Thanks Sharyn for a great job. Yes, both of those are my clan. Tutorow & DOTORO are just 2 of 53 ways used in spelling those folk. I can connect to most except the "Then there are 3 children and one adult..." is a mystery to me?? Don't understand how these Lutherans got over into 2 different churches?? Could you put a location for these 2 cem? That country is all foreign to me! Lastly, you could do me one last big favor by looking in those same cem bks for my lost dead end grandparents Peter & Catherine TUTOROW YOUNG/JUNG. They m there in 1802 and then vanished in 1805??? I have only 1 known ch for them, a John David who later shows up in Lincoln Co, NC and TN. Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Sbisbey55@aol.com> To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Bear Creek Cemetery W of Mocksville - Methodist or Bapt?? > Dear Hal, > I do have that cemetery book and found no "D" names like that in the > index. > The closest "D" name was Detlor. > > No TAT*, TET*, TIT*, TOT* names but there were Tuterow and Tutterows > > Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery, p. 63: > Tutorow, Nancy L.M., caughter of S. and E. Tutterow, b. April 25, 1848, d. > 23 October 1862 > Tutorow, Samantha A., daughter of Samuel and Edith Tutorow, aged 1Y, 3M, > 10D, b. no date given, d. October 12, 1856 > Tutterow, Angelene Shore, wife of Rev. Grady L. Tutterow, b. May 29, 1924, > no death date given. > Tutterow, Edith, aged 65Y, 2M, 24D, b. March 16, 1829, d. June 10, 1894 > Tutterow, Grady L. (Rev.), Husband of Angelene Shore Tutterow, b. October > 26, 1925, no death date given. > p. 64: > Tutterow, Samuel, husband of Edith Tutterow, "Blessed are the dead that > die > in the Lord. Yea, saith the Spirit for they rest from their labors and > their > works do follow them.", b. 1821, d. August 10, 1878. > Then there are 3 children and one adult with no surname known. > "here lies the body of ---Fraklin aged 9Y, --M, 14D", b. September 14, > 1828, > no death date given. > (blank) (blank) of John Halld---f---, aged 11 years, no dates given > Sarah?, b. April 6, 1826, d. August 5, 18__ > Unknown, aged 46Y, 19D, no birth given, death January _____ > > pps. 126-128, 73 Tutterows in the Center United Methodist Church > Cemetery. > Here are the oldest ones, born before 1860 since you had talked about > 1830. > If you want some later ones, let me know. > Tutorow, Wm. N., aged 26Y, 10D, b. March 10, 1843, d. March 20, 1869 > Tutterow, Catharine, wife of Jacob Tutorow, b. February 29, 1811, d. April > 7, 1901 > Tutterow, J.A., August 15, 1810, d. November 10, 1870 > Tutterow, Emily P.M., Daughter of J.A. and C.B. Tutterow, b. February 27, > 1849, d. March 14, 1863 > Tutterow, G.W., b. 1840, d. 1899 > Tutterow, Jesse Bradley, b. June 11, 1856, d. March 25, 1905 > Tutterow, John V., b. April 5, 1839, d. December 20, 1923 > Tutterow, Louise, wife of J.V. Tutterow, b. September 13, 1849, d. June 6, > 1924 > Tutterow, Martha J., wife of J.V. Tutterow, b. 1839, d. 1871 > Tutterow, Mary A., wife of Thomas P. Tutterow, md. 2nd time to W.L. > Foster, > b. February 11, 1837, d. October 7, 1911 > Tutterow, Mary E. Watts, wife of G.W. Tutterow, b. 1839, d. 1932 > Tutterow, Thomas P., aged 50Y, 11M, 28D, b. May 7, 1821, d. May 5, 1872 > Tuttterow, William W., aged 78Y, 3M, 4D, b. February 19, 1819, d. May 23, > 1897 > > p. 286, Ijames Baptist Church Cemetery, 13 more Tutterows, here are the > ones > born before 1860: > Tutterow, Susana, wife of W.D. Tutterow, b. August 24, 1846, d. May 16, > 1921 > Tutterow, William D., Sr., b. 1846, d. 1922 > > p. 143, Chestnut Grove United Methodist Church Cemetery, 2 Tutterows: > Tutterow, Barry L., aged 75Y 9M, 15D, b. April 14, 1849, d. January 29, > 1925 > Tutterow, Mary J., wife of Barry L. Tutterow, aged 79Y, 6M, 9D, "A tender > Mother and faithful friend.", b. January 3, 1837, d. October 21, 1920. > > p. 176, Dwiggins Family Cemetery, 1 m. south of Center United Methodist > Church, > Tutterow, Mary, aged 41Y, 4M, 2D, wife of W.W. Tutterow, no birth date > given, d. February 12, 1858. > > Hope this helps, > Sharyn Fuller > > > >

Dear Hal, I do have that cemetery book and found no "D" names like that in the index. The closest "D" name was Detlor. No TAT*, TET*, TIT*, TOT* names but there were Tuterow and Tutterows Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery, p. 63: Tutorow, Nancy L.M., caughter of S. and E. Tutterow, b. April 25, 1848, d. 23 October 1862 Tutorow, Samantha A., daughter of Samuel and Edith Tutorow, aged 1Y, 3M, 10D, b. no date given, d. October 12, 1856 Tutterow, Angelene Shore, wife of Rev. Grady L. Tutterow, b. May 29, 1924, no death date given. Tutterow, Edith, aged 65Y, 2M, 24D, b. March 16, 1829, d. June 10, 1894 Tutterow, Grady L. (Rev.), Husband of Angelene Shore Tutterow, b. October 26, 1925, no death date given. p. 64: Tutterow, Samuel, husband of Edith Tutterow, "Blessed are the dead that die in the Lord. Yea, saith the Spirit for they rest from their labors and their works do follow them.", b. 1821, d. August 10, 1878. Then there are 3 children and one adult with no surname known. "here lies the body of ---Fraklin aged 9Y, --M, 14D", b. September 14, 1828, no death date given. (blank) (blank) of John Halld---f---, aged 11 years, no dates given Sarah?, b. April 6, 1826, d. August 5, 18__ Unknown, aged 46Y, 19D, no birth given, death January _____ pps. 126-128, 73 Tutterows in the Center United Methodist Church Cemetery. Here are the oldest ones, born before 1860 since you had talked about 1830. If you want some later ones, let me know. Tutorow, Wm. N., aged 26Y, 10D, b. March 10, 1843, d. March 20, 1869 Tutterow, Catharine, wife of Jacob Tutorow, b. February 29, 1811, d. April 7, 1901 Tutterow, J.A., August 15, 1810, d. November 10, 1870 Tutterow, Emily P.M., Daughter of J.A. and C.B. Tutterow, b. February 27, 1849, d. March 14, 1863 Tutterow, G.W., b. 1840, d. 1899 Tutterow, Jesse Bradley, b. June 11, 1856, d. March 25, 1905 Tutterow, John V., b. April 5, 1839, d. December 20, 1923 Tutterow, Louise, wife of J.V. Tutterow, b. September 13, 1849, d. June 6, 1924 Tutterow, Martha J., wife of J.V. Tutterow, b. 1839, d. 1871 Tutterow, Mary A., wife of Thomas P. Tutterow, md. 2nd time to W.L. Foster, b. February 11, 1837, d. October 7, 1911 Tutterow, Mary E. Watts, wife of G.W. Tutterow, b. 1839, d. 1932 Tutterow, Thomas P., aged 50Y, 11M, 28D, b. May 7, 1821, d. May 5, 1872 Tuttterow, William W., aged 78Y, 3M, 4D, b. February 19, 1819, d. May 23, 1897 p. 286, Ijames Baptist Church Cemetery, 13 more Tutterows, here are the ones born before 1860: Tutterow, Susana, wife of W.D. Tutterow, b. August 24, 1846, d. May 16, 1921 Tutterow, William D., Sr., b. 1846, d. 1922 p. 143, Chestnut Grove United Methodist Church Cemetery, 2 Tutterows: Tutterow, Barry L., aged 75Y 9M, 15D, b. April 14, 1849, d. January 29, 1925 Tutterow, Mary J., wife of Barry L. Tutterow, aged 79Y, 6M, 9D, "A tender Mother and faithful friend.", b. January 3, 1837, d. October 21, 1920. p. 176, Dwiggins Family Cemetery, 1 m. south of Center United Methodist Church, Tutterow, Mary, aged 41Y, 4M, 2D, wife of W.W. Tutterow, no birth date given, d. February 12, 1858. Hope this helps, Sharyn Fuller **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

Anyone have access to this bk - [or any cem source listing] Davie County Cemeteries, Volume I, Cemeteries A-K, compiled by the Davie County Historical and Genealogical Society. I need a lookup for the DETTRO/TOTHERO fam that were founders at 1831. Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Sbisbey55@aol.com> To: <ncdavie@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [NCDAVIE] Fw: Bear Creek Cemetery > Are you talking about the Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery? > > That cemetery has been transcribed into the Davie County Cemeteries, > Volume > I, Cemeteries A-K, compiled by the Davie County Historical and > Genealogical > Society. > Sharyn Fuller > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NCDAVIE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1182 - Release Date: > 12/12/2007 11:29 AM > >

Herman HUSBAND "In 1766 backcountry residents, under the leadership of Herman Husband, decided to "regulate" their local government, beginning with the formation of the Sandy Creek Association.  The Regulators' attempts to make government officials comply strictly and continuously with the public will on the local and colonial level fell victim to the far-reaching political ties of the courthouse rings.  Finally, frustration gave in to anger, and the self-styled Regulators challenged the government to comply with their demands by withholding their taxes and committing sporadic acts of violence.(Source: Johanna Miller Lewis, "Artisans in the North Carolina Backcountry", Chapter 7, Artisans, the Regulator Crisis, and Politics in Rowan County, page 118) Herman HUSBAND   In 1768, Piedmont farmers reorganized as the “Regulators,” and Husband served as their spokesmen, political thinker, and negotiator. He did so because he understood the farmers’ plight and articulated their demands. Consequently, Royal Governor Tryon continuously attacked Husband publicly and privately, and in 1768 Tryon arrested Husband and Regulator leader William Butler. Husband was soon released, however, and resumed his former role in the rebellion. In 1769, Husband represented the Piedmont in the legislature. But on December 20, 1770, the Regulator was falsely charged with libel; however, Husband was still expelled from the legislature and on January 31, 1771, Tryon ordered Husbands’ arrest. Sitting in a New Bern jail, Husband eventually learned that the charges of libel were dropped. He was soon released. On May 16, 1771, approximately two thousand Regulators confronted Tryon and one thousand soldiers at what became known as the Battle of Alamance. The Regulators were defeated, losing twenty men and almost one hundred wounded. As a Quaker and pacifist, Husband did not participate in the battle. Following the Battle of Alamance, Husband fled to Maryland and eventually made his way to Pennsylvania, where he participated in the Whiskey Rebellion. He lived outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, until his death in June 1795. http://www.northcarolinahistory.org/encyclopedia/55/entry Linda Monticelli ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

Pat, Were there any dates with this info? Do we know if this was the same Herman HUSBANDS? Be Well Joe McDonald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Frunzi" <patfrunzi@comcast.net> To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Regulators & Outlaws > Linda--do you have a date on the item on John Wilcox from the History of > NC > below? > >> I found the following?at Ancestry.com?in the "History of North Carolina, >> Chapter LXIII, Randolph County" where it mentions Herman HUSBANDS and >> John >> WILCOX. >> >> "Resolved, That the lands said to be the property of Herman Husbands, on >> which there is pit-coal, hearthstone, &c., be purchased or otherwise >> secured for the use of the public. >> >> "Resolved, That if John Wilcox and William England refuse to part with >> the >> mortgaged premises, it will be necessary to make a new agreement with >> them. >> >> "Resolved, If they will neither sell nor lease, that they be precluded >> from using any ore or timber from the vacant land of the State adjacent." > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Steve, This makes things fall into place. Be Well Joe McDonald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve O'Neal" <steveoneal_66@yahoo.com> To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] executions....list of 12 men excluded > The "battle of Almance" was a culimation of a number of years of unrest > and angst among the population. > > Men in the counties of Orange, Granville, Rowan and others had formed > loose associations to gather and talk about the injustices, waste and > corruption of the the local county officials long before the 1771 battle. > > As early as 1767 or 1768, and possibly earlier, some of these men began > calling themselves "Regulators", as they fully intended to regulate a > number of injustices that they felt were being inflicted upon them in one > way or another. > > In 1768, a series of distrurbances occurred. The Regulators generally > viewed them as gatherings of citizens to protest and voice their conerns. > The local crown officials considered them "riots" and issued arrest > warrants in some cases. > > I believe all of the 12 men listed on the 1768 Pardon list, along with > others, were arrested (or at least warrants were issued) and charged with > a variety of crimes, mostly having to do with rioting and unlawful > assembly. > > After a series of sham trials, some where those accused were not allowed > representation in the local courts, Governor Tryon began to sense that > public opinion in some areas was beginning to turn in some areas IN FAVOR > of these Regulators. > > To appease the masses, and to attempt to restore order in the > backcountry, he issued the "General Pardon" to ALL who were involved with > these distrubances in 1768, except the 12 men listed, who Tryon and his > local officials felt were, at that time, major instigators of the > Regulator movement. > > Some historians belive that Tryon was walking a tightrope between > retaining the loyalty of his local officials (who he recognized were > corrupt) - by excluding these "outlaws" from the overall pardon; and > attempting to quell the building sentiment of the citizens of these > counties - by pardoning the rest. > > So Tryon's 1768 general pardon had nothing to do with The Battle of > Almanace. The 1768 Pardon and the acts that led up to it were a > PRECURSOR, by a full 3 years, to the Battle of Almanace. > > > joemcdo@flash.net wrote: > Sorry about the last reply I misread the date as 1778. But with the date > as > 1768 I'm still confused. Why did Tryon make this list 3 years before the > battle? > > Be Well > Joe McDonald > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve O'Neal" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] executions....list of 12 men excluded > > >> Here it is, in case some missed it from earlier in the >> week: >> >> In 1768, Governor Tryon, reacting to the outcome of a >> trial of Regulators that he felt was a mockery of >> justice, issued a proclomation of general pardon to >> all the Regulators of that Spring except 12, whom he >> considered as the Principal Leaders. These thirteen >> were: >> >> James Hunter >> Ninian Bell Hamilton >> Peter Craven >> Isaack Jackson >> Hermon Husband >> Matthew Hamilton >> William Payne >> Malichi Tyke >> William Moffat >> Christopher Nation >> Solomon Goff >> John O'Neal >> >> >> --- AHamptonResearch@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Joe, I didn't save it, as the person I was looking >>> for was not on there. >>> Didn't Steve post it to the list? >>> arlene >>> >>> >>> >>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all >>> time on AOL Music. >>> >> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 >>> 48) >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>> to ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >>> >> >> >> Steve O'Neal >> steveoneal_66@yahoo.com >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Steve O'Neal > steveoneal_66@yahoo.com > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

unsubscribe In a message dated 2/11/2008 8:53:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, annsid@citcom.net writes: Hal, These two are still mysteries. I suspect that Susan might be from the bunch of Propst in Pendleton Co., now WV. Jacob has to be from or related to John Dettero or Totherow and Mary Hoffman that m. in 1775 - they had one son Michael b. 1776 in Shenandoah Co., VA. This bunch were in Burke and Lincoln Counties, NC. Another son, Jacob b. c. 1790 b. LC NC or somewhere around McMinn Co., TN. It appears that they were scampering back and forth from NC to TN from VA or WV. Ann K. Propst, Brevard, NC -----Original Message----- From: rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hal McCawley Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:12 PM To: rowanroots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC Ann, good to hear from you again. Thanks for your input. Heard anything on my Jacob DETTRO of Rowan Co, NC & Susan PROAPS who m 1 Jan 1820 in Knox Co, TN? Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net> ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

Hal, These two are still mysteries. I suspect that Susan might be from the bunch of Propst in Pendleton Co., now WV. Jacob has to be from or related to John Dettero or Totherow and Mary Hoffman that m. in 1775 - they had one son Michael b. 1776 in Shenandoah Co., VA. This bunch were in Burke and Lincoln Counties, NC. Another son, Jacob b. c. 1790 b. LC NC or somewhere around McMinn Co., TN. It appears that they were scampering back and forth from NC to TN from VA or WV. Ann K. Propst, Brevard, NC -----Original Message----- From: rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hal McCawley Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:12 PM To: rowanroots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC Ann, good to hear from you again. Thanks for your input. Heard anything on my Jacob DETTRO of Rowan Co, NC & Susan PROAPS who m 1 Jan 1820 in Knox Co, TN? Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net>

I sent this about 5 hours ago and it never came through, so I will try again. If they held to typical German traditions, then in German church records from Germany where the ages are given at confirmation, the "usual" [most common] age was about 14, although anywhere from about 13 to 17 or 18 would not be out of the ordinary. Of the 14 people that on that 29 Sep. 1811 were "confirmed to Holy Communion" were one married couple, Jacob ZURN [SAIN] and wife Elizabeth. The other 7 females were listed as "maidens". Of those remaining 7 females and 5 males, I find possible baptisms for only two individuals of the same names in the Heidelberg Church records where they were confirmed. A Susanna HENKEL [HINKLE] was born 29 Nov. 1788, so just short of age 23 if it is the same one. A Rebecca KLUCK [CLICK] who was born on 22 Dec. 1797, so she was just short of being 14 if it is the same one. Rick Saunders http://genealogypro.com/fsaunders.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1272 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 5:28 PM

Hal, During those very early years, ages for communicants and/or confirmation ranged from age 13 to as late as 18 due to the availability of a legitimate Lutheran minister to conduct the necessary instruction; also a certain number was needed to make up a class which I noticed in several church records in Catawba Co., NC area. I was confirmed in LCA and had first Holy Communion on Pentecost Sunday at age 11 upon completing a year of instruction during the school year preceding same on Saturday mornings plus written and verbal Q & A in front of the whole congregation! I was in 6th or 7th grade - time period was back in late 1940s in Washington, DC. My four sons took three years of instruction & written testing before being confirmed on Pentecost Sunday - ninth grade - Holy Communion followed same Sunday or Sunday next. ELCA has changed the practice of allowing Holy Communion to be much earlier after a period of instruction. Adult confirmation in ELCA currently is conferred after a period of instruction; and baptism usually occurs on same Sunday prior to confirmation unless baptism occurred in a prior Christian faith. Ann K. Propst, Brevard, NC -----Original Message----- From: rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hal McCawley Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:59 PM To: Rowan-L; NC-Iredell-L; NCDAVIE-L; bkluttz@mindspring.com Cc: djhoneycutt13@msn.com; WmTempCo@aol.com; Landers Lois Subject: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to Holy Communion in 1811Rowan Co, NC Could anyone help place probable ages for these children? CONFIRMATION: "On September 29th, 1811 those confirmed to Holy Communion were: 13 names including David Dothero and Elisabeth Dothero." Records of Heidelberg Evangelical Lutheran (Old Dutchmans Creek) Church located on the east side of Dutchmans Creek in what is now Davie Co, NC. [per <WmTempCo@aol.com> 30 Apr 2000] HEIDELBURG LUTHERAN CHURCH CEMTERY, [ OLD DUTCH MEETING HOUSE] is located Hwy. # 64 East to Cornatzer Rd. on left. Travel about 1 mile and has only 10 readable stones with only B & C surnames listed in Davie County Cemetery Books. [per Doris Honeycutt <djhoneycutt13@msn.com> 9/3/03] Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: Hal McCawley To: Rowan-L ; NC-Iredell-L ; NCDAVIE-L ; bkluttz@mindspring.com Cc: Landers, Lois Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: Fw: Rowan County Deed Need opines or legal opinions re age requirements for minors to take title in their name alone to land in 1803 Rowan Co, NC. The age of this buyer David DOTHERO will help determine which David he is and ages possible for him. Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net>

Elaine, Thanks very much for clearing up this John Wilcox' identity. Kathryn > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 19:47:38 -0600 > From: "Elaine Oakes" <eoakes@blueridge.net> > Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Regulators & Outlaws > To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> > > This John Wilcox is my gg...uncle. His sister Mary married John > Montgomery. > John's father was Thomas Willcox (the usual spelling was with two "l"s), > who > had one of the first paper mills in America. > > For more information, see "Historical Southern Families" Vol. I, > "KENDRICK of GLOUCESTER CO., VA, and NORTH CAROLINA", by B. C. Holtzclaw, > and > > "Ivy Mills 1729-1866, Willcox and Allied Families" by Joseph Willcox > (1911), which is available on-line at HeritageQuest. > > John Willcox died in Richmond County, NC in 1793 so is only slightly > connected to Rowan. > > Elaine Oakes > > >>>I found the following?at Ancestry.com?in the "History of North Carolina, > Chapter LXIII, Randolph County" where it mentions Herman HUSBANDS and John > WILCOX. > > "Resolved, That the lands said to be the property of Herman Husbands, on > which there is pit-coal, hearthstone, &c., be purchased or otherwise > secured > for the use of the public. > > "Resolved, That if John Wilcox and William England refuse to part with the > mortgaged premises, it will be necessary to make a new agreement with > them. > > "Resolved, If they will neither sell nor lease, that they be precluded > from > using any ore or timber from the vacant land of the State adjacent." >

Ann, good to hear from you again. Thanks for your input. Heard anything on my Jacob DETTRO of Rowan Co, NC & Susan PROAPS who m 1 Jan 1820 in Knox Co, TN? Best, Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 <HalMac@Cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Propst" <annsid@citcom.net> To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC > Hal, > > During those very early years, ages for communicants and/or confirmation > ranged from age 13 to as late as 18 due to the availability of a > legitimate > Lutheran minister to conduct the necessary instruction; also a certain > number was needed to make up a class which I noticed in several church > records in Catawba Co., NC area. > > I was confirmed in LCA and had first Holy Communion on Pentecost Sunday at > age 11 upon completing a year of instruction during the school year > preceding same on Saturday mornings plus written and verbal Q & A in front > of the whole congregation! I was in 6th or 7th grade - time period was > back > in late 1940s in Washington, DC. > > My four sons took three years of instruction & written testing before > being > confirmed on Pentecost Sunday - ninth grade - Holy Communion followed same > Sunday or Sunday next. ELCA has changed the practice of allowing Holy > Communion to be much earlier after a period of instruction. > > Adult confirmation in ELCA currently is conferred after a period of > instruction; and baptism usually occurs on same Sunday prior to > confirmation > unless baptism occurred in a prior Christian faith. > > Ann K. Propst, Brevard, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:rowanroots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hal McCawley > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:59 PM > To: Rowan-L; NC-Iredell-L; NCDAVIE-L; bkluttz@mindspring.com > Cc: djhoneycutt13@msn.com; WmTempCo@aol.com; Landers Lois > Subject: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to Holy > Communion in 1811Rowan Co, NC > > Could anyone help place probable ages for these children? > > CONFIRMATION: "On September 29th, 1811 those confirmed to Holy Communion > were: 13 names including David Dothero and Elisabeth Dothero." Records of > Heidelberg Evangelical Lutheran (Old Dutchmans Creek) Church located on > the > east side of Dutchmans Creek in what is now Davie Co, NC. [per > <WmTempCo@aol.com> 30 Apr 2000] > HEIDELBURG LUTHERAN CHURCH CEMTERY, [ OLD DUTCH MEETING HOUSE] is located > Hwy. # 64 East to Cornatzer Rd. on left. Travel about 1 mile and has only > 10 > readable stones with only B & C surnames listed in Davie County Cemetery > Books. [per Doris Honeycutt <djhoneycutt13@msn.com> 9/3/03] > > Best, > Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 > <HalMac@Cox.net> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hal McCawley > To: Rowan-L ; NC-Iredell-L ; NCDAVIE-L ; bkluttz@mindspring.com > Cc: Landers, Lois > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:21 PM > Subject: Fw: Rowan County Deed > > > Need opines or legal opinions re age requirements for minors to take > title > in their name alone to land in 1803 Rowan Co, NC. > The age of this buyer David DOTHERO will help determine which David he is > and ages possible for him. > Best, > Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 > <HalMac@Cox.net> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1271 - Release Date: 2/11/2008 > 8:16 AM > >

In the congregations I have belonged to confirmation took place on Pentacost Sunday. I know of others where it occurs at different times of the year, in some large congregations they have more then one confirmation service in a year. When I was confirmed we could not take communion until after we were confirmed. Now children take communion at generally younger ages. My children begin taking comunion between kindergarten and second grade. Our current pastor makes them wait until 5th grade. I know others (mostly episcopalians) who give communion to infants. **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

Myrna, I, too, was raised in the Missouri Synod...? However, my mother was raised ELCA...? Some of the practices differ.? I was told, at one time, that the Missouri Synod was the most strict...? hmmmmm Jan -----Original Message----- From: Myrna Madigan <myrna@ecicwireless.com> To: jweaks@forevermedia.com; rowanroots@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 5:33 pm Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC >From the [Catholic] Council at Trent in 1547 -- "As the Christian church expanded and grew, different practices developed in the East and the West. In the eastern churches confirmation or anointing was closely connected with baptism and first communion. Often times in the same service a person was baptized, confirmed and received holy communion. All three were considered sacraments. In the western church confirmation was separated from the sacrament of baptism. The local parish priest would baptize, but only the bishop could confirm. The bishop might come to a church once a year to perform confirmations. During the medieval ages confirmation became more and more infrequent. In the west confirmation was considered a sacrament during the first half of the twelfth century. However, it was not declared a sacrament by the church until the Council of Florence in 1439. In 1547 the Council of Trent fixed this as official doctrine that confirmation is a sacrament. The Council also fixed the age of confirmation between the ages of seven and twelve." However... "There were attempts within Lutheranism to return to the traditional form of confirmation without the Roman Catholic heretical teachings. In the traditional form confirmation emphasized the laying on of hands and especially the instruction which preceded this. First communion often occurred a few weeks or months after the rite of confirmation. Later in the 17th and 18th centuries first communion often took place one or two years after confirmation." And... "Historically you will have noticed that since confirmation was linked with the end of formal elementary education, it came at the age of 13 or 14." Today... Confirmation takes place, after two years of "Saturday School" instruction, at about age 14, on Palm Sunday. First communion for confirmands takes place shortly after. Adult confirmation classes are handled differently and are not as intense, usually meeting once a week for six to eight weeks. This is my experience with Lutheran Confirmation practices in my Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. Myrna Madigan Broadlands, IL > > On Feb 11, 2008 3:58 PM, Hal McCawley <halmac@cox.net> wrote: > >> Could anyone help place probable ages for these children? >> >> CONFIRMATION: "On September 29th, 1811 those confirmed to Holy Communion >> were: 13 names including David Dothero and Elisabeth Dothero." Records >> of >> Heidelberg Evangelical Lutheran (Old Dutchmans Creek) Church located on >> the >> east side of Dutchmans Creek in what is now Davie Co, NC. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com

I was confirmed in 1970 at the age of 15(when I was in the 9th grade) after 2 years of confirmation classes. That was the norm for LCA Lutheran Churches in northern Virginia at the time. My children were confirmed when in the 8th grade (again after 2 years of confirmation classes). our congregation (and I think many others) moved from 9th to 8th grade because it was so difficult to keep ahold of the children once they were in High School, unless they were already made to feel a "part of things" already. My great-grandfather was confirmed in 1871 at the age of 27 at St. Matthew's Lutheran Church in Rowan County, NC. He had been brought up in a Lutheran family and attended the same church from childhood (I am pretty certain). In the 1800s I believe children were considered "grown up" at the age of 16 or so, but I don't think that confirmation necessarily occured in their teen years. I think that they had to attend classes and be examined by the pastor (or the churh elders) before being confirmed, and that confirmation generally occured later in their teens or twenties. I can remember a man from my congregation who would be in his 70s or so now, telling of being regoursly examined by the elders of his congregation (and having to know the right answers). When I was in confirmation class, we had homework, quizes and tests, and had to recite the Lord's Prayer and the Apostles Creed. We also had to write a letter to the pastor telling him why we wanted to be confirmed. The congregation council was asked to approve candidates, but I suspect that was pretty much a pro-forma action based solely on the Pastor's recommendation. My children had to write and present to the congregation a sermon on what it meant to them to be confirmed. The congregation council also approved their confirmations, but again, based on the pastor's recommentation. I don't know if this helps or not. Ginny Atwell **************The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp00300000002565)

That is my understanding. 10 would be the earliest that they would be considered able to take part in the Sacrament of Holy Communion, provided they were considered otherwise eligible, such as the conditions Jan was talking about. You'd need to know more about these particular Lutherans and what was common for them. And more info on this David and Elisabeth. Going on the assumption that these were brother and sister and this confirmation was their first then I would believe their age to be in the 10-13 range, but that is sheer speculation. If this David and Elisabeth were husband and wife that joined this church together as adults, then they would be, of course, older. More data need... hope that helps. james w On Feb 11, 2008 4:47 PM, Hal McCawley <halmac@cox.net> wrote: > Thanks James for responding. So, without more info, they could have been > from 10 to 90 yrs+ old? > Best, > Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 > <HalMac@Cox.net> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James A. Weaks" <jweaks@gmail.com> > To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to > HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC > > > > Hal, > > > > They would be 10 or older. How much older, there is no way to tell > > without > > more info. > > > > james w > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2008 3:58 PM, Hal McCawley <halmac@cox.net> wrote: > > > >> Could anyone help place probable ages for these children? > >> > >> CONFIRMATION: "On September 29th, 1811 those confirmed to Holy > Communion > >> were: 13 names including David Dothero and Elisabeth Dothero." Records > >> of > >> Heidelberg Evangelical Lutheran (Old Dutchmans Creek) Church located on > >> the > >> east side of Dutchmans Creek in what is now Davie Co, NC. [per < > >> WmTempCo@aol.com> 30 Apr 2000] > >> HEIDELBURG LUTHERAN CHURCH CEMTERY, [ OLD DUTCH MEETING HOUSE] is > >> located > >> Hwy. # 64 East to Cornatzer Rd. on left. Travel about 1 mile and has > only > >> 10 > >> readable stones with only B & C surnames listed in Davie County > Cemetery > >> Books. [per Doris Honeycutt <djhoneycutt13@msn.com> 9/3/03] > >> > >> Best, > >> Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 < > >> HalMac@Cox.net> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Hal McCawley > >> To: Rowan-L ; NC-Iredell-L ; NCDAVIE-L ; bkluttz@mindspring.com > >> Cc: Landers, Lois > >> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:21 PM > >> Subject: Fw: Rowan County Deed > >> > >> > >> Need opines or legal opinions re age requirements for minors to take > >> title in their name alone to land in 1803 Rowan Co, NC. > >> The age of this buyer David DOTHERO will help determine which David he > >> is > >> and ages possible for him. > >> Best, > >> Hal McCawley 4178 Pindar Way, Oceanside, CA 92056 760.941.4716 < > >> HalMac@Cox.net> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "James Kluttz" <bkluttz@mindspring.com> > >> To: <HalMac@Cox.net> > >> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:29 AM > >> Subject: Rowan County Deed > >> > >> > >> > Help needed. I carry my uncle David Dettro as b 22 Oct 1790 Rowan > Co, > >> NC, BUT, I also show > >> > DEED: Jun 1803 Rowan Co deed 19/35 from Richard Leach to David > >> TUTTEROW. > >> > Can anyone verify the deed?? Any witnesses??... > >> > ................ > >> > I have published the Rowan County deeds up to 1840. > >> > > >> > The deed is on 19/36. 8 Jun 1803. Richard Leach to David Tutterrow. > >> For > >> 50 acres for 75 pounds on Bear Crk adj this grantee and James McGuire. > >> Wit > >> Harman Husbands. Prvd by Husbands at Aug Ct 1804. > >> > ................. > >> > I understand he must be 21 to take title to land in that era????? > >> > ................... > >> > Not sure about that. > >> > .................... > >> > > >> > James W. Kluttz > >> > Cary, NC > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1271 - Release Date: > >> 2/11/2008 8:16 AM > >> > > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ROWANROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1271 - Release Date: > 2/11/2008 > > 8:16 AM > > > > > >

Definitely! ----- Original Message ----- From: <janrobison2@aim.com> To: <rowanroots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [ROWANROOTS] Age requirement for Luth Ch confirmation to HolyCommunion in 1811Rowan Co, NC > > Myrna, > > I, too, was raised in the Missouri Synod...? However, my mother was raised > ELCA...? Some of the practices differ.? I was told, at one time, that the > Missouri Synod was the most strict...? hmmmmm > > Jan

Hi, everyone! I have a photo of David BEAVER, b. 6 Aug 1848 and d. 1 Apr 1917 and is buried at the Organ Church. Does anyone have a photo of his wife, Sarah Ann Louise CRUSE, b. 30 May 1851 and d. 11 Aug 1933 and is also buried at Organ. These are my great-grandparents. Should anyone else be related to David and Sarah, I will be more than happy to send a .jpg of the photo of him to you!!? Handsome man... Jan Robison Sanford, Florida ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com

>From the [Catholic] Council at Trent in 1547 -- "As the Christian church expanded and grew, different practices developed in the East and the West. In the eastern churches confirmation or anointing was closely connected with baptism and first communion. Often times in the same service a person was baptized, confirmed and received holy communion. All three were considered sacraments. In the western church confirmation was separated from the sacrament of baptism. The local parish priest would baptize, but only the bishop could confirm. The bishop might come to a church once a year to perform confirmations. During the medieval ages confirmation became more and more infrequent. In the west confirmation was considered a sacrament during the first half of the twelfth century. However, it was not declared a sacrament by the church until the Council of Florence in 1439. In 1547 the Council of Trent fixed this as official doctrine that confirmation is a sacrament. The Council also fixed the age of confirmation between the ages of seven and twelve." However... "There were attempts within Lutheranism to return to the traditional form of confirmation without the Roman Catholic heretical teachings. In the traditional form confirmation emphasized the laying on of hands and especially the instruction which preceded this. First communion often occurred a few weeks or months after the rite of confirmation. Later in the 17th and 18th centuries first communion often took place one or two years after confirmation." And... "Historically you will have noticed that since confirmation was linked with the end of formal elementary education, it came at the age of 13 or 14." Today... Confirmation takes place, after two years of "Saturday School" instruction, at about age 14, on Palm Sunday. First communion for confirmands takes place shortly after. Adult confirmation classes are handled differently and are not as intense, usually meeting once a week for six to eight weeks. This is my experience with Lutheran Confirmation practices in my Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. Myrna Madigan Broadlands, IL > > On Feb 11, 2008 3:58 PM, Hal McCawley <halmac@cox.net> wrote: > >> Could anyone help place probable ages for these children? >> >> CONFIRMATION: "On September 29th, 1811 those confirmed to Holy Communion >> were: 13 names including David Dothero and Elisabeth Dothero." Records >> of >> Heidelberg Evangelical Lutheran (Old Dutchmans Creek) Church located on >> the >> east side of Dutchmans Creek in what is now Davie Co, NC.

A thought on the ages - it may be that the children were past the ages now used because if they had no regular pastor, when a traveling minister came, all would be confirmed. A good guess is over those ages at least. I know this happened in other areas where there was no regular ministers. So knowing if the church had a regular supply pastor might make a difference. Oh yes, if you are interested, I found a new toy - a search engine called clusty.com. Lolene