This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1921/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Jemima ROPER is known to have married John YATES on 08 Mar 1779. See: "North Carolina, County Marriages, 1762-1979 ," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XF9X-9QZ : accessed 06 Jun 2014), John Yeats and Jemima Ropper, 08 Mar 1779; citing Caswell, North Carolina, United States; FHL microfilm 000478488. * * * * * Within Jemima YATES' Revolutionary War Pension Application, the date of her husband John YATES' death is expressly given as 16 Dec 1835. John YATES is shown to have served within the Company of Captain HARGROVE. A certified copy of the Caswell County marriage bond of John YATES and Jemima ROPER appears within the pension file. It shows the date of the marriage bond to be 08 Mar 1779 and is signed (by MARK) by John YATES and James ROPER. John YATES testified in open court in Wilkes County on 04 Nov 1834 in support of his pension application. He stated that he was then age 79 (b abt 1755). I am only briefly abstracting John YATES Pension Application, which is one of the richest primary documents I have seen in terms of its description of his wartime service. John YATES volunteered to serve with a company commanded by Captain Francis HARGROVE and Lieutenant Lewis DeMOSS to protect settlements in what was then Ashe County and later became Wilkes County, NC. HARGROVE's Company later was commanded to join with the forces of Gen. Griffith RUTHERFORD for a campaign against the Indians to the West of the Blue Ridge Mountains. [This is really fascinating reading and any descendant of John YATES who fails to avail themselves of the PRIMARY DOCUMENTS is cheating themselves of their rich family heritage!] John YATES volunteered a second time and served under the command of Captain Benjamin CLEVELAND. John YATES seems to have volunteered for a third tour under the command of Captain David VIARS?? at Wilkes Court House in 1780. "This declarant was born in the County of Pittsylvania in the State of Virginia in the month of March 1754 as he was informed by his mother, but has no record of his age, nor never had. He was living in Surry County now Wilkes North Carolina when he was called into service, and has continued to live in the same county ever since." After John YATES' mark, there is the following additional written interlineation: "Add under his signature that his widow states she was married to him 2 or 3 years prior to the Battle of Kings Mountain in Orange County Virginia in a short time moved to North Carolina. John Yates Died December 16, 1835." John YATES' application was further supported by the depositions of Moses WATERS (who seems to have served with YATES under Captain HARGROVE), David LAWS (who served with YATES under Captain CLEVELAND), and William VIARS?? (who served with YATES under Captain David VIARS??). Thomas FLETCHER, a clergyman (denomination not shown) also attested to John YATES' character. Jemima Roper YATES appeared in Wilkes County Court on 18 May 1841 in support of her own widow's application. She then stated that she was "eighty two or three years of age, being as near as she can recollect". "She further declared that she was married to the said John YATES some two or three years before the battle of Kings Mountain in Orange County Virginia and removed a short time after their marriage to North Carolina where she has remained ever since. She further states that her husband John YATES died in the month of December 1825, and that she has remained a widow ever since that period as will more fully appear by reference to the proof hereto annexed. She further declared that she has lost her sight, and is so old and infirm that she cannot possibly go to the Court house; neither has she been able for some years to leave her house." Jemima signed her declaration with her mark. >From what I garner from the Pension file, Jemima YATES' pension wasn't granted immediately due to doubt about the fact of her marriage. This, in turn, is probably owing to her assertion that she was married in Orange County, VIRGINIA. The extant Caswell County, North Carolina, marriage bond obtained by John YATES with support of bondsman James ROPER, may reflect that John YATES was already resident in North Carolina, while Jemima was then still residing in VIRGINIA. The marriage may have taken place in Virginia at the bride's home or place of worship rather than in Caswell County, North Carolina, with the bride and groom oblivious to the distinction of the state and county boundaries. Since Orange County, Virginia, is well to the North, Jemima's testimony as to where the marriage took place may also simply reflect poor appreciation of geography. Caswell County was created out of Orange County, North Carolina. Pittsylvania County was created out of Halifax County, Virginia. ROPERs seem to have resided in Halifax County and also in Caswell County, with the Caswell presence on Rattlesnake Creek, a tributary of the Dan River, which flows near the VA-NC state border and crosses the state border more than once. Moreover, Jemima tells us she "removed a short time after their marriage to North Carolina where she has remained ever since." John YATES testified "He was living in Surry County now Wilkes North Carolina when he was called into service." But John YATES was first called to service in 1776. Thus, he seems to have been ALREADY living in Surrey, later Wilkes County, PRIOR to his marriage to Jemima and for Jemima, the move to North Carolina was her relocation WELL AWAY from where she grew up near the Dan River to the headwaters of the Yadkin River in Wilkes County, NC. * * * * * John YATES is shown within a list of names of heads of families in Brown's District, Wilkes County, in 1787, showing that John YATES household consisted of ONE (1) White Males age 21 to 60, FOUR (4) White Males Under age 21 OR over 60 and TWO (2) White Females. John YATES' growing family is reflected in the 1790 Census returns, where he is enumerated residing within the Third Company in Wilkes County, North Carolina. John YATES: 1 - 4 - 3 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1790] See: "United States Census, 1790," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHKB-5FM : accessed 06 Jun 2014), Jno Yates, Not Stated, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1790 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 152, line 30924, NARA microfilm publication M637, roll 7, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 00095. A Matt FRANCIS and a William FRANCIS are also enumerated on this page, with Matt immediately preceding John YATES and William just two records away from John YATES. Also enumerated on this same Census page is a second John YATES, as well as a William YATES and a James YATES. There are several members of the BROWN, JACKSON and HAYS families in this Company, as well. George McNEEL Robt BINGHAM Ben SMITH Peter GWIN Matt FRANCIS Jno YATES: 1 - 4 - 3 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1790] Elias PINCER Wm. FRANCIS Andw. BAKER Jas. ROBERTS Phil CHURCH Amos CHURCH * * * In 1800, the Wilkes Census returns are quasi alphabetical, so no proximity information is implied in the compilation. There are again several YATES households. These include: John YATES: 0 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 2 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1800] William YATES: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1800] John YATES: 2 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 -- 3 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1800] William YATES: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1800] Richard YATES: 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1800] See: "United States Census, 1800," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHRW-6Y2 : accessed 06 Jun 2014), John Yates, Morgan, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1800 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 69, NARA microfilm publication M32, roll 33, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 337909. John YATES is shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1756) in this record. By contrast, the eldest female in the household is shown to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-74). * * * John YATES is again enumerated in Wilkes County in 1810: John YATES: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 -- 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 [Wilkes, NC 1810] See: "United States Census, 1810," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XH2V-ZHS : accessed 06 Jun 2014), John Yates, Wilkesborough, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1810 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 893, line 1030, NARA microfilm publication M252, roll 43, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0337916. In the immediately following record is a Hugh YATES. (Hugh YATES is enumerated in the 1850 Census in Wilkes, NC, at age 72.) Hugh YATES: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1810] John YATES is shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1766) in this record, as is the eldest female in the household. * * * The correct Census record for John YATES in 1820 is a little less certain. Although there is both a John YATES and a John YATES Jr. in Wilkes County, with the elder of these age 45 or more, the eldest female in the elder John YATES household is shown to be only age 26 to 44. Still, this appears to be the correct record. John YATES: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1820] John YATES Jr: 4 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 4 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1820] See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLX-NQ5 : accessed 06 Jun 2014), John Yates, Not Stated, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 523, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 83, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0162799. This list seems to be quasi alphabetical by FIRST NAME, so proximity may NOT be implied. * * * Curiously, Jemima Roper YATES is shown head of household in the 1830 Census enumerated adjacent to David YATES: David YATES: 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1830] Jemima YATES: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1830] See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHPV-JFV : accessed 06 Jun 2014), Jemima Yates, Not Stated, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 348, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 125, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0018091. This record is curious because John YATES was still living at the date of this record. Jemima YATES is shown to be age 60 to 69 (b abt 1761-70). (Jemima's age appears to be understated.) David YATES owns four slaves. Jemima owns NONE. * * * In 1840, Jemima YATES is enumerated within the Census record of David YATES, but is also expressly shown within the Census as a Revolutionary War Pensioner and her age is given as 85: David YATES: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 [Wilkes, NC 1840] See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHYJ-2XX : accessed 06 Jun 2014), Jemima Yates, Mc Niels District, Wilkes, North Carolina; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 91, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 373, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0018098. * * * In 1850, Jemima YATES is still living and is enumerated at age 95 residing within the household of David YATES, age 58. Jemima is shown to have been born in VIRGINIA. David YATES is shown to have been born in Wilkes County, NC. (County of birth is given for North Carolina born Wilkes County residents.) See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M4BL-T9H : accessed 06 Jun 2014), Jimima Yates in household of David Yates, Wilkes county, Wilkes, North Carolina, United States; citing family 711, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * * * * The single most concrete date we have for Jemima ROPER is the date of her marriage bond on 08 Mar 1779. * * * There are three specific testimonial indications of Jemima's year of birth. Jemima stated in her pension application on 18 May 1841 that she was "eighty two or three years of age, being as near as she can recollect." This would put Jemima's year of birth at 1758-9. Jemima's age was given as 85 in 1840 (b abt 1755) and as 95 (b abt 1755) in 1850 when she was residing with her son David YATES. Even though David ROPER's report was consistent, I am more inclined to find Jemima's 1841 testimony to be more trustworthy. In 1800, John YATES' Census record shows the eldest female to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-74). Then in 1810, Jemima was shown to be age 45 or more (b bef 1766). The 1820 Census record is anomalous. It seems to show Jemima to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-1794), which certainly cannot be correct. In 1830, Jemima seems to have reported her age to the Census Bureau as 60 to 69 (b abt 1761-70). I suspect that she shaved a few years OFF her age that year. Thus we have these various reports: 1800: b abt 1756-74 1810: b bef 1766 1820: b abt 1776-1794 1830: b abt 1761-70 1840: b abt 1755 1850: b abt 1755 In my view, the 1820 report is completely anomalous and can be discarded. I am inclined to place MORE WEIGHT on the 1800 and 1810 Census reports during John YATES' lifetime, which would fix Jemima's age between 1756 and 1766. If Jemima was born in 1755, she would have been about age 24 at her marriage, which was pretty ancient in those days. By contrast, if she was born in 1758 or 1759, she would have been about age 20 or 21, which seems more consistent with Colonial era marriage practices. Since the age Jemima gave under oath in 1841 is consistent with the 1800 and 1810 Census reports, very close to what was reported in 1830 and more consistent with common ages of females at marriage, I believe that the 1758-9 year of birth would be the best estimate. Although I have shown a date of death for Jemima, this date is from a secondary source and I do NOT know of any primary source confirming this date. However, this date seems credible and realistic given Jemima's age and I doubt we are likely to find a much better date. It should be noted that Jemima Roper YATES' 1850 Census record identifies her place of birth as VIRGINIA rather than North Carolina. I do NOT believe that this should be dismissed lightly. Taken together with Jemima's testimony that she relocated to North Carolina AFTER her marriage, there is at least some reason to wonder whether she grew up on Rattlesnake Creek or, instead, well within Halifax or another nearby Virginia County. Someone really needs to make a careful inspection of the deed records in Halifax, Pittsylvania and other Virginia counties. ROPERs and YATES may very well have been immediately adjacent in VIRGINIA rather than in North Carolina. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>