This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Clacker Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923.2.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: In your post above, you stated "Hartwell Roper appears to actually be Freeman Hartwell Roper. Freeman Roper went by F. H. Roper in his 1880 Edgefield County, SC census." I know for no basis to ascribe that Hartwell ROPER and Freeman H. ROPER were the SAME person and the evidence shows otherwise. I previously discussed Freeman H. ROPER in my post: "Genealogical Notes on Freeman H. ROPER of Edgefield, SC" (4 Jul 2002 4:13PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/498.1/mb.ashx * * * Hartwell ROPER is shown to have married Margaret GETZEN on 31 Oct 1839 in Edgefield, SC. Freeman H. ROPER is shown to have married Charlesy Ann LIMBECKER on 29 Dec 1842 in Edgefield, SC. * * * 1840 CENSUS As I have previously noted, in 1840 Hartwell ROPER is enumerated as a head of household in Edgefield: Hartwell ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1840] [Image 55 of 172 at Ancestry.com] This Hartwell ROPER is age 30 to 39 (b abt 1801-10). The elder man, shown to be age 70 to 79, is almost certainly Hartwell ROPER's FATHER, Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC). See: "Distinguishing the Two Benjamin ROPERs Found in Early Edgefield, SC, Records" (27 Mar 2014 3:46PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1883/mb.ashx * Sophia ROPER is shown on the very same Census page. Sophia ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1840] [Image 55 of 172 at Ancestry.com] Sophia ROPER is also shown to have a male age 30 to 39 (b abt 1801-10) residing within her household. This seems likely to be Freeman H. ROPER. * * * 1850 CENSUS In 1850, Hartwell ROPER, age 50 (b abt 1800 - SC) is enumerated again residing in Edgefield, SC. He is living alone. [Image 244 of 358 at Ancestry.com] * Freeman ROPER, age 41 (b abt 1809 - SC), is enumerated within Edgefield, SC, in 1850, with Sophia ROPER, age 68 (b abt 1782 - SC) residing in her household. [Images 162-3 of 358 at Ancestry.com] See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8QF-LPK : accessed 22 Aug 2014), Freeman Roper Or Rosser, Edgefield county, part of, Edgefield, South Carolina, United States; citing family 1255, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * * 1860 CENSUS In 1860, Hartwell ROPER, age 56 (b abt 1804 - SC), is enumerated residing in Edgefield, SC, by himself. [Ancestry Image 174 of 225] * F.H. ROPER, age 50 (b abt 1810 - SC), is also enumerated residing in Edgefield, SC, with C.A. ROPER, age 35. [Ancestry Image 212 of 225] See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZTC-SG3 : accessed 22 Aug 2014), F H Roper, Edgefield District, Edgefield, South Carolina, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 212, household ID 1615, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 805219. * * * DEATH OF HARTWELL ROPER Hartwell ROPER is shown by secondary sources to have died on 16 Jun 1769 in Edgefield County, SC. While I am unaware of the priamry authority for that specific date, it appears to be credible and is at least consistent with the appearance of Hartwell ROPER [shown as "Hartway Roper"] within the 1870 Federal Mortality Schedule as having died in Jun 1869 of heart disease. * * * 1870 CENSUS Freeman H. ROPER, age 59 (b abt 1811 - SC), is enumerated with his children residing in Butler, Edgefield County, SC. [Ancestry Image 9 of 51] * * * 1880 CENSUS As you have noted, Freeman H. ROPER, age 70 (b abt 1810 - SC), is again enumerated in Edgefield, SC, in 1880, as "F.H. Roper". [Ancestry Image 65 of 73] See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M6SZ-ZJF : accessed 22 Aug 2014), F H Roper, Meriwether, Edgefield, South Carolina, United States; citing sheet 251A, NARA microfilm publication T9. * * * * * The death records of several of Freeman ROPER's children further confirm the marriage of Freeman H. ROPER and Charlesy Ann LIMBECKER. Mary A. Roper SWEARINGTON (b Dec 1855 - Edgefield, SC, d 20 May 1933 - Aiken, SC) Sallie E. Roper HARDISTY (b 27 Feb 1857 - Edgefield, SC, d 15 Feb 1929 - Aiken, SC) James H. P. ROPER (b 01 Jun 1863 - Edgefield, SC, d 14 Dec 1925 - Aiken, SC) See: "South Carolina Deaths, 1915-1943," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N9KW-TD6 : accessed 22 Aug 2014), Mary A. Roper Swearingen, 20 May 1933; citing Schultz, Aiken, South Carolina, cn 13753, Department of Archives and History, State Records Center, Columbia; FHL microfilm 1943795. "South Carolina Deaths, 1915-1943," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N9N2-7LK : accessed 22 Aug 2014), Jas. H. P. Roper, 14 Dec 1925; citing N. Augusta, Aiken, South Carolina, cn 19891, Department of Archives and History, State Records Center, Columbia; FHL microfilm 1913658. "South Carolina Deaths, 1915-1943," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N9KG-TNB : accessed 22 Aug 2014), Sallie E. Roper Hardisty, 15 Feb 1929; citing North Augusta, Aiken, South Carolina, fn 2180, Department of Archives and History, State Records Center, Columbia; FHL microfilm 1913704. * * * * * I would therefore submit the following arguments contra to your contention that Freeman ROPER and Hartwell ROPER were the SAME person. 1. The 1840 Census data is consistent with the presence of Freeman ROPER within Sophia ROPER's hosuehold while Hartwell ROPER was residing with his father in a separate household. 2. I do NOT believe that Freeman was a bigamist and seriously doubt that Freeman would have married Margaret GETZEN while still married Charlesy Ann LIMBECKER. 3. The 1850 Census records are consistent with the presence of distinct individuals named Hartwell ROPER and Freeman ROPER, each living in Edgefield, SC. 4. The 1860 Census records are consistent with the presence of distinct individuals named Hartwell ROPER and F.H. ROPER, each living in Edgefield, SC. 5. The 1870 Census records are consistent with the continued presence of Freeman H. ROPER after the documented death of Hartwell ROPER of heart disease in June 1869. 6. The 1880 Census records are consistent with the continued presence of F. H. ROPER after the documented death of Hartwell ROPER of heart disease in June 1869. * * * I believe that I have some other notes that also document the separate existence of separate individuals and show that these are NOT the same person. I will endeavor to find and transcribe those notes in a future post. * * * * * In my view, the primary data supports a conclusion that Hartwell ROPER was born abt 1800-4 and that Hartwell ROPER was a son of Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC). Similarly, the primary data supports a conclusion that Freeman H. ROPER was born abt 1809-11 and that Freeman H. ROPER was probably a John ROPER (d 24 Aug 1820), of Edgefield, SC. * * * * * REJECTION OF THE FICTIONALIST ACCOUNTS The ROPER Family History Fictionalists have published a number of false accounts about Freeman H. ROPER. One of these is the bizarre story that Freeman ROPER was born OUT OF WEDLOCK to Sophia Clacker ROPER on 26 Dec 1824, MORE THAN FOUR YEARS AFTER JOHN ROPER's DEATH. Similarly, the Fictionalists have ascribed John ROPER (d 24 Aug 1820), of Edgefield, SC, as a son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - VA). While one can possibly argue that John ROPER might have been a son solely based upon PROXIMITY, the Fictionalists have published this as a FACT when there seem to be little factual basis for such an ascription. Basically, ANYONE who has any integrity needs to discontinue any reliance upon these dishonest secondary accounts and to REFRAIN from any further republication of the UNSOURCED constructions. Discussion about possibilities is one thing. Publication of these ascriptions as FACT is quite another. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>