I'm just getting back after three weeks away and probably shouldn't be putting my two cents in as I'm not related to anyone on either side but.... I've done quite a bit of thinking and rethinking on what you have just written and I agree with much of what you say even if it took me long hours of agonizing over it. I think one of the problems here has been the definition of the word "fun" I assume you are using the word as enjoyable. Enjoyable as in doing research, enjoyable as in reading about these things and learning about America's heritage as the trials have affected everything and one even if they do not know anything about it just as the Dread Scott decision did. I think people look at the word fun and think of a party or a dance or doing some sport.Enjoyable as in cooking ( if you like it) or watching a documentary that isn't riddled with mistakes. Learning is fun-enjoyable to some. We don't want to become like the cast of "Morning Becomes Electra" nor do we want to be insensitive to anyone's feelings.Ancestor worship is fine, heck I have a shrine up in my house for mine, but to become fanatical and start building steel fences with barbed wire on top isn't healthy or wise. The world has become too small and with so many more people today than then we must learn tolerance and unlearn intolerance. That doesn't mean you have to accept wrong actions like the bombing of abortion clinics and the actions of 911 it only means we have a long way to go as a civilization( world wide) before we can assume we are civilized. I think more people should take responsibility for their own actions and not worry about what an ancestor did or did not do. Not doing anything is sometimes worse than doing something. What about all those who did nothing and just had "fun" watching? I guess it is the word and how it can be interpreted. When the inquisition asked witches if they had intercourse with the devil they were not speaking of sex they were speaking of a speaking relationship. By that definition Daniel Webster who had a speaking acquaintance with the devil before and during the trial had intercourse with the devil and would have been hung in Salem or burnt on the continent. They all seemed to forget that Christ stood around one day talking to him to. Sorry if I have waxed on...one thought leads to another as do roads... Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Jirout <juliejirout@hotmail.com> To: <SALEM-WITCH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: [SALEM-WITCH-L] Fw: History Belongs to Everyone > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Julie Jirout > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 5:44 PM > To: CICS > Subject: Re: History Belongs to Everyone > > Tom, > > The Salem Witch Trials is a moment in history for me. I do not feel personally involved in history, and searching out mysteries associated with it is - dare I say - fun. > > But anyway, I don't mean to offend you, and I am sincerely interested in understanding your point of view. There are others that have expressed a similar - if not slightly less - type of personal involvement in the trials, and I cannot for the life of me understand it. > > If you feel justified in taking a somewhat moral highground as a distant relative of a victim, then you must feel that it is appropriate for a distant relative of a perpetrator to feel responsible for the executions. > > Can you understand the dangerous repercussions of this? How many distant relatives of slave owners are now responsible for the state of the inner cities? How many successful businessmen are now responsible for property that had been seized from grieving widows? > > By being offended by the use of the term "fun" you seem to share in the injustice suffered by your distant relative. But, you are not and did not suffer through this injustice any more or less than I did. How do you have more of a right to say how their stories should or should not be presented than, say, I do? > > Julie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CICS > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:41 PM > To: Julie Jirout > Subject: Re: History Belongs to Everyone > > At 12:51 PM 8/20/02 -0400, you wrote: > > Tom, > > You don't believe that innocent men and women were harassed, persecuted, tortured, and murdered during the Civil War? > > YOU don't believe it is "fun" stuff to read about, do you? > > Tom > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CICS > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:39 PM > To: Julie Jirout > Subject: History Belongs to Everyone > > At 12:06 PM 8/20/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Tom, > > > >You wrote "I struggle to form fun associations concerning the Salem Witch Trials - even 300 years later". > > > >But without the turn of events that occured during the Salem Witch Trials, it's possible to say that you may not even be here. > > > >It's wonderful that you have a personal relationship with your heritage, but history belongs to everyone. > > > >Civil War Enactments are fun. Sorry. (And the history suffering involved is not even comparable.) > > > >The Salem Witch Trials are fun in the sense that they are still a mystery. Mysteries are fun. > > > >Tough luck, > > Julie, > > "Tough luck"? Who writes that? I am sure our accused ancestors had some of your "tough luck" as well. Yours was the only negative response I received. About 15 list members thanked me for echoing their sentiments. > > My only point was that this person specifically found "fun" in reading the accusations of her ancestor directed toward mine. I merely suggested she find a better word than "fun". > > I would be careful when comparing reenactments of military battles with the harassment, persecution, torture and murder of innocent women (and men). > > T > > Tom > > Tom Towle - Computer and Internet Consulting Services > towle@sbcics.com - http://www.sbcics.com > (805) 969-4517 - P.O. Box 5448, Montecito, CA 93150 > Corporate Member - HTML Writers Guild > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > > Tom Towle - Computer and Internet Consulting Services > towle@sbcics.com - http://www.sbcics.com > (805) 969-4517 - P.O. Box 5448, Montecito, CA 93150 > Corporate Member - HTML Writers Guild > > > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.comGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > >