This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1886/mb.ashx Message Board Post: David Roper first makes his appearance in a record of his marriage to Nancy Lewis on July 13, 1801in Caswell, NC. His bondsman was Gideon Robertson. As will be demonstrated in another posting, David Roper's father, John Roper, had recently moved from Halifax, VA and purchased 255 acres in 1797 in Caswell, NC, 50 acres of which he then sold to William Yates: "K:104: George Samuel to John Roper of Halifax Co. VA for 200 lbs 255 acres on creek near Ragsdale's old mill. 12 May 1797. Wit: Asa Thomas, James Robertson, Will Thomas." L. David Roper database. "N:133: John Roper to William Yates for 50 lbs 50 acres W side Country Line Cr. at Roper's Spring Br. 13 Nov 1798 Wit: Saml S. Farley, Abner Robinson." L. David Roper database. David Roper, who married Nancy Lewis, moved from Caswell, NC, sometime after his marriage in 1801, and is shown owning land in Cumberland, KY in 1805 (see below). In the 1810 Cumberland, KY Census, we will find a David Roper, age 26-45, living with 3 males 0-9, one female 0-9, one female 10-15, two females 26-45, and one female 45-up. Nancy Lewis would one of the females 26-45. Two of the male children ages 0-9 will turn out to be John A. Roper and George W. Roper, sons of David and Nancy. The other male 0-9 could be a son named David Roper, although I have not located him as yet. There is a 5 generation pattern in this line where each first born child is named after his grandfather, such that we have a John, David, John, David, John naming pattern. The second son is then usually named after the father. The one female 45-up could possibly be a mother-in-law, which would indicate that Nancy's father had died by 1810. In the 1820 Cumberland County, KY Census, there is a David Roper residing in Cumberland County, KY, shown as age 26-45. His presumed wife is also age 26-45. This is consistent with this David Roper being the David Roper, b. abt 1778, Caswell, NC, married to Nancy Lewis. They are shown with 2 male children under 10 (consistent with one of them being Charles J. Roper) and three male children ages 11-16 (two of whom will be John A. Roper and George W. Roper, and one of whom may be a David Roper). There are also two females under 10. The other male under 10 may be Philip L. Roper, who might have been an orphan after his parents died and who may have been taken in by David and Nancy. However, this conclusion is speculation on my part. William Alexander Roper, Jr. first suggested a connection between David Roper, Philip Lawson, and both Charles J. Roper and Philip L. Roper. This is the information he provided: "Philip LAWSON appears to have been the recipient of three very early Kentucky land grants: 03 May 1799: 200 acres 13 Aug 1805: 20 acres 16 Nov 1826: 50 acres The first grant was shown to be in Green County. The latter two are shown to be in Cumberland County. Each of these land grants is shown to be on Sulpher Lick Creek. The last of these was shown to be on the West fork of Sulphur Lick (also Suphur) Creek. That would put the land near here: http://msrmaps.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=16&X=808&Y=5074&W=3 This area is adjacent to the Kentucky - Tennessee boarder. One might very well have crossed the state line several times returning from an errand or going fishing. David ROPER received five Kentucky land grants in Cumberland County: 05 Oct 1805: 30 acres 17 Oct 1805: 25 acres 17 Oct 1805: 15 acres 20 Nov 1805: 93 acres 08 Jun 1816: 50 acres David ROPER's grants were shown to be on the Cumberland River, except for one on Kettle Creek. The Kettle Creek land would have been near here: http://msrmaps.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=14&Z=16&X=198&Y=1266&W=3 This Kettle Creek property would have been about eight miles away from Philip LAWSON's land. The other parcels might have been a little farther or closer depending upon their precise location on the Cumberland River. John C. ROPER received two other grants on the Cumberland River in Monroe County on 09 Aug 1821. Monroe County is adjacent to Cumberland County to the immediate West. This land was probably within ten miles of the Philip LAWSON property. John ROPER received a grant for an additional 100 acres of land on Kettle Creek on 20 Dec 1833. It would seem that David ROPER, John ROPER/John C. ROPER and Philip LAWSON were neighbors in Kentucky. Philip LAWSON seems to have been active in the Sulpher Baptist Church. Philip Lawson's Will was probated in Cumberland County on 24 May 1836. Perhaps it contains some insight into his relationship with the ROPER family. David ROPER is enumerated in the 1810 Census as residing in Burksville, Cumberland County, Kentucky. In 1810, Philip Lawson was residing in Goochland, Virginia. In 1820, both David ROPER and Philip LAWSON are enumerated in Paoli, Cumberland County, Kentucky. Philip LAWSON appears at the very top of Page 18 of the images for Paoli post office. David ROPER appears at mid page in page 17 of the same enumeration. This seems unlikely to be coincidental and is highly suggestive of close physical proximity. Paoli is shown to be a historic post office somewhere near the town of Albany in Clinton County, Kentucky. Note that there is also a Sulphur Creek branch here, as well: http://msrmaps.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=12&Z=16&X=826&Y=5072&W=3" Philip Lawson was apparently a messenger in the Baptist church in Cumberland, KY. A messenger is described by the modern day Southern Baptist Church as follows: "The Annual Meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention consists of representatives, or "messengers," as they are called, from cooperating churches, who gather to confer and determine the programs, policies, and budget of the Convention. Each church may be represented by up to 10 messengers, depending on church size and Cooperative Program giving amounts, ensuring equal accessibility for small and large congregations alike." Sulpher Baptist Church Records have the following information of Philip Lawson: Page 474: Obey's River---Sinking Spring---Sulphur Baptist Church, Cumberland Co., KY: in 1812, Philip Lawson was a messenger here. 1815-P. Lawson, messenger. 1816-Philip Lawson, messenger. 1817-P. Lawson, messenger. 1820-Philip Lawson, messenger." It appears from this information that Philip Lawson was very important to this particular Baptist Church in Paoli, Cumberland County, KY. He might have been the minister. Also, these were missionary churches, set up to minister to the "heathens" throughout the world, including the Cherokee "heathens" in the Southeast. Many families with Cherokee ties became members of these churches. I have one further note on Philip Lawson. In looking at the book "Cumberland County Kentucky Will Records 1815-1912" compiled by Laura Lee Butler, we find the following information: "PHILLIP LAWSON WILL C-207, 208; signed 12/23/1835; reccd.5/24/1826; wife Poly; Francis Keen. Wit. Thomas Watkins, Nathaniel R. Ridble (sp?), Isaac Spears, ex. Polly Lawson & Francis Keen". P. 36 In the 1820 Cumberland, KY Census, a Charles Lewis is listed as resident 900, Philip Lawson is listed as resident 911, and David Roper is listed as resident 892. A John Lewis is listed as resident 667 and a Benjamin Lewis is listed as resident 862. Charles Lewis is listed as age 26-44, with a wife age 26-45, with 2 females under 10, and one male under 10 and two males 10-16. Benjamin Lewis is age 26-45, with a young family, and John Lewis is age 26-45, with a young family. As I mentioned previously, John Roper disappeared from Caswell, NC after his property was seized by way of a judgment obtained against him. He reappears in Cumberland, KY. David Roper, John Roper, Sr., and a John Roper, Jr. are seen residing in Cumberland, KY in 1820. The L. David Roper data base shows the following census results, which is in error: 1820 US census for KY: <10,11-16,17-18,26-45,>45(M) page <10,11-16,17-26,27-45,46-up (F) Cumberland Co.: David Roper 2 3 0 1 0 2 0 0 1 0 160 John Roper, Sr. 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 158 John Roper, Jr. 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 158 When I say the census data is in error, I refer to the interpretation that would follow from the above census data. John Roper Sr., and presumably is wife, are shown as being over 45 years of age, and with two female children. This appears to be consistent with the Ancestry.com census records. However, John Roper, Jr., who is has been identified by secondary sources as John C. Roper, is shown to be 11-16 years of age and presumably his wife is also 11-16 years of age. This would seem to be a bit young to be married. Also, if this is in fact John C. Roper, his age does not agree with later census data. For example, in the 1850 Dallas, MO census, John C. Roper is shown to be age 54. This would make him 24 years of age in 1820, not 11-16 years of age, and he would have been born in about 1796. In the 1860 Dallas, MO census, he is shown to be 62, and in the same census in 1870 he is shown to be 72, which would have him born in about 1798. In looking at the original 1820 Cumberland, KY census page on Ancestry.com, John Roper Jr. is shown as follows: John Roper, Jr. 1-0-0-1-0-0 0-0-0-1-0-0 This is not what is shown in the L. David Roper data base. John Roper, Jr. is shown in the Ancestry.com record as 16-25, his presumed wife is 16-25, and they have on male child under 10. This is consistent with the later census data on John C. Roper. John C. Roper is seen in the census records as having been born in Virginia. John Roper of Halifax, VA, father of John C. Roper, did not arrive in Caswell, NC until about 1797-98. This would be consistent with John C. Roper being born in Virginia, since John C. Roper's census records show him born between 1796 and 1798. So now we have John Roper of Halifax, VA, residing in Cumberland, KY in 1820 with his two sons, David Roper and John C. Roper. In the 1830 Cumberland, KY Census, David Roper is no longer residing in Cumberland County or anywhere else in KY. This is because he has moved to Rhea, TN. In the 1830 Rhea, TN Census, David Roper and his wife are shown as ages 50-59, consistent with birthdates in in 1780s. The male children are: one 10-14; one 15-19; and two 20-29. Charles J. Roper should now be about 12. Philip L. Roper should be about 15. There are no other David Ropers residing in Rhea, TN in 1830. (David Roper is residing 5 houses away from a Barkley Lawson, age 20-29 in Rhea, TN.) In looking at the book "Cumberland County Kentucky Deed Records Abstract and Index" compiled by Laura Lee Butler and Randolph N. Smith, 1975, we find that David and his wife are selling some of their property in Cumberland, KY in 1830: "David Roper & w. Nancy of Rhea Co. Tenn. to Clement Scott land on Galaway; 2/8/1831; G-241; also 6-242; 8/18/1830". P. 158 Notice that the above record is the first and only time that I am aware of that we come across the name of the wife of David Roper of Cumberland County, KY. Her name Nancy is consistent with her being Nancy Lewis who married David Roper in Caswell, NC. "David Roper of Rhea County to Joel Scott land on Galloway Creek; 8/2/1830; G-244". P. 158 There is also this entry in a Kentucky deed book: "Deed Book A 278 26 Feb. 1831 David Roper of Rhea co. to Solomon Hayes. The portion of Cumberland, KY that David Roper lived in became Monroe, KY in 1820. David Roper apparently returned from Rhea, TN to Monroe County, KY where he kept some land and he died sometime before June 2, 1843. In looking at the book "Cumberland County Kentucky Will Records 1815-1912" compiled by Laura Lee Butler, we find the following information: "Milton Murley, Att. for John A. Roper, Ex.of David Roper, dec. of Monroe Co., KY to Jacob Cain land on Kettle Creek; 11/5/1856; 0-32". P 336 "John A. Roper of Macon, MO. p. a. to Milton Murley of the Co. to deed land as heir or adm. of David Roper, dec.; 6/2/1843". P. 350. The Monroe County courthouse burned down twice, once at the hands of the Confederate army in retaliation for the burning of one of their courthouses. So there will be not probate records surviving. I cannot find David Roper in any 1840 census record. Besides Charles J. Roper, the two other known children of David Roper are John A. Roper and George Washington Roper. As can be seen above, John A. Roper was named as executor of David Roper's estate. Oldest sons are for the most part named as the executors of their father's estates In the 1810 Cumberland, KY census, David Roper is shown with 3 male children under 10. One of those will be George W. Roper. Another will be John A. Roper. Charles J. Roper has not yet been born. The 1830 Cumberland, KY census does not show David Roper, since he has now moved to Rhea, TN. However, the 1830 Cumberland, KY census does show a John A. Roper as the head of a household: 1830 US census for KY: page Cumberland Co. John A. Roper 1M20-30, 3F<5, 1F5-10, 1F20-30 128 John A. Roper next appears in the 1840 Liberty, Macon, Missouri census. He is shown as age 30-39, and his presumed wife is shown as 30-39. They have three children, all female, two of whom are age 10-14 and the other age 15-19. John A. Roper next appears in the 1850 District 52, Macon, Missouri census. He is shown as age 46, born abt 1804 in Virginia. His wife appears to be Patsy Roper, age 42, born about 1808 in Kentucky. They are shown with one daughter Elizabeth, age 20, born in Kentucky. (So both John A. Roper and his wife Patsy were in Kentucky). A John Roper then appears in the 1860 La Plata, Macon, MO census, age 55, born abt. 1805 in Kentucky. His wife is shown as Martha Roper (not Patsy), age 50, born abt. 1810, Kentucky. They are shown with no children. Secondary sources show John A. Roper's wife to be Martha A. Patsy Murley, born December 22, 1807, Kentucky, and dying on November 15,1889, in Richland, Macon, MO. She is shown marrying John A. Roper in 1824 in Tennessee. Her parents are shown to be Daniel Murley, born February 28, 1788, Greenbrier, VA, d. Jan 16, Macon, Macon, MO, and Margaret Barrett Moore, b. Sept 22, 1885, VA; d. 1855, Macon, Macon, MO. Besides Martha Patsy Murley, they are shown with 7 other children, one of whom is Margaret Ann Peggy Murley, b. March 26, 1820, Cumberland, KY. Returning to primary sources, Daniel Murley is shown residing in Paoli, Cumberland, KY on August 7, 1820 in that years census. He and his presumed wife are shown as age 26-44, with three males under 10, two females under 10, and three females 10-15 (poor Margaret Barrett Moore). They have one slave. In the 1820 Paoli, Cumberland, KY census just mentioned, Daniel Murley is shown residing next door to David Roper, and 7 properties from Charles Lewis, probable brother of Nancy Lewis. Daniel Murley also appears in the 1830 South of Cumberland River, Cumberland, KY census. Daniel Murley is shown in a Kentucky Land Grant, Survey Date May 8, 1822, Monroe County, KY, with 50 acres, Book J. The water course is Kettle Creek. The Land Grant is shown in Vol. 1,Book J, page239. Daniel Murley is shown in the 1850 District 52, Macon, MO census as age 72, b. Virginia. His wife Margaret Murley is age 65, b. Virginia. He is shown with three children residing in the household. A James Murley, presumed son of Daniel, is residing next door, age 23, b. Kentucky. Another known son of David Roper and Nancy Lewis is George W. Roper The 1810 Cumberland, KY Census shows three male sons of David Roper under 10 years of age. The 1820 Cumberland, KY Census shows two sons of David Roper under 10 years of age and 3 males sons between 11-16. When David and his wife Nancy moved from Cumberland, KY to Rhea, TN, they are shown with the following male children in the 1830 Rhea Census: one male child 10-14; one 15-19; and two 20-29. Charles J. Roper should now be about 12 years of age. There are two sons 20-29. One of those older sons is probably George W. Roper, who first shows up in a July 1, 1845, Huntsville, Marshall County, AL deed. His name is George W. Roper, Land Office Huntsville, Document Number 12531. Total acres are 80.25, issue date is Jul 1, 1845, statutory reference is 3 Stat. 566, Act of Treaty 1820, assignee of Richard Tidwell. The land description is 1 E1/2 SW HUNTSVILLE No 9S 2E 23. William Alexander Roper, Jr. found the parcel map. As he explained, "The property described in the deed you mention seems to be within Section 23, Township 9 South, Range 2 East. That would seem to put the property in Marshall County in the Big Spring Valley very near the Blount County line: http://msrmaps.com/image.aspx?T=2&S=14&Z=16&X=172&Y=1182&W=3 USGS Maps show only the reference numbers for the corner Sections within each Township. You will see Sections 31 (near Summit) and 36 (Nixon Chapel) are labeled. The Section immediately above Section 31 is Section 30. The Section immediately above Section 36 is Section 25. Section 23 would be one Section up (North) and one Section left (West) of Section 25." In the same parcel map that WAR, Jr. found George W. Roper, there is another parcel owner listed as "Vinton Gden". This is probably Vinson Oden, father of Mary Oden, who married Philip L. Roper, b. abt. 1815. William Alexander Roper, Jr. then found a David Roper with Northern Alabama, Township 12 South, Range 3 West, in Section 30. I do not know who this David Roper is; he may be the missing son of David Roper, which would fit in with the naming pattern that I mentioned above. Philip L Roper was found in the 1840 Marshall, AL census, and in the 1850 Blount, AL census, which is adjacent to Marshall, AL. William Alexander Roper, Jr. next found George W. Roper in the 1850 Marshall, AL census, with the following information: "George ROPER is enumerated in Marshall County, AL, in the 1850 Census, but the record is mis-indexed at Ancestry as 'RESSER': Source: Year: 1850; Census Place: District 22, Marshall, Alabama; Roll: M432_10; Page: 192B; Image: 388. The 1850 Census record gives a much richer identification of the children. It is UNCLEAR whether the eldest female Casander, age 23 (b abt 1827 - AL) is an eldest daughter or a young wife, but her place of birth is suggestive that this is George's wife. Next is Elizabeth, age 18 (b abt 1832 - TN), followed by David, age 16 (b abt 1834 - TN). Following David are sons Milton, age 13 (b abt 1837 - TN) and Hardy, age 10 (b abt 1840 - TN). Nancy, age 8 (b abt 1842 - TN) is next with Elizabeth, age 6 (b abt 1844 - AL) the youngest. David's appearance as seemingly the eldest son is consistent with this George ROPER being a son of a David ROPER, given the tendency to name the eldest son in honor of one's father. The appearance of a Nancy amongst the children also seems to be consistent with George being a child of David and Nancy ROPER, of Cumberland and Rhea. Hardy and Milton, by contrast, are interesting names, not common in the ROPER family. It seems a little unusual to have two daughters named "Elizabeth", introducing some question as to whether the eldest Elizabeth, age 18, is a daughter or, perhaps an orphaned niece or young ROPER widow. Alternatively, the younger Elizabeth ROPER, age 6, might be an orphan folded into the family. Immediately adjacent to George ROPER in the 1850 enumeration is a Milton BAILY, age 38 (b abt 1812 - SC), who seems to be a very good candidate to be the person honored by naming a son Milton ROPER. Perhaps George ROPER was married to a BAILY. Casander or Cassandra ROPER is much too young to be the mother of the elder children. The birthplaces of the children seem to fix the arrival date of George ROPER in Alabama as abt 1842-4. This seems to be consistent with the deed record you noted. The birthplaces would also seem to imply that the place to look for George in the 1840 Census would be in Tennessee. The ages of George and the children seem to be reasonably consistent with the ages of persons enumerated within the household of George ROPER, of McMinn County, TN, though Elizabeth at age 18 seems too old to be the female child shown to be under age 5 in 1840. This seems to suggest the possibility that the elder Elizabeth is not George ROPER's daughter. Source: Year: 1840; Census Place: McMinn, Tennessee; Roll: 527; Page: 90; Image: 185; Family History Library Film: 0024547." In the 1860 Marshall County, AL Census, he is shown as George W Roper, age 50, born about 1810 in Kentucky, living in the Western Division of Marshall, Alabama, Guntersville Post Office. His wife is listed as Catherine Roper, age 33, born in Alabama. There is a child named Hardy Roper, age 20, born in Tennessee, and a child named Eliza Jane Roper, born in Alabama, age 15. (Secondary sources say he was first married to a Jane, but I have found no primary proof of that name. However, this would explain a child in the household only 13 years younger than the mother in the household and who was born in Tennessee, not Alabama). The 1870 Marshall County, AL Census has the additional information that George W. Roper is age 61 and his wife Catherine is age 43. They are shown with two children in the household, Henry, age 6, and John, age 5, both born in Alabama. The 1980 Marshall County, AL Census shows George W Roper to be 71, born in abt. 1809, KY, occupation saloon keeper, with both parents being shown as born in Virginia. His wife is named Cassia, age 48, born in Alabama, with parents both born in Kentucky. The sons Henry and John again show up, with no new information. Secondary sources state that George W. Roper died November 15, 1883, Warrenton, Marshall, AL. So here are the connections that are important: 1. George W. Roper is born in Kentucky in abt. 1809, which would account for one of the missing children of David Roper in the 1810 and 1820 Cumberland, KY Census. 2. George W. Roper has a child born in about 1840 in Tennessee, where David Roper and his wife Nancy are residing by 1830. 3. George W. Roper appears in Marshall County, AL by at least July of 1845, where Philip L. Roper is residing by the time of the 1840 Marshall County, AL Census, and in the same section where Vinson Oden is living. 4. George W. Roper names a child David. 5. George W. Roper says his parents were born in Virginia. Secondary sources say Nancy Lewis, who I believe to be the wife of David Roper, was born in Virginia. 6. Charles J. Roper named his first son George W. Roper, who named a son Philip Washington Roper. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>