This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Story, Neely, McNeely Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1903.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Realization that Jesse ROPER (b 31 May 1751,d bef 22 Jan 1810), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, died in or near Mecklenburg, NC, and that his estate was probated there gives us probably sufficient reason to suspect that the James ROPER found in Mecklenberg in the 1820 Census is Jesse ROPER's son. James ROPER's 1820 Census record shows these counts: James ROPER: 0 - 2 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 2 -- 0 - 4 - 0 - 3 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Mecklenburg, NC 1820] See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHGH-849 : accessed 10 May 2014), James Roper, Not Stated, Mecklenburg, North Carolina; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 189, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 84, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0162800. This James ROPER is shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1776). There are two females shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1776) residing in this household. One of these may be Obedience ROPER, widow of Jesse ROPER. There are also two males age 10 to 15 (b abt 1805-10) and two males age 16 to 26 (b abt 1794-1804) in James ROPER's household, as well as one female under age 10 (b abt 1811-20), two females age 10 to 15 (b abt 1805-10) and one female age 16 to 26 (b abt 1794-1804). There is also one male slave age 14 to 25. It is NOT clear that all of the younger members of the household are James ROPER's children. There is at least some reason to suspect that at least one (other than Obedience ROPER) may not be, as further discussed below. * It is hard to get a much better fix on James ROPER's age from the Census records alone, though it is useful to quickly review again Jesse ROPER's records within the context of James ROPER's age. Recall that Jesse ROPER's appearance on the 1784 Northampton Tax List included three males under age 21 (b abt 1765-86). Similarly, the 1790 Census enumeration from Cumberland, NC, shows three males (including Jesse ROPER) age 16 and up (b bef 1775) and two white males under age 16 (b abt 1774-90). Finally, the 1800 Census record from Lancaster District shows two males age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-74), one male age 10 to 15 (b abt 1785-90) and two males under age 10 (b abt 1791-1800). Summarized, we have these additional implicit estimates of James ROPER's year of birth: b abt 1765-86 (Under age 21 in 1786) [Northampton, NC, Tax List] b bef 1775 (Age 16 and up) OR b 1775-90 (Under age 16) [Cumberland, NC, 1790 Census Record] b abt 1756-74 (age 26 to 44) [Lancaster, SC, 1800 Census Record] Bearing in mind that we are most confident that James ROPER is born before 1776 (from the 1820 Census record), it seems most likely that James was one of the two elder boys shown in the 1790 Census record (b bef 1775). This would seem to be further confirmed by the 1800 Census record showing NO males in the age 16 to 25 age range (b abt 1775-84). The LOWER end of James ROPER's age range thus seems to place the latest year of birth about 1774. The upper end of James ROPER's age range would then seem to be implied by an earliest year of birth of about 1765 (as shown in the 1786 Tax List). However, recognizing that Jesse ROPER was born on 31 May 1751, it seems most likely that Jesse married no earlier than about age 18 (abt 1769) and probably didn't have his first child until the following year. Moreover, at the date of the 1786 Tax List, Jesse seems to have three sons and four daughters, so there is better than an even chance that the first child was female. Overall, it seems to me that we can probably state with some confidence that this James ROPER was born abt 1769-74. * * * The identity of James ROPER's children is probably implicitly suggested by his 1828 Mecklenburg, NC, probate file, which no one seems to have bothered to inspect, despite the images being readily available online at the FamilySearch.org site. James W. ROPER was named as administrator of James ROPER's estate. This James W. ROPER, who married Biddy ROPER, seems likely to be James ROPER's son. The administrator's bond for $1,200, dated 24 Nov 1828, was signed by James W. ROPER, David ROPER and James STORY, and seems to have been presented at the November 1828 Term of the Court. See: "North Carolina, Estate Files, 1663-1979," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-32035-24595-61?cc=1911121&wc=93P4-C68:183210601,183381101,199897201 : accessed 10 May 2014), Mecklenburg County > R > Roper, James (1828) > image 7 of 14; citing State Archives, Raleigh. The Inventory Sale seems to have taken place quickly on 12 Dec 1828. Amongst the purchasers at the sale were: David ROPER, James STORY, Charles B. ROPER, David MILLS, James PATTERSON, Sarah J. ROPER, John COURTON, Samuel TICER, Joseph WEEKS, John HOOD, John TEMPLES, John STORY, James MILLER, John CULP, John PINNSER?, Randolph COLE, Rebecca R. ROPER, Dan C. ROPER, Reuben COLE, John WIATT, William G. COX?. Sarah J. ROPER is shown to have purchased a bible [Image 10]. There are also listed some outstanding bills (drafts): J. M. DIGARLICK, James WESTBROOK, G. THORN?, Hyden A. DAVIE, Elizer HARRIS and U.S. Bank at Charleston. The Inventory seems to have been presented at the February 1829 Term of the Mecklenburg Court [Image 12]. See: "North Carolina, Estate Files, 1663-1979," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-32035-24019-73?cc=1911121&wc=93P4-C68:183210601,183381101,199897201 : accessed 10 May 2014), Mecklenburg County > R > Roper, James (1828) > image 9 of 14; citing State Archives, Raleigh. James ROPER's widow Nancy petitioned the Court for her year's allowance out of the estate [Images 13-4], which provision was certified to the Court at the Februrary 1829 Term by John H. HOOD, Thomas WIATT and John KINEAR?? [Images 5-6]. See: "North Carolina, Estate Files, 1663-1979," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-32035-24566-18?cc=1911121&wc=93P4-C68:183210601,183381101,199897201 : accessed 11 May 2014), Mecklenburg County > R > Roper, James (1828) > image 5 of 14; citing State Archives, Raleigh. "North Carolina, Estate Files, 1663-1979," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-32035-24542-74?cc=1911121&wc=93P4-C68:183210601,183381101,199897201 : accessed 10 May 2014), Mecklenburg County > R > Roper, James (1828) > image 13 of 14; citing State Archives, Raleigh. The Estate seems to have been ultimately settled at the February 1833 Term of the Court [Images 1-2]. * * The James STORY who co-signed James W. ROPER's administrator bond seems likely to have been the James STORY who married Bethia ROPER in Mecklenburg on 25 Feb 1817. Although it is also possible that Bethia ROPER is a daughter of John ROPER, it seems more likely that she is James ROPER's daughter, especially given James STORY's appointment as co-administrator of James ROPER's estate. * * * Since there is a John ROPER enmerated immediately adjacent to James ROPER in the 1820 Census record, it is far from certain that ALL of the ROPERs named as purchasers at the December 1828 Inventory Sale are children of James ROPER. To summaize those ROPERs mentioned in the probate records were: Nancy ROPER (widow) James W. ROPER (administrator) David ROPER (bondsman) Charles B. ROPER Dan C. ROPER Sarah J. ROPER Rebecca R. ROPER There are FOUR male ROPERs, EXACTLY corresponding with the number of males residing with James ROPER in the 1820 Census record. By contrast, there are only TWO female ROPERs shown. The eldest of the daughter shown in the Census may have already been married by 1828. Looking at other primary records seems to bear this out. As mentioned, James STORY is shown to have married Bethia ROPER on 25 Feb 1817 in Mecklenburg, NC. Bethia Roper STORY therefore would have probably been already absent from the household by 1820. The 1850 Census for Upson County, Georgia, shows a James A. and Bethia STORY residing there. Bethia STORY is shown to be age 50 (b abt 1800) and born in South Carolina. This is consistent with Jesse ROPER's 1800 Census record when he was enumerated in Lancaster County, SC. Separately, secondary sources show a Mary ROPER marrying first William McNEELY and secondly a John M. STORY. The 1850 Census record for John M. STORY of Pike County, Georgia, shows a John M. STORY, age 48, a Mary STORY, age 48, and seven STORY yougnsters, including a Biddy R. STORY, age 14. The eldest two children, David W. STORY, age 20 and Esther STORY, age 18, are shown to be born in NC, while the younger children starting with Benjamin W. STORY, age 16, are shown to be born in Georgia. Thus, it seems likely that John M. STORY and Mary Roper STORY migrated to Georgia about 1832-4. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZYH-B3G : accessed 11 May 2014), John M Story, Pike county, Pike, Georgia, United States; citing family 41, NARA microfilm publication M432. Mary STORY is again enumerated in Pike County, Georgia, in 1850, at age 58, so the implicit year of birth seems reasonably solid. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZMC-92N : accessed 11 May 2014), Mary Story, , Pike, Georgia, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 20, household ID 131, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803134. There seems to be primary support for a marriage of Polly ROPER to a William NEELY or McNEELY in Mecklenburg on 28 Nov 1820. See: "North Carolina, County Marriages, 1762-1979 ," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11598-133318-36?cc=1726957 : accessed 11 May 2014), 004364139 > image 721 of 754. The appearance of a Biddy STORY within the household of John M. and Mary STORY seems to me to be suggestive that the secondary ascription is probably correct, though I would think it approproriate to find some better proof. To the extent that Mary ROPER (b abt 1802 - NC) was James ROPER's daughter, she seems likely to be the one female age 16 to 26 (b abt 1794-1804) shown in James ROPER's 1820 Census record. * * While James ROPER was enumerated adjacent to John ROPER in 1820, by 1830 this John ROPER seems to have moved away. Since there are NO OTHER ROPER households in Mecklenburg in 1830, this seems to me to support a much stronger inference that the ROPERs named in the Inventory Sale are James ROPER's children. Thus, I am inclined to tentatively ascribe these children to James and Nancy ROPER: James W. ROPER (b abt 1791-1800 - NC, d bef 1850) m Biddy ROPER on 14 Aug 1821 David M. ROPER (b abt 1795 - SC) Bethia ROPER (b abt 1800 - SC) m James STORY on 25 Feb 1817 (Mecklenburg, NC) Mary ROPER (b abt 1802 - NC) m William NEELY on 28 Nov 1820 (Mecklenburg, NC) Charles B. ROPER (b abt 1801-10 - NC) Daniel C. ROPER (b abt 1807 - SC) Sarah J. ROPER Rebecca R. ROPER There may have been one other unnamed daughter whose name doesn't appear within the probate records, possibly because she is also married. However, I suspect that Biddy ROPER, who married James W. ROPER, may have already been living in her UNCLE's household by 1820, PRIOR to marrying her first cousin on 14 Aug 1821. The ONLY two females in the household of neighboring John ROPER in 1820 are under age 10 (b abt 1811-20). While Biddy ROPER would have been about age 22 in 1820, OLDER than Mary ROPER, as a niece rather than a daughter, one might easily imagine that Biddy's age might be erroneously reported to the Census enumerator. One might also well imagine that Biddy might have resided in the neighboring household of her grandmorther, for whom she was named. I must emphasize that this is SPECULATION. The FACT is that there is one MORE female child in James ROPER's household than can be explained by the probate records. There is NO corresponding child in John ROPER's household of an age to be the younger Biddy ROPER who married James W. ROPER. Biddy ROPER may instead be from another nearby branch of the ROPER family. I am simply seeking a simple and logical explanation that best harmonizes the extant data. However, researchers should treat this explanation as an avenue for additional investigation rather than a firm ascription. Biddy ROPER may be John ROPER's daughter and may have married her first cousin James W. ROPER. But without further proof, this ascription is speculative. James ROPER might have also had another unnamed daughter, possibly already married by 1828. * * * I have previously discussed James W. ROPER within my thread: "James W. ROPER (b abt 1791-1800 - NC, d bef 1850), of Mecklenburg, NC, and Sumter, AL" (22 Jan 2013 12:58AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1767/mb.ashx This James ROPER married Biddy ROPER in Mecklenburg County, NC, on 14 Aug 1821. James ROPER's brother David ROPER was a bondsman for the marriage. See: "North Carolina, County Marriages, 1762-1979 ," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12399-111132-73?cc=1726957 : accessed 11 May 2014), 004364141 > image 267 of 762. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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