I looked at wills in the courthouse at Newberry on Friday morning of the weekend of the Homecoming of 2008. I actually copied the date filed, the name of the estate, the executor/administrator, box#, and Estate # of six Thomas wills...filed 1795-1817....then made the note that there are more Thomas wills in the early to mid 1800's....but here are the ones that I copied: 1796 Nehemiah Thomas with executrix Abigail Thomas ( I know this man to be brother/uncle to my Sarah Thomas McKinsey) 1803 John Thomas with admr. Sameul Beeks 1805 Abel Thomas with executors T. Thomas and S. Gaunt (When I copied this I didn't know that the during the weekend I would get to know the Gaunt family so well...) ( I made a copy of the original of this will) 1817 Ann Thomas with William Reagan Executor 1817 Daniel Thomas with Henry and William Grey Admrs. 1795 Joseph Thompson with Richard Thomas Admr. (I know that the Thompson and Thomas family were interrelated as I have a transcription from a book for Joseph Thompson OK I just looked at Abel Thomas's will briefly and see on the very front that the executors are Timothy Thomas, Samuel Guant and Jacob Hawkins.....wow....I know all of those names. What I don't know yet is if Abel Thomas is related to my Sarah Thomas McKinsey. Marsha

While in the courthouse I transcribed for my own use from deed book D-2 page 12 the following (Roberta I think that you will be particularly interested in the withnesses....) This indenture made this 21st day of January in the year of our lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-nine Between William Hilburn District 96 in SC, Farmer, on the one part and George McKinsey of the district of S.C., aforesaid district planter of the other part..... William Hilburn in consideration of the sum of ten shillings current money of S. C. .....paid by the said George McKinsey.... 100 acres on waters of Bush River, Bounding SE on said Hilburn, SW on Mathias Elmore and Thomas Shaw, Sr. ...other sides on variant lands....too hard to read.... Witnesses: William Hilburn John Elmore Abner Elmore marsha moses

Rappleye, Charles, Sons of Providence: The Brown Brothers, The Slave Trade and The American Revolution, (New York, NY: Simon and Schuster, 2006) ISBN-13:978-0-7432-6687-1 One family's rise to prominence in Rhode Island, brothers divided by ideology: slave trade vs antislavery movement. Quaker, Moses Brown 1738-1836 and trader, John Brown 1736-1803. A bird's eyeview of the period prior to, during and after the American Revolutionary War. Thank you Judith for your permission to post this book and comment. My blog address is supposed to be on the end of my messages. Here it is again for anyone interested in poking around and viewing items posted to date. I post stuff I find of interest and material relating to the Langford/Lankfords of America. Currently reading an interesting book that I will be posting after it has been completed. I don't post books that I found wanting in content or substance. http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com Poldi On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Poldi Tonin <[email protected]> wrote: > Marsha and all: > On my blog I have a list of books that I have read and recommend. One is > about the pre-Revolutionary War period in Rhode Island and the slave traders > and Quakers. > There are many, many references to the folks "going visiting" by ship to > Connecticut and Philadelphia. Also references to trade ships going to the > Carolinas and other ports coming and going to Africa and the Islands. > > Rather wary of recommending books on lists because some administrators > think that is commercialism. > > Poldi > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:56 AM, marsha moses <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Poldi, I had Nantucket Quaker family lines who moved to the Guilford >> County, NC area just before the Revolution. I haven't yet found a >> difinitive account of just how they made the trip. But I absolutely >> agree with you that it is most likely to have been via water. The >> people of Nantucket were seagoing. It is my gut feeling until I find >> documentation that either supports or negates my theory that they >> arrived in the port of >> >> > During the early eighteenth century, Edenton, NC was the second >> > largest port in the colonies. >> >> >> Here is a map showing the location of Edenton >> >> http://www.nchistoricsites.org/maps/eastern.htm >> >> And it seems to me that Edenton is in Perquimans County which had a >> large Quaker population. It would make sense to me that they would land >> there and get help from fellow Quakers to move inland from the port. So >> I absolutely agree that one can not rule out the southern ports such as >> Charleston and Savannah as the route that the Newberry ancestors might >> have used. Someone at the Homecoming told me that Charleston also had a >> large Quaker population in the 1700's. Marsha Moses >> >> >> Poldi Tonin wrote: >> >> >Ladies: >> >You have supplied interesting information on the roads and their rough >> >conditions. >> >Pleased to be able to add that to my little book of facts. >> > >> >Another travel route I have read about and which is often overlooked is >> that >> >of the coastal ship routes. The Quakers could have left from Philadelphia >> >(the Colonies largest port) and traveled under better circumstances to >> >Charleston, SC or perhaps Savannah. >> > >> >On one S.C. land document for my Welsh Davis family is a cryptic note >> "from >> >Georgia." >> >This family settled in Camden on Pine Tree Creek. >> > >> >Poldi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > > "She is insane, of course. The family history has become a mania for her." > Hercule Poirot > > http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Langford > This project includes Lankford spelling also. > > "Truth and reason are eternal. They have prevailed. And they will > eternally prevail; however, in times and places they may be overborne > for a while by violence, military, civil, or ecclesiastical." > --Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, 1810 > -- "She is insane, of course. The family history has become a mania for her." Hercule Poirot http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Langford This project includes Lankford spelling also. "Truth and reason are eternal. They have prevailed. And they will eternally prevail; however, in times and places they may be overborne for a while by violence, military, civil, or ecclesiastical." --Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, 1810

One of the things that I found a couple of spare minutes to do while attending the Bush River Homecoming 2008 this past weekend was to look at a book in the Newberry Library. The book is The Dutch Fork An Atlas of the Dutch Fork of Newberry District, SC by Carl W. Nichols. Dr. Nichols has copyright of 2001 with the words that none of the book may be reproduced without written permission of the author. Here is the address and information to order if anyone would want a copy: $45 ($40 + $5 for shipping and handling) to: Dr. Carl W. Nichols 2642 Cravey Drive NE Atlanta, Ga 30345 I made a few notes while I was in the library from this book: On page 62 there is a map showing the land of George McKinsey and Nelson Dunkin ....250 acres that sits where a road labeled 43 runs into a road that seems to come from Newberry environs south labeled 395. George and Nelson's names are shown in parentheses while a Thomas Shaw is at the top of the plat. There is a date of 23 Nov 1764 in the middle. After going to the courthouse briefly I believe that George bought land from Thos and Sarah Shaw Jan 8, 1773 according to deedbook D-2 page 6. George also bought land from Wm Hilburn with deed dated Jan 22, 1779. Both of these deeds were recorded June 16, 1797. I will wait until I received the book before I do anymore interpreting on this. But I did write down the neighbors and I would say that our ancestors were absolutely neighbors and lives entertwined! Here are some of the neighbors found on pages 62-63 of this book: Nehemiah Thomas 1767 whose land was on both sides of the Bush River and adjoined the land that Thomas Shaw had originally owned. Joseph Wright 1766. William McTeer/ Michael Dorman 1767 ---looks to have later been owned by Samuel Pearson, William Hilborn, Joseph Wright 1766, Peter Hawkins 1786, Israel Gaunt 1768---later Peter Hawkins, Isaac Thomas 1786, John Mills, William Mills 1767, Reason Reagan, Edward Thomas 1772--later Timothy Thomas, John Dobbins 1784.... I almost feel as if I know these people now that we have all been together for a weekend talking about the ancestors who lived in the Bush River area. Marsha Moses

Book recommendations are welcome on the list, along with brief discussions of their contents as they pertain to our discussions of our Southern Quakers and their ancestors. JudyR, list admin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Poldi Tonin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] The roads crept south... > Marsha and all: > On my blog I have a list of books that I have read and recommend. One is > about the pre-Revolutionary War period in Rhode Island and the slave > traders > and Quakers. > There are many, many references to the folks "going visiting" by ship to > Connecticut and Philadelphia. Also references to trade ships going to the > Carolinas and other ports coming and going to Africa and the Islands. > > Rather wary of recommending books on lists because some administrators > think > that is commercialism. > > Poldi > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:56 AM, marsha moses <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Poldi, I had Nantucket Quaker family lines who moved to the Guilford >> County, NC area just before the Revolution. I haven't yet found a >> difinitive account of just how they made the trip. But I absolutely >> agree with you that it is most likely to have been via water. The >> people of Nantucket were seagoing. It is my gut feeling until I find >> documentation that either supports or negates my theory that they >> arrived in the port of >> >> > During the early eighteenth century, Edenton, NC was the second >> > largest port in the colonies. >> >> >> Here is a map showing the location of Edenton >> >> http://www.nchistoricsites.org/maps/eastern.htm >> >> And it seems to me that Edenton is in Perquimans County which had a >> large Quaker population. It would make sense to me that they would land >> there and get help from fellow Quakers to move inland from the port. So >> I absolutely agree that one can not rule out the southern ports such as >> Charleston and Savannah as the route that the Newberry ancestors might >> have used. Someone at the Homecoming told me that Charleston also had a >> large Quaker population in the 1700's. Marsha Moses >> >> >> Poldi Tonin wrote: >> >> >Ladies: >> >You have supplied interesting information on the roads and their rough >> >conditions. >> >Pleased to be able to add that to my little book of facts. >> > >> >Another travel route I have read about and which is often overlooked is >> that >> >of the coastal ship routes. The Quakers could have left from >> >Philadelphia >> >(the Colonies largest port) and traveled under better circumstances to >> >Charleston, SC or perhaps Savannah. >> > >> >On one S.C. land document for my Welsh Davis family is a cryptic note >> "from >> >Georgia." >> >This family settled in Camden on Pine Tree Creek. >> > >> >Poldi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > > "She is insane, of course. The family history has become a mania for her." > Hercule Poirot > > http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Langford > This project includes Lankford spelling also. > > "Truth and reason are eternal. They have prevailed. And they will > eternally prevail; however, in times and places they may be overborne > for a while by violence, military, civil, or ecclesiastical." > --Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, 1810 > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 > 8:56 AM > >

Marsha and all: On my blog I have a list of books that I have read and recommend. One is about the pre-Revolutionary War period in Rhode Island and the slave traders and Quakers. There are many, many references to the folks "going visiting" by ship to Connecticut and Philadelphia. Also references to trade ships going to the Carolinas and other ports coming and going to Africa and the Islands. Rather wary of recommending books on lists because some administrators think that is commercialism. Poldi On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:56 AM, marsha moses <[email protected]> wrote: > Poldi, I had Nantucket Quaker family lines who moved to the Guilford > County, NC area just before the Revolution. I haven't yet found a > difinitive account of just how they made the trip. But I absolutely > agree with you that it is most likely to have been via water. The > people of Nantucket were seagoing. It is my gut feeling until I find > documentation that either supports or negates my theory that they > arrived in the port of > > > During the early eighteenth century, Edenton, NC was the second > > largest port in the colonies. > > > Here is a map showing the location of Edenton > > http://www.nchistoricsites.org/maps/eastern.htm > > And it seems to me that Edenton is in Perquimans County which had a > large Quaker population. It would make sense to me that they would land > there and get help from fellow Quakers to move inland from the port. So > I absolutely agree that one can not rule out the southern ports such as > Charleston and Savannah as the route that the Newberry ancestors might > have used. Someone at the Homecoming told me that Charleston also had a > large Quaker population in the 1700's. Marsha Moses > > > Poldi Tonin wrote: > > >Ladies: > >You have supplied interesting information on the roads and their rough > >conditions. > >Pleased to be able to add that to my little book of facts. > > > >Another travel route I have read about and which is often overlooked is > that > >of the coastal ship routes. The Quakers could have left from Philadelphia > >(the Colonies largest port) and traveled under better circumstances to > >Charleston, SC or perhaps Savannah. > > > >On one S.C. land document for my Welsh Davis family is a cryptic note > "from > >Georgia." > >This family settled in Camden on Pine Tree Creek. > > > >Poldi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "She is insane, of course. The family history has become a mania for her." Hercule Poirot http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Langford This project includes Lankford spelling also. "Truth and reason are eternal. They have prevailed. And they will eternally prevail; however, in times and places they may be overborne for a while by violence, military, civil, or ecclesiastical." --Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, 1810

Poldi, I had Nantucket Quaker family lines who moved to the Guilford County, NC area just before the Revolution. I haven't yet found a difinitive account of just how they made the trip. But I absolutely agree with you that it is most likely to have been via water. The people of Nantucket were seagoing. It is my gut feeling until I find documentation that either supports or negates my theory that they arrived in the port of > During the early eighteenth century, Edenton, NC was the second > largest port in the colonies. Here is a map showing the location of Edenton http://www.nchistoricsites.org/maps/eastern.htm And it seems to me that Edenton is in Perquimans County which had a large Quaker population. It would make sense to me that they would land there and get help from fellow Quakers to move inland from the port. So I absolutely agree that one can not rule out the southern ports such as Charleston and Savannah as the route that the Newberry ancestors might have used. Someone at the Homecoming told me that Charleston also had a large Quaker population in the 1700's. Marsha Moses Poldi Tonin wrote: >Ladies: >You have supplied interesting information on the roads and their rough >conditions. >Pleased to be able to add that to my little book of facts. > >Another travel route I have read about and which is often overlooked is that >of the coastal ship routes. The Quakers could have left from Philadelphia >(the Colonies largest port) and traveled under better circumstances to >Charleston, SC or perhaps Savannah. > >On one S.C. land document for my Welsh Davis family is a cryptic note "from >Georgia." >This family settled in Camden on Pine Tree Creek. > >Poldi > > > > > > > > >

Phil, that is VERY interesting! I am really looking forward to looking at Loudoun County. I need to crank up my PC and pull out my Hinshaw Encyclopedia CD. By the way, I did find a few things in Newberry that I'll share as soon as I finish unpacking. I don't think that it is anything really new and wonderful .....but I'll be back in touch when I get caught up. Marsha Phil Hawkins wrote: >Marsha, > >Re your below, my Quaker Hawkins in PA went to Loudoun Co., VA (Fairfax MM) >in the mid 1700s before coming to Bush River and Cane Creek MM. (from a book >by my father - ".... when the family moved to SC. It is said that James and >family lived in Loudoun Co., VA, long enough to find that it was a good >place to starve, this was by the records about 12 years."). > > > > > > >

Harriet I agree totally from my own travels in Scotland that: "Scotch is what we drink, Scots is who we are" But DON"T make the mistake of joining the Scotch-Irish mail list here in the US and trying to change anyone's mind over what the correct designation for that mail list is! One thing you can always depend on is that the Scotch-Irish/Scots-Irish are ALWAYS ready for a fight. Nothing makes that list owner more angry than to restart that hoolabaloo.... Again thanks for sharing all of your good information! I have added it to my files on migration in early times. Marsha Moses PS By the way, I meant to share one thing that was in the Rouse book on the Great Wagon Road that I forgot to share at the Homecoming. In 1735 two Moravians began a journey down the Great Warrior's Path which brought them five months later to Georgia. One of them, Leonhard Schell kept a diary that is said to give a faithful picture of the difficulties of traversing the Path. I had mentioned at the Homecoming that the Germans and Quakers tended to settle in the northern portion of the Shenandoah Valley (now near Winchester, Woodstock) while the Scotch-Irish settled in the rougher southern part of the valley (now near Staunton, Lexington). What Rouse recounts: Schell and his companion stayed with Jost Hite and while there agonized over trying to avoid the "dreaded Scotch-Irish" settlement to the south of the German/Quaker area. .....While detouring around the Scotch-Irish, Schnell and Hussey encountered a German family near Warrenton, Virginia.... I thought that was particulary interesting! Sorry that I forgot to say that at the Homecoming. Harriet Imrey wrote: >..... > > > > >BTW, I generally use the term "Scots-Irish", no matter what has become >common usage in U.S. genealogy. Just prior to landing in Glasgow in 1985, I >was informed by the nice elderly lady sitting next to me that she hoped I >would avoid the mistake that most American visitors make: I should remember >that "Scotch is what we drink, Scots is who we are". I certainly didn't >want to offend anybody while visiting that lovely country! > > > >

Marsha, Re your below, my Quaker Hawkins in PA went to Loudoun Co., VA (Fairfax MM) in the mid 1700s before coming to Bush River and Cane Creek MM. (from a book by my father - ".... when the family moved to SC. It is said that James and family lived in Loudoun Co., VA, long enough to find that it was a good place to starve, this was by the records about 12 years."). Phil Hawkins, Administrator 24 May 2008 Hawkins Worldwide DNA Project Family Site: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hawkinsdnaproject/tree_g-1.html *** A 'Veteran' -- one who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including their life.' *** ----- Original Message ----- From: "marsha moses" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Wagon Road -Carolina Road > Anne, I find that particularly interesting. I attended the Virginia > Genealogical Society's Spring event. The second speaker of the day > talked about the French and Indian War. And he made a blanket statement > that I have been meaning to explore. He said that when the Indian > atrocities began to happen on what was then the Virginia frontier, the > Quakers moved to Louden County, Virginia and the Germans moved to > Frederick, Maryland. So perhaps I should be looking at Loudoun County > and Fairfax MM for the missing links for my Bush River people. Do you > know who your Dodd Clan was intermarried with?

Harriet, Your information is terrific! Thanks for sharing. I am going to reply separately to make for more easy reading to several of your thoughts. I will add your first three paragraphs to my Great Wagon Road file. I would like to clarify the fourth paragraph by saying that the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road and Wilderness Road (that went through the Shenadoah Valley) actually divided earlier than Rock Hill, SC. The spot where the travelers needed to make the decision to go southwest on the Wilderness Road or south to the Carolinas and Georgia was actually Big Lick, Virginia now called Roanoke. It has been said that when the Bryant family moved south into the Yadkin area, that the family widened what they called the Carolina Road to let their group use the wagons that they had brought. After that some called that stretch of road the Bryant road ....you know I just went on-line quickly to see whether I was spelling this name correctly...and found that more often the author that I checked spelled it Bryan although she refers to it as Bryan(t) in Orange County. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MADKY/2002-04/1019942847 Marsha Moses Harriet Imrey wrote: > > > > >The Parke Rouse Jr. book, The Great Wagon Road (I like it), includes a map >of the "Great Philadelphia Wagon Road and Wilderness Road" which shows a >branching of routes at Rock Hill (York Co) SC, with an eastern branch going >through Camden SC to Augusta GA, and a western branch going through Newberry >SC, then to Augusta GA. The map includes no dates. Surveyor/mapmaker Henry >Mouzon produced a map of the Carolinas in 1774, and it was considered the >most reliable one of its time. The copy which Gen. George Washington >carried in his saddlebag is at Mt. Vernon; Gen. Cornwallis carried one too >(otherwise, nobody would have known where/how to find the next battle). >Mouzon failed to notice a route from York Co SC to the site of Newberry SC, >which leads one to wonder if there were a marked-road, or blazed-trail, at >that time. The road south from Charlotte NC cut west from York Co SC (noted >as "Path from the Cherokees") into TN, it intersected a trading-path to the >south at roughly the site of Union SC. That north/south path ran parallel >to the Broad River, crossed Second Creek and Cannon's Creek in the Newberry >Co region, didn't get anywhere close to Bush River or the later town of >Newberry. > > > >

Anne, I find that particularly interesting. I attended the Virginia Genealogical Society's Spring event. The second speaker of the day talked about the French and Indian War. And he made a blanket statement that I have been meaning to explore. He said that when the Indian atrocities began to happen on what was then the Virginia frontier, the Quakers moved to Louden County, Virginia and the Germans moved to Frederick, Maryland. So perhaps I should be looking at Loudoun County and Fairfax MM for the missing links for my Bush River people. Do you know who your Dodd Clan was intermarried with? I found a map that may show the road that you are talking about at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~soden/images/Maps/Thumbnails/ColonialRoads.jpg and perhaps even better: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bruckner/maps/colonial_roads_1750.jpg So it is possible that some of our ancestors who came from the north travelled this road instead of what we have been calling the Great Wagon road. What do you think? marsha moses Anne Crocker wrote: >One road south named the Carolina Road on Viriginia signposts and >road maps goes just east of the first mountain ridge that builds the >eastern wall of the Shenandoah Valley --going from Frederick Maryland >across to Loudoun Co. and down through Virginia to Old Orange Co., NC >and south, where it meets up with other old trails down into Old >Anson/Rowan/Mecklenburg. In Virginia and northern NC it is basically >US 15. Since the road in the north links up to old roads going to >Baltimore and Philadelphia, it is quite probable that Quakers coming >down to Cane Creek MM in old Orange/current Alamance came through >Loudoun. Many of the Loudoun Co., VA, Fairfax MM Quakers left for >Cane Creek and adjacent meetings down this Carolina Road. It is also >most likely that my Dodd clan from Loudoun came through this US 15/ >Carolina Road. There would have been fewer major mountain obstacles >(the pass from Roanoke down into Mount Airy, NC, and on down into >Guilford was indeed a main road but even today its steepness is >awesome) but several rivers to cross. > >You can still see the rut of this old wagon trail in several places >in Orange Co., NC, especially in Hillsborough, a colonial capital of NC. > >Off the top of the head, I'd say that the trail south from Granville/ >Orange on into old Bladen (lower half of NC and northern SC at one >time)/Anson/Rowan joins the Carolina branch of the Wagon Trail about >where I-85 veers south from Guilford, NC, passing by several Quaker >meetings and on to the Yadkin River's Shallow Ford, just west of >where I-85 now crosses that major river, as Sue Wyatt demonstrated. > >Sorry, I've packed up my records so I can move in the next month, or >I would scan a map of NC colonial era trails. Several of the >excellent NC deed abstract books include copies of trail maps. > >Here's the link to NC county formation maps. >http://www.usgwarchives.org/nc/ncmaps.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Ladies: You have supplied interesting information on the roads and their rough conditions. Pleased to be able to add that to my little book of facts. Another travel route I have read about and which is often overlooked is that of the coastal ship routes. The Quakers could have left from Philadelphia (the Colonies largest port) and traveled under better circumstances to Charleston, SC or perhaps Savannah. On one S.C. land document for my Welsh Davis family is a cryptic note "from Georgia." This family settled in Camden on Pine Tree Creek. Poldi On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:57 AM, Harriet Imrey <[email protected]> wrote: > More than one route has been called the "Great Wagon Road" and even the > "Carolina Road" at different places in different times. Depended on where > people started from, where they were aiming for, and in which year. > > The "Great Wagon Road" usually refers to the "Great Valley Road" through > the > Shenandoah Valley of VA. When Joshua Fry and Peter Jefferson (father of > Pres. Thomas) marked-it and mapped-it in 1751, they called it "The Great > Road from the Yadkin River [NC] thro Virginia to Philadelphia", but noted > that the going was pretty rough--for men on horseback--south of Great Lick > (AKA Roanoke VA). They marked-it with two notches and a cross, but > south-of-Roanoke had not been cleared for wagon-travel quite yet. > > The road had theoretically been cleared down to Salisbury NC by 1753. > Bishop August Spangenberg and his Moravian settlers were headed down the > road in 1752 to their new settlement in Bethabara [Winston-Salem] NC, went > as far as Staunton VA, said "there the bad road began. It was up hill and > down, and we had constantly to push the wagon, or hold it back by ropes > that > we fastened to the rear". His party left The Road (bad as it was) after > reaching the Yadkin River, headed east towards current Winston-Salem "into > the pathless forest". > > At Salisbury NC, the Roanoke VA connection ran into the older route called > the "Upper Road" (the one that was cleared, after a fashion, by 1748 and > went from Philadelphia via Alexandria and Fredericksburg VA through > Hillsborough NC, down to Charlotte NC and later into backcountry SC). John > Collins from Long Island (probably the Long Island in NY) tried that route > in 1748 in order to get to Fredericksburgh Township in SC--the place that > became Pine Tree/Camden SC, and the site of the later Quaker settlement, to > which he was next-door. His petition for land mentioned "the great Expence > and fatigue which he had been under for Twenty weeks by past in his Journey > in Transporting his Family, Waggon, Plot [plow?], and Tools propos'g to > make > Wheat and Flour." He'd left 8 companion-families behind on the Atkin > [Yadkin] and How [Haw] Rivers, and they were waiting for a report from him > before deciding whether to brave the further trip into SC. That was 20 > weeks on the "good" road that was supposedly wagon-negotiable by 1748. The > path from Roanoke VA to the Yadkin River in NC hadn't been cleared by then, > it took a while longer before there was a way to get from the Shenandoah > Valley down into SC with a wagon. > > The Parke Rouse Jr. book, The Great Wagon Road (I like it), includes a map > of the "Great Philadelphia Wagon Road and Wilderness Road" which shows a > branching of routes at Rock Hill (York Co) SC, with an eastern branch going > through Camden SC to Augusta GA, and a western branch going through > Newberry > SC, then to Augusta GA. The map includes no dates. Surveyor/mapmaker > Henry > Mouzon produced a map of the Carolinas in 1774, and it was considered the > most reliable one of its time. The copy which Gen. George Washington > carried in his saddlebag is at Mt. Vernon; Gen. Cornwallis carried one too > (otherwise, nobody would have known where/how to find the next battle). > Mouzon failed to notice a route from York Co SC to the site of Newberry SC, > which leads one to wonder if there were a marked-road, or blazed-trail, at > that time. The road south from Charlotte NC cut west from York Co SC > (noted > as "Path from the Cherokees") into TN, it intersected a trading-path to the > south at roughly the site of Union SC. That north/south path ran parallel > to the Broad River, crossed Second Creek and Cannon's Creek in the Newberry > Co region, didn't get anywhere close to Bush River or the later town of > Newberry. > > So how did the Quakers from PA and NC "get there"? The earliest Bush River > Quaker settlers came from the Fredericksburgh (Camden SC) MM in ~1762, when > there wasn't a community yet. They could take the road down from Camden to > Friday's Ferry (across from Columbia SC), then another westward road that > ran south of the Saluda River to just-across from the Bush River > settlement. > At some point, there must have been a more-direct route from Charlotte NC, > or maybe Rock Hill SC, that was recalled as a portion of the "Great Wagon > Road", or else the "Carolina Road", and went to Newberry SC. The 1774 > Mouzon map didn't show one. > > The Bush River MM was organized in 1770. The people who lived in Camden > could get to Newberry via local roads/trails or via the rivers. The new > settlers from PA/NC before the spring of 1773 had to go to Charlestown > first > anyway, in order to petition for their land grants. The "Upper Road" > (which > also got called the "Great Wagon Road", but not the "Great Valley Road") > was > a better way to take a wagon from the Shenandoah Valley into SC. Not > great, > just better. You could get from NC to Camden SC to Charlestown that way, > then take either a road or the rivers up to the Bush River settlement. > > To the best of my knowledge, I have no Bush River Quaker ancestors (just a > few Swiss immigrants who owned land in the region). The various colonial > SC > documents say that the Quaker settlers were more-literate and > more-successful than the majority of backcountry settlers. These were > bright folks, who wouldn't have chosen the more-arduous migration path over > the one less difficult for their families. The "Upper Road", from > Salisbury > NC to Charlotte NC to Camden SC to Charlestown SC was less-awful in the > early 1770's than the Charlotte NC to Union SC extension of the "Carolina > Road". The ruts in the Great Wagon Road near Newberry SC in the 1770's (or > whenever) may have been made by people less travel-savvy than the Bush > River > Quakers, who probably did-their-homework about the best way to get from > here > to there. > > BTW, I generally use the term "Scots-Irish", no matter what has become > common usage in U.S. genealogy. Just prior to landing in Glasgow in 1985, > I > was informed by the nice elderly lady sitting next to me that she hoped I > would avoid the mistake that most American visitors make: I should > remember > that "Scotch is what we drink, Scots is who we are". I certainly didn't > want to offend anybody while visiting that lovely country! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marsha moses" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Roper in NC > > Audrey E Pool wrote: Are you speaking of the Great Wagon Road through the > middle of VA? Weren't there two main migration "roads" (The Great > Wagon...& > The Wilderness Road) during a certain period of time from VA-PA and further > up in the states? > > The Great Wagon Road had many names. We all "took" to calling it the > Great > Wagon Road from Philadelphia to what is now Roanoke Virginia which was then > called Big Licks. At that point the settlers would have decided to travel > into southwestern Virginia (and on into Kentucky depending on the time > frame) on the Wilderness Road or to continue south on the Carolina Road > that > went south into the Carolinas and on to Augusta Georgia. It is said that > part of the Carolina road was also called the Bryant Road after the Bryant > family who are said to have widened the road from Big Licks to the area of > the Yadkin River where they settled. > > And yes I use the term Scotch-Irish. It has become fashionable to call > the > drink Scotch and the people Scots.....but the term Scotch-Irish has been > used so long that genealogists stick to that term to describe those who > descend from lowland Scots who moved for a few generations to Ireland and > then moved onto North America in 1700's. marsha > > I have a ggg-uncle who has a chapter dedicated to him in the Wilderness > Road > book, or one of them. His name was Aaron MYERS, a traveling minister. My > Grandfather Roscoe C. MYERS was also a minister, my only brother, Harry E. > MYERS, a minister...runs in the family. From studies of those families > who > traveled the Great Wagon Road, I followed some for a school project years > ago, most of them Scotch-Irish (Is this a term?). > Thanks again, Audrey > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "She is insane, of course. The family history has become a mania for her." Hercule Poirot http://www.FrontPorchRockerNews.blogspot.com http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Langford This project includes Lankford spelling also. "Truth and reason are eternal. They have prevailed. And they will eternally prevail; however, in times and places they may be overborne for a while by violence, military, civil, or ecclesiastical." --Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, 1810

More than one route has been called the "Great Wagon Road" and even the "Carolina Road" at different places in different times. Depended on where people started from, where they were aiming for, and in which year. The "Great Wagon Road" usually refers to the "Great Valley Road" through the Shenandoah Valley of VA. When Joshua Fry and Peter Jefferson (father of Pres. Thomas) marked-it and mapped-it in 1751, they called it "The Great Road from the Yadkin River [NC] thro Virginia to Philadelphia", but noted that the going was pretty rough--for men on horseback--south of Great Lick (AKA Roanoke VA). They marked-it with two notches and a cross, but south-of-Roanoke had not been cleared for wagon-travel quite yet. The road had theoretically been cleared down to Salisbury NC by 1753. Bishop August Spangenberg and his Moravian settlers were headed down the road in 1752 to their new settlement in Bethabara [Winston-Salem] NC, went as far as Staunton VA, said "there the bad road began. It was up hill and down, and we had constantly to push the wagon, or hold it back by ropes that we fastened to the rear". His party left The Road (bad as it was) after reaching the Yadkin River, headed east towards current Winston-Salem "into the pathless forest". At Salisbury NC, the Roanoke VA connection ran into the older route called the "Upper Road" (the one that was cleared, after a fashion, by 1748 and went from Philadelphia via Alexandria and Fredericksburg VA through Hillsborough NC, down to Charlotte NC and later into backcountry SC). John Collins from Long Island (probably the Long Island in NY) tried that route in 1748 in order to get to Fredericksburgh Township in SC--the place that became Pine Tree/Camden SC, and the site of the later Quaker settlement, to which he was next-door. His petition for land mentioned "the great Expence and fatigue which he had been under for Twenty weeks by past in his Journey in Transporting his Family, Waggon, Plot [plow?], and Tools propos'g to make Wheat and Flour." He'd left 8 companion-families behind on the Atkin [Yadkin] and How [Haw] Rivers, and they were waiting for a report from him before deciding whether to brave the further trip into SC. That was 20 weeks on the "good" road that was supposedly wagon-negotiable by 1748. The path from Roanoke VA to the Yadkin River in NC hadn't been cleared by then, it took a while longer before there was a way to get from the Shenandoah Valley down into SC with a wagon. The Parke Rouse Jr. book, The Great Wagon Road (I like it), includes a map of the "Great Philadelphia Wagon Road and Wilderness Road" which shows a branching of routes at Rock Hill (York Co) SC, with an eastern branch going through Camden SC to Augusta GA, and a western branch going through Newberry SC, then to Augusta GA. The map includes no dates. Surveyor/mapmaker Henry Mouzon produced a map of the Carolinas in 1774, and it was considered the most reliable one of its time. The copy which Gen. George Washington carried in his saddlebag is at Mt. Vernon; Gen. Cornwallis carried one too (otherwise, nobody would have known where/how to find the next battle). Mouzon failed to notice a route from York Co SC to the site of Newberry SC, which leads one to wonder if there were a marked-road, or blazed-trail, at that time. The road south from Charlotte NC cut west from York Co SC (noted as "Path from the Cherokees") into TN, it intersected a trading-path to the south at roughly the site of Union SC. That north/south path ran parallel to the Broad River, crossed Second Creek and Cannon's Creek in the Newberry Co region, didn't get anywhere close to Bush River or the later town of Newberry. So how did the Quakers from PA and NC "get there"? The earliest Bush River Quaker settlers came from the Fredericksburgh (Camden SC) MM in ~1762, when there wasn't a community yet. They could take the road down from Camden to Friday's Ferry (across from Columbia SC), then another westward road that ran south of the Saluda River to just-across from the Bush River settlement. At some point, there must have been a more-direct route from Charlotte NC, or maybe Rock Hill SC, that was recalled as a portion of the "Great Wagon Road", or else the "Carolina Road", and went to Newberry SC. The 1774 Mouzon map didn't show one. The Bush River MM was organized in 1770. The people who lived in Camden could get to Newberry via local roads/trails or via the rivers. The new settlers from PA/NC before the spring of 1773 had to go to Charlestown first anyway, in order to petition for their land grants. The "Upper Road" (which also got called the "Great Wagon Road", but not the "Great Valley Road") was a better way to take a wagon from the Shenandoah Valley into SC. Not great, just better. You could get from NC to Camden SC to Charlestown that way, then take either a road or the rivers up to the Bush River settlement. To the best of my knowledge, I have no Bush River Quaker ancestors (just a few Swiss immigrants who owned land in the region). The various colonial SC documents say that the Quaker settlers were more-literate and more-successful than the majority of backcountry settlers. These were bright folks, who wouldn't have chosen the more-arduous migration path over the one less difficult for their families. The "Upper Road", from Salisbury NC to Charlotte NC to Camden SC to Charlestown SC was less-awful in the early 1770's than the Charlotte NC to Union SC extension of the "Carolina Road". The ruts in the Great Wagon Road near Newberry SC in the 1770's (or whenever) may have been made by people less travel-savvy than the Bush River Quakers, who probably did-their-homework about the best way to get from here to there. BTW, I generally use the term "Scots-Irish", no matter what has become common usage in U.S. genealogy. Just prior to landing in Glasgow in 1985, I was informed by the nice elderly lady sitting next to me that she hoped I would avoid the mistake that most American visitors make: I should remember that "Scotch is what we drink, Scots is who we are". I certainly didn't want to offend anybody while visiting that lovely country! ----- Original Message ----- From: "marsha moses" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Roper in NC Audrey E Pool wrote: Are you speaking of the Great Wagon Road through the middle of VA? Weren't there two main migration "roads" (The Great Wagon...& The Wilderness Road) during a certain period of time from VA-PA and further up in the states? The Great Wagon Road had many names. We all "took" to calling it the Great Wagon Road from Philadelphia to what is now Roanoke Virginia which was then called Big Licks. At that point the settlers would have decided to travel into southwestern Virginia (and on into Kentucky depending on the time frame) on the Wilderness Road or to continue south on the Carolina Road that went south into the Carolinas and on to Augusta Georgia. It is said that part of the Carolina road was also called the Bryant Road after the Bryant family who are said to have widened the road from Big Licks to the area of the Yadkin River where they settled. And yes I use the term Scotch-Irish. It has become fashionable to call the drink Scotch and the people Scots.....but the term Scotch-Irish has been used so long that genealogists stick to that term to describe those who descend from lowland Scots who moved for a few generations to Ireland and then moved onto North America in 1700's. marsha I have a ggg-uncle who has a chapter dedicated to him in the Wilderness Road book, or one of them. His name was Aaron MYERS, a traveling minister. My Grandfather Roscoe C. MYERS was also a minister, my only brother, Harry E. MYERS, a minister...runs in the family. From studies of those families who traveled the Great Wagon Road, I followed some for a school project years ago, most of them Scotch-Irish (Is this a term?). Thanks again, Audrey

Hi Bill, I have some information on the Clary/Summers family line. Let me know if you are interested. Sandi Silver -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Harriet Imrey Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 5:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Stephens or Clary family Hi, Bill. Daniel Clary (b. ~1710 in Baltimore), his wife Eleanor Deveron (Prince Georges Co MD), and most of their 13 children left Frederick Co MD for Newberry Co SC in 1774. They were not Quakers, but lived near the Bush River community. The third Daniel down (b. ~1780 in Newberry Co SC) married a Frances/Fanny in Edgefield Co on 15 Jan 1809. Her maiden name has been reported as Abney. She said that her name was Fanny Wills when she witnesssed an Edgefield deed in 1808, and that it was Fanny Clary (formerly Wills) when she proved it in 1821. They had six children before he died on 4 Nov 1824. The estate sale was in Edgefield Co in 1838, the petition for partition of the estate was filed in Newberry Co. The latter said that widow Frances Clary had married John Stephens and "died soon after". Daniel Clary III owned land on both sides of the Saluda River, lived on the Edgefield side; John Stephens lived on the Newberry side. The Clary family scattered to a lot of different locations in 1800-20. The one who remained in SC was Matthew Wills Clary (b. 11 Sep 1811, son of Daniel III and Fanny), who lived in Edgefield Co and was a Civil War Colonel. His grandfather Daniel Clary was a highly-respected Colonel of the Dutch Fork Regiment of (Loyalist) Militia, whose banishment was overturned and whose estate confiscation order was reduced to an amercement. He petitioned on 24 Jan 1783 for the restoration of his state citizenship, and got it. Despite the banishment order, he'd never left SC. Which of the numerous Clarys are you seeking? I know where some of them went, don't know if any of them married a Stephens, other than Frances Wills, widow of Daniel Clary III. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Blair" <[email protected]> To: "Bush River SC List" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Stephens or Clary family Has anyone run across any mention of the Stephens or Clary family in regards to the Bush River Quakers? It would be in the Newberry area. Thanks! Bill Blair Deland, FL ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

One road south named the Carolina Road on Viriginia signposts and road maps goes just east of the first mountain ridge that builds the eastern wall of the Shenandoah Valley --going from Frederick Maryland across to Loudoun Co. and down through Virginia to Old Orange Co., NC and south, where it meets up with other old trails down into Old Anson/Rowan/Mecklenburg. In Virginia and northern NC it is basically US 15. Since the road in the north links up to old roads going to Baltimore and Philadelphia, it is quite probable that Quakers coming down to Cane Creek MM in old Orange/current Alamance came through Loudoun. Many of the Loudoun Co., VA, Fairfax MM Quakers left for Cane Creek and adjacent meetings down this Carolina Road. It is also most likely that my Dodd clan from Loudoun came through this US 15/ Carolina Road. There would have been fewer major mountain obstacles (the pass from Roanoke down into Mount Airy, NC, and on down into Guilford was indeed a main road but even today its steepness is awesome) but several rivers to cross. You can still see the rut of this old wagon trail in several places in Orange Co., NC, especially in Hillsborough, a colonial capital of NC. Off the top of the head, I'd say that the trail south from Granville/ Orange on into old Bladen (lower half of NC and northern SC at one time)/Anson/Rowan joins the Carolina branch of the Wagon Trail about where I-85 veers south from Guilford, NC, passing by several Quaker meetings and on to the Yadkin River's Shallow Ford, just west of where I-85 now crosses that major river, as Sue Wyatt demonstrated. Sorry, I've packed up my records so I can move in the next month, or I would scan a map of NC colonial era trails. Several of the excellent NC deed abstract books include copies of trail maps. Here's the link to NC county formation maps. http://www.usgwarchives.org/nc/ncmaps.html

According to some maps I have, the wagon road stays one road until it comes to Charlotte NC. It splits through SC and comes together again at Augusta, GA where it ends. The beginning of the Great Wagon Road is in Philadelphia, PA. **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Hi, Bill. Daniel Clary (b. ~1710 in Baltimore), his wife Eleanor Deveron (Prince Georges Co MD), and most of their 13 children left Frederick Co MD for Newberry Co SC in 1774. They were not Quakers, but lived near the Bush River community. The third Daniel down (b. ~1780 in Newberry Co SC) married a Frances/Fanny in Edgefield Co on 15 Jan 1809. Her maiden name has been reported as Abney. She said that her name was Fanny Wills when she witnesssed an Edgefield deed in 1808, and that it was Fanny Clary (formerly Wills) when she proved it in 1821. They had six children before he died on 4 Nov 1824. The estate sale was in Edgefield Co in 1838, the petition for partition of the estate was filed in Newberry Co. The latter said that widow Frances Clary had married John Stephens and "died soon after". Daniel Clary III owned land on both sides of the Saluda River, lived on the Edgefield side; John Stephens lived on the Newberry side. The Clary family scattered to a lot of different locations in 1800-20. The one who remained in SC was Matthew Wills Clary (b. 11 Sep 1811, son of Daniel III and Fanny), who lived in Edgefield Co and was a Civil War Colonel. His grandfather Daniel Clary was a highly-respected Colonel of the Dutch Fork Regiment of (Loyalist) Militia, whose banishment was overturned and whose estate confiscation order was reduced to an amercement. He petitioned on 24 Jan 1783 for the restoration of his state citizenship, and got it. Despite the banishment order, he'd never left SC. Which of the numerous Clarys are you seeking? I know where some of them went, don't know if any of them married a Stephens, other than Frances Wills, widow of Daniel Clary III. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Blair" <[email protected]> To: "Bush River SC List" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [SC-BUSHRIVERQUAKERS] Stephens or Clary family Has anyone run across any mention of the Stephens or Clary family in regards to the Bush River Quakers? It would be in the Newberry area. Thanks! Bill Blair Deland, FL

Hi, Everyone - I was able to contact Mr. Shealy, our Newberry historian, by email. Here is our email "conversation" concerning the road traces we saw near Molly's Rock Park in Newberry: * * * * * * * * * Hi, Mr. Shealy - Just a quick question regarding the road traces near Molly's Rock Park - are they part of the Great Wagon Road or the Buncombe Road? Thanks again for all your wonderful input at the Bush River Homecoming - you made it so special for all of us! * * * * * * * * * From: Ernest Shealy Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:42 PM To: Wyatt, Susan D. Subject: Re: The Great Wagon Road / The Buncombe Road Hi! I sent in an answer to the list, but I don't think the message "took." Molly's Rock Road follows the trace of the Old Buncombe Road, the road probably used for the Quakers' exodus. The Great Wagon Road trace is followed by Mt. Bethel-Garmany Road and Henderson's Ferry Road (among others). Hope this helps. Ernest * * * * * * * * * * >From Sue Wyatt: Thanks so much, Ernest - My notes from the weekend were a little scrambled, I think! Do the Buncombe Road and GWR look a lot alike? I guess I never got to see the GWR in the Newberry area... * * * * * * * * * * From: Ernest Shealy Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:36 PM To: Wyatt, Susan D. Subject: Re: The Great Wagon Road / The Buncombe Road Hi! Yes, they look a lot alike; however, the Old Buncombe Road is actually a little less ditch-like than the Great Wagon Road. Ernest * * * * * * * * * * Hope this helps everyone get a little clearer on what we saw and what is in Marsha's photos. NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by the sender for the sole use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. To do so could violate state and Federal privacy laws. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by telephone, so that the sender's address records can be corrected. Thank you for your cooperation.

Audrey E Pool wrote: >.... > > Are >you speaking of the Great Wagon Road through the middle of VA? Weren't >there two main migration "roads" (The Great Wagon...& The Wilderness Road) >during a certain period of time from VA-PA and further up in the states? > The Great Wagon Road had many names. We all "took" to calling it the Great Wagon Road from Philadelphia to what is now Roanoke Virginia which was then called Big Licks. At that point the settlers would have decided to travel into southwestern Virginia (and on into Kentucky depending on the time frame) on the Wilderness Road or to continue south on the Carolina Road that went south into the Carolinas and on to Augusta Georgia. It is said that part of the Carolina road was also called the Bryant Road after the Bryant family who are said to have widened the road from Big Licks to the area of the Yadkin River where they settled. And yes I use the term Scotch-Irish. It has become fashionable to call the drink Scotch and the people Scots.....but the term Scotch-Irish has been used so long that genealogists stick to that term to describe those who descend from lowland Scots who moved for a few generations to Ireland and then moved onto North America in 1700's. marsha > I >have a ggg-uncle who has a chapter dedicated to him in the Wilderness Road >book, or one of them. His name was Aaron MYERS, a traveling minister. My >Grandfather Roscoe C. MYERS was also a minister, my only brother, Harry E. >MYERS, a minister...runs in the family. > From studies of those families who traveled the Great Wagon Road, I >followed some for a school project years ago, most of them Scotch-Irish (Is >this a term?). >Thanks again, Audrey > > > > >>Audrey, I looked through your information and found nothing that I could >>contribute to help you in your quest. But I do have a comment on on >>settlers all along the Great Wagon Road. When one goes to the Frontier >>Culture Museum of Virginia near Staunton, Va, they show you >>representative homes from the "old world" of the three predominant kinds >>of settlers: >> >>Germans, Scotch-Irish, and younger sons of the landed gentry of >>England. These men would not inherit in the homeland ....so they became >>men of the church, military men, or they migrated to where they could >>obtain land. >> >>Here is the website for this wonderful musueum: >>http://www.frontiermuseum.org/ >> >>I can not help but think that this Thomas Roper might have fallen into >>the last group named. Marsha Moses >> >>Audrey E Pool wrote: >> >> >> >>>..... >>>ROPER, Thomas (in Virginia 1623), 'of Milden in the County of >>>Bedfordshire, >>>gent.' " I guess a "gent" or Gentleman was a high compliment during the >>>18th century, but you probably know this already. I thought it meant the >>>person had land, but guess it has a deeper meaning than that. Audrey >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >