This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates, Young, Ewell, Ewel, Yewall Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Your analysis is much more sound in respect of possible alternatives as to David Y. ROPER's middle name: > "William Roper and Kiziah Yates would normally name the first born male child after > the grandfather, David Roper of Caswell, NC. This is the naming pattern that was > followed in the majority of cases in Virginia and the Backcountry. It would also be > natural to honor the grandfather on the mother's side, which in this case would be > to include Yates. > > The Yates family has many connections with the Roper family, starting from Capt. > William Roper transported a William Yates. > > There really aren't that many choices for what the Y can stand for. By far, the three > most common surnames of persons in Britain today that start with a Y are Young > (abt. 132,000), Yates (abt. 29,000), and York (abt. 3100), or their variants Younge, > Yeats, Yorke, etc. Other less common names are like Yardley, Yarwood, and > Yeoman." I AGREE that it would NOT be unreasonable for a parent to name a child to include the surname of a maternal grandmother. I also AGREE that the YATES family has been closely allied with the ROPER family since arrival in the United States and would add that this alliance seems to date from at least the betrayal and capture of Father Edmund CAMPION at Lyford Grange. But you are beginning with the ASSUMPTION that the Maury or Giles ROPERs are descended from William ROPER and Keziah YATES and then, based upon this ex ante conclusion then reasoning that the "Y" must mean "Yates". Your own statistics would seem to show that it is FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY that "Y" stood for "Young" rather than for "Yates". Your approach of using incidence of surnames in Britain is NOT unreasonable. But looking within the immediate area is even better. If one looks at the 1820 Census for Giles County, TN, there are TWO YATES households and NINE YOUNG households. In Maury, TN, there are TWO YATES households and TWO YOUNG households in 1820. By contrast, in Caswell County, NC, there were TWO YATES households and ZERO YOUNG households. Thus, if it was KNOWN that David Y. ROPER was born in Caswell, NC, then this might support a strong inference that it was MORE LIKELY that the "Y. stood for "Yates" rather than "Young". On the other hand, in Lincoln, NC, where the ABERNATHYs apparently were seated prior to migration to Tennessee, there are ZERO YATES households and TWO YOUNG households. Thus if we KNEW that David Y. ROPER's middle name was "Yates", then this would make a connection to Caswell MORE LIKELY. If we knew that David Y. ROPER's middle name was "Young", then this might enhance the probability that this David came from a place richer in YOUNG households. But if we INVENT the middle name of "Yates" this invented name tells us NOTHING about the likely point of origin of David Y. ROPER in the prior generation or Census. INVENTING middle names proves ONLY that the genealogist is DISHONEST and that their work cannot be trusted! * Moreover, while the bare probabilities might be fairly derived from a distribution of names within a population, the CONDITIONAL PROBABILITY is going to be DIFFERENT. What is the CONDITIONAL PROBABILITY that "Y" stands for YATES given that in subsequent generations these families had descendants with given and middle names starting with a "Y" including "Yewell" and "Yancy"? It is hard to assess this conditional probability with any accuracy, but it is fair to say that the presence of certain names within the family in subsequent generations ALTERS and enhances the probability that a particular name is present in the generation under study. Probably more importantly, the ABERNATHY family -- the family of the wife of David Y. ROPER -- believes that Dionysia Abernathy ROPER's brother was named John Young ABERNATHY (b 27 Nov 1798 - NC, d 29 Oct 1849 - Giles, TN). That ascription might or might not be correct. But SUPPOSING that it WAS correct and further supposing that the ABERNATHY and ROPER families migrated together in trace, how does that ALTER the probability that the "Y." in David Y. ROPER stands for "Yates"? David Y. ROPER is KNOWN to have married Dionysia ABERNATHY, whose brother's middle initial was KNOWN TO BE "Y". The assertion that this David was related to William ROPER and Keziah YATES is BARE speculation supported by NO FACTS AT ALL. It is further KNOWN that a Ewel ROPER served in the Tennessee militia in Blount County, further upstream on the Tennessee River from Giles County and "Ewel" seems to have later been spelled "Yewall". Thus Ewel is closer both in TIME and geographically than "Yates", and "Yewall" appears in these families in subsequent generations. While "Yewall" is a very RARE name compared to either YOUNG or YATES, it is KNOWN to be present in the family. That ROPERs had a middle initial "Y" is NO PROOF of a relationship to William ROPER and Keziah YATES absent some actual evidence that the given name was "Yates" rather than something else starting with a "Y". Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>