This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Goodwyn, Lucy, Lockhart, Wren Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1903/mb.ashx Message Board Post: A Jesse ROPER is shown to appear on the 1786 Tax List for Williams District, Northampton County, North Carolina. Ann Lewis ROPER, widow of Richard ROPER is shown on the Tax List for Vincent's District, Northampton County, NC, that year. Similarly, there is a Jesse ROPER shown within a compilation shown on Ancestry as the North Carolina, State Census, 1784-1787 (which I believe is actually a compilation of special tax lists for these years). Jesse ROPER is shown on Page 4 of the list for Captain WILLIAMS' district:* Jesse ROPER: 1 - 3 - 5 -- 0 - 0 The first figure (1) is for white males over age 21. The second figure (3) is for white males under 21 and above 60. The third figure (5) is for white females of all ages. The fourth figure (0) is blacks age 12-50. The final figure (0) is for blacks under 12 and over 50. * This is probably a different secondary compilation of the same Tax List data described as a Tax List for 1786, above. Assuming without concluding that this is Jesse ROPER (b 31 May 1751), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, he would be about age 35 in 1786. Thus, Jesse would presumably be the SOLE male over age 21. Most likely, the three males under age 21 (b abt 1765-90) or over age 60 are ALL Jesse ROPER's minor sons. Most likely, one of the females is Jesse's wife and the other four are most likely daughters. The identity of the others shown on the same Tax List may also be of some possible significance. These include: Thomas SEVERETT Joseph COLLIER William NORTON Oadom POYTRESS Numan HATCHCOCK John MORGAN, Jr. Henry LEE Starling RACHEL Thomas WILLIAMS James NORTON, Jr. James NORTON, SR. Isham NORTON William NORWOOD Nattal. NORWOOD William LOVE Ransford FLOWERS Robert MALONE Robert CRITTENDEN Edward CAPEL Jesse ROPER Saml. WORNUM John McGRIGGER Lemmond LAND Allen GLOVER Thomas MAUGHAN Nathan HARRIS [page 4] Burwell LUCY, Sr., mentioned below, is shown on the previous page of the Tax List / State Census and is shown to be the SOLE member of his own household. He is also listed in the column of under 2 and over age 60. It seems most likely that Burwell LUCY is the latter and was probably born bef 1727. Whether Burwell LUCY is related in some way or was solely counterparty in the sale of land is unclear. * This would seem likely to be the SAME Jesse ROPER who is shown in a deed dated 12 Jan 1779 granted by Burrel or Burwell LUCY for 100 acres of land. The grantee of the deed is apparently shown to be Jesse ROPER, of Dinwiddie, Virginia. This Deed is apparently proven at the September Court for Northampton, NC, and recorded in Northampton Deed Book 6. The deed abstract purports the neighbors to be: ROY, HORTON, HODGES, MEACHAM, and SORREL. This deed was witnessed by William HUDSON, Joseph CARTER, Henry MASON and Robert MALONE. The land is shown to adjoin the "Spring Branch". I have NOT seen the image of the deed. The indication that the purchaser was Jesse ROPER, of Dinwiddie, is a strong indication that this Jesse ROPER is Charles ROPER's son. Jesse ROPER is shown as a witness to the deed of Samuel LOCKHART, of Northampton, NC, to William HUDSON, of same, dated 01 Jul 1780. Jesse ROPER is shown as a witness on the deed of Henry MASON, of Northhampton, NC, to Charles THOMPSON, of Northampton, dated 17 Dec 1782. Seven years after purchasing this parcel, on 27 [No Month] 1786, Jesse ROPER and his wife Biddy (Obedience) sold this parcel to John MAHOLLAND. This deed was proven at the September 1786 Court and recorded in Northampton Deed Book 7. HORTON, MEECHAM and SORET (probably SORREL) are shown to own the neighboring parcels. * Jesse ROPER is NOT shown in the 1790 Census to be residing in Northampton County, so we may surmise that he relocated after the sale of this property in 1786. A number of the neighbors mentioned appear on this Census page: Nathaniel THRIFT Banjamin JACKSON John ETTER Simon WOODWARD Sarah ROOK Sewil CARTER Eaton HAYNES Benjamin SMITH Samuel LOCKHART Burwell LUCY Sarah WILKINS James ROY Thomas ARCHER Elizabeth LOVE William GLOVER John HATHAWAY William KEMP Elizabeth MORNUM William LOVE David SCOTT Nathan HARRIS Nathl HARRIS Simon HARRIS Gilliam MOODY Thomas SERETT Kinchen ROSSER Thomas HUDSON Seth PEEBLES James HORTON Alexander LOVE William NARSWORTHY William HORTON Jno. McDANIEL Michael WALTHORPE Matthew KEY Abso COLLIER Note that Samuel LOCKHART was the name of the Company Commander -- Captain Samuel LOCKHART -- of Revolutionary War Veteran John ROPER (b 1763 - Brunswick, NC, d 1852 - Oak Level, AL). John ROPER's Revolutionary Pension Application also gives us some additional insight into this Jesse ROPER, because of the extent to which their migration patterns seemed to coincide, at least for a while: "He [John ROPER] has a copy of the Record of his age which shows that he was born 24 February 1763 in Brunswick County & State of Virginia - after the War he resided about 2 years in Northampton County - then removed into Cumberland County then to Mecklenburg County - in North Carolina Thence to Gwinnett County Georgia where he now resides." See: "Pension Application of John Roper: S31945" http://revwarapps.org/s31945.pdf Otherwise, these former neighbors are included NOT because I see something significant as to any of these names, but rather because later, some significance might be noted by someone else with ready access to the identity of the neighbors. * * * There is only one Jesse ROPER shown in the U.S. Census in 1790 anywhere in the United States. This is the Jesse ROPER enumerated in Cumberland, North Carolina: 1790 United States Census for Cumberland, NC Jesse ROPER: 3 - 2 - 7 -- 0 - 0 [Cumberland, NC 1790] See: "United States Census, 1790," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHK1-VSJ : accessed 10 May 2014), Jesse Roper, Not Stated, Cumberland, North Carolina; citing "1790 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 101, line 8434, NARA microfilm publication M637, roll 7, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 00406. * Jesse is enumerated on Guilford DUDLEY's list. Although Guilford DUDLEY seems to have done the entire Census for Cumberland that year, he made one list for Fayetteville and another for the remainder of Cumberland County. Jesse is on the list outside of Fayetteville. The first figure shown is for free white males age 16 and up (b bef 1775). The second figure is for white males under age 16 (b abt 1774-90). The third figure is for white females. The two remaining figures (both zero) are for free blacks and slaves. Note the consistency with the prior data from the Tax List (probably from 1786). In 1786, Jesse seems to have a wife, 3 sons, and four daughters. In 1790, he seems likely to have a wife, two (2) sons over age 16 (bef 1774), two (2) sons under age 16 (b abt 1774-90) and six (6) daughters. In short, Jesse seems to have one more son and two more daughters four years later. This seems reasonably consistent with Jesse being a young man with a still growing family. Of course, since the 1790 Census does NOT show the relationship of those within the household, it is far from certain that all members of Jesse's household are wife and children. Any one of these might be related in some other way, or NOT related at all. Unfortunately, the Census enumeration for Cumberland, NC, is in quasi-alphabetical order, so one cannot garner any useful informaation about proximity to neighbors. * No one seems to have ever bothered to look up this Jesse ROPER's deed records or to find ANY OTHER extant records within Cumberland concerning Jesse ROPER or John ROPER. This is probably because the deed records would further show the fraudulent nature of the lineage which is now generally circulated for Revolutionary War Veteran John ROPER. * * * No one seems to have previously identified Jesse ROPER's Census record in Lancaster District, South Carolina. At Ancestry, this record was indexed under Jesse ROSEN. It was indexed as ROSEN at the LDS FamilySearch.org website, too. Careful scrutiny of the third letter shows that it is a "p" rather than an "s". The terminal "r" is somewhat more ambiguous. I have corrected the Index entry at Ancestry. 1800 United States Census for Lancaster District, SC Jesse ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 1 -- 6 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Lancaster District, SC 1800] See: "United States Census, 1800," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHRC-QF4 : accessed 10 May 2014), Jesse Rosen, Not Stated, Lancaster District, South Carolina; citing "1800 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 13, NARA microfilm publication M32, roll 50, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 181425. * The 1800 Census record is reasonably consistent with that of Jesse ROPER in 1790, adding confidence to this asciption of the Census record. Jesse ROPER would seem to be the male age 45 or more (b bef 1756). This is consistent with the known date of birth of Jesse ROPER (b 31 May 1751), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN. The eldest female in this household is also age 45 or more (b bef 1756), consistent with the possibility that Jesse's first wife has survived to middle age. The precise identities and relationships of the remaining members of the household become a little murkier. ALL of the younger members of the household could be unmarried children, though it would be more common for the daughters to have married before are 26. The two males age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-74) are consistent in age with the two males over 16 also found in Jesse's household in 1790. The two eldest females could be either Jesse's daughters or wives of the eldest sons. Alternatively, one of the daughters might have married and her husband joined the household. With two boys and six girls under age ten (b abt 1781-90), it seems more likely that at least some, if not all of these youngsters might be grandchildren rather than children of Jesse. Here are the age ranges of members of Jesse ROPER's household summarized by implicit year of birth: 1 male b bef 1756 (age 45 or more) 2 males b abt 1756-74 (age 26 to 44) 1 male b abt 1785-90 (age 10 to 15) 2 males b abt 1791-1800 (under age 10) 1 female b bef 1756 (age 45 or more) 2 females b abt 1756-74 (age 26 to 44) 1 female b abt 1775-84 (age 16 to 25) 1 female b abt 1785-90 (age 10 to 15) 6 females b abt 1791-1800 (under age 10) * Others shown to be residing proximate to Jesse ROPER in Lancaster in 1800 are: Robert HANCOCK Nat. TOMLINSON Robert CARNY Alexander CARNY Isaac ANDERSON George WHITE Andrew JOHNSON John BLANKS George WRICK William WREN Guy WALLIS Jesse ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 1 -- 6 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Lancaster District, SC 1800] Wylie DORSEY Will MAFRAY Rob. John BROWN Baxter THROWER Samuel HIGGINS Will. GRAHAM John STEVENSON Will. GAMMUL Patrick HENRY Isaac BARR David STRAIN * Further confirmation of the correctness of this transcription is probably given in a deed granted by Jesse ROPER, of Lancaster County, to George WREN. I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS DEED. Jesse Roper seems to have sold 150 acres which had been conveyed to him by Adam Fowler Brisbane. I do NOT have a date for this record, nor do I have any reference as to the conveyance into Jesse ROPER. * * * Despite much searching, I do NOT find a Census record for this Jesse ROPER anywhere else in the United States. I took special care in looking in both Lancaster District, where I exemained every Census page of the 1818 Census, back in Cumberland, and in North Carolina or South Carolina generally. Despite the misindexing, when I set about looking for the 1800 Census record, I found it in about five minutes. I did NOT find an obvious 1810 Census record for either Jesse ROPER OR his widow, despite looking for about two hours. >From this, I think that it is most likely (a) that Jesse ROPER died before 1820, (b) that Jesse ROPER moved to an area of the frontier which wasn't subject to enumeration in the 1820 Census or where the Census returns were LOST (e.g. Mississippi Territory or Eastern Tennessee), or (c) that Jesse was missed in the 1820 Census enumeration. Possibilities (a) and (b) seem most likely. If Jesse ROPER was still living simply residing in a place not subject to enumeration in 1820, he would most likely have later appeared in the 1820 Census at age 69, if still living. Given life expectancies in those days, Jesse ROPER's death before 1810, when he would have turned 59 seems particularly likely. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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