This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Cemetery Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YeB.2ACI/553 Message Board Post: A transcription of the Garrett Cemetery is now available on the Laurens Co., SC DNA Project website: http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/laurens/dna.htm Surnames in this cemetery include: Garrett Glenn Farmer Bishop

A True DNA Story (A necessary understanding in DNA testing) by Herb Hendricks In 2004 we had a Hendricks Family from old Pendleton District start doing their DNA testing. Our Hendricks DNA Project had taken the advice of the SC Hill and Freeman Family DNA Projects and insisted on all Hendricks DNA participants do a complete 37+ marker test for all Hendricks families. Why was this a necessity? To really prove and separate different family members into groups the Hill and Freeman DNA Groups had found by experience that this was a truth that the Hill and Freeman DNA Project had not implemented in the beginning. When the above Hendricks family had completed their numerous descendants DNA testing they were disappointed as they did not match to any other of the other Hendricks groups. So following up on what is logically suggested in DNA testing, as we are all from a large family of humans that originated commonly back in time, they did a Y-Search. A Y-search is where you can enter your family DNA profile and check to see if you are kin to some other group of people who match to your DNA profile. This was a method to check against someone else being a parent of your family line. Upon doing this the Hendricks family matched 100% to another family line we shall call "Smith" up through his 25 marker test. Some people in life face the fact that this could be a true connection and follow up on the lead. Please note that the "Smith" person was not required to do a 37+ marker test. The person from the "Smith family who had the 100% match to the Hendricks family on the 25 marker test was contacted. He agreed to let the Hendricks family sponsor his 25-37 marker test. A sample was acquired from the "Smith" and sent to the DNA test lab. After waiting in much suspense without knowing the results for over 3 months the tests came back. The 25-37 marker test was quite revealing. The "Smith" person did not match to the Hendricks family as there was a 6 marker distance that showed up in the 25-37 DNA marker test. So what is the consequence? The Hendricks family was put though an ordeal, paid money out of their pocket and was kept in suspense for over 3 months because of the ignorance of the "Smith" Family DNA Group Coordinator. As it turned out this Hendricks group had a unique Hendricks DNA profile but the ignorance of people in the system put them through an unnecessary ordeal. Education on what is necessary to establish truth is often helpful in life. So one who is managing project needs to follow up and do what is right instead of promising people little proof with low marker test. This same story has validity when separating various brother groups within families. So now and then you will see my posts on SC nets where I continue to fight against ignorance in DNA testing. HDH 2/16/2006 God Bless Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>

Sorry if this is a repeat but I am not getting this back to me on my SCLaurnes List email. Thanks Does any one have a Joseph Hodges in Laurens, SC in 1800, 1810 or 1820? I would like to have info on the children of him. Especially Males and ages of them. I am still trying to get any thing on my GG grandfather Leroy H. Hodges, born 1806. We do have him on the Census in the 1830., but, still trying to find him as a child and most of all trying to find his Parents Names. Thanks for any information. Peggy Sue Gaddis

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: YOUNG, BIRD Classification: Obituary Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YeB.2ACI/552 Message Board Post: As a youth growing up in the segregated South, Dr. Robert Young Sr. saw something that would shape the rest of his life. An older woman in dire need of medical attention was denied treatment solely because she was black. She later died. "That moment had a significant impact on my father becoming a doctor," said his son Robert Young Jr., a Michigan Supreme Court justice. "He wanted to make certain that no person was ever denied the proper medical care they were entitled to." Although he faced some roadblocks along the way, Dr. Young achieved his lifelong goal. He received his medical degree and set up a clinic in Detroit, where he was a general family practitioner for more than half a century. Dr. Young died of cancer Monday at Evergreen Nursing Home in Southfield. He was 81. "He was such a powerful role model," his son said. "His was a remarkable story of triumph and determination. He faced so many barriers, yet he achieved so much." Born in Clinton, S.C., Dr. Young served in the Army during World War II in Europe, attaining the rank of sergeant. Afterward, he moved to Detroit and attended what was then Wayne University, where he graduated with honors. Despite his academic record, Dr. Young was denied admission to Wayne Medical School because the school already had its quota of black students, his son said. Undeterred, he was accepted at Still Medical School in Des Moines, Iowa, and graduated with his medical degree. In 1960, he financed and built his own medical clinic on Linwood Avenue in Detroit, where he practiced until his retirement in 1997. "He was the last of a dying breed of physicians who cared for family members from cradle to the grave," his son said. Dr. Young was an early advocate for the creation of Botsford General Hospital in Farmington Hills, lending money so construction could begin. His were among the first patients to be admitted when the facility opened in 1965. "He was the classic family physician," said Gerson Cooper, president and chief executive of Botsford Health Care Continuum. "Everybody loved him -- his patients, the other doctors, nurses and aides." For several years, Dr. Young also served as an adjunct professor of clinical medicine at Michigan State University's Medical School. In addition to his son, survivors include his wife of 56 years, Robbie; another son, Dr. Michael Young; a daughter, Judith Young Bird, and eight grandchildren. A memorial service was held Thursday at Swanson Funeral Home in Detroit. His body was cremated. February 4, 2006, Detroit Free Press

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Hodges Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/YeB.2ACI/551 Message Board Post: Does any one have a Joseph Hodges in Laurens, SC in 1800, 1810 or 1820? I would like to have info on the children of him. Especially Males and ages of them. I am still trying to get any thing on my GG grandfather Leroy H. Hodges, born 1806. We do have him on the Census in the 1830., but, still trying to find him as a child and most of all trying to find his Parents Names. Thanks for any information. Peggy Sue Gaddis

This is David Lee Wigginton's Prince William Wigginton's. John James & Elizabeth Farrow Wigginton's son George & Sisciley Reynolds Wigginton marriage record. thank you, JanGulick

Thank you so very much for these census records. We now have a son's name to pursue with his line. Fielding & Obediah are two names Pam thought might open up a connection with other Wigginton lines. In checking at the IGS, read where the North Carolina Genealogical society had the research on the Wadington line so ruled out our George Wigginton birth of son George as who was next to Joseph Wigington's son Obediah in Northumberland? County, Virginia. Our George & Elizabeth Wigginton's son Fielden, born July 26, 1776 married Milly Dempsey Martin & Nancy Wigginton's son Fielding born Alabama 1825 (continuing the name) William & Elizabeth Benson Wigginton's son Fielden born July 26, 1778, Virginia (Peter & Winnefred Eaves Wigginton's line) Roger & Elizabeth Wigginton's son Fielding married Teresa Smith born 1/11/1800 JanGulick

here is the rest of the census workup on Fielding Wiggington 1840 DEKALB CO., GA CENSUS WIGGINGTON, FIELDEN 1000001 1000101 1850 DEKALB CO., GA CENSUS WIGGINGTON, F. W M 75 VA , JONAH W M 47 SC leigh

Jan - regular 1810 feeral census if i remember right the columns are < 10 10 - 5 16 - 25 26 - 45 > 45 Fielding's wife Milly was alive in 1826 but i have no further info who were Fielding's parents? where did his descendants go? i also have a George Wiggington who married Sisley Reynolds Dec 22 1788 according to Marriage index for MD VA NC leigh

Yes and thanks for replying. What would have been the most likely occupations i the lower part of the county as in his pension files he had stated while serving in the war he was engage in no civil endeavors. JanGulick

Pam Wigington had the 1820 & 1830 Census but we are short on records of Fielding . thank you for the 1810 Greenville County census and would so appreciate a breakdown of the ages of everyone in the 1810 census. Is this a census that actually started in 1800 and wasn't complete until 1810 ? Thank you, Jangulick

i have a Fielding Wiggington in my research. b. 17770-1780 married Milly Dempsey in Spartanburg Co., SC he appears on the following census: 1810 Gvlle County Census F? Wigington 00010/00201,0,0 (1800 #219?) 1830 Spartanburg Co., Census WIGGINGTON, FIELDING 00000001 00000011 1 male 50 - 60 1 female 40 - 50 1 female 50 - 60 leigh

I suppose that you know that there was a George Wigginton in the 1790 Laurens Co. census. He probably lived in the lower part of the county. No other Wigginton in my notes. Richard Lorenz ----- Original Message ----- From: <JanGulick@aol.com> To: <SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:08 AM Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Hodges Family rerply > The Wigginton family researchers has also spent some time checking Hodges > information. Mary Buttall married Nathaniel Hodges and had sons, Joseph, > Jory, > Nathaniel,Valentine, Frances(male?). > Mary would be Randall Samuel and Mary Woods Buttall 's daughter. We > haven't > been able to find exact occupation/information on which line of Thomas & > Sarah Buttall Wigginton and Nathaniel & Mary Buttall Hodges were in > Laurens > District. We have Martin Wigginton born in Laurens County, South > Carolina. > > John McMichael was listed as Distiller located in Camden District of south > Carolina and the Woods family were sugar distillers. > > Do you show any connections with this John McMichael and the Hodges > family? > Do you have more on the Hodges family and Hodges Gap? > > JanGulick > > > > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >

The Wigginton family researchers has also spent some time checking Hodges information. Mary Buttall married Nathaniel Hodges and had sons, Joseph, Jory, Nathaniel,Valentine, Frances(male?). Mary would be Randall Samuel and Mary Woods Buttall 's daughter. We haven't been able to find exact occupation/information on which line of Thomas & Sarah Buttall Wigginton and Nathaniel & Mary Buttall Hodges were in Laurens District. We have Martin Wigginton born in Laurens County, South Carolina. John McMichael was listed as Distiller located in Camden District of south Carolina and the Woods family were sugar distillers. Do you show any connections with this John McMichael and the Hodges family? Do you have more on the Hodges family and Hodges Gap? JanGulick

I would like to suggest those really interested in finding out what DNA is all about and what is required that they purchase the following Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Xy6YrycBnV&isbn=1594860068&itm=1> Megan Smolenyak, Ann Turner and read it. It is available at B&N for about $14.00 plus tax. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Coats<mailto:coats.genealogy@gmail.com> To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC You have a complete paper trail out of South Carolina???....:) In a perfect world, a solid paper trail and DNA is the only answer...problem is, not everyone has a paper trail much less a solid paper trail...I'd say if enough people started tracing their lines with a paper trail I'd say 90% of the old genealogies would probably be proven wrong or there would be conflicting connections to an ancestor....not to mention the many transcribed records just got the names spelled wrong or the transcriber assumed name spellings rather than transcribing what was actually there... Example...in years gone...there were times when researchers had say a son, but the *father* left a will and that son was not named in the will....so without any indication in the records, it was ASSUMED that the father had left the son out of the will because he already had land and had started a family....and the genealogy was published with the *added* son...now to some folks that published genealogy becomes etched in stone *proof* of the father son relationship...but when you start looking, that may not be the case... The worst case of all: original family settles in one state and county for a number of years...the kids grow up and move....leaving no clues as to where they went....let's say, one Jeremiah moves to MO but there is another Jeremiah in IL ... both claiming to be the son of Charles .... with no indication in Charles' records he has a son named Jeremiah and Charles died intestate....so even with DNA...that one will be tough without a paper trail that connects one of them to Charles other than just pure assumptions.... Then there are the cases where you have several people all named say William or John or James or Charles.... Unfortunately, the costs also of doing a paper trail or lack of records accessible via the web, that's original records via the web...prevents many from really researching their roots...in those cases....DNA is the least expensive alternative, with immediate results and you can continue to try and find documentation...when records are not available researchers have a tendency to just give up and look for something else to do rather than family history research... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > Dear Lisa, > > What you say about DNA proving paternity problems is true. I'm sure some of the 22 groups of Hendricks we have could have this problem. However I don't know who is going to prove it. I know a few have been looking in Y-search for what you say but that is very risky business as only 12 markers are used there at the time and it generally takes 37 markers to really prove family kin. > > If you join Genealogy DNA-L you will find out by reading e-mails why a paper trail along with DNA is very important. While it is true all paper trails are not valid, the ones that are is the only way to know where your kin came from. > > DNA's just matches up people, it does not tell you where you came from except by other data bases with other people who knew where they came from or researchers going into countries and pulling up samples from people who had never left the area. A good example of this is the article in Discover Magazine December 2004 concerning the Hidden History of Man. If anyone wants a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy as Rootsweb-L, the archaic communicator, does not allow attachments that keep their composition readable. > > When you came into the DNA program you were told what? You needed to acquire a data base of people. Why? Because not only did you need DNA test participant but you needed a bunch of family lineages to prove people were kin to each other by real people. Not figments of ones imagination. Those figments of ones imagination are still out there looking for their kin and may never find them. The families that kept good records, the researchers who were honest and diligent with their research provide clues to lead you into the past. You can say burned counties, destroyed records and the like but believe it or not there are trails to be found if you just look. A lot of people look to county records and forget about state government organizations records, not discounting church records. > > For 105 years our Major family in SC had everything wrong back into Virginia. It took time to do it but the trail is completed with actual government type documented records. Those people in the 1930s and 1950s in SC didn't do their home work. In some cases it took more work than in the 1980s because we have so many people who care for their family histories they have abstracted records, collected records, searched old family trunks and made it possible. > > To just set back and make excuses for not being able to do something is an often made truism in Engineering. What it means is that no sooner had one said it could not be done than the thing was done. > > Oh how true this is when you have dedicated people willing to search and find family records. Those who just sit back and complain and throw water on what others do often have to bite the bullet when the truth comes through the door. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com>> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa Bass<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com>> > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:11 AM > Subject: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC > > > Dear Laurens County, SC group: > > (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) > > I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. > > I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! > Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) > > Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! > > Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. > > On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. > Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. > > Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed > gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. > > Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. > > What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". > And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. > > Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! > > > Lisa Bass > Montgomery Co., Texas > > > P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~ > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx>> > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx> > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx>

You have a complete paper trail out of South Carolina???....:) In a perfect world, a solid paper trail and DNA is the only answer...problem is, not everyone has a paper trail much less a solid paper trail...I'd say if enough people started tracing their lines with a paper trail I'd say 90% of the old genealogies would probably be proven wrong or there would be conflicting connections to an ancestor....not to mention the many transcribed records just got the names spelled wrong or the transcriber assumed name spellings rather than transcribing what was actually there... Example...in years gone...there were times when researchers had say a son, but the *father* left a will and that son was not named in the will....so without any indication in the records, it was ASSUMED that the father had left the son out of the will because he already had land and had started a family....and the genealogy was published with the *added* son...now to some folks that published genealogy becomes etched in stone *proof* of the father son relationship...but when you start looking, that may not be the case... The worst case of all: original family settles in one state and county for a number of years...the kids grow up and move....leaving no clues as to where they went....let's say, one Jeremiah moves to MO but there is another Jeremiah in IL ... both claiming to be the son of Charles .... with no indication in Charles' records he has a son named Jeremiah and Charles died intestate....so even with DNA...that one will be tough without a paper trail that connects one of them to Charles other than just pure assumptions.... Then there are the cases where you have several people all named say William or John or James or Charles.... Unfortunately, the costs also of doing a paper trail or lack of records accessible via the web, that's original records via the web...prevents many from really researching their roots...in those cases....DNA is the least expensive alternative, with immediate results and you can continue to try and find documentation...when records are not available researchers have a tendency to just give up and look for something else to do rather than family history research... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com> wrote: > Dear Lisa, > > What you say about DNA proving paternity problems is true. I'm sure some of the 22 groups of Hendricks we have could have this problem. However I don't know who is going to prove it. I know a few have been looking in Y-search for what you say but that is very risky business as only 12 markers are used there at the time and it generally takes 37 markers to really prove family kin. > > If you join Genealogy DNA-L you will find out by reading e-mails why a paper trail along with DNA is very important. While it is true all paper trails are not valid, the ones that are is the only way to know where your kin came from. > > DNA's just matches up people, it does not tell you where you came from except by other data bases with other people who knew where they came from or researchers going into countries and pulling up samples from people who had never left the area. A good example of this is the article in Discover Magazine December 2004 concerning the Hidden History of Man. If anyone wants a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy as Rootsweb-L, the archaic communicator, does not allow attachments that keep their composition readable. > > When you came into the DNA program you were told what? You needed to acquire a data base of people. Why? Because not only did you need DNA test participant but you needed a bunch of family lineages to prove people were kin to each other by real people. Not figments of ones imagination. Those figments of ones imagination are still out there looking for their kin and may never find them. The families that kept good records, the researchers who were honest and diligent with their research provide clues to lead you into the past. You can say burned counties, destroyed records and the like but believe it or not there are trails to be found if you just look. A lot of people look to county records and forget about state government organizations records, not discounting church records. > > For 105 years our Major family in SC had everything wrong back into Virginia. It took time to do it but the trail is completed with actual government type documented records. Those people in the 1930s and 1950s in SC didn't do their home work. In some cases it took more work than in the 1980s because we have so many people who care for their family histories they have abstracted records, collected records, searched old family trunks and made it possible. > > To just set back and make excuses for not being able to do something is an often made truism in Engineering. What it means is that no sooner had one said it could not be done than the thing was done. > > Oh how true this is when you have dedicated people willing to search and find family records. Those who just sit back and complain and throw water on what others do often have to bite the bullet when the truth comes through the door. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa Bass<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com> > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:11 AM > Subject: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC > > > Dear Laurens County, SC group: > > (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) > > I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. > > I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! > Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) > > Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! > > Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. > > On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. > Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. > > Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed > gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. > > Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. > > What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". > And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. > > Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! > > > Lisa Bass > Montgomery Co., Texas > > > P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~ > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx> > > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us

I would like to suggest those really interested in finding out what DNA is all about and what is required that they purchase the following Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Xy6YrycBnV&isbn=1594860068&itm=1> Megan Smolenyak, Ann Turner and read it. It is available at B&N for about $14.00 plus tax. God Bless. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>

Dear Lisa, What you say about DNA proving paternity problems is true. I'm sure some of the 22 groups of Hendricks we have could have this problem. However I don't know who is going to prove it. I know a few have been looking in Y-search for what you say but that is very risky business as only 12 markers are used there at the time and it generally takes 37 markers to really prove family kin. If you join Genealogy DNA-L you will find out by reading e-mails why a paper trail along with DNA is very important. While it is true all paper trails are not valid, the ones that are is the only way to know where your kin came from. DNA's just matches up people, it does not tell you where you came from except by other data bases with other people who knew where they came from or researchers going into countries and pulling up samples from people who had never left the area. A good example of this is the article in Discover Magazine December 2004 concerning the Hidden History of Man. If anyone wants a copy e-mail me and I will send you a copy as Rootsweb-L, the archaic communicator, does not allow attachments that keep their composition readable. When you came into the DNA program you were told what? You needed to acquire a data base of people. Why? Because not only did you need DNA test participant but you needed a bunch of family lineages to prove people were kin to each other by real people. Not figments of ones imagination. Those figments of ones imagination are still out there looking for their kin and may never find them. The families that kept good records, the researchers who were honest and diligent with their research provide clues to lead you into the past. You can say burned counties, destroyed records and the like but believe it or not there are trails to be found if you just look. A lot of people look to county records and forget about state government organizations records, not discounting church records. For 105 years our Major family in SC had everything wrong back into Virginia. It took time to do it but the trail is completed with actual government type documented records. Those people in the 1930s and 1950s in SC didn't do their home work. In some cases it took more work than in the 1980s because we have so many people who care for their family histories they have abstracted records, collected records, searched old family trunks and made it possible. To just set back and make excuses for not being able to do something is an often made truism in Engineering. What it means is that no sooner had one said it could not be done than the thing was done. Oh how true this is when you have dedicated people willing to search and find family records. Those who just sit back and complain and throw water on what others do often have to bite the bullet when the truth comes through the door. God Bless. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa Bass<mailto:LisaDTB@msn.com> To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: [SCLAUREN] Re: DNA Testing & my BALL Family from Laurens Co., SC Dear Laurens County, SC group: (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! Lisa Bass Montgomery Co., Texas P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~ ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx>

Dear Laurens County, SC group: (See below this message for my Laurens Co., SC family name) I do hate to jump in on this DNA/paper trail issue (ok, not really~), however, I really would like to express my little thoughts on both issues. Please bear in mind that both DNA testing AND a paper trail "proof" are in the position to be extremely fallible for many researchers. I'm not that familiar with the DNA "markers" and such, however, I am very familiar with what DNA can prove/disprove. Yes, most definitely, a paper trail is very important....vital in fact! Saying that however, many of our earlier ancestors were very poor, illiterate, didn't trust the local government, etc., thus leaving virtually no records except perhaps an "occasional" census record. (Yes, those are some of my particular research obstacles!) Also take into factual account that many (thousands upon thousands) courthouse records have been forever lost due to fires, negligence, wars and other types of disasters. Yes, there are definitely times when a provable paper trail is virtually impossible to follow! Therefore...DNA testing is an excellent alternative. On the other hand....here are a couple of points that I have attempted to make to some of my very reluctant research cousins. Many times in generations past, unrelated "orphans" were often taken into a family, given their last name, and no formal adoption legalities were followed whatsoever. The completely unrelated orphan was raised as an actual family member and, lo & behold, there was never a paper trail left to show this informal adoption. Or perhaps there were actual legal adoption papers but they were lost in a courthouse fire. The final results....no paper trail is left to follow in order to prove that so-and-so was ever adopted. Therefore you, the modern day researcher, will probably "assume" this to be a "natural" child of your ancestor. Another scenerio....what if gr-gr Grandma decided to have a little affair or two (gasp!) and became pregnant by another man? If this occurred, it was likely that gr-gr Grandma allowed gr-gr Grandpa, her hubby, to believe that the baby was his. (Please researchers, don't be so naïve to think that these situations never happened!!!) The results were that no paper trail would ever exist whatsoever because she never allowed the true "father" of the child to be legally recorded. Chances are very great that gr-gr Grandma took the secret to her grave. Only DNA testing can prove something like this scenario might have ever occurred. What I am trying to convey to everyone is....don't be surprised if you are lucky enough to have a provable paper trail and then be suddenly be "floored" when DNA testing shows some "glitches". And visa versa....you have no paper trail but you "swear" grandma had to be correct when she said John Smith was her gr grandpa. Then, DNA testing shows no relationship whatsoever. Whether using paper trails or DNA testing, you may NEVER be able to find out what truly happened in the lives of your ancestors in centuries past~ Brace yourselves! Lisa Bass Montgomery Co., Texas P.S. To keep this message "on board" with the SC Laurens group, I would like to add this little family tidbit. An unknown BALL cousin is doing DNA testing. The testing proves that there is NO relationship to another BALL cousin whose ancestors were also in Laurens, SC. My records have always shown them to be related! Why does DNA testing show otherwise? There is a very good chance that we'll never know~

Dear Charlotte, What do you do when your DNA shows your old paper trail to be wrong? It is pretty simple you find a better and newer paper trail by doing research and going to some one with a data base that has family members in it. Here is one of a number in our family tree. 1792 Hendricks born in SC. Couldn't find a connect with anyone else. Did the 37 marker DNA test and matched to our Frontier Hendricks group back to 1640. But could not ID which line he was from. He and I continued the search. In Sumner Co., TN he found an Elijah Hendricks in the same county as his Henry Hendricks by doing research. When he ID this Elijah Hendricks I knew from our Frontier Hendricks exactly where he came from in SC. Spartanburg Co., SC son of James Hendricks Jr. Where did this come from our Hendricks Family association Data Base. The man made the connection by doing research and by people having known paper trails and DNA testing. They go together hand and glove. Family histories via research of many people and many data bases and DNA testing put family lineages on solid ground. Without both of them as I said before you're just fooling yourself. Neither stand without the other. Spend a few days at the local library and at the archives and maybe you will find something that will help you. Without this type of research a DNA test alone means very little if you want to know your family history and lineages. You really should join a group like Genealogy DNA-L and read some of their research efforts. Maybe you will get a clue as to how things are really done. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Coats<mailto:coats.genealogy@gmail.com> To: Herbert Hendricks<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com> Cc: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Fw: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing Well, in my particular case, there are at least two matchs to mine, when I say mine, I mean my cousin...in those two cases, people doing paper research years ago decided they were not related to my line...but guess what DNA proved otherwise...so I think that is significant...and yes we have one large group of matches and yes, in one case when the test was extended to 37 markers, he mutated out of that group...but at least now he knows...he's no longer wondering around in the dark, but can focus his research elsewhere... I also have another Baker line and the paper trail connected my ancestor to the wrong father...thanks to the Baker DNA group and I think there are about 150 tests in that group...we found my ancestors correct father...plus that gave me at least two of her siblings...sooooo... check out the Baker DNA site http://www.bakerdna.net/<http://www.bakerdna.net/> The problem is lots of old research is just not correct...and the way some connections have been made are pretty shakey at best...not to mention the number of DNA unrelated folks that are trying to prove back to the same ancestor...soooo, I think it's pretty darn good.... So I'd say, unless you've got original documentation and pretty express records, some of that old paper work could well be wrong....:) I rather have a rock solid connection back to the 1700s than to have a shakely connection back to the 1100s...at least I know exactly who my family is....:) Bottom line...DNA can help you...so you should check it out yourself and decide whether or not it's right for you...rather than taking someone elses advise....:) Unless of course you'd just rather not know....:) that's ok too, but some of these old paper trails in years to come are going to go poof... Charlotte On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > > Dear Charlotte, > > We've argued this before Charlotte. This is what most people say when they > are seling DNA testing. But the proof in the pudding is a paper trail. > > Without a family history how does a DNA test tell you anything? It is just a > bunch of numbers. The family history ties the DNA to a particular family. > > Without a paper trail you have nothing. > > You just have a DNA test. > > The paper trail is the final proof. DNA testing without a paper trail with a > family you don't get anywhere. > > God Bless. > Herb Hendricks > Retired NASA Physicist > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> > 1210 Long Meadow DR > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > 434 832 7246 > Major/Smith/Hendricks > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlotte Coats > To: SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCLAUREN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [SCLAUREN] Fw: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > I haven't found this to be true in the Coats DNA project...in fact > this has been a great help to us... > > You start with a 12 marker test and then if need be you go to 25 or > 37...but 12 markers will either match or not match...and with enough > people, you'll match someone....:) I've not found any other matches > with my Coats group, than other Coats' that matched me...exact matches > are best but you can match 11/12 on the 12 marker but anything over > that you are usually considered not a match...or not related... > > The costs are far less than trying to find a paper trail! the costs > of doing paper research today is just horrendous! but with one simple > test at a fraction of the costs compared to chasing a paper trail, you > can usually help to focus your research and if you match others, you > can compare notes... > > I've been at this for quite some time and if I were starting out, I'd > start with the DNA tests and then go from there... > > It has been a tremendous help!! > > Charlotte Coats > Coats DNA Project > http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> > > On 1/28/06, Herbert Hendricks <Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com>> wrote: > > > > You need to explain to people you are selling this DNA testing to a little > bit more. > > > > Just doing a 12 marker DNA test does not necessarily connect you to any > kin. > > > > In fact it may connect you to people who are not your kin. > > > > What you need is probably at least 25 and probably a 37 marker test. Most > died in the wool DNA searchers will tell you that a 37 marker test is the > best. > > > > If you go to Genealogy DNA-L and talk with some of the DNA math type > people there they can help maybe without 37 but it is all still relative to > the data base you have accumulated. > > > > In addition you need some one to compare to also. That is you need someone > with a family lineage that is fairly well known and you also need someone > else to compare with in terms of their DNA. If you don't have these two > items you are just another group of people as to yet unidentified. > > > > Now when you have all of this you must might connect to a family that is > kin to you. No guarantee. > > > > I'm not putting down DNA testing at all or the person who put this out. > But when you undertake this testing it is not all simple and it is not all > relative inexpensive. Facts faced help all involved. > > > > The DNA testing companies do not always tell you all the facts in the > case. It is like the Genographic Project, do a 12 marker test and suddenly > find you are kin to half the USA. Then realize more testing and finding > family are the only route to success. > > > > God Bless. > > > > Herb Hendricks > > Retired NASA Physicist > > Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator > > Secretary Hendricks Family Association > > Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com>> > > 1210 Long Meadow DR > > Lynchburg, VA 24502 > > 434 832 7246 > > Major/Smith/Hendricks > > > http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com<mailto:whardin@carolina.rr.com>> > > To: > SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L@rootsweb.com>> > > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:41 PM > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] yDNA testing > > > > > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > > > Surnames: Hardin > > Classification: Query > > > > Message Board URL: > > > > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585<http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ncB.2ACE/1585>> > > > > Message Board Post: > > > > I am Bill Hardin, the volunteer coordinator of the Harden/Hardin/Harding > yDNA project. yDNA testing can help you connect with other researchers who > share a common ancestor. yDNA is passed along the surname line from father > to son. Females do not possess a y chromosome thus the test is limited to > male participants. However, as long as you can find a male relative with > the surname that you are researching, you could get a sample from him. > Obtaining an yDNA sample is quick, easy and painless. The kit contains two > cotton swabs, which you use to rub the inside of your cheek with. You put > the samples in a test tube and mail them back for analysis. You don't need > to understand the science. The company that conducts the testing and the > volunteer coordinator of your surname project will analyse the results and > link you to other researchers who share the same yDNA (an thus share a > recent common ancestor). The test is also usefull in disproving suspected > pedigrees if! > > your sample does not match with others from that same line. Privacy is > assured. You can read more about this testing at familytreedna dot com. At > that site, you can check to see if a surname project has been started for a > surname that you are researching. I urge all of you to investigate this new > genalogy tool. If your surname happens to be Harden or Hardin or Harding, I > invite you to join our group. > > > > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe: Send message addressed to > SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-L-request@rootsweb.com>> > > For Digest subscription, sent to > SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:SCCOLLET-D-request@rootsweb.com>> > > In the body of the message, enter only the word - unsubscribe > > > > ============================== > > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your > ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn > more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429<http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429>> > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx> > > > > > > > -- > Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! > > Coats Archive > http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/> > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx<http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx> > > -- Always Remember: Without documentation, genealogy is mythology! Coats Archive http://www.coatsarchive.us<http://www.coatsarchive.us/>