You have a complete paper trail out of South Carolina???....:) In a perfect world, a solid paper trail and DNA is the only answer...problem is, not everyone has a paper trail much less a solid paper trail...I'd say if enough people started tracing their lines with a paper trail I'd say 90% of the old genealogies would probably be proven wrong or there would be conflicting connections to an ancestor....not to mention the many transcribed records just got the names spelled wrong or the transcriber assumed name spellings rather than transcribing what was actually there... Example...in years gone...there were times when researchers had say a son, but the *father* left a will and that son was not named in the will....so without any indication in the records, it was ASSUMED that the father had left the son out of the will because he already had land and had started a family....and the genealogy was published with the *added* son...now to some folks that published genealogy becomes etched in stone *proof* of the father son relationship...but when you start looking, that may not be the case... The worst case of all: original family settles in one state and county for a number of years...the kids grow up and move....leaving no clues as to where they went....let's say, one Jeremiah moves to MO but there is another Jeremiah in IL ... both claiming to be the son of Charles .... with no indication in Charles' records he has a son named Jeremiah and Charles died intestate....so even with DNA...that one will be tough without a paper trail that connects one of them to Charles other than just pure assumptions.... Then there are the cases where you have several people all named say William or John or James or Charles.... Unfortunately, the costs also of doing a paper trail or lack of records accessible via the web, that's original records via the web...prevents many from really researching their roots...in those cases....DNA is the least expensive alternative, with immediate results and you can continue to try and find documentation...when records are not available researchers have a tendency to just give up and look for something else to do rather than family history research... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com> wrote: > Dear Lisa, > > What you say about DNA proving paternity problems is true. I'm sure some of the 22 groups of Hendricks we have could have this problem. However I don't know who is going to prove it. I know a few have been looking in Y-search for what you say but that is very risky business as only 12 markers are used there at the time and it generally takes 37 markers to really prove family kin. > > If you join Genealogy DNA-L you will find out by reading e-mails why a paper trail along with DNA is very important. While it is true all paper trails are not valid, the ones that are is the only way to know where your kin came from. > > DNA's just matches up people, it does not tell you where you came from except by other data bases with other people who knew where they came from or researchers going into countries and pulling up samples from people who had never left the area. A good example of this is the article in Discover Magazine December 2004 concerning the Hidden History of Man. If anyone wants a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy as Rootsweb-L, the archaic communicator, does not allow attachments that keep their composition readable. > > When you came into the DNA program you were told what? You needed to acquire a data base of people. Why? Because not only did you need DNA test participant but you needed a bunch of family lineages to prove people were kin to each other by real people. Not figments of ones imagination. Those figments of ones imagination are still out there looking for their kin and may never find them. The families that kept good records, the researchers who were honest and diligent with their research provide clues to lead you into the past. You can say burned counties, destroyed records and the like but believe it or not there are trails to be found if you just look. A lot of people look to county records and forget about state government organizations records, not discounting church records. > > For 105 years our Major family in SC had everything wrong back into Virginia. It took time to do it but the trail is completed with actual government type documented records. Those people in the 1930s and 1950s in SC didn't do their home work. In some cases it took more work than in the 1980s because we have so many people who care for their family histories they have abstracted records, collected records, searched old family trunks and made it possible. > > To just set back and make excuses for not being able to do something is an often made truism in Engineering. What it means is that no sooner had one said it could not be done than the thing was done. > > Oh how true this is when you have dedicated people willing to search and find family records. Those who just sit back and complain and throw water on what others do often have to bite the bullet when the truth comes through the door. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa Bass<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com> > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:11 AM > Subject: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC > > > Dear Laurens County, SC group: > > (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) > > I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. > > I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! > Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) > > Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! > > Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. > > On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. > Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. > > Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed > gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. > > Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. > > What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". > And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. > > Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! > > > Lisa Bass > Montgomery Co., Texas > > > P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~ > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx> > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us
I would like to suggest those really interested in finding out what DNA is all about and what is required that they purchase the following Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Xy6YrycBnV&isbn=1594860068&itm=1> Megan Smolenyak, Ann Turner and read it. It is available at B&N for about $14.00 plus tax. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Coats<mailto:coats.genealogy@gmail.com> To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC You have a complete paper trail out of South Carolina???....:) In a perfect world, a solid paper trail and DNA is the only answer...problem is, not everyone has a paper trail much less a solid paper trail...I'd say if enough people started tracing their lines with a paper trail I'd say 90% of the old genealogies would probably be proven wrong or there would be conflicting connections to an ancestor....not to mention the many transcribed records just got the names spelled wrong or the transcriber assumed name spellings rather than transcribing what was actually there... Example...in years gone...there were times when researchers had say a son, but the *father* left a will and that son was not named in the will....so without any indication in the records, it was ASSUMED that the father had left the son out of the will because he already had land and had started a family....and the genealogy was published with the *added* son...now to some folks that published genealogy becomes etched in stone *proof* of the father son relationship...but when you start looking, that may not be the case... The worst case of all: original family settles in one state and county for a number of years...the kids grow up and move....leaving no clues as to where they went....let's say, one Jeremiah moves to MO but there is another Jeremiah in IL ... both claiming to be the son of Charles .... with no indication in Charles' records he has a son named Jeremiah and Charles died intestate....so even with DNA...that one will be tough without a paper trail that connects one of them to Charles other than just pure assumptions.... Then there are the cases where you have several people all named say William or John or James or Charles.... Unfortunately, the costs also of doing a paper trail or lack of records accessible via the web, that's original records via the web...prevents many from really researching their roots...in those cases....DNA is the least expensive alternative, with immediate results and you can continue to try and find documentation...when records are not available researchers have a tendency to just give up and look for something else to do rather than family history research... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > Dear Lisa, > > What you say about DNA proving paternity problems is true. I'm sure some of the 22 groups of Hendricks we have could have this problem. However I don't know who is going to prove it. I know a few have been looking in Y-search for what you say but that is very risky business as only 12 markers are used there at the time and it generally takes 37 markers to really prove family kin. > > If you join Genealogy DNA-L you will find out by reading e-mails why a paper trail along with DNA is very important. While it is true all paper trails are not valid, the ones that are is the only way to know where your kin came from. > > DNA's just matches up people, it does not tell you where you came from except by other data bases with other people who knew where they came from or researchers going into countries and pulling up samples from people who had never left the area. A good example of this is the article in Discover Magazine December 2004 concerning the Hidden History of Man. If anyone wants a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy as Rootsweb-L, the archaic communicator, does not allow attachments that keep their composition readable. > > When you came into the DNA program you were told what? You needed to acquire a data base of people. Why? Because not only did you need DNA test participant but you needed a bunch of family lineages to prove people were kin to each other by real people. Not figments of ones imagination. Those figments of ones imagination are still out there looking for their kin and may never find them. The families that kept good records, the researchers who were honest and diligent with their research provide clues to lead you into the past. You can say burned counties, destroyed records and the like but believe it or not there are trails to be found if you just look. A lot of people look to county records and forget about state government organizations records, not discounting church records. > > For 105 years our Major family in SC had everything wrong back into Virginia. It took time to do it but the trail is completed with actual government type documented records. Those people in the 1930s and 1950s in SC didn't do their home work. In some cases it took more work than in the 1980s because we have so many people who care for their family histories they have abstracted records, collected records, searched old family trunks and made it possible. > > To just set back and make excuses for not being able to do something is an often made truism in Engineering. What it means is that no sooner had one said it could not be done than the thing was done. > > Oh how true this is when you have dedicated people willing to search and find family records. Those who just sit back and complain and throw water on what others do often have to bite the bullet when the truth comes through the door. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com>> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa Bass<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com>> > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:11 AM > Subject: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC > > > Dear Laurens County, SC group: > > (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) > > I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. > > I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! > Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) > > Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! > > Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. > > On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. > Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. > > Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed > gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. > > Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. > > What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". > And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. > > Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! > > > Lisa Bass > Montgomery Co., Texas > > > P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~ > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx>> > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx> > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx>