This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: This thread, seeking to link the Maury County ROPER family to William ROPER and Keziah YATES seems to me to be EXCEPTIONALLY WEAK on facts and analysis. In this post, you state: > "That a William Roper was one of the sons of David Roper of Caswell County, NC, > who married a Sarah, appears to be without question. The L. David Roper database has > this entry: > > Caswell Co. Deeds: H:85. 25 Sep 1792. 50 acres. William Roper of Caswell Co. "for > Love Goodwill & Effection that I bear unto David Roper & Sarah Roper my father & mother" > Land in Caswell on Rattlesnake Creek; land where on said David Roper now lives; "beg. > Edmund Alleys SW corner runing E. 61 poles thence S. with Edward Swans line to my > corner thence W. with Hubberts line to Rattle Snake Creek then down the creek to white > oak Saplin neare the upper part or fence of my plantation thence meare a NE Course to > the first Station". "During their natural life" Test: Edmd. Alley, James Yates William X Roper" Unquestionably, there was a David ROPER who is known to have settled on Rattlesnake Creek in what is now Caswell County, NC, from a very early date. David ROPER is shown in the Orange County records as early as 1757. The original deed for Rattlesnake Creek dates from 1760. Later, there is a record that one David ROPER, of Caswell, NC, sold some land to another David ROPER, of Caswell, NC, in 1762. A Charles City County Court minute entry memorializing the proof of the deed survives. The deed itself no longer seems to exist. The LOCATION of the land is NOT given. One possibility is that the deed reflects land in Charles City County. Another possibility is that a deed for land ELSEWHERE was PROVEN in a Charles City County Court, just a people today use notaries to authenticate a deed. Thus one bare possibility is that this deed was a conveyance of the Rattlesnake Creek property from one David ROPER to another. While you are certainly correct that the early Caswell data is SPARSE, there is more than a little data which FAILS TO SUPPORT and which seems to almost conclusively defeat your analysis and ascription. Moreover, most of the analysis relies on deed abstracts when NO ONE seems to have been willing to do the basic genealogical chose of pulling examining and transcribing the underlying deeds. * We have a deed abstract shown at Dave's NC ROPER Family page: "A:186-20 Jan 1779 224 acres. David Roper to William Roper (both of Caswell Co.). Land in Caswell Co. on both sides of Rattlesnake Creek. [Description identical to that of Orange Co. deed 3:454. Wit: James Bradley & David Cochran. David X Roper" We have the very specific information that William ROPER married a Keziah YATES on 31 Aug 1781 in Caswell County, NC. This seems to show a David ROPER selling land to William ROPER, who seems to have reasonably recently reached majority and is ready to venture out on his own and start a family. The NEXT actual primary mention seems to be the abstracted record showing that "C:1: William Roper to Robert Morroe for 400 lbs 38 acres adjacent David Roper, the tract Morrow has now in his possession. Also signed by Keziah Roper 13 Jan 1784 Wit: Thomas Tarpley, James Bradly." This would seem to show that Keziah ROPER was still living on 13 Jan 1784. The 1790 Census data for Caswell County did NOT survive. Thus, while William ROPER seems to be on a Personal Property Tax List for Caswell, NC, THERE IS NO CENSUS RECORD THAT REFLECTS EITHER THAT KEZIAH IS STILL LIVING OR THAT WILLIAM AND KEZIAH EVER HAD ANY CHILDREN. The next actual record seems to be the record reflected in this Abstract: "H:13: William Roper to James Montgomery for 30 lbs 16 acres and 63 poles on Rattlesnake Creek adj. Roper, Saml Welch. 18 Oct 1791. Wit: Lancelot Johnston." Note that Keziah ROPER is NOT shown to have signed this deed releasing her dower interest in the property. Perhaps the buyer is simply IGNORANT and didn't realize that he wasn't getting good title to the land if Keziah was living. But even the illiterate in those days were rarely stupid enough to take a deed for value that wouldn't have survived a challenge. In fact, in proving the deed, if Keziah was living, the Court would likely have questioned the witnesses as to Keziah's assent before ordering that the deed be recorded. The immediate following year, William ROPER is shown to be the maker of a second deed, abstracted as follows: "H:85: William Roper to David & Sarah Roper 25 Sep 1792" Towards the bottom of Dave's NC ROPER Family page, Dave gives us the following additional abstracted information: "Caswell Co. Deeds: H:85. 25 Sep 1792. 50 acres. William Roper of Caswell Co. "for Love Goodwill & Effection that I bear unto David Roper & Sarah Roper my father & mother" Land in Caswell on Rattlesnake Creek; land where on said David Roper now lives; "beg. Edmund Alleys SW corner runing E. 61 poles thence S. with Edward Swans line to my corner thence W. with Hubberts line to Rattle Snake Creek then down the creek to white oak Saplin neare the upper part or fence of my plantation thence meare a NE Course to the first Station". "During their natural life" Test: Edmd. Alley, James Yates William X Roper" Once again, William ROPER purports to convey land he owns to someone else, but there is NO EXECUTION of the deed by Keziah. THIS SUPPORTS THE RATHER STRONG INFERENCE THAT KEZIAH WAS THEN ALREADY DEAD. THERE IS SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE THAT KEZIAH YATES ROPER WAS LIVING AFTER 13 JAN 1784. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WILLIAM ROPER AND KEZIAH YATES HAD EVEN A SINGLE CHILD, MALE OR FEMALE, THOUGH I SUSPECT THAT THEY PROBABLY HAD A CHILD OR TWO BEFORE KEZIAH'S DEATH AT A YOUNG AGE. * * You next assert: > "After this transfer of property, William Roper disappears from the records of Caswell > County, NC. Where did he go? Although the evidence is scant because of a lack of > historical records, circumstantial evidence suggests he moved to Tennessee." What is the EVIDENCE?? You fail to mention it! Are you asserting that the presence of a William ROPER in Tennessee in 1820 is some evidence that William ROPER, last seen in Caswell in 1792 is the SAME William ROPER who is found in the 1820 Census for Tennessee?? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF THIS? WHERE DID WILLIAM ROPER LIVE DURING THE 28 YEAR PERIOD BEFORE HE REAPPEARS IN THE CENSUS AND WHAT EVIDENCE SUPPORTS SUCH AN ASCRIPTION?? * Now lets stick with "facts" for a moment. William ROPER is KNOWN to have sold land in Caswell, NC, to David and Sarah ROPER. A David ROPER is KNOWN to have DIED in Edgefield, SC, leaving a widow named "Sarah" and a son named William ROPER. That's one hell of a coincidence isn't it? A William ROPER is also KNOWN to have died in Edgefield, SC. * For YEARS, dishonest genealogists have been ascribing various "children" to William ROPER and Keziah YATES even though there has NEVER BEEN A SINGLE PRIMARY RECORD, never a SINGLE MENTION ANYWHERE that would support the existence of even ONE surviving child from this marriage! I will focus on only TWO of the fraudulent ascriptions in this post: David Y. ROPER and Tennessee ROPER. But EVERY CHILD shown in ANY tree or lineage as being born to this couple is FRAUDULENTLY ASCRIBED. I have discussed both David Y. ROPER and Tennessee ROPER in previous posts. David Y. ROPER has been the subject of particularly egregious fraud, because dishonest family historians not only have falsely ascribed him as a son of William ROPER and Keziah YATES, but they have also given this David a middle name (purported to be "Yates") that NEVER APPEARS WITHIN THE RECORDS. Thus, the dishonest first INVENT the evidence that "Y." stands for "Yates". Next, they use the fabricated "evidence" to support the fraudulent ascription. This kind of deceit is pervasive in Dave ROPER's ROPER family History database and in his privately published genealogy. Whenever the data is totally LACKING a "middle name" is INVENTED and then the middle name is used as "proof" of a specious connection to some other generation or branch of the family for which there is NO PRIMARY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Examples of this within these dishonest files are TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION. Even worse, dishonest genealogists ALTERED David Y. ROPER's KNOWN date of death, so that they could push his year of birth forward several years. David Y. ROPER's grave marker shows that he was born BEFORE William ROPER and Keziah YATES married. David Y. ROPER's ancient grave marker is REAL. David Y. ROPER's middle name is INVENTED and his KNOWN year of birth establishes that the ONLY way he could be a child of this couple is if he was born out of wedlock. * Tennessee ROPER is an UNLIKELY candidate to be a son of this couple as he was born AFTER it appears Keziah Yates ROPER was ALREADY DEAD. You posted the extant RICKETTS Family Bible records which shown Tennessee ROPER's precise date of birth. * Every child ascribed to William ROPER and Keziah YATES is not merely "speculatively ascribed", but rather FRAUDULENTLY ASCRIBED, because there is NO EVIDENCE that Keziah Yates ROPER was even living at the dates of birth of the various "children" and others, like David Y. ROPER were born BEFORE the known date of this couple's marriage. This is dishonest ROPER genealogy AT ITS WORST. But these fraudulent ascriptions have been republished SO MANY TIMES, like the totally FICTIONAL "John ROPER Jr." purported to have been born in 1660, who is fraudulently shown to head almost all ROPER families, that this lie told over and over again seems to have gained credibility and widespread acceptance despite not only the complete LACK OF EVIDENCE, but when the extant evidence suggests that the ascription is UNLIKELY TO BE TRUE. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>