brenda, I'm not sure how to go about that. Thanks for the suggestion. Sue Hunt besecker On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Brenda Brazell <sugarplumabc@yahoo.com>wrote: > Has anyone ever done the DNA test? This might could tell you what line, > but not necessarily what father for the baby. > > Brenda > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sue Besecker <suebee848@gmail.com> > To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? > > to Robert Cooper, Your explanation Of Quakerism was very interesting. My > 4 great grandmother Christianna Hunt was disowned by the BushRiver quaker > MM around 1801 for "unknown reasons". She and 4 of her siblings who were > also disowned because they "married out" went to Davies Co., Ky. later they > moved to Miami Co., Ohio where Christianna with her 6 year old son(Elijah) > married Thomas Penny. So we have come to the conclusion Christianna was an > unwed mother. Elijah was born 12-18-1800. So my family (Elijah's > descendants) are not Quakers. My grandfather (Ottwell) married my > granmother who was German Baptists, but they were not active in the > church. My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 10, and was raised by > his sister and her husband a Roman Catholic. So my grandfather wasn't > affillated with any religion. My grandparents had 15 children and the ones > who went to church made their own choices as to what church they wanted to > go to. > We are the only branch of Hunts in this area and we all derived from > Elijah. We'll never know who his real father was. We know that > Christianna's parents were Ralph(1738 NJ) and Rachel Campbell Hunt. we > would like to find who Ralph's father was. The Quaker ideas and concept > are very interesting to me. Thank you Sueellen Hunt Besecker > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Joy King <joyk@sc.rr.com> wrote: > > > Robert, > > > > I believe Nathan Cooper's 1st wife was Sarah MINTON. Please see this > > posting for details: > > > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS/2012-03/1332880775 > > > > Joy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Cooper > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:38 AM > > To: Brenda Brazell ; sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? > > > > 8.4w-a Sarah Cooper > > 8.4.1 Abigail\Lydia Cooper > > 8.4.2 Mary Cooper > > 8.4.3 Hannah Cooper > > 8.4.4 Julie Cooper > > 8.4w-b Keziah M Crocker > > 8.4.5 Nathan W Cooper > > 8.4.6 Sarah Cooper > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There are a few things you could try before considering a yDNA test. The testing in this case is not like looking for a needle in a haystack, but more like a needle in one of several hundred haystacks--some of which have disappeared already (i.e., many paternal lines manage to daughter-out over time, so there is no same-named male descendant who could submit a DNA test sample). The first step is to find out the reason that Christianna Hunt was disowned. The abstracted information published by Hinshaw does not include the details that were written down in the Women's Minutes of Cane Creek MM. The original book is the property of the North Carolina Yearly Meeting. I expect that you could contact them to find out how to get a copy of the minutes for 20 Jun 1801. After all, we don't "know" that Christianna was disowned because of an untimely pregnancy--that's just the simplest explanation that fits all the facts we know so far. The reason for disownment would need to be verified before you'd know what--if anything--you could do next. If the minutes say that she was disowned for having a child out of wedlock, then the place to look for the father is the bastardy bonds of Union Co SC. I'm pretty sure that those records still exist, although I haven't seen them myself. The Minutes of the County Court (including bastardy bonds) were collected and published by Brent H. Holcomb, and you could probably locate the book through inter-library loan. However, those records go only through 1799. A member of the Union Co SC RootsWeb List might know how to locate those for, say, 1800-1805. The bonds were not necessarily posted immediately following a birth. The father was responsible for support of an illegitimate child, and was required to post a bond with the county to guarantee that he would pay child support. Those bonds went into the public records, naming the father and the child, and usually the mother as well. Harriet Imrey On 6/26/2012 5:26 PM, Sue Besecker wrote: > brenda, I'm not sure how to go about that. Thanks for the suggestion. > Sue Hunt besecker > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Brenda Brazell<sugarplumabc@yahoo.com>wrote: > Has anyone ever done the DNA test? This might could tell you what line, but not necessarily what father for the baby. > > Brenda > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sue Besecker<suebee848@gmail.com> > To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? > > to Robert Cooper, Your explanation Of Quakerism was very interesting. My > 4 great grandmother Christianna Hunt was disowned by the BushRiver quaker > MM around 1801 for "unknown reasons". She and 4 of her siblings who were > also disowned because they "married out" went to Davies Co., Ky. later they > moved to Miami Co., Ohio where Christianna with her 6 year old son(Elijah) > married Thomas Penny. So we have come to the conclusion Christianna was an > unwed mother. Elijah was born 12-18-1800. So my family (Elijah's > descendants) are not Quakers. My grandfather (Ottwell) married my > granmother who was German Baptists, but they were not active in the > church. My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 10, and was raised by > his sister and her husband a Roman Catholic. So my grandfather wasn't > affillated with any religion. My grandparents had 15 children and the ones > who went to church made their own choices as to what church they wanted to > go to. > We are the only branch of Hunts in this area and we all derived from > Elijah. We'll never know who his real father was. We know that > Christianna's parents were Ralph(1738 NJ) and Rachel Campbell Hunt. we > would like to find who Ralph's father was. The Quaker ideas and concept > are very interesting to me. Thank you Sueellen Hunt Besecker

Never knew that, and never heard of that.  Interesting. Brenda ________________________________ From: Harriet Imrey <hhimrey@gmail.com> To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Elijah Hunt's father There are a few things you could try before considering a yDNA test.  The testing in this case is not like looking for a needle in a haystack, but more like a needle in one of several hundred haystacks--some of which have disappeared already (i.e., many paternal lines manage to daughter-out over time, so there is no same-named male descendant who could submit a DNA test sample). The first step is to find out the reason that Christianna Hunt was disowned.  The abstracted information published by Hinshaw does not include the details that were written down in the Women's Minutes of Cane Creek MM.  The original book is the property of the North Carolina Yearly Meeting.  I expect that you could contact them to find out how to get a copy of the minutes for 20 Jun 1801.  After all, we don't "know" that Christianna was disowned because of an untimely pregnancy--that's just the simplest explanation that fits all the facts we know so far.  The reason for disownment would need to be verified before you'd know what--if anything--you could do next. If the minutes say that she was disowned for having a child out of wedlock, then the place to look for the father is the bastardy bonds of Union Co SC.  I'm pretty sure that those records still exist, although I haven't seen them myself.  The Minutes of the County Court (including bastardy bonds) were collected and published by Brent H. Holcomb, and you could probably locate the book through inter-library loan.  However, those records go only through 1799.  A member of the Union Co SC RootsWeb List might know how to locate those for, say, 1800-1805.  The bonds were not necessarily posted immediately following a birth.  The father was responsible for support of an illegitimate child, and was required to post a bond with the county to guarantee that he would pay child support.  Those bonds went into the public records, naming the father and the child, and usually the mother as well. Harriet Imrey

I was thinking the same thing so I will jump here and hope you'all don't mind. I actually went to the "Hunt" DNA project to see if there was a "Ralph" of that time period already identified as the "eldest know relative" but I did not find one. My Ralph does not qualify or he would do it for you in a minute, You need a son of the original Ralph Hunt who has a son> who has a son> all the way to a living male descendent. He of course descends from later children and so Catherine Hunt is his ancestral grandmother . You need to find her brother's descendents (all male) for it to work. I do not have the Hunt line that defined in my database. My Ralph (my sister's husband who is a descendent) is typical in that he was most interested in the Magee line and the Penney line was done and I have gone no further as he seemed satisfied. If you find a male to male (starting with Catherine's father or one of her brothers) all the way to the present, it will not tell if they match other Hunts. If not, you will give have the surname of those males that have identical DNA and then will have to look to see who with that surname lived in her area and could have been the father of her child. We have no idea what occurred. Women married very young etc so it is all up to conjecture. I have two line that DNA has revealed when there was one a previous marriage most likely even though the bride was young and the child was raised with second's husbands surname and another where they were reprimanded and thrown out of church (not Quaker but Angilcan) and the Dna has proven that there was an "affair" and the child was raised with her first married name and she did marry the father after the first husband died (don't know if there is a stoy there !) The only issue is that if the DNA comes back and it not the "Hunt" surname, the male that you talked into being tested will need to know that there is a possibility that he is not really a "Hunt". This can be really difficult for some men to find out that they are not who they thought they were. I talked my neighbor into being tested for one of my family names, never thinking about the possibility that he would not "match" others with the same surname and I still have not told him the results after 5 years because I can not bring myself to tell him that he is actually from a completely different family and that a grandpa is not really a grandpa. It is fine with some people and they are glad to find out but I would be sure first. On 6/26/2012 6:26 PM, Sue Besecker wrote: > brenda, I'm not sure how to go about that. Thanks for the suggestion. > Sue Hunt besecker > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Brenda Brazell <sugarplumabc@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> Has anyone ever done the DNA test? This might could tell you what line, >> but not necessarily what father for the baby. >> >> Brenda >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Sue Besecker <suebee848@gmail.com> >> To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? >> >> to Robert Cooper, Your explanation Of Quakerism was very interesting. My >> 4 great grandmother Christianna Hunt was disowned by the BushRiver quaker >> MM around 1801 for "unknown reasons". She and 4 of her siblings who were >> also disowned because they "married out" went to Davies Co., Ky. later they >> moved to Miami Co., Ohio where Christianna with her 6 year old son(Elijah) >> married Thomas Penny. So we have come to the conclusion Christianna was an >> unwed mother. Elijah was born 12-18-1800. So my family (Elijah's >> descendants) are not Quakers. My grandfather (Ottwell) married my >> granmother who was German Baptists, but they were not active in the >> church. My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 10, and was raised by >> his sister and her husband a Roman Catholic. So my grandfather wasn't >> affillated with any religion. My grandparents had 15 children and the ones >> who went to church made their own choices as to what church they wanted to >> go to. >> We are the only branch of Hunts in this area and we all derived from >> Elijah. We'll never know who his real father was. We know that >> Christianna's parents were Ralph(1738 NJ) and Rachel Campbell Hunt. we >> would like to find who Ralph's father was. The Quaker ideas and concept >> are very interesting to me. Thank you Sueellen Hunt Besecker >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Joy King <joyk@sc.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> Robert, >>> >>> I believe Nathan Cooper's 1st wife was Sarah MINTON. Please see this >>> posting for details: >>> >>> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS/2012-03/1332880775 >>> Joy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Cooper >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:38 AM >>> To: Brenda Brazell ; sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? >>> >>> 8.4w-a Sarah Cooper >>> 8.4.1 Abigail\Lydia Cooper >>> 8.4.2 Mary Cooper >>> 8.4.3 Hannah Cooper >>> 8.4.4 Julie Cooper >>> 8.4w-b Keziah M Crocker >>> 8.4.5 Nathan W Cooper >>> 8.4.6 Sarah Cooper >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yes, but where was the affair, it could have been many generations up.  And I know looking at the orphan train records, when parents died and left a child with no one, someone adopted them, and gave them a new name.  So if an ancestor was an orphan, they could have different lineage than the family who adopted them.  Sometimes a family member took them in, but many times a friend of the family.  Unless you had DNA from a gg grandfather, you would not know where the line changed. Some of the orphan train records show prior names as well as new names.  Not all children were on the trains that were sent out looking for parents, some were adopted locally, but still found those records called orphan trains. It was a possibility for an orphan train for my Seth since his father died before he was born.  Where is his mother?  Did she die when he was born or a small child?  Possibly remarried, and Robinson is next husband's name, and we are not even Robinson's?  Questions, Questions. I would hesitate to tell a neighbor also. He would have to have siblings, cousins, etc tested to see if was him or further up the line.  Since my brother and I both took our looks after my dad's side of the family, I think I would be safe for him.  Now what happened further up the tree, unknown.  But when I see lots of early Robinson's pictures, I see a lot of family resemblances.  Maybe I should wait until my mom passes, then will not matter if it came out.  LOL Brenda ________________________________ From: Vivian <vivm2007@woh.rr.com> To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? I was thinking the same thing so I will jump here and hope you'all don't mind.  I actually went to the "Hunt" DNA project to see if there was a "Ralph" of that time period already identified as the "eldest know relative" but I did not find one.  My Ralph does not qualify or he would do it for you in a minute,  You need a son of the original Ralph Hunt who has a son> who has a son> all the way to a living male descendent.  He of course descends from later children and so Catherine Hunt is his ancestral grandmother .  You need to find her brother's descendents (all male) for it to work.  I do not have the Hunt line that defined in my database.  My Ralph (my sister's husband who is a descendent)  is typical in that he was most interested in the Magee line and the Penney line was done and I have gone no further as he seemed satisfied. If you find a male to male (starting with Catherine's father or one of her brothers) all the way to the present, it will not tell if they match other Hunts.  If not, you  will give have the surname of those males that have identical DNA and then will have to look to see who with that surname lived in her area and could have been the father of her child.  We have no idea what occurred.  Women married very young etc so it is all up to conjecture.  I have two line that DNA has revealed when there was one a previous marriage most likely even though the bride was young and the child was raised with second's husbands surname and another where they were reprimanded and thrown out of church (not Quaker but Angilcan) and the Dna has proven that there was an "affair" and the child was raised with her first married name and she did marry the father after the first husband died (don't know if there is a stoy there !) The only issue is that if the DNA comes back and it not the "Hunt" surname, the male that you talked into being tested will need to know that there is a possibility that he is not really a "Hunt". This can be really difficult for some men to find out that they are not who they thought they were.  I talked my neighbor into being tested for one of my family names, never thinking about the possibility that he would not "match" others with the same surname and I still have not told him the results after 5 years because I can not bring myself to tell him that he is actually from a completely different family and that a grandpa is not really a grandpa.  It is fine with some people and they are glad to find out but I would be sure first. On 6/26/2012 6:26 PM, Sue Besecker wrote: > brenda,  I'm not sure how to go about that.  Thanks for the suggestion. > Sue Hunt besecker > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Brenda Brazell <sugarplumabc@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> Has anyone ever done the DNA test?  This might could tell you what line, >> but not necessarily what father for the baby. >> >> Brenda >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >>  From: Sue Besecker <suebee848@gmail.com> >> To: sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? >> >> to Robert Cooper,  Your explanation Of Quakerism was very interesting.  My >> 4 great grandmother Christianna Hunt was disowned by the BushRiver quaker >> MM around 1801 for "unknown reasons".  She and 4 of her siblings who were >> also disowned because they "married out" went to Davies Co., Ky. later they >> moved to Miami Co., Ohio where Christianna with her 6 year old son(Elijah) >> married Thomas Penny.  So we have come to the conclusion Christianna was an >> unwed mother.  Elijah was born 12-18-1800. So my family (Elijah's >> descendants) are not Quakers.  My grandfather (Ottwell) married my >> granmother who was German Baptists, but they were not active in the >> church.  My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 10, and was raised by >> his sister and her husband a Roman Catholic.  So my grandfather wasn't >> affillated with any religion.  My grandparents had 15 children and the ones >> who went to church made their own choices as to what church they wanted to >> go to. >> We are the only branch of Hunts in this area and we all derived from >> Elijah.  We'll never know who his real father was.  We know that >> Christianna's parents were Ralph(1738 NJ) and Rachel Campbell Hunt.  we >> would like to find who Ralph's father was.  The Quaker ideas and concept >> are very interesting to me.  Thank you Sueellen Hunt Besecker >> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Joy King <joyk@sc.rr.com> wrote: >> >>> Robert, >>> >>> I believe Nathan Cooper's 1st wife was Sarah MINTON.  Please see this >>> posting for details: >>> >>> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS/2012-03/1332880775 >>> Joy >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Cooper >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 4:38 AM >>> To: Brenda Brazell ; sc-bushriverquakers@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] From Quaker to Baptist in Newberry ? >>> >>> 8.4w-a Sarah Cooper >>>  8.4.1 Abigail\Lydia Cooper >>>  8.4.2 Mary Cooper >>>  8.4.3 Hannah Cooper >>>  8.4.4 Julie Cooper >>> 8.4w-b Keziah M Crocker >>>  8.4.5 Nathan W Cooper >>>  8.4.6 Sarah Cooper >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message