Thanks for this good info. I had always assumed that Ralph was not and never had been a member, but your material indicates that he was at one time, though disowned. All of the references after his disownment were to Sarah only, though they were together until his death in 1841 in Indiana. All of the pieces are beginning to fit with the help of you and others. In a message dated 1/11/2012 4:46:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, hhimrey@gmail.com writes: Sarah Hasket Campbell was disowned by Bush River MM because of her marriage to Ralph Campbell, who had been disowned the previous year. By 1809, Sarah--but not Ralph--was once again a member of Bush River. The meeting was still technically a Monthly Meeting (because not laid down until ~1822), but it functioned more as a Preparative Meeting. The Yearly Meeting had advised the Bush River trustees to sell the meetinghouse and other property in 1806. In 1809, the minority of members who remained in SC were transferred to New Garden MM (Guilford Co NC) for purposes of transacting business. They continued attending local worship meetings as well as their preparative meeting onsite at Bush River, but representatives had to travel to NC in order to handle the business matters for which a Monthly Meeting was required. Sarah Campbell was apparently re-instated in the meeting following a formal condemnation of her misconduct. The extant Bush River women's minutes cover only the years 1791-1801. They include no "con her mou" entry for Sarah Campbell, so she must have done that between 1801 and 1809. I was curious about the nature of those "condemnation" proceedings. E.g., did they have to grovel and produce tearful apologies for wrongdoing? That doesn't seem very Quaker-like, since the community was well aware that human beings are not prone to 100% perfection of behavior, even when they aspire to it. I looked around until I found a reference for the exact wording of a letter seeking re-admission. Search on <"Abraham Woodward" peace Quakers> to locate his biography, which contains the wording of two letters re condemnation of behavior, one unsuccessful and the second one successful. It was necessary to state exactly what one had done in violation of community standards, i.e., acknowledge one's specific faults, and ask to be received in fellowship again. A generic "I'm sorry that I messed up" was insufficient. Nobody expected a promise that "I'll never do anything wrong again in my whole life," just a statement that you were aware of the nature of your previous failure to live up to group norms. The former member did not apologize for the marriage itself, or for continuing to live with the non-Quaker spouse, just for the fact of having contracted a marriage by a process "contrary to discipline". Two currently-active Quakers might also marry contrary to discipline, if they skipped the announcements at their MM's, or had a J.P. or a non-Quaker minister conduct the ceremony. Then each would acknowledge their specific faults to their meeting, and hope for the best. Harriet Imrey On 1/11/2012 5:58 AM, Judith F. Russell wrote: > forwarded with permission... > > Do you mind if I ask a couple of Quaker questions? > > In the Bush River MM 1794, 4, 26 under Campbell "Sarah (form Hasket) dis mou". Her marriage was to Ralph Campbell who was not a Quaker. > > In the New Garden MM 1809, 6, 24 "Sarah, of Bush River, S.C., rec in mbrp on minute from New Garden QM. > > Questions: > (1) Would Sarah have been re-instated to membership thou still "mou"? She and Ralph > were married until his death in 1841. > (2) Sarah and Ralph were still in Newberry in the 1810 census. Why was she received > in the New Garden MM in 1809? Had Bush River MM been dissolved by then? > > They ended up in Hamilton County, IN in 1836. Is there a place on the internet to find minutes from Richland-Carmel MM? > > Thanks for your help > > Gene Campbell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just ordered the microfilm of the Cane Creek MM (North Carolina) original minutes. I have been told by librarians at Guilford College Hege library that there is almost never anything in the original that Hinshaw and his cohorts did not transcribe....however, "hope spring eternal" .....I decided that I wanted to read for myself what was said when Abigail Moore was dis mou at Cane Creek and also her brother Mordecai Moore (my 6-gr-grandrather) when he was dis for mou. While I was on the LDS FHL site, I also ordered film #255078 Bush River Monthly Meeting of Friends Worth, Laura D, Hinshaw, William Wade, 1867-1947, Society of Friends. Bush River Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Cane Creek Monthly Meeting (Union County, South Carolina), Society of Friends. Piney Grove Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Wrightborough Monthly Meeting (Georgia) This title came up when I used Cane Creek as my Keyword in the Beta version of the LDS library. It reminds me of how interconnected the MM and areas in NC, SC, and Wrightsboro were in the time period. I don't expect to read anything new....but as I said before.....hope spring eternal. marsha moses > I was curious about the nature of those "condemnation" proceedings. > E.g., did they have to grovel and produce tearful apologies for > wrongdoing? That doesn't seem very Quaker-like, since the community was > well aware that human beings are not prone to 100% perfection of > behavior, even when they aspire to it. I looked around until I found a > reference for the exact wording of a letter seeking re-admission. > Search on <"Abraham Woodward" peace Quakers> to locate his biography, > which contains the wording of two letters re condemnation of behavior, > one unsuccessful and the second one successful. It was necessary to > state exactly what one had done in violation of community standards, > i.e., acknowledge one's specific faults, and ask to be received in > fellowship again. A generic "I'm sorry that I messed up" was > insufficient. Nobody expected a promise that "I'll never do anything > wrong again in my whole life," just a statement that you were aware of > the nature of your previous failure to live up to group norms. The > former member did not apologize for the marriage itself, or for > continuing to live with the non-Quaker spouse, just for the fact of > having contracted a marriage by a process "contrary to discipline". Two > currently-active Quakers might also marry contrary to discipline, if > they skipped the announcements at their MM's, or had a J.P. or a > non-Quaker minister conduct the ceremony. Then each would acknowledge > their specific faults to their meeting, and hope for the best. > > Harriet Imrey

Marsha, I have the Bush River Quakers transcribed on my Newberry County, Genealogy Trails website http://genealogytrails.com/scar/newberry/bush_river_quakers.htm   In time, I'm hoping to get more Quaker Mtg. online Dena ________________________________ From: marsha moses <mosesm@earthlink.net> To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 1:20 PM Subject: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Quaker dis mou etc I just ordered the microfilm of the Cane Creek MM (North Carolina) original minutes.  I have been told by librarians at Guilford College Hege library that there is almost never anything in the original that Hinshaw and his cohorts did not transcribe....however, "hope spring eternal" .....I decided that I wanted to read for myself what was said when Abigail Moore was dis mou at Cane Creek and also her brother Mordecai Moore (my 6-gr-grandrather) when he was dis for mou.  While I was on the LDS FHL site, I also ordered film #255078     Bush River Monthly Meeting of Friends Worth, Laura D, Hinshaw, William Wade, 1867-1947, Society of Friends. Bush River Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Cane Creek Monthly Meeting (Union County, South Carolina), Society of Friends. Piney Grove Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Wrightborough Monthly Meeting (Georgia) This title came up when I used Cane Creek as my Keyword in the Beta version of the LDS library.  It reminds me of how interconnected the MM and areas in NC, SC, and Wrightsboro were in the time period.  I don't expect to read anything new....but as I said before.....hope spring eternal.  marsha moses > I was curious about the nature of those  "condemnation" proceedings.  > E.g., did they have to grovel and  produce tearful apologies for > wrongdoing?  That doesn't seem very  Quaker-like, since the community was > well aware that human beings are not  prone to 100% perfection of > behavior, even when they aspire to it.  I  looked around until I found a > reference for the exact wording of a letter  seeking re-admission.  > Search on <"Abraham Woodward" peace  Quakers> to locate his biography, > which contains the wording of two  letters re condemnation of behavior, > one unsuccessful and the second one  successful.  It was necessary to > state exactly what one had done in  violation of community standards, > i.e., acknowledge one's specific faults,  and ask to be received in > fellowship again.  A generic "I'm sorry  that I messed up" was > insufficient.  Nobody expected a promise that  "I'll never do anything > wrong again in my whole life," just a statement  that you were aware of > the nature of your previous failure to live up to  group norms.  The > former member did not apologize for the marriage  itself, or for > continuing to live with the non-Quaker spouse, just for the  fact of > having contracted a marriage by a process "contrary to  discipline".  Two > currently-active Quakers might also marry contrary  to discipline, if > they skipped the announcements at their MM's, or had a  J.P. or a > non-Quaker minister conduct the ceremony.  Then each would  acknowledge > their specific faults to their meeting, and hope for the  best. > > Harriet Imrey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Marsha--What that librarian at Guilford told you ("almost never anything in the original that Hinshaw & cohorts did not transcribe") is just not true. Back in the 20's when Hinshaw made the arrangement, with the Meetings directly or with Guilford, I'm not sure, to transcribe the minutes, they agreed, but only on the condition that nothing would be transcribed that could be considered sensitive or derogatory. In my own family, I know of 3 instances where info of interest was in the original minutes, but was not transcribed. A cousin of mine, Gordon Bowles, couldn't understand why 2 of our families were not in the records (Pasquotank mm I assume). When he went back to the original records, he found both families listed, in their entirety but each of those listings were marked thru with a big "X" and had not been transcribed--with no explanation for the marking out! While looking for this, he also found something of interest that we hadn't known to look for. An ancestor of ours at Pasquotank Mtg, Ephraim Overman m. Sarah Belman in 1708. They had 7 children and then he died. In 1734 Sarah Belman Overman re-married--to Nathaniel Martin. Four years later (1738) there is a note "Nathaniel Martin disowned"--with no explanation. My cousin, Gordon, from the original minutes found what had happened. Sarah (Belman) Martin had gone to the Friends' Colony in Opecking, VA to visit her married daughter, and while she was gone, her husband, Nathaniel Martin got the young housekeeper pregnant. Sarah then asked for a permanent transfer of her membership to her daughter's home, which the mtg took a while to consider, since it was unheard of for a woman to transfer her membership without her husband. However, they finally agreed and she did move permanently to her daughter's home. Not in the Meeting records I don't think, but from some other source, I understand Gordon found evidence that Nathaniel Martin had then married the younger woman--though I don't know that Sarah ever officially got a divorce! On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:20 PM, marsha moses <mosesm@earthlink.net> wrote: > I just ordered the microfilm of the Cane Creek MM (North Carolina) original minutes.  I have been told by librarians at Guilford College Hege library that there is almost never anything in the original that Hinshaw and his cohorts did not transcribe....however, "hope spring eternal" .....I decided that I wanted to read for myself what was said when Abigail Moore was dis mou at Cane Creek and also her brother Mordecai Moore (my 6-gr-grandrather) when he was dis for mou. > > While I was on the LDS FHL site, I also ordered > > film #255078 > >    Bush River Monthly Meeting of Friends > Worth, Laura D, Hinshaw, William Wade, 1867-1947, Society of Friends. Bush River Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Cane Creek Monthly Meeting (Union County, South Carolina), Society of Friends. Piney Grove Monthly Meeting (South Carolina), Society of Friends. Wrightborough Monthly Meeting (Georgia) > > This title came up when I used Cane Creek as my Keyword in the Beta version of the LDS library.  It reminds me of how interconnected the MM and areas in NC, SC, and Wrightsboro were in the time period.  I don't expect to read anything new....but as I said before.....hope spring eternal.  marsha moses > > >> I was curious about the nature of those  "condemnation" proceedings. >> E.g., did they have to grovel and  produce tearful apologies for >> wrongdoing?  That doesn't seem very  Quaker-like, since the community was >> well aware that human beings are not  prone to 100% perfection of >> behavior, even when they aspire to it.  I  looked around until I found a >> reference for the exact wording of a letter  seeking re-admission. >> Search on <"Abraham Woodward" peace  Quakers> to locate his biography, >> which contains the wording of two  letters re condemnation of behavior, >> one unsuccessful and the second one  successful.  It was necessary to >> state exactly what one had done in  violation of community standards, >> i.e., acknowledge one's specific faults,  and ask to be received in >> fellowship again.  A generic "I'm sorry  that I messed up" was >> insufficient.  Nobody expected a promise that  "I'll never do anything >> wrong again in my whole life," just a statement  that you were aware of >> the nature of your previous failure to live up to  group norms.  The >> former member did not apologize for the marriage  itself, or for >> continuing to live with the non-Quaker spouse, just for the  fact of >> having contracted a marriage by a process "contrary to  discipline".  Two >> currently-active Quakers might also marry contrary  to discipline, if >> they skipped the announcements at their MM's, or had a  J.P. or a >> non-Quaker minister conduct the ceremony.  Then each would  acknowledge >> their specific faults to their meeting, and hope for the  best. >> >> Harriet Imrey > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Joyce Joyce Overman Bowman 7877 Beanblossom Circle Indianapolis, IN 46256-1637 (317) 849-0995