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Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Butler, Bracken, Whitehead Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1938/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank BATCHELOR and I have recently been analyzing and discussing the family of Joseph and Martha ROPER, of Lincoln, Tennessee, within my prevoius thread about John ROPER, of Pendleton, SC: "John ROPER (b abt 1756-66), of Pendleton, SC" (8 Jun 2014 1:51AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923/mb.ashx In this additional post within the aforementioned thread, I introduce the possibility that the Joseph ROPER enumerated in the 1800 Census in Pendleton, SC, might be another son of this John ROPER: "Children of John ROPER (b abt 1756-66), of Pendleton, SC" (9 Jun 2014 11:24AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923.1/mb.ashx Frank then carried forward that argument showing that Joseph ROPER, of Lincoln, TN, might be the SAME Joseph ROPER shown in Pendleton, SC, in 1800: "Re: Children of John ROPER (b abt 1756-66), of Pendleton, SC" (27 Jun 2014 4:18PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923.1.1/mb.ashx * * Several other posts within that thread also bear on the question of whether Joseph ROPER, of Pendleton, SC, and Joseph ROPER, of Lincoln, TN, are one and the same. I have gone back and forth as to the correct disposition of this question and within this post am again more inclined to believe that these were DIFFERENT Joseph ROPERs for reasons more fully explained herein. I thought that this couple, to whom are ascribed a rather large branch of the ROPER family deserved a dedicated thread which might be somewhat more conspicuous as to its subject. I would certainly encourage those with an interest in this ROPER family to carefully read each of the posts within the aforementioned thread, particularly as to the relationships of the other likely children of John ROPER, of Pendleton. * * * 1820 CENSUS With a fresh look at Joseph and Martha ROPER, it seemed to me that we ought to BEGIN with the data about which we have the greatest confidence and then build from that foundation, rather than starting with the speculative. Joseph ROPER, of Lincoln, TN, first appears within the 1820 Census enumeration, the first Census of Tennessee which survives: Joseph ROPER: 3 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Lincoln, TN 1820] (Image 18 of 46 for Lincoln, TN, at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1820 Census data) This Joseph ROPER is shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1776) and the eldest female is also shown to be age 45 or more. There are a total of six children residing in Joseph ROPER's household, five boys and one girl. Three of the males and the oen female are shown to be under ten years of age (b abt 1811-20). Two of the boys are shown to be age 10 to 15 (b abt 1805-10). This is consistent with this couple marrying sometime about 1805, IF the children are actually those of Joseph and Martha. * * Separately, I want to expressly call attention to the presence of two members of the BUTLER family on the bottom page (same Census image): Joel BUTLER and Benjamin BUTLER, each apparently age 26-44. I mention these because Charles ROPER, Jr., of Dinwiddie, VA, was married to an Elizabeth BUTLER and Charles ROPER also ahd a younger brother named "Joel". I have no specific reason to believe that Joel BUTLER is related to Elizabeth Butler ROPER, but I found the appearance of this name on the adjacent page to be interesting. On the previous page is the name Smith ABNERNETHY (ABERNATHY) as two WALKERs. There are also two STEVENSONs on this page. * * * 1830 CENSUS In 1830, Joseph ROPER is GONE from the Lincon, TN, Census. Instead, there appears a Martha ROPER: Martha ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- NO SLAVES [Lincoln, TN, 1830] (Image 161 of 206 for Lincoln, TN, at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1830 Census data) Martha ROPER is shown to be age 60 to 69 in 1830 (b abt 1761-70). There are by then only FOUR younger males and one younger female within this ROPER household. Two of the males are under age twenty, one age 10 to 14 (b abt 1816-20) and the other age 15 to 19 (b abt 1811-15). There are also two males age 20 to 29 (b abt 1801-20). The sole young female in this household is shown to be age 10 to 14 (b abt 1816-20). The ages, genders, and counts of these children are completely CONSISTENT with the Census record of Joseph ROPER in 1820 and Martha ROPER's age is consistent, as well. We can draw a reasonably strong inference that Martha ROPER is probably Joseph ROPER's widow and that the household composition remained much the same, with either the death or departure from this ROPER household of one young male born abt 1811-20. * * * 1840 CENSUS In 1840, Martha ROPER again appears in the U.S. Census residing in Lincoln, TN, however most of the younger generation seems to have departed: Martha ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- NO SLAVES [Lincoln, TN, 1840] (Image 173 of 204 for Lincoln, TN, at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1840 Census data) Martha ROPER is shown to be age 60 to 69 in 1840 (b abt 1771-80). * Appearing on the immediately following Census page is the household of Bracken ROPER: Bracken ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- NO SLAVES [Lincoln, TN, 1840] (Image 175 o 204 for Lincoln, TN, at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1840 Census data) This record reflects the presence of two males age 30 to 29 (b abt 1801-10) and one male age 20 to 29 (b abt 1811-20), as well as a female age 20 to 29 (b abt 1811-20) residing within Bracken ROPER's household. THERE ARE NO CHILDREN IN THIS HOUSEHOLD IN 1840. This record is exactly consistent with Martha ROPER's 1830 Census record and it appears that three of the males and the female have departed Martha ROPER's household and set up a separate household with Bracken ROPER as the nominal head. * * * By 1850, Martha ROPER can no longer be found in Lincoln, nor anywhere else in the United States as far as I can tell. However, the presence of two ROPER households in Lincoln at least suggest the identities of some of the younger members of Martha ROPER's 1830 household. Bracken ROPER, age 44 (b abt 1806 - NC), again appears within Lincoln, TN. Newly appearing by name for the very first time we also find Joshua ROPER, age 42 (b abt 1808 - TN). Less readily apparent is the location of the other young men found in Joseph ROPER's household in 1820, in Martha's household in 1830 and in Martha and Bracken's households in 1840. Bracken and Joshua are consistent in age with the two eldest males in Joseph ROPER's hosuehold in 1820, the two eldest males in Martha's household in 1830 and the two eldest males in Bracken's household in 1840. But the males born from 1810 to 1819 seem to have died or migrated elsewhere. * * * Martha ROPER, Brackin ROPER and Joseph ROPER are shown consecutively on an 1836 Tax List for Lincoln County, Tennessee. The record seems to show that Martha paid tax on two parcels, one of which was 210 acres and the other 75 acres. See: Ancestry.com. Tennessee, Early Tax List Records, 1783-1895 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013. This collection was indexed by Ancestry World Archives Project contributors. Original data: Early Tax Lists of Tennessee. Microfilm, 12 rolls. The Tennessee State Library and Archives, Nashville, Tennessee. * * * BRACKIN ROPER's YEAR OF BIRTH It should be further noted that Bracken ROPER's precise year of birth is subject to some disagreement as to the primary evidence. While Bracken is shown to be age 44 in the 1850 Census enumeration (b abt 1806 - NC), in 1860 he is shown to be only age 50 (b abt 1810 - NC). Then, Bracken ROPER's grave marker states that he was born on 31 Jan 1800 and that he died on 25 Sep 1866. Bracken is interred at the Cross Cemetery in Lincoln, TN. See: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=24087200 I am inclined to believe that the earlier Census reports were more reliable and that Bracken was MORE LIKELY to know his own age than his children were. Moreover, if Bracken was NOT older than the other children who appeared in his 1840 Census record, I am inclined to suspect that one of the other young men would have been named as head of household. Thus, I believe that Bracken was likely to be one of the two young men age 30 to 39 (b abt 1801-10). Thus, three Census records would seem to be in general agreement: b abt 1801-10 (age 30 to 39) [1840] b abt 1806 (age 44) [1850] b abt 1810 (age 50) [1860] * * * The subsequent reappearance of Joseph ROPER, age 47 (b abt 1813 - TN), in Lincoln, TN, in 1860 seems to possibly suggest the identity of one more of the younger men. Secondary sources show this Joseph ROPER to have been married first to Nancy MERRELL and secondly to Politha GATLIN. The 1860 Census record shown this household: Joseph ROPER, age 47, Male, Farmer, born Tenn. Politha ROPER, age 28, Female, born Alabama James ROPER, age 14, Male, born Tenn. Olla ROPER, age 12, Female, born Tenn. Mary ROPER, age 11, Female, born Tenn. Emily ROPER, age 9, Female, born Tenn. Eliza. ROPER, age 7, Female, born Tenn. Mary ROPER, age 6, Female, born Tenn. Edney ROPER, age 3, Female, born Tenn. Sarah ROPER, age 11/12, Female, born Tenn. [Census return dated 06 Jun 1860] * I have NOT FOUND the 1850 Census record for this Joseph ROPER. * * The assertion that Joseph ROPER married a Politha GATLIN is supported by the existence of a marriage record showing a marriage of Joseph ROPER to P. GATLIN in Limestone, AL, on 20 Oct 1853. See: "Alabama, Marriages, 1816-1957," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5Z7-T2H : accessed 15 Aug 2014), Joseph Roper and P. Gatlin, 20 Oct 1853; citing reference ; FHL microfilm 1035011. * * * In my view, the presence of Brackin ROPER and Joshua ROPER adjacent on the 1850 Census pages coupled with the adjacency of Bracken ROPER's Census record to that of Martha ROPER, when coupled with the close conformity of the ages, supports a very strong inference that Bracken and Joshua ROPER emerged from Martha ROPER's household. The earlier presence of Joseph ROPER (the younger) in the 1836 Lincoln tax lists, coupled with the later presence of Joseph ROPER in Lincoln, TN, and his close conformance in age with the male shown to be under age 10 in 1820 (b abt 1811-20), age 15 to 19 in 1830 (b abt 1811-15) and age 20 to 29 in 1840 (b abt 1811-20) supports a reasonably strong inference that Joseph ROPER was also a resident of Joseph ROPER and Martha ROPER's household in 1820 and 1830. * * * * * JOSEPH ROPER's YEAR OF BIRTH We have only a single Census record that seems to conclusively belong to the elder Joseph ROPER, of Lincoln, TN, that of 1820 when Joseph ROPER is shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1776). Frank BATCHELOR has discussed the possiblity that this Joseph ROPER was prevously in Pendleton, SC, and a generally reasonable case might seem to be made for this connection. See: "Re: Children of John ROPER (b abt 1756-66), of Pendleton, SC" (27 Jun 2014 4:18PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1923.1.1/mb.ashx Rather than starting from the conclusion that this is the SAME Jospeh ROPER, it seems to me to be a more sound approach to carefully analyze the extant data from Lincoln to assess the expected age range and then to make the comparison with the Pendleton data after first drawing off of the stronger inferences which can be garnered from the Licoln data. * * * MARTHA ROPER's YEAR OF BIRTH While we have only a single data point for Joseph ROPER from 1820, we actually have three data points to use to directly assess Martha ROPER's likely age. First, Martha in 1820 is shown to be age 45 or more in 1820 (b bef 1776). Next, in 1830, Martha is shown to be age 60 to 69 (b abt 1761-70). Finally, in 1840, Martha is again shown to be age 60 to 69 (b abt 1771-80), directly contradicting the 1830 enumeration, though this could perhaps be reconciled with a conclusion that Martha was born near the boundary of these two ranges (e.g. abt 1770-1). Arranging the data, we thus have: b bef 1776 (age 45 or more) [1820] b abt 1761-70 (age 60 to 69) [1830] b abt 1771-80 (age 60 to 69) [1840] If we we to make the inference that ALL three of these indications of age we reasonably CORRECT within a small margin of error, this would support a conclusion that Martha was born abt 1770-1, near the adjacentcy of the 1830 and 1840 reported age ranges. If we were to completely discount the 1820 result ONLY, we might reach a similar conclusion. If we thought the 1830 report was in serious error, we might rely SOLELY on the 1820 and 1840 reports and deduce that Martha was born about 1771-5. And if we thought the 1840 report was in serious error and discarded this report, we would conlude that Martha was born abt 1761-70, as shown in the 1830 enumeration (this being consistent and narrower than the b bef 1776 indication from 1820. Thus, combining the data in several different ways, we might be inclined to conclude either that Martha ROPER was: b abt 1770-1 b abt 1771-5 b abt 1761-70 * * However, we must also recognize that the given AGES of the children also give us a little more information about Martha ROPER's age, though admittedly we cannot be certain that ALL of these are Martha's children. Of the readily identifiable children, Bracken is the eldest and he seems to have been born abt 1806 in NORTH CAROLINA (though see my discussion above). If Martha was born about 1770-1, then she would have been 35 to 36 when Bracken was born. This is really QUITE ANCIENT for those days. If Martha was born as early as 1761, then she would have been about age 45 at the birth of the first KNOWN child. This seems UNLIKELY TO ME. With reference to the younger children, the age range is even more stark. For example, Joseph ROPER seems to have been born about 1813. Again, if Martha was born as early as 1761, then she would have been about age 52 at Joseph's birth IF he is Martha's son. Realize that there was at least one more child shown to be age 10 to 14 in 1830 (b abt 1816-20). If Martha was this child's mother, then she would have been abt age 55 when this younger child was born. This is also the age range of the female child in the household suggesting that Martha might have had children at age 55 and 56, etc. It seems to me that the upper end of the age range implied by the 1830 Census return and the earlier years in the range of 1761 to 1770 are simply UNLIKELY and IMPLAUSIBLE given the ages of the younger children. For this reason, I would submit that IF Martha is the mother of the younger children in the Lincoln ROPER households in 1820 and 1830, it is MORE LIKELY that the 1830 Census report is erroneous and that Martha is more likely to be an age consistent with the 1820 and 1840 data. * * * There is another dissonance to assuming that Joseph and Martha are OLDER than most couples with children of these ages. Until the post-Civil War era, during which there were many "old maids" due to the dearth of marriageable men in consequence of the War casualties, the much lower life expectancies of women in child birth reasonably assured that most young women would marry and that they would marry at a young age. It is therefore UNLIKELY that Martha would have married as late as age 25 EXCEPT as to a second marriage or subsequent marriage. If Joseph ROPER was married as early as 1790, then he would most likely have been shown as a head of household in the 1790 Census if residing in North Carolina or South Carolina. Of course, if Joseph ROPER was residing in Virginia, where the Census returns were LOST, then he would be essentially invisible. Similarly, if Joseph ROPER was ALREADY in Tennessee, then he would be amongst those whose presence cannot be identified because the Census returns were LOST. * * * Overall, I believe that it is most reasonable to REJECT the age range given for Martha completely in 1830 and to place the greatest reliance on the 1820 and 1840 data, thus yeilding an age range of b abt 1771-5. * * * * * Now there is also some intuition to be garnered from analysis of Martha ROPER's age in respect to our confidence in the single 1820 Census enumeration as to Joseph ROPER's age. Joseph ROPER is shown to be age 45 or more in 1820 (b bef 1776). It is MORE LIKELY than not that Joseph was OLDER than Martha. This is far from certain, but more often than not women married before men and women also tended to marry older men. Thus, the Census data for Martha ROPER for 1820, 1830 and 1840 seems to suggest that we ought to place somewhat greater confidence in the validity of the Census data shown for Joseph ROPER. That is the indication that Joseph ROPER was born before 1776 seems likely to be CORRECT. * This, in turn, seems to me to somewhat undermine the possibility that Joseph ROPER, of Lincoln, TN, might have been Charles ROPER and Ann BUTLER's son Joseph ROPER. Though we do NOT know precisely when this Joseph ROPER was born, it seems likely that he was born AFTER Nancy ROPER (b 06 Apr 1777) and probably before Mary (Dolly) ROPER, who seems to have been born about 1789 or 1790. IF this is Charles and Elizabeth Butler ROPER's son Joseph, then he might have married a somewhat older woman after the death of his first wife (Miss WHITEHEAD). For some reasons to be the subject of another future post, I still think that this may be the case. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>