I am researching my granddaughters WOOTEN line. Looking for information on Joab WOOTEN and/or his son Daniel. Susan Spies

Can anyone identify this William Carpenter? Was he a part of the descendents of my Adam Carpenter d. 1851 in Edgefield District, South Carolina? Was he a brother of my ancestor, Ed/Edward/Edmund Carpneter b. c. 1842 d. 1816 Augusta, Richmond County, Georgia,buried in WestView Cemetery? Or was he from some other group of CarpenterS? William Carpenter, Jr. brother of my Ed Carpenter was missing from the list of heirs when his grandfather's land was sold in 1882-1883. I just presumed that he was deceased by that time, perhaps dying in the Civil War or some such thing? The item cited below was found posted to the Carpenter forum at Genealogy.com. Surely some news items about the trial would have been in the Edgefield newspapers!? Can anyone find a reference to it in the Edgefield newspapers of the time? Any assistance appreciated. Vivian Cates, Alto, Texas Swain County Herald, (Swain Co. NC) Thursday, December 5, 1889: "SOUTH CAROLINA---Two Murderers Sentenced: William Carpenter and Whitfield Murrell were convicted at Edgefield, S.C., Thursday of the murder of Preston Younce in June last. The jury deliberated three hours and returned a verdict of guilty with a recommendation to mercy. A motion made in arrest of judgement was refused by the judge, and the prisoners were sentenced to be hanged on the third of next January. These are the first white murderers convicted in Edgefield County for forty years."

Annual posting seeking information on John S Savage, born Edgefield District S.C. 1800. Married Ann H Gillespie. Had 2 children (in SC) James Anderson,1825 and Eleanor Jane,1827. Was in Georgia 1838, had 1 child there,Ann Adeliza. Witnessed a will as a J.P. and was indicted for Rape. In 1839 had 1 child, Mary Emily in Alabama. There is some suggestion of a child named Edwin. Bought property in Choctaw county Mississippi in Jan 1840. Lived there until his death Dec 1847. Have been chasing John's parentage since 1875 any and all clues appreciated. Savage family genealogy http://personal.ayrix.net/~savage1/ Unger family genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~unger Christmas begins it and Easter completes it.

I started the 1920 census today and not 10 minutes before this email arrived I found Nancy Caughman Matthews in the 1920 census and this time she is listed as Nannie E. Matthews (and living next door to Watson's son Charlie William Mathews). That pretty much settles it for me. With a couple of exceptions the majority of Mathews found in Barnwell County, at least up to the 1880 census, are descended from B.C.W. Mathews's uncle William F. Mathews. William F. is there at least as early as the 1850 Barnwell County census. The Watson found there in 1870 is his son Williamson Watson Mathews. The Moses Mathews you saw in the 1900 census should be the son of William Garrett Matthews and Elizabeth Corley. Greg Matthews ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net> To: "Greg Matthews" <dialzero@bellsouth.net> Cc: "SCSALUDA" <SCSALUDA@rootsweb.com>; "SCEDGEFIELD" <SCEDGEFI@rootsweb.com>; "H.C. Ouzts" <hc@ouzts.net> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Watson Matthews md. Nancy Elizabeth Caughman. > Great, because I had come to the same conclusion. The 1870 Census still > puzzles me, since neither the name Nancy or Elizabeth occur as a name of > an > adult. Maybe she was off caring for her aged father or something, and > Nancy > was helping to care for her children while she was gone. I don't know, > but > the length of marriage evidence you got from the 1900 and 1910 census > records certainly support a long term marriage to one Nancy Elizabeth > Caughman. > > Nancy Elizabeth just sounds more likely that Elizabeth Nancy is the only > reason I put the Nancy first. > > I also agree about the DAUGHTER M. E. being female, and listed in error in > 1860. > > There is another Watson Matthews in Barnwell Co, 1870, Series: M593 Roll: > 1484 Page: 445, and a full page of Matthews, living in Williston. but > he's > not married to Lucy either. I also looked for Caughman in 1870, but found > no Jacob, or any other age ca 75, since he was 65 in 1860. He could have > been living in another HH, but I did not go thru them. None in Saluda, > most > in Lexington Co. > > So, altho I agree with your conclusions, I am still curious about why Lucy > is listed in 1870. > > Thanks for getting back in touch. I will let you know anything that I > find > out. > > Bud Cade Watson Matthews died between 1910 - 1920 and a Moses Matthews is > listed in cem. records as follows: Matthews, Moses C. [Charles, Sr.] Aug > 3 1871 - Oct 6 1918. So I will try to find those DC as well. > > I found the Moses in census records as follows: > CENSUS: 1900 Saluda Co, SC, #1 (Germanville), p. 5A, hh#80/82 > Moses Matthews, head, 28 M W 8/1871, md 7 yrs, Farmer, Owns Farm, can > r/w SC SC SC > Sallie Matthews, wife, 27 F W 12/1872 md 7 yrs, 4 children/4 living, can > r/w, SC SC SC > Lethes L. Matthews, dau, 6 F W 4/1874 SC SC SC > Metra M. Matthews, dau, 4 F W 8/1895, SC SC SC > Eddie G. Matthews, son, 2 M W 11/1897, SC SC SC > Otis A. Matthews, son, 1 M W 5/1899, SC SC SC > > He is in the 1870 census with the parents, age 2, so that may mean this is > the wrong Moses. > > Billie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Matthews" <dialzero@bellsouth.net> > To: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net>; <scsaluda@rootsweb.com>; > "SCEDGEFIELD" <SCEDGEFI@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:06 AM > Subject: Re: [SCSALUDA] More Matthews Death Cert connected to > OldEdgefieldDistarea. > > >>I think I've figured all this mess out. Billie, ignore that email I just >>sent you. >> >> The 1860 census for Watson Mathews shows N. E. Mathews in his household. >> I've had this in my census spreadsheet for a couple of years and could >> not >> figure it out until now. This N. E. Mathews must be Nancy Elizabeth >> Caughman Mathews, his wife obviously (more on the Elizabeth bit in a >> minute). The 1860 census plainly shows that the 1 year child, M. E. >> Mathews is male. I think this is a mistake and that it should be female. >> Watson's daughter Elizabeth who shows up in the 1870 census is shown as >> 12 >> years old in 1870 so she should be in his 1860 household. >> >> The 1870 census is the only place we see the name Lucy. Note that there >> is a 8 year difference in their ages. In 1860 there is a 2 year >> difference in the ages of Watson and N.E. In 1880 there is a 3 year >> difference between Watson and Nancy. In 1900 there is a 3 year >> difference >> in age between Watson and Nancy. In 1910 Watson's wife is shown as >> Elizabeth (I just found this tonite) and there is a 4 year difference in >> their ages. >> >> In 1900 Nancy is listed as the mother of 9 children with all being alive. >> In 1910 Elizabeth says she is the mother of 9 children with 8 being >> alive. >> >> The most interesting bit of evidence is that in 1910 it says that Watson >> and Elizabeth have both only been married once and that they have been >> married 53 years. In 1900 Nancy and Watson are shown to be married 42 >> years. That would place the marriage of Watson and Nancy/Elizabeth at >> somewhere between 1856 and 1858. >> >> All of this taken together leads me to the conclusion that Watson was >> never married to a "Lucy" (at the very least we could suppose that Lucy >> was a nickname). However, if we look back at 1860 we see another young >> lady who I presume to be Nancy's sister: L. E. Caughman. We usually >> presume, without anything else to go on, that between 1850 and 1870 that >> a >> man and woman listed consecutively in the same household in the census to >> be man and wife. I've seen a couple of other instances where this isn't >> the case, aside from brother and sister, so I'm fully prepared to say >> that >> since the 1870 census does not implicitly tell us that Lucy is Watson's >> wife that it is possible that, for whatever reason, Lucy might in fact be >> his sister-in-law, L. E. Caughman (yes I'm taking a leap that the "L" >> stands for Lucy---or possibly Louisa as shown in the 1850 household of >> Jacob Caughman---, but it seems like a good idea at the moment!). >> >> At this point I am removing Lucy from my database as a wife of Watsons >> and >> putting all of his children under Nancy Elizabeth Caughman until other >> evidence presents itself. >> >> Greg Matthews >> > >

Great, because I had come to the same conclusion. The 1870 Census still puzzles me, since neither the name Nancy or Elizabeth occur as a name of an adult. Maybe she was off caring for her aged father or something, and Nancy was helping to care for her children while she was gone. I don't know, but the length of marriage evidence you got from the 1900 and 1910 census records certainly support a long term marriage to one Nancy Elizabeth Caughman. Nancy Elizabeth just sounds more likely that Elizabeth Nancy is the only reason I put the Nancy first. I also agree about the DAUGHTER M. E. being female, and listed in error in 1860. There is another Watson Matthews in Barnwell Co, 1870, Series: M593 Roll: 1484 Page: 445, and a full page of Matthews, living in Williston. but he's not married to Lucy either. I also looked for Caughman in 1870, but found no Jacob, or any other age ca 75, since he was 65 in 1860. He could have been living in another HH, but I did not go thru them. None in Saluda, most in Lexington Co. So, altho I agree with your conclusions, I am still curious about why Lucy is listed in 1870. Thanks for getting back in touch. I will let you know anything that I find out. Bud Cade Watson Matthews died between 1910 - 1920 and a Moses Matthews is listed in cem. records as follows: Matthews, Moses C. [Charles, Sr.] Aug 3 1871 - Oct 6 1918. So I will try to find those DC as well. I found the Moses in census records as follows: CENSUS: 1900 Saluda Co, SC, #1 (Germanville), p. 5A, hh#80/82 Moses Matthews, head, 28 M W 8/1871, md 7 yrs, Farmer, Owns Farm, can r/w SC SC SC Sallie Matthews, wife, 27 F W 12/1872 md 7 yrs, 4 children/4 living, can r/w, SC SC SC Lethes L. Matthews, dau, 6 F W 4/1874 SC SC SC Metra M. Matthews, dau, 4 F W 8/1895, SC SC SC Eddie G. Matthews, son, 2 M W 11/1897, SC SC SC Otis A. Matthews, son, 1 M W 5/1899, SC SC SC He is in the 1870 census with the parents, age 2, so that may mean this is the wrong Moses. Billie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Matthews" <dialzero@bellsouth.net> To: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net>; <scsaluda@rootsweb.com>; "SCEDGEFIELD" <SCEDGEFI@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [SCSALUDA] More Matthews Death Cert connected to OldEdgefieldDistarea. >I think I've figured all this mess out. Billie, ignore that email I just >sent you. > > The 1860 census for Watson Mathews shows N. E. Mathews in his household. > I've had this in my census spreadsheet for a couple of years and could not > figure it out until now. This N. E. Mathews must be Nancy Elizabeth > Caughman Mathews, his wife obviously (more on the Elizabeth bit in a > minute). The 1860 census plainly shows that the 1 year child, M. E. > Mathews is male. I think this is a mistake and that it should be female. > Watson's daughter Elizabeth who shows up in the 1870 census is shown as 12 > years old in 1870 so she should be in his 1860 household. > > The 1870 census is the only place we see the name Lucy. Note that there > is a 8 year difference in their ages. In 1860 there is a 2 year > difference in the ages of Watson and N.E. In 1880 there is a 3 year > difference between Watson and Nancy. In 1900 there is a 3 year difference > in age between Watson and Nancy. In 1910 Watson's wife is shown as > Elizabeth (I just found this tonite) and there is a 4 year difference in > their ages. > > In 1900 Nancy is listed as the mother of 9 children with all being alive. > In 1910 Elizabeth says she is the mother of 9 children with 8 being alive. > > The most interesting bit of evidence is that in 1910 it says that Watson > and Elizabeth have both only been married once and that they have been > married 53 years. In 1900 Nancy and Watson are shown to be married 42 > years. That would place the marriage of Watson and Nancy/Elizabeth at > somewhere between 1856 and 1858. > > All of this taken together leads me to the conclusion that Watson was > never married to a "Lucy" (at the very least we could suppose that Lucy > was a nickname). However, if we look back at 1860 we see another young > lady who I presume to be Nancy's sister: L. E. Caughman. We usually > presume, without anything else to go on, that between 1850 and 1870 that a > man and woman listed consecutively in the same household in the census to > be man and wife. I've seen a couple of other instances where this isn't > the case, aside from brother and sister, so I'm fully prepared to say that > since the 1870 census does not implicitly tell us that Lucy is Watson's > wife that it is possible that, for whatever reason, Lucy might in fact be > his sister-in-law, L. E. Caughman (yes I'm taking a leap that the "L" > stands for Lucy---or possibly Louisa as shown in the 1850 household of > Jacob Caughman---, but it seems like a good idea at the moment!). > > At this point I am removing Lucy from my database as a wife of Watsons and > putting all of his children under Nancy Elizabeth Caughman until other > evidence presents itself. > > Greg Matthews >

I think I've figured all this mess out. Billie, ignore that email I just sent you. The 1860 census for Watson Mathews shows N. E. Mathews in his household. I've had this in my census spreadsheet for a couple of years and could not figure it out until now. This N. E. Mathews must be Nancy Elizabeth Caughman Mathews, his wife obviously (more on the Elizabeth bit in a minute). The 1860 census plainly shows that the 1 year child, M. E. Mathews is male. I think this is a mistake and that it should be female. Watson's daughter Elizabeth who shows up in the 1870 census is shown as 12 years old in 1870 so she should be in his 1860 household. The 1870 census is the only place we see the name Lucy. Note that there is a 8 year difference in their ages. In 1860 there is a 2 year difference in the ages of Watson and N.E. In 1880 there is a 3 year difference between Watson and Nancy. In 1900 there is a 3 year difference in age between Watson and Nancy. In 1910 Watson's wife is shown as Elizabeth (I just found this tonite) and there is a 4 year difference in their ages. In 1900 Nancy is listed as the mother of 9 children with all being alive. In 1910 Elizabeth says she is the mother of 9 children with 8 being alive. The most interesting bit of evidence is that in 1910 it says that Watson and Elizabeth have both only been married once and that they have been married 53 years. In 1900 Nancy and Watson are shown to be married 42 years. That would place the marriage of Watson and Nancy/Elizabeth at somewhere between 1856 and 1858. All of this taken together leads me to the conclusion that Watson was never married to a "Lucy" (at the very least we could suppose that Lucy was a nickname). However, if we look back at 1860 we see another young lady who I presume to be Nancy's sister: L. E. Caughman. We usually presume, without anything else to go on, that between 1850 and 1870 that a man and woman listed consecutively in the same household in the census to be man and wife. I've seen a couple of other instances where this isn't the case, aside from brother and sister, so I'm fully prepared to say that since the 1870 census does not implicitly tell us that Lucy is Watson's wife that it is possible that, for whatever reason, Lucy might in fact be his sister-in-law, L. E. Caughman (yes I'm taking a leap that the "L" stands for Lucy---or possibly Louisa as shown in the 1850 household of Jacob Caughman---, but it seems like a good idea at the moment!). At this point I am removing Lucy from my database as a wife of Watsons and putting all of his children under Nancy Elizabeth Caughman until other evidence presents itself. Greg Matthews ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net> To: "Greg Matthews" <dialzero@bellsouth.net>; <scsaluda@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Dr. Constance T. McNeill" <connie@wctel.net>; <drewsmithtpa@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [SCSALUDA] More Matthews Death Cert connected to OldEdgefieldDistarea. > Thank you all for your input of information regarding the death > certificate of Charlie William Matthews that I posted. One comment from > all of the census records posted by Drew... > > Is it possible that the wife is Lucy Nancy or Nancy Lucy, as there is an > N. E. in 1860, Lucy in 1870 and Nancy in 1880 and on Charles' Death Cert. > There is not much time for a former marriage unless she died very soon > after a marriage, possibly with the child Mary E. listed in the 1860 > census with all the Caughman family living with Watson and N. E. Dates > of birth are off, but that is not new. > > Is there any other evidence of the name Lucy as the first wife, other than > the 1870 census? The 1860 census confuses things for me. > > Billie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Matthews" <dialzero@bellsouth.net> > To: <scsaluda@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 1:09 AM > Subject: Re: [SCSALUDA] More Matthews Death Cert connected to > OldEdgefieldDistarea. > > >> Nice catch! I sent Billie an email with who I thought B. Watson Mathews >> was >> and it turns out I was correct. He is Bud Cade Watson Mathews, son of >> Bud >> Cade Mathews (a well known Edgefield citizen of the 1800s) and his first >> wife Matilda Perry. >> >> Greg Matthews. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Drew Smith" <drewsmithtpa@gmail.com> >> To: <scsaluda@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [SCSALUDA] More Matthews Death Cert connected to Old >> EdgefieldDistarea. >> >> >>> Charlie and his family can be found in the 1880 census in District 54, >>> Huiet >>> Township, Edgefield County, but his household has been indexed by >>> Ancestry >>> as "Mathir". While the surname does look like "Mathir" at first glance >>> on >>> the census image, it is probably "Mathew". The household looks like >>> this: >>> >>> Watson, 45 >>> Nancy, 42 >>> Martha, 17 >>> Lambert, 13 >>> Moses, 11 >>> Pope, 8 >>> Charly, 6 >>> Alonzo, 3 >>> Bettie, 1 month (born in May) >>> >>> Here's the 1870 Mathews household, Saluda Division, Edgefield County: >>> >>> Watson, 35 >>> Lucy, 27 >>> Elizabeth, 12 >>> Caroline, 10 >>> Martha, 7 >>> Lambert, 4 >>> Moses, 2 >>> >>> Nearby are the households of 40-year-old Harry Mathews, and of >>> 32-year-old >>> William Mathews. >>> >>> In 1860, Saluda Regiment, Edgefield District, we have the following >>> household: >>> >>> B.C.W. Mathews, 25 >>> Jacob Caughman, 65 >>> L.E. Caughman, 24 >>> N.E. Mathews, 23 >>> J.S. Caughman, 19 >>> M.E. Mathews, 1 >>> Plus a farm laborer named Smith. >>> >>> Finally, here is the Matthews household in 1850 (The District, Edgefield >>> District): >>> >>> B.C. Matthews, 51 >>> Doratha, 26 >>> Tillman, 20 >>> Watson, 15 >>> William, 14 >>> Ezekiel, 11 >>> Elizabeth P., 2 >>> >>> The adjacent household is 80-year-old Martha Matthews, who was born in >>> North >>> Carolina. >>> > >

I am researching my direct lines of CARPENTER, WHITLOCK, AND BOOTH and other allied families who lived and intermarried in the Trenton (Pine Log House) area of Edgefield District, South Carolina. I am trying to unravel relationships to determine the parentage of my ancestoress who was Frances _?_ b.c. 1842 Edgefield District, South Carolina, d.c. 1874-1878 Edgefield District, South Carolina, who "married?" James Whitlock, Jr. c. 1864 in Edgefield District, South Carolina. My Frances seems to have had two daughters, Frances m. Fulmar and Ella m. Thompson, whose father is unknown, then had three surviving girls with James Whitlock, Jr., one of which was my great grandmother born in late 1865. After my Frances _?_ b. c. 1842 d.before 1880 James Whitlock, Jr. married again to Anna Patterson and had almost a dozen more children. In the 1850 and 1860 census Frances _?_ is living in the household of Alfred Hatcher b.c.1800 d.c.1868. However, Edgefield Equity Court suits maintain that Alfred had NO children. Other information maintains that Alfred Hatcher married a Frances Swearingen with two different marriage years of 1821 and 1842. I have posted this "brick wall" at various times in the past. I have been trying to unravel this mystery for about 40 years. Any assistane would be appreciated if you recognize any clues here. Additional information is included below. John Whitlock, son of Winfrey Whitlock married before 1790 Elizabeth Booth, dau of James Booth, was an uncle of of James Whitlock, Jr., my ancextor. Vivian Cates, Alto, Texas 1-936-858-3801 From the SWEARINGEN/VANSWEARINGEN book compiled 1997 by Karel L. Whyte page 157. Benjamin W. Hatcher, James Swearingen, and Thos. Deloach were witnesses to the will of Van Swearingen, signed 30 Dec 1835, proved 11 Apr 1836. "Final settlement on the VANN SWEARINGEN estate was in 1855: Mary Swearingen pd in full (wife), William Bush paid in full for his wife (Sarah), John H. Swearingen pd in full, John Walker pd in full for his wife (Elizabeth), Amanda Swearingen pd in full, and Thomas Swearingen pd in full." Page 156. Van Swearingen b. c. 1777 died January-April 1836 1st married Mary Kirkland b.c. 1785-1790 dau. of Isaac Kirkland and Mary Bettis. Van Swearingen married 2nd 17 Nov. 1822 Mary/Polly Bush b. c. 1798 d. 9 August 1860 in Mitchell County, Georgia.(E.A. newspaper notice)dau. Isaac and Sarah Bush. Page 157 "NOTE; Isaac Bush was born ca 1770 and died 1836. Sarah Bush was born ca 1761 and died 2 Apr 1845, 84 yrs. An abstract of Isaac's will of 18 Mar 1836 (Court House Records, Edgefield Co, SC)shows: Distributees-Richard Ward and wife 1/5, Mary Swearingen same, Susan Watsen same, Thos Deloach and wife same, John Whitlock and wife 1/2 of 1/5, Isaac and Sarah Slaton same. When did Isaac Bush die and when was the distribution made? The question is who did John Whitlock b. c. 1800 d.1857-1859 Edgefield District, South Carolina, marry and how many times was he married? From Carlee T. McClendon, EDGEFIELD MARRIAGE RECORDS, page 170, "WHITLOCK, JOHN and FRANCES DUNKLEY, July 4, 1852, by Rev. S. P. Getsen. (F.R.) F. R. is Family Record. Was Frances Dunkley Whitlock a granddaughter of Isaac Bush? Was the relationship through her mother or her father? Did John Whitlock have an earlier wife before Frances Dunkley? Was the Frances,wife of John Whitlock, the 1850 and 1860 actually a Dunkley or was she someone else? I have the following notes in my genealogy program on John Whitlock. Any assistance appreciated. The 1860 Estate Record of his mother, Elizabeth Booth Whitlock,lists John as a deceased son and the 9th of ten children. "9th John Whitlock's children Viz John Whitlock, Jr. Elizabeth Whitlock Joseph Whitlock" NOTE: The census and the estate record do not match as to the children. Obviously some were left out of the estate record that are listed on the census. The most reasonable explanation would be that they were simply omitted by mistake from the estate record because there were so many heirs. Either the marriage date is wrong, or he had two wives named Frances who were about the same age. For the sake of putting together a family group, it is going to be assumed that the marriage date was read wrong and that children were omitted from the estate record. 1850 CENSUS EDGEFIELD DISTRICT, SOUTH CAROLINA. House #2122/2125 John Whitlock 50 M farmer all b. SC Frances 33 F Susan 3 F Winfrey 2 M Lucretia 1 F 1860 CENSUS EDGEFIELD DISTRICT, SOUTH CAROLINA. Written page 39,Graniteville Post Office, June 26, 1860, House #288/284. Frances Whitlock 43 F $1200/2050 all b. SC Susan 13 F Winfree 12 M Lucinda 10 F Frances F 9 F John 7 M Betsy 6 F Warren 4 M 1870 EDGEFIELD DISTRICT, SOUTH CAROLINA. Printed Page , GreggTownship, Graniteville Post Office, House #97/105 Whitlock, Frances 50 F W Keepinghouse Bryant, Susan 22 F W works in cotton mill , Frances 5 F W at home Whitlock, Lucretia 19 F W cotton mill Francis L/C(?) 17 F W cotton mill Elizabeth 14 F W cotton mill Joseph W 11 M W attending school Powell, Nancy(Mang?) 20 F M (Mulatto) Domestic Servant Bansket, Harry 30 M M (Mulatto) Wagoner Berry, Milligan 30 M B (Black) not occupied , Eliza 22 F M(Mulatto) washer

The following Randall was indexed as Black. However his DC states he is white as does other info. I have found. 1949 - Death Cert #15889, Edgefield Co, SC Milledge Randall Male, White, Farmer, md to Leila FRANKLIN b. Feb. 10, 1870 Edgefield Co, SC father: John Randall mother: Ann Grice d. Oct 3, 1949, rural Ward, Edgefield Co., SC cause: bronchopneumonia; congestive heart failure; hypertensive cardio-vascular disease. informant: Mrs. Leila F. Randall, Johnston, SC buried: Philippi Baptist Church, Johnston, SC UT: George Funeral Home, Aiken SC. --------------------------------------- Brother JOHN Randall 1936 - Death Cert. #5804, Edgefield Co, SC John Randall Male, White Farmer, md b. Feb. 1870, SC father: Don't know mother: Don't know d. April 12, 1936, Johnston, Edgefield Co, SC cause: influenza; acute dialation of the heart informant: Mrs. Pauline Randall, Johnston, SC RFD buried: Phillipi Church [Edgefield Co, SC] UT: D. M. George, Aiken, SC Now why would they not know his parents when he is buried next to Ann Randall and he appears in the 1880 census with her as her son. The following are buried in nearby plots in Philippi: Randall, Mrs. Ann GRISE [GRICE] 1844 - 1932 Randall, John [H.] Feb 1 1870 - Apr 12 1936 Randall, Milledge ---------- - Oct 3 1949 Randall, Leila FRANKLIN Apr 15 1889 - Nov 6 1980 --------------------------------------------------- PROBLEMS: Note the birth date of John H. Randall as Feb. 1, 1870. So Randall cannot be born that same year on the 10th. as Milledge, so birthdates on DC for Milledge may be wrong, as census records show him younger than John H. But the big problem is that Ann Grice is suppose to have married Seaborn Randall Seaborn is found living with his parents in the Edgefield Dist 1850 census. By 1860 he is living in Lotts PO area, married, his mother-in-law living with him: CENSUS: 1860 Edgefield Dist, SC, Lotts PO, hh# 195/192 Seaborn Randal 21 M Farmer SC Md within the year Ann Randall 16 F SC Md within the year Rebecca Grice 50 F SC The Oct 19, 1919 Confederate Pension Application #3597, Mrs. Annie Randall, widow of Seaborn Randall states that he enlisted in Co. A., 19th Regiment of SCV under Capt. Elijah Horn on the 27th of Nov, 1861 and served until he was killed on Sept 20, 1863. They married in 1859. She had been on the Class 5-3 pension roll. Annie Randall states that she has no property or income and is 80 years old, residing near Johnston, Edgefield Co, SC where she has lived all her life. So.... did she remarry to a John Randall? I found her living with her mother in the 1870 Census: 1870 Edgefield Co, SC, hh#299 Rebecca Grice, 50 F W $100, SC Ann Randal, 25 F W SC Laurence Randal, 9 M W SC Elijah Randall, 3 M W SC [b. 1867 after death of Seaborn???] There may be an infant in the hh too, as there is a Infant Randal mixed up in the next hh in the 1870 Census I have that gives no page numbers, and the sorting is off somewhat. It was Compiled by a group of grad students at the Univ of Illinois for Vernon Burton. Vernon used the information compiled from these three years to compile his statistics for the book "In My Father's House". [I am having computer problems that will not connect me to the internet thru Mozilla Firefox, and to connect to get census records thru Internet Explorer takes forever. Our server has made some changes and messed up a lot of my connections. That is why I do not cite the actual image of 1870. Not only that, but this seems to be the same Ann Randall with a whole new family continued to have children, according to the relationships given in the 1880 census. [NOT the original image] CENSUS: 1880 Ward twp, Edgefield, SC, p. 437D Source: FHL Film 1255228 National Archives Film T9-1228 Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace Anne RANDALL Self F W W 39 SC Occ: Knitting Fa: SC Mo: SC John H. RANDALL Son M S W 12 SC Occ: Works On Farm Fa: SC Mo: SC Hattie RANDALL Dau F S W 8 SC Fa: SC Mo: SC Milledge RANDALL Son M S W 6 SC Fa: SC Mo: SC Mattie RANDALL Dau F S W 5 SC Fa: SC Mo: SC William RANDALL Son M S W 2 SC Fa: SC Mo: SC Her son Lawrence of 1870 is next door with his Grandmother, Elijah must hav died. 1880 Ward, Edgefield, SC, p. 437D Source: FHL Film 1255228 National Archives Film T9-1228 Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace Rebecca GRICE Self F W W 61 SC Occ: Sewing Fa: NC Mo: NC Laurens O. RANDALL GSon M S W 17 SC Occ: Works On Farm Fa: SC Mo: SC I did not look up the DC of Ann Grice Randall and one should be available. I will add her to my list, but it may be a long time till I get down the huge list I have to do. Any Randall researchers out that who can explain who the father of Milledge, John H. and the others listed in the census above might be? I'm not researching the whole Randall family, just trying to prove some connections I have in my file, and this is not making sense based on what I can find. Billie Jones tjones@camden.net

1949 - Death Cert. #15888, Edgefield Co, SC Benjamin Johnson Harrison Male, white, Farmer, widow of Carrie McCarty b. March 31, 1861, Edgefield Co, SC father: B. W. Harrison mother: Rebecca Johnson d. Dec. 23, 1949, Trenton, Edgefield Co, SC cause: encephelitis informant: W. B. Hare, Trenton, SC buried: Ebenezer Cem., Trenton, SC UT: Edgefield Mercantile Co, Edgefield, SC Buried together at Ebenezer Baptist Church, Trenton, Edgefield Co, SC *Harrison, Benjamin J. 1860 - 1949 Harrison, Carrie McCARTY 1867 - 1925 Harrison, John Carroll May 20 1899 - May 20 1899 HC Ouzts names his wife as Caroline Ann Angelia Matilda 'Carrie' McCarty. According to HC Ouzts' Harrison file, He is the son of Benjamin Walpole Harrison (b. 2/9/1815 Edgefield SC, d. 6/5/1892 Edgefield SC) m. Rebecca Meyer Johnston (b. 2/23/1825 Edgefield SC, d. 4/23/1882 Edgefield SC)d/o Helen Meyer & Rev. John Knox Johnston), [1850][1870][1880] Ebenezer Bapt Trenton SC [Sources: Edgefield Death Notices and Cem. Records; Edgefield Genealogy, compiled by Edgefield Ch. SCGS, 1995; updated in 2003; Ebenezer Bapt. Church Cem. Records; CENSUS records] I found the parents also buried at Ebenezer Baptist in Trenton, Edgefield Co, SC Harrison, Rebecca M. JOHNSON Feb 23 1825 - Apr 23 1882 Harrison, Benjamin Walpole Feb 9 1815 - Jun 5 1892

Dale would you please check your listing for HADDEN, PUCKETT or CHAPMAN. Thank you, Margie Puckett King ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evelyn" <esleslie@bellsouth.net> To: "Margie King" <heyred@knology.net> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [SCEDGEFI] New Windsor Surnames > Hi Margie, > Dale is the poster with the information on New Windsor........sorry I > can't help. > Evelyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie King" <heyred@knology.net> > To: "Evelyn" <esleslie@bellsouth.net> > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 9:17 PM > Subject: Re: [SCEDGEFI] New Windsor Surnames > > >> Evelyn, would you please look for the HADDEN surname. My grandfather >> Columbus C. Hadden lived in that area. >> >> Thank you, >> Margie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Evelyn" <esleslie@bellsouth.net> >> To: <SCEDGEFI-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:42 PM >> Subject: [SCEDGEFI] New Windsor Surnames >> >> >>> Dale wrote, >>> I checked the listing of surnames for New Windsor and didn't find that >>> of anyone named Messer. >>> >>> Dale, >>> I don't know what source(s) you are using, but do you have anything for >>> either LESLIE or McCASKILL in New Windsor? >>> Thanks, >>> Evelyn >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SCEDGEFI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date: >> 12/27/2006 >> >> > > >

The maps of the early 18th century won't tell you much about the boundaries between colonial settlements and Indian Territory, because the various treaties and land cessions moved more rapidly than a mapmaker could follow them. The western boundaries of the provinces, and of the parishes and counties within the provinces, were not formally specified or surveyed. Maps through the 1750's show the western boundary of VA, NC, SC and GA as being the Mississippi River, but note that the official inhabitants of most of that region were Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw and Creek. The places where people could or could not settle were written down in response to various agreements with tribal representatives, reported in, e.g., the SC Council Journals. The most complete description of how quickly the boundaries changed (and where they were when) is Robert L. Meriwether, The Expansion of South Carolina, 1729-1765. Surveyor/engineer William de Brahm produced a remarkably-accurate map of SC and its frontier townships in 1757, just before the major campaigns of the Cherokee Wars in SC. That map should be in one of the online collections. Before then, settlers had to depend on local knowledge from Indian traders or regional Deputy Surveyors in order to keep up with which land was technically OK (and usually safe) for Europeans to live on. The two westernmost frontier townships were Congarees (name changed to Saxegotha) at the trading post and fort across the Congaree River from the site of Columbia SC, and New Windsor, at the Savannah Town tradingpost and Fort Moore across the Savannah from Augusta. An Indian path connected the two trading posts. East of the path, you were "sort of" in SC; west of it, you were "sort of" in Indian territory through the 1740's. Swiss immigrants were the first settlers of both of those frontier townships: Saxegotha in 1735 and New Windsor in 1737. The British recruited Swiss settlers specifically because 1) they were renowned for their military skills; 2) they were Protestant; and 3) they were unlikely to own slaves (the large slave majority in the Low Country was as worrisome to the Charlestown plantation owners as threats from the French, Spanish and Indians). Those Swiss were aware that they were at the outer boundary of European colonization at the time. One of the first group at Saxegotha wrote home that "This country is not at the end of the world; it borders on several other countries such as Virginia and India." That particular bordering section of "India" became Ninety Six District in 1769, Edgefield District in 1785. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frances" <frances_55-58@charter.net> To: <SCEDGEFI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:13 PM Subject: [SCEDGEFI] Indian Territory in Edgefield Would anyone have information to the Official Indian Boundary in the Abbeville or Edgefield District in the 1700 or know of a website where there would be a map? Thanks, Frances

Someone mentioned the Hugenot settlement in SC--where can I find information on that? Are there any lists of the settlers that were in that group? Joanne Brown

Would anyone have information to the Official Indian Boundary in the Abbeville or Edgefield District in the 1700 or know of a website where there would be a map? Thanks, Frances

Hi Evelyn, I'm using the index from Virginia 'Jean' Bowe Strickland's book: "Five Fortune Tellers of New Windsor: Tobler, Zubly, Meyer, Sturzenegger, and Nial, Swiss Pioneer Settlers of South Carolinas". Neither Leslie or McCaskill appear in that work. Dale ________________________________ Evelyn wrote: > Dale wrote, > I checked the listing of surnames for New Windsor and didn't find that > of anyone named Messer. > > Dale, > I don't know what source(s) you are using, but do you have anything for > either LESLIE or McCASKILL in New Windsor? > Thanks, > Evelyn > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SCEDGEFI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

This is probably totally unrelated but I went to school with someone with the last name of Cornmesser in North Augusta, SC which is part of Aiken County now. That would have been back in the 60s. It's possible that the name Messer could have been shorted to Messer or split up to two surnames like Corn and Messer. I have heard that the name Pettypoole became, Petty, Pool, and Poole. Just a thought......... In a message dated 12/27/2006 7:43:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dereddi@hargray.com writes: Hi Folks, Fort Moore was present in what -eventually- became Edgefield District starting during the 1730s. It was created on the Savannah River at what was to become the New Windsor Township and then became Beech Island (first Edgefield District, then later Aiken County). This was just below the Fall Line at Augusta, Georgia (near Sand Bar Ferry). I checked the listing of surnames for New Windsor and didn't find that of anyone named Messer. Many of the settlers of New Windsor were Swiss in orignins - although, not all were such. The naming pattern for that area -did- change over time. Much of South Carolina was settled in part by Huguenots, of course. Peter Reddick, brother of my gggg-grandfather Nicholas Reddick - had a 'plantation' at Beach Island through 1815 or '16. That's my point of origin (and interest) with the area of Fort Moore / New Windsor / Beech Island. Sincerely, Dale E. Reddick

Dale wrote, I checked the listing of surnames for New Windsor and didn't find that of anyone named Messer. Dale, I don't know what source(s) you are using, but do you have anything for either LESLIE or McCASKILL in New Windsor? Thanks, Evelyn

Hi Folks, Fort Moore was present in what -eventually- became Edgefield District starting during the 1730s. It was created on the Savannah River at what was to become the New Windsor Township and then became Beech Island (first Edgefield District, then later Aiken County). This was just below the Fall Line at Augusta, Georgia (near Sand Bar Ferry). I checked the listing of surnames for New Windsor and didn't find that of anyone named Messer. Many of the settlers of New Windsor were Swiss in orignins - although, not all were such. The naming pattern for that area -did- change over time. Much of South Carolina was settled in part by Huguenots, of course. Peter Reddick, brother of my gggg-grandfather Nicholas Reddick - had a 'plantation' at Beach Island through 1815 or '16. That's my point of origin (and interest) with the area of Fort Moore / New Windsor / Beech Island. Sincerely, Dale E. Reddick _________________________________ Harriet Imrey wrote: > I haven't heard of any European-origin settlers being born in ~1735 in the > region that became Ninety Six District, since it remained Indian Territory > for another couple of decades. A few Licensed Indian Traders were permitted > to keep outposts along the Savannah that early, but it wasn't a place for > families. > > The first appearance of the Messer surname in backcountry SC was in 1758, > when a John Messer applied for a 400-acre grant (for himself and 6 household > members). He settled in the Long Canes region in Abbeville--not > Edgefield--District. That was beyond the official Indian Boundary at the > time. I don't know if he survived the Long Canes Massacre in Feb 1760. A > Rebekah Messer (widow or daughter?) married a John Deall at the Long Canes > settlement in 1765, and a Robert Messer owned property there in the early > 1770's. > > The first Messer with documented property in Edgefield District was a Joseph > Messer, who owned land near Cloud's Creek (current Saluda Co just west of > Lexington Co) by 1772. This is where John, William and Samuel Messer lived > later, so possibly the same family. Either his land petition was misplaced, > or he's the Joseph "Measils" who petitioned for 200 acres in 1771. The ones > with militia service records in SC were Robert Messer (of Abbeville) and > people named James, John and William Messer. They were not necessarily > residents of SC at the time of enlistment, since members of several NC units > were in military engagements in SC and got post-war land grants there. > > The SC colonial records are not informative about the location of the James > Messer family before the war. In 1754, the Craven Co NC militia company > under Capt. John Isler included privates named James Messer Sr. and Benjamin > Messer. The 1755 Pasquotank Co NC company under Capt. Samuel Lowman > included privates Joseph and Coy Messer. The surname is relatively common > in colonial NC, extremely rare in colonial SC. The Long Canes (Abbeville) > settlement where the John Messer family moved in 1758 was founded by the > Pickens and Calhoun families from PA and VA via NC; most of their fellow > settlers had also lived previously in NC. Given the absence of pre-war > records for the family of James Messer in Edgefield (or elsewhere in SC), > you may need to look in NC. Try the archives for Craven and Pasquotank > counties, since some members of the family were present there in the 1750's. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Del Messer" <delnnerk@hotmail.com> > To: <SCEDGEFI-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:38 PM > Subject: [SCEDGEFI] Looking for Messer surname in Edgefield > > > I am the 5th gr.grandson to James Messer born 1735 in Edgefeild Co. S.C. I > have read many lists and emails and have yet to see the Messer name. James > Messer's children were William, Stephen, John Jr., Jacob, Moses, Sarah, > Sion, Prudence, Benjamin and Samuel. John is my 4th gr.granfather. I joined > your site hopeing to go back futher to James's father and possably the > emigrant origon. I did find a will naming two of his son's as witnesses and > that one of them later obtaned some of the land in the Edgefield area > mentioned in the will. If anyone has seen the Messer name in Edgefield > Co., please let me know. > Thank you... Delbert H. Messer Jr. (Del) >

I haven't heard of any European-origin settlers being born in ~1735 in the region that became Ninety Six District, since it remained Indian Territory for another couple of decades. A few Licensed Indian Traders were permitted to keep outposts along the Savannah that early, but it wasn't a place for families. The first appearance of the Messer surname in backcountry SC was in 1758, when a John Messer applied for a 400-acre grant (for himself and 6 household members). He settled in the Long Canes region in Abbeville--not Edgefield--District. That was beyond the official Indian Boundary at the time. I don't know if he survived the Long Canes Massacre in Feb 1760. A Rebekah Messer (widow or daughter?) married a John Deall at the Long Canes settlement in 1765, and a Robert Messer owned property there in the early 1770's. The first Messer with documented property in Edgefield District was a Joseph Messer, who owned land near Cloud's Creek (current Saluda Co just west of Lexington Co) by 1772. This is where John, William and Samuel Messer lived later, so possibly the same family. Either his land petition was misplaced, or he's the Joseph "Measils" who petitioned for 200 acres in 1771. The ones with militia service records in SC were Robert Messer (of Abbeville) and people named James, John and William Messer. They were not necessarily residents of SC at the time of enlistment, since members of several NC units were in military engagements in SC and got post-war land grants there. The SC colonial records are not informative about the location of the James Messer family before the war. In 1754, the Craven Co NC militia company under Capt. John Isler included privates named James Messer Sr. and Benjamin Messer. The 1755 Pasquotank Co NC company under Capt. Samuel Lowman included privates Joseph and Coy Messer. The surname is relatively common in colonial NC, extremely rare in colonial SC. The Long Canes (Abbeville) settlement where the John Messer family moved in 1758 was founded by the Pickens and Calhoun families from PA and VA via NC; most of their fellow settlers had also lived previously in NC. Given the absence of pre-war records for the family of James Messer in Edgefield (or elsewhere in SC), you may need to look in NC. Try the archives for Craven and Pasquotank counties, since some members of the family were present there in the 1750's. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del Messer" <delnnerk@hotmail.com> To: <SCEDGEFI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 12:38 PM Subject: [SCEDGEFI] Looking for Messer surname in Edgefield I am the 5th gr.grandson to James Messer born 1735 in Edgefeild Co. S.C. I have read many lists and emails and have yet to see the Messer name. James Messer's children were William, Stephen, John Jr., Jacob, Moses, Sarah, Sion, Prudence, Benjamin and Samuel. John is my 4th gr.granfather. I joined your site hopeing to go back futher to James's father and possably the emigrant origon. I did find a will naming two of his son's as witnesses and that one of them later obtaned some of the land in the Edgefield area mentioned in the will. If anyone has seen the Messer name in Edgefield Co., please let me know. Thank you... Delbert H. Messer Jr. (Del)

One of my fellow researchers responded to the message regarding proof of the Thomas McManus and Margaret Quattlebaum marriage. She may have sent it on to you as well, but just in case I am forwarding her message to you.... tried to send directly but it was returned when I sent to outback@skybest.com . So I hope the person is on the Edgefield list. Billie Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: <brooksdarlene@bellsouth.net> To: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [SCEDGEFI] McManus/Quattlebaum Marriage of 1857 > Hi Billie, > > The book "Edgefield Marriage Records" by Carlee T. McClendon does list > this > marriage as: > > MCMANUS, THOMAS OF EDGEFIELD AND MARGARET QUATTLEBAUM OF ALABAMA, AUGUST > 27, 1857, BY REV. JOHN TRAPP. > > Thanks, > Darlene Brookins Brooks > Stapleton, Georgia > >

Having trouble with our email and receiving and sending but coming back undelivered. so am resending. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee and Billie Jones" <tjones@camden.net> To: "SCGREENWOOD" <SCGREENW@rootsweb.com>; "SCEDGEFIELD" <SCEDGEFI@rootsweb.com>; "SCABBEVILLE" <SCABBEVI@rootsweb.com>; <SCGREENV-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: "H.C. Ouzts" <hc@ouzts.net> Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 8:31 PM Subject: Obit of Martha Dean Sayers, b. 1907, Greenwood co, SC. > The following was published in the obit central: SAYERS, Martha (DEAN); > 99; Greenwood SC>Winston-Salem NC; Salisbury P; 2006-12-11; wrabb > > Her age calculated to birthdate ca 1907. I just happened to have a Martha > Dean b. ca 1907 in my file, and wondered how to find the obit and see if > she was the same one. > > Thanks to Connie McNeill who found this obit for me, Published in the > Salisbury Post on 12/11/2006. She is a link to my Dean line.... turns out > she is my 3rd cousin twice removed and my 4th cousin once removed. > > Martha Dean Sayers > WINSTON-SALEM - Martha Dean Sayers, 99, died Sunday Dec. 10, 2006, at > the Triad United Methodist Home in Winston-Salem where she had been a > resident for many years. Mrs. Sayers was born April 14, 1907, in > Greenwood, S.Carolina, the daughter of Arthur Robert Dean and Carrie Leila > Parkman. She was a long-time resident of Gastonia, where she was an active > member of First United Methodist Church and a leader in its nursery. She > was preceded in death by her husband, William Floyd Sayers. > Mrs. Sayers is survived by her two sons and their spouses, to whom she > devoted her life: Dr. William F. and Elizabeth H. Sayers of Winston-Salem > and Mr. Donald D. and Carol L. Sayers of Salisbury; four grandchildren, W. > Scott Sayers and Bryan H. Sayers and his wife Julie of Winston-Salem; > Kelly Dean Sayers of Charlotte, and Holly Sayers Hartzog and her husband > Chip of Raleigh; four greatgrandchildren, Katelyn B. and Julia S. Strand > of Dublin, Ohio and Elizabeth H. and Margaret M. Hartzog of Raleigh; one > sister, Margaret Dean Wood of Fountain Inn, S.C. and numerous nieces and > nephews. > Service: A graveside service will be held at Cannon Memorial Park in > Fountain Inn, S.C. at 2 p.m. Thursday. Memorials: In lieu of flowers > memorials may be made to the Triad United Methodist Home, 1240 Arbor Road, > Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27104. Salem Funeral Service, > Winston-Salem, NorthCarolina and Fletchers Funeral Service, Fountain Inn, > South Carolina are in charge of arrangements. Published in the Salisbury > Post on 12/11/2006. > > If anyone has any information on her sister Margaret, I would love to hear > about her. I do not have her in the family thru the 1920 census, and I do > not have access electronically to the 1930 census. > > Billie Jones > Camden, SC > > > >