This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I am a little baffled at the introductory sentence of your otherwise very thoughtful post as well as your conclusion that John ROPER, of Edgefield, is the son of David ROPER, of Edgefield, SC. You state "I agree that John Roper of Edgefield County, SC is the son of David Roper of Edgefield County, SC." But that really was NOT the central premise of my previous post. Rather, the central premise of my post was that John ROPER, of Pendleton, SC, was the son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA), of Brunswick. Instead of arguing that John ROPER, of Edgefield, was the same John ROPER found in Pendleton, SC, I rather specifically distinguished that it might be otherwise and gave John ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, rather superficial treatment precisely because I was focused on John ROPER, of Pendleton. In distinguishing the John ROPER, of Pendleton, from the John ROPER, of Edgefield, I noted: "This is admittedly a speculative explanation as to the differences in the composition of the household of John ROPER, of Pendleton, as compared to John ROPER, of Edgefield." I also added: "In my view, the 1810 Census record is somewhat ambiguous as to whether it reflects a younger or an older John ROPER." I added a closing segment about John ROPER, of Edgefield, beginning: "In my view, the case for John ROPER (b abt 1756-66) being David ROPER's son is far stronger than the case that the John ROPER found in Edgefield, SC, in 1820 is one and the same John ROPER." * * * Thus, to begin your post by agreeing with me that John ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, is David ROPER's son is NO AGREEMENT AT ALL, as this was, in my view, the speculative aspect of my post. Later, you state "John Roper's birth in South Carolina presents a number of problems for your theory that this John Roper is the same John Roper seen in the Pendleton District census of 1800." But I really didn't even go back to give a fresh look to Edgefield, SC, data precisely because whether John ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, was the SAME John ROPER found in Pendleton wasn't central to my post or my premise. My post was about whether John ROPER, of Pendleton, SC, was David ROPER's son. So the birth of John ROPER, of Edgefield, in South Carolina, presents NO IMPEDIMENT AT ALL to my premise, but simply supports an argument that this is a DIFFERENT John ROPER than that shown in the Pendleton enumeration and that John ROPER, of Edgefield, is NOT David ROPER's son. I think you have made a reasonably persuasive case that John ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, is a DIFFERENT John ROPER than the John ROPER, of Pendleton. But I FAIL TO SEE how you have made ANY CASE for this John ROPER being the son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA). Most of what you posted seems to suggest OTHERWISE, so you are certainly NOT agreeing with me in such a conclusion. Your post was also almost completely UNRESPONSIVE to the case I laid out for John ROPER, of Pendleton, SC, being David ROPER's son, other than stating that you disagreed with this conclusion. You state in your post: "Second, John Roper seen in the 1800 Pendleton District census had two probable sons who were born in North Carolina. One of those sons, John Roper, is shown in the 1850 Wright County, MO census as age 62 and born in North Carolina. This means he was born about 1788 in North Carolina. David Roper of Dinwiddie, VA, to my knowledge, was never in North Carolina and was probably in Edgefield County, SC by that time." But here you are confusing David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA) and John ROPER. We KNOW that David ROPER remained in Brunswick as late as 1788, because he appears within the Personal Property Tax lists that year. See my post: "ROPERs Shown in the 1788 Personal Property Tax Lists for Brunswick, VA" (19 Aug 2014 12:54PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1939.11/mb.ashx But we also have reason to suspect that one of David ROPER's sons may have been already 21 (b bef 1763) as early as 1783 and that another son was probably then already age 16 to 18 (b abt 1763-7). See: "ROPERs Shown in the 1783 Personal Property Tax Lists for Brunswick, VA" (19 Aug 2014 12:30PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1939.9/mb.ashx We KNOW that David ROPER's son Benjamin ROPER was born about 1767. We also KNOW that David ROPER's sons seemed to SETTLE ELSEWHERE after turning age 21, since they are mostly NOT SHOWN by name as taxpayers within the Brunswick Personal Property Tax Lists. It is FAR MORE LIKELY that David ROPER's other sons are clustered in the 1760s and 1770s rather than the 1780s. As far as I can tell only ONE son -- Daniel ROPER -- was born in the 1780s. So, NO, David ROPER was NOT in Edgefield, SC, in 1788. He was in Brunswick, VA, as shown in the Tax Lists. By contrast, David ROPER's son John ROPER seems NOT TO HAVE BEEN IN Briunswick in 1788 and therefore could have been ANYWHERE ELSE. But since he does NOT seem to appear in the Tax Lists, we are left with the problem that there seems to be precisely ONE obvious candidate to be this John ROPER: John ROPER, of Pendleton. You again make this same mistake in stating: "Also, James Roper, another probable son of John Roper of Pendleton District, SC, is shown in the 1850 census as age 64, born in North Carolina. This means he was born about 1786 in North Carolina. Again, to my knowledge, David Roper of Dinwiddie never was in North Carolina." But the question is NOT whether David ROPER, was in North Carolina. The question is whether John ROPER was in North Carolina previous to his arrival in Pendleton. My assertion is that John ROPER is David ROPER's son and the further suggestion is that James ROPER was John ROPER's son and David ROPER's grandson. But quite separate from the confusion between David and John, I find it incredible for you to state that there is no evidence that David ROPER, of Brunswick, VA, was ever in North Carolina. To the contrary what we KNOW at this time based upon Personal Property Tax Lists examined is that David ROPER WAS in Brunswick, VA, in 1788, but that he was NO LONGER in Brunswick by 1798. We also KNOW that there were TWO David ROPERs in Rutherford, NC, by 1791 (it seems that the 1790 Census was actaully based upon a 1791 canvass in Rutherford). We believe that one of these two David ROPERs was the Revolutionary War Veteran who later migrated to Pulaski, KY. The OTHER David ROPER -- Rev. David ROPER -- is MOST LIKELY either David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA) or this David ROPER's SON. I had previously been more inclined to believe that Rev. David ROPER was David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA). But I am now more inclined to believe that this was the younger David ROPER, who still may have been older than the Revolutionary War veteran. Still another possiblity is that BOTH of these David ROPERs are from Brunswick and that the Revolutionary War Veteran was living in someone else's household, possibly even that of Meredith ROPER. Whether one or the other of the David ROPER's of Brunswick is Rev. David ROPER is something that will be clearer when someone obtains and examines the 1789, 1790 and 1791 Personal Property Tax lists. The 1782, 1784, 1785 and 1786 Tax Lists for Brunswick will also help. Methodist Church archives may also be helpful in understanding the correct identity of Rev. David ROPER. I AGREE with your conclusion: "Thus, I think it is more likely that the John M. Roper of Edgefield County, SC was a much younger John Roper that the John Roper born abt 1756-66. John M. Roper is more likely to have been born about 1782 in South Carolina, the same date as the birth of his wife Sophia Clackler." Thus, I believe you have made out a very nice case that John M. ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, is a DIFFERENT John ROPER from that previously found in Pendleton, SC, and that John M. ROPER is NOT David ROPER's son. * * * You ask for some basis as to ascribing Meredith ROPER as only having a 3% chance of being John ROPER's father. The answer to that is quite easy. THERE IS SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE THAT MEREDITH ROPER HAS A SON NAMED JOHN ROPER. So the ONLY basis for such an ascription is to make the ex ante ASSUMPTION that Meredith ROPER had a son of this name and then thereafter to further conclude that Meredith ROPER's son was also the same John ROPER shown in the Pendleton enumeration. By contrast, we KNOW that David ROPER had a son named John. We KNOW that this son was still living in 1805. We have REASON TO BELIEVE that David ROPER's son would be in the age range given. We KNOW that David ROPER's son had migrated from Brunswick and is found in the company of other members of Charles ROPER's family in Rutherford. I wouldn't even give Meredith a 3% chance but for his age. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>