This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1936.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It is very difficult to separate all of the relationships between the Roper family and the Keith family in Pendleton District, South Carolina in the 1800s. There appear to be a number of intermarriages between these two families. Based on circumstantial evidence,it is likely that Jane Roper, b abt 1796, SC, who married Martin Keith, b. 1792, was the daughter of Charles Roper b. bef 1764, NC, who was residing in Pendleton District, SC in 1800. I say based on circumstantial evidence because I have found neither a document giving Jane Keith's maiden name as Roper nor a document such as a probate record that lists her as a daughter of Charles. I believe the "Joel Keith, b. 1797, m. Jane Roper, moved to Jefferson Co., AL, via Ga", is actually Joel M. Keith, b. abt 1799, who married Mary Roper. If you are in fact referring to Joel M. Keith and Mary Roper, then I am not sure who Mary Roper's father was. I'm inclined to think her father was Charles Roper also. There is a marriage record showing that Joel Keith married a Mary Roper. The research on this matter is made difficult by the tendency of secondary sources to confuse Martin Roper with Joel M. Roper. Some consider these two people to be the same person, and name him Joel Martin Roper, and then state that his wife was Mary Jane Roper. Before discussing these two possible Roper daughters, Jane and Mary, I'm going to list some of the pertinent Pendleton District census records showing the close connection between the Roper families and the Keith families. Charles Roper first appears in 1800 Pendleton District, SC census on page 16 of the records of Ancestry.com: Charles Roper 2-1-0-0-1*****4-2-0-1-0*****0-0 Charles Roper is shown as age 45 . His presumed wife is 26-44. There are two males <10 and one male 10-15. There are four females <10 and two females 10-15, a total of 6 daughters. There are no slaves. Benjamin Roper appears in the 1800 Pendleton District, SC census on the following page 17: Benjamin Roper 1-0-0-1-0*****0-0-1-0-0 Benjamin is shown as age 26-44, with a wife age 16-25, and one son <10. Charles Roper next appears in the 1810 Pendleton District, SC, census, a few properties away from Abs Roper, on page 20: Chas Roper 1-1-0-0-1*****2-2-1-0-1*****0-0 Abs Roper 2-0-0-1-0*****0-0-1-0-0*****0-0 Charles again is shown as age 45 , with a wife 45 . There is one male <10, and one male10-15. There are still five daughters left in the household, two <10, two between 10-15, and one 16-25. Abs Roper is considered by some secondary sources to be one of the sons of Charles Roper. Abs, who most secondary sources identify as Absalom, is shown as age 26-45. His age is fairly consistent with being the male age 10-15 in Charles Roper's 1810 census, although he does miss by one year. Abs wife is shown as 16-25, so Abs is probably closer to being in the same age range. Benjamin Roper appears on page 16 of the 1810 Pendleton District, SC census: Benjamin Roper 4-0-0-1-0*****3-0-0-1-0 Benjamin Roper is shown as age 26-44, and his wife is shown as age 26-44. There are four males <10 and three females <10. On the same page of the 1810 Pendleton census, clustered around Charles Roper and Abs Roper, you will find John Keith, Duncan Keith, John Keith, George Keith, and Cornelius Keith. Charles Roper next appears in the 1820 Pendleton District, SC census on page 41, a few houses from Aaron Roper: Charles Roper 0-0-0-2-0-1*****0-0-0-1-1-1 Aaron Roper 2-2-0-0-1-0*****3-0-0-1-0-3 Charles and his wife are again shown as age 45 . There are 2 males age 16-25 and one female age 26-44. Notice that there is only one daughter left in the household of Charles Roper. The other five have either married or died. Also, a Cornelius Keith can be seen on the previous page of the 1820 census of Charles Roper. However, the other Keith family members are not to be seen. Aaron Roper, who is usually identified by secondary sources as one of the sons of Charles, is shown in the 1820 census as age 16-44, with a wife age 26-45, and seven children. Benjamin Roper can be seen on page 19 of the 1820 Pendleton District, SC census: Benjamin Roper 2-0-1-3-0-1*****2-2-1-0-1 Benjamin is 45 , with a wife 45 . There are 2 males <10, one male 16-18, and three males 16-25. There are two females <10, two females 10-15, and one female 16-25. Charles Roper and his wife may appear in the 1830 Pickens County, SC census in the family of Reuben Roper: Reuben Roper 1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0*****0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0 Reuben Roper is shown as age 20-29, with a wife 15-19. There is one male <5. There is a male age 70-79 and a female age 70-79. The older male and female could be Charles Roper and his wife. Reuben Roper is considered by secondary sources to be a son of Charles Roper. Also, secondary sources state that he married Cynthia Keith. On the same census page as Reuben Roper, you will find the following: Joel Keith 1-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Lemuel Keith 2-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****1-0-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 James Keith 2-2-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-1-1-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 On the following page, you will find Cornelius Keith, age 40-49, living next to Benjamin Roper, age 40-49; Meredith Roper, age 30-39; John H. Roper, age 20-29: William Keith, age 60-69; and Jacob Roper, age 20-29. Now that we have shown a close family connection between the Roper and Keith families, let's move on to discuss Martin Keith and Joel Keith. A Martin Keith is first seen by name only in an abstract of the 1830 Murray County, GA census records. A Martin Keith can be found next in the 1840 District 824, Murray County, GA census: Martin Keith 1-2-0-2-2-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0*****1-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 Martin is shown as age 40-39, and his wife is age 40-49. There are a number of male children and one female <5. Martin Keith can next be found an abstract of the 1850 Murray County, GA census on usgenweb archives on sheet number 267B(I could not find the census records on Ancestry.com): Martin Keith 58M Virginia Jane Keith 54F South Carolina John B. Keith 21M Georgia Oliver D. Keith 17M Georgia Martha Keith 16F Georgia Martin L. Keith 14M Georgia We learn from this that Martin and his family were in Georgia by at least 1829, since they had a son John B. Keith born in that year. There are a number of other Keith householders in the1850 Murray County, GA census: R. R. Keith, age 27; Charles N. Keith, age 22; Samuel Keith, age 25; and John B. Keith. These are all sons of Martin Keith, as are seen in the abstract of the Division of Martin Keith's estate (I have not seen the original): "Georgia Murray County By virtue of an order of this Court of Ordinary of said county to us directed and hereto approved to make a fair division of the real estate of Martin Keith late of said County in the hand of Samuel A. Keith his administrator among his lawful distributors we proceeded in the following manner to execute said order after first being duly sworn. The distributors being eight in number we have divided the land in eight equal parts as follows, First to Samuel A. Keith fifty four acres and one half off the east end of lot land No. One hundred and twenty six (126) and twenty five acres on the North Side of lot No. ninety two (92) in the Ninth District and 3 Section of said County valued at Eight Hundred and Seventy five dollars. Second, to O.D. Keith forty eight and one fourth acres on the west side of that part set off to Samuel A. Keith on lot of land No. one hundred and twenty six and thirty nine acres on the South Side that part of Samuel A. Keith of l! ot of land No. Ninety two all in the Ninth District and 3 Section of said county. Third, To Charles W. Keith thirty three and one fourth acres on the west side of that part set off to O.D. Keith of lot of land No. one hundred and twenty six (126) and also forty nine (49) acres on the north side of that O.D. Keith was lot of land No. ninety two all in ninth (9) District and 3rd Section of said county. Fourth, to Snora Keith as the guardian of the heirs of John B. Keith deceased thirty three and one fourth acres in the west side of that part set off to C.W. Keith of lot of land No. one hundred and twenty six (126) and also thirty nine acres on the south side of lot of land No. Ninety two (92) all in the ninth district and third section of said county it being the balance of the observed normal lots. Fifth to Mary A. Keith as the guardian of the heirs of Reuben R. Keith deceased for the benefit of all the heirs of Reuben R. Keith deceased that twenty five acres on the North ! Side of lot of land No. eighty seven and thirty five acres on the Nort h Side of lot of land No. eight eight all in the ninth district and 3rd section of said county. Sixth, to William Bates, George W. McClure and Martin L. Keith we have set apart all the balance of lots of land No.s 87 & 88 in the ninth (9th) District 13 Section of said county not set apart to Mary A. Keith as the guardian of the heirs of R.R. Keith deceased each heirs part so set apart valued at eight hundred and seventy five dollars. Given under our hands and seals this 5th day of May 1868.Commissioners John AdairM.W. HarrisJ.D.W. McDonaldT.R. Bates". As you will see, there are a number of sons listed as heirs of Martin Keith. Of particular interest are the sons Reuben R. Keith and Charles W. Keith. Reuben Keith appears in the 1850 Murray County, GA census as follows: R. R. Keith 27M South Carolina Mary Keith 22F Georgia Lucinda J Keith 2F Georgia Clinton C. Keith 2/12 M Georgia In later census records, he will appear as Reuben R. Keith. Secondary sources identify him also as Reuben Roper Keith, although I can find no extant document showing the middle name to be Roper. His headstone shows R. R. Keith. As seen above, Reuben Roper of Pendenton District, SC was mentioned by me as a probable son of Charles Roper. It would have been natural for Jane Keith, wife of Martin Keith, if she was Jane Roper, to name a son after a brother named Reuben Roper. Martin Keith and Jane also name a son Charles. Again, it would have been natural for Jane Keith, if she was Jane Roper, to name a son after her father. Jane Keith is last seen in the 1870 Murray County, GA census residing in the household of her son Martin L. Keith. She is shown as age 73, which would give her a birth in 1897. Now let's discuss Joel M. Keith and his wife Mary Roper. There is an abstract of a marriage record on Ancestry.com which shows that a Joel M. Keith, born 1799, married a Mary Roper. Joel M. Keith first appears in the 1830 Pickens County, SC census: Joel Keith 1-0-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Joel is shown as age 30-39, and his wife is age 20-29. There is another male age 20-29. On the same page of the census, one can see Reuben Roper, age 20-29, and John Roper, age 20-29. Joel M. Keith next appears in the 1840 Pickens County, SC census: Joel M. Keith 3-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Joel M. Keith is shown as age 40-49 and his wife is shown as age 30-39. There are three males <5, and one male 10-14. There is one female age 10-14. Joel M. Keith next appears in the 1850 Forsyth County, GA census: Joel M. Keith 51M SC Mary Keith 45F SC Absolem B. Keith 13M SC Nancy A. Keith 8F GA Sarah C. Keith 6F GA Joel M. Keith 3M GA\ Now, the reason I think that your "Joel Keith, b. 1797, m. Jane Roper, moved to Jefferson Co., Al, via GA" is the same person as this Joel M. Keith, who married Mary Roper, is because both of his sons, Joel M. Keith, shown here as age 3, and Absolem B. Keith, shown here as age 13, did in fact move to Jefferson County, Alabama. Joel M. Keith, the father, apparently died in Forsyth, GA. Absolem Keith appears in the 1870 Cleburne, AL census as Solomon Keith, age 33, born in SC. Absolem Keith next appears in the 1880 Jefferson County, Al census as A. B. Keith. He is shown in a census abstract of Alabama confederate soldiers as Absolem Bly Keith, residing in Jefferson County, AL in 1907, born on May 18, 1833, in Pumkintown, Pickens, SC. Joel M. Keith, born 1847 in Forsyth County, GA first appears in the 1870 Jefferson County, AL census as J.M. Keith, age 23, born in GA, married to A. Keith. He will also appear in the 1900 Woodlawn, Jefferson County, Al census as Joel Keith, age 52, born in Georgia, with both parents born in South Carolina. His wife is Amanda Keith, age 53. I am still not sure of the parentage of Mary Roper. The name of her son Absolem Bly Keith should give us a clue. Abs Roper shown in the 1810 Pendleton District census had only one female in the household who was age 16-25, who couldn't be Mary Keith born in about 1805. Perhaps Abs was her brother, in which case Charles Roper might be the likely father. But then perhaps Benjamin Roper was her father. Both Charles and Benjamin appear to have daughters in the 1810 and 1820 Pendleton census records of an age that could be Mary. The following abstract of the Probate of Benjamin Roper, which was included in the article dated June 11, 2014 by William Alexander Roper, Jr. titled "Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-74) of Pendleton and Pickens, SC" has some interest:: "Benjamin Roper, estate of, Box 3, #26. Probate Judge Office. Est. admr. 8 Aug 1831 by Wm. Sutherland, Wm. L. Keith who are bound unto James H. Hendy, Ord. in the sum of $400. Left a widow and 12 children. Heirs mentioned on 21 Nov 1831: John H., Jacob, Aaron, Sarah Roper, Rachel Ward, J. M. Keith, Keziah Roper, widow Nancy, Benjamin Roper decd, Susana Roper who married Moses Hendrick. On 18 Oct 1836 Wm. Sutherland wanted Mr. Dendy Ord. to pay Benj. Roper the part due John Byrus the husband of Cazzy Roper." First, I and William Alexander Roper, Jr. have never seen the original of this abstract. So we don't know how accurate it is. The fact that J. M. Keith is mentioned as one of the heirs would indicate that his wife, presumably Benjamin's daughter, was already dead. Both Jane Keith and Mary Keith were both still living into the 1850s. Thus, the J. M. Keith is probably not the husband of Mary Keith However, if this abstract is accurate, there does not appear to be a daughter listed as an heir who is named Jane Keith or Mary Keith. This would then rule out Benjamin as the father, leaving Charles Roper as the likely candidate to be the father of both Jane Keith and Mary Keith. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>