This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Johnson, Bugg Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/798.1 Message Board Post: Linda: While I do NOT pretend to have any special knowledge or expertise relating to this particular branch of the ROPER family, I would encourage you to focus on primary evidence rather than secondary accounts in obtaining a better understanding of this family. I believe that Dave ROPER has already e-mailed to you some summary information showing the data and relationships as they are presently understood. In this message, my focus is on what is actually known with a high degree of certainty. First, I would point out that Henry Clay ROPER and his wife Zora appear in the 1900 Census enumeration residing at Township 5, Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory [Oklahoma]: United States Census -- 1900 Township 5, Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory (Enumeration District 120), Sheet 28A 25 Jun 1900 Line 23, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, H.C., Head, White, Male, Born Oct 1858, Age 41, Married 12 Yrs, Born KY, Father Born KY, Mother Born KY, Farmer Line 24, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Zora, Wife, White, Female, Born Nov 1867, Age 32, Married 12 Yrs, 6 Children, 5 Children Living, Born MS, Father Born MS, Mother Born MS Line 25, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Liley??, SON, White, Male, Born May 1882, Age 18, Single, Born INDIAN TERRITORY, Father Born KY, Mother Born KY, Farm Laborer Line 26, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Alonzo, SON, White, Male, Born Aug 1884, Age 15, Single, Born ARKANSAS, Father Born KY, Mother Born KY, Farm Laborer Line 27, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Bela?, daughter, White, Female, Born Mar 1889, Age 11, Single, Born INDIAN TERRITORY, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS Line 28, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Rhoda, daughter, White, Female, Born Mar 1891, Age 9, Single, Born INDIAN TERRITORY, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS Line 29, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Pearl, daughter, White, Female, Born Jan 1894, Age 6, Single, Born Oklahoma, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS Line 30, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Joseph, son, White, Male, Born Aug 1896, Age 3, Single,3127, Dwelling 572, Family 582, ROPER, Rufus, son, White, Male, Born Jul 1898, Age 1, Single, Born INDIAN TERRITORY, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS [Imgae 1 of 25 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1900 Census data for this jurisdiction.] This record CONFIRMS a number of the details shown in the data summaries sent to you by Dr. L. David ROPER. It also reveals the existence of a prior marriage and two additional sons NOT SHOWN on the data sheet. Note that the two eldest sons, born in 1882 and 1884 are shown to have a mother born in KY. Also, H.C. and Zora ROPER are shown to have been married only 12 years. THe 18 and 15 year old sons are from a PRIOR marriage to a woman born in KY. This is further confirmed by the indication that Zora has had SIX children only five of whom are living by 1900. The dead child is presumably the child shown in Dave's records as Samuel Dutoy ROPER (b 22 Sep 1887, d 24 Oct 1888 - OK). The birth places of the children show that Henry C. ROPER was alrady living in Indian Territory by 1882, but that he drifted around a bit over the decades between 1880 and 1900. * The 1910 Census record gives us a bit of additional insight: United States Census -- 1910 Maxwell Township, Pontotoc, Oklahoma (Enumeration District 250), Sheet 2B 07, 08 & 09 MAY 1910 Line 89, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Henry C., Head, Male, White, Age 51, Married 2ND, 22 yrs in present marriage, Born KY, Father Born KY, Mother Born VIRGINIA, Farmer, General Farm Line 90, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Zora, Wife, Female, Age 42, Married 1ST, 22 yrs in present marriage, 9 Children, 8 Children Living, Born MS, Father Born MS, Mother Born NORTH CAROLINA Line 91, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Belle, daughter, Female, Age 21, Married 1ST, 4 yrs in present marriage, 1 Child, 1 Child Living, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS, Farm Laborer, Home Farm Line 92, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Rhona, daughter, Female, Age 19, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS, Farm Laborer, Home Farm Line 93, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Joseph, son, Male, Age 13, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS, Farm Laborer, Home Farm Line 94, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Rufus, son, Male, Age 11, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS, Farm Laborer, Home Farm Line 92, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Henry, son, Male, Age 9, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS Line 92, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Monroe, son, Male, Age 6, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS Line 92, Dwelling 195, Family 195, ROPER, Lila, son [sic], Female, Age 3, Single, Born OK, Father Born KY, Mother Born MS [Imgae 18 of 36 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1910 Census data for this jurisdiction.] The indication in the 1910 Census record is that Henry Clay ROPER's MOTHER was born in Virginia, rather than Kentucky. Zora's mother is shown to have been born in North Carolina. * I have NOT yet found Henry C. ROPER in the 1880 Census enumeration. If he was already in the Indian Territory in 1880, he may be very difficult to locate. * As you indicate, secondary sources show Amanda M. BUGG marrying a Christopher Columbus JOHNSON on 24 SEP 1867 in Clinton, Hickman Co., KY. The authority of this assertion is unclear to me, though it is sufficiently specific to readily lend itself to verification. This Christopher Columbus JOHNSON is shown to have been born on 07 AUG 1847 and to have died on 12 JUL 1921 in either Shawnee, Oklahoma, or in Butler, KY. Amanda is shown to have been born 06 AUG 1838 and to have died on 19 MAY 1892 in Shawnee Oklahoma. There DOES seem to be a Kentucky death certificate showing the death of a Columbus C. JOHNSON at age 74 on 12 JUL 1921 [Vol. 29, Certificate 14150]. I would think that this is authoritative as to the place of death of Christopher Columbus JOHNSON, though I would encourage you to obtain the death certificate to see what it says. This seems likely to be the individual shown in the 1920 Census as Columbus JOHNSON, age 74, residing at the Home of Aged and Infirm, St. Helris, Jefferson County, KY (Enumeration District 236). However, this Columbus JOHNSON is shown to be SINGLE rather than a WIDOWER. I AM NOT CONFIDENT THAT THIS IS THE SAME CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS JOHNSON WHO IS ASSERTED TO HAVE MARRIED AMANDA BUGG, BUT SOMEONE WITH SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF TE FAMILY MAY KNOW. It appears to me that this particular Columbus JOHNSON may have been the Columbus JOHNSON enumerated in the 1900 Census residing at Morgantown, Butler County, KY. THe record is very difficult to read, but the children within this household all seem to have been born in KY. If you are aware of a Census record showing BOTH Christopher Columbus JOHNSON and Amanda BUGG, perhaps you can share that information with us. * * * I am unclear as to precisely what PRIMARY source infomration supports the ascription of Henry Clay ROPER as the son of Joseph Allen ROPER OR the ascription of Joseph Allen ROPER as the son of Dutoy ROPER (b 25 Mar 1810 - Woodford, KY, d bef 1846). I presume that there exists some Will or Administration supporting this ascription, but it would be handy if someone Posted that information. You might want to refer to several of my previous Posts showing some other primary evidence regarding ROPERs from this part of Kentucky. For example, my Post "1860 Census Record for Dutoy ROPER (b abt 1835/6 - KY), of Moscow, Hickman County, KY" [3 Jan 2005 7:01 AM GMT] at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/rw/surnames.roper/735 seems to show Harriet Ross ROPER, age 54 (b abt 1806 - NC) residing with her son and daughter-in-law, Dutoy and Burnetta ROPER, age 24 and 19, respectively. There is an Elam ROPER,age 42 (b abt 1818 - KY), nearby. My Post "1850 Census Record for Harriett ROPER (b abt 1805 - NC), of Hickman County, KY" [3 Jan 2005 7:16 AM GMT] at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/rw/surnames.roper/736 shows Harriet with four children in her household. My previous Post cited erroneous identifies Joseph ROPER, age 13 (b abt 1837 - KY), as FEMALE. Of course, the original record shows him to be MALE. This rather clearly demonstrates that there WAS a Joseph ROPER within the household of Harriet ROPER, which Joseph ROPER seems likely to have been Dutoy and Harriet ROPER's SON. * my Post "1850 Census Record for Lewis ROPER (b abt 1824 - KY), of Fulton, KY" (31 Aug 2003 9:09 PM GMT) at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/rw/surnames.roper/648 shows a Joseph ROPER, age 12 (b abt 1838 - KY), residing within the household of Lewis and Rosella ROPER, age 26 and 22, respectively. He is listed after several children and appears likley to be Lewis ROPER's younger brother, nephew or cousin. There is a Joseph ROPER, age 4, in this household, who appears to be Lewis ROPER's son. Please note that the Joseph ROPER in Lewis ROPER's household is virtually indistinguishable in age from the Joseph ROPER who is shown to be residing within Harriet ROPER's household in 1850. This introduces more than a little prospect for a misascription. * One of these Joseph ROPERs MIGHT BE the J. E. ROPER, age 23 (b abt 1837 - KY) shown to be a farm hand with the household of W. G. McGRIER, in Yuba, SUtter County, CA, in 1860. * There is also a Joseph ROPER, age 21 (b abt 1839 - KY) residing within the household of Delilah ROPER, age 46, in Fulton, KY, in 1860. * ANd there is a J. ROPER or J. RAPER, age 23, residing with wife N. ROPER or RAPER, age 12, and two children S. E. ROPER/RAPER, age 3, and W. H. ROPER/RAPER, age 1, in Marshall County, KY. There are two other ROPER/RAPER households immediately adjacent on the same CEnsus page. * ANd there is a Josephus ROSSEN, age 28 (b abt 1832), apparently residing within the household of Thoams GOLDSMITH, in Columbus, Hickman County, KY, in 1860. The subsequent record shows a Saphronia B. ", possibly meaning Saphronia B. ROSSEN and possibly meaning Saphronia B. GOLDSMITH, age 20. Children Preston A. ", age 6, and Mary R. ", age 1/12, immediately follow Saphronia. * The Joseph ROPER, age 8, shown in the household of James B. MCCLELLAND and Zulima ROPER, seems too young to have been Joseph Allen ROPER. Accepting that Joseph Allen ROPER married in 1858, this Joseph would have been only age 16. (See my Post "1850 Census Record for Zulima ROPER (b abt 1815 - KY), of Fulton, KY", 31 Aug 2003 8:46 PM GMT, at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/rw/surnames.roper/647 .) * * * The 1860 Census shows a Sherwood and Sarah BUGG, age 59 (b 1801 - NC) and 40 (b 1820 - VA), respectively, residing in Moscow, Hickman County, KY. This couple is a few Census pages away from Harriet ROPER mentioned above. These seem to possibly be Amanda BUGG's parents. However, I CANNOT seem to locate Amanda in the 1850 Census. Aboutthe best match is the Amanda M. BUGG, age 17 (b abt 1833 - MO), who seems to be residing with husband John B. BUGG, age 25 (b abt 1825 - VA) in Boone County, Missouri, in 1850. * * * I would also recommend to you my Post "1840 Census Record for Hickman, KY, ROPERs" [31 Aug 2003 10:48 PM GMT] at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/rw/surnames.roper/650 . Preumably, the Dutoy ROPER shown is the husband of Harriet and father of Joseph ROPER. * * * With respect to your suggestion that Joseph Allen ROPER might have divorced Amanda, this seems almost inconceivable to me. Divorce was VERY RARE in those days. If Amanda remarried, this is a strong indication that Joseph Allen ROPER was DEAD. * * * It is unclear to me whether this information is of any great help. Someone with a particularly kean interest in this ROPER family probably needs to pull marriage, probate and deed records from Hickman County, Kentucky, to gain a clearer picture of this family. There are also several Kentucky Land Grants (1822-1858) shown on Book 2, at Pages 88 and 89 that bear scrutiny. Finding the precise dates of these grants and the location of the land would be very useful.