I am going to jump in here. This may be answered further along, I haven't gotten through several days of backed up mail. Edith is the daughter of Margaret Tuttle and S.W. Asher. The Mary she is refering to is her mother's sister, Mary, both are d/o James and Elizabeth Yeager Tuttle. I have Eli remarried to Nicy Hampton, but I don't know where or when, a lot of my stuff is from my grandmother who knew most of these people. I have some children of Eli, but probably not all and info is incomplete. Cheryl Meecha ------------------------------

WILLIAM T. ("Bill") SASSER (no details of obituary) "Arkansas Democrat-Gazette" 8 May, 1997 Little Rock, Arkansas (does anyone have any info on this relative who died in Arkansas?) ------------------------------

Jim, I can't help much in solving the Elizabeth Sasser puzzle, but here's what I do know. The first wife of my dad's uncle Clabe Jones (b 12/25/1872), s/o Thomas Jefferson Jones & gr s/o Malinda Sasser Jones (w/o Milton B. Jones) was Susan D. Smith (b 4/23/1874), d/o Thomas Smith & Elizabeth Sasser. They married 1/8/1892 in Laurel Co, KY, at the home of Thomas Smith. According to Clabe's daughter Martha from his 2nd marriage who is still living in Manchester, Susan's grandfather was "Uncle Bart" Sasser, Malinda's brother. My data show that her mother was their daughter Elizabeth (b. 1843). Also my data show that another of Bardin & Pherbe's daughters was Mary Jane. Vietta ------------------------------

To the group: With all the speculative discussion we've been having about Sasser origins, I wanted to share some gleanings of a North Carolina history book that I looked at in the library. The book is pretty old, and if I find anything more recent or that changes the information, I will be glad to pass it on. Basically, there were many different nationalities in NC by 1770, and all of the groups that we have discussed are mentioned below. "The Story of North Carolina," by Alex Mathews Arnett, Ph.D. University of North Carolina Press, 1933. 1. In 1770, the general population of North Carolina (excluding native Americans) was 150,000. Of these, about 1/3 were English, 1/3 were Scottish, 1/10 were German, 1/5 were slaves, and the rest were French, Swiss, and Irish. p. 165. 2. "It was during that long and prosperous administration of Governor Johnston (1734-1752), while the Scotch were beginning their settlements in North Carolina, that the tide of Germans also settled in. And they kept coming through the rest of the colonial period. They also settled in the same general region as the Scotch-Irish -- often in adjoining communities." The general migration pattern for Germans was from Pennsylvania through MD, western VA, and into NC. p. 161. 3. Governor Gabriel Johnston himself was Scottish. p. 141. 4. "As early as 1690 a group of French Protestants, who had been driven from their native land because of their religion, had come to North Carolina and settled on the Pamlico River. In 1704 they founded Bath, the first town built in the colony. Others of the French Protestants had moved on down to the Neuse River. There they were joined in 1710 by a number of German and Swiss refugees, fleeing like the French from religious persecution." They built the second town, New Bern, in honor of Bern, Switzerland." pp. 118-119. According to a map showing the location of these various groups (p. 146), the area covered by Johnston County was mostly English, and the other groups were west and south-west of the Johnston area. Doug Sherman dougsherma@aol.com ------------------------------

To the group: I went to the library this morning and found a new book, "Johnston County: 1746-1996," by Thomas J. Lassiter and Wingate Lassiter. The book doesn't circulate, so I jotted down a few notes that might be of interest. 1. There was only one mention of a Sasser (p. 61). The Smithfield Academy opened in 1813, and the commissioners were Daniel Boon, David Turner, *William Sasser*, W. W. Hopkins, Robert H. Helme, Henry Guy, Ellick Sanders, W. W. Bryan, and Samuel Mitchnor. [I would speculate that this is William Sasser, son of Josiah. That is purely a personal opinion.] 2. From 1705-1746, the area covered by Johnston County was within the jurisdiction of Craven County, where New Bern was the county seat. The first courthouse was at Walnut Creek [about 8 miles southeast of Goldsboro]. It moved to Hinton's Quarter in 1759 [just east of where Clayton now is], and then in 1771 to the area where Smithfield arose [founded 1777]. pp. 7-9,12-13,23. 3. "The earliest settlers of Johnston County were mainly English families." After 1745, heirs of Scot-Highlanders moved in [p. 10]. 4. Migration into the area came from two main routes: 1) upstream from the tidal regions adjacent to New Bern, and 2) down from VA through northeast NC (Albermale Country). [p. 10]. 5. Johnston County was by law in St. Patrick's Parish of the Church of England in 1746. In 1758, it became St. Stephen's Parish. The Parish ceased to exist at the end of the American Revolution. Baptists began organizing a church in 1756. In general, there was not much organized religion in the area before 1800. The area became predominantly Baptist, with some Methodist and a little Presbyterian influence later on [pp. 41-43] Doug Sherman dougsherma@aol.com ------------------------------

Well now.... our family origins are as clear as mud... No I am not complaining. There has been some very fascinating discussion lately, A lot of you have put in a GREAT deal of work and are continuing to do so. I for one want to tell you that you are appreciated. I am home with small children and am unable to put in a lot of research hours unless it is on the web after bedtimes. Several years ago BC (before children) I did a good deal of research on my Humfleet/Umphlete side with most of it now on computer but dead-ended on the Sasser connection. Again thank you and keep up the good work! Debbie Humfleet Mauelshagen ------------------------------

RE Woodham, Thanks for posting the obituary of Hugh Calvin Sasser. He was my first cousin and I hadn't seen or heard much about him for 30 yrs. His father, Rev. Robert Edward Sasser, my uncle, was a wonderful man, whom I greatly admired. Here is our branch of the tree. I don't have all the information that I would like, but what I have is accurate. 1.Henry Sasser - Nancy Kirby 2.William Henry Crawford Sasser (3/29/1824) m. Rhoda Gilbert (b.1836) 3.James Buchannan Sasser(2/221857-7/18/1944) m Rebecca Taylor(d 12/30/1884) 4. Benny C. Sasser (12/24/1884-2/20/1885) m. Cynthia Williams (d. 12/30/1888) 4. Taylor F.Sasser (9/9/1887-1/23/1948) m. Rose Lee Brock (This is for whom Sasser, KY is named - He owned a general store and was the post-master for this, Blackwater, area of Laurel, Co. 5. Robert Edward Sasser (7/5/1911 - 10/8/1979) m. Maude Estep 6. Robert E. Sasser Jr. 2/14/1933 m. Dasie Evad Edwards on 5/21/1952 7. Rickie Edward Sasser (1/25/1954) 7. Mary Elizabeth Sasser (3/28/1963) 6. Kizzie Ann Sasser 9/17/1936) m. Dr. Grady Leon Cantrell on 9/17/1953 divorced on 9/18/1985 7. Randell Grady Cantrell (3/3/1965) m. Sandy Thompson (9/23/1966) Evansville, Ind. m. Ross Baker Payton (9/23/1943) on 1/1/1986 6. Elizabeth Sasser (9/8/1938) m. William Owen Elmore (1/26/1937) 7. William Gilbert Elmore (2/2/1958) m. Cythia Louise Jones (6/26/1958) 8. John William Elmore (6/10/1988) 8. Robert Owen Elmore (8/29/1988) 7. Kizzie Ann Elmore (2/10/1961) m. Jay Samuel Theiss - divorced - no children m. William Byrd Clark (8/20/54) 8. Chelsea Ann Elmore-Clark (9/17/1984) 7. Jennifer Jeanneane Elmore (b 3/22/1964) m. Frank E. Hudnell (12/11/59) 8. Christina Elizabeth (3/11/1989) 7. Jonathan Owen Elmore (4/22/1974) 6. John E. Sasser (2/10/1939) m. Adelheid (Heidi) Kleine (8/29/1939 in Frankfurt, Ger.) 7. Rosemary Sasser (3/11/1962 in Frankfurt Ger.) m. Dean Millsaps on 8/4/1984 7. Christina Sasser (12/10/1967 in Cincinnati, OH) m. Ricky Shirky on 7/27/1986 6. Hugh Calvin Sasser (1/15/1942 - 5/31/1997) m. Judith Sichter (12/11/1940) in Wisconsin - divorced 8. Catherine Helen Sasser (8/8/1963 in Louisville, Ky.) 8. Hugh Edward Sasser (5/2/1966 in Jeffersonville,Ind.) m. Betty Jean Cochran (1/28/1937) on 12/25/1989 in Phenix City, AL 6. Rosemary Sasser (4/23/1946) later changed her name to Romey m. Luke Allen Meadors on 12/23/68 - divorced - no children m. Quinton Richard Hehn on 4/14/73 in Aschaffenburg, Ger. - divorced - no children m. Joe Mixon on 6/2/1985 in Georgia - divorced - no children m. Phillip Noel Peavler (6/14/41) in Lexington, KY 5. James William Sasser (3/12/1913 - 9/20-1964) m. Beulah Curry 6. Jacqueline Sasser (10/2/1933) in Sasser, KY m. Gary Wilson Lewis 7. Jimmie Joe Lewis m. Dorothy Johnson 6. William Harold Sasser (8/15/1939) London, KY m. Judy Steinle 7. James Peter Sasser (5/13/1965) 7. Mary Catherine Sasser (2/17/1967) m. William Enright 8. Michael Enright (9/9/1987 6. Betty Sasser (8/15/1939) London, KY m. Vernon R. Scott - Children ? 5. George Sasser (12/18/1915) m. Thelma May Dayberry (8/13/1924) in San Diego, CA 6. Mary Lou (2/28/47) in Portsmouth, OH m. John P. Montenery 7. Meredith Joy Montenery (12/16/70) in Columbus, OH 7. John Ryan Montenery (6/24/72) in Columbus, OH 7. Laura Elizabeth Montenery (3/8/80)in Mt. Vernon, OH 6. George Philip Sasser(b. 12/2/48) in London, KY (this is Me) m. Cassandra L Rowland (6/24/1949) in Athens, OH 7. Anne Christin (1/6/70) in Columbus, OH m Daniel Baker 7. Jamison Taylor Sasser (4/21/1972) in Columbus, OH m Heather McGowan (1/5/73) m. on 10/15/1995 in Cary, NC 8. Grace Elizabeth Sasser (12/11/95) 7. Travis Philip Sasser (4/22/74) in Mt. Vernon, OH 7. Nathan Isaac Sasser (6/15/79) in Mt. Vernon, OH 7. Philip Michael Sasser (6/7/82) in Mansfield, OH 5. Lillian Sasser (10/2/1918 - 4/15/1983) m. James Byerly 6. Franklin Taylor Sasser (4/24/1944) in Sasser, KY. m. Lavonne Morgan - divorced - no children m Pamela Ensminger m. Nancy Perry (8/30/1874-5/9/1939) married on 11/10/1892 4. Ruth 6/30/1893 - 6/30/1893 4. Grace 6/30/1893 - 7/09/1893 4. Janie Ethel 8/2/1894 4. Mabel May 9/9/1896 4. Annie Belle 4/26/1899 4. Luther S. 1/1/1903 4. William H. 3/6/1905 4. Austin A. 5/9/1908 4. Hazel Marie 3/6/1912 - 7/31/1912 ------------------------------

Dear Cousins, I just posted an obituary that appeared in our newspaper this week of one of our cousins. THIS is the type thing we should see MORE of. I enjoy debating how to spell names because it's fun for me but let's not lose sight of our main goal and purposes: to gather and preserve our family's heritage and to get to know our living relatives. PLEASE, when you see an obituary of a descendant of our family, either post it on the discussion group or send it directly to me. If you have old obituaries or know relatives who do, PLEASE make xerox copies of these and send to me to preserve in our Family Library. If your folks are like my Mama, they probably clip out obits of kinfolks and stick them in the family Bible. Mama brock the backs of two very large Bibles doing this with a very large number of obituaries. You will also probably find them in photo albums. Xerox copies of these are far more important that a typed version but if you can't get xerox copies made, then please email me a full transcript. When you see obits of descendants in the newspapers, please clip the obit, along with the name and date of the newspaper from the top of the page and send these to: Robert Earl Woodham 1130 Celia Dr. Columbus, Ga. 31907 You can email me at: woodham@leo.infi.net Thanks for helping me preserve our heritage. ------------------------------

HUGH CALVIN SASSER > COLUMBUS, Ga.--Hugh Calvin Sasser, 55 > of 1712 27th Court, Phenix City, died > May 31, 1997 in Columbus. > A memorial service will be held at a > later date, according to Vance Memorial > Chapel, Phenix City. > Mr. Sasser was born January 15, 1942 > in Lorden, KY., son of Maude Estep > Sasser and the late Robert Edward > Sasser. He was employed as a long distance > truck driver with Burnham Truck Service. > He is survived by his wife, Betty Jean > Cochran Sasser of Phenix City; one daughter, > Catherine Sasser of Columbus; one son, > Edward Sasser of Columbus; three sisters, > Romey Peavler, Elizabeth Elmore and Kizzie > Patyton; one brother, John E. Sasser. > > "Columbus Ledger-Enquirer" > 3 June, 1997 > Columbus, Georgia ------------------------------

Dear Cousins, I just posted an obituary that appeared in our newspaper this week of one of our cousins. THIS is the type thing we should see MORE of. I enjoy debating how to spell names because it's fun for me but let's not lose sight of our main goal and purposes: to gather and preserve our family's heritage and to get to know our living relatives. PLEASE, when you see an obituary of a descendant of our family, either post it on the discussion group or send it directly to me. If you have old obituaries or know relatives who do, PLEASE make xerox copies of these and send to me to preserve in our Family Library. If your folks are like my Mama, they probably clip out obits of kinfolks and stick them in the family Bible. Mama brock the backs of two very large Bibles doing this with a very large number of obituaries. You will also probably find them in photo albums. Xerox copies of these are far more important that a typed version but if you can't get xerox copies made, then please email me a full transcript. When you see obits of descendants in the newspapers, please clip the obit, along with the name and date of the newspaper from the top of the page and send these to: Robert Earl Woodham 1130 Celia Dr. Columbus, Ga. 31907 You can email me at: woodham@leo.infi.net Thanks for helping me preserve our heritage. ------------------------------

I received the subject document from Cheryl Meecha and have a question about the following entries: The following children are listed under the Arthur Sasser/Levina Weaver group: Elizabeth Sasser b:1843 m: Thomas Smith in 1866 Mary Ann Sasser b:1855 m: William F. Jones in 1870 The following children are listed under the Barton Sasser/Phoebe Jones group: Elizabeth Sasser b: 1847 m: Thomas Smith in 1866 Mary Sasser b:1855 m: William F. Jones in 1870 Now the questions: Are the two Elizabeth Sasser's the same person? If so what is the correct birth date and who are the correct parents? Are Mary Ann Sasser and Mary Sasser the same person? If so who are her parents? Does anyone know the parents of Thomas Smith or William F. Jones? Would appreciate any help to straighten out the confusion. Thanks, Jim Smith ------------------------------

Good spotting of that error Jim. There are two Elizabeth's. For sure, the second Elizabeth belongs to Bardin/Barton/Barden & Phoebe Jones died WFT Est 1844-1937. But I do not have source information to back up the marriage to Thomas Smith for either Elizabeth. I will check at home and see if I come up with anything. As for trhe Mary/Mary Ann m. William F.Jones, I have the same information as you have. Dixie@locktrack.com Evans & Ricker, Inc. 7405 SW Tech Center Drive , Suite 144 Portland, OR 97223 Phone: 503-639-9296 Fax: 503-684-1411 >-----Original Message----- >From: jsmith4@ix.netcom.com [SMTP:jsmith4@ix.netcom.com] >Sent: Friday, June 06, 1997 5:43 PM >To: SASSER-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Sasser Family Tree printed in "Branches of Laurel" > >I received the subject document from Cheryl Meecha and have a question about >the following entries: > >The following children are listed under the Arthur Sasser/Levina Weaver >group: >Elizabeth Sasser b:1843 m: Thomas Smith in 1866 >Mary Ann Sasser b:1855 m: William F. Jones in 1870 > >The following children are listed under the Barton Sasser/Phoebe Jones >group: >Elizabeth Sasser b: 1847 m: Thomas Smith in 1866 >Mary Sasser b:1855 m: William F. Jones in 1870 > >Now the questions: > >Are the two Elizabeth Sasser's the same person? If so what is the correct >birth date and who are the correct parents? > >Are Mary Ann Sasser and Mary Sasser the same person? If so who are her >parents? > >Does anyone know the parents of Thomas Smith or William F. Jones? > >Would appreciate any help to straighten out the confusion. > >Thanks, > >Jim Smith > ------------------------------

I show that: James Thomas Hale & Mahala Sasser are the parents of Thomas Hale and that Thomas Hale and Mary Hammonds are the parents of Madison Hale ---------- From: VKeith3711@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 1997 8:01 AM To: SASSER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Hale/Sasser According to my database, Cuie Tuttle (b. ca 1871) d/o Joseph Tuttle (b. ca 1832) & Patience Sasser (b. ca 1834) married (ca 1894) Thomas Hale (b. ca 1865). Can someone tell me if Thomas was s/o Madison Hale & Louisa Taylor (m 1864)? Thanks. Vietta. ------------------------------

Dixie, After posting my corrections to your post the other day, I realized it might have come across as being heavy-handed. I wanted to let you know I wasn't attacking you in any way. There's a lot of good stuff in article, and I only wanted to correct the misunderstandings that people have about John Sasser, Sr., William Sasser, and Henry Sasser. I made those very same mistakes when I first started researching the Sassers in Johnston, Wayne and Dobbs Counties. I spent a good year in the archives in Raleigh collecting data before I could begin to make sense of it all. I recently put up a post listing 5 William Sassers in NC between 1733 and 1820 so folks could see how easy it would be to confuse them. I have a question about the following quote in the article: > Son Eli b. 1849 married my mother's Aunt Mary Tuttle; they had 11 children; Mary > Tuttle Sasser died in the late 1880's and Eli Sasser re-married and > moved to Oklahoma. Adin died in 1869, age 53. Do you know if Edith Asher Gray was the one who referred to Mary Tuttle as "my mother's aunt?" I know this compilation is 14 years old, but I was wondering if you had any further information on Edith. I am a descendant through Eli's daughter, Mahala, and I am trying to learn more about Eli's other children and when Eli died. I'd also like to know to whom he was remarried. Can you help me here? Thanks, Doug ------------------------------

I forgot about the "lock or sluice operator" bit. Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk do not have any navigable rivers. In the 1600's, by which time our family name had become established, there were no rivers in the area with locks and sluices; nor were there any canals with such. Canal building did not get a major start in England until the 1700's, with the coming of industrialization. So there were no locks and sluices for anyone to operate in southeast England and thus they could not have gotten their name from such an occupation which did not exist in the area at that time. As for the "Dweller on or near a river bank or at a lock in a lake" meaning: there are no significant lakes in this region (the subsoil is chalk and cannot hold large amounts of water). The author of this book didn't do his homework. The root words of SASSER in English cannot produce such a meaning as "dweller by a river". Nor should we confuse our Saxon SASSER with the French "saucer" (what we pour our coffee or tea in to cool it). Your cuz, Robert Earl ------------------------------

May I please offer an alternative origin and meaning to our Sasser family name to the "maker of sauces" origin. This IS the origin of a family name: Saucier and variant spellings. However, this is predominantly a French name and not English. The has been and still is a major difference in French and English foods: the French became famous for their gourmet cooking, while the working people of England are "meat and potatoes" folk. In the rural counties where you find our family name in England, there simply was no demand for an occupation such as a "sauce maker" because there weren't enough folks who could afford such luxuries. This was primarily reserved for the aristocracy in the larger cities and London. It certainly was not considered a "necessity" by the vast majority of English--their culinary fare was much more affordable. What they ate, they grew themselves. There are Saucier and Saucer families who settled in several Southern states. However, most (but not all) of these have a French origin. Most of those in Louisiana and Mississippi for instance, do have a French origin, having settled in Louisiana while it was part of the French Empire. One of the biggest problems in tracking down the origins and meanings of family names of folks who were not members of the aristocracy is the fact that the authors who wrote most of the British books on the subject simply didn't bother to take the time to do any real research on the "commoners" (there just wasn't any money in it!). I have found in some cases, that some of these so-called "authorities" apparently guessed at or even made up meanings and origins for some of the family names that I have researched. If any of our ancestors had become wealthy and been knighted, they one of these British "authorities" on surnames would have traced our origins a little better. A case in point is the family name Turnage: one of these authorities stated it meant a "turner of lathes" and another highly respected publication "Origins of English Surnames" stated it came from the parish of Turnditch in Derbyshire. I did a great deal of research and could not find a single person in history with a name even closely resembling this name in Derby county. On the contrary, I lucked up and found the family in villages all over the county of Essex, living in several communities named Woodham. They were there from the very beginning of family names in the region, starting in the late 1400's. I began to find such discrepancies on other family names. As for "a turner of lathes", this too, turned out to be grossly wrong. I had always broken the name down into the obvious root words "turn" and "age". After checking the "Oxford English Dictionary" (a large set of huge volumes and the most authoritative source on the meanings of English words), it became apparent that no word could be formed from two such root words. But then I discovered that the suffix "age" is a corruption of both "wich" (village) and "ness", a high place or peninsula. It turned out that "Turnish"/Turnage was a high holy place where the ancient god Thunor/Thor, the old Saxon god, was worshipped. Woodham turned out to be a place were Woden/Oden was worshipped. As a result, I decided to do some research on my own for the families that I am descended from. In each case, I was able to trace their origins to place names with a connection to the "Old Religion" of the ancient Saxons (and a few to the much smaller tribe of Angles, from whom the nation eventually took its name) who invaded and conquered Briton in the mid-400's AD. In almost EVERY occasion that you find a similar name to Sasser in any publication on family names, it will almost invariably say it is French and means a "cook" or maker of sauces. It is ironic that we can also find our family name SASSER in the very same county and adjoining counties, as above two family names. It is also extremely coincidental that we find these same three relatively rare family names in old Dobbs County, NC in the mid-1700's. Samuel L. Brown's book "Surnames Are the Fossils of Speech" gave two possible origins, one the standard "cook" (French) but really went off on a tangent with another "French" meaning of a dweller at the willow trees. The common folk of Essex and "The Southeast" of England are Saxons; those of adjoining Suffolk and Norfolk are Angles. These are the two large tribes of Germanic folk who became the modern English. It is my humble opinion that our family name SASSER (by whatever spelling we find it in old records on southeastern England) has a Germanic (Saxon/Angle) origin--not the French "cook" origin. These were yeomen (farmers who owned their own land), husbandmen (raised cattled & other domestic animals) or were laborers on large manors (farms). "Sasse" is pure Germanic and refers to the folk of Saxony in what is now Germany. They were once a powerful tribe in northwestern Germany on the coastal area. For some reason, many of these folk left there and invaded Briton and most of the remaining Sasse (Saxons) moved eastward. A dictionary meaning of "sassenach" is: "a typical Englishman; something considered typical of England." It is from Old English "Seaxan" (Saxon) of Germanic origin. If you break the name down into its root words, you have: "s" (the), sea, see, zee, zea; as; ar, er, or, ur (in all the Indo-Aryan or Indo-European languages, the vowels are completely interchangeable so don't worry about differences in spellings). In Old English, "the" was "se", "seo" or another word which used letters that are no longer used and can't be typed. The first of these could have two major possibilities: simply "the" or a reference to the sea. Since at the time of their invasion of Briton, they were considered a coastal or sea folk, this would certainly have strong weight for their tribal name (some historians and geologists believe they left this region due to the rising North Sea that flooded huge areas of old coast lines). Yet, the Saxon folk were not always a coastal folk. The second portion, or root word, is a common one throughout the Indo-Aryan speaking world from Briton and Scandanavia, Spain, to Greece, Russia, Iran and India. The root word "as, es, is, os, us" is a basic root word meaning god (goddess) or lord. The French word for god "deus" simply broken down into root words is "de (the) god". The name of the Greek's primary god, Zeus is exactly the same. Cultures throughout the Indo-Aryan area and the Near East and Middle East have had gods with these root words as either prefixes or suffixes (or in the middle) of compound words. Ishtar, a famous goddess became so well known to the Greeks that one of her symbols, a star, became known as just that "star". The Roman Jovis (Jove) and even the Hebrew Jhvh (Jehovah=Yaweh) can also be traced to this same root-word origin. The last portion of the "Sasser" name would be: ar, er, ir, or, ur; and the reverse of the vowels as: ra, re, ri, ro, ru. This is also a common root word throughout the Indo-Aryan region and translates variably as "shining", "bright", "golden", "ray" (sun's ray). In English, we use this root word for the light coming from the Sun--ray and the ancients worshipped the sun as a god in every land (or at least the symbol of a god). Without a lot of additional research, I would surmise that the makeup of the word means: "the shining god". In the case of our ancestors, this would not necessarily refer to the sun itself. For them, the sun was merely a symbol of their gods. The Germanic folk (including the present Germans, English, Danes, Swedes, Dutch, Belgians, Franks (French), Norwegians, etc.) had three primary gods: Woden (Scandanavian: Odin); Thunor (Sc.: Thor); and Frey. We still speak their names today: "Woden's daeg"=Wednesday; "Thunor's daeg"=Thursday; and Frey's daeg"=Friday. Although I have been extremely limited in the amount of books available on Old English, the Saxon language and English place-names, what little I have been able to find show a surprisingly huge number of sites throughout England with origins in the "Old Religion" or "Asatru" of the Saxons and Angles and in the later arrivals of the Danes (Vikings) in the region called the "Danelaw". With the coming of Christianity, many holy sites were given what English historians call "hidden" names to disguise their true meaning. It is interesting to note that in the region where our family name appears most frequently (Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk), that the letter r is rarely pronounced. "The letter "R" is not pronounced by the people of the English South and East; The West Country does pronounce the "R", according to "The Story of English" (1986). This would mean the R in SASSER would not be pronounced by the folk in that region as strongly as we Americans say it. This turns out to be true of the family name Turnage. I have often heard relatives pronounce this as "Tunnage" and found this spelling often in England up to the end of the 1700's. If I felt better tonight, I could probably come up with more ideas on this but I had a tooth pulled and I am in great PAIN. Got to go to work...(does anybody want to hear more later?) Your cuz, Robert Earl Woodham ------------------------------

Glenn, I'm confused. I'm one of those people who has been calling our ancestor John Henry, and I thought I was doing so based on good (although, 2nd hand) documentation. Now I'm not sure, though. As for your point about not using the whole name because Henry himself didn't, I'm not sure I agree with you. My both of my G Gr fathers... Thomas Jefferson Jones and George Washington Hounchell always called themselves by their middle names (or more correctly, by their middle nicknames Jeff & Wash). It is pretty much an accepted tradition among genealogists in the Jones family that any time you see a document (census, oath, deed, etc) where TJ Jones was asked to state his name, you will find that he called himself Jefferson. However, that says nothing about his whole name. Just for the sake of a slow learner, would you be willing to give a small tutorial on the reason why you think Henry's name was NOT John? Thanks, Vietta ------------------------------

Vietta and all: I hope I did not appear to be rudely assertive on the matter of the name. When I first saw the name listed as "John Henry" three months ago, I was awed about such new information (as I was at first about the alleged German origins). After all, I have done no research other than listen to older people, and that was forty years ago. More recently, I have seen statements by other members of the list who have done a different kind of research--Doug, I believe, although I am hesitant about quoting anyone without checking. One statement was that middle names were not customary in the 18th century. The other was that the first time the name appears as "John Henry" was in his death certificate. Now, as for the latter point, mistakes get made. I have your own experience, which you have already shared with me, about how written records are often wrong. I have seen my own name appear wrong many times. It is even spelled incorrectly on my birth certificate (one "n" instead of two). I just think that for us to call him by a name that some county official perhaps mistakenly used after he was dead is a very poor reason for calling him by a name that he apparently never used and which all of us who have preserved a tradition of him for so long never used--even if it was his full name, which as I said before, I very much doubt. Sorry to write such a hasty reply.I'll be glad to continue the discussion. Glenn ***************************************** Glenn E. Perry Department of Political Science Indiana State University Terre Haute, IN 47809 USA E-Mail: psperrg@scifac.indstate.edu (812)237-2505 (office) (812)234-5661 (home) **************************************** ------------------------------

> Bardsley also includes the name "Sass, Sasse" and gives >examples of "Sas" as well. The word was used for "a lock in a river' >or 'a sluice or lock...." Could it be that a person who operated a >sluice gate (i.e., a sasse) came to be known as a "sasser?" I don't >see any mention of that possibility, and I am too much of a >dilettante in this field to want to propose such a hypothesis. > After reading the letter from Glenn I recall a day spent some 25 years age at the Los Angeles County library going through a book about names. Smith= A person that worked with steel, (A Blacksmith). Smithson= The son of a blacksmith. Shepard= One who tends sheep. (A Shepherd) Then it said: Sasser= Dweller on or near a river bank or at a lock in a lake. (A Lock or Sluice operator) Coming home with this new information some twenty five years ago I just couldn't wait to tell my wife. My wife is a R.N. trained at Whipps Cross Hospital, London, England now retired. She told me I should not be spreading that news far and wide as it was the sluice device that they used to clean the bedpans at the hospital in training. Kleinsasser, DeSaussure, hmm!... let's explore these names more closely. Cordially, Earl Sasser ------------------------------

To: the Sasser list The word "sasser" is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd edition (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989), p. 493 as "obs[elete]. form of SAUCER." In light of Vietta's message a couple of days ago, that not only supports the old idea that our Southern Appalachian dialect is an old form of English. It also points to a possible English origin of the name, which I had always more or less taken for granted until February of this year, when I got in contact with this e-mail group. C. Bardsley, A Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames (1967), includes the following entry: "Saucer. ---Occup. 'the saucer,' i.e. a maker of sauces, a most important avocation in the 13th, 14th, and 15th centuries, when some seasoning, like salt-pickle, for a relish w as deemed a vital necessity. Hence, saucer, a deep-rimmed plate, or shallow vessel, to hold sauce in. v. Saucemaker. .... "The early registers teem with entries. "William le Sauser, co. Devon, Hen. III-Edw. I. K. [Note: this and other examples cited are French in form, but this would be explained by the Norman occupation of England.].... "Curiously enough, I cannot find any present representatiives of the name. The latest are: "1662. Bapt.--Alexander, son of Laurance Sawcer: .... "1670. Buried--Riobert, son of Laurance Sawcer: .... "1735. Married--Thomas Edwards and Keturah Sawcer: ...." Is it possible that the name "Sawcer"/"Saucer" has simply been transformed into "Sasser?" I find it curious that such a widespread name--at least in America--is not listed in any of the books on surnames that I checked. I also find it curious that Sassers do not seem to appear in any other country. Is this an indication that the name indeed was of foreign (i.e., non-English) origin and got Anglicized in America? Bardsley also includes the name "Sass, Sasse" and gives examples of "Sas" as well. The word was used for "a lock in a river' or 'a sluice or lock...." Could it be that a person who operated a sluice gate (i.e., a sasse) came to be known as a "sasser?" I don't see any mention of that possibility, and I am too much of a dilettante in this field to want to propose such a hypothesis. S. Brown, Surnames Are the Fossils of Speech (1965) includes the following entry: "SAUCIER (Fr) A 'cook' who prepared the sauces, gravies, etc in a (manor) house kitchen". Also: "SAUSSER (Fr) (Dwl. at) 'the willow trees'." The only name I see in any reference book that looks similar is "Sassari"--a town in Sardinia. The connection seems unlikely, though perhaps less so than Armenia or Albania. I was looking for a reference on German surnames but have not found one so far. I do see mention of the fact that Palatanite Germans settled in England and then later mostly moved to Ireland or America. The document sent by Dixie Ricker is most interesting and informative. I want to thank her for providing it. Both her material and the messages of Robert Woodham--based on his impressive research--have rightly shaken us up and made this list more exciting than ever. But the story of French Huguenot origin--a good hypothesis, and one that somebody had already recently proposed-- lacks viable documentation. It relates to a period that is too remote in time--at least I fear--for oral tradition to be of much value. Also, oral traditions need to have dependable chains of transmission. Who told whom, and who told him/her, etc.? My high school history teacher was talking about the Huguenot settlement in the Carolinas and said that some had come on to Southeast Kentucky. He pointed at me, saying that right there you have a typically French-looking fellow. I don't know what was so "French-looking" about me, but I--or at least a third person who heard the story from me--might have later used this as the basis of a tradition that my North Carolina ancesters were Huguenots. The same thing can be said about the story of Palatinate German origin. Document B (as I labelled it) cited the Henry Sasser Bible (that is, Document A, as I called it) as a source for the list of children and dates of birth. But Document B, as such, is not taken from the Henry Sasser Bible. The part on Palatanite origin is obviously based on somebody's oral tradition, at best (at worst, it is an imaginary account written, say, as a assignment in school). As for the oral traditions I have been slowly sharing, all relate to a more recent time. None goes back to a time before Henry Sasser. And most of them have strong chains of transmission. Most are stories that I heard over and over at different times from a dependable source who was born only sixteen years after Henry Sasser died and who heard the stories over and over from those who knew him. And yet I try to be careful about stating any uncertainty that may be called for. I have been amazed so far by the extent to which my traditions have been confirmed by the written sources others have uncovered--and also by the tradtions that Cheryl has shared, notably the recent one about Jesse Sasser. I hope Cheryl will share more such traditions with us. But that is quite different from stories about the early 1700s whose transmitters are unknown. As for one more point in a maessage that began with the idea of being brief, I hope that the name "John Henry Sasser" or "John Henry Sasser, Jr." stops appearing. It is possible that that was his full name, but unlikely. Even if it was, "Henry Sasser" has been our patriarch's trademark for two centuries, plus nearly two additional decades. At most, the possibility of such a longer name that he and others did not actually use deserves a footnote in geneological charts or whatever. Glenn ***************************************** Glenn E. Perry Department of Political Science Indiana State University Terre Haute, IN 47809 USA E-Mail: psperrg@scifac.indstate.edu (812)237-2505 (office) (812)234-5661 (home) **************************************** ------------------------------