Just go to familytreedna website and it will give options. If you think you're going to pursue this dna thing all the way, do the 37 marker test. I'm learning how to use all of this information so I'm not a good resource. -----Original Message----- From: walter [mailto:walter@macarthurnet.com] Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 1:07 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] test kit I have been a member of this group for quite some time. I have requested a kit in the past and it was never received. I am unable to find information on requesting another kit. Can someone furnish a link so that I might request the kit and ensure the SCOT-DNA group has access to the results? My understanding is that there is a bit of a discount ordering through the SCOT-DNA a group as opposed to ordering directly from FTDNA. Do I want the 25 marker or the 37 marker? Thanks, Walter MacArthur ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

I have been a member of this group for quite some time. I have requested a kit in the past and it was never received. I am unable to find information on requesting another kit. Can someone furnish a link so that I might request the kit and ensure the SCOT-DNA group has access to the results? My understanding is that there is a bit of a discount ordering through the SCOT-DNA a group as opposed to ordering directly from FTDNA. Do I want the 25 marker or the 37 marker? Thanks, Walter MacArthur

It sounds interesting. But what good is a closed group? So you send in your application and hear nothing. A note saying we received it would be nice. So someone else notices a vacumn and starts to fill it an you-all start grumbling we were here first. how would they know when you-all won't even answer an e-mail of inquiry? Jim

John, Do you have a webpage or webpage under FTDNA? Where can we go to view information on this project? Scott > [Original Message] > From: John A Hansen <jahansen@brigadoon.net> > To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 12/17/2005 1:05:30 PM > Subject: Scottish DNA project status report ( Dec 17 2005) > > Dear All: > > Katherine Borges has announced her own Scottish DNA project. That is > fine with me and I wish her and Kenny the best with lots of tests. > > This status report is to merely advise the status of our "Scottish DNA > project" and to correct some misstatements. > > This Scotland DNA project has always welcomed: > A: anyone of Scottish descendant ( not restricted to Clans etc) > Many are searching for their Clan or family connections. > B: mtDNA samples. ( Charlotte has recently posted an updated > database with new MtDNA results to date. > C: Any Testing company results. ( Marsha converts the results > to they are compatible with the Standard Results so they fit > in the database. > > A brief outline of the Scottish DNA project ....started in March 2002 > ( almost 4 years in the making) ! > > There are 4 components to the total Project. You can select any > or all of these items as you wish. There is no requirement for > example, to do the DNA testing in our project. We only provide > this service as a means to be able to have potential contributors > obtain the discounts that are available to all registered Surname > and Geographic projects. > > A: The testing at Family Tree DNA. If you request the DNA kit > through our project then I get access to the records. Your records > are then compared to the other records and a notice of a > match is sent to you automatically. You can also request to > join the Scottish DNA project from another project so your > records are then compared with the other test results in the > Family Tree DNA database. Family Tree is now allowing > people to have their results listed in several DNA projects. > However, we do not automatically include any of those records > in our database until the person submits them to Marsha and > also gives us permission to publish them as described in > item D below. > > B: The mailing list as administered by Lauren Boyd. > You would join the mailing list in the normal way by sending > an email to: > SCOT-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:SCOT-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com> > with the one word : > Subscribe > in the body of the message. There is also a wealth > of info available in this mailing list archives at > www.rootsweb.com <http://www.rootsweb.com> > > C: The Web site as administered by Charlotte Braun. There are lots > of records, genealogy trees, advices, and misc information. The > main database is available through this web site. > The web site is available by sending a email to > Charlotte Broun at: cbroun@primus.com.au > <mailto:cbroun@primus.com.au> > or to DNACLANS@brigadoon.net > > D: The "database" as administered by Marsha. There are currently about > 1125 results in this database. This is then posted on > the private web site for everyone. We do this since it is only > accessed by people that identify themselves, and not just the general > public ( ala a general web site). There are privacy concerns about > having > your DNA available to the general public ( insurance companies etc ie > non-genealogy groups that have other agendas). There have been > suggestions to develop a public web site and code the responses for > privacy. I have exchanged data with the Reivers project and others > that have secure and private methods to either control access > or code the results so it is not just in public domain. > > There are some very interesting results emerging from several studies > underway > by serious genetic scientist. These studies will be available sometime in > late 2006 from recent correspondence. BTW: I posted my first "guess" at a > specific Scottish highland and lowland hapotype in 2003 and it is still > shown > on the Database. This "guess" was based on some analysis from the early > results recieved and some data that had been published by Dr Jim Wilson in > his early studies ( including iceland). It will be interesting to see how > well > it conforms in the in depth analysis of the new results coming out next > year. > > Best Regards > John A Hansen > jahansen@brigadoon.net > > ______________________________

MACDONNELL (CLAN DONALD, MARTIN & MCIVOR - ISLE of SKYE "CONNECTIONS?". WILLIAM MACDONNELL, died 1841(?), Off-set Printer, Dublin, and CATHERINE MCIVOR, died 1837(?), were married c1813. They had at least these children:- William Jnr, b.1814; Ivor, b.1823; Edmund, b.1826, Dublin (my line). They all followed in the printing business (13 Anglesea St, Temple Bar) before leaving Dublin to England (Ivor), and the other two to Australia. They had among the first 'Jeweller' shops in the colonies: - Sydney, (Brush & Macdonnell); Brisbane, (Flavelle Bros - Edmund, Mng Partner); & later in Melbourne (W. Macdonnell & Co). Any other children went to...?? Before turning to printing, William was most likely also the Papermaker, William MacDonnell with a mill at Templeogue, near Dublin. (and his father, William, was also a Papermaker, d. 1810). There was a large "dynasty" of M'Donnell family, 'master papermakers', in Dublin County 1750-1850 (12 mills & many stores/shops/homes in central Temple Bar, Dublin). Most famous is John (I & II) MacDonnell's "Swift! brook", Saggart - of 'Ancient Irish Vellum" {paper} fame. Some of them (eg, John/Joseph, of Saggart) descend from the Tinnakille branch, Queens County (ex-Antrim). They were the Leinster Macdonnells, three Galloglas Septs, kinsmen of the Earl of Antrim & that line includes a William of the right age as above. (ie, d.1810, but no definite proof yet of my line). I suspect both William & Catherine came from "Northern Ireland", eg Antrim, with ex-Scotland distant past- both names have Norse/Hebridean history. I'm a member of the FamilyTreeDNA 'Clan Donald USA' and 'Scottish Clans' DNA matching projects. I am Rb1. My so-called deep ancestry is "Icelandic/Norse-Scot" (my distant paternal line origin). My only close DNA match is to J. MARTIN, Alabama, also an 'Icelandic/Norse-Scot'. There is an extremely high 99.5% probability of us having a "most recent common ancestor", albeit way back to c.1200AD (in Skye?). I'm not trying to trace my male tree back to 1200AD and I know all Clan Donald men today are not the "seed" of Somerled or Colla. (I know the real history of "clans".) My main interests are finding which Western Isle we came from, what clan, my genetic trail. I'm very interested in Macdonnell history. MARTIN. : "Scottish: Anglicised form of Gaelic Mac Mhàrtainn or Mac Mhàrtuinn, formerly Mac Gille Mhàrtainn, a patronymic from a personal name meaning 'servant of (Saint'. Martins are numerous on Skye, (as are the McDonalds/Dhomnaill and McIvors/Iomhar), & Martins were actually a sept of the Donalds there. From Martin Martin's 1695 book§, it says "Martin's father Donald Martin, son of Gille-Mhàrtainn, son of Aonghas na Gaoithe, soldiered with the MacDonalds of Sleat under the Duke of Montrose." It adds, "He married Mary (Mairi), the daughter of Alasdair, brother of the Chief 'Domhall (Donald/Donnell) Gorm Og' of Sleat (on Skye). § Martin Martin "was, therefore, a cousin to the (Donald) clan chiefs of his day". I did further research & found that this Mary's grandmother was also called Mary (& Margaret) & was a 'Macdonnell' from Ireland of The (Antrim) Glens and she was married to Skye MacDonald chief, Archibald Cleirich MacDonald, C1575. (not the earlier Iain Mhoir, Tanis! ter of Islay/Kintyre/Antrim and heiress Marjory Bissett of The Glens.) These distant close "connections" between Martins and "Macdonnells" is very interesting, including that on page 5 it says that Martin Martin was a "Governor" (tutor) to Chief Dòmhnall a' Chogaidh of the Sleat (MacDonald) clan from 1681 to 1686. It's intriguing, but no conclusions should be made from the above at this stage, if ever. My 'Y'-DNA genetic journey is likely : - Iceland/Norway->Hebrides (Skye?)->Antrim->Tennekille->Dublin->Australia. As noted above, my GGGGrandfather William ("Icelandic/Norse-Scot") married a MCIVOR (also Norse Hebridean, Iomhar) and I see that various stats show McIvors as predominately from Isle of Skye. (McIvers mainly from Islay/Kintyre - right?). If any MacDonnell or McIvor has done research, which has a William MacDonnell circa years above, I would really appreciate your checking your tree to see if there is a Macdonnell (M'Donnell) marriage recorded to Catherine McIvor - or any links as mentioned in above 'clues'. Or any thoughts of where! to go next? (Dublin 1921 civil riot destroyed relevant records prior c.1800.) I guess I'm also looking for any comment or points anyone could add to my research/"case" - even general, viz :- "It's looking that around 1200 AD, Mr Jody Martin, USA, and my (common) male ancestor probably was from Skye. Its around that time that surnames were adopted :- "Since surnames did not become common practice in Britain until after the 12th century, two things must be true:- (1) The linguistic origin of the surname reflects the time and place where the surname was acquired, not necessarily the "deep ancestry" of who acquired it; (2) Since lineages precede surnames, the two cannot be identical. "Many persons of different lineages may have acquired the same surname, and many persons of the same lineage may have acquired different surnames". OR Taking into consideration that the Martins on Skye were a Sept of the Sleat MacDonalds (with later Macdonnell 'connection'), then history shows :- "There are several possible types of non-paternal event in addition to a p! regnancy gained outside of a marriage. For example, a (Martin) child may be adopted and given the Macdonnell name; a (Martin) man may take the Macdonnell name when he marries a Macdonnell daughter; a Macdonnell man may marry a pregnant woman whose (Martin) husband has died; a ('Martin') couple where the wife is the Macdonnell may choose to give their children the Macdonnell name for various reasons; clerical error in recording administrative data may assign a Macdonnell name to the wrong (Martin) person, and so on." (or vice-versa). THANK YOU ...Ian Ross Macdonnell, (Melbourne, Australia). PS : see http://www.clandonald.org.uk/cdm00/cdm00a11.htm - With tongue firmly in cheek, I have selected some extracts from Martin Martin's 'A Description of the Western Highlands of Scotland', written circa 1695 for readers considering joining the Chiefs' Hosted Tour of Skye and Uist in 2006 . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- § Martin Martin : 'A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland"; circa 1695; p. 4,5.

PS: I have just scanned the list again on the e-mail address you included. I was looking at another version last evening and #29230 was there. It seems there are 9 matching, but most do not give names. Cerise's is #29051. D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald" <wombat@ecarthage.com> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Cameron > Delphine, have you put your Cameron DNA on the Cameron site? > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/cameron/ > Ours is there, #37986. Sheila in Missouri > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Need to contact the list admin? > Send your email to Scot-DNA-admin@rootsweb.com > Want to post? Send your email to Scot-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Need to unsubscribe for vacation or? > Send your unsubscription request to Scot-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Scot-DNA list is a flame free zone. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 >

Hello Sheila: Mine is not there, but the one to which I connect is #29230 and unfortunately we do not connect with yours.too bad! I would love to find someone. Cerise Blair who is the convenor was looking for someone connected to a Glengarry Cameron. I find I am connected to her line but she does not answer her e-mails. Thanks for being in touch. Delphine in British Columbia, Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald" <wombat@ecarthage.com> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Cameron > Delphine, have you put your Cameron DNA on the Cameron site? > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/cameron/ > Ours is there, #37986. Sheila in Missouri > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > Need to contact the list admin? > Send your email to Scot-DNA-admin@rootsweb.com > Want to post? Send your email to Scot-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Need to unsubscribe for vacation or? > Send your unsubscription request to Scot-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com > Scot-DNA list is a flame free zone. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 >

Delphine, have you put your Cameron DNA on the Cameron site? http://www.familytreedna.com/public/cameron/ Ours is there, #37986. Sheila in Missouri

Dear All: Katherine Borges has announced her own Scottish DNA project. That is fine with me and I wish her and Kenny the best with lots of tests. This status report is to merely advise the status of our "Scottish DNA project" and to correct some misstatements. This Scotland DNA project has always welcomed: A: anyone of Scottish descendant ( not restricted to Clans etc) Many are searching for their Clan or family connections. B: mtDNA samples. ( Charlotte has recently posted an updated database with new MtDNA results to date. C: Any Testing company results. ( Marsha converts the results to they are compatible with the Standard Results so they fit in the database. A brief outline of the Scottish DNA project ....started in March 2002 ( almost 4 years in the making) ! There are 4 components to the total Project. You can select any or all of these items as you wish. There is no requirement for example, to do the DNA testing in our project. We only provide this service as a means to be able to have potential contributors obtain the discounts that are available to all registered Surname and Geographic projects. A: The testing at Family Tree DNA. If you request the DNA kit through our project then I get access to the records. Your records are then compared to the other records and a notice of a match is sent to you automatically. You can also request to join the Scottish DNA project from another project so your records are then compared with the other test results in the Family Tree DNA database. Family Tree is now allowing people to have their results listed in several DNA projects. However, we do not automatically include any of those records in our database until the person submits them to Marsha and also gives us permission to publish them as described in item D below. B: The mailing list as administered by Lauren Boyd. You would join the mailing list in the normal way by sending an email to: SCOT-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com <mailto:SCOT-DNA-L-request@rootsweb.com> with the one word : Subscribe in the body of the message. There is also a wealth of info available in this mailing list archives at www.rootsweb.com <http://www.rootsweb.com> C: The Web site as administered by Charlotte Braun. There are lots of records, genealogy trees, advices, and misc information. The main database is available through this web site. The web site is available by sending a email to Charlotte Broun at: cbroun@primus.com.au <mailto:cbroun@primus.com.au> or to DNACLANS@brigadoon.net D: The "database" as administered by Marsha. There are currently about 1125 results in this database. This is then posted on the private web site for everyone. We do this since it is only accessed by people that identify themselves, and not just the general public ( ala a general web site). There are privacy concerns about having your DNA available to the general public ( insurance companies etc ie non-genealogy groups that have other agendas). There have been suggestions to develop a public web site and code the responses for privacy. I have exchanged data with the Reivers project and others that have secure and private methods to either control access or code the results so it is not just in public domain. There are some very interesting results emerging from several studies underway by serious genetic scientist. These studies will be available sometime in late 2006 from recent correspondence. BTW: I posted my first "guess" at a specific Scottish highland and lowland hapotype in 2003 and it is still shown on the Database. This "guess" was based on some analysis from the early results recieved and some data that had been published by Dr Jim Wilson in his early studies ( including iceland). It will be interesting to see how well it conforms in the in depth analysis of the new results coming out next year. Best Regards John A Hansen jahansen@brigadoon.net

Kenny: This seems really odd to me. This Scotland DNA project has always welcomed: A: anyone of Scottish descendant ( not restricted to Clans etc) B: mtDNA samples. C: Any Testing company results. ( Marsha converts the results to they are compatible with the Standard Results so they fit in the database. So you are basically lobbying for another project in the midst of a DNA project that already performs the same. In addition, this project provides the mailing list, a web site, and the database. Best Regards John A Hansen -----Original Message----- From: Kenny Hedgpeth [mailto:hdpth@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 1:35 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Scotland DNA Project A new Scotland DNA Project has been established this week for all those of direct Y-chromosome and mtDNA line heritage. This project was established for those of Scottish heritage that do NOT qualify for existing clan, surname, or geographical projects. This especially applies to ladies and lasses as a home for their mtDNA results. If your results are with Family Tree DNA, you may add them to the Scotland Project by clicking the "Join" button on your "MyFTDNA" page. The project also welcomes results from other testing companies; results from SMGF are already posted on the project website at: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/scotland/dna.htm ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Have questions about lab cost? Contact the Project Manager, John A. Hansen, directly at dnaclans@brigadoon.net and he will provide a private answer. ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429

A new Scotland DNA Project has been established this week for all those of direct Y-chromosome and mtDNA line heritage. This project was established for those of Scottish heritage that do NOT qualify for existing clan, surname, or geographical projects. This especially applies to ladies and lasses as a home for their mtDNA results. If your results are with Family Tree DNA, you may add them to the Scotland Project by clicking the "Join" button on your "MyFTDNA" page. The project also welcomes results from other testing companies; results from SMGF are already posted on the project website at: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/scotland/dna.htm

Hello: I am a new lister searching for a related Cameron through DNA information found in the published USA tests. I am searching for the male relative of David McColl CAMERON (1910-1968) b Paisley Scotland. He is related to about 8 other Camerons who have been tested . Only in 2002 did I discover anything about this family, and now have a considerable amount relating to one Charles CAMERON b Inverness-shire, Scotland , 1783. He served with the 26th of Foots, Cameronian Regiment , having enlisted at Quebec in 1790. On discharge in 1800 he travelled to Village of York (now Toronto, Ontario, Canada) and upon reaching the age of majority received a grant of Land in Home District (now Peel County, Ontario. He died in 1867. This information on the DNA records shows data resulting from a son born 1812 whose son in turn migrated to California after 1900. The parent of the above Charles is shown to have been born 1760 and as name,Donald. I wish to confirm this information. Up until recently the prevailing info was James, probably because of the Scottish naming pattern. If anyone knows of this person related to David McColl CAMERON I would be thrilled to hear. Other stories to be told and heard I am sure. My connection is through Participant # 29230 of the DNA study in which he has participated. His ancestor lived in Paisley, Scotland. Perhaps he could be in the USA now. I am Canadian. Thank you for any interest. Delphine Large (Cameron)

Hello, I am new to this List so will keep it short till I see what you are about. Family history is my hobby especially since retirement. My CRAWFORDs are from between Kilmarnock and Irvine. My gg-grandfather, ROBERT b 1796 m JANET DICKIE 1820. They came to USA in 1831 with six children and the seventh born just after they arrived here in June. They settled in Michigan and were very successful farmers. My grandfather was first in my Crawford line to be born in USA. Since he married a SPENCER I think that made him half Scottish and half English. My CRAWFORD ggg-grandparents were JOHN CRAWFORD b abt 1760 and HELEN BONE married 22 July 1796 at Kilwinning Parish. As far as I know they did not come to USA. Recently I sent DNA sample and received report from lab in Texas and did not match twenty-some other CRAUFURDs in their files. I would like to find a match in Scotland, or at least a match with one of the many CRAWFORD or CRAUFURD branches coming from where the name originated in Lanarkshire. I live in North Canton, Ohio, retired seventeen years. Guess I would like to know what the Lists objectives are? Regards to all, Roy

I am also new to this list. My YDNA matched with the Scots to a very large degree and I'm still learning how to use all of this new information. My lineage on my mother's side is Murdick (Murdock?), McAtee, McCulloch and Rowe. The Rowe family is from SW United Kingdom, as in Corwall and Devon. The Murdicks, McAtees and McCulloch are Scots. Some may have come from the Plantations in Northern Ireland, but they remained Scot. I do not see any Crawfords or Spencers in my line. If anything crops up I'll get back in touch with you. By the way I'm part of the Roberts Surname Project of familytreedna. Ken Roberts -----Original Message----- From: Roy Crawford [mailto:rbcrawford@mylifeline.net] Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:25 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] Family Hello, I am new to this List so will keep it short till I see what you are about. Family history is my hobby especially since retirement. My CRAWFORDs are from between Kilmarnock and Irvine. My gg-grandfather, ROBERT b 1796 m JANET DICKIE 1820. They came to USA in 1831 with six children and the seventh born just after they arrived here in June. They settled in Michigan and were very successful farmers. My grandfather was first in my Crawford line to be born in USA. Since he married a SPENCER I think that made him half Scottish and half English. My CRAWFORD ggg-grandparents were JOHN CRAWFORD b abt 1760 and HELEN BONE married 22 July 1796 at Kilwinning Parish. As far as I know they did not come to USA. Recently I sent DNA sample and received report from lab in Texas and did not match twenty-some other CRAUFURDs in their files. I would like to find a match in Scotland, or at least a match with one of the many CRAWFORD or CRAUFURD branches coming from where the name originated in Lanarkshire. I live in North Canton, Ohio, retired seventeen years. Guess I would like to know what the Lists objectives are? Regards to all, Roy ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== Have questions about lab cost? Contact the Project Manager, John A. Hansen, directly at dnaclans@brigadoon.net and he will provide a private answer. ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Dear All: Family Tree is offering some holiday gift coupons for DNA tests. Please see www.familytreedna.com for details or contact me. I've also posted the complete details on the web site at www.myfamily.com Best Regards John A Hansen

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=2279822005 Last veteran of World War One dies at 109 FRANK URQUHART Key points • Tributes paid to Alfred Anderson, WW1 veteran and Scotland’s oldest man • Veteran saw Christmas truce when German and UK soldiers played football • Mr Anderson awarded Légion d’Honnuer by France for service in war Key quote "He was our last surviving link with a time that shimmers on the edge of our folk memory. There was something old worldly about him - he was honourable, dignified and had a tremendously droll sense of humour. He always stood erect and was always immaculately turned out. We will not see his likes again" - Neil Griffiths, Royal British Legion of Scotland spokesman Story in full SCOTLAND'S last surviving veteran of the First World War, and the country's oldest man, died peacefully at a nursing home yesterday aged 109 - severing the last tangible link between the nation and the 690,235 Scots who served in the Great War. Alfred Anderson was the last of the "Old Contemptibles" - the British expeditionary force which went to war in 1914 - and the last surviving witness of the historic Christmas truce when opposing troops declared a brief and unofficial ceasefire to play football and share drinks and cigarettes in the hell of no man's land. Mr Anderson served with the 5th Battalion the Black Watch until he was wounded by shrapnel in 1916. Yesterday, members of his former regiment, Jack McConnell, the First Minister, and the Royal British Legion joined in paying tribute to the "dignified and unassuming" hero of the war that was supposed to end all wars. Mr Anderson, born in Dundee in 1896 when Queen Victoria was still on the throne, had followed in his father's footsteps as a joiner in the Angus village of Newtyle and was only 16 when he enlisted in the Territorial Army in 1912. Two years later he was among the first soldiers called to duty when his battalion was sent to France - derided by the Kaiser as "that contemptible little army". He first went into action on 13 November, 1914, and served for almost two years, almost without respite, in the horror of the Western Front. He was briefly the batman to Captain Fergus Bowes-Lyon, the brother of the Queen Mother, who was killed at the Battle of Loos in 1915. Mr Anderson was also a witness to the remarkable truce on the Western Front on Christmas Day 1914, when British and German troops left their trenches to exchange cigarettes, sing carols and celebrate a brief armistice. At the time of the truce, Mr Anderson's platoon had been briefly sent back a short distance from the front line. He later recalled: "There was not a sound to be heard for a while - nothing. And then we heard some cheering. This had been the two sides fraternising, I think. Some of the boys came back from the front line and told us in the billets what was happening. Then it became the usual thing. The silence ended early in the afternoon and the killing started again. It was a short peace in a terrible war." His active service ended in the spring of 1916, when he was wounded in the neck by a piece of shrapnel from a shell burst which killed several of his comrades. He was invalided back to England. There he served as an instructor with the army, rising to the rank of staff sergeant before the war ended. During his time at a training camp in Rippon he married a local girl, Susanna Iddison. The couple returned to Scotland, where Mr Anderson went back to work as a joiner in his father's Newtyle business. During the Second World War Mr Anderson took command of the local detachment of the Home Guard and, after peace was declared, he became chairman of the local branch of the Royal British Legion. Following his wife's death in 1979 he left his home in Newtyle to live in Alyth, close to his youngest daughter. One of the proudest moments of his life came in 1998 when, together with several other veterans, he received the Légion d'Honneur, France's highest military honour, to mark his service in the First World War. Mr Anderson continued to live independently at his home in Alyth until only six weeks ago when, as the result of failing health, he returned to Newtyle as a resident of the Mundamalla Nursing Home. He died in the early hours of yesterday morning. He had been too frail to take part in this month's Armistice Day commemorations but said he would still be remembering his fallen comrades, as he had every day of his life. He said: "I'm the last man standing - the last surviving Scottish soldier from the Great War. It's up to me to remember all those who have gone before." Jack McConnell, the First Minister, yesterday led tributes to the old soldier. He said: "Alfred Anderson represented the generation of young Scots who fought in the First World War, and endured unimaginable horrors. Many of them made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and we must never forget what they have given to us." Colonel Roddie Riddell, the regimental secretary of the Black Watch, told The Scotsman: "This is a sad moment in history. It is the end of an era." Neil Griffiths, a spokesman for the Royal British Legion of Scotland, said: "He was our last surviving link with a time that shimmers on the edge of our folk memory. There was something old worldly about him - he was honourable, dignified and had a tremendously droll sense of humour. He always stood erect and was always immaculately turned out. We will not see his likes again." Mr Anderson is survived by two daughters and two sons, ten grandchildren, 18 great-grandchildren, and two great-great grandchildren.

Dear Stuart: Well.... I don't know about looking for love in all the wrong places ( wasn't that a country western song :-)..... but you and Ian should start calling each other "cousin ". The question now is to compare your paper trails and ancestry reports. Good Luck and Happy Hunting John A Hansen -----Original Message----- From: Stuart and Doreen Brown [mailto:studor.brown@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:49 PM To: jahansen@brigadoon.net Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] How far back Hi John: I just happened to open the message that you had sent to Steve and was amazed at the closeness of the DNA of S5 Ian Alexander Sinclair to my own DNA. There were 4 1 marker differences. Does this mean that I have probably been looking in the wrong place for contacts? I am Haplogroup R1b. The following is my DNA test results as done by Family Tree DNA 393 13 390 24 19 14 391 10 385a 11 385b 15 426 12 388 12 439 12 389-1 13 392 13 389-2 29 458 19 459a 9 459b 10 455 11 454 11 447 25 437 15 448 19 449 30 464a 13 464b 15 464c 16 464d 17 460 11 GATA H4 10 YCA IIa 19 YCA IIb 23 456 16 607 15 576 19 570 18 CDYa 36 CDYb 37 442 12 438 12 The closest I have found have been the Livingstone - Boggs families and Munroe families. I would appreciate any suggestions or explanations that you can offer to help me find my ancestors. As far as I know my immediate ancestors came from Scotland where my Dad and Grandfather were born. My Dad, Peter Donabie Brown was born 29 June 1880 in Glasgow. Stuart Livingstone Brown - Cornwallis Nova Scotia Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A Hansen" <jahansen@brigadoon.net> To: <SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [SCOT-DNA] How far back > > Steve: > > There are better qualified people on this list... but IMHO > there are several guidelines that are valid: > a: The main issue is the question of mutation rates and at > which marker ( allele). There are some markers that are > proven to mutate at almost twice the standard rate. The > standard rate is about .002 for most. If you take a rate of > .0023 to .004 then you get a "normal" mutation at about > 250 years. That can account for a difference of 2 or even > 3 steps in your case of 1400 years. There is also a question > of the direction of the mutation. Taking a case of one allele > mutating down the scale ( 12> 11) and another 300 years > then goes up ( 11>12). So your test results on that marker > could vary from none to 2. > > b: I usually prefer to use a "sum of the squares" method. > So if you take marker # 1 = 1 steps , Marker # 2 = 2 steps > Then you would square Marker # 2 = 4 and the sum = 5. > In your case above that would still be within bounds of saying > that there is a potential relationship. The probability tables > would define that potential for you ( especially if this is a > 37 marker test results. > > Sounds like a really interesting project with the combination > of genealogy records and an active DNA group engaged. > > Best Regards > John A Hansen > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: steve@planetcentral.com [mailto:steve@planetcentral.com] > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:23 AM > To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [SCOT-DNA] How far back > > > Hi John and all, > > I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to > about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events > during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. > > We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or > more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. > > According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're > not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems > suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is > as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances > of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more > difficult for us. > > For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ > Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting > anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > > > > > ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== > AOL users are advised to join the AOLers-Rootsweb list: > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/RootsWeb_Support/AOLers-RootsWeb.html > > ============================== > Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

Steve: There are better qualified people on this list... but IMHO there are several guidelines that are valid: a: The main issue is the question of mutation rates and at which marker ( allele). There are some markers that are proven to mutate at almost twice the standard rate. The standard rate is about .002 for most. If you take a rate of .0023 to .004 then you get a "normal" mutation at about 250 years. That can account for a difference of 2 or even 3 steps in your case of 1400 years. There is also a question of the direction of the mutation. Taking a case of one allele mutating down the scale ( 12> 11) and another 300 years then goes up ( 11>12). So your test results on that marker could vary from none to 2. b: I usually prefer to use a "sum of the squares" method. So if you take marker # 1 = 1 steps , Marker # 2 = 2 steps Then you would square Marker # 2 = 4 and the sum = 5. In your case above that would still be within bounds of saying that there is a potential relationship. The probability tables would define that potential for you ( especially if this is a 37 marker test results. Sounds like a really interesting project with the combination of genealogy records and an active DNA group engaged. Best Regards John A Hansen -----Original Message----- From: steve@planetcentral.com [mailto:steve@planetcentral.com] Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 6:23 AM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [SCOT-DNA] How far back Hi John and all, I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more difficult for us. For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com Thanks, Steve ==== SCOT-DNA Mailing List ==== All posts to this list are archived and cannot be edited from: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCOT-DNA/ Please bear this in mind if you are considering posting anything of a sensitive nature re your personal DNA. ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Hi John and all, I have a question - The St. Clairs have good documents research back to about 600 AD in Norway. Naturally, there were some non-paternity events during that 1,400 years, and they're beginning to show up in the results. We have a project going in which 30 people have tested, most with 25 or more markers. About 6 of the participants are in Scotland or Ireland. According to most people I talk with, and the FTDNA site itself, you're not related unless you match with distance of 2 or less. This seems suspect as we go further back in time. I'm wondering if a paper trail is as old as ours, would it not make sense to look for matching at distances of maybe 3 or 4. By the way, we're all R1b, probably making it even more difficult for us. For those who are interested, the project is at www.stclairresearch.com Thanks, Steve

Dear Shirley: Welcome to Scottish Clans DNA web site. You will receive an invitation in a few minutes from the web site with the password and user id. Merely click on the URL and it will take you to the web site. You can change both the user id and password in the utilities section on the web page after your first log in. Thanks for joining and hope you enjoy the information. Best Regards John A Hansen Scottish Clans DNA Project -----Original Message----- From: shirley self [mailto:rikki500@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 2:07 PM To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [SCOT-DNA] Tracking the Scot DNA reports I am sorry, this has nothing to do with your post but I have tried and tried and can't figure out how to get to the page where it lists everyone's dna results so that you can compare yours with others. Could someone please help me? Thanks, Shirley McBride Self John: Our "R320" website is listed below. Three surname variations include descendants from the "Scottish Plains" or "Scot-Irish." Sorry only the Riddick variation has excellent paper documentation (Galloway). Reddoch appears to come from West Lothian areas, Reddick from there and Galloway-Dumfries, Ayrshire and Lanarkshire. Our set of results can be seen at our webpage, Scot ancestry identified: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Reddick%2Dr320/ Our "Haplogroup" for Scottish descendants appears to be "I" and "R1b." Best regards, Richard Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:17:53 -0700 From: "John A Hansen" To: SCOT-DNA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Scottish DNA Outline Dear All: There has been some confusion on the scope of the Scottish DNA project. Here is a brief outline of the Scottish DNA project components. There are 4 components to the total Project: a: The testing at Family Tree DNA. If you requested the DNA kit through our project then I get access to the records. Your records are then compared to the other records and a notice of a match is sent to you automatically. You can also request to join the Scottish DNA project from another project so your records are then compared with the other test results in the Family Tree DNA database. We do not automatically include any of those records in our database until the person submits them to Marsha and gives us permission to publish them. b: The mailing list as administered by Lauren Boyd c: The Web site as administered by Charlotte Braun. Lots of records, genealogy trees, advices, and misc information. d: The "database" as administered by Marsha. This is then posted on the private web site for everyone. We do this since it is only accessed by people we know and not just the general public ( ala a general web site). There has been suggestions to develop a public web site and code the responses for privacy. I have exchanged data with the Reivers project and others that have secure and private methods to either control access or code the results so it is not just in public domain. I'm still looking for some help on the analysis side ( Excel experts) that can run Fluxus or other programs to compare results and establish comparative results. Thanks again to Charlotte, Marsha, and Lauren for all their assistance in their respective administration of the project. Best Regards John A Hansen Scottish DNA Project Manager.