testing for people who > already have YSTR results before ordering the new test. 21 of the 27 > YSTR markers Ethnoancestry has in their Pictish DNA test are included > in the 37 marker FTDNA test. DYS 425 is included in FTDNA's 67 marker > test, but nearly all R1bs have an allele of 12 at this marker. DYS 425 > and the other 5 markers are available from DNA Fingerprint, which has > now merged with FTDNA. All of these markers, except DYS425, DYS434 and > DYS435, are included in testing conducted by Sorenson Labs, which > includes DNA Heritage, Relative Genetics and SMGF. > > What we need is to uncover is the haplotype Ethnoancestry has labeled > Pictish. Since Dr. Wilson is located in Edinburgh and has conducted > extensive DNA testing on the local population using various grants and > programs from government and private sources, he is a prime candidate > to achieve a break down the Haplogroup profile of the Scottish and > English population. David Faux has indicated in the past he would > share results of the genealogy related DNA testing conducted during the > studies conducted by Edinburgh University. Hopefully we still have > that opportunity in our future. > > > John Carr

Richard, What is your Y-search ID so that I can compare. Laurence in Japan. ---------------------------------------- > From: r_clarkson@comcast.net > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:29:23 +0000 > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Urumqui mummies > > Aha ! These are the Tocharians, which I believe are linked to the Alans.. which eventually worked their way into Brittany, I believe. > My DNA is so rare, it is said that I may never get a match. However, my 4 most rare markers are matched by a person in Taiwan, who claims to be of the Chinese Han dynasty. My DNA is most definitely Celtic though, and perhaps pre Roman Briton. > I have spoken to Professor Mair ( the expert on Tocharian dna) and I suggested to him that IF Tocharian DNA were ever extracted ( Y) which is doubtful at this point, there would be a good chance that that I MIGHT get a match. He agreed. > Proffessor Mair is nearby at Temple University in Philadelphia. Great fun. > I would certainly not go around saying that I am Tocharian.. > .but I do have a close match that an expert on dna says would be a direct descendant from the 5th century IF that person got a further 37 marker test. That person traces from Brittany. Aside from the Tocharian hint, it would appear that both our ancestors left Britain in the 5th century on the invasion of the Anglo Saxons while my ancestors returned to Britain ( not yet England) under Duke William, as part of his Celtic Brigades. However, there are many possibilities here. Especially since the Alans went to Brittany... were my ancestors in Britain BEFORE the invasion ? > This DNA stuff is really fascinating. > Richard Clarkson > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Have questions about the lab? About privacy? About the process? > Visit the FAQ page: > http://www.familytreedna.com/faq.html > Want to join the project? Visit: http://www.ftdna.com/surname_det.asp?group=Scottish-Clans&projecttype=G > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > _________________________________________________________________ Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://www.toolbar.live.com

Aha ! These are the Tocharians, which I believe are linked to the Alans.. which eventually worked their way into Brittany, I believe. My DNA is so rare, it is said that I may never get a match. However, my 4 most rare markers are matched by a person in Taiwan, who claims to be of the Chinese Han dynasty. My DNA is most definitely Celtic though, and perhaps pre Roman Briton. I have spoken to Professor Mair ( the expert on Tocharian dna) and I suggested to him that IF Tocharian DNA were ever extracted ( Y) which is doubtful at this point, there would be a good chance that that I MIGHT get a match. He agreed. Proffessor Mair is nearby at Temple University in Philadelphia. Great fun. I would certainly not go around saying that I am Tocharian.. .but I do have a close match that an expert on dna says would be a direct descendant from the 5th century IF that person got a further 37 marker test. That person traces from Brittany. Aside from the Tocharian hint, it would appear that both our ancestors left Britain in the 5th century on the invasion of the Anglo Saxons while my ancestors returned to Britain ( not yet England) under Duke William, as part of his Celtic Brigades. However, there are many possibilities here. Especially since the Alans went to Brittany... were my ancestors in Britain BEFORE the invasion ? This DNA stuff is really fascinating. Richard Clarkson

Hello Derek, you said .........."Common missing links are M160 and M37?"> Using this link in the "Kerchner's R1b and Subclades yDNA Haplogroup Project" 2006 YDNA Haplogroup Tree from ISOGG http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html - I see they are common "failed" ones.......as well as P66 and S21? re this table of diagnostic polymorphisms :- R1b1c M269, S3, S10, S13, S17 . . . . . R1b1c* - . . . . . R1b1c1 M37 . . . . . R1b1c2 M65 . . . . . R1b1c3 M126 . . . . . R1b1c4 M153 . . . . . R1b1c5 M160 . . . . . R1b1c6 SRY2627 (M167) . . . . . R1b1c7 M222 . . . . . R1b1c8 P66 . . . . . R1b1c9 S21 (added) . . . . . . R1b1c9* - . . . . . . R1b1c9a L1 (S26) (added) . . . . . . R1b1c9b S29 (added) . . . . . R1b1c10 S28 (added) Ian Macdonnell

Sent to me by a friend. Thought it worth sharing: article from The Independent, 28 August 2006: <http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article1222214.ece> ************************************************************** A meeting of civilisations: The mystery of China's celtic mummies The discovery of European corpses thousands of miles away suggests a hitherto unknown connection between East and West in the Bronze Age. Clifford Coonan reports from Urumqi Published: 28 August 2006 Solid as a warrior of the Caledonii tribe, the man's hair is reddish brown flecked with grey, framing high cheekbones, a long nose, full lips and a ginger beard. When he lived three thousand years ago, he stood six feet tall, and was buried wearing a red twill tunic and tartan leggings. He looks like a Bronze Age European. In fact, he's every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so. But this is no early Celt from central Scotland. This is the mummified corpse of Cherchen Man, unearthed from the scorched sands of the Taklamakan Desert in the far-flung region of Xinjiang in western China, and now housed in a new museum in the provincial capital of Urumqi. In the language spoken by the local Uighur people in Xinjiang, "Taklamakan" means: "You come in and never come out." The extraordinary thing is that Cherchen Man was found - with the mummies of three women and a baby - in a burial site thousands of miles to the east of where the Celts established their biggest settlements in France and the British Isles. DNA testing confirms that he and hundreds of other mummies found in Xinjiang's Tarim Basin are of European origin. We don't know how he got there, what brought him there, or how long he and his kind lived there for. But, as the desert's name suggests, it is certain that he never came out. His discovery provides an unexpected connection between east and west and some valuable clues to early European history. One of the women who shared a tomb with Cherchen Man has light brown hair which looks as if it was brushed and braided for her funeral only yesterday. Her face is painted with curling designs, and her striking red burial gown has lost none of its lustre during the three millenniums that this tall, fine-featured woman has been lying beneath the sand of the Northern Silk Road. The bodies are far better preserved than the Egyptian mummies, and it is sad to see the infants on display; to see how the baby was wrapped in a beautiful brown cloth tied with red and blue cord, then a blue stone placed on each eye. Beside it was a baby's milk bottle with a teat, made from a sheep's udder. Based on the mummy, the museum has reconstructed what Cherchen Man would have looked like and how he lived. The similarities to the traditional Bronze Age Celts are uncanny, and analysis has shown that the weave of the cloth is the same as that of those found on the bodies of salt miners in Austria from 1300BC. The burial sites of Cherchen Man and his fellow people were marked with stone structures that look like dolmens from Britain, ringed by round-faced, Celtic figures, or standing stones. Among their icons were figures reminiscent of the sheela-na-gigs, wild females who flaunted their bodies and can still be found in mediaeval churches in Britain. A female mummy wears a long, conical hat which has to be a witch or a wizard's hat. Or a druid's, perhaps? The wooden combs they used to fan their tresses are familiar to students of ancient Celtic art. At their peak, around 300BC, the influence of the Celts stretched from Ireland in the west to the south of Spain and across to Italy's Po Valley, and probably extended to parts of Poland and Ukraine and the central plain of Turkey in the east. These mummies seem to suggest, however, that the Celts penetrated well into central Asia, nearly making it as far as Tibet. The Celts gradually infiltrated Britain between about 500 and 100BC. There was probably never anything like an organised Celtic invasion: they arrived at different times, and are considered a group of peoples loosely connected by similar language, religion, and cultural expression. The eastern Celts spoke a now-dead language called Tocharian, which is related to Celtic languages and part of the Indo-European group. They seem to have been a peaceful folk, as there are few weapons among the Cherchen find and there is little evidence of a caste system. Even older than the Cherchen find is that of the 4,000-year-old Loulan Beauty, who has long flowing fair hair and is one of a number of mummies discovered near the town of Loulan. One of these mummies was an eight-year-old child wrapped in a piece of patterned wool cloth, closed with bone pegs. The Loulan Beauty's features are Nordic. She was 45 when she died, and was buried with a basket of food for the next life, including domesticated wheat, combs and a feather. The Taklamakan desert has given up hundreds of desiccated corpses in the past 25 years, and archaeologists say the discoveries in the Tarim Basin are some of the most significant finds in the past quarter of a century. "From around 1800BC, the earliest mummies in the Tarim Basin were exclusively Caucausoid, or Europoid," says Professor Victor Mair of Pennsylvania University, who has been captivated by the mummies since he spotted them partially obscured in a back room in the old museum in 1988. "He looked like my brother Dave sleeping there, and that's what really got me. Lying there with his eyes closed," Professor Mair said. It's a subject that exercises him and he has gone to extraordinary lengths, dodging difficult political issues, to gain further knowledge of these remarkable people. East Asian migrants arrived in the eastern portions of the Tarim Basin about 3,000 years ago, Professor Mair says, while the Uighur peoples arrived after the collapse of the Orkon Uighur Kingdom, based in modern-day Mongolia, around the year 842. A believer in the "inter-relatedness of all human communities", Professor Mair resists attempts to impose a theory of a single people arriving in Xinjiang, and believes rather that the early Europeans headed in different directions, some travelling west to become the Celts in Britain and Ireland, others taking a northern route to become the Germanic tribes, and then another offshoot heading east and ending up in Xinjiang. This section of the ancient Silk Road is one of the world's most barren precincts. You are further away from the sea here than at any other place, and you can feel it. This where China tests its nuclear weapons. Labour camps are scattered all around - who would try to escape? But the remoteness has worked to the archaeologists' advantage. The ancient corpses have avoided decay because the Tarim Basin is so dry, with alkaline soils. Scientists have been able to glean information about many aspects of our Bronze Age forebears from the mummies, from their physical make-up to information about how they buried their dead, what tools they used and what clothes they wore. In her book The Mummies of Urumchi, the textile expert Elizabeth Wayland Barber examines the tartan-style cloth, and reckons it can be traced back to Anatolia and the Caucasus, the steppe area north of the Black Sea. Her theory is that this group divided, starting in the Caucasus and then splitting, one group going west and another east. Even though they have been dead for thousands of years, every perfectly preserved fibre of the mummies' make-up has been relentlessly politicised. The received wisdom in China says that two hundred years before the birth of Christ, China's emperor Wu Di sent an ambassador to the west to establish an alliance against the marauding Huns, then based in Mongolia. The route across Asia that the emissary, Zhang Qian, took eventually became the Silk Road to Europe. Hundreds of years later Marco Polo came, and the opening up of China began. The very thought that Caucasians were settled in a part of China thousands of years before Wu Di's early contacts with the west and Marco Polo's travels has enormous political ramifications. And that these Europeans should have been in restive Xinjiang hundreds of years before East Asians is explosive. The Chinese historian Ji Xianlin, writing a preface to Ancient Corpses of Xinjiang by the Chinese archaeologist Wang Binghua, translated by Professor Mair, says China "supported and admired" research by foreign experts into the mummies. "However, within China a small group of ethnic separatists have taken advantage of this opportunity to stir up trouble and are acting like buffoons. Some of them have even styled themselves the descendants of these ancient 'white people' with the aim of dividing the motherland. But these perverse acts will not succeed," Ji wrote. Many Uighurs consider the Han Chinese as invaders. The territory was annexed by China in 1955, and the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region established, and there have been numerous incidents of unrest over the years. In 1997 in the northern city of Yining there were riots by Muslim separatists and Chinese security forces cracked down, with nine deaths. There are occasional outbursts, and the region remains very heavily policed. Not surprisingly, the government has been slow to publicise these valuable historical finds for fear of fuelling separatist currents in Xinjiang. The Loulan Beauty, for example, was claimed by the Uighurs as their symbol in song and image, although genetic testing now shows that she was in fact European. Professor Mair acknowledges that the political dimension to all this has made his work difficult, but says that the research shows that the people of Xinjiang are a dizzying mixture. "They tend to mix as you enter the Han Dynasty. By that time the East Asian component is very noticeable," he says. "Modern DNA and ancient DNA show that Uighurs, Kazaks, Kyrgyzs, the peoples of central Asia are all mixed Caucasian and East Asian. The modern and ancient DNA tell the same story," he says. Altogether there are 400 mummies in various degrees of desiccation and decomposition, including the prominent Han Chinese warrior Zhang Xiong and other Uighur mummies, and thousands of skulls. The mummies will keep the scientists busy for a long time. Only a handful of the better-preserved ones are on display in the impressive new Xinjiang museum. Work began in 1999, but was stopped in 2002 after a corruption scandal and the jailing of a former director for involvement in the theft of antiques. The museum finally opened on the 50th anniversary of China's annexation of the restive region, and the mummies are housed in glass display cases (which were sealed with what looked like Sellotape) in a multi-media wing. In the same room are the much more recent Han mummies - equally interesting, but rendering the display confusing, as it groups all the mummies closely together. Which makes sound political sense. This political correctness continues in another section of the museum dedicated to the achievements of the Chinese revolution, and boasts artefacts from the Anti-Japanese War (1931-1945). Best preserved of all the corpses is Yingpan Man, known as the Handsome Man, a 2,000-year-old Caucasian mummy discovered in 1995. He had a gold foil death mask - a Greek tradition - covering his blond, bearded face, and wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon wool garments with images of fighting Greeks or Romans. The hemp mask is painted with a soft smile and the thin moustache of a dandy. Currently on display at a museum in Tokyo, the handsome Yingpan man was two metres tall (six feet six inches), and pushing 30 when he died. His head rests on a pillow in the shape of a crowing cockerel. ***********************************************************

Dear Listers: I wrote FTDNA re <relder@tiscali.co.uk>'s complaint posted to this list. As usual, I received an extremely quick response. They have been in touch with him to state that hs legitimately long overdue results are (because they needed to move him from A to B swab) should be arriving in the next week. Just thought the rest of the information should be posted, not just the complaint. This list is certainly here to discuss the projects, the aspects of testing and our shared experience. I would prefer it not be turned into a "complaint desk." Other avenues should be explored that are most appropriate to get the needed resolution. Yours Aye, Lauren Scot DNA List Admin relder <relder@tiscali.co.uk> shared Aug 27, 2006 2:01 AM I was wondering if any other listers have or experiencing the same problem I'm having with the http://www.familytreedna.com . It is over six months since I was asked and paid for to upgrade my markers from 37 to 67, as to date have not received anything but excuses. First it was going to be May then June or July maybe August now I have heard t is going to be September. One would think, with a company like this, it would have been able to get its act together by now, just makes me wonder if the results I receive with be 100% mine Well we will see what September brings Bob

I forgot to add that I am R1b1c........ but still waiting 4 months for full 'DeepSNP-R1b(DSNP-R1b)' test results to see if I am R1b1c(1? to 9?):- this is what they say :- Your Haplogroup Your SNP Tests R1b1c M173+ M207+ M269+ M343+ P25+ M126- M153- M18- M222- M65- M73- SRY2627- Your haplogroup assignment represents a partial result from your Deep Clade test. One or more SNP tests failed to produce a clear result. These SNPs are being rerun. However all the SNPs that provided a result through the testing are displayed so that you can see what you are (+) and which SNPs you can rule out (-) at this time Ian Macdonnell

Ian Sounds like many are waiting for retesting to clarify categorisation. Mine is also R1b1c and have been waiting 3 months: This is what FTDNA say in 'Pending Results' M173+ M207+ M269+ M343+ P25+ M126- M18- M222- M65- M73- P66- SRY2627- "The following SNP's have not yet produced a clear result and are in the process of retesting: M153, M160, M37" Common missing links are M160 and M37? Derek Ham ----- Original Message From: <imacdonn@bigpond.net.au> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Any in Haplog group R1b1c >I forgot to add that I am R1b1c........ but still waiting 4 months for full > 'DeepSNP-R1b(DSNP-R1b)' test results to see if I am R1b1c(1? to 9?):- this > is what they say :- > > Your Haplogroup > Your SNP Tests > > R1b1c > M173+ M207+ M269+ M343+ P25+ M126- M153- M18- M222- M65- M73- SRY2627- > > > Your haplogroup assignment represents a partial result from your Deep > Clade test. One or more SNP tests failed to produce a clear result. > These > SNPs are being rerun. However all the SNPs that provided a result through > the testing are displayed so that you can see what you are (+) and which > SNPs you can rule out (-) at this time > > > > Ian Macdonnell > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >