I guess I'm serious about Family genealogy since I've been working on it full time for 10 years and on DNA testing for 1-1/2 years. 10 months didn't seem to long to me. All of the people who have joined our DNA project have only one reason for joining, to break down their brick wall for their Baird ancestor. They want to identify the unknown Baird who is next in their ancestry. They care very little about their deep ancestry or in identifying genetic connection to men with different surnames whose connection to them probably occurred prior to the time when surnames were adopted. I stand by my assertion that the 12 marker test is a cost effective approach to assist them in directing their research efforts because it worked for me and it has worked for others. For some of our members who have unique 12 marker haplotypes, it is sufficient. However, for others, myself included, who have a more common 12 marker haplotype for our Baird surname, additional markers are necessary to refine the research efforts. I agree that for these men, additonal markers, and especially markers with high mutation rates, are required. But, even with 37+ markers, there is no such thing as "absolute proof" of a lineage connection. The only thing it provides is guidance for directing your research efforts. In other words, if I match a man exactly on all 37 markers and he has documented his Baird line way back past when my ggg-grandfather, James Baird m. Sarah Wade in 1789 (my first record) I still need to find the documentation which tells me who in his Baird line is also my closest ancestor. It could be anyone in his line from his gggg-grandfather (if our generations closely fit) to about his 30th great grandfather (about when surnames were adopted). I could say the same thing for a man who I matched on 12 out of 12 markers. The thing that the 37 marker test does is skew the probability distribution curve toward the nearer generations, so it is more probable that your match is closer to the nearer generations than the farther generations. But we genealogists do not like to rely on probability data. The DNA companies talk about our ancestor being within a certain generation range with a probability of 50% or something like that. I want to know my exact ancestor with a probability of 98%, which is about what I can expect from a birth record that the named father is a true father. None of the preseantly available Y chromosome DNA tests are anywhere close to being that accurate. Since you mentioned 37 marker testing, I assumed you were referring to FTDNA since they are the only company who offers the 37 marker test. I have read several of Charles Kerchner's papers and he discusses the FTDNA 37 marker test in one of them. Relative Genetics (RG), who you mentioned, only offers an 18, 26, or 43 marker test, not the 37 marker test. Bruce Baird In a message dated 2/14/2006 1:33:48 PM Central Standard Time, Herb_316@msn.com writes: Ten months is a life time to most people serious about Family genealogy. 12 mrker testing tells you are not serious for how do you even know which of many surnames is correct. That is why 37+ marker testing is serious business. We use it excusively 37+. Simple. To get an absolute proof with lineages of a connection you need 37 markers. Suggest you do a search of Charles Kerchner and his his documents. You apparently have not found out that DNA testing companies like to tell little white lies and lead you down the path that takes forever to find out your connections and to spend a few more $. Seriously you need to read Charles Kerchner's web site and e-mail him and get on board serious DNA testing. The stage of testing has far passed 37+ markers to SNP and deep clades if you are serious. Whoever said any name of any one company. We offer their choice however people who want good deal and with good results in a short period of time less than four weeks from start to finish RG is the company. Read Kerchner see what real experience teaches you. Herb Hendricks

Talk with an expert. You obviously need to do this. Charles Kerchner. Your time in research is miniscule to a lot of people out here. Why not open up your mind and see real results and try to keep from living in your own surname you might learn something. Join Genealogy DNA-L and learn also. 37+. Looking up your project count you should be getting in the regime where you are beginning to get enough groups that 37+ markers start separating people in groups. Doing just 12 and 25 markers leads to many many false positive conclusions. Read Charles Kerchner. Get out of your own experience see what other people say. Herb Hendricks Retired NASA Physicist Hendricks DNA Project Group Administrator Secretary Hendricks Family Association Herb_316@MSN.com<mailto:Herb_316@MSN.com> 1210 Long Meadow DR Lynchburg, VA 24502 434 832 7246 Major/Smith/Hendricks http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/<http://www.ftdna.com/public/hendricks/> ----- Original Message ----- From: Bbairdsr@aol.com<mailto:Bbairdsr@aol.com> To: SC-Genealogy-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:SC-Genealogy-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [SC] RE: [SCEDGEFI] Genealogy and Genetics I guess I'm serious about Family genealogy since I've been working on it full time for 10 years and on DNA testing for 1-1/2 years. 10 months didn't seem to long to me. All of the people who have joined our DNA project have only one reason for joining, to break down their brick wall for their Baird ancestor. They want to identify the unknown Baird who is next in their ancestry. They care very little about their deep ancestry or in identifying genetic connection to men with different surnames whose connection to them probably occurred prior to the time when surnames were adopted. I stand by my assertion that the 12 marker test is a cost effective approach to assist them in directing their research efforts because it worked for me and it has worked for others. For some of our members who have unique 12 marker haplotypes, it is sufficient. However, for others, myself included, who have a more common 12 marker haplotype for our Baird surname, additional markers are necessary to refine the research efforts. I agree that for these men, additonal markers, and especially markers with high mutation rates, are required. But, even with 37+ markers, there is no such thing as "absolute proof" of a lineage connection. The only thing it provides is guidance for directing your research efforts. In other words, if I match a man exactly on all 37 markers and he has documented his Baird line way back past when my ggg-grandfather, James Baird m. Sarah Wade in 1789 (my first record) I still need to find the documentation which tells me who in his Baird line is also my closest ancestor. It could be anyone in his line from his gggg-grandfather (if our generations closely fit) to about his 30th great grandfather (about when surnames were adopted). I could say the same thing for a man who I matched on 12 out of 12 markers. The thing that the 37 marker test does is skew the probability distribution curve toward the nearer generations, so it is more probable that your match is closer to the nearer generations than the farther generations. But we genealogists do not like to rely on probability data. The DNA companies talk about our ancestor being within a certain generation range with a probability of 50% or something like that. I want to know my exact ancestor with a probability of 98%, which is about what I can expect from a birth record that the named father is a true father. None of the preseantly available Y chromosome DNA tests are anywhere close to being that accurate. Since you mentioned 37 marker testing, I assumed you were referring to FTDNA since they are the only company who offers the 37 marker test. I have read several of Charles Kerchner's papers and he discusses the FTDNA 37 marker test in one of them. Relative Genetics (RG), who you mentioned, only offers an 18, 26, or 43 marker test, not the 37 marker test. Bruce Baird In a message dated 2/14/2006 1:33:48 PM Central Standard Time, Herb_316@msn.com<mailto:Herb_316@msn.com> writes: Ten months is a life time to most people serious about Family genealogy. 12 mrker testing tells you are not serious for how do you even know which of many surnames is correct. That is why 37+ marker testing is serious business. We use it excusively 37+. Simple. To get an absolute proof with lineages of a connection you need 37 markers. Suggest you do a search of Charles Kerchner and his his documents. You apparently have not found out that DNA testing companies like to tell little white lies and lead you down the path that takes forever to find out your connections and to spend a few more $. Seriously you need to read Charles Kerchner's web site and e-mail him and get on board serious DNA testing. The stage of testing has far passed 37+ markers to SNP and deep clades if you are serious. Whoever said any name of any one company. We offer their choice however people who want good deal and with good results in a short period of time less than four weeks from start to finish RG is the company. Read Kerchner see what real experience teaches you. Herb Hendricks ==== SC-Genealogy Mailing List ==== If you are leaving your current ISP, please unsubscribe! 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