This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875/mb.ashx Message Board Post: At the suggestion of William Alexander Roper, Jr., I will be posting collected information on various individual Roper family members, e.g. Charles J. Roper, Philip Lawson Roper, etc. That information is already posted, but scattered, and sometimes hard to access. Although this is not discussion of an individual Roper, since I have been working on it the last few days, I thought I would go ahead and post it. This is the information I have been collecting on evidence of a relationship between David Roper of Caswell, NC, William Roper of Caswell, NC, Tennessee Roper of TN, David Y Roper of TN, and Wiley Blunt Roper. That a William Roper was one of the sons of David Roper of Caswell County, NC, who married a Sarah, appears to be without question. The L. David Roper database has this entry: Caswell Co. Deeds: H:85. 25 Sep 1792. 50 acres. William Roper of Caswell Co. "for Love Goodwill & Effection that I bear unto David Roper & Sarah Roper my father & mother" Land in Caswell on Rattlesnake Creek; land where on said David Roper now lives; "beg. Edmund Alleys SW corner runing E. 61 poles thence S. with Edward Swans line to my corner thence W. with Hubberts line to Rattle Snake Creek then down the creek to white oak Saplin neare the upper part or fence of my plantation thence meare a NE Course to the first Station". "During their natural life" Test: Edmd. Alley, James Yates William X Roper After this transfer of property, William Roper disappears from the records of Caswell County, NC. Where did he go? Although the evidence is scant because of a lack of historical records, circumstantial evidence suggests he moved to Tennessee. In looking at the L. David Roper database for Roper Families in Tennessee, there appear to be only three William Ropers in Tennessee between 1800 and 1820. One William Roper had marital problems with his wife Polly, who was not faithful. He moved to Summer, TN in 1806. This is not the William Roper I will be concerned with. Another William Roper married an Elizabeth Brown on June 26, 1816 in Knox, TN. I am not concerned with this William Roper either. The William Roper that I will be concerned with will first show up in Davidson County, TN and then probably move to Maury, TN. Davidson County, TN was first formed in 1783. Williamson County was then formed out of the southern portions of Davidson County in 1799, Maury County was carved out of the south end of Williamson in 1807, and Giles County would be carved out of the southern end of Maury in 1809. William Roper first shows up residing in Davidson County, TN, while purchasing property on Flat Creek in Maury County, TN: "County Records: First Deed Book-Maury Co. 1807-18. p.62: 4 Dec 1809 Perry Coper (Cooper or Roper) of Maury Co., TN conveys 200 acres on Flat Creek to Wm. Roper of Davidson Co., TN " (L. David Roper database). A William Roper is still seen in the 1811 tax list of Davidson County, TN. Then on September 10, 1817, a William Roper conveyed property in Maury County, TN: "Maury Co., TN Cancery Court Records 1810-1890, V. I: p. 178: Joseph Hackney, Dec. 1824. Hackney guardian of David Loving, Malinda Loving, Henry Loving...Deed of Conveyance: William Roper to William Loving 10 Sep 1817, 48 acres, on east fork of Big Tombigby Creek- mistake in boundaries." (L. David Roper database). A William Roper then appears in the 1820 Maury, TN census as follows: William Roper 0-0-0-0-0-1 0-0-0-0-1-0 Page 11 William is 45 , and there is one female 26-45. (Slaves not listed?) There are only two other Ropers in Maury, TN in 1820: David Y. Roper 2-0-0-0-1-0 2-0-0-1-0-0 No slaves Page 2 Tennessee Roper 0-0-0-1-0-0 1-0-1-0-0-0 One slave Page 2 David is 26-45, with a presumed wife 16-26, and they have two males <10 and two females <10. Tennessee is 16-26, and his presumed wife is 16-18. They have one female <10. (There is an earlier record for David Y. Roper. He is listed as David Y. Roper, a soldier in the War of 1812, in the company of 2 Reg't (Cocker's) W. Tennessee Militia, inducted as a Corporal and discharged as Corporal.) What connections can we make between Tennessee Roper, David Y. Roper, and the William Roper of Caswell, NC? I'll discuss Tennessee Roper first. The name Tennessee Roper may indicate that he was born in TN. Since Tennessee Roper's date of birth will be later shown to be July 2, 1798, his parents may have been in Tennessee by that date. Tennessee Roper is found on the same census page as David Y. Roper and, thus, is probably related to David Y. Roper, either as a brother or as a cousin, but not as a son, since David's presumed wife of 16-26 would be too young to be the mother. The Ricketts Roper Bible can be found on Ancestry.com when searching for information on Tennessee Roper and his wife Martha Harper. The actual images of the Bible show the lineage of Tennessee Roper, giving both Births and Marriages. From what I gather from secondary sources, the bible was published in 1864 and is now in the possession of C. Albert Ricketts, Jr., a descendant of a Samuel S. Ricketts, who married Mary Roper, daughter of Tennessee Roper and Martha Harper. A copy appears to be located in the Tennessee State Archives MS Div. AC, No. 70-24, page 1, births. This is my transcription of the birth page from the bible as posted on the Internet: "Births Tennessee Roper was born July 2nd 1798 Martha Harper was born Sept 12th 1798 Mary Roper was born March 4th 1820 Sarah Roper was born April 14th1821 John Roper was born April 5th 1823 Kisiah Roper was born April 5th 1823 Selina Roper was born April 5th 1825 Ephram H. Roper was born Nov 22nd 1827 William Roper was born August 19th1830" On the same page of Births, in a column to the right, we find the following births: "Tennessee Roper Jun was Born Nov 22nd 1832 Martha L Roper was Born July 22nd 1835 Nancy E. Roper was Born Dec 10th 1839 Mary Jane Walker was Born March 19th 1827" All of the entries above appear to be in the same handwriting and possibly listed in the bible at the same time. The old script "f" appears for all double "ss". There is an added entry at the end in handwriting that is not as elegant as all the other entries and which reads (from what I can make out) "Mary Jane Walker Born March 19 1827." I specifically noted that there are two separate columns, one headed with Tennessee Roper, b. 1798, and the other headed Tennessee Roper, b. 1832. This indicates to me that one column is listing the wife and children of Tennessee Roper, Sr. and the other is listing the children of Tennessee Roper, Jr. "Marriages Tennessee Roper and Martha Harper was married April 8th 1819 A. J. Langham and Sarah Roper was married Oct 19th 1836 Saml S. Rickets and Mary Roper was married Nov 4th 1840 Saml S. Rickets and Mary J. Walker was married Dec (?) 24th 1851" All of the above marriage information appears to have been in the same elegant handwriting as the Births information and to have been entered at the same time. There is additional information written in what appears to be a different handwriting, with blue ink instead of black ink. That information is this: "Wm L. Ricketts and Nancy Ladora Montague was married. Tennie R. Ricketts and Isabella Tennon was married. Aug. John A. Pitts and Melissa Ellen Ricketts. was married Nov 5th 1872 John J. Williams and Mary Elizabeth Ricketts was married January 13th 1874" There is a separate hand written record that can be found on Ancestry.com under the heading of Tennessee State Marriages, 1780-2002, which shows the marriage of Tennessee Roper to Martha Harper on April 6, 1819, by George Johnston J.P, and which is two days off the Bible entry. Among the names listed as children of Tennessee Roper, b. 1798, is Kesiah Roper. William Roper of Caswell, NC married Keziah Yates on August 31, 1781. Their bondsman was John Yeats. It would be natural, if not expected, for Tennessee Roper to name a child after one or both of his parents. David Y. Roper, the probable brother, will also name a child Kizzie. Tennessee Roper, b. 1819 will name one son William, similar to the name of his father. As can be seen above in the Bible "Marriages" records, a Wm. L Ricketts married a Nancy Ladora Montague. Three separate Montague families, Thomas Montague, Abraham Montague, and Mary Mauntague, can be seen on the same pages with William Roper in the 1820 Maury, TN census. Tennessee Roper, b. 1819 can also be found in the 1830 Maury, TN census, on the same page as David Y. Roper, five households away. William Roper is not in the 1830 census. In fact, the only Ropers shown in Maury, TN in 1830 are Tennessee Roper and David Y. Roper: Tennessee Roper 2-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 1-3-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 5 slaves Tennessee is shown 20-30, and his wife is shown 20-30. There are two males <5, one female <5, and two females 5-10. David Y. Roper 0-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 2-0-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 20 slaves David is shown as 40-50, with his presumed wife also 40-50. There is one male 5-9, one male 10-15, one male 15-20, two female <5, one female 10-15, and one female 20-30. Both David Y. Roper and Tennessee Roper appear is the 1836 Maury, TN tax list. No other Ropers are shown. What is interesting about this record is that Tennessee Roper is shown with 6 slaves valued at 3300, while David Y. Roper is shown with only 2 slaves valued at 1600. One wonders if the 20 slaves entry for David Y. Roper in the 1830 census was in error, or if David was hiding some of his slaves in 1836. Tennessee Roper next appears in Wayne County, TN in the 1840 census. Wayne County is one county over from Maury County, and toward the southwest of Tennessee: Tennessee Roper 1-0-2-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 2-0-1-3-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 No slaves Tennessee Roper is now 40-50, and his wife is 30-40. Secondary sources show Tennessee Roper dying on October 29, 1843, and his wife Martha Harper dying on October 8, 1843. I can find no primary source for this. Also, if secondary sources are to be trusted, it appears that almost none of the children of Tennessee Roper survived, with the exception of Sarah and Mary. (There was a widespread flu epidemic in the United States in 1843 which killed many people. You will notice in this article that many of the Ropers died in 1843). Now let's return to David Y. Roper, who appears as the only Roper in the 1840 Giles County, Tennessee census. Giles County was carved out of Maury County in 1809, and is just to the south of Maury County, TN: David Y. Roper 1-0-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-0-1-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0 David Y. Roper is shown as age 40-49. I think this is an error made by the census taker. He should be shown as 50-60, since he was listed as 40-50 in the 1830 census. His wife is shown as 50-60. There is one male <5, one male 15-19, one female 10-14, and one female 20-29. David Y. Roper disappears after 1840, presumably dead. His wife Dionysia A. Roper will appear in the 1850 Giles County, TN census on page 6 on Ancestry.com in the household of James C. Roper. James C. Roper 27 Born Tenn Sarah Roper 23 Born Tenn Dionecia Roper 2 Born Tenn Louis V Roper 11/12 Born Tenn Dionicia Roper 66 Born SCar Andrew M 12 Born Tenn There is a headstone found on Ancestry.com for a person named Dinny that says "In Memory of Dinney Daughter of D. Y. & D. A. Roper Born June 12, 1825 Died March 20th 1838." Who erected this headstone and when it was erected is not known to me. Secondary sources state that David Y. Roper was married to Dionysia Abernathy. I can find no primary source for the surname Abernathy. David Y. Roper was surrounded by three Abernathy family members in the 1840 census in Giles, TN. There is another headstone erected in the memory of David Y. Roper, which reads: "In Memory of DAVID Y. ROPER Died September 1 1843 in the 65th year of his age". Again, I do not know who erected this headstone or when it was erected. The headstone itself looks identical to the one erected for Dinney Roper in 1838. I do question validity of the statement on the headstone that David Y. Roper was in the "65th year of his age", as this is not consistent with the 1830 Maury County census, wherein David's age is listed as 40-50 (The Ancestry.com printout says 40-49, but the image has categories for 40-50, 50-60, etc.) If it were true, David Y. Roper would probably not be the son of William Roper and Keziah Yates, who married on August 31, 1781 in Caswell, NC. Another son attributed to David Y. Roper and Dionysia by secondary sources is Wiley Blunt Roper, who first appears in the 1850 Giles County, TN census on page 8 of the Ancestry.com images. James C. Roper is on page 6. Wiley B. Roper 30 Born Tenn Minerva Roper 26 Born Tenn Dewit Roper 4 Born Tenn Margaret L Roper 3 Born Tenn David R Roper 1 Born Tenn Jane Sims 25 Born Tenn Here are the reasons I believe that Wiley B. Roper and James C. Roper are brothers. Wiley B. Roper, age 30, and James C. Roper, age 27, are close in age. They are also only two pages apart in the 1850 census. Their ages are consistent with the male children in the 1830 census and the one male child in the 1840 census of David Y Roper. Other than William Roper, the only Ropers in Maury Tennessee in 1820 and 1830 are David Y. Roper and Tennessee Roper. The children of Tennessee Roper are listed in the Ricketts Bible, and neither Wiley nor James C Roper is listed as one of his children. There is only one Roper in Giles, TN in 1840 and that is David Y. Roper. Wiley B. Roper had a son named William Fry Roper. A recent post on William Fry Roper of Green County, MO has statements by William Fry Roper that his mother was Minerva (Fry) Roper, and that his father Wiley Blunt Roper and his mother came from Tennessee to Greene County. William Fry, age 49, is on page 2 of the 1850 Giles! County, TN census. There is a John Fry also shown in the 1850 Giles, TN census, who has a "Mary Abbeonatty", age 14, in the household. If Wiley Blunt Roper is the brother of James C. Roper, then he is probably the son of David Y. Roper. One final connection that can be made between William Roper and Keziah Yates and David Y. Roper, is the middle initial Y. William Alexander Roper, Jr. has pointed out that there is no existing record showing the middle initial to be the name Yates, which is true. He also suggests that the Y could represent a number of other names beginning with the letter Y. However, the following are my reasons to believe that the Y stands for Yates. William Roper married a Kiziah Yates. Jemima Roper, who many consider to be the daughter of David Roper and Sarah, married a John Yates. My ancestor, John Roper of Halifax, VA, son of David and Sarah of Caswell, bought his land in Caswell from John Yates. William Roper and Kiziah Yates would normally name the first born male child after the grandfather, David Roper of Caswell, NC. This is the naming pattern that was followed in the majority of cases in Virginia and the Backcountry. It would also be natural to honor the grandfather on the mother's side, which in this case would be to include Yates. The Yates family has many connections with the Roper family, starting from Capt. William Roper transported a William Yates. There really aren't that many choices for what the Y can stand for. By far, the three most common surnames of persons in Britain today that start with a Y are Young (abt. 132,000), Yates (abt. 29,000), and York (abt. 3100), or their variants Younge, Yeats, Yorke, etc. Other less common names are like Yardley, Yarwood, and Yeoman. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>