Hey Everybody, If anyone on the list lives in Raliegh North Carolina will you please send me a private email! Thanks, Wanda

--WebTV-Mail-9848-1328 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit --WebTV-Mail-9848-1328 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.99) by postoffice-282.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <CR831@aol.com> Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by mailsorter-102-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id QAA04348 for <macfay@webtv.net>; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:49:48 -0700 (PDT) From: CR831@aol.com Received: from CR831@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.21) id 2VBCa24364 (3895) for <macfay@webtv.net>; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19735733.24be7b4f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:46:23 EDT Subject: Re: James McQueen--SC/AL To: macfay@webtv.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 15 In a message dated 7/14/99 6:35:53 PM Central Daylight Time, macfay@webtv.net writes: << rae, youare correct. that was back in May & I was confused. She never did answer anyhow. Did you take your picture yet with the "camera" ? and what about Horry mess ? cuz mac >> Mac: Horry mess is funny. You get volunteers (which these people are of course) and they have their own ideas -- and somebody will eventually clash with somebody else unless the ground rules are set down way ahead of time. This evidently was not done. Who has the copyright is unimportant because almost anybody can look up most of the references and cite them as their own! What we all have to do is share -- and not try to charge each other for exchanging information -- Info exchanged usually constitutes only clues to be verified by other documentation. I've said my piece! Cuzn Rae --WebTV-Mail-9848-1328--

Folks, I have asked Craig to stop misrepresenting the facts yet he persists in doing so. I asked that he address any issues he has with me privately and he has not respected that request. So, to set the record straight, yet again: At 10:17 PM 7/13/99 -0400, Craig Smith wrote: <snipped for brevity> >This is not true...The HCHS maintains that the data from the IRQ's are the >property of the HCHS. Data submitted by others are theirs to do with as they >see fit. The above is contrary to what you told me in May. >><snip> I cannot, and >>absolutely will not, allow anyone to own YOUR data. It is yours to share, >>AND to withdraw, as you see fit. > >This too is not true But it *is* true, Craig. Every piece of data contributed to SCGenWeb is copyrighted to the submitter with all rights reserved. <snip> >This too is not true...example....The 1820 Horry County, SC, Census >A - G Transcribed by Jim Farmer San Francisco, November 1997 It *is* true that most data contributed to the SCGenWeb site no longer reflects the name of the submitter nor an assignment of copyright. Your example is but one piece of the two years' worth of data which Jim generously passed on to the next Horry County coordinator. With few exceptions, the bulk of his website has been absorbed into anonymity. <snip> >Victoria you are the one that changed the return link only to the genweb >site. The board, as you well know, permits a single "return to" link. Since the Queries board was one set up for USGenWeb sites, of course I set it to link to Horry County SCGenWeb. If it becomes possible to create two links, I will gladly provide a link back to the HCHS site. In the meantime, why not create a second link on the HCHS Queries page to both boards with a notice to use the "Back" button on the browser to return to HCHS? >The whole problem with Victoria stems from the copyright of data that has >been published by the Horry County Historical Society. The HCHS will not >grant permission to post this data elsewhere and Victoria cannot accept >that. <snip> Good gracious, Craig, you know that's not true. I certainly accept the wishes of any society or individual to restrict the use and posting of their data, and you know all too well how strongly I feel about respecting copyright. Moreover you know that at no time did I request that any HCHS material be placed on any web site of any kind. The problem with which I was presented was this: you said the HCHS wanted to host the Horry County SCGenWeb site yet you later told me that the HCHS would not allow their material to be posted on ANY "GenWeb" sites. To me that meant you either *weren't* hosting an SCGenWeb county site or you were violating HCHS rules in posting their material to the site. Either way, it posed a serious dilemma for me and though I (and others) tried for weeks to reach a workable solution, you insisted that there was no problem, refused to separate the two sites in any way, refused to "wear two hats". Instead of working to reach a mutually beneficial relationship, you chose your own "solution" which you spelled out on this list: to create a "dummy" page for SCGenWeb with the "absolute minimum requirements" in order to funnel data and point researchers to the HCHS site. You even went so far as to state that you wanted to *use* us for that purpose. Surely it would have been better to have been straightforward with me and said, "Look I've got a problem, I'll have to resign but please ensure that the new Horry County page contains a link to the HCHS." Once again I beseech you, Craig, to cease and desist from posting misrepresentations. If you'd like to work toward clearing up any misunderstandings, please address me privately, but please let's get this off the list. Victoria

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40E52B0C2C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You got my vote!!!!! B.C. --------------40E52B0C2C1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <378C8FFB.5C66@idt.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:26:19 -0400 From: BCAUSE <bcause19@idt.net> Reply-To: bcause19@idt.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCHORRY-L@ Subject: [Fwd: Re: [SCHORRY-L] Query Mystery (Craig & Victoria)] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------68B36F3E4A49" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------68B36F3E4A49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GREAT IDEA!!!!!! B.C. --------------68B36F3E4A49 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by u3.farm.idt.net for bcause19 (with pop daemon (v1.21 1997/08/10) Wed Jul 14 09:23:48 1999) X-From_: SCHORRY-L-request@rootsweb.com Wed Jul 14 09:09:01 1999 Received: from mail-relay3.idt.net (MAIL-RELAY3.IDT.NET [169.132.8.27]) by u3.farm.idt.net (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA02433; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) by mail-relay3.idt.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA25805; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:08:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13837; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907141304.IAA10711@stan.lcc.net> From: "Wilma Thedford" <wthed@tucomm.net> Old-To: <SCHORRY-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [SCHORRY-L] Query Mystery (Craig & Victoria) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:58:49 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <ziIfrC.A.DYD.ktIj3@bl-14.rootsweb.com> To: SCHORRY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: SCHORRY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <SCHORRY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1463 X-Loop: SCHORRY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SCHORRY-L-request@rootsweb.com I second that motion. W.T. ==== SCHORRY Mailing List ==== Web Sites of Horry County Listmembers. 1. Jim Farmer farmer@visa.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jotajota/ 2. Marty Grant martygra@icomnet.com http://www.martygrant.com/ 3. Mike Cooper http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/2544/ 4. Craig Smith craig@cityathletics.com http://www.cityathletics.com 5. Steve and Eileen Worthington <irish1@netins.net> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/5512/ --------------68B36F3E4A49-- --------------40E52B0C2C1--

I second that motion. W.T.

I don't pretend to know what your problems are, but I do know you 'all are messing up a great thing with your bickering. I thought the idea was "finding our roots" not egos & flexing muscles. My faith is shaken again. Go back to doing what you do best !

>There *is* a difference in philosophy between the standards of SCGenWeb >and those expressed by Craig Smith as webmaster for the HCHS. We at >SCGenWeb are committed to preserving the copyright of all data submitted >to any of its county sites to the CONTRIBUTOR. Craig maintains that all >data submitted to HCHS becomes the property of, and is copyrighted to, HCHS. This is not true...The HCHS maintains that the data from the IRQ's are the property of the HCHS. Data submitted by others are theirs to do with as they see fit. >As State Coordinator, I had several discussions with Craig about giving credit >where it was due. Up until he moved all data to the new HCHS site, data >contributed to the site was credited to the submitter. This is no longer true >and it is why the HCHS site cannot be a part of SCGenWeb. I cannot, and >absolutely will not, allow anyone to own YOUR data. It is yours to share, >AND to withdraw, as you see fit. This too is not true >Please show me, if you can, which of the HCHS pages were Jim's. I know, but >do you? Perhaps it doesn't matter to you but it does to me. I believe quite >strongly in doing the right thing and assigning copyright to individuals. This too is not true...example....The 1820 Horry County, SC, Census A - G Transcribed by Jim Farmer San Francisco, November 1997 There is no reason why he could not link to both, if he wished to do so. It would certainly be helpful to all of you if he did, but it is up to him. Victoria you are the one that changed the return link only to the genweb site. The whole problem with Victoria stems from the copyright of data that has been published by the Horry County Historical Society. The HCHS will not grant permission to post this data elsewhere and Victoria cannot accept that. The HCHS started gathering data in 1966 and many of the contributors are now deceased and the HCHS will protect this data. You said, I personally applaud the generosity >of the HCHS is making its data available to Horry County researchers on >the Internet. Very few historical/genealogical societies are willing to share >their resources in this fashion. Their generosity has a few strings attached. Look in any of their publications and you will see it. Craig Smith

There is no "Query Mystery". The GenConnect Queries Forum Board which Craig created was through SCGenWeb. He has not been county coordinator of Horry County since June 5th. I did indeed request that the password for this board be changed since Craig was no longer a county coordinator. The URL was changed to reflect the Orphan County page. Why would it not be? I HAVE NOT HIDDEN ANYTHING, CRAIG, and I am tired of dealing with these misleading and inflammatory posts. I never misled you. I told you straight out that if you only wished to use SCGenWeb to bring researchers to HCHS and put ALL data contributed on the HCHS site with HCHS COPYRIGHT attached, then you could no longer be a county coordinator. I thought that was as straightforward as one could be. You do a splendid job of maintaining a website; please get on with it and stop this game playing. You are wasting everyone's time, including mine. Address me privately and I will do the same. Victoria

There has been a great deal of misunderstanding about resources available to Horry County researchers, and it is time to clarify, as best I can, what has happened and why. First, there is no "war" between SCGenWeb and The Horry County Historical Society. On the contrary, I personally applaud the generosity of the HCHS is making its data available to Horry County researchers on the Internet. Very few historical/genealogical societies are willing to share their resources in this fashion. There *is* a difference in philosophy between the standards of SCGenWeb and those expressed by Craig Smith as webmaster for the HCHS. We at SCGenWeb are committed to preserving the copyright of all data submitted to any of its county sites to the CONTRIBUTOR. Craig maintains that all data submitted to HCHS becomes the property of, and is copyrighted to, HCHS. As State Coordinator, I had several discussions with Craig about giving credit where it was due. Up until he moved all data to the new HCHS site, data contributed to the site was credited to the submitter. This is no longer true and it is why the HCHS site cannot be a part of SCGenWeb. I cannot, and absolutely will not, allow anyone to own YOUR data. It is yours to share, AND to withdraw, as you see fit. As for Lou (?)'s comments that the HCHS site is one of the best, I couldn't agree more. Between the HCHS contributions and your submissions, all Horry County researchers are extremely fortunate. However, the SCGenWeb site is NOT a "knock off" of the HCHS site and we do, and will, search for data to post for Horry researchers. For those of you who are new to the Internet, please bear in mind that the Horry County SCGenWeb site, hosted by Jim Farmer and assisted by Wanda Martin, existed for two years before Craig signed up as the new Horry county coordinator for SCGenWeb. There is no "knock off of the HCHS site"; on the contrary! Some of the material which you now see on HCHS was up on the Net two years ago and was the product of Jim Farmer's labors. Please show me, if you can, which of the HCHS pages were Jim's. I know, but do you? Perhaps it doesn't matter to you but it does to me. I believe quite strongly in doing the right thing and assigning copyright to individuals. There now exists at least two resources for Horry County researchers: the HCHS site and the SCGenWeb site. There are surely countless others. With regard to the Queries Board created for the SCGenWeb site, it is still intact and may be found at: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/SC/Horry Craig has created a second Queries board specificially for the HCHS (allowed by GenConnect), and I believe he maintains a link solely to this new board on the HCHS site. There is no reason why he could not link to both, if he wished to do so. It would certainly be helpful to all of you if he did, but it is up to him. The original source for the HCHS site was created by SCGenWeb volunteers so quit with the "OURS", I beg of you, and go about doing what we are all here to do--genealogy. Use all resources available to you and hope that one of them provides the link you need to carry your family history back one more generation. Wishing you the very best of luck in finding that "missing" ancestor, Victoria Proctor State Coordinator, SCGenWeb

Craig, I guess I'm totally confused here and as we are airing this in public I "think" I must have missed your letter on what was happening to the "working it out" phase of the Horry County Historical Society becoming the Genweb Sponser. You told us they said the site didn't meet the guidelines and I'm wondering "specifically" why the Horry County Society can't meet guidelines it seems so many thousands of counties across the whole continental United States of America have met? I really hate your coming off like it is "us" against them. I would like to remind you that had it not been for the people at Genweb and Rootsweb there would be no Web Site to go to or mailing list to join. Chances are few of us would have met. There kinda like our (as a whole) grandparents. I don't want to take sides..I as much as everyone else appreciate your efforts but lets not go beatin up our grandma. Again, can you tell the list what guidelines (I assume) the Board of Directors of the Historical Society refused to agree to? Wanda

To further explain what has transpired with the queries. Several months ago I created a bbs on the Horry Co. genweb site through rootsweb. At the time a bbs is created a password is given to edit functions of the board. One function you can edit is the return link to a site. Somehow this return link was edited and the return link went to Victoria Proctor's Horry Co. site. If Victoria wasn't the one who requested the change then who did? and why did it go to the site Victoria was doing? Deny publicly you requested the change. Victoria, I did do my homework. You have misled me as well. You told me in the beginning the requirements and I maintained a site that met the minimun requirements as per your website. It was as good as several that you let exist. You just have a beef with me and the people are suffering. You say that you would not take one query away because it may benefit one researcher. But you have hidden all the material on the Historical Society's site. You have not even placed a link to the Historical County's web site. A site I feel is one of the most informative on the web, thanks to the efforts of MANY. Craig Smith

Honestly, with all the work that Craig and Patricia have done, it should have remained the way it was to begin with, I really wish everyone would quit changing this and that, you are confussing us! and we're already confussed enough about ancestors let alone webpages and technologies of the year 1999! Craig & Patricia keep up the great work you have done in designing and finding webspace and sponsers! If everyone was as dedicated to their counties webpages as these two the info we would be able to get would be great!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the hard work! Princess >Hi... >The Horry County GenWeb site was adopted and is online. Since the >queries were part of the SCGenWeb, it is only natural they stay w/ the >site. They can be viewed at... > >Horry - >http://www.mindspring.net/~marceline/horry/index.html >Marceline Beem <marceline@mindspring.com> > >Hope this helps... >Sincerely, >Jerri Lynne_Webmaster >Charleston County > > >==== SCHORRY Mailing List ==== >More Horry County Listmember sites.. >6. Jerri Lynne Smith stowes@FMTC.Net >http//www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2350. >7. Vicky Hammond vlhammond@email.msn.com >http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~vhammond/index.htm >8. Tawny Green tawnyg@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~tawnyg >9. Carol Norton cnorton@centex.net >http\\www.geocities.com/heartland/ridge/3703 >10. Mary Ellen Wexler <mewexler@buffnet.net> >>http://www.buffnet.net/~mewexler/ >

Hi... The Horry County GenWeb site was adopted and is online. Since the queries were part of the SCGenWeb, it is only natural they stay w/ the site. They can be viewed at... Horry - http://www.mindspring.net/~marceline/horry/index.html Marceline Beem <marceline@mindspring.com> Hope this helps... Sincerely, Jerri Lynne_Webmaster Charleston County

I don't understand this war between the Horry County Historical site and the Gen Web or Roots Web site (whatever it is called), all I know is that the Horry Historical site is the best county website I have ever seen. Craig and all the hard working people who contibuted to this site deserve an award. Do people profit from owning a site? I do not think so. Maybe to win an award. So what is the problem? Why do we need TWO sites with the same exact information? Why is the other site trying to make a knock off of the Historical site? Why Why Why? Get with it people. If you put more energy into finding geneaological information rather then taking away information from OUR site to add to YOUR site then we would have better luck in finding our ANCESTERS. ENOUGH SAID

Please pardon my denseness, but why on earth would we want our queries removed from the Horry query board? And where on earth is it anymore, since there is no Horry Genweb site? Does my Thompson family query still exist? I labored over that query long and hard. Just visited Craig's new query board, and there are just two queries there, and those for 1999 only. Help? Jo Church Dickerson

Craig, Why do you do this? This is the second time you have misrepresented the facts to these good people and you daggone well owe me a public apology. I DID NOT REMOVE ANYTHING FROM THE QUERIES BOARD. Before you libel people take a moment to find out what's what. The Horry County Queries Board was changed by the people at GenConnect to DISPLAY only the past three months. Why you think I would remove any data which might help even one researcher is beyond me. Victoria Proctor At 10:17 PM 7/12/99 -0400, you wrote: >The query board is now operational. Victoria Proctor, the state SCGenWeb >director has removed all the past queries from our site. We now have a new >board and it is OURS. >webmaster@hchsonline.org > > > >==== SCHORRY Mailing List ==== >The Horry County Web Site needs your help and support with Census >data, old letters, pictures, any Horry County historical info, grave-yard >inscriptions etc. If you can help, Please contact the Horry County >Site webmasters Craig Smith and Patricia Burns >at-http://www.cityathletics.com/horry/ >

Thanks Craig! Headed that way! Pam Ricks Craig Smith wrote: > > The query board is now operational. Victoria Proctor, the state SCGenWeb > director has removed all the past queries from our site. We now have a new > board and it is OURS. > webmaster@hchsonline.org > > ==== SCHORRY Mailing List ==== > The Horry County Web Site needs your help and support with Census > data, old letters, pictures, any Horry County historical info, grave-yard > inscriptions etc. If you can help, Please contact the Horry County > Site webmasters Craig Smith and Patricia Burns at-http://www.cityathletics.com/horry/ -- "If you are losing the game, change the rules." http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5606 DarkMedicine's "From Here To Eternity" Co Founder of http://www.badgirls.org and PROUD to be one of "The Notorious 14" http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1855 HotRods Trucks and 4x4's http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Park/4480 Once Upon A Time At Tricks' Place

Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 Category: Graduation List Document: Aynor Class of 1951 Source: Irma Singleton Location: http://www.hchsonline.org/graduates/ahs1951.html Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 Category: Graduation List Document: Aynor Class of 1952 Source: Bonnie Faye Singleton Location: http://www.hchsonline.org/graduates/ahs1952.html Date: Monday, July 12, 1999 Category: Graduation List Document: Loris Class of 1988 Source: Charles W. "Charlie" Brown Location: http://www.hchsonline.org/graduates/lhs1988.html webmaster@hchsonline.org

The query board is now operational. Victoria Proctor, the state SCGenWeb director has removed all the past queries from our site. We now have a new board and it is OURS. webmaster@hchsonline.org

Rev. Lovell passed away several years ago, now I will have to research him, just like all my ancestors! Imagine that! Thanks for all the help! I really do appreciate it! Take care and peace to all! Princess