In a message dated 21/06/2004 10:38:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > I am trying to make a family crest of their heraldry Perhaps you are talking about the shield. The crest sits above the shield and usually consists of a single figure, i.e. an eagle. With supporters & crest, these would form a coat of arms if officially sanctioned. Who s "their"? Arnold