Dear Celia: Both Joseph Rudd, Sr and Jr are DAR Patriots. About 25 of our family "went in" to DAR on Jr, and I discovered that a lady had proved Sr., but her papers were "closed". Finally tracked her down and got permission to open Sr's papers. Discovered almost no info on them, so completed them almost entirely and reentered them as my ancestor too. Don't know if I have copies of both papers or not. If not, our local chapter has them, as I put them there myself. Thanks for the offer. I've copied it off for future reference. Thanks also for all of the wonderful things you do for the rest of our gang. Dot DuMond