Well, in my particular case, there are at least two matchs to mine, when I say mine, I mean my cousin...in those two cases, people doing paper research years ago decided they were not related to my line...but guess what DNA proved otherwise...so I think that is significant...and yes we have one large group of matches and yes, in one case when the test was extended to 37 markers, he mutated out of that group...but at least now he knows...he's no longer wondering around in the dark, but can focus his research elsewhere... I also have another Baker line and the paper trail connected my ancestor to the wrong father...thanks to the Baker DNA group and I think there are about 150 tests in that group...we found my ancestors correct father...plus that gave me at least two of her siblings...sooooo... check out the Baker DNA site http://www.bakerdna.net/ The problem is lots of old research is just not correct...and the way some connections have been made are pretty shakey at best...not to mention the number of DNA unrelated folks that are trying to prove back to the same ancestor...soooo, I think it's pretty darn good.... So I'd say, unless you've got original documentation and pretty express records, some of that old paper work could well be wrong....:) I rather have a rock solid connection back to the 1700s than to have a shakely connection back to the 1100s...at least I know exactly who my family is....:) Bottom line...DNA can help you...so you should check it out yourself and decide whether or not it's right for you...rather than taking someone elses advise....:) Unless of course you'd just rather not know....:) that's ok too, but some of these old paper trails in years to come are going to go poof... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com> wrote: > > Dear Charlotte, > > We've argued this before Charlotte. This is what most people say when they > are seling DNA testing. But the proof in the pudding is a paper trail. > > Without a family history how does a DNA test tell you anything? It is just a > bunch of numbers. The family history ties the DNA to a particular family. > > Without a paper trail you have nothing. > > You just have a DNA test. > > The paper trail is the final proof. DNA testing without a paper trail with a > family you don't get anywhere. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlotte Coats > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Fw: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > I haven't found this to be true in the Coats DNA project...in fact > this has been a great help to us... > > You start with a 12 marker test and then if need be you go to 25 or > 37...but 12 markers will either match or not match...and with enough > people, you'll match someone....:) I've not found any other matches > with my Coats group, than other Coats' that matched me...exact matches > are best but you can match 11/12 on the 12 marker but anything over > that you are usually considered not a match...or not related... > > The costs are far less than trying to find a paper trail! the costs > of doing paper research today is just horrendous! but with one simple > test at a fraction of the costs compared to chasing a paper trail, you > can usually help to focus your research and if you match others, you > can compare notes... > > I've been at this for quite some time and if I were starting out, I'd > start with the DNA tests and then go from there... > > It has been a tremendous help!! > > Charlotte Coats > Coats DNA Project > http://www.coatsarchive.us > > On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com> wrote: > > > > You need to explain to people you are selling this DNA testing to a little > bit more. > > > > Just doing a 12 marker DNA test does not necessarily connect you to any > kin. > > > > In fact it may connect you to people who are not your kin. > > > > What you need is probably at least 25 and probably a 37 marker test. Most > died in the wool DNA searchers will tell you that a 37 marker test is the > best. > > > > If you go to Genealogy DNA-L and talk with some of the DNA math type > people there they can help maybe without 37 but it is all still relative to > the data base you have accumulated. > > > > In addition you need some one to compare to also. That is you need someone > with a family lineage that is fairly well known and you also need someone > else to compare with in terms of their DNA. If you don't have these two > items you are just another group of people as to yet unidentified. > > > > Now when you have all of this you must might connect to a family that is > kin to you. No guarantee. > > > > I'm not putting down DNA testing at all or the person who put this out. > But when you undertake this testing it is not all simple and it is not all > relative inexpensive. Facts faced help all involved. > > > > The DNA testing companies do not always tell you all the facts in the > case. It is like the Genographic Project, do a 12 marker test and suddenly > find you are kin to half the USA. Then realize more testing and finding > family are the only route to success. > > > > God Bless. > > > > Herb Hendricks > > Retired NASA Physicist > > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> > > 1210 Long Meadow DR > > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > > 434 832 7246 > > Major/Smith/Hendricks > > > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com> > > To: > SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:41 PM > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > > > > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > > Surnames: Hardin > > Classification: Query > > > > Message Board URL: > > > > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585> > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > I am Bill Hardin, the volunteer coordinator of the Harden/Hardin/Harding > yDNA project. yDNA testing can help you connect with other researchers who > share a common ancestor. yDNA is passed along the surname line from father > to son. Females do not possess a y chromosome thus the test is limited to > male participants. However, as long as you can find a male relative with > the surname that you are researching, you could get a sample from him. > Obtaining an yDNA sample is quick, easy and painless. The kit contains two > cotton swabs, which you use to rub the inside of your cheek with. You put > the samples in a test tube and mail them back for analysis. You don't need > to understand the science. The company that conducts the testing and the > volunteer coordinator of your surname project will analyse the results and > link you to other researchers who share the same yDNA (an thus share a > recent common ancestor). The test is also usefull in disproving suspected > pedigrees if! > > your sample does not match with others from that same line. Privacy is > assured. You can read more about this testing at familytreedna dot com. At > that site, you can check to see if a surname project has been started for a > surname that you are researching. I urge all of you to investigate this new > genalogy tool. If your surname happens to be Harden or Hardin or Harding, I > invite you to join our group. > > > > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe: Send message addressed to > SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com> > > For Digest subscription, sent to > SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com> > > In the body of the message, enter only the word - unsubscribe > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429> > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > -- > Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! > > Coats Archive > http://www.coatsarchive.us > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us
Dear Charlotte, What do you do when your DNA shows your old paper trail to be wrong? It is pretty simple you find a better and newer paper trail by doing research and going to some one with a data base that has family members in it. Here is one of a number in our family tree. 1792 Hendricks born in SC. Couldn't find a connect with anyone else. Did the 37 marker DNA test and matched to our Frontier Hendricks group back to 1640. But could not ID which line he was from. He and I continued the search. In Sumner Co., TN he found an Elijah Hendricks in the same county as his Henry Hendricks by doing research. When he ID this Elijah Hendricks I knew from our Frontier Hendricks exactly where he came from in SC. Spartanburg Co., SC son of James Hendricks Jr. Where did this come from our Hendricks Family association Data Base. The man made the connection by doing research and by people having known paper trails and DNA testing. They go together hand and glove. Family histories via research of many people and many data bases and DNA testing put family lineages on solid ground. Without both of them as I said before you're just fooling yourself. Neither stand without the other. Spend a few days at the local library and at the archives and maybe you will find something that will help you. Without this type of research a DNA test alone means very little if you want to know your family history and lineages. You really should join a group like Genealogy DNA-L and read some of their research efforts. Maybe you will get a clue as to how things are really done. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Coats<mailto:coats.genealogy@gmail.com> To: Herbert Hendricks<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com> Cc: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Fw: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing Well, in my particular case, there are at least two matchs to mine, when I say mine, I mean my cousin...in those two cases, people doing paper research years ago decided they were not related to my line...but guess what DNA proved otherwise...so I think that is significant...and yes we have one large group of matches and yes, in one case when the test was extended to 37 markers, he mutated out of that group...but at least now he knows...he's no longer wondering around in the dark, but can focus his research elsewhere... I also have another Baker line and the paper trail connected my ancestor to the wrong father...thanks to the Baker DNA group and I think there are about 150 tests in that group...we found my ancestors correct father...plus that gave me at least two of her siblings...sooooo... check out the Baker DNA site http://www.bakerdna.net/<http://www.bakerdna.net/> The problem is lots of old research is just not correct...and the way some connections have been made are pretty shakey at best...not to mention the number of DNA unrelated folks that are trying to prove back to the same ancestor...soooo, I think it's pretty darn good.... So I'd say, unless you've got original documentation and pretty express records, some of that old paper work could well be wrong....:) I rather have a rock solid connection back to the 1700s than to have a shakely connection back to the 1100s...at least I know exactly who my family is....:) Bottom line...DNA can help you...so you should check it out yourself and decide whether or not it's right for you...rather than taking someone elses advise....:) Unless of course you'd just rather not know....:) that's ok too, but some of these old paper trails in years to come are going to go poof... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > > Dear Charlotte, > > We've argued this before Charlotte. This is what most people say when they > are seling DNA testing. But the proof in the pudding is a paper trail. > > Without a family history how does a DNA test tell you anything? It is just a > bunch of numbers. The family history ties the DNA to a particular family. > > Without a paper trail you have nothing. > > You just have a DNA test. > > The paper trail is the final proof. DNA testing without a paper trail with a > family you don't get anywhere. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlotte Coats > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Fw: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > I haven't found this to be true in the Coats DNA project...in fact > this has been a great help to us... > > You start with a 12 marker test and then if need be you go to 25 or > 37...but 12 markers will either match or not match...and with enough > people, you'll match someone....:) I've not found any other matches > with my Coats group, than other Coats' that matched me...exact matches > are best but you can match 11/12 on the 12 marker but anything over > that you are usually considered not a match...or not related... > > The costs are far less than trying to find a paper trail! the costs > of doing paper research today is just horrendous! but with one simple > test at a fraction of the costs compared to chasing a paper trail, you > can usually help to focus your research and if you match others, you > can compare notes... > > I've been at this for quite some time and if I were starting out, I'd > start with the DNA tests and then go from there... > > It has been a tremendous help!! > > Charlotte Coats > Coats DNA Project > http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> > > On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > > > > You need to explain to people you are selling this DNA testing to a little > bit more. > > > > Just doing a 12 marker DNA test does not necessarily connect you to any > kin. > > > > In fact it may connect you to people who are not your kin. > > > > What you need is probably at least 25 and probably a 37 marker test. Most > died in the wool DNA searchers will tell you that a 37 marker test is the > best. > > > > If you go to Genealogy DNA-L and talk with some of the DNA math type > people there they can help maybe without 37 but it is all still relative to > the data base you have accumulated. > > > > In addition you need some one to compare to also. That is you need someone > with a family lineage that is fairly well known and you also need someone > else to compare with in terms of their DNA. If you don't have these two > items you are just another group of people as to yet unidentified. > > > > Now when you have all of this you must might connect to a family that is > kin to you. No guarantee. > > > > I'm not putting down DNA testing at all or the person who put this out. > But when you undertake this testing it is not all simple and it is not all > relative inexpensive. Facts faced help all involved. > > > > The DNA testing companies do not always tell you all the facts in the > case. It is like the Genographic Project, do a 12 marker test and suddenly > find you are kin to half the USA. Then realize more testing and finding > family are the only route to success. > > > > God Bless. > > > > Herb Hendricks > > Retired NASA Physicist > > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com>> > > 1210 Long Meadow DR > > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > > 434 832 7246 > > Major/Smith/Hendricks > > > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com>> > > To: > SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com>> > > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:41 PM > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > > > > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > > Surnames: Hardin > > Classification: Query > > > > Message Board URL: > > > > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585>> > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > I am Bill Hardin, the volunteer coordinator of the Harden/Hardin/Harding > yDNA project. yDNA testing can help you connect with other researchers who > share a common ancestor. yDNA is passed along the surname line from father > to son. Females do not possess a y chromosome thus the test is limited to > male participants. However, as long as you can find a male relative with > the surname that you are researching, you could get a sample from him. > Obtaining an yDNA sample is quick, easy and painless. The kit contains two > cotton swabs, which you use to rub the inside of your cheek with. You put > the samples in a test tube and mail them back for analysis. You don't need > to understand the science. The company that conducts the testing and the > volunteer coordinator of your surname project will analyse the results and > link you to other researchers who share the same yDNA (an thus share a > recent common ancestor). The test is also usefull in disproving suspected > pedigrees if! > > your sample does not match with others from that same line. Privacy is > assured. You can read more about this testing at familytreedna dot com. At > that site, you can check to see if a surname project has been started for a > surname that you are researching. I urge all of you to investigate this new > genalogy tool. If your surname happens to be Harden or Hardin or Harding, I > invite you to join our group. > > > > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe: Send message addressed to > SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com>> > > For Digest subscription, sent to > SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com>> > > In the body of the message, enter only the word - unsubscribe > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429>> > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx> > > > > > > > -- > Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! > > Coats Archive > http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx> > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/>
Dear Laurens County, SC group: (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! Lisa Bass Montgomery Co., Texas P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~