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    1. Re: [RossGen] A Hebrides lass in Glasgow 1860
    2. Can't help, but if you need some info on the 'Iolaire' tragedy, I can probably send some material. Lachie

    04/17/2005 11:35:26
    1. Re:   [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions
    2. Don Munro
    3. David, As Lachie has told you, all Munros are welcome at the castle but it is not quite as simple as he stated. You cannot just roll up at the castle and expect to be shown round. The correct way of going about arranging a visit - & this is a quote from a higher authority - is as follows:- "For the moment the best arrangement for making a visit to the Castle is to either write or telephone my mother direct, Mrs E M Munro of Foulis, Foulis Castle, Evanton, Ross-shire IV16 9UX Scotland Tel. No. 0044 (0)1349 830212 giving as much notice as possible. She can then arrange a mutually convenient time with the prospective visitor(s) or make alternative arrangements if she is to be away at the time of the planned visit." Have a great time and if you visit the Clan Munro website you will find that you can even stay at the Castle - for a price, of course. www.clanmunro.org.uk & follow the link to "The Pavilion." Rosskeen is very close to the Castle and to the Storehouse of Foulis. You are lucky as the shop & restaurant have just re-opened after having been closed for some time. If you are not sure how to get there, visit the tourist bureau in Inverness & they will direct you. Visit the Storehouse first & they will give you good directions to the castle. By the way, my Munros are also from Rosskeen but I have hit that brick wall at about 1800 with my Donald Munro & Catherine Dingwall! Don Munro ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lachiemunro@aol.com> To: <ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions > Dear David, > > Since you're a Munro, go to Foulis Castle near Evanton. It's the home of > the > clan chief, and any Munro can show up at any time, and get a welcome. > > Also at Evanton, is the 'Storehouse of Foulis' which is the Munro Clan > Museum, which also has a viewpoint for local seals. > > I believe there is a museum at Invergordon of local history. Put the word > 'Invergordon' into your browser and you'll find lots of things. > > If you go to Invergordon, check to see if there's still a passenger ferry > across to Cromarty, on the Black Isle, or if you have a car, you can drive > round > there. Cromarty is worth a visit. > > > Lachie (Munro) > > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== > To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm > >

    04/17/2005 02:24:29
    1. RE: [RossGen] Re:   [RossGen] Visits to Ancestral regions
    2. Mark Sutherland-Fisher
    3. Hi folks, There hasn't been a ferry from Invergordon over to Cullicudden for at least 20 years but a 15 minute drive south of Invergordon and one mile from The Storehouse of Foulis at the foot of Ardullie House (another old Munro family home) is Ardullie roundabout and the causeway bridge over to the Black Isle which joins the Black Isle just below Culbokie. The Storehouse closed a couple of years ago and it was a big blow to tourism in Easter Ross. Hector had probably kept it open longer than a hard headed businessman ever would and last summer it was partially run as the museum and birds-of-prey visitor attraction but it always looked empty. About 4 weeks ago it was reopened as a self-service restaurant and farm shop by 3 enterprising young business people and the museum and birds of prey will be returning I understand. It is great to drive past almost every day and see up to 30 cars in the car park and hopefully this time it will succeed as a business venture as we have precious few supporting our heritage, in spite of the claims of the Scottish Executive and their lackeys! Since I am writing this message, do any of you have in your family trees in Ross-shire, Sutherland or Caithness, examples of Munros marrying Sutherlands? I would be very interested to hear the detail as we have some Sutherland families in Caithness with sons called Hector and they must therefore have Munro grandmothers somewhere in them. Cheers Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Don Munro [mailto:dmun1249@bigpond.net.au] Sent: 17 April 2005 13:24 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [RossGen] Re: [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions David, As Lachie has told you, all Munros are welcome at the castle but it is not quite as simple as he stated. You cannot just roll up at the castle and expect to be shown round. The correct way of going about arranging a visit - & this is a quote from a higher authority - is as follows:- "For the moment the best arrangement for making a visit to the Castle is to either write or telephone my mother direct, Mrs E M Munro of Foulis, Foulis Castle, Evanton, Ross-shire IV16 9UX Scotland Tel. No. 0044 (0)1349 830212 giving as much notice as possible. She can then arrange a mutually convenient time with the prospective visitor(s) or make alternative arrangements if she is to be away at the time of the planned visit." Have a great time and if you visit the Clan Munro website you will find that you can even stay at the Castle - for a price, of course. www.clanmunro.org.uk & follow the link to "The Pavilion." Rosskeen is very close to the Castle and to the Storehouse of Foulis. You are lucky as the shop & restaurant have just re-opened after having been closed for some time. If you are not sure how to get there, visit the tourist bureau in Inverness & they will direct you. Visit the Storehouse first & they will give you good directions to the castle. By the way, my Munros are also from Rosskeen but I have hit that brick wall at about 1800 with my Donald Munro & Catherine Dingwall! Don Munro ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lachiemunro@aol.com> To: <ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions > Dear David, > > Since you're a Munro, go to Foulis Castle near Evanton. It's the home of > the > clan chief, and any Munro can show up at any time, and get a welcome. > > Also at Evanton, is the 'Storehouse of Foulis' which is the Munro Clan > Museum, which also has a viewpoint for local seals. > > I believe there is a museum at Invergordon of local history. Put the word > 'Invergordon' into your browser and you'll find lots of things. > > If you go to Invergordon, check to see if there's still a passenger ferry > across to Cromarty, on the Black Isle, or if you have a car, you can drive > round > there. Cromarty is worth a visit. > > > Lachie (Munro) > > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== > To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm

    04/17/2005 11:19:11
    1. Re: [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions
    2. douglas clark
    3. Hello David and All This last week or two has been quite an extended family reunion for Rosskeen and surrounds with a number of familiar names coming up. Last week I replied to a message for Ross in Rosskeen quoting the 1881 census which referred to a "Hugh Ross".However according to the IGI he is Hugh Munroe Ross. His mother was Jane Fraser and her mother was Isabella Macleman (IGI shows Maclennan but as I have pointed out before, Donald Maclennan advised "This is unfortunate as McLeman and Mclennan are two separate and different clans.It would appear that transcription errors are responsible for this unfortunate error.There are a fair number of McLemans in the Parish of Avoch and even there confusion arises; particularly when a Mcleman marries a Mclennan!!! ". What was the population of Rosskeen in the 1880's? Anyway David possibly you have a family connection just "down the road" in Pinetown. Douglas ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Moon" <cicada@sai.co.za> To: <ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions > I am booked to fly into Edinburgh on the 2nd September 2005 with the > intention of visiting Rosskeen to visit the birthplace/area of my Great > Grandfather Hector Munro 1835 - 1871. > Has anyone done a similar pilgrimage who could offer advice that would > assist me in the planning? > I would be grateful for any ideas. > > David Moon > > Pietermaritzburg > South Africa. > > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== > To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm >

    04/17/2005 09:06:21
    1. [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions
    2. David Moon
    3. I am booked to fly into Edinburgh on the 2nd September 2005 with the intention of visiting Rosskeen to visit the birthplace/area of my Great Grandfather Hector Munro 1835 - 1871. Has anyone done a similar pilgrimage who could offer advice that would assist me in the planning? I would be grateful for any ideas. David Moon Pietermaritzburg South Africa.

    04/17/2005 07:12:19
    1. Re:   [RossGen] Visits to Ancestorial regions
    2. Dear David, Since you're a Munro, go to Foulis Castle near Evanton. It's the home of the clan chief, and any Munro can show up at any time, and get a welcome. Also at Evanton, is the 'Storehouse of Foulis' which is the Munro Clan Museum, which also has a viewpoint for local seals. I believe there is a museum at Invergordon of local history. Put the word 'Invergordon' into your browser and you'll find lots of things. If you go to Invergordon, check to see if there's still a passenger ferry across to Cromarty, on the Black Isle, or if you have a car, you can drive round there. Cromarty is worth a visit. Lachie (Munro)

    04/17/2005 01:21:29
    1. Chappul in Avoch(?)
    2. I'm very excited to say I will be traveling from Ohio to Avoch in a couple of weeks! My ggrandmother, Margaret Mackintosh was born there. I want to attend either, or both, the Avoch Church and "Chappul", as I'm not 100% sure which one my family attended. Can anyone tell me the time and place of services at Chappul as well as the Avoch church? It will be May 1st so I am also wondering how popular it is to go to Bay Farm on that day? I'm sure I'll be pooped from the grueling flight to London and then to Inverness....but SO WHAT....I'll be in Avoch! Thanks, Chris (MACKINTOSH, JACK, PATIENCE, REID)

    04/16/2005 06:34:35
    1. Searching for William McLeod and family
    2. Bev MacLeod
    3. Can anyone help with this McLeod family, please. They don't appear in the Church of Scotland Parish Records, so may have belonged to the Free Church. William McLeod, Merchant married Catherine Smith (according to the marriage of son John McLeod) sometime before 1855 Children: a.. Malcolm b.. Norman - believed to have married and had 2 children , Norman and Normae c.. John - supposedly born 18 Apr 1856 Stornoway Migrated to Queensland abt 1870. Married Sarah Anne Ryan 23 Jan 1886 at Cairns, Qld in Primitive Methodist Church. Died 1 Jan 1920 near Cairns. d.. Angus - believed to have migrated to North America. Presbyterian Minister. e.. Flora - believed to have married ? McIver and had one child f.. Ann On John McLeod's Death Certificate, his father was given as William McLeod, Merchant, but his mother was listed as Flora Macdonald. Perhaps a generation further back? This family has been impossible to track, so any help would be gratefully received. Bev MacLeod AUSTRALIA

    04/16/2005 12:06:58
    1. FRASER SCT to NZ-Australia
    2. Wilmer Fawcett
    3. Hello: I'm seeking any information about the following FRASER family (or members of) from the area of Tain, eastern Ross-shire, who might have emigrated to New Zealand and Australia before the mid-1800s. FRASER James, born Tain 1797 nee MUNRO Catharine, born Rosskeen 1798 (married Rosskeen 1816) Children: Simon born Nigg 1818 (emigrated to Canada before 1846) Christy born Tain 1820 John born Tain 1821 (possibly a surgeon in Edinburgh?) Mary born Tain 1823 Katharine born Tain 1826 Finlay born Tain 1828 Helen born Tain 1830 Anne born Tain 1834 The family operated a boat-building business in Tain or Nigg. The parents apparently died (family lore.they might have emigrated too?) and the children sold the business to a Ross, then emigrated. Any tips welcome! Wilmer in western Canada

    04/16/2005 05:45:17
    1. Re: [RossGen] extra certificates
    2. andrea
    3. Hi Joan I would appreciate the information for the names listed below. Deaths - 1942 - Stornoway: > Donald Morrison married to 1st Henriatta Macdonald 2nd Margaret Macaskill > Upper Bayble > Margaret MacLeod widow ofMalcolm MacLeod Keith Street Stornoway > Births 1871 Stornoway > Catherine Macaulay Shader Thanks in advanced Andrea

    04/16/2005 02:21:09
    1. RE: [RossGen] Occupation
    2. Jane Gow
    3. Thankyou all for your interesting answers to my question about "heritor" . Out of interest Mark is the church still there as it was originally built. Jane Coffs Harbour NSW -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sutherland-Fisher [mailto:info@highland-family-heritage.co.uk] Sent: Friday, 15 April 2005 6:23 AM To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Occupation Hi folks, A heritor was exactly as LAchie said, a landholder, someone who owned land, usually a laird or rich merchant from the crown or in towns and cities under free burgage. These men (and the occasional lady) were responsible for paying the cost of e.g. building and repairing the parish school and church and shared the cost of the Minister's salary. In Dingwall, because Davidson of Tulloch was the main heritor, when the "new" Parish church of St Clements required to be built in 1799 to 1803, he didn't like the style, costs etc and the only way they got his agreement to foot most of the bill was if the church was effectively built back to front, so as you come out the front door at the back of the church, until modern housing obscured it, people looked straight up Tulloch hill to Tulloch Castle, home of Duncan Davidson of Tulloch!! Regards Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Lachiemunro@aol.com [mailto:Lachiemunro@aol.com] Sent: 14 April 2005 08:41 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RossGen] Occupation A 'heritor' is 'one who inherits', but specifically in Scotland (under scottish Law), it is someone who is a 'landholder' (landowner) in a Parish - "liable to public burdens" (whatever that means?). Lachie ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ______________________________

    04/15/2005 10:16:10
    1. Eastern Ross-shire
    2. Wilmer Fawcett
    3. Would SKS who has access to these documents or publications of the Highland FHS let me know if entries might be found for James FRASER (born 1797 Tain) and Catharine FRASER nee MUNRO born 1798 Rosskeen? (or child Simon FRASER born 1818 Tain) If there are references to these, then I will order the documents from the HFHS. Thank you! From Canada -1851 census indexes for Tain, Nigg, Rosskeen parishes or nearby parishes -MIs for any church/cemetery in that area

    04/15/2005 09:23:25
    1. RE: St Clements Church
    2. Mark Sutherland-Fisher
    3. Jane, In 2001 we celebrated the Bicentenary of the present church, the back to front one and like my father before me, I am an Elder in it. The remains of the Aisle of the mediaeval church it replaced still lie about 10 feet to the north of the existing church, propped up with supports and fenced off for safety. A truly sad sight and a poor reflection on the local authority who will waste thousands of pounds on new office furniture for the council workers (to replace furniture only 1 or 2 years old) but wont spend a few thousand pounds to restore and preserve the remains of a 500 year old church. Cheers Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Jane Gow [mailto:janegow@bigpond.net.au] Sent: 15 April 2005 07:16 To: Mark Sutherland-Fisher; ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Occupation Thankyou all for your interesting answers to my question about "heritor" . Out of interest Mark is the church still there as it was originally built. Jane Coffs Harbour NSW -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sutherland-Fisher [mailto:info@highland-family-heritage.co.uk] Sent: Friday, 15 April 2005 6:23 AM To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [RossGen] Occupation Hi folks, A heritor was exactly as LAchie said, a landholder, someone who owned land, usually a laird or rich merchant from the crown or in towns and cities under free burgage. These men (and the occasional lady) were responsible for paying the cost of e.g. building and repairing the parish school and church and shared the cost of the Minister's salary. In Dingwall, because Davidson of Tulloch was the main heritor, when the "new" Parish church of St Clements required to be built in 1799 to 1803, he didn't like the style, costs etc and the only way they got his agreement to foot most of the bill was if the church was effectively built back to front, so as you come out the front door at the back of the church, until modern housing obscured it, people looked straight up Tulloch hill to Tulloch Castle, home of Duncan Davidson of Tulloch!! Regards Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Lachiemunro@aol.com [mailto:Lachiemunro@aol.com] Sent: 14 April 2005 08:41 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RossGen] Occupation A 'heritor' is 'one who inherits', but specifically in Scotland (under scottish Law), it is someone who is a 'landholder' (landowner) in a Parish - "liable to public burdens" (whatever that means?). Lachie ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm ______________________________

    04/15/2005 07:32:36
    1. extra certificates
    2. Joan Cairney
    3. hi I have extra entries on certificates following a visit to Register house. If anyone would like the information please email me. Deaths - 1942 - Stornoway: Donald Morrison married to 1st Henriatta Macdonald 2nd Margaret Macaskill Upper Bayble Margaret MacLeod widow ofMalcolm MacLeod Keith Street Stornoway Mary Ann Macdonald, district nurse, single George Edward Owen, married to Elzabeth Lillian Hanton, usual residence London Births 1871 Stornoway: John Macmillan Sandwickhill Catherine Macaulay Shader thanks Joan -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.8 - Release Date: 13/04/2005

    04/14/2005 04:29:32
    1. RE: [RossGen] Occupation
    2. Mark Sutherland-Fisher
    3. Hi folks, A heritor was exactly as LAchie said, a landholder, someone who owned land, usually a laird or rich merchant from the crown or in towns and cities under free burgage. These men (and the occasional lady) were responsible for paying the cost of e.g. building and repairing the parish school and church and shared the cost of the Minister's salary. In Dingwall, because Davidson of Tulloch was the main heritor, when the "new" Parish church of St Clements required to be built in 1799 to 1803, he didn't like the style, costs etc and the only way they got his agreement to foot most of the bill was if the church was effectively built back to front, so as you come out the front door at the back of the church, until modern housing obscured it, people looked straight up Tulloch hill to Tulloch Castle, home of Duncan Davidson of Tulloch!! Regards Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Director: Czech Match Ltd North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: (0044)1862 871877 Mobile: 07765 272815 e-mail: info@czechmatch.co.uk website: www.czechmatch.co.uk "Bringing Two Worlds Together" -----Original Message----- From: Lachiemunro@aol.com [mailto:Lachiemunro@aol.com] Sent: 14 April 2005 08:41 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RossGen] Occupation A 'heritor' is 'one who inherits', but specifically in Scotland (under scottish Law), it is someone who is a 'landholder' (landowner) in a Parish - "liable to public burdens" (whatever that means?). Lachie ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm

    04/14/2005 03:22:32
    1. Occupation
    2. Jane Gow
    3. Hi Listers, This is the first time that I have sent a request to this message board. I have a death certificate for James Stewart who states his occupation as a Heritor. On his wife's death Certificate Janet Stewart it states that James was a Heritor of houses). Does anyone know what this occupation is. It states in the 1871 census that James was a farmer. Researching CAMPBELL, CAMERON, STEWART, MACKENZIE (all in Scotland) Jane Coffs Harbour NSW Australia

    04/14/2005 11:36:08
    1. Tain question
    2. Wilmer Fawcett
    3. Hello Mark: Do you know of any webpages, listings, publications etc which might contain the MIs or burial information for the various cemeteries in and near Tain? I've tried for years to track down my Fraser ancestors, when they died and when/where they are buried. They lived in Tain and Nigg. James FRASER, born Tain 1797, and spouse Catharine (MUNRO) born 1798 Rosskeen. Thanks for any suggestions. Wilmer Fawcett, Canada

    04/14/2005 11:11:59
    1. Re: [RossGen] Occupation
    2. Lilian Campbell
    3. Lachiemunro@aol.com wrote: > A 'heritor' is 'one who inherits', but specifically in Scotland (under > scottish Law), it is someone who is a 'landholder' (landowner) in a Parish - "liable > to public burdens" (whatever that means?). > > Lachie Maybe one of the "public burdens" was that of imposing unwanted ministers on unwilling congregations which some heritors did, and which led to the birth of the Free Church in 1843??? Lilian

    04/14/2005 07:20:44
    1. Re: [RossGen] Elusive place name
    2. Peter Reynolds
    3. I've looked at the 1:25,000 OS map and can't see a house with a name like this in the vicinity of Kilcoy. Nor does a seacrh with postcode software throw up anything obvious. There are Balloan names but they are in Marybank several miles from Kilcoy. Kind regards Peter Reynolds www.peterreynoldsbooks.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cyndi Sweet" <crsweet@cfu.net> To: <ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:35 PM Subject: [RossGen] Elusive place name > I'm hoping someone can help me identify a farm/location. > > The Logan family farmed at "Ballnoe" or "Balnoeugh", Kilcoy estate, > Ross-shire. (Generally they lived near Knockbain.) Can anyone identify > this farm/location? > > Thanks for your help! > > Cyndi Sweet > > > > > ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== > To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm > >

    04/14/2005 05:38:35
    1. RE: [RossGen] Occupation
    2. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. ******************************************************************************************************************************************************* Public burdens literally comprised those financial burdens which heritors were liable to pay by law. Usually consisted of the salary to parish minister (of the established church) and parochial schoolmaster. It also included the land tax or cess but this could be redeemed. Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: Lachiemunro@aol.com [mailto:Lachiemunro@aol.com] Sent: 14 April 2005 08:41 To: ROSSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [RossGen] Occupation A 'heritor' is 'one who inherits', but specifically in Scotland (under scottish Law), it is someone who is a 'landholder' (landowner) in a Parish - "liable to public burdens" (whatever that means?). Lachie ==== ROSSGEN Mailing List ==== To remove your email address from this list, visit this url: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/maillist.htm PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. On entering the GSi, this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. Please see http://www.gsi.gov.uk/main/notices/information/gsi-003-2002.pdf for further details. In case of problems, please call your organisational IT helpdesk The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free

    04/14/2005 04:10:47