This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Faris, Ferris, Jennings Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1877/mb.ashx Message Board Post: There are several contemporaneous Samuel ROPERs who lived in Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina during the Federal Period following the Revolution who are often confused and are quite confusing. Many researchers have made questionable and false ascriptions as to these ROPER ancestors and the secondary information about these Samuel ROPERs is very uneven. It is probably too ambitious of a task to actually resolve all of the questions and properly ascribe all of the relationships. However, as a finding and research aid, I thought it would be helpful to summarize and discuss some of the data to help clear away the detritus of false asciption and to aid in more thoughtful analysis. SAMUEL ROPER OF CHARLES CITY COUNTY, VA Amongst the Personal Property Tax records for Charles City County, there appears a Samuel ROPER in the 1782 to 1887 tax records. This Samuel ROPER is shown to own 104 acres of land in Charles City County through 1786. The 1782 Personal Property Tax record shows that this Samuel ROPER owned a slave named "Moses". In 1784, Samuel ROPER is shown in Charles City County with two slaves, "Moses" and "Lucy". In 1786, this Samuel ROPER seems to sell his land to William TERRELL and George HUBBARD. Though the recorded deed of this sale no longer exists, the fact of this transfer appears within the extant Charles City Land Tax records. Bear in mind that the Charles City County DEED RECORDS are LOST, but the real estate tax records show the disappearance of Samuel ROPER from the tax rolls and the appearance of 104 acres taxed to William TERRELL and George HUBBARD the same year. * * * SAMUEL ROPER OF CHESTERFIELD, VA Samuel ROPER first appears on the Chesterfield personal property tax lists in 1795. Samuel ROPER appears in Chesterfield near Joseph ROPER, who appeared on every extant Chesterfield Personal Property Tax List from 1786 through his death. Joseph ROPER died leaving a Will dated 25 Jan 1803. See my post: "Will of Joseph ROPER (d aft 25 Jan 1803 - Chesterfield, VA)" (5 Mar 2006 9:45AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/807/mb.ashx As can be seen from Joseph ROPER's Will, Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield, is NOT Joseph ROPER's son. The year immediately following Samuel ROPER's appearance in Chesterfield County (1796), a second Samuel ROPER, Jr., also appears on the tax lists in Chesterfield. BOTH Samuel ROPERs appear on the Chesterfield Personal Property Tax Lists EVERY YEAR thereafter until 1803. That year, BOTH Samuel ROPERs DISAPPEAR from the Chesterfield Tax Lists. However BOTH then reappear the immediately following year and then remain on the tax lists through 1806. In 1807, Samuel ROPER, Jr., disappears from the Chesterfield Tax List. Samuel ROPER, Sr. remains on the Chesterfield County Tax Lists through his death in 1811. Samuel died, leaving a Will dated 06 Nov 1811 and proved 10 Feb 1812 naming widow "Ritter" and several children: Salley TAYLOR, Joseph ROPER, Eleander JORDAN, and John ROPER. See: "Will of Samuel ROPER (d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA)" (20 Sep 2010 4:20AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1670/mb.ashx The Inventory and appraisement of the estate of Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield, recorded on 25 February 1812 shows as the first two items slaves named "Moses" and "Lucy". Also amongst the Inventory is a "Family Bible" and a "History Virginia Baptists". Perhaps the Bible is that which is cited amongst the records of the family of Dutoy ROPER. The volume "History Virginia Baptists" seems to me to suggest Samuel ROPER's religious denomination. Joseph ROPER, son of Sam (it says so on the Tax List), first appears on the Chesterfield Personal Property Tax List in 1802. This happens to precisely coincide with the year that Joseph ROPER (b 30 Jun 1781), later of Fulton, KY, turns age 21 and becomes taxable in his own right. Joseph ROPER, son of Samuel ROPER, appears on the Chesterfield Tax List only one MORE year 1803, before disappearing. A John ROPER appears on the Chesterfield Tax List in 1809 at age 22, two years before his father's death. This John ROPER married Asseneth HATCHER on 06 Jan 1807. * As previously noted, the corresponding disappearing of a Samuel ROPER from the Charles City Tax Rolls and the reappearance of a Samuel ROPER in Chesterfield, together with the EXACT identification of the slaves shown in the Charles City Tax Lists matching to the slaves shown in the Inventory rather conclusively establishes that Samuel ROPER, Sr., of Chesterfield was one and the same as the Samuel ROPER previously found in Charles City County. We do NOT know the identity of this Samuel ROPER's father, though he seems to be a Charles City ROPER. We do NOT know this Samuel ROPER's date of birth, but he was probably already at least age 21 in 1782 when he first appears on the Charles City County tax rolls (b bef 1761). Since the eldest of this Samuel ROPER's children Sarah was born in 1779, it also seems likely that this Samuel was probably married the previous year (1778) and if married no earlier than age 21 might have been b bef 1757. This Samuel certainly could have been older, but probably wasn't born after 1757 and almost certainly wasna't born after 1761. I believe that this Samuel ROPER can be correcty and reasonably described as Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA), of Chesterfield. * * * SAMUEL ROPER, OF POWHATAN, SON OF SHADRACH ROPER Another nearby Samuel ROPER is the Samuel ROPER named in Shadrach ROPER's Will dated 17 Sep 1784: Will of Shadrach ROPER (d aft 17 Sep 1784 - Powhatan, VA) (5 Mar 2006 3:12PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/808/mb.ashx This Samuel ROPER is almost certainly already an adult when Shadrach made his Will, which makes him somewhat of a contemporary of Samuel ROPER of Charles City/Chesterfield. However, the eldest of Shadrach ROPER's minor children William P. ROPER (b 1776-80 - VA, d 18 Aug 1833 - Fleming, KY) was no more than about age eight when Shadrach died. The marriage of Mary Ann ROPER to Joseph MEREDITH in Powhatan on 06 Jan 1787 seems likely to be the remarriage of Shadrach ROPER's second wife (NO, Shadrach was NOT married to the Susannah ROPER who died in Powhatan). There is a marriage of a Samuel ROPER to Martha FARIS/FERRIS in Goochland on 26 Jan 1792. Goochland County is immediately adjacent to Powhatan to the North on the opposite bank of the James River. This marriage seems likely to be that of Shadrach ROPER's son Samuel ROPER. There is also a Powhatan marriage the following month the same year (04 Feb 1792) between Kisey (Keziah) ROPER and Benjamin JENNINGS. This seems likely to be the Keziah ROPER mentioned in Susannah ROPER's Will. Although she has been falsely ascribed as a daughter of Shadrach in many posted online accounts, she is NOT mentioned in Shadrach's Will and there is NO REASON TO BELIEVE that Keziah is a daughter of Shadrach ROPER. * I seem to have misplaced my notes as to the Powhatan County Tax records. It is my RECOLLECTION that the Powhatan tax data shows the disappearance of Samuel ROPER of Powhatan immediately PRIOR to the appearance fo Samuel ROPER, Jr. in Chesterfield in 1796, but please do NOT HOLD ME TO THIS. CHECK THE POWHATAN TAX RECORDS YOURSELF! The YEAR of first appearance of Samuel ROPER in the Powhatan tax records is VERY SIGNIFICANT, but regretably I cannot find my notes on this. I just do NOT RECALL whether Shadrach ROPER appeared within the extant Tax Lists for Powhatan BEFORE HE DIED and WHICH YEAR Samuel ROPER first appeared. Samuel ROPER's FIRST APPEARANCE in the tax list would be some evidence that he had turned age 21 that year. That this Samuel ROPER seems NOT to have been a minor at Shadrach ROPER's death does seem consistent with his then already being age 21 (b bef 1763). I suspect that the authorities would have looked the other was as to Samuel ROPER's majority if he was already age 19 or 20 when his father died, so he might have even been born a couple of years later. To the extent that my recollection is correct, the description of this Samuel ROPER as Samuel ROPER, Jr., in the Chesterfield tax records merely reflected that this Samuel ROPER was YOUNGER than the Samuel ROPER who relocated to Chesterfield from Charles City County. Thus, I believe that Samuel ROPER, Jr., was born after the elder Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761) and was also probably already age 21 when Shadrach ROPER died (b bef 1764). Since Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761) could have been born several years or more before 1761, I am going to rather arbitrarily use six years and assert that Samuel ROPER, Jr., Shadrach ROPER's son was probably born abt 1755-63. I think he would be at the upper in of this range anyway. Recall that Samuel ROPER, Jr. also disappears from the Chesterfield Personal Property Tax records after 1806. Since there is NO PROBATE for a Samuel ROPER in Chesterfield that year and the elder Samuel ROPER remained thereafter, it seems reasonable to infer that Samuel ROPER, Jr., had migrated from Chesterfield about that year. * * * SAMUEL ROPER, SON OF DAVID ROPER, OF EDGEFIELD, SC The very first appearance of Samuel ROPER in ANY Census in the United States was in Edgefield, SC. Samuel ROPER appears there along with a David ROPER in 1800: David ROPER: 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] This Samuel ROPER seems to be the nephew of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) and son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC), as further discussed within this post and the referenes cited therein: "Edgefield, SC, Administration of Estate of David ROPER (1802)" (10 Mar 2014 4:34AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1859.6/mb.ashx I have picked up NO CLEAR TRACE of Samuel ROPER, son of David ROPER ANYWHERE after he received his legacy from his father's estate, although the bare possibility exists that the elder Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield, VA, could be David ROPER's son. The AGES might work, barely. Although primary information about this Samuel ROPER is wanting, I further discuss this Samuel ROPER in respect of inferences drawn from other data at the conclusion of this post. * * * SAMUEL ROPER, SON OF WILLIAM ROPER, OF EDGEFIELD, SC An extant bill of sale and some inferences from William ROPER's Will, leave us with the impression that William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, had a son named Samuel. See: "William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC)" (8 Mar 2014 5:26PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx The bill of sale from William ROPER to his son Samuel ROPER dated 21 Dec 1798 conveys property and seems to set the son up for hosuekeeping. William ROPER's Will, dated 07 Jun 1803 and proved 21 May 1804, OMITS any mention of a Samuel ROPER, but mentions dividing his estate amongst SIX CHILDREN, while the Will names only FOUR. It is possibly of some significance that Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, is identified as amongst the subscribers to the book "A General History of Baptist Denomination in America" (1813). (In those days, publication of some books was underwritten by the prior paid subscription of contracted purchasers, whose names would then also be included in the book.) See: "Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, Amongst the Subscribers of "A General History of Baptist Denomination in America" (1813)" (17 Sep 2010 9:43PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1668/mb.ashx * It perhaps also bears mention that Rev. Jacob GRIGG, the father-in-law of Rev. David ROPER, of Richmond, is also shown as a subscriber residing at Richmond, VA: http://books.google.com/books?id=e8I4AAAAMAAJ&dq=roper intitle:history intitle:of intitle:Baptist&pg=PA571#v=onepage&q&f=false Subscribers from Chesterfield are also shown on the same page. Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield, couldn't subscribe to this book, since it was published in 1813, but he was already dead in 1811. David LAWSON is shown to be amongst the subscribers to the same book resident at Caswell County, NC: http://books.google.com/books?id=e8I4AAAAMAAJ&dq=roper intitle:history intitle:of intitle:Baptist&pg=PA572#v=onepage&q&f=false The list of Edgefield, SC, subscribers is singularly LONG, suggesting a particularly vibrant Baptist congregation there: http://books.google.com/books?id=e8I4AAAAMAAJ&dq=roper intitle:history intitle:of intitle:Baptist&pg=PA573#v=onepage&q&f=false * MOST of the famiy of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN seem to have been Methodists. But Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield was clearly Baptist, as were at least some of the Chesterfield ROPERs. * * Samuel ROPER was enumerated in both the 1800 and 1810 Census residing in Edgefield: Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] Samuel ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] In 1800, this Samuel ROPER is shown to be age 16 to 25 (b abt 1775-84). In 1810, this Samuel ROPER is shown to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1766-84). The inference from the 1800 is within the latter range and is constraining if the representations in the Census are TRUE. Thus, Samuel ROPER, son of Willaim ROPER, seems to be b abt 1775-84. In 1800, the sole female residing within Samuel ROPER's household is shown to be age 16 to 25 (b abt 1775-84). There are no children in this household in 1800, suggesting a possibly recent marriage. * Samuel's first wife seems to have died on 01 Sep 1814. Samuel ROPER seems to have died on 02 Mar 1820, after first remarrying. See: "Edgefield ROPER Mentions in the Jack RYAN Book" (9 Mar 2014 4:35PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1859.1/mb.ashx * * It probably bears mention that since the ascription of this Samuel ROPER as William ROPER's son is somewhat speculative, a little further discussion and analysis is probably in order. First, while the ascription that the Samuel ROPER who was enumerated in Edgefield, SC, as the son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC), as opposed to the son of David ROPER or another ROPER, is speculative, the EXISTENCE of a Samuel ROPER, son of William ROPER is NOT. The bill of sale from 1798 seems to clearly show that a William ROPER residing in Edgefield had a son named Samuel ROPER. The Will OMITS mention of son Samuel. Our inferences then are that the William ROPER who died in 1803 is the SAME William ROPER who made the bill of sale and that the Samuel ROPER in the 1800 Census is the SAME Samuel ROPER who was the grantee of that bill of sale. This is the simplest explanation and any other interpretation of the data requires additional complicating facts, for example that the Samuel ROPER resident in 1798 has MOVED AWAY and that another Samuel ROPER has moved in, etc. The ascription seems to be further supported by the fact that there are only THREE OTHER (and possibly TWO OTHER) adult Samuel ROPERs then in America, as discussed above and further elaborated below. I have previously suggested that the Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA) in Charles City County and Chesterfield would have been born before 1761 and possibly earlier. IF the ascription of William ROPER (d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) as the SON of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN is correct, this this William ROPER was born 26 Jun 1753 and it would be an impossibility for this William ROPER to be the father of Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA). Since we KNOW that Shadrack ROPER also had a son named Samuel, there would seem to exist the bare possibility that Samuel ROPER, Jr., of Powhatan/Chesterfield could have migrated to Edgefield and might be the Samuel ROPER shown within the Edgefield Census in 1800 and 1810. However, similarly, Samuel ROPER, Jr. (b abt 1755-63), Shadrack ROPER's son would be more a contemporary of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) than someone born a generation later. Since Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, could NOT have been BOTH Shadrach ROPER's son AND William ROPER's son, the dates of birth are more significant in respect of comparison with the Census data for consistency. Since the Census data for Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, shows him to have been born abt 1775-84, this seems to EXCLUDE the possibility that Samuel ROPER, Jr. migrated from Chesterfield about 1798 and is the Samuel ROPER enumerated in the Census in Edgefield in 1800 and 1810. The Census data as to this Samuel ROPER's age is further supported by both the age of the wife in the 1800 Census and the absence of children from the hosuehold. The 1800 household gives the appearance of a newly married young couple, quite consistent with the father setting up the son with the incidents of his own household upon his marriage. I believe that we can reasonably describe Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, as Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84, d 02 Mar 1820), son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC). I will further elaborate on this Samuel ROPER in a separate topical post. * * * SUMMARY During the immediate post-Revolutionary period there seem to have been at least three and probably FOUR unique adult Samuel ROPERs in America. These were: Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA), of Charles City/Chesterfield [Father UNKNOWN] Samuel ROPER (, "Jr.") (b abt 1755-63), of Powhatan/Chesterfild, son of Shadrach ROPER. Samuel ROPER, son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC) Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84, d 02 Mar 1820), son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) * * * I want to briefly elaborate on Samuel ROPER, son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC), a little further and discuss the bare possibility that Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA) could actually be David ROPER's missing son. In discussing the other Samuel ROPERs, I was able to draw on at least a little priamry evidence to support a sketch of each. But other than mention as a legatee receiving a payment in respect of his father's estate abt 1802, suggesting that he was then at least ALIVE, there is very little more that is directly known about this Samuel ROPER. There is, however, a little more that is known about this Samuel ROPER's immediate family which can further inform our inquiry and understanding. I discuss, analyze and speculate a little about David ROPER's family in my recent post: "Combining the Extant Probate Information for David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) and William ROPER (d bef Aug 1810 - SC)" (7 Mar 2014 9:34PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/516.1/mb.ashx Within this post, I speculate that the order in which legatees were named might be indicative of birth order. At the conclusion of that post, I give this assessment as the the idenntity and ages of David ROPER's children: "Overall, in my view, the Census data, taken together with the probate data seems to support these children of David ROPER: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-76) John ROPER (b abt 1766-84) David ROPER Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84) William ROPER (d abt 21 Jul 1810) Sarah ROPER (b 1775-84) Daniel ROPER (b abt 1885-90) (youngest minor son, age 10 to 15)" Later, I discovered very specific information identifying the precies date of birth and date of death of Daniel ROPER (b 22 Mar 1785, d 17 Jul 1819 - Edgefield, SC), which was precisely consistent with my inferences taken from the Census records. Although Daniel ROPER is NOT expressly named as a legatee, he WAS a minor at David ROPER's death and this would explain the double share paid to John ROPER. This also seems to fix the year of birth of the YOUNGEST of David ROPER's children. Similarly, after further study, I determined that David ROPER's son Benjamin ROPER was likely to be the Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC) mentioned in a death notice in the Edgefield Advertiser on October 29, 1845: "Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC)" (7 Mar 2014 10:38PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/516.1.1/mb.ashx * Thus, to the extent that my original inference that the legacies paid were listed in birth order (except for Administrator Benjamin ROPER) is correct, this would seem to suggest that David ROPER's children were born between 1767 and 1785. While I think that this is probably a CORRECT inference, I also want to recognize the bare possibility that the sequence of the children and the year of birth of the first child might NOT be correct. For example, the legacies might simply be listed in the chronological ORDER PAID or some other basis, even random. If the ascription of David ROPER (d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC) as the son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN is CORRECT, and I think it IS, then this David ROPER was born b 29 Jun 1742. Benjamin ROPER would have been born when David ROPER was age 25. If David ROPER married somewhat younger, perhaps at age 20 or 21, he certainly could have had a son born abt 1762-3. Marriage even earlier is also possible. Thus, it seems to me that we CANNOT completely exclude the possibility that David ROPER could have been the father of Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA). While I am NOT suggesting this as an ascription, I think that a plausible, but tenuous case could be made supporting such a relationship. Therefore, I want to simply call attention to some of the evidence that might support this conclusion, leaving the researcher to further investigate and to draw their own conclusions. My first argument is the complete ABSENCE of any trace of David ROPER's son Samuel. He MUST have been living at the date of the legacy in 1803. But he doesn't seem to appear in the 1800 Census elsewhere. This seems to present three possibilities. First, Samuel might be living in a place where the Census returns for 1800 were unavailable or LOST (e.g. Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi Territory, etc.). He seems NOT to be heading a household in North Carolina or South Carolina which were fully enumerated in the 1800 Census, at least not as a head of household. (As shown above, actually inspecting the extant ANNUAL Tax Lists for Virginia can give an exceptionally good clarity both on the migration of a household and the coming of age of the sons. It is for this reason that it is absolutely CRITICAL to inspect and transcribe EVERY TAX ANNUAL LIST in Virginia where ROPERs are known to have resided. If Samuel ROPER was residing in Virginia, he may still be FOUND by an inspection of tax lists. There are also extant Tax Lists in other places including North Carolina and the frontier areas. Too often, lazy researchers look no further than the ABSTRACTS of these lists, which are intended SOLELY AS A FINDING AID for the original records.) Second, Samuel might have residing in a household headed by another ROPER, a relative or even some other unrelated family and be simply included in their Census count. While this might explain the omission in 1800, it hardly explains the omission in 1810, if Samuel was then still living. Given that Benjamin ROPER was already age 33 by the 1800 Census, it is even plausible that Samuel ROPER could have been old enough to head his own household in 1790. Why isn't Samuel shown in the Census? Since David ROPER, William ROPER and Benjamin ROPER seem to have migrated from Brunswick, Virginia, to Edgefield, SC, the LOGICAL thing to do is to CHECK THE BRUNSWICK TAX LISTS FOR EVERY YEAR FROM 1782 TO 1810. This is how REAL GENEALOGISTS investigate relationships and make ascriptions. This is tedious and time consuming, but it WORKS. What doesn't work is to simply GUESS or MAKE UP THE MISSING DATA. The third possibility is that we have ONE Samuel ROPER TOO MANY and that the data can be reconciled by recognizing that one of the OTHER three Samuel ROPER's is David ROPER's son. We have three possible candidates, but TWO are already ascribed as sons of Shadrach ROPER and William ROPER, respectively. The third is the UNASCRIBED Samuel ROPER (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA), whose father is NOT identified. This Samuel ROPER has dates that are CLOSE TO, but NOT overlapping with the years we think are plausible as to David ROPER's first son (1762-3). If we STRETCH the date ranges a little, ASSUMING that David ROPER married YOUNG and had a son at age 17-18 and/or that Samuel ROPER was NOT YET age 21 when first shown in the Charles City County Tax Lists, we could reconcile the possibility that David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC) might be Samuel ROPER's (b bef 1761, d bef 10 Feb 1812 - Chesterfield, VA) father. Were this the ONLY argument, I wouldn't even mention this possibility. But there are a couple of other arguments which I believe raise the possibility at least high enough NOT to completely reject it absent further investigation. Secondly, UNLESS I MISSED SOMETHING or my NOTES ARE WRONG, my records show that BOTH Samuel ROPER and Samuel ROPER, Jr., DISAPPEAR from the Chesterfield County, Virginia Tax List during 1803. WHY is that significant or important? Realize that in a very short space of time Charles ROPER (d abt 1801), David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC), William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) each died in Edgefield, leaving widows and families. IF Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield WAS the SON of David ROPER, is it REASONABLE to think that he MIGHT travel to Edgefield to assist his widowed mother? It is LESS CLEAR why Samuel ROPER, Jr., might also go along. But to the extent that he is a cousin and also related to David, William or Charles ROPER, through his father Shadrach, accompanying Samuel ROPER, possibly his uncle or cousin, wouldn't be an unreasonable thing to do either. Again, I recognize that this is thin evidence for an ascription. But it seems to me that the death of a parent and widowing of a mother and aunt(s) would be a reason to LEAVE Chesterfield in 1803. While the omission of data for that year may be simply a coincidence, I do NOT think that the possibility of a deliberate departure from Chesterfield can be overlooked. Third, my notes show that amongst the Inventory of Samuel ROPER, of Chesterfield, was a "Family Bible" and a "History Virginia Baptists". Realize that this is a DIFFERENT BOOK than the Book subscribed by Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, who puchased a copy of the book "A General History of the Baptist Denomination in America, Vol 2," by David BENEDICT (Boston: Manning & Loring, 1813). Moreover, the Samuel ROPER who purchased this book seems to be the KNOWN Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84, d 02 Mar 1820), son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC), rather than the MISSING Samuel ROPER (b 1766-84), son of David. The book in the possession of Samuel ROPER would seem to be the work more properly entitled "A History of the Rise and Progress of the Baptists in Virginia", By Robert Baylor Semple, first published in 1809, just two years before the death of Samule ROPER, Sr., of Chesterfield. A republication of this work from 1894 is online and it gives a sketch of the Powhatan Baptist Association on pages 264-5. At the end of the sketch Rev. SEMPLE explains: "Their number is no less that fourteen, viz.: John and James Dupuy, Edward Maxey, George Smith, George Stoval Smith, Lewis Chadoin, B. Watkins, Noah Lacy, Thomas La Fon, Isaac Lookado, Josiah Gayle, John Wooldridge, William Rousee and Samuel Roper." http://books.google.com/books?id=t6RhTC8ziQQC&dq="Samuel Roper" baptist&pg=PA264#v=onepage&q&f=false Note that this sketch is written AFTER Samuel ROPER, Jr. seems to have departed from Chesterfield County. It bears noting that Chesterfield County is immedaitely adjacent to Powhatan County and the Powhatan Church was said to be located in the Eastern section of the county, in the vicinity of what would later be the Powhatan station on the Richmond and Danville railroad. But GIVEN that MUCH of the Charles ROPER family is Methodist, here we have a Samuel ROPER KNOWN to be Baptist in Chesterfield and two closely allied sons of Charles ROPER -- David and William -- who migrate together from Brunswick, VA, where they seemed ot live adjacently, to Edgefield, SC. David ROPER's son Benjamin has married his first cousin, William ROPER's daughter. Samuel ROPER, of Edgefield is Baptist and purchases Baptist histories. Samuel of Chesterfield is Baptist, attends the Powhatan Church and also purchases Baptist histories. David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d abt 1802 - Edgefield, SC) MIGHT HAVE BEEN the Rev. David ROPER shown in the 1790 Census for Rutherford, NC. MIGHT these ROPERs be literate and INTERESTED in Baptist History? I do NOT want to press this argument beyond the point of strain. In my view, the AGES seem slightly incompatible with an ascription that Samuel ROPER is the son of David ROPER. But I believe that the case to be made is FAR STRONGER than that asserted by other researchers in support of speculative ascriptions. More than anything else, the bare possibility also underscores another fundamental of family history research. You do NOT get the names of books of the full inventories of estates by looking at probate ABSTRACTS. For this, one must find, PULL, read and transcribe the original primary records! ROPER family history will REMAIN stagnant in the cesspool of fraudulent and errornoeus information UNTIL researchers recognize that genealogy is NEVER actually advanced by simply COPYING and RE-POSTING the speculative or fraudulent ascriptions of others, based upon abstracted records. If you have an UNSUPPORTED ascription in your family history, particuarly one culled from the notoriously unreliable ROPER Family History Database, you need to DELETE the relationship and get to work doing the basic research to find out the CORRECT ascription! * * * See also my earlier post within the thread discussion Susannah ROPER's Powhatan Will: "Samuel ROPER (b abt 1772, d Feb 1820 - Edgefield, SC)" (12 Sep 2010 4:39PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1666.2/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>