This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Roziar, Rosier, Rosher, Raper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/741 Message Board Post: Amongst the earliest settlers of Pickens, SC, there appears a Reuben ROPER. He appears in a single Census enumeration in 1830: Reuben ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves He does NOT appear there agein in 1840, but there is a Reuben ROPER in Forsyth, GA: Reuben ROPER: 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves The former record shows two males in the household. The elder male is age 70 to 79 (b abt 1751-60), while the younger male is age 20 to 29 (b abt 1801-10). The latter record in 1840 shows two older males in the 30 to 39 (b abt 1801-1810) and 40 to 40 (b abt 1791-1800), but the elderly male is clearly no longer in the household. Pioneer History of Forsyth Co. GA, at p.70: Military units and commissions: Shows Reuben Roper 12 Dec 1833 795th Reg There appears to be a record in the Georgia State Archives showing a commission of a Reuben ROPER as an Ensign for Forsyth County on 22 Aug 1836. (M.R. 1829-41, p.116). This sounds like something a younger man might receive. That a younger Reuben ROPER actually pulled out of Pickens is equally clear from this deed record: Reuben Roper to Lewis Fendley, Book C-1, p 141, 1835-1836, 160 acres Woolenoy Also in Pioneer History of Forsyth Co. GA at p.137: 28 Feb 1840 Friendship Baptist Church established...eleven who constituted this historic old church are:...Reuben Roper Reuben ROPER married Malinda A. STEPHENS on 27 Dec 1849, at Habersham County, GA. But this seems very clearly to be the same Reuben ROPER (b abt 1830 - SC), age 30, shown to be residing in Militia District 2, Banks County, GA, in 1860, with wife Malinda ROPER, age 37, and daughter Ollie ROPER, age 10. The wife and child are shown to both be born in Georgia. In 1850, Reuben ROPER, age 20, and M. ROPER, age 28, are shown to be living in District 38, Hall County, George, however, the Index entry shows this as "Reuben RAPER". There were no children in this household in 1850. A Reuben ROPER married Ann LEWIS on 18 March 1852 at St. Louis, MO. [Volume 05 / Page 488] These records make it at least quite plausible that the Reuben ROPER shown in Pickens County in 1830 was the younger man in the Census record and that the older man was someone else. Another clue that members of this ROPER family went to Forsyth County is the appearance there of a John ROPER who seems to have resided very near Reuben ROPER in Pickens. See my Post "1850 Census Record for John ROPER (b abt 1791 - SC), of Forsyth, GA" (23 Jan 2005 8:34 AM GMT) at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=739 for more details. * While it is most likely that the senior male is the head of household Reuben ROPER, it is also possible that the younger man is this Reuben ROPER and that the older man is a guest in the household, possibly the father or the grandfather. It seems most likely that the younger man would be shown as the head of household only in the instance that he owned the property where these ROPERs reside. It seems clear from the deed record from 1835-6 that this land was owned by a Reuben ROPER, but it is less clear whether this was the older or younger man. One clue would be the record of HOW and WHEN this tract came into the ownership of Reuben ROPER. * It is NOT readily apparent who this Reuben ROPER is nor where he fits into the ROPER genealogy. He is probably much EASIER to explain if the younger man is Reuben ROPER, as then otherwise unidentified older man could be ANY ROPER b abt 1751-60. If the OLDER male is Reuben ROPER, this presents the challenge of finding ANY OTHER traces of such a Reuben ROPER during the previous decades. It hardly seems possible that he could have lived to the age range of 70 to 79 without leaving some footprints in various official records. This Post is intended to present some of the evidence and to evaluate each possibility: (a) that Reuben ROPER was age 70 to 79 (b abt 1751-60), (b) that Reuben ROPER is is age 20 to 29 (b abt 1801-10) and that there is another older male age 70 to 79 residing in his household. * First, considering the possibility that Reuben ROPER was the elder male in the household, we have quite a challenge. I have been UNABLE to locate a SINGLE record showing ANY prior appearance of a Reuben ROPER anywhere in America prior to 1830. * Now let us consider the possibility that Reuben ROPER is the younger male and that the older male is another ROPER of a prior generation. Lets look at the possiblities most readily presented to us based upon the Census enumerations within the Pendleton District from 1790 through 1821. In 1790, these ROPERs and RAPERs are shown in the United States Census for Pendleton, SC: John ROPER: 1 - 3 -- 2 -- 0 - 0 [Capt. James HAMILTON's list or regiment, at Image 2 of 11] Thomas RAPER: 1 - 4 -- 3 -- 0 - 0 [Capt William McCaleb's list or regiment, at Image 3 of 11] The first figure is in each record is the number of males 16 and over. John ROPER and Thomas RAPER each seem to have been born before 1785. Though they each seem to have male sons under age ten, all of these would have been born AFTER 1780 and therefor could NOT be the older male. Nor could any of these clildren be a YOUNGER Reuben ROPER (b abt 1801-10). Here is the data for Pendleton District, SC, in 1800: Col. Brown's Regiment, Pendleton John ROPER: 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 248, Page 5, Image 11 of 125] Joseph ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 281, Page 6, Image 12 of 125] Charles ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 4 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 364, Page 7, Image 15 of 125] Benjamin ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 395, Page 8, Image 16 of 125] Joshua ROPER: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 404, Page 8, Image 17 of 125] Merriday ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [at household 408, Page 8, Image 17 of 125] Gilham ROPER: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 410, Page 8, Image 17 of 125] Col. Kilpatrick, Regiment 2, Pendleton Thomas RAPER: 3 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [at household 201, Page 21, Image 47 of 125] William RAPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 1 [at household 246, Page 22, Image 49 of 125] John RAPER: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 248, Page 22, Image 49 of 125] For those unfamiliar with the 1800 Census enumeration, the figures show: Males Under age 10, Males age 10 to 15, Males age 16 to 25, Males age 26 to 44 and Males 45 or more; followed by the same age breakdowns for females and finally a count of Free Coloreds and Slaves. Those in the age category 45 or more would have been born BEFORE 1756. If the older male was living in the household of a younger Reuben ROPER and was a ROPER living in Pendleton in 1800, then to be corn abt 1751-60 he would have had to have been in either the 26 to 44 or the 45 or more age category. That would reduce the universe of candidates living in Pendleton in 1800 to these: Col. Brown's Regiment, Pendleton John ROPER: 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 248, Page 5, Image 11 of 125] Charles ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 4 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 364, Page 7, Image 15 of 125] Benjamin ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [at household 395, Page 8, Image 16 of 125] Merriday ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [at household 408, Page 8, Image 17 of 125] Col. Kilpatrick, Regiment 2, Pendleton Thomas RAPER: 3 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [at household 201, Page 21, Image 47 of 125] Of course, the older man might NOT have been residing in Pendleton in 1800 AND it is also true that he might not have even been a ROPER at all. These could have also been older parents or grandparents of the wife. [For additional discussion and details for Pendleton for the 1790 and 1800 Census enumerations, please see my Post "ROPER and RAPERs in Pendleton, SC, in 1790 and 1800" at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=568 .] Here are the ROPER households enumerated in Pendleton District in 1810: William ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 6 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Page Imprinted 145; Film Frame 233, Image 12 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Benjamin ROPER: 4 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Page Hand Numbered 147A; Film Frame 238, Image 17 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Elizabeth ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Page Imprinted 148; Film Frame 239, Image 18 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Joshua ROPER: 3 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Page Hand Numbered 148A; Film Frame 240, Image 19 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Abs ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Page Hand Numbered 149; Film Frame 242, Image 21 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Charles ROPER: 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Page Hand Numbered 149; Film Frame 242, Image 21 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] John ROPER, Joseph ROPER, Merriday ROPER, Gilham ROPER and Thomas ROPER are all missing from the Pendleton enumeration in 1810. The fifth column gives the number of males of 45 or more again, which in 1810 would imply that those tallied in this column were born before 1766. So ANY of these showing at least one male age 45 or more could yield the older male in the Reuben ROPER household: Charles ROPER: 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Page Hand Numbered 149; Film Frame 242, Image 21 of 52 for Pendleton, 1810] Whoops, now Charles ROPER would seem to be the ONLY candidate. (I will show in another future Post why it CANNOT be this Charles ROPER.) It seems UNLIKELY that the older male in the household of Reuben ROPER was residing in the Pendleton District in 1810. At least if he WAS, he must have been living in a non-ROPER household. * Here are the ROPER households from the 1820 Census enumeration: Benjamin ROPER: 2 - 0 - 1 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 2 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 5 [Page 181, Image 19 of 98] Charles ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 -- 1 [Page 203, Image 46 of 98] (as previously noted above) Aaron ROPER: 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 3 [Page 203, Image 46 of 98] Joshua ROPER: 4 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 5 [Page 213, Image 66 of 98] We can eliminate Aaron ROPER and Joshua ROPER out of hand as the eldest male in each household wasn't yet age 45 or more in 1820 (b bef 1776). But consider that there was a Benjamin ROPER shown in the Census in Pendleton in BOTH 1800 and 1810. In each instance the eldest male in the household was age 26 to 44. Even if Benjamin ROPER was age 44 in 1810, then he was born 1766. And he would have been only 54 in 1820 and 64 in 1830. So Benjamin is NOT going to have been old enough to have been age 70 to 79 in 1830. This seems to leave only Charles ROPER amongst the possible candidates ROPERs aready residing in Pendleton, SC, in 1820. Charles ROPER DOES have two males age 18 to 25 residing in his household in 1820. So one of these COULD HAVE BEEN a younger Reuben ROPER. Here, I will leave the reader dangling for the present, with only the caution that I do NOT believe that Charles ROPER was residing in Reuben ROPER's household in 1830. I believe that this Charles ROPER was already dead by 1830 and that his widow was living elsewhere. * So if there the elder male in the household of Reuben ROPER was OTHER THAN Reuben ROPER himself, he almost surely must have been residing elsewhere in 1820. One candidate is Reuben ROZIER, who is enumerated in the U.S. Census in 1790, residing in Robeson County, NC. Here the 1790 Census records of the ROZIERs of Robeson, NC: John ROZIER: 1 - 0 -- 2 -- 0 - 0 Briton ROZIER: 1 - 1 -- 3 -- 0 - 0 Rueben ROZIER Jr.: 1 - 2 -- 2 -- 0 - 0 Rueben ROZIER Sr.: 2 - 1 -- 3 -- 0 - 0 [Images 2 and 8 of 10 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1790 Census data for this jurisdiction.] (Please NOTE that the name is spelled "Rueben" rather than "Reuben" in both the 1790 enumeration and the Index to that enumeration.) So here we find two Reuben ROZIERs, each of whom was age 16 or more and born prior to 1775. * In 1800, one Reuben ROZIAR is shown to reside in Fayetteville, Robeson County, NC, in the 1800 U.S. Census. Also in Robeson County are a Mary ROZIAR and a David ROZIAR. The Robeson County Census list is alphabetic rather than by proximity, so no inferences can be reasonably drawn from the Census as to whether these were closely clustered geographically, though each appears to have resided in or near Fayetteville. Here are their 1800 Census records: Reuben ROZIAR: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 David ROZIAR: 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 Mary ROZIAR: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 * Patience ROZIAR: 3 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Images 60, 61 of 77 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1800 Census data for this jurisdiction.] Please note that I am NOT asserting that these are ROPERs, but rather presenting and exploring POSSIBILITIES. This Reuben ROZIAR is shown to be age 45 or more in 1800, putting his year of birth as BEFORE 1756. David ROZIAR is shown to be age 36 to 44 in 1800 (b abt 1756-1764). Secondary sources researching the ROZIER family history tell us that the younger Reuben ROZIER was married to a Patience MUSSELWHITE. They were said to have married in Robeson County, NC, in 1785. That secondary source shows Reuben ROZIER Jr. dying abt 24 Aug 1798 in Robeson, NC. I believe that there is an extant Will dated that date. This appears to be reasonably consistent with the subsequent appearance of a Patience ROZIAR in the 1800 Census enumeration. Secondary sources tell us that the elder Reuben ROZIER had these children: Reuben ROZIER, Jr., Elizabeth ROZIER, Rebecca ROZIER, Briton ROZIER, David ROZIER, and John ROZIER. * In 1810, the elder Reuben ROZIAR appears likely to be the individual enumerated in Robeson County, NC, as "Ruben ROSHER": Ruben ROSHER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 He and his wife are both shown to be age 45 or more. ROZIER family historians tell us that Reuben ROZIER was born abt 1742 in Bladen, NC. Remarkably, Britton ROSIER appears in the 1810 Census, enumerated in PENDLETON, SOUTH CAROLINA! Here is HIS 1810 Census record: Britton ROSIER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Image 29 of 50 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1810 Census data for this jurisdiction.] Britton ROSIER is enumerated in Pendleton adjacent to Daniel GOODWYN. * In 1820, I suspect that Reuben ROSIER/ROZIER may have been enumerated with son or grandson David ROSHER in Robeson County, NC: David ROSHER: 2 - 4 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 5 [Image 21 of 43 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1820 Census data for this jurisdiction] Willey or Wiley ROSHER is also shown in the 1820 Census in Robeson County: Willey ROSHER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 [Image 37 of 43 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1820 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * As an aside, there is a Mashach ROSHER [Meshach ROSIER/ROZIER] in the Clarendon, Sumter District, South Carolina, Census enumeration for 1800. He seems to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-74). In 1810, this individual seems to be shown as Meshel ROSHER, enumerated in the same place. In 1820 Mish. [probably Meshach] ROSIER, age 45 or more, may be found in Sumter County, SC. I am inclined to believe that this is the Meshach ROSIER/ROZIER named in the Will of David ROZAR from 1760. The Abstract entry I found for this Will says that the others named include Ann (wife), John, David, Shadrack, Sarah and Mashack. * It also probably bears mention that in Division 89, Pulaski County, Georgia, there appear several interesting ROSAR or ROSIER families living in close proximity. These included HHs William ROSAR, age 27, Simeon ROSAR, age 24, Shedrick ROSIER, age 43, John RASIER, age 52, and John L. B. RASIER, age 21. Almost everyone in these families spells the name somewhat differently, but between all of the households, they have MANY variations covered. AMongst the children of the eldest, John RASIER, are Reuben RASIER, age 24, and Seabron [Seaborne?] RASIER, age 10, the latter suggestive that this family perhaps remembers its Colonial Maryland roots. * * * It may be that the sudden appearance of a Reuben ROPER in 1830 simply reflected the emergeance of Old Testament Biblical names within the ROPER family as a consequence of the Bible study of its Methodist and Baptist ministers. Alternatively, a ROSIER/ROZIER may have moved to Pendleton in the midst of a throng of ROPERs and suddenly recovered the ROPER name. In any case, it seems likely that the younger man in the household may have been a Reuben ROPER, too. If the elder man was named Reuben, it seems most likely that this was Reuben ROSIER/ROZIER following his son to Pendleton. If the elder man was NOT Reuben, then it seems most likely that this was either (a) an older ROPER newly arriving in Pendleton from elsewhere, probably from North Carolina, or (b) an older releative of the wife also living in the household of a younger Reuben ROPER. * * * We need to very carefully check the land records and probate records in Robeson, NC, Pickens, SC, and Forsyth, GA, to see whether there are clues which could help us resolve the mystery. We also need to carefully look at the other 1820 Census records for Northc Carolina and Virginia to see whether we can find another candidate for an older ROPER who might have moved to Pickens County before 1830. The land records might give us the best clue as to his precise DATE of arrival.