Dear Ms. Ballard: Thank you for calling me a thief and a childish bully. What are you trying to accomplish with your insults? If your motivations are altruistic, why are you attacking me about making them public? Are you going to tell me you never copied a page out of a book, rather than buying the book? I was generous in that I did not try to ascribe negative motivations about you, simply that the decision to publish a book overlooks societal and technological changes which have occurred in the past 10-20 years. I am hardly a thief, and I am not asking anyone to do something which I have not already done myself. I have gone to the Texas State Archives and done look-ups for people; gone to local cemeteries, taken photos and sent them to people; tracked down people who have done local cemetery surveys and requested permission to put their surveys on-line; transcribed cemeteries and added updates and notes to them to make them more helpful than just "Mr X born-died", etc. When I built upon the works of others, I gave them full recognition and credit for their efforts. I have also dealt with one of the locals who is very self-aggrandizing and has no qualms about taking the un-copyrighted work of others and claiming it for their own. I think it is commendable for the St. Bartholomew's Genealogical Society (SBGS?) to embark upon such a project - although that is the kind of project that genealogical societies do, is it not? Look at what has been done by the Salt Lake Genealogical Society, admittedly with large support from the Mormon Church. But was the motivation of the SBGS members to work so hard gathering the cemetery information so they could publish a book or to MAKE THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE to others for research? Publishing on the internet is still publishing; it just isn't in book form. Perhaps Madame President has mis-interpreted the desires and motives of the workers? Perhaps someone on the committee wants to see their name on a book? But now I am speculating. If the information is almost ready for publication, that means it is already stored in computer usable format, so the information could be made available on the internet for access by researchers around the world, with very little additional effort and probably for no cost to either the SBGS or the researchers. How much will it cost SBGS to publish and stock pile the book and try to sell it? SBGS may have its funds tied up for a long time. Perhaps others that have been this route will share their experiences with us? Someone else wrote me and indicated she had previously communicated with Evelyn Bryan, who co-authored "Cemeteries of Upper Colleton County" and others, and that she doesn't want her work put on-line because she still has copies of her book for sale. This is perfectly understandable and every bit her right. If I had e-mail for her, I would look into buying one. As an aside, I would like to get a copy of Hiers Family Genealogy, too, but it is long out of print and the author indicated to me a few months back he was not planning a reprint. In closing, I would like to see the information made available to as many as possible, and I think the SBGS is probably making a mistake financially when (if) they publish a book. Best regards, John Sullivan Austin, Texas > -----Original Message----- > From: Judy Ballard [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 5:19 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SCCOLLET] On-line Cemeteries - another perspective! > > > Mr. Sullivan, > > Your attitude seems to be the same as that of a thief. Don't > purchase, > create, or legally obtain, but simple take whatever you want > because you > know someone has it. > > For your information, I am one of the few members who organized the > Genealogy chapter that you mention. Our members have spent many hours > assisting people on the net and by snailmail in obtaining information > information on their ancestors for free, simply by asking > nicely. We will > not be intimidated by any childish bully who thinks the world owes him > anything he wants while he sits playing at his computer. > > The subject cemetery information is almost ready to go to > press. Hopefully, > within the next 6 months it will be made available to all. > For 3 years our > members have worked very hard to acquire information that was to be > published and preserved to enable it to help people find > their loved ones. > No one else would do the project, so we are. > > Shame on you. > > Judy > Treasurer > Old St. Bartholomew Chapter > > and darn proud of our work too. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sullivan, John <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 3:28 PM > Subject: [SCCOLLET] On-line Cemeteries - another perspective! > > > > Dear SC list, > > Welcome to the new millennium (some may say a year early). > > I was perfectly aware of why the Cemetery Listings were not > > on-line and I completely disagree with the reasoning. > > > > In my humble opinion: > > A few years ago, books were almost the only way to disseminate > information. > > > > The genealogical societies put out various books in order to > > share the information. Their clients were libraries, professional > > genealogists, and other genealogical societies, and probably a small > > number of individuals. I doubt if any of the publishers made any > > significant money, rather, I suspect most ventures lost money or > > broke even. We're not talking blockbuster novels on the NY > Times Best > > Seller list ("Cold Mountain"), we're talking about cemetery lists! > > > > As for the people who actually did the cemetery surveys, I suspect > > they did it simply because they wanted the information to > be available > > to more than the few people close enough to go to the cemeteries > themselves. > > > > In other words, they did it for the purpose of sharing the > information > with > > as many people as possible. That has been my experience > with the people > > where I live who have done surveys, including myself. > Labor of love, so > > they say. > > > > A professional genealogist or business certainly > > has the right to go do survey(s), compile them, hoard them, > and/or sell > > them. (Ever think about who holds the copyright on a tombstone > > inscription?) > > Family tree maker even gets people to give information to them so > > they can sell it to others. The donors do it to > disseminate the data and > > find others with similar interests. > > But should a local non-profit genealogical society be hoarding and > selling? > > > > Isn't part of its charter to make the information available. > > > > As I said before, welcome to the new millennium. The > internet is the best > > place in the world to share and disseminate information. > > Bad for hoarders and profiteers. > > > > And who knows when, if ever, the genealogical society will > publish their > > book. > > > > If people have done surveys in Colleton County and wish for them > > to be on-line, I would graciously accept them via e-mail and > > see about getting them published on the internet. please, > no copyrighted > > material unless you can send permission from the copyright holder. > > > > I was shocked to be told that the local genealogical society is in > > opposition to on-line publishing and the people maintaining > the local > > web site are on the side of keeping the information unavailable. > > > > You are probably getting this e-mail via a listserve sponsored by > > RootsWeb. Think about International Ships Transcribers Guild, > > on-line census pages and transcriptions, people who publish their > > family trees for the world to see, etc. Think about it! > > > > Best regards, > > > > John Sullivan > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jane Hurd [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:26 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [SCCOLLET] From List Manager: about St. Bart. > Genealogy Society > > > > OK folks, > > > > I understand their position. They are a non-profit > organization. If they > > have local projects that want to complete, they must > generate revenue from > > membership dues, publishing books, etc. > > > > If I did research for a book or wrote a novel, I wouldn't > give permssion > to > > somebody else to post it on their web page. If I posted it without > > permission, it's called copyright violation. > > > > I wouldn't give someone permission to post the cemeteries > online as long > as > > I was trying to sell the book. That's not using good > business sense. > > > > The fact that the Dorchester cemeteries are online is through the > generosity > > > > of the surviving authors. The books were published in > 1978, 1979 and are > > OUT OF PRINT. Very few copies are in the hands of > libraries and most > > libraries who have them, don't allow them released on > interlibrary loan. > > > > I can not post the cemeteries online without their group's > permission. > > I can not volunteer (or have anyone else do it) to do > lookups without > their > > group's permission. > > I, like most of you do not live in South Carolina, so I > don't have fast > > access to the cemeteries. > > > > Why not try joining the group, making some friends in the > group (several > of > > them live in Colleton County) and asking them to check the > local records? > > > > The Old St. Bartholomew Genealogical Chapter > > 104 Wade Hampton Ave. > > Walterboro, SC 29488 > > > > Their monthly meetings are held on the second Sunday of > each month, except > > July and Aug. at the Library Annex, 615 Hampton St.,at 3:00 PM. > > > > If you are interested in joining this chapter of The South Carolina > > Genealogical Society, their yearly dues are > > > > individual $12.00 > > family $18.00 > > associate $8.00 > > > > NOTE - Associate dues apply if you are already a member of > another chapter > > of The South Carolina Genealogical Society; your state dues > were paid by > the > > > > first chapter you had joined. > > > > I do know the frustration of not having access to the > records that pertain > > to your ancestors. The fact that Sherman marched through > South Carolina > and > > > > burned courthouses makes all of our research frustrating. > > > > Thanks for reading this. I'm sorry if you can't see it > from their point > of > > view. Can someone post the status of the book? > > > > Jane Hurd > > [email protected] > > > > Colleton County SCGenWeb > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Sullivan, John" <[email protected]> > > >To: [email protected] > > >Subject: [SCCOLLET] Need Help Colleton County Cemeteries > > >Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:51:19 -0600 > > > > > >I need help finding a few ancestors in Colleton. > > >There seem to be almost no Colleton Cemeteries on-line, > > >and have been told there is opposition to making them > > >available on-line so that Colleton Historical Society > > >can (someday?) make a book with them and sell them. > > > > > >I have looked in "Cemeteries of Upper Colleton County", > > >but Walterboro/mid/lower Colleton County are a problem. > > > > > >Anyone out there have the information available and > > >are willing to do a few look-ups for me? > > > > > >Thank you, > > > > > >John Sullivan > > >Austin, Texas > > > > > > > > >==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > >Visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_colleton.html > > >Colleton Co - American Local History Network > > > > > >============================== > > >Free Web space. ANY amount. ANY subject. > > >RootsWeb's Freepages put you in touch with millions. > > >http://cgi.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/acctform.cgi > > > > > > > > > Rootsweb has started a new discussion list for both Colleton and > Dorchester > > Cos. > > To subscribe: [email protected] or > > [email protected] > > with subscribe as the subject > > > > To post, use this shorter address: [email protected] > > [email protected] > > Jane Hurd > > [email protected] > > > > Colleton County SCGenWeb > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > > > > Colleton Co SC - American Local History Network > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_colleton.html > > > > Darlington County SCGenWeb > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/5641/ > > > > Darlington Co SC - American Local History Network > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_darlington.html > > > > Dorchester County SCGenWeb > > http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Union/1956/dorchester.html > > > > Union Co SC - American Local History Network > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_union.html > > > > Williamsburg Co SC - American Local History Network > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/1968/sc_williamsburg.html > > > > Jane's Space on the Web > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/jane-web.html > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > Visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > > Colleton Co SCGenWeb > > > > ============================== > > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > > Visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > > Colleton Co SCGenWeb > > > > ============================== > > The RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > > 12.8 million individuals and counting. > > http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > ==== SCCOLLET Mailing List ==== > Visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4197/colleton.html > Colleton Co SCGenWeb > > ============================== > Search ALL of RootsWeb's mailing lists in real time. > RootsWeb's Personalized Mailing Lists: > http://pml.rootsweb.com/ >