This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.4.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Thank you so much for sharing the fulsome secondary accounts as to the militia service of John C. ROPER (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO), as reflected in his widow's pension application! For the benefit of yourself and others interested in the Kentucky militia service of ROPER ancestors, I wanted to share some additional thoughts and insight into both the nature of militia service and the completeness of the extant militia rolls which may further inform and understanding and appreciation of John C. ROPER's War of 1812 service. * First, it is important to understand that service in militias in that era tended to be mandatory. While a survey of the precise statutes then in effect would be more instructive, a quick look at provisions in the Kentucky Constitutions gives some insight. Each of the following is taken from "History and texts of the three constitutions of Kentucky", by Bennett Henderson Young (Louisville: Courier-Journal Job Printing Company, 1890). First Constitution of Kentucky (1792) "Article VI ... Sec. 2. The free men of this Commonwealth shall be armed and disciplined for its defense. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear arms shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal service." [at page 25] http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA25#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * * Second Constitution of Kentucky (1799) "Article III Concerning the Executive Department ... Sec. 28. The freemen of this Commonwealth (negroes, mulattoes and Indians excepted) shall be armed and disciplined for its defense. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear arms shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal service." [at page 44] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA44#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * "Article VI General Provisions ... Sec. 11. All civil officers for the Commonwealth at large shall reside within the State, and all district, county or town officers within their respective districts, counties or towns (trustees of towns excepted), and shall keep their respective offices at such places therein as may be required by law; and all militia officers shall reside in the bounds of the division, brigade, regiment, battalion, or company to which they may severally belong." [at page 49] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA49#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * * Third Constitution of Kentucky (1850) "Article VII Concerning the Militia Sec. 1. The militia of this Commonwealth shall consist of all free, able-bodied male persons (negroes, mulattoes and Indians excepted), resident in the same, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, except such persons as now are, or hereafter may be, exempted by the laws of the United States or of this State; but those who belong to religious societies, whose tenants forbid them to carry arms, shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal services." [at page 78] http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA78#v=onepage&q&f=false * * * Although the more explicit provisions of the Constitution of 1850 were NOT in effect at the date of the War of 1812, I suspect that the actual statutes in effect under the Constitution of 1799 probably closely mirrored what was later memorialized in the later Constitution. Basically, the militia consisted of ALL able bodied adult males EXCEPT for those exempted by religious belief (e.g. Quakers) or some other statutory exemption. Other provisions of these Constitutions and statutes provided for the election of militia officers by the men of each militia. As shown, the 1799 Constitution also REQUIRED that militia officers be from the geographic area from which the unit was drawn. Thus, if one KNOWS the location of the Captain, Lieutenants and/or Cornet or Ensign, then one can usually fix the geographic location of the Company. >From this, we might garner that John C. ROPER probably DID serve in SOME Kentucky militia unit UNLESS he was still a minor or otherwise exempt by statute. Since John C. ROPER turned age 18 in 1814, it seems plausible and even likely that he might not have served in the earlier campaigns of the War of 1812, but that he would have been required to serve near the end of the War. * * * A second principle that probably bears mention is that since regular militia service was mandatory and service was UNPAID, UNLESS and EXCEPT called into actual active service for a state, in the earliest years NO Rolls were usually kept AT ALL except when militia men were mustered IN or OUT of active service for which pay was merited and earned. This was the ancient equivalent to modern state National Guard Service. A militiaman was a member of his unit. When called to active duty, he was "mustered in" and a Roll was taken as to the muster. At the conclusion of his service, he was "mustered out." Thus, for any period of active service, a soldier might appear on both the Muster Roll when mustered into service or when Mustered Out (released from) service. Since not all Muster Rolls service, a soldier might appear on one or both Rolls. A soldier Mustered In with the rest of the company might be released early due to some serious illness, injury, wound or incapacity, which might very well have been noted in an Orderly Book for the Company, which doesn't survive to the present time. Or a militiaman might have enlisted after the original must and similarly been noted in the Orderly Book for the Company, etc. Thus, NOT every member of a company would be shown on the original muster, nor everyone who served shown on the terminal muster. Every Muster Roll has some element of inherent incompleteness. The omissions were probably the most minimal for terms of service that were very brief and least complete where a company served for an extended period of time. Even as today, a Guardsman might be subject to activation and call up with a DIFFERENT COMPANY than his own, if a young man came of age after his County's Company had been mustered and sent away for service in a distant place, a practical approach would be to simply attach him to a newly mustered company in a nearby county, either by his volunteering for that Company OR by some assignment, etc. * * The article I cited in my previous post above also contains some very good insight into the completeness of the of the extant Rolls as they pertain to the regiments. I will simply quote from the article: "There appears to be good evidence that there were several regiments of Kentucky militia in the war, the rolls of which have been lost. For instance, there are still in existence a roll of the First Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen, and of the Third Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen," but there is no roll now in existence of the Second Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen, which would have contained about 500 men. Among the spoils of the battle of the Thames was a British drum which General William Henry Harrison presented to a regiment of Kentucky militia; and that old drum may still be seem in the rooms of the Kentucky State Historical Society, in the new Capitol Building in Frankfort, with the following inscription in guilt letters upon it: "Drum taken at the battle of the Thames and presented to the Forty-second Regiment of Kentucky militia for turning out more volunteers during the late war than any other regiment in Kentucky." Yet there are now in existence the records of only t! hirty-six regiment of Kentucky militia in that war; so it seems that the rolls of at least six regiments have been lost. There appears to have been a system of numbering regiments, but it apparently has not descended to these times." See: http://books.google.com/books?id=UAg8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&ots=zaQa8s_AHJ&pg=RA1-PA50#v=onepage&q&f=false The article continues with an estimate that about five out of six of eligible militia age men in Kentucky probably actually participated in the conflict. Whether that estimate is accurate is beyond the scope of this post, but it seems likely to be about the correct order of magnitude. Thus, it seems MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that John C. ROPER might have served even without the averments within his widow's pension application. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>