This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Raper, Rope Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Within the previous post above, I identified these ROPERs, ROPEs or RAPERs as having served within the Kentucky militias during the War of 1812 / Creek War: KENTUCKY ROPER, John, 1 Rifle Regiment (Allen's), Kentucky Volunteers, Private [Image 627] ROPE, Jesse, 3 Regiment (Allen's) Mounted Kentucky Vols., Private (Original filed under Jesse ROPER) [Image 593] ROPE, Joseph, 3 Regiment (Allen's) Mounted Kentucky Vols., Private (Original filed under Jesse ROPER?) [Image 594] ROPER, Jesse, 3 Regiment (Allen's) Mounted, Kentucky Vols., Private [Image 625] ROPER, William, 17 Reg't (Francesco's) Kentucky Militia, Private (See also Charles THORNTON) [Image 652] ROPER, Johnson's Reg't, Mounted, Kentucky Vols., Major [Image 596] ROPER, James, Johnson's Regiment, Mounted, Kentucky Volunteers, Private (Original filed under James RAPER)[Image 620] * * * One reasonably authoritative secondary reference regarding military service in the War of 1812 in Kentucky is the Report of the Adjutant General of Kentucky entitled "Soldiers of the War of 1812" (Frankfort, KY, E. Polk Johnson, 1891). Of course, this is a compilation based upon extant records then readily available to the State Adjutant General. Consultation of the underlying primary records in the Kentucky State Archives as well as the National Archives is a better means of obtaining understanding and assurance about the facts of military service of these ROPER pioneers. A copy of the Adjutant General's Report is available online at Archive.com: https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/n6/mode/1up Because of the font size of the individual names on the various rosters, Optical Character Recognition of the text on the pages of this book seems incomplete and error prone. If you do a digital search within this book for a ROPER, you will FIND NONE using the current online search feature. I have NOT made an exhaustive search of this entire book. Instead, I used the Index entries from the U.S. Archives shown above, which identified the UNITS in which these ROPERs were shown to have served. I also reviewed information from secondary sources purporting to show that certain ROPERs served in various Kentucky units. As I understood the Index entries from the National Archives, the first entry (John ROPER) describes the First Regiment Kentucky Volunteers commanded by Lt. Col. James ALLEN. The Rosters of this unit seem to appear within the Adjutant General's Report at pages 24 to 33 and 117. No ROPERs seem to appear on these pages. See: https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/24/mode/1up https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/117/mode/1up * The entry for Jesse / Joseph ROPER seems to describe the Third Regiment Mounted Kentucky Volunteers under the Command of Lt. Col. James ALLEN. The rosters seem to appear within the Adjutant General's Report on pages 248 to 255. https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/248/mode/1up * The entry for William ROPER seems to describe service in Francesco's Regiment of Kentucky Militia commanded by Lt. Col. John FRANCESCO. The rosters seem to appear within the Adjutant General's Report on pages 262 to 273. See: https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/262/mode/1up * The last two entries seem to describe service within the Regiment of Kentucky Mounted Infantry under the Command of Col. Richard M. JOHNSON. The Rosters of this unit seem to appear within the Adjutant General's Report at pages 220 to 239. https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/220/mode/1up Within this Roll there appears a James ROPER shown to have served under the command of Captain Samuel R. COMBS' Company from May 20, 1813, to November 19, 1813 (see page 229). https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/229/mode/1up * * * I also found these ROPERs within "Soldiers of the War of 1812" in unexpected places in respect of the Index entries from teh National Archives: Jesse ROPER, Captain Mason SINGLETON's Company, Kentucky Mounted Voilunteers (at page 122). https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/122/mode/1up * * A William ROPER is shown on a list of soldiers discharged from the 7th Regiment, U.S. Infantry, with the discharge on November 23, 1813 (at page 327): https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/327/mode/1up No Company is given. 7th Regiment was under the command of Col. William RUSSELL. * * John ROPERS is shown to have served within Captain Carey NICHOLAS' Company, 7th Regiment, U.S. Infantry (at page 338). He is shown to have enlisted for a six month term from January 1, 1814, to June 30, 1814. He is also shown as having deserted on January 26, 1814. https://archive.org/stream/kentuckysoldier00reporich#page/338/mode/1up * * * * * JESSE ROPER (b 26 Aug 1781 - Powhatan, VA, d 03 Sep 1861 - Howard, MO) One of the least ambiguous entries is that of Jesse ROPER. Jesse ROPER is enumerated in the 1810 Census for Jessamine County, Kentucky. See: "United States Census, 1810," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XH2P-7FQ : accessed 01 Apr 2014), Jesse Roper, Not Stated, Jessamine, Kentucky; citing "1810 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 56, line 2260, NARA microfilm publication M252, roll 7, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0181352. Captain Mason SINGLETON is also shown to have resided in Jessamine County, Kentucky, in both the 1810 and 1820 Census enumeration. There is also a Benjamin WILLIAMS (shown as a Lieutenant on the Roster) enumerated in Jessamine County inteh 1810 Census. There seems to be little doubt that this unit was drawn from Jessamine County or that the Jesse ROPER who served was the Jesse ROPER enumerated in the 1810 Census enumeration. This is Jesse ROPER (b 26 Aug 1781 - Powhatan, VA, d 03 Sep 1861 - Howard, MO), son of Shadrach ROPER (d bef 16 Dec 1784 - Powhatan, VA). This Jesse lived in Powhatan, VA, Jessamine, KY, and Howard, MO. * * * WILLIAM ROPER The identity of the William ROPER shown in either 17 Reg't (Francesco's) Kentucky Militia or the 7th Regiment U.S. Infantry is less clear. As further shown below, the 7th Regiment, U.S. Infantry was a regular U.S. Army unit under the command of Col. William RUSSELL (06 Mar 1758 - 03 Jul 1825) drawing recruits from Kentucky. There are only TWO William ROPERs enumerated in the U.S. Census in Kentucky before 1850. One of these was Judge William P. ROPER. The other is William ROPER, of Cynthiana, Harrison County, Kentucky, who is shown in the 1820, 1830 and 1840 Censuses. Separately, there was a William RAPER/RAPIER in Nelson County, Kentucky. It seems inconceivable that William P. ROPER, a member of the Kentucky state legislature and later a State Senator and a Judge, would have deserted. For that matter, it seems very unlikely that he would have served as a private in the Creek War after having already served several terms in the Kentucky legislature. William P. ROPER is probably the Major ROPER shown to have served in Johnson's Reg't, Mounted, Kentucky Vols. Of all the Kentucky ROPERs he was almost certainly the most wealthy and socially prominent. See my post: "Judge William P. ROPER (b 1776-80 - VA, d 18 Aug 1833 - Fleming, KY)" (20 Mar 2014 8:10AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1873/mb.ashx * The following is taken from "THE ARMY OF THE UNITED STATES HISTORICAL SKETCHES OF STAFF AND LINE WITH PORTRAITS OF GENERALS-IN-CHIEF" (NY: Maynard, Merrill & Co., 1896): "[498] THE SEVENTH REGIMENT OF INFANTRY. By LIEUTENANT A. B. JOHNSON, 7TH U. S. INFANTRY. The Seventh U. S. Infantry was organized under the act of Congress approved July 16, 1798, with William Bently as Lieutenant Colonel Commandant. After an existence of less than two years, the regiment was honorably mustered out of the service on the 15th of June, 1800, under the provisions of an Act approved May 4, 1800. The regiment was again organized on the 3d of May, 1808, under the act of Congress approved April 12, 1808, with William Russell as colonel. The first engagement in which any part of the regiment participated, and which is the first battle inscribed on its colors, was at Fort Harrison, Ohio, on September 4th and 5th, 1812. On the 3d of September the fort was attacked by a large band of Indians, who set fire to one of the block houses on the 4th, and followed it up with a resolute attack on the fort, which was then commanded by Captain Zachary Taylor, 7th Infantry, continuing the assault the following day, when the little garrison was relieved from its perilous position by the timely arrival of Colonel Russell, 7th Infantry, with a force of 1100 men. This engagement was followed by one at Viller's Plantation on the 23d of December, 1814, in which the regiment was conspicuous for its bravery and was highly complimented for its action under fire. This action was followed by the battle of New Orleans, La., on the 1st, 8th and 9th of January, 1815, in which the British lost 293 killed and 1267 wounded, while the American loss was comparatively small. In the year 1815 the practice of assigning particular states as recruiting districts for the infantry, was discontinued, Kentucky having previously been the district for the Seventh Infantry, as Colorado now is. In the same year the regiment was ordered to Georgia, and its headquarters established at Fort Hawkins, where in accordance with the act of Congress of March 3, 1815, it was consolidated with the 2d, 3d and 44th regiments of infantry to form the present First Infantry; and the 8th, 19th, 36th and 38th were consolidated to form the present Seventh Infantry, its station being changed to Fort Gibson, Arkansas, where it remained for many years. From the Arkansas frontier the regiment was ordered to Florida where it took part in the battle of Fort King, E. Fla., on April 28, 1840; Fort Drane, E. Fla., May 19, 1840; Martin's Point Hammock, E. Fla., December 28, 1840, and Wahoo Swamp, E. Fla., May 17, 1842." See: http://www.history.army.mil/books/R&H/R&H-7IN.htm * * The William ROPER, of Harrison, KY, is enumerated in the 1820 and 1840 Census. See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLR-LTW : accessed 01 Apr 2014), William Roper, Cynthiana, Harrison, Kentucky; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 218, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 23, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0186183. "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHRK-K84 : accessed 01 Apr 2014), William Roper, Cynthiana, Harrison, Kentucky; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 146, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 113, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007827. Curiously, there is also a household headed by Elizabeth ROPER in Harrison, KY, in 1840: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHRK-K8W : accessed 01 Apr 2014), Elizabeth Roper, Cynthiana, Harrison, Kentucky; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 146, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 113, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007827. * * I do NOT see a William ROPER or ANY OTHER ROPER Households in Harrison County, KY, in 1830. It might be a good idea to check the images on this 1830 Census record: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHGP-7CS : accessed 01 Apr 2014), William Peper, Eastern Division, Harrison, Kentucky; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 172, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 37, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007816. * * In 1850, there is a household headed by Elizabeth ROPER, age 63, born in Kentucky, residing in Harrison, KY. This household consisted of: Elizabeth ROPER, F, age 63, born Kentucky John ROPER, M, age 38, born Kentucky Margaret ROPER, F, age 28, born Kentucky Wm ROPER, M, age 23, born Kentucky Albert ROPER, M, age 9, born Kentucky Emma ROPER, F, age 7, born Kentucky Mary ROPER, F, age 5, born Kentucky Sarah HUMBLE, F, age 12, born Kentucky James HUMBLE, M, age 9, born Kentucky Traverse BROWN, M, age 32, born Virginia Ernest ROPER, M, age 0, born Kentucky See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M65W-857 : accessed 01 Apr 2014), Elizabeth Roper, Harrison county, Harrison, Kentucky, United States; citing family 181, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * It appears to me that this is an UNDERSTUDIED ROPER family. The primary records for Harrison County, Kentucky, especially as to deeds, tax lists and probate/court records need to be carefully assessed for ROPER mentions. * * * JOHN ROPER The identity of the John ROPER who is shown to have served within the 7th Regiment U.S. Infantry is also UNCLEAR. Possibly, some further study of extant records within the National Archives might give us some additional insight. There are only TWO John ROPERs enumerated in the U.S. Census for Kentucky from 1790 through 1820. These are the two John ROPERs enumerated in Cumberland, KY, in the 1820 Census. John Roper, Sr.: John Roper, Jr.: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLH-CYT : accessed 03 Apr 2014), John Roper Senior, Paoli, Cumberland, Kentucky; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 158, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 19, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0186179. "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLH-CBM : accessed 03 Apr 2014), John Roper Junior, Paoli, Cumberland, Kentucky; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 158, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 19, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0186179. NOTE: The Census information abstracted for Cumberland County ROPERs on Dave ROPER's "Roper Families in Kentucky" page as shown below is ERRONEOUS (at 05 Apr 2014): John Roper, Sr. 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 158 John Roper, Jr. 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 158 See: http://www.roperld.com/rky1718.htm * Researcher Frank BATCHELOR has theorized within a new recent thread that the elder of the two John ROPERs in Cumberland was the John Roper (b. bef. 1756) who seems to have migrated from Halifax, Virginia, to Caswell, NC: "John Roper, b. bef. 1756; d. aft. 1820, Cumberland, KY" (01 Apr 2014 12:05PM ) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1887/mb.ashx This John ROPER would seem an UNLIKELY candidate to be enlisting in a regular U.S. Army unit on 01 Jan 1814 after age 58. * By contrast, the younger John ROPER, of Cumberland, shown in Frank's posts to be the John C. ROPER (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO), later found residing in Dallas County, Missouri, is about the right age to have been the John ROPER shown in 7th Regiment U.S. Infantry rosters. He would have been age 17 at the 1814 enlistment date. John C. ROPER's first land grants in Kentucky were on 09 Aug 1821, but as shown above, he was already in Kentucky at the date of the 1820 Census. A more careful study of the places of birth of John C. ROPER's children may fix the date of arrival of this John ROPER in Kentucky, though since he would have been only about age 17 he probably was still unmarried at the date of the militia service. See: "David Roper, b. abt 1778, Halifax, VA; d. bef. 1844, KY or TN" (1 Apr 2014 3:58PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1886/mb.ashx See also: "John C Roper (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO)" (17 Nov 2012 9:00AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1698.3.1.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx "The Two John ROPERs in Cumberland County, KY" (14 Feb 2013 12:27PM) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1775.3/mb.ashx * While the younger John ROPER would seem to be a better candidate, it bears mention that absence of other John ROPERs from the tax records, land records and Census data does NOT preclude a younger John ROPER from being a member of ANY household. For example, another possible candidate is the John ROPER (b abt 1783 - NC), son of Revolutionary War Veteran David ROPER, of Pulaski, who remained within his father's household until after his father's death. This John ROPER is shown for the first time in the 1840 Census and is enumerated again in Pulaski in 1850. See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHTP-SZB : accessed 03 Apr 2014), John Roper, Pulaski, Pulaski, Kentucky; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 302, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 122, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007831. "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M65K-1H6 : accessed 03 Apr 2014), John Roper, Pulaski county, part of, Pulaski, Kentucky, United States; citing family 439, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * It should probably be noted that there were some very serious problems during the War of 1812 paying and provisioning the men, especially in the Tennessee militia. Abandonment of the war effort by men within several units, in part due to lack of support from the state leadership is described in many historical accounts as a "mutiny". Without a careful assessment of the location and activities of the unit, it is hard to place the asserted "desertion" in proper context, though this Veteran of more than two decades of military service does not want to come across as overly apologetic for John ROPER's desertion. I am only suggesting that the abstracted record tells far less than a complete story and that the underlying primary records need to be carefully examined and placed in proper historical context. * * * JAMES ROPER/RAPER Identity of the James ROPER or RAPER who served under Captain Samuel COMBS is somewhat ambiguous. There are two Samuel COMBS listed in the 1810 Census for Kentucky, one in Clark County and one in Bardstown, Nelson County, KY, but the Samuel COMBS in Clark County is shown to have middle initial "R." This seems to be the correct Samuel R. COMBS. One of COMBS' lieutenants is shown to be a James COGSWELL. A James COGSWELL is enumerated in North Middletown, Bourban County, Kentucky, in the 1820 Census enumeration. Bourban County is to the immediate North of Clark County. Joseph MAJOR is shown to be First Sergeant of Samuel COMBS' Company. A Joseph MAJOR is enumerated residing in Hopkinsville, Christian County, KY, in 1820. This seems somewhat anomalous, as Christian County is in the extreme Western part of the state. However, there are numerous MAJOR households in other places in the state in 1810, especially in Franklin County, just to the West of Bourban County. I spot checked ten other names shown on the Rosters for Captain COMBS' Comapany against the 1810 and 1820 Census returns, as shown below, with emphasis on names I thought were likely to be reasonably unique: Jesse BAXTER: Clark (1810), Henry (1820) Henry BRAMBLETT: Bourban (1810,1820) John BURNETT: Bourban (1810) [Shown as BARNETT in Census] George COTTON: Woodford (1810); Woodford / Fayette (1820)* Ezekial DUCKWORTH: Montgomery (1810)** Mordecai GIST: Clark (1810) George HAGGIN: NOT FOUND, but there is a David HAGAN shown in Clark County in 1810. William LAMPTON: Madison (1810); Jefferson (1810)*** George McDOWELL: Livingston (1820); Breckinridge (1820) [There are other McDOWELL hosueholds in Fayette, Jessamine and Mercer Counties] John McGUNNIGAL: NOT FOUND John PASLEY: Madison (1820) Bailey SOUTHERLAND: NOT FOUND [There is a Lanty SOUTHERLAN in Madison in 1810] Pleasant SHORT: Clark (1810) Benjamin TALBOT: Harrison (1820); Henderson (1820); Shelby (1820) [There are three other TALBOT households in Clark County in 1810, headed by Samuel, Rodham, and Paul TALBOT] Mordecai WYATT: NOT FOUND [There is a John WYATT household in Clark County in 1810 and four WYATT households in Stoner, Bourban County, KY] * There is a William COTTON household in Clark County, KY, in 1810. ** Montgomery is to the immediate East of Clark County and Southeast of Bourban County *** Madison County is to the immediate South of Clark County * My conclusion is that Captain Samuel R. COMBS' company was draw geographically primarily from Clark County, with some soldiers also from Bourban County as well as adjacent Montgomery, Madison, and Fayette Counties. There were NO ROPER households in ANY of these Counties in either 1810 or 1820. Neither were RAPER households located in any of these places. There WAS seemingly a RAPER household in Nelson County and it is my understanding that extant Tax Lists may show a James RAPER in Nelson. There is also James ROPERS shown in the 1820 Census residing in Buckingham, Nelson County, Kentucky. But there also was apparently a Stephen ROPER shown in early tax lists for Bourban County. It appears to me from the Census records, including the 1850 Census enumeration, that the family seated in Nelson County was unambiguously a RAPER/RAPIER family origianlly from Maryland. Even so, in my view, since Captain COMBS' Company was drawn mostly from Clark and Bourban Counties, the James ROPER/RAPER in Camptain COMBS' Company was MORE LIKELY a ROPER, UNLESS it turns out that Stephen ROPER, of Bourban County, KY, was actually a RAPER. * * * Those with additional information about the War of 1812 militia service of any of these ROPER ancestors are requested and encouraged to share their findings within further Replies in this thread! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>