Anyone who cares to correspond with John Sullivan may do so privately [email protected] I have chosen to unsubscribe him and put him on a reject list. Jane >From: "Sullivan, John" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: [SCCOLLET] On-line Cemeteries - another perspective! >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:22:07 -0600 > >Dear Ms. Ballard: > >Thank you for calling me a thief and a childish bully. >What are you trying to accomplish with your insults? >If your motivations are altruistic, why are you attacking >me about making them public? >Are you going to tell me you never copied a page out of a book, >rather than buying the book? >I was generous in that I did not try to ascribe negative >motivations about you, simply that the decision to publish >a book overlooks societal and technological changes which >have occurred in the past 10-20 years. > >I am hardly a thief, and I am not asking anyone to do something >which I have not already done myself. I have gone to the Texas >State Archives and done look-ups for people; gone to local >cemeteries, taken photos and sent them to people; tracked down >people who have done local cemetery surveys and requested permission >to put their surveys on-line; transcribed cemeteries and added >updates and notes to them to make them more helpful than just >"Mr X born-died", etc. When I built upon the works of others, >I gave them full recognition and credit for their efforts. >I have also dealt with one of the locals who is very >self-aggrandizing and has no qualms about taking the >un-copyrighted work of others and claiming it for their own. > >I think it is commendable for the St. Bartholomew's Genealogical >Society (SBGS?) to embark upon such a project - although that is the kind >of > >project that genealogical societies do, is it not? Look at what has >been done by the Salt Lake Genealogical Society, admittedly with large >support >from the Mormon Church. >But was the motivation of the SBGS members to work so hard gathering the >cemetery >information so they could publish a book or to MAKE THE INFORMATION >AVAILABLE to others for research? Publishing on the internet is still >publishing; it just isn't in book form. > >Perhaps Madame President has mis-interpreted the desires and motives of the >workers? Perhaps someone on the committee wants to see their name on a >book? >But now I am speculating. > >If the information is almost ready for publication, that means it is >already > >stored in computer usable format, so the information could be made >available > >on the internet for access by researchers around the world, with very >little > >additional effort and probably for no cost to either the SBGS or the >researchers. > >How much will it cost SBGS to publish and stock pile the >book and try to sell it? SBGS may have its funds tied up >for a long time. Perhaps others that have been this route will >share their experiences with us? > >Someone else wrote me and indicated she had previously communicated >with Evelyn Bryan, who co-authored "Cemeteries of Upper Colleton >County" and others, and that she doesn't want her work put on-line >because she still has copies of her book for sale. This is perfectly >understandable and every bit her right. If I had e-mail for >her, I would look into buying one. As an aside, I would like >to get a copy of Hiers Family Genealogy, too, but it is long >out of print and the author indicated to me a few months back >he was not planning a reprint. > >In closing, I would like to see the information made available >to as many as possible, and I think the SBGS is probably making >a mistake financially when (if) they publish a book. > >Best regards, > >John Sullivan >Austin, Texas > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Judy Ballard [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 5:19 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [SCCOLLET] On-line Cemeteries - another perspective! > > > > > > Mr. Sullivan, > > > > Your attitude seems to be the same as that of a thief. Don't > > purchase, > > create, or legally obtain, but simple take whatever you want > > because you > > know someone has it. > > > > For your information, I am one of the few members who organized the > > Genealogy chapter that you mention. Our members have spent many hours > > assisting people on the net and by snailmail in obtaining information > > information on their ancestors for free, simply by asking > > nicely. We will > > not be intimidated by any childish bully who thinks the world owes him > > anything he wants while he sits playing at his computer. > > > > The subject cemetery information is almost ready to go to > > press. Hopefully, > > within the next 6 months it will be made available to all. > > For 3 years our > > members have worked very hard to acquire information that was to be > > published and preserved to enable it to help people find > > their loved ones. > > No one else would do the project, so we are. > > > > Shame on you. > > > > Judy > > Treasurer > > Old St. Bartholomew Chapter > > > > and darn proud of our work too. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sullivan, John <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 3:28 PM > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] On-line Cemeteries - another perspective! > > > > > > > Dear SC list, > > > Welcome to the new millennium (some may say a year early). > > > I was perfectly aware of why the Cemetery Listings were not > > > on-line and I completely disagree with the reasoning. > > > > > > In my humble opinion: > > > A few years ago, books were almost the only way to disseminate > > information. > > > > > > The genealogical societies put out various books in order to > > > share the information. Their clients were libraries, professional > > > genealogists, and other genealogical societies, and probably a small > > > number of individuals. I doubt if any of the publishers made any > > > significant money, rather, I suspect most ventures lost money or > > > broke even. We're not talking blockbuster novels on the NY > > Times Best > > > Seller list ("Cold Mountain"), we're talking about cemetery lists! > > > > > > As for the people who actually did the cemetery surveys, I suspect > > > they did it simply because they wanted the information to > > be available > > > to more than the few people close enough to go to the cemeteries > > themselves. > > > > > > In other words, they did it for the purpose of sharing the > > information > > with > > > as many people as possible. That has been my experience > > with the people > > > where I live who have done surveys, including myself. > > Labor of love, so > > > they say. > > > > > > A professional genealogist or business certainly > > > has the right to go do survey(s), compile them, hoard them, > > and/or sell > > > them. (Ever think about who holds the copyright on a tombstone > > > inscription?) > > > Family tree maker even gets people to give information to them so > > > they can sell it to others. The donors do it to > > disseminate the data and > > > find others with similar interests. > > > But should a local non-profit genealogical society be hoarding and > > selling? > > > > > > Isn't part of its charter to make the information available. > > > > > > As I said before, welcome to the new millennium. The > > internet is the best > > > place in the world to share and disseminate information. > > > Bad for hoarders and profiteers. > > > > > > And who knows when, if ever, the genealogical society will > > publish their > > > book. > > > > > > If people have done surveys in Colleton County and wish for them > > > to be on-line, I would graciously accept them via e-mail and > > > see about getting them published on the internet. please, > > no copyrighted > > > material unless you can send permission from the copyright holder. > > > > > > I was shocked to be told that the local genealogical society is in > > > opposition to on-line publishing and the people maintaining > > the local > > > web site are on the side of keeping the information unavailable. > > > > > > You are probably getting this e-mail via a listserve sponsored by > > > RootsWeb. Think about International Ships Transcribers Guild, > > > on-line census pages and transcriptions, people who publish their > > > family trees for the world to see, etc. Think about it! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > John Sullivan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jane Hurd [mailto:[email protected]] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:26 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] From List Manager: about St. Bart. > > Genealogy Society > > > > > > OK folks, > > > > > > I understand their position. They are a non-profit > > organization. If they > > > have local projects that want to complete, they must > > generate revenue from > > > membership dues, publishing books, etc. > > > > > > If I did research for a book or wrote a novel, I wouldn't > > give permssion > > to > > > somebody else to post it on their web page. If I posted it without > > > permission, it's called copyright violation. > > > > > > I wouldn't give someone permission to post the cemeteries > > online as long > > as > > > I was trying to sell the book. That's not using good > > business sense. > > > > > > The fact that the Dorchester cemeteries are online is through the > > generosity > > > > > > of the surviving authors. The books were published in > > 1978, 1979 and are > > > OUT OF PRINT. Very few copies are in the hands of > > libraries and most > > > libraries who have them, don't allow them released on > > interlibrary loan. > > > > > > I can not post the cemeteries online without their group's > > permission. > > > I can not volunteer (or have anyone else do it) to do > > lookups without > > their > > > group's permission. > > > I, like most of you do not live in South Carolina, so I > > don't have fast > > > access to the cemeteries. > > > > > > Why not try joining the group, making some friends in the > > group (several > > of > > > them live in Colleton County) and asking them to check the > > local records? > > > > > > The Old St. Bartholomew Genealogical Chapter > > > 104 Wade Hampton Ave. > > > Walterboro, SC 29488 > > > > > > Their monthly meetings are held on the second Sunday of > > each month, except > > > July and Aug. at the Library Annex, 615 Hampton St.,at 3:00 PM. > > > > > > If you are interested in joining this chapter of The South Carolina > > > Genealogical Society, their yearly dues are > > > > > > individual $12.00 > > > family $18.00 > > > associate $8.00 > > > > > > NOTE - Associate dues apply if you are already a member of > > another chapter > > > of The South Carolina Genealogical Society; your state dues > > were paid by > > the > > > > > > first chapter you had joined. > > > > > > I do know the frustration of not having access to the > > records that pertain > > > to your ancestors. The fact that Sherman marched through > > South Carolina > > and > > > > > > burned courthouses makes all of our research frustrating. > > > > > > Thanks for reading this. I'm sorry if you can't see it > > from their point > > of > > > view. Can someone post the status of the book? > > > > > > Jane Hurd > > > [email protected] > > > > > > Colleton County SCGenWeb > > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Sullivan, John" <[email protected]> > > > >To: [email protected] > > > >Subject: [SCCOLLET] Need Help Colleton County Cemeteries > > > >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:51:19 -0600 > > > > > > > >I need help finding a few ancestors in Colleton. > > > >There seem to be almost no Colleton Cemeteries on-line, > > > >and have been told there is opposition to making them > > > >available on-line so that Colleton Historical Society > > > >can (someday?) make a book with them and sell them. > > > > > > > >I have looked in "Cemeteries of Upper Colleton County", > > > >but Walterboro/mid/lower Colleton County are a problem. > > > > > > > >Anyone out there have the information available and > > > >are willing to do a few look-ups for me? > > > > > > > >Thank you, > > > > > > > >John Sullivan > > > >Austin, Texas > > > > > > > > > > > >==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > > >Visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_colleton.html > > > >Colleton Co - American Local History Network > > > > > > > >============================== > > > >Free Web space. 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