This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1932/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As we know from the Moore Family Bible, Charles Roper was born on April 19, 1758, one of a number of sons of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn of Dinwiddie, VA. From the same Bible, we also know that he married Elizabeth Butler, and they had the following children, as transcribed by William Alexander Roper, Jr: Nancy ROPER (b 06 Apr 1777) m Benjamin MOORE on 22 Dec 1796 Elizabeth ROPER m Banister SHCKLEFORD Martha ROPER m Richard LEDBETTER Joseph ROPER m Miss WHITEHEAD Dolly ROPER m Louis MEREDITH Goodwin ROPER, died in youth I have not found a posting on the Roper-L Archives which specifically addresses Charles Roper and his wife Elizabeth Butler, and their child Joseph Roper. Also, although Joseph W. Roper is considered by secondary source to be the grandchild Charles and Elizabeth, the identity of the father of Joseph W. Roper seems to be unclear. I think a case can be made that Joseph, son of Charles and Elizabeth, was that father. The L. David Roper data base has these early records which show Charles Roper, Jr. in association with his father Charles Roper, Sr.: "Fothergill's Virginia Taxpayers 1782-1787 lists: First number is white pole (m21-50), second is slaves. Dinwiddie Co.: Charles Roper, Sr. 2 3 Charles Roper, Jr. 1 - A 1782 tax list for Dinwiddie County lists: free male, negro >21, negro <21, horses, cattle Charles Roper Jr 1 - - 2 10; Charles Roper Sen 2 2 1 4 17 1787 tax lists of Virginia: (wm16-21,b>16,b0-16,horses,cattle) Dinwiddie Co.: Charles Roper, Jr. 0 0 1 2 7; Charles Roper, Sr. 2 3 5 5 19 William Meredith 0 3 6 3 12; David Meredith 0 0 0 0 0 Dinwiddie County will of William Hudson, D.13 Sep 1789. My crop of corn, fodder, wheat, and oats both in the house and growing in the field to be sold to pay debts. Legatee: Nancy Wilds 1 negro for life enumerated personalty; the former to her lawful issue, or failing such to Irby Hudson son of Irby. Brother: Irby Hudson 100 acres adjoining him on Stony Creek, including the building whereon I now live, 1 horse, 1 negro. Brother: Tutle Hudson the remainder part of my land, 1 negro. Sister: Penelope Hudson 1 horse, the use of 1 negro for her life and then to her lawful issue, failing such toSally Hudson dau. of Irby. Legatee: Sally Hudson dau. of Irby 1 bed and furniture. Legatee: Penelope Young one cow and calf. Brothers: Irby and Tutle Hudson the labor of 1 negro for their lives and then to the survivor. All the balance of my estate not disposed of, including my outstanding debts. Sister: Penelope Hudson to care for Nancy Wilds and raise her in a Christian manner. Exec: Irby and Tuttle Hudson. With: Charles Roper, Jr., Joel Roper, Elizabeth Roper. 15 Feb 1790 Dinwiddie Co. Hudson qualified with Charles Roper, Jr. and Ambrose Brown securities. R Sep Court 1790 Dinwiddie Co. Tuttle Hudson qualified with George Pegram security. Dinwiddie Co. VA Land Records 1752-1820: Anderson, James-1794 taxed on 374 a conv 70 a to Richard Mayes. 1795-1796 taxed on 359 3/4 a conv 14 1/4 a to Joel Roper. Claiborne, Matt M.- 1798 taxed on 500a, 10a, 259a conv by Irby Hudson & 198a conv by Wm. Cole & 100a conv by Joel Roper... Charles Roper, Sr.-1787-1790 taxed on 200a. 1791 Estate taxed on 200a. 1792 taxed on 200a no Estate and no Sr. Charles Roper, Jr.-1787-1801 taxed on 330a. Joel Roper-1795-1797 taxed on 14 1/2a conv by James Anderson. 1798-1806 taxed on 200a, 14 1/2a & 100a conv by Matt M. Claiborne. Michael Roper-1787-1812 taxed on 200a. 1800 tax lists: (wm>21,horses,b12-16,b>16)(horses,b>16,b12-16) Dinwiddie Co.: Joel Roper5 4 1 Charles Roper 5 0 1 (and Goodwyn Roper, over 16)" Joel Roper would be the brother of Charles Roper, Jr. Goodwyn Roper would be the son of Charles Roper, Jr. Thanks to the Age of the Internet, it is no longer necessary to rely on these Land Tax Record abstracts or to travel to Dinwiddie County, VA to examine the actual images. All of the images are now available at the following website: "Dinwiddie County, VA- Official Website- Land Tax Books". The images are for the Land Tax records of Dinwiddie County, commencing in 1782 and ending in 1875. Most are very clear images and they are alphabetized for easy access. The records are incomplete for the years 1783-1786, and I could not pull up the records for 1803-1804. Otherwise, they appear to be the complete records for all the other years. There are primarily four Ropers who appear quite early in these records: Charles Roper Sr., Charles Roper, Jr., Joel Roper, and Michael Roper. Michael Roper is an unknown to me. He appears mostly in the "A" section of the records, e.g. 1797A, 1798A, etc. The other three Ropers mostly appear in the "B" section of the records, e.g. 1997B, 1798B, etc. I will not be discussing Michael Roper. Starting in 1782, Charles Roper, Sr. and Charles Roper, Jr. can be found. Charles Roper, Sr. is shown owning 200 acres. Charles Roper, Jr. is shown owning 330 acres. This will remain consistent for many years: 1782 Charles Roper, Sr. 200 acres Charles Roper, Jr. 330 acres 1787B Ditto 1788B Ditto 1789B Ditto 1790B Ditto 1791B Ditto 1792B Ditto 1793B Ditto 1794B Ditto 1795B Charles Roper, Sr. Est. 200 acres Charles Roper, Jr. 330 acres Apparently, this or the year before is the year that Charles Roper, Sr. died. 1796B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres Apparently, Joel Roper either inherited the land of Charles Roper, Sr., or he acquired the land as a part of the Estate of Charles Roper, Sr. 1797B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 1798B Ditto 1799B Ditto 1800B Ditto 1801B Ditto 1802B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 44 acres 1 acre 1803B ( Blank) 1804 (Cannot access document) 1805 Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 300 acres 44 acres 1 acre 1806 Ditto (However, there is a description of Charles Roper's 1 acre parcel which I cannot make out that states there is a "muling ?" or "huling?" house on the one acre). 1807A Joel Roper Est 200 acres 14 œ acres 100 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 44 acres As can be seen by the last record, Joel Roper has died. These records will continue on for many years, listing the Joel Roper, Est property and Charles Roper's property. I will return to Charles Roper later. >From these records, we learn that Charles Roper, Jr. is consistently shown residing in Dinwiddie County, VA from 1782. However, I will now turn to the Dinwiddie population census records, which are extant from 1810 onward. Charles Roper, Jr. can next be found in the 1810 Dinwiddie County, VA census: Charles Roper 1-1-0-0-1*****0-0-0-0-1 Charles is shown as age 45 , with a presumed wife age 45 . They have one male<1-, and one male 10-15 residing in the home. The age of Charles is consistent with his being born in 1758. Charles Roper, Jr. can next be found in the 1820 Dinwiddie County, VA census: Charles Roper 1-0-1-1-0-1*****1-2-0-1-1 Charles Roper is again shown at age 45 , with a presumed wife age 45 . There appears to be a younger family residing with them consisting of a female age 26-44, a female <10, and two females 10-15. Also residing with them are a male 16-25, a male 16-18, and a male <10. Charles would now be 62 years of age. So we could surmise that the wife might be about the same age. Charles does not appear in the 1830 Dinwiddie County, VA census. However, in that year, we have the appearance of an Elizabeth Roper: Elizabeth Roper 0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0 Elizabeth Roper is age 70-80. There is one male 15-19. There is a female 40-49, with one female age 20-29. Elizabeth Roper would have been born 1750-1760. Elizabeth Roper is in fact Elizabeth Butler Roper, the widow of Charles Roper, Jr., who was born in 1758. I will demonstrate this shortly. Elizabeth Roper is not seen after the 1830 census. She died in Dinwiddie County around 1837, as is evidenced by the following correspondence taken from the L. David Roper database: "On 24 Nov 1830 Boswell Hutchings, Cloverdale, Dinwiddie Co. VA, wrote his brother, William Hutchings, Cainsfork, Wilson Co. TN: Boswell says to tell Mr. Moore that Grandmother Roper is in tolerable health as are all of her family. On 3 Mar 1837 L. M. Southerland, Fork Inn, Dinwiddie Co. VA, wrote R. R. Moore of Sandy Ridge, TN: Mrs. Charles Roper is dead. Cousin Joe is in good health and bought the land the old lady lived on. Uncle Boswell is very low. Mrs. Roper died about the first of last Feb. Deed: 26 Jan 1818 Archibald Smith heirs, 59.5 ac., adj. Charles Roper & Hogwood line." R. R. Moore of Sandy Ridge, TN is probably Robert R. Moore, son of Benjamin Moore and Nancy Roper, as shown in the Moore Family Bible, which I will quote in part: "Benjamin Moore married Nancy Roper his own cousin, Dec. 22, 1796 Benjamin Moore died Feb 1, 1849. Nancy Roper Moore (died) June 15,1850, Virginians by birth. Their children born died Martha Ann Moore Jan 1?, 1768---- Feb 15, 1864 Robert R. Moore April 23, 1800 May 26, 1849...." Nancy Roper (Moore) born April 6, 1777 is shown in the Moore Family Bible as the daughter of Charles Roper II and Elizabeth Butler. So who is "cousin Joe" who bought Mrs. Charles Roper's property as mentioned in the March 3, 1837 letter of L. M. Southerland? Joe is Joseph W. Roper, who I will now discuss. Joseph W. Roper makes an appearance in the 1830 Dinwiddie County, VA census, living next to a David Roper: Joseph W. Roper 0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0 David Roper 1-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****1-1-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Joseph W. Roper is shown as age 20-29. There is a female age 50-60 in the household. (As far as the identity of the David Roper who is shown in the census, I will defer to the excellent postings on by William Alexander Roper, Jr. concerning David W. Roper (b. abt 1795-1800- Dinwiddie, VA, d. 11 Feb 1840- Williamson Co., TN, starting with his first thread on January 16, 2013. I agree with Bill that David Roper is the likely son of Joel Roper, son of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn.) Joseph W. Roper was probably residing with his mother Nancy, a widow, who appears in the 1810 and 1820 Dinwiddie County census records as the head of a household: 1810 Dinwiddie County, VA Nancy Roper 1-0-1-0-0*****1-0-0-1-0 Nancy Roper is shown as age 26-44. There is one male <10, one male 16-25, and one female <10. The male <10 could be Joseph W. Roper. 1820 Dinwiddie County, VA Nancy Roper 0-0-1-0-0-0*****0-0-1-1-0 Nancy Roper is shown as age 26-44. There is one male age 10-15, and one female age 16-25. The one male could be Joseph W. Roper. Nancy Roper is probably the "Miss Whitehead", shown as the wife of Joseph Roper, son of Charles Roper and Elizabeth, although I have no extant document verifying this fact and my opinion is based solely on circumstantial evidence. Joseph W. Roper actually makes his first appearance in the "Dinwiddie County, VA- Official Website- Land Tax Books" in the year 1824, under the Tax Book heading of 1824B. He is listed in an entry above Elizabeth Roper. Joseph W. Roper is shown owning 120 acres on Butterwood Road. As stated in the Tax Book, he inherited the acreage "from the Estate of Charles Roper by Will". Elizabeth Roper is shown in the same record as the owner of two parcels, one of 254 acres and the other of 46 Ÿ acres, all on Butterwood Road. She also inherited her acreage "from the Estate of Charles Roper by Will", as indicated by the word "ditto". Charles Roper apparently died between 1823 and 1824. In the same Land Tax Books, Charles is shown in 1823, the year before his death, as owning two parcels, one of 374 acres and the other of 46 Ÿ acres, all on Butterwood Road. There are yearly entries in the Land Tax Books from 1823-1836 for both Joseph W. Roper and Elizabeth Roper, with each of them owning the same acreage they did in 1824. However, Joseph W. Roper is shown having a fee interest in his land and Elizabeth Roper is shown having a life estate in her land. Then, in 1837, the entries read generally as follows: Roper, Joseph W. 120 acres on Butterwood Road Roper, Charles Est 254 acres on ditto 46 Ÿ acres on ditto Obviously, Elizabeth Roper has died and her life estate property has reverted to Charles Roper's Estate for distribution through probate. In 1838, only the name Joseph W. Roper appears in the Land Tax Books. He is shown owning 420 œ acres on Butterwood Road in Dinwiddie. Thus, the letter mentioned above about "cousin Joe" buying the property of Mrs. Charles Roper obviously refers to Joseph W. Roper. Joseph W. Roper appears in subsequent Dinwiddie County census records, until his death on July 10, 1855, when he was honored in the local paper as local Methodist Minister. I will not discuss these records in detail because William Alexander Roper, Jr. has already done so. So who was the father of Joseph W. Roper? There appears to be only one good candidate. Charles and Elizabeth Roper had two sons: Joseph Roper and Goodwyn Roper. Goodwyn died in his youth, apparently having never married, as indicated in the Moore Family Bible. This leaves Joseph Roper as the only likely candidate to be the father of Joseph W. Roper. I cannot find an extant document showing that Joseph Roper, the father, ever resided in Dinwiddie. I cannot find him in any of the Dinwiddie County Tax Lists from 1797-1812. It is possible that Joseph Roper never owned taxable land and, therefore, does not show up in the tax lists. The "population" census records for Dinwiddie County no longer exist prior to 1810. Nancy Roper herself appears in the 1810 and 1820 Dinwiddie census records, but she is never shown as having taxable real property in the Land Tax Books, which would indicate that Joseph himself did not own land before he died. Many other Ropers, including Charles Roper, Joel Roper's Estate, Polly Roper, Rebecca Roper, Michael Roper, Ann Roper, and Burwell Roper, do appear in the 1820 and other Land Tax Books, but not Nancy Roper. Even without a record that shows Joseph resided in Dinwiddie County, there is circumstantial evidence to indicate he was the probable father of Joseph W. Roper. First, there is the name Joseph W. Roper. It would be natural for Joseph, son of Charles and Elizabeth, to name his son Joseph. Also, the middle initial "W" could indicate that Joseph W. Roper's middle name was Whitehead. Secondary sources suggest Joseph W. Roper was Joseph Whitehead Roper, but I cannot find a document evidencing this. Second, Joseph W. Roper inherited from the estate of Charles Roper. Inheritances for the most part go to the children or grandchildren. Charles and Elizabeth had a number of daughters and they probably inherited from the Estate of Charles Roper. Joseph W. Roper would typically have received the share of the estate that would have gone to his father, had he been living, and with that share, perhaps Joseph W. Roper bought out the interest of the other heirs to the property on which Elizabeth had a life estate. With the Land Tax records now available online on both Charles Roper, Sr., and Charles Roper, Jr., perhaps some other issues can now be addressed. For instance, I recently posted an article on Joseph Roper (b. abt 1775-82) ,of Lincoln County, TN, suggesting that he might be an additional son of John Roper of Pendleton District, SC. It now appears highly unlikely that Joseph Roper of Lincoln County, TN could be the same Joseph Roper of Dinwiddie, VA. They have different wives and different children. Also, it is possible that Charles Roper, Jr. made a quick appearance in Rutherford County, NC to act as a bondsman for the marriage of David Roper and Sarah France on February 25, 1788. However, it is not likely that Charles Roper, Jr., who is shown living on 330 acres in Dinwiddie County from 1787 until he died and who specifically is shown as owning 330 acres of land in the Dinwiddie 1790 Land Tax records, would also appear in the 1790 Rutherford County, NC census as the head of a household. Based on the Dinwiddie Land Tax records, it is more likely that Charles Roper, Jr. never left Dinwiddie County, VA. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>