The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.

How about Cairnbulg, which is about 3 to 4 miles west of Fraserburgh? Kate and David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Mitchell" <philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk> To: <ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing > The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit > this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. > > The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual > olde handwriting. > > http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm > > Philip Mitchell > > Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. > > > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== > To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm > >

Is it possible to see a much larger portion or the whole entry? It is very difficult to judge with so few letters. It looks as if it starts with R or A or K and my favourite is K followed by "i?v?r?n" or something different and ending I think in "vetle". Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 December 2005 17:18 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/

Thank you, Philip for supplying the full image which helped to eliminate some permutations. I can understand where Gayle is coming from but I am still puzzling and at the moment I am stuck - if I get a sudden inspiration I'll write again. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 December 2005 17:18 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Exclusive Xmas Game, help Santa with his celebrity party - http://santas-christmas-party.yahoo.net/

Philip, A gentleman called Allan Williams replied direct to me with the following suggestion: "Could it possibly be KINNETTLES a parish in Angus" At the time I discounted it and the following is part of the reply I sent: "I had considered that along with Kirrimuir in Angus and Kincaple and others but we don't really have a 'P' at the end of the word. I also thought about other KIN and KIR beginnings looking for Etle or astle endings, and Kinnoull in Perthshire and others. I even tried a road Atlas..." I have been giving it further thought and I now think that Kinnettles may in fact be the place. It is always possible that it was spelt differently in the past. Some of my forebears came from a section of a village which is called Balnapaling but I have seen this spelt Balnapellin and in various other forms so that may also have happened in Fife. I also studied the consistency with which he made the letters further down the page and while he made fancy capital 'H' for the name Hudson when he wrote 'Head' it was a plainer H however he is very constant in the letter S and all his capitals are of the same type and his small 's' is extremely precise. There is only one inconsistency in the 's' that I can see and that is at Railway Shunter if that is what it is? If this is a birth, childbirth was a risky business with 25% of babies dying and many mothers too. Some wives went home to their mothers to have particularly a first baby and if the wife's mother was dead she may have gone to an Aunt when families were much closer than some are today. Try the National Library for Scotland and look up the old maps section and look at maps in the 1800's and this might solve it for you. The link is www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html Just a few thoughts - hope it helps. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 December 2005 17:18 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

I can see how you would get the KINNE part at the beginning. However there is a doubt in the back of my mind about the first N. It is more elongated than the second one and I am wondering whether in fact it is two letters. The second part (TTLES) I am even less sure about. The letter after the 'e' has no riser and looks more like an 'a' or a 'c'. The second letter could be a 't' that hasn't been crossed or it could be an 'l'. As could the third. On the other hand, three lines above is the word RETFORD, where the 'd' looks like a double 'l' as in the mystery word. The next letter looks to me like an 'e'. As to the 's', I don't think so. I think there are no more letters after the 'e'. I think it is just a fancy ending to the word. There are plenty of other examples of this on other words on the page. If it helps anyone, the rest of this census entry for this family reads Daniel Fraser Head M 39 Railway ???? Scotland, ???? Sarah Wife M 44 Essex, Walthamstow Jeannette Dau S 16 Daniel Son 6 Scholar Notts, Retford Colin Son 2 Linc, Grantham The occupation of Daniel could be shunter, although he did have many descriptions for his job and may have had more than one job in the railway industry. The suggestions so far for the mystery town are : CAIRNBULG DORNOCH DORNEATH KINNEFF KINNETTLES KIRKWALL KIRKNEW RIVINVILLE Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. -----Original Message----- From: Anne [mailto:annejay55@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 01 January 2006 14:28 To: 'Philip Mitchell'; ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Cc: ALANWILLIAMSAT29@aol.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Help with old writing Philip, A gentleman called Allan Williams replied direct to me with the following suggestion: "Could it possibly be KINNETTLES a parish in Angus" At the time I discounted it and the following is part of the reply I sent: "I had considered that along with Kirrimuir in Angus and Kincaple and others but we don't really have a 'P' at the end of the word. I also thought about other KIN and KIR beginnings looking for Etle or astle endings, and Kinnoull in Perthshire and others. I even tried a road Atlas..." I have been giving it further thought and I now think that Kinnettles may in fact be the place. It is always possible that it was spelt differently in the past. Some of my forebears came from a section of a village which is called Balnapaling but I have seen this spelt Balnapellin and in various other forms so that may also have happened in Fife. I also studied the consistency with which he made the letters further down the page and while he made fancy capital 'H' for the name Hudson when he wrote 'Head' it was a plainer H however he is very constant in the letter S and all his capitals are of the same type and his small 's' is extremely precise. There is only one inconsistency in the 's' that I can see and that is at Railway Shunter if that is what it is? If this is a birth, childbirth was a risky business with 25% of babies dying and many mothers too. Some wives went home to their mothers to have particularly a first baby and if the wife's mother was dead she may have gone to an Aunt when families were much closer than some are today. Try the National Library for Scotland and look up the old maps section and look at maps in the 1800's and this might solve it for you. The link is www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html Just a few thoughts - hope it helps. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 December 2005 17:18 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Thanks for your reply - good to see how you are thinking. When I mentioned spelling being different - I was thinking of kinnetle or something similar - all the best. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 01 January 2006 17:26 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Help with old writing I can see how you would get the KINNE part at the beginning. However there is a doubt in the back of my mind about the first N. It is more elongated than the second one and I am wondering whether in fact it is two letters. The second part (TTLES) I am even less sure about. The letter after the 'e' has no riser and looks more like an 'a' or a 'c'. The second letter could be a 't' that hasn't been crossed or it could be an 'l'. As could the third. On the other hand, three lines above is the word RETFORD, where the 'd' looks like a double 'l' as in the mystery word. The next letter looks to me like an 'e'. As to the 's', I don't think so. I think there are no more letters after the 'e'. I think it is just a fancy ending to the word. There are plenty of other examples of this on other words on the page. If it helps anyone, the rest of this census entry for this family reads Daniel Fraser Head M 39 Railway ???? Scotland, ???? Sarah Wife M 44 Essex, Walthamstow Jeannette Dau S 16 Daniel Son 6 Scholar Notts, Retford Colin Son 2 Linc, Grantham The occupation of Daniel could be shunter, although he did have many descriptions for his job and may have had more than one job in the railway industry. The suggestions so far for the mystery town are : CAIRNBULG DORNOCH DORNEATH KINNEFF KINNETTLES KIRKWALL KIRKNEW RIVINVILLE Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. -----Original Message----- From: Anne [mailto:annejay55@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 01 January 2006 14:28 To: 'Philip Mitchell'; ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Cc: ALANWILLIAMSAT29@aol.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Help with old writing Philip, A gentleman called Allan Williams replied direct to me with the following suggestion: "Could it possibly be KINNETTLES a parish in Angus" At the time I discounted it and the following is part of the reply I sent: "I had considered that along with Kirrimuir in Angus and Kincaple and others but we don't really have a 'P' at the end of the word. I also thought about other KIN and KIR beginnings looking for Etle or astle endings, and Kinnoull in Perthshire and others. I even tried a road Atlas..." I have been giving it further thought and I now think that Kinnettles may in fact be the place. It is always possible that it was spelt differently in the past. Some of my forebears came from a section of a village which is called Balnapaling but I have seen this spelt Balnapellin and in various other forms so that may also have happened in Fife. I also studied the consistency with which he made the letters further down the page and while he made fancy capital 'H' for the name Hudson when he wrote 'Head' it was a plainer H however he is very constant in the letter S and all his capitals are of the same type and his small 's' is extremely precise. There is only one inconsistency in the 's' that I can see and that is at Railway Shunter if that is what it is? If this is a birth, childbirth was a risky business with 25% of babies dying and many mothers too. Some wives went home to their mothers to have particularly a first baby and if the wife's mother was dead she may have gone to an Aunt when families were much closer than some are today. Try the National Library for Scotland and look up the old maps section and look at maps in the 1800's and this might solve it for you. The link is www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/index.html Just a few thoughts - hope it helps. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Philip Mitchell [mailto:philip@pdmitchell.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: 25 December 2005 17:18 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Help with old writing The festive season is upon us and to entertain you all I am going to submit this problem to all of you as a Christmas challenge. The following web link shows an image from a census, written using the usual olde handwriting. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/pdmfh/place_name_mystery.htm Philip Mitchell Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software. ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com