Elizabeth, It is amazing how many books can be purchased through Amazon.com at discounted prices. A neighbor of mine who recently went to Charleston turned me on to "Plantations of the Low Country" by Agnus Baldwin (no relation) which contains information about many plantations around Charleston from 1697 - 1845. Ironically the book contains some important references to my research on the HUME family. While the neighbor brought me photo copies of some of the information, I was able to order the book directly from Amazon.com...... and it was in stock and shipped the same day. Bill Baldwin Clearwater, FL.

Mary; Where can I get a copy of that "St. Thomas Parish Register" that you mention? Bill Maryd0318@aol.com wrote: > > Elizabeth...if you visit St. Thomas....be sure to check out the > cemetery....see if there is a tombstone for Mary Ann Saunders...she was one > of William Henry Mouzon's daughters (Ann's sister) and is listed inthe Parish > register as being buried there. > > You probably will want to check out Strawberrry Chapel....The Ball Family in > your lines are buried their. If you want i can send you a posting of their > tombstones before you go on the trip. > > ==== SCCHARLE Mailing List ==== > Lots of holdings on Charleston County Families > South Carolina Historical Society > http://www.schistory.org

Elizabeth, This is a very early example of what is known as a "Meets and Bounds" survey. Ironically this method was fairly commonly used until the 1940's or 50's when more precise methods were introduced. The description provides some clues.. frontage on the Cooper River, discussion about a marsh and "bounding on the bay". What one needs to look for is a plat map that may have recorded lot numbers (reference to lot#2). Obviously city or county / parish records record such information today. Best bet might be to find the city or county's recorder's office and commence your investigation there. Bill Baldwin Clearwater, FL.

The following information is taken from the Guide Textbook for Historic Charleston: St. Michael's (corner of Meeting and Broad) : begun in 1752 and completed in 1761. Stands on the site originally occupied from about 1682 to 1727 by the first St. Philip's (a black cypress structure on a brick foundation). It was taken down when the 2nd St. Philip's was completed on Church street (see below). St. Philip's Parish was divided in 1751 with the lower half becoming St. Michael's. ("In the southwest corner of the Churchyard is the cypress "Bedstead Tombstone," of Mary Luyton, placed in 1770; it is not really a bedstead, but a type of grave marker common in the 18th century") Huguenot Church (136 Church St) - organized 1680. First church built on this site in 1687 and blown up deliberately in 1796 in an attempt to arrest the great fire of that year. Another church was built in 1800. Present structure built in 1844-45. (Tablets on the walls are in memory of various Huguenot ancestors). The Churchyard contains many early burials. St. Philip's (146 Church St) - organized 1680. First church, a frame structure, was built circa 1681 on present site of St. Michael's. Second church was built in 1710-23 on the present site. Constructed of brick. Church caught fire during the great conflagation of 1796 but was saved by a black boatman who ripped burning shingles from the roof. Building was burned to the ground by another fire in 1835. Church was rebuilt in 1835 - 38. Extensively damaged by earthquake of 1886. 1924, church damaged by a fire caused by lightening. Restoration completed in 1925 and extended the chancel by 23 1/2 feet to provide space for new organ and choirstalls. New construction was placed above graves and tombstones. Western Churchyard was set aside in 1768 for burial of "Strangers and transient white persons." Later used for members of the church. Northeast corner of the Eastern churchyard is the old Parish House. Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church (110 Calhoun St). original congregation free blacks and slaves. Organized in 1791 as Free African Society and built a church near Hanover and Amherst Streets. The congregation joined in 1818 the African Methodist Episcopal Church and name was changed to Bethel Circuit. Bethel Circuit in 1818 had about 1000 members. Church burned in 1822. Rebuilt and operated until 1834. Congregation met secretly until 1865 and formally reoganized.. Name Bethel, was changed to Emanuel . Church built in 1872 on present site. Damaged by 1886 earthquake, razed and replaced in 1891. Bethel Methodist Church (57 Pitt St). A group of Methodists from the Blue Meeting House in Cumberland Street purchased this site in 1797 and built the structure now called Old Bethel Methodist Church (which was moved in 1880 to 222 Calhoun St). Present Greek Doric temple was built 1852 - 53. Blue Meeting House (opposite 85 Cumberland St). First Methodist Church in the city. Built in 1787, church was later named the Cumberland Church, taking its name from the street. Old Bethel Methodist Church (222 Calhoun St.) - oldest structure of Methodism in Low crounty. 3rd oldest building in the city. Originally building stood on sw corn of Pitt and Clhoun. In 1852, frame building was moved to west end of church grounds and used for class meetings ob Bethel's black members after the present brick churcho f Bethel Methodist was built. IN 1880, the buidling was given to black members and rolled across Calhoun to the present location. Congreation today includes descendants of the 1880 congreation. Church built in 1797 l- 98 and was originally a plain meeting house, Circular Congregational Church - 150 Meeting Street - Established about 1681. Members were Huguenots, Scots and Irish presbyterians and congregationalists from New and old England. First building erected before 1695 was the White Meeting House. A new medting house was built in 1732. In 1804-06 the first circular church was built. Spire added in 1838. Structure was burned in fire of 1861 and ruins stood until shaken down by 1886 earthquake. Bricks from old structure used in present building built in 1890-92. Graveyard is one of oldest in the city. Hopefully this will clarify some things for everyone (or not). One thing for sure, it's not as simple and straightforward to find those 'old haunts' as we would like it to be. Pat

First, I apologize for duplicate posts to people on both lists I post this to. I need a d.o.b. of ANNA EDMONDS SMITH, d/o EDWARD DARRELL (DR.) SMITH and SARAH TUCKER NORTH; Grandaughter of JOSIAH SMITH and MARY ELIZABETH STEVENS. I know she married WM. GEO. WASHINGTON WESCOAT on 11/19/1833. On the 1850 census, there is an "Annie E., age 47" living with Wm. Wescoat, and a "Francis M. - age 43 (?)" living there also. I believe that this is Anna Edmonds and her sister, Francis "Fannie" Smith, but the dates of birth don't match up. However, the Ancestry.com site has her parents married in 1802, which would put a question to the much later birthdates of the children (16 years and more later). Also, the death date of the father is 1819, so Anna couldn't have been born in 1822. Does one of you LG Thomas Smith descendants have any definitive dates on these people? Deborah ................................................................................. iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? .................................................................................

I have seen membership lists on the St. PHilips microfiche at the public library. These covered a wide time frame as I recall. There were also minutes dating to the 1730s which might be of help to you. I believe these fiche are available at all the main repositories (public library, Library Society and SC Historical Society). ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Russo <elizabethrusso@home.com> To: <SCCHARLE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 3:03 PM Subject: [SCCHARLE] St. Philips > Cousin Betty kindly sent me references showing that the brother of my 7X > grandfather, JOHN CARNE, was baptising babies and marrying at St. > Philips, and I think John was probably there, too, but not showing up in > the register. > > Is there somewhere to look for the membership of St. Philips prior to > 1800? > > Thank you again, > > Elizabeth > > > ==== SCCHARLE Mailing List ==== > Another 'MUST' for South Carolina genealogical research > South Carolina Department of Archives and History > http://www.state.sc.us/scdah/ >

A note for all those looking for 'old' St. Philips graves. Yes, the St. MIchael's cemetery might be one place to look. but, many of the graves at that time did not have tombstones. Or... the tombstones that were erected have been moved (you will see many piled around the foundation of the churches throughout the city) or..... the destruction on the city in the intervening years, (e.g. hurricanes, earthquakes, fires, wars, etc.) might have done them in. There are examples of wooden markers in St. Michaels's that have survived (who knows how), but I wonder how many others have been lost. If the church record indicates a burial, you might not ever find the actual site. Plus, many families were buried on their own (or a relative's)property, especially if they had a plantation or country house and the while the minister might have performed the burial and/or funeral, the burial wasn't necessarily at the church cemetery. Best bet - check with the church parish office. I think they are most likely to know. Pat >

Now i know why I did not find my relative who family records said was buried at St. Philips...he is probably at the St.Michael's cemetery too.

Hi Pat, I need to clarify the cemetery of St. Philips. If we are looking for someone who died in the 1700s, we should be looking in the cemetery of St. Michaels instead of St. Philips? Does St. Philips on Church St. have the records of the people buried at St. Michaels?. or do we check with St. Michaels. I am glad to hear that St. Philips office was on the street of the church and not in the church itself. Unfortunately, I did not know that last summer when I was there for a couple of days and tried knocking on the door of the church during the day. There was no sign saying the office was in another location. Oh well.!!! I did find find a couple of relatives gravesites behind the church. I would have looked in the St. Michaels Cemetery had I known. Thanks for this information Betty

Elizabeth...if you visit St. Thomas....be sure to check out the cemetery....see if there is a tombstone for Mary Ann Saunders...she was one of William Henry Mouzon's daughters (Ann's sister) and is listed inthe Parish register as being buried there. You probably will want to check out Strawberrry Chapel....The Ball Family in your lines are buried their. If you want i can send you a posting of their tombstones before you go on the trip.

Haven't checked in a few years, but St. James, Goose Creek, used to have Easter Services. It is a lovely, small church. I don't know the date of its beginnings. linda mhoose@sc.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Russo <elizabethrusso@home.com> To: <SCCHARLE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: [SCCHARLE] CHRIST CHURCH, St. Philips, St. Thomas, St. James Goose Creek, Bethel > Now if JOHN CARNE and MARY HUTCHINSON were married in 1765, and he was > from Charleston [with a brother definitely at St. Philips], and she was > listed in their prenuptial agreement as being from Christ Church Parish, > and if he was known to have worked in Charleston--where would I most > likely find them? So far, I have found neither a marriage nor a burial > record for them in a church record--or anywhere else, for that matter, > except the prenup. > > Their daughter, ANN CLARKSON CARNE, married PETER DUBOIS--somewhere--16 > March 1797 [family records]. PETER DUBOIS was baptised in St. > Thomas/St. Denis; and he was listed in his father, PETER DUBOIS,' > household for the 1790 census in St. James, Goose Creek. This couple > was in Charleston from at least 1798 when their oldest was born until > the late 1830s, and were said to have attended Bethel Methodist as a > young couple. > > Now as I understand it, Bethel would be "Old Bethel" Methodist church, > which is the building now relocated to 222 Calhoun Street and has had > Black congregants since a schism back in the 1830s--by which time my > ancestors had moved on to Alabama. > > Old Bethel was originally built on the site now occupied by Bethel > Methodist church at 57 Pitt Street. But this current building at this > site was built well after the departure of my ancestors, so... > > ...if I want to worship at a church where my ancestors actually sat, how > about St. James Goose Creek, or St. Thomas or St. Denis, or Christ > Church? Are any of these original to prior to 1800 and currently having > services? How about Strawberry Chapel? How about Cumberland Methodist > Church--where my gggrandfather visited in 1821, coming back to > Charleston as a homesick 23-year-old from the wilds of Alabama? > > The Huguenot church--the focus of my fellow researchers on this upcoming > trip--was built in 1845 at a time when my ancestors had not been > Huguenots in decades, and my DUBOIS ancestors had long since left the > state. > > Maybe my best shot at finding something connected to my ancestors will > be standing on the grounds of these sites with old drawings or pictures > of moved buildings and imagining my best... > > Elizabeth DuBois Russo > > > ==== SCCHARLE Mailing List ==== > Lots of holdings on Charleston County Families > South Carolina Historical Society > http://www.schistory.org >

Now if JOHN CARNE and MARY HUTCHINSON were married in 1765, and he was from Charleston [with a brother definitely at St. Philips], and she was listed in their prenuptial agreement as being from Christ Church Parish, and if he was known to have worked in Charleston--where would I most likely find them? So far, I have found neither a marriage nor a burial record for them in a church record--or anywhere else, for that matter, except the prenup. Their daughter, ANN CLARKSON CARNE, married PETER DUBOIS--somewhere--16 March 1797 [family records]. PETER DUBOIS was baptised in St. Thomas/St. Denis; and he was listed in his father, PETER DUBOIS,' household for the 1790 census in St. James, Goose Creek. This couple was in Charleston from at least 1798 when their oldest was born until the late 1830s, and were said to have attended Bethel Methodist as a young couple. Now as I understand it, Bethel would be "Old Bethel" Methodist church, which is the building now relocated to 222 Calhoun Street and has had Black congregants since a schism back in the 1830s--by which time my ancestors had moved on to Alabama. Old Bethel was originally built on the site now occupied by Bethel Methodist church at 57 Pitt Street. But this current building at this site was built well after the departure of my ancestors, so... ...if I want to worship at a church where my ancestors actually sat, how about St. James Goose Creek, or St. Thomas or St. Denis, or Christ Church? Are any of these original to prior to 1800 and currently having services? How about Strawberry Chapel? How about Cumberland Methodist Church--where my gggrandfather visited in 1821, coming back to Charleston as a homesick 23-year-old from the wilds of Alabama? The Huguenot church--the focus of my fellow researchers on this upcoming trip--was built in 1845 at a time when my ancestors had not been Huguenots in decades, and my DUBOIS ancestors had long since left the state. Maybe my best shot at finding something connected to my ancestors will be standing on the grounds of these sites with old drawings or pictures of moved buildings and imagining my best... Elizabeth DuBois Russo

Cousin Betty kindly sent me references showing that the brother of my 7X grandfather, JOHN CARNE, was baptising babies and marrying at St. Philips, and I think John was probably there, too, but not showing up in the register. Is there somewhere to look for the membership of St. Philips prior to 1800? Thank you again, Elizabeth

Now perhaps I can figure out how best to spend some of my time in Charleston by determining where my ancestors actually worshipped. Ideally, I'm trying to spend either Good Friday or Easter Sunday in one of the actual churches any of the ancestors may have knelt. I hope to enlist the help of this good list yet again in this particular quest. First up, St. Philips and my HUTCHINSON ancestors--assuming I have the right Hutchinsons... One of my presumed ancestors, Dr. JOHN HUTCHINSON, was a trustee for St. Philips in 1720 and oversaw some of the building details for the second church. Now as I understand it, the second one was built on the present site--the first one having been on the site of the current St. Michaels--but is not the actual current church building which was built in 1835 because number 2 was burned completely. Now if the current St. Michaels was built in 1752 on the site of the "old" St. Philips, then it appears that I will not be able to be in the actual building Dr. Hutchinson worshipped. So, two questions: 1. Am I correct in my understanding? 2. Since he died between 1729 and 1731, are there records for those years indicating where people were buried? Several of his family members show up in the register for baptisms, marriages, and burials, but where would I find out where he was actually buried? Thank you again, list, and thank you as always to Betty for sending me the St. Philips register info [altho I can't find a reference for John's burial--did I miss it?]... Elizabeth

Their records have been published and are available at the main Chas. County Library on Calhoun and at the SCHS. Best wishes, Waring "Butch" Hills Mt. Pleasant, SC// > Is there somewhere to look for the membership of St. > Philips prior to > 1800? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

Okay, how about using the following land transaction as an example. Can someone tell me the best maps or ways to determine where this land is today? See why I'm anxious to get my hands on some good maps? This is just one example of several I'm dealing with. ------- This was the description in a 1724 deed of trust: JOHN HUTCHINSON, practitioner in physic... the N part of the S part of lot #2 with the brick mansion... HUTCHINSON conveys the N part of lot #2, bounding # on the Bay; No on JOSEPH BOON; W on a marsh of LANDGRAVE THOMAS SMITH; S on the S part of the lot belonging to JOHN HUTCHINSON & extending to the line dividing the 2 tenements of the brick house, going W by a line as the fence stands to W boundary of the N part of the lot; also the brick mansion on the N half occupied by PAUL JENNYS.... JOHN HUTCHINSON owns the southern part of lot #2 in Charleston fronting 51 ft. on Cooper River, bounding S 212 ft. on CAPT. MATHEW PORTER (formerly CAPT. GEORGE SMITH); W on a marsh of LANDGRAVE THOMAS SMITH; N on JOSEPH BOON; with a large brick house of 2 tenements, the S tenement occupied by JOHN HUTCHINSON, the N by PAUL JENNYS.

Elizabeth - I believe the lot numbers refer to the original lots that were laid out in Charleston (w/i the town walls). There are maps showing the lot numbers in books. I'm sure the SC Historical Society would know where to find it. Actually, the lot number is a fantastic clue. My deeds all seem to say bordering on Smith, Jones, Johnson and Brown (ugh!). Just kidding about the names, but you understand. Pat PS - Landgrave Thomas Smith, had lots of land in the original SC colony and I'm sure his lands are documented on file. ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Russo <elizabethrusso@home.com> To: <SCCHARLE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 2:32 PM Subject: [SCCHARLE] Mapping the land > Okay, how about using the following land transaction as an example. Can > someone tell me the best maps or ways to determine where this land is > today? See why I'm anxious to get my hands on some good maps? This is > just one example of several I'm dealing with. > > ------- > This was the description in a 1724 deed of trust: > > > JOHN HUTCHINSON, practitioner in physic... the N part of the S part of > lot #2 with the brick mansion... HUTCHINSON conveys the N part of lot > #2, bounding # on the Bay; No on JOSEPH BOON; W on a marsh of LANDGRAVE > THOMAS SMITH; S on the S part of the lot belonging to JOHN HUTCHINSON & > extending to the line dividing the 2 tenements of the brick house, going > W by a line as the fence stands to W boundary of the N part of the lot; > also the brick mansion on the N half occupied by PAUL JENNYS.... JOHN > HUTCHINSON owns the southern part of lot #2 in Charleston fronting 51 > ft. on Cooper River, bounding S 212 ft. on CAPT. MATHEW PORTER (formerly > CAPT. GEORGE SMITH); W on a marsh of LANDGRAVE THOMAS SMITH; N on JOSEPH > BOON; with a large brick house of 2 tenements, the S tenement occupied > by JOHN HUTCHINSON, the N by PAUL JENNYS. > > > ==== SCCHARLE Mailing List ==== > Be sure to visit the Charleston County SC Genealogy Site > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3577 >

Elizabeth - although the cemetery at St. Philips is open, it has limited hours. The cemetery on the same side of the street as the church is for 'native Charlestonians'. The one across the street is for 'non-native' (no prejudice here). Although, the church side has filled up more, you will find more recent 'natives' on the 'other side of the street'. Both cemeteries will be locked evenings. I will say, however, that the view from St. Philips cemetery toward the Circular Church when the dogwoods and azaleas are in bloom has got to be one of the best views in the city.! The Huguenot Cemetery is almost always locked. Unless there are services going on, you will have to get someone to let you in. The cemetery is not very large, so you could cover it when you go to services as you mentioned. St, Michaels cemetery is open longer hours and be aware that St. MIchaels is on the site of the old St. PHilips. So the cemetery for St. Philips in the 1700s was on the site that is St. MIchael's today. The current St. Philips church wasn't established on the Church street site until the 1800s. Pat > Lots of holdings on Charleston County Families > South Carolina Historical Society > http://www.schistory.org >

Hi Elizabeth, I think Edward covered most of the houses (Nathaniel Russell my favorite)...for something different the Aiken-Rhett House next to the Charleston Museum is not restored, but still has many original decorations/wallpaper etc. For your teenage boys, they may be more interested in Patriots Point, home to the Essex class aircraft carrier YORKTOWN (whose aircraft sank the Yamato, the largest battleship ever built at 72,000 tons), a submarine, destroyer and Coast Guard cutter. You can check the following link for more info <http://www.state.sc.us/patpt/>. The boat to Fort Sumter also leaves from Patriots Point and there is free parking. Have a great visit, Waring "Butch" Hills Mt. Pleasant, SC// --- Elizabeth Russo <elizabethrusso@home.com> wrote: > I am SO appreciating all the help I'm getting here. > May I beg > everyone's indulgence and ask for your top > recommendations of MUST SEE > Charleston places? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

Elizabeth....the Musuem shop at Drayton hall has a wonderful book collection....better take a charge card.....you don't want to run out of cash and be stuck eating fast food burgers the whole trip....Don't ask how much I spent....The plantation books, etc, are really worth it and you can enjoy them even more on those cold winter nights at home.Glad I made the investment....Haven't seen any of them in the stores up here in Maryland.