This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lea Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1887.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Have you yet identified a spouse of John Roper (b. bef. 1756, d. aft. 1820 - Cumberland, KY)? I do NOT recall seeing you mention the name of John ROPER's wife. When you examined the images of the extant deed records, did any of these show the identity of the wife releasing her dower interest in land being sold? * Also, do you have any theory as to the identity of the unnamed daughter of William LEA discussed within my separate thread "ROPER Grandchildren of William LEA (d 1794 - GA), of Wilkes County, GA": "ROPER Grandchildren of William LEA (d 1794 - GA), of Wilkes County, GA" (10 Apr 2014 2:09PM) http://boards.ancestry.com.au/surnames.roper/1893/mb.ashx Possibilities would seem to include either David ROPER, of Caswell, Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER, of Caswell, James ROPER, of Caswell, John ROPER (b bef. 1756) and William ROPER (b. bef. 1759). Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN's son David ROPER (who might have been one of the David ROPERs at Caswell) would also seem to be a candidate, given that he is known to have a son named William ROPER and a daughter named Sarah ROPER. You insight into where William LEA's daughter fits into the family is appreciated! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lea Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1893/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Almost thirteen years ago a researcher posted a Query at the Genealogy.com ROPER Message Board inquiring as to information about two ROPER grandchildren of William LEA/LEE, of Wilkes County, GA: "Searching for William Roper and his sister Sarah Roper, heirs to William Lee and Nance Ann Graves. Roper children listed as grandchildren [sic] in William's 1794 will in Wilkes Co., Ga. Roper children probably born in N.C. and may have remained in N.C. Their mother may have been Sarah Lee ." Secondary sources seem to believe that this William LEA migrated to Wilkes County, Georgia, from Caswell County, NC, about 1788. The source and reliability of this secondary information about the timing of the LEA migration is UNKNOWN to me. See: "William & Sarah Roper-Caswell/Orange Co." (July 28, 2001 at 19:17:00) http://genforum.genealogy.com/roper/messages/840.html Secondary sources show William LEA's Will to be recorded with Wilkes County, Georgia Will Book 1792-1801 at p. 112. The Will is purported to make these bequests: "Lea, William. To Wife Nancy for life or widowhood, the plantation whereon I now live, all the furniture within the walls, stock, etc., and slaves Ben, Jude, Jenney and Osborn. To son Thomas slave Hannah. To son John slave Daniel. To son Jonathan slave Dinah. To dau. Nancy for life slaves George, Milly and Elix, the still, 100 acres of land, etc., at her death the land to be given to my son Solomon, the negroes and stock to Nancy's five children (not named). To grandchildren William and Sarah Ropers slave Jenny at the death of my wife, when they come of age. To grandau. Susannah Lea slave Osborn at wife's death. £30 to be divided among the heirs of my dau. Rosanna Gean at wife's death. Aquilla Burroughs, John Lea, and Joseph Henderson, Excrs. Signed Jan. 9, 1794. Probated May 3, 1794. Spencer Runnels, Geo. Griggs, John Henderson, Test." William LEA's Inventory was apparently recorded on 01 Jul 1794 at Pages 62-4. Secondary sources further report that estate papers reflect the following additional information: "In the lifetime of Aquilla Burroughs, (the other excr.), and after the death of Nancy Lea the wid of the testator, towit on 28th, day of Jan. 1809 a certain negro woman and her two children which by the will belonged to the wid for life, final division to two grandchildren, were exposed to public sale, Richard Peteet became the purchaser." A LOT of additional information, seemingly specific and credible, about William LEA appears at this Ancestry page, seemingly maintained by the Caswell County Historical Association: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=caswellcounty&id=I3438 * The secondary source seem to assert that William LEA had a daughter named "Sarah" who was married to a ROPER. While perhaps this is indicated within some other evidence, what I garner from the Will is that William and Nancy LEA had an UNNAMED DAUGHTER who predeceased them (d bef 1794) and that this daughter had a son named "William" and a daughter named "Sarah." One might draw a very weak inference that William and Sarah ROPER might have been orphans with their father predeceasing them, as well, but it seems to me that this inference would strain what can be reasonably garnered from the Will. While William LEA MIGHT have made the bequest to his son-in-law rather than his grandchildren, IF the grandchildren's father had remarried and the grandfather had intended only his actual grandchildren to benefit, the specific bequest to the grandchildren would seem to make sense whether his ROPER son-in-law was living or dead. After Nancy LEA died, the slave Jenny and her two children were sold and the bequests to the two ROPER grandchildren were apparently paid. * * * Secondary sources suggest that this William LEA previously resided along County Line Creek in Caswell County, NC, where he is represented to own 1,052 acres according to the 1784 Tax Lists (I have NOT seen the referenced Tax List). The proximity of William LEA's land to the ROPER property is suggested by these deed abstracts posted at Dave ROPER's North Carolina ROPER Families Page: "A:520: William Lea to Major Lea for 100 lbs, 240 acres on Country Line Cr adj Wm. Lea's corner, a beach on Roper's Br, corner James Lea's line. 19 Dec 1780." "J:344: Major Lea to Hearndon Lea for 50 lbs 86.5 acres on Country Line Cr adj John Lea, Roper's Br, being part of tract major Lea surveyed for himself. 3 Mar 1796. Wit: J. Carter, John Lea." "N:133: John Roper to William Yates for 50 lbs 50 acres W side Country Line Cr. at Roper's Spring Br. 13 Nov 1798 Wit: Saml S. Farley, Abner Robinson." See: http://www.roperld.com/rnc1617.htm Dave also shows this abstracted record: "NC Gen. Soc. Journal V.3 p.191: William & Nancy Ann (Graves) Lea from Caswell Co. NC c1788 to Wilkes Co. GA. William d Wilkes Co. GA c1794. Legatees: Thomas Lea, John Lea, Jonathan Lea, Nancy Lea, & her five Chn: Rosanne Jean, Sarah Lea, William & Sarah Roper (grandchn), wife Nancy Lea." * * * Although I have seen secondary sources which seem to identify the UNNAMED daughter of William LEA as "Sarah" and some other records which seem to ascribe the son-in-law's name as "William ROPER," I have seen NO PRIMARY EVIDENCE which would support either ascription. On the other hand, there are a number of ROPER names which we commonly associate with the ROPER properties at or near Rattlesnake Creed or Country Line Creek. In 1790, the only two ROPERs shown on the Tax Rolls for Caswell County seem to have been James ROPER and William ROPER. On the other hand, it seems as though no researcher has ever bothered to try to gather all of the extant Caswell Tax lists. There seem to have clearly been two different David ROPERs at this location in the years both before and after this Tax List. James ROPER is KNOWN to have had a brother George ROPER who was from Caswell County. * The precise identity of the William ROPER and Sarah ROPER named within William LEA's Will remain UNIDENTIFIED. We KNOW that these seemed to be minors at the 09 Jan 1794 date of William LEA's Will (b abt 1773-93). This makes the grandson far too YOUNG to be the William ROPER who married Keziah YATES, although these grandchild could be children of William ROPER (b bef 1759), particularly if they were born either before William ROPER's marriage to Keziah in 1781 OR if William survived and remarried after Keziah ROPER's death. * One interesting set of candidates might be the William ROPER and Sarah ROPER who later appear in or near Sumner County, Tennessee. I noted in another recent post the presence of William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC) who is enumerated residing in Smith County, TN, in 1850. He would have been (barely) a minor at the date of William LEA's Will. This possibility is made somewhat more intriguing by the marriage of a Sally ROPER ("Sally possibly a nickname for "Sarah") to William HAYES in Sumner County, TN, on 21 Jul 1810. What makes this seem LESS plausible is that Sarah ROPER would probably have first wed at age 16 to 20. If this was Sally ROPER's age range in 1810, then she would have been born 1790-94. While this is within the age range for her to have been a minor at William LEA's death, it is seemingly INCONSISTENT with the possibility that Sally ROPER would be a younger sister to William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC). If anything, the age range is more consistent with the possibility that William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC) might have been Sally ROPER's father. Some further investigation into the age and genealogical information of Sally Roper HAYES would seem to be in order. * Another possible candidate to be the Sarah ROPER named within William LEA's Will would be the Sary ROPER who married Robert BOYD on 18 Sep 1794. This construction would have Sarah ROPER MUCH OLDER, perhaps still a minor, but of marriageable age by September 1794. * * It should probably be here noted that David ROPER (d 1803 - Edgefield, SC) seems to have had a son named William and a daughter named Sarah. However, he also seems to have had a younger son named Daniel. But it is also possible that this David ROPER had more than one wife. There is more than a little evidence that this David ROPER might have been in Rutherford or Caswell County, NC. * * * I am NOT here attempting any ascription, but the healthy recent interest in the Caswell, North Carolina, ROPER families brought about by Frank BATCHELOR's recent investigations suggests that we ought to be considering the puzzle of the William and Nancy LEA grandchildren as we otherwise assess the Caswell, NC, and Tennessee ROPER families! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I absolutely believe that study of naming patterns of given names is quite important and certainly was NOT seeking to discount its use as a tool. Not having read the reference you cite, I cannot speak to precise empirical evidence as to the prevalence or reliability of the tool in particular places. However, it also seems to me that there are some rather common sense considerations which are applicable to the prevalence of this naming pattern. You mention respect for the father or grandfather, which I think is an apt summary for what is going on. But one means of developing such respect is actually "knowing" the ancestor. That is when a parent dies young, leaving orphans who are raised by other relatives, this can cause rather vast shifts in who is identified as a person worthy of respect, emulation and reverence with the honor of being remembered in the given names of one's children. Thus, we see that several of the Colonial era ROPER ancestors with the more unique given names were not remembered at all. I would first point to Shadrach ROPER, of Powhatan, who died leaving a Will. A common sense reading of this Will shows that Shadrach seemed to mostly disinherit his eldest son, based upon the oral assurance that Samuel LANDRUM would give Samuel ROPER a slave, making his wife and younger minor children his heirs. This may have resulted in some disaffection by Samuel ROPER. In respect of the minor children, including William P. ROPER and Jesse ROPER, NONE seemed to name a son after Shadrach, though perhaps there was some first born son of either who didn't survive childhood. Jesse ROPER named his eldest son William P. ROPER, apparently after his older brother. Another example might be found in Drury ROPER, though we know of no direct sons of Drury. Drury ROPER, though a Revolutionary War Veteran, also served time in the Virginia penitentiary for a crime I have not yet determined. He was essentially disowned/disinherited by his father. No one seems to have thereafter named a child "Drury". Similarly, Daniel ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, died very young, leaving orphans. And Daniel was also mostly NOT remembered in subsequent generations of given naming. At the other extreme, I recall having discovered during a period when I was investigating possible early family connections of the ROPER and RAPER families that there was a rather sudden proliferation of "Robertson RAPER"s. There had been a Robertson RAPER who served in the Revolution. He had a number of sons ALL of whom seemed to name their eldest son "Robertson," resulting in the unusual anomaly that an uncommon given name had become pervasive in a single generation by the respect and reverence that the War Veteran Robertson commanded within his large family. This anecdote probably suggests another possibly general rule that when an ancestor was particularly loved, revered and well respected by some, he was often so held by many, while when the ancestor wasn't remembered with as great a fondness or affection, this might also be a more widely held view. The naming of a child after the grandfather by one child might therefore be MORE predictive that other children might follow suit, while a deviation from the rule might suggest that there was some underlying issue or factor which affected the given naming that carried forward to the other children. It should probably also be noted that it was also NOT uncommon for a parent to hope or expect that a grandparent might take a special interest in a child named for the grandparent and this leads to the not altogether selfish result that when a grandparent was already dead that the grandparent couldn't be subsequently relied upon for help or support. Thus, the premature death of the grandparent to be honored might truncate at least one reason for honoring or naming the grandparent. Although I have never kept any formal metrics, my own anecdotal experience has been that the grandparents are MORE LIKELY to be remembered in the naming of children when the grandparent is ALIVE and nearby, to fully appreciate the honor. I suspect that when the grandparent was both KNOWN, well liked, well respected and LOVED that the impetus to honor a particular grandparent was greatest. Some of these are HARD FOR US TO MEASURE given the sparse data which has come down to the present time and would have probably even been hard to measure with almost perfect data coinciding with the naming. In fact, the naming of the child would probably be the best evidence of the respect and affection rather than some other measure of respect and affection being predictive of the likelihood of naming. Overall, I think that naming patterns are important, but that the raw metrics as to likelihood of naming need to be tempered with some appreciation as to the dynamics by which exceptions can and do arise. Moreover, because not all children survive and the identity and sequence of the all of the children does not always come down to us with certainty, we must apply the intuition suggested by the rule with great care. While it can be a helpful guide, it is far from ironclad proof as to a relationship, especially where there is a proliferation of the given name across numerous sons. The rule is thus most useful in support of other primary evidence of a relationship, direct or circumstantial. When you start to develop some actual evidence that William ROPER and Keziah YATES actually survived and made it to Tennessee, then we can begin to assess the likelihood that they might be the parents of various disconnected Tennessee ROPER families. Unless and until such evidence can be identified and brought forward, it is BETTER to simply show these ROPER ancestors as DISCONNECTED and the appropriate subjects of further research. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, As you know, the onomastic system of naming children in Virginia is not something I invented. I am relying on David Hackett Fischer and his book "Albion Seeds: Four British Folkways in America" when I use the naming system as one tool to determine who an ancestor might be. Of course, there are exceptions, especially it seems as we get farther into the 19th century. Today's parents seem to have no appreciation for the honor given to a parent or grandparent by naming their children after them. Both early Virginians and Backcountry people typically named their first child after their on parents. According to Fischer, "60 percent of eldest sons in Virginia received their grandparents' names, compared with 37 percent in Massachusetts." Further, he points out that "one study of naming patterns in Middlesex County, Virginia finds that only 27 percent of eldest sons and 19 percent of first-born daughters were given their parents' forenames, compared with more than 67 percent in Massachusetts." Ibid., p. 308. So, perhaps Tennessee Roper was an exception. However, the general rule has been a useful tool for me. For example, I stopped looking for the parents of David Roper of Caswell and Cumberland, KY in Edgefield, SC, when I realized that, based on his family naming pattern, I should be looking for a John Roper. And there he was in Caswell, NC, the place were David had married Nancy Lewis. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Evans, Brown Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: The 1850 Census shows a William ROPER, age 76 (b abt 1776 - NC), together with Elizabeth ROPER, age 56 (b abt 1794), enumerated within Smith County, TN, in 1850. This William ROPER is consistent in age with either the William ROPER (b bef 1776) enumerated in Maury County, TN, in 1820, or the William ROPER (b bef 1776) enumerated in Williamson County, TN, the same year. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11097-126449-57?cc=1401638 : accessed 10 Apr 2014), Tennessee > Smith > Smith county > image 90 of 345; citing NARA microfilm publication M432. * Clearly, this William ROPER is TOO YOUNG to have been the William ROPER who was grantee of a deed in Caswell County, NC, in 1779, or the William ROPER who married Keziah YATES in 1781. This William ROPER is also TOO YOUNG to be a father of David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN). The ages are more consistent with the possibility that this William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC) was a brother or cousin of David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN). It seems singularly UNLIKELY that William ROPER (b bef 1759) was the father of William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC), UNLESS this William ROPER was much older than generally believed and married PRIOR to his 1781 marriage to Keziah YATES. This William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC) is of sufficient age to be the father of John Y. ROPER, of Smith and Sumner Counties, but William ROPER's wife Elizabeth ROPER (b abt 1794) is TOO YOUNG to be the mother of John Y. ROPER (b abt 1794 - NC). Elizabeth is actually about the SAME AGE as John Y. ROPER and at best is probably a younger stepmother. * William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC), of Smith County, TN, seems LIKELY to be the William ROPER who is known to have married Elizabeth BROWN/EVANS on 26 Jun 1817 in Knox County, Tennessee. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11097-126449-57?cc=1401638 : accessed 10 Apr 2014), Tennessee > Smith > Smith county > image 90 of 345; citing NARA microfilm publication M432. "Tennessee, County Marriages, 1790-1950," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XZ4W-7Y3 : accessed 10 Apr 2014), William Roper and Elizabeth Evans, 26 Jun 1817; citing Knox, Tennessee, United States, ; FHL microfilm 1205066. * It is UNCLEAR TO ME whether BROWN or EVANS is Elizabeth's maiden name and whose widow she was. * Since cross-marriages of multiple brothers and sisters to siblings of another family was more common in those days, the 30 Sep 1807 marriage of William BROWN and Rebecca EVANS in Knox County, TN, a decade earlier may possibly inform our inquiry. See: "Tennessee, County Marriages, 1790-1950," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XZ43-KJM : accessed 10 Apr 2014), William Brown and Rebecca Evans, 30 Sep 1807; citing Knox, Tennessee, United States, 8; FHL microfilm 1020951. "Tennessee, County Marriages, 1790-1950," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9816-6910-33?cc=1619127 : accessed 10 Apr 2014), 004538925 > image 31 of 1662. * * * Overall, it seems to me that the William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC) KNOWN to have lived in Tennessee is a BETTER candidate to be either the William ROPER found in Maury or Williamson County in 1820 than the William ROPER (b bef 1759). Of course, this does NOT exclude the possibility that the OTHER William ROPER shown in the Census residing in Tennessee in 1820 might instead be the William ROPER who married Keziah YATES. But there seems to be NO EXTANT EVIDENCE that this is the case and whenever one actually studies the records, the prospect that William ROPER survived and moved to Tennessee seems more and more remote. * * What seems to be often missing from your analysis is a more thorough assessment of the relative merits of an ascription by assessing alternative constructions using the very same data. That is, if you are going to seize upon a particular record, such as a Census enumeration for a particular year, rather than just taking that record and asserting that it supports your hypothesis, it is important for look at the other Census records for persons of the SAME NAME or in the same place in several Census enumerations both BEFORE and AFTER. Since you seem focused on defending and supporting the specious prior ascriptions relating to William ROPER and Keziah YATES, you seem not to be willing to entertain and fully weigh alternative possible ascriptions using the same data. IF we were to accept the hypothesis that William ROPER (b bef 1759) EVER migrated to Tennessee, then one needs some theory as to precisely HOW and WHEN William ROPER arrived there and then WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM afterwards. * * * ANOTHER REVIEW OF THE 1820 TENNESSEE CENSUS DATA IN RESPECT OF OTHER PROVEN INFORMATION We have Census records in Maury, TN, in 1820 for three ROPER households: William ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury, TN 1820] David Y ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury, TN 1820] Tennessee ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury, TN 1820] We KNOW that William ROPER (b bef 1776), of Maury, was age 45 or more and thus born before 1776. We KNOW from this and subsequent Census data that David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN) is much older that Tennessee ROPER (b 02 Jul 1798 - NC). There is also a Thomas ROPER, enumerated within Hickman County, which is the adjacent County to the immediate Northwest of Maury, TN: Thomas ROPER: 3 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Hickman 1820] See: "ROPERs Households in the 1820 Census for Tennessee" (1 Mar 2014 4:29AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1856.1/mb.ashx In a prior post, I also showed that the Census data for Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC), of Clinton, IL, was reasonably consistent with the possibility that Thomas ROPER had migrated through Pulaski, KY, to Hickman, TN, and then on to Clinton, IL. Thus, in 1820 there is a cluster of ROPERs with a very tight age grouping living in close proximity in Maury and Hickman, TN: William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC) [Possibly Maury or Williamson, TN, in 1820] David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN) [Maury, TN 1820] Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC) [Hickman, TN 1820] Then, there seems to be another generation, with another possibly related John Y. ROPER residing in Smith County: John Y. ROPER (b abt 1794 - NC) [Smith, TN 1820] Tennessee ROPER (b 02 Jul 1798 - NC) [Maury, TN 1820] * The Charles ROPER found in Stewart, TN, in 1820 is almost certainly from the Northampton, NC, ROPER family and NOT as closely related: Charles ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Stewart, TN 1820] * These age ranges seem to me to be consistent with the bare possibility that John Y. ROPER (b abt 1794 - NC) might be the son of William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC). Similarly, proximity and age range seem MORE consistent with the bare possibility that Tennessee ROPER (b 02 Jul 1798 - NC) might be a son of David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN). These are NOT ascriptions. Rather, I simply point out that the data seem to me far more consistent with such a construction than the speculative ascription you propose that William ROPER and Keziah YATES were the parents of ANY of these ROPERs. It seems to me that we can REJECT any ascription that William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC), David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN) and Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC) were children born to Keziah YATES OUT OF WEDLOCK. Thus, we now reduce the problem to the simpler question as to whether there is ANY basis to believe that Keziah posthumously conceived John Y. ROPER (b abt 1794 - NC) and Tennessee ROPER (b 02 Jul 1798 - NC). I find the theory of multiple out of wedlock conceptions and posthumous conceptions to not be merely fanciful, but actually offensive! I think this kind of nonsense is a family embarrassment. I think that it is better to follow where the data leads us rather than looking for records and then rationalizing why the common sense reading of the data should be discarded in favor of the fantastic. * In closing, though, I would also point out that William ROPER (b bef 1776), of Williamson, TN, seems to be a somewhat better candidate to be William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC), of Smith County, TN, than William ROPER (b bef 1776), of Maury, TN. This is because Elizabeth ROPER (b abt 1794) would have been about age 26 in 1820 and better fits the 1820 Census profile of the William ROPER found in Williamson, which shows a female age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94): William ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury, TN 1820] William ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Williamson, TN 1820] Of course, it is also possible that William ROPER (b abt 1776 - NC), of Smith County, TN, hadn't yet arrived in Tennessee in 1820 OR that he resided in one of the East Tennessee Counties for which ALL 1820 Census data was LOST. It seems to me that we need to carefully review and assess EVERY William ROPER Census record from 1790 to 1850 to track the movements of various William ROPERs from decennial Census to Census. Rather than looking at single Census records in isolation, each record should be assessed in respect of the prior and subsequent Census enumerations. This is time consuming, but I have found that it gives very good results. We also need to be looking at extant annual real estate and personal property tax records which show more precisely when a person first appears in a place and when a person disappears from the records for a jurisdiction. There also needs to be a recognition that MOST deed records are NOT abstracted in published abstracts and that the means of ascertaining whether a person is shown in the deed records is ordinarily by scrutiny of the Grantor-Grantee Index for the land records, WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN DONE IN MOST COUNTIES by ROPER researchers because everyone continues to simply make speculative, whimsical and/or fraudulent ascriptions rather than looking at the primary records. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Someone with a keen interest in the Maury ROPER families may very well discover that one of the quickest and most efficient means of obtaining additional insight into this family would be to obtain the War of 1812 Land Bounty Application for John Y. ROPER (b abt 1794 - NC), of Smith County, and later Sumner County. It is UNCLEAR to me why you think that the "Y." in the name of David Y. ROPER might have stood for "Yates," while dismissing the other contemporary Tennessean named John Y. ROPER, who lived in Smith and Sumner County. See my discussion of John Y. ROPER within my post: "ROPER Entries in the War of 1812 Pension Index" (8 Apr 2014 6:20PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1870.5/mb.ashx * The process for ordering the War of 1812 Land Bounty Application is discussed, with appropriate links to the National Archives, in my recent post: "Ordering Military Service Records and Pension Records from the National Archives" (9 Apr 2014 6:08PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1870.6/mb.ashx The cost for copies of a single War of 1812 Pension Application or Land Bounty Application is $30. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.6/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Since there are many published references explaining the contents of military service records and pension records, both in print and online, I will not further discuss the significance, importance and contents of these records. However, I will call ROPER researchers' attention to this published article on War of 1812 records, currently available online at the National Archives website: "Genealogical Records of the War of 1812," by Stuart L. BUTLER http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1991/winter/war-of-1812.html * Separately, the instructions, application and process for ordering copies of military service records and pension records is discussed at this National Archives web page: "How to Order Older Military Service or Pension Records" http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/pre-ww-1-records.html * If you order copies of ROPER military service records or Pension records not readily available online (such as the 1812 Service Records and Pension records discussed within this thread), I would respectfully request that you consider doing one or more of the following: (a) Post a message to this thread indicating that you have ordered and obtained records for a particular ROPER ancestor to advise others of your progress and to make them aware that you have followed up on this ancestor, (b) Post an online transcription of the records you obtain, (c) Scan and share the pages you receive as a consequence of your National Archives records request, (d) Share copies of the digital images with L. David ROPER (who maintains a ROPER Family History web site) and/or other leading ROPER researchers, (e) I would personally request to receive a copy of such digital documents so that the information can be folded into my own research! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: What is the basis of your belief that John Roper (b. bef. 1756 - VA, d. aft. 1820), of Halifax, VA, Caswell, NC, and Cumberland, KY, is a brother of the William ROPER who married Keziah YATES? Is there something more than a common residence in Caswell County, NC, to support such an ascription? Globally, "William" is the most common name in the ROPER family with approximately 10% of the males being named William, owing in part to several notable William ROPERs in history, including the William ROPER who married Margaret MORE. What evidence would you identify that William ROPER (b bef 1758), of Caswell, NC, was still living at the date of the 1800 Census or the 1810 Census? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, The Rutledge connection is interesting. I will check it out. In my opinion, there is a connection between the Ropers of Maury County, TN and the John Roper, Sr. and John Roper, Jr. of Cumberland County, KY. John Roper, Sr. of Cumberland County would have been the brother of the William Roper of Caswell, NC, who married Keziah Yates. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Rutledge, Loving Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: You point out: > ""Maury Co. Court Minutes: Will of William Loving, Sr. 3 Feb 1826. Wit: William X > Roper Settlement with William Rutledge, adm. of John Edleman, decd, 22 Feb > 1826 ... T. Roper" > > The above records seem to be two separate entries on two separate dates. The > second entry is a settlement with William Rutledge, which appears to be connected > in some way to a T. Roper (possibly Tennessee Roper). > > I have not seen the original of the Will of William Loving or the original of the > Maury County Court minutes. The transcription states that a William Roper > witnessed the Will." This is interesting information, but I see a different significance. John ROPER, Senr., and John ROPER, Junr., of Cumberland, KY, are enumerated in the 1820 Census immediately adjacent to two RUTLEDGE households, those of Joseph RUTLEDGE and Henry RUTLEDGE. Joseph RUTLEDGE appears to be age 45 of more (b bef 1776) and Henry RUTLEDGE appears to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94). This seems to me to suggest some close connection between the ROPER and RUTLEDGE families and suggest a possible connection between Tennessee ROPER and the Caswell ROPERs. Realize that this Will also seems to have been dated AFTER the date that a William ROPER died in Nashville, TN. Although you stated in your initial post in this thread that you were disinterested in the William ROPER residing in Sumner, TN, I suspect that the William ROPER found in Maury in 1820 is probably the SAME William ROPER later found in Sumner County, TN. Also, nothing in your post supports a connection with William ROPER and Keziah YATES. For reasons explained in another post, Keziah Yates ROPER was probably already DEAD before Tennessee ROPER was born. * You also point out: > "Tennessee Roper named a child William Roper, b. August 19,1830, according to > the Ricketts Family bible." Yes. And Tennessee also had sons named John ROPER and Ephraim ROPER. YOU have asserted in prior posts that the name of the FIRST SON is suggestive of the identity of the father and argue this strenuously until it comes to ascription of children to William ROPER, who is apparently a special case for which this general rule is to be ignored! The given names of Tennessee's children seems to UNDERMINE rather than to strengthen your argument. It is perhaps noteworthy that the most significant thing about the given names of Tennessee ROPER's sons is that he names the second son with a name previously NEVER used in ANY Southern ROPER family ("Ephraim"), but which is a very COMMON GIVEN NAME in the Massachusetts ROPER family. If we are going to be making ascriptions based upon given names, you should be looking for Tennessee ROPER's ancestors in Sterling or Worcester, Massachusetts! * I would certainly encourage you to look further at the LOVING and RUTLEDGE families, but I suspect that additional facts will further unravel rather than strengthen your argument. Why not let William ROPER and Keziah YATES rest in peace and look for ancestors of the Maury ROPERs amongst those actually married and living at the date of each Maury ROPER's birth? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates, Young, Ewell, Ewel, Yewall Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Your analysis is much more sound in respect of possible alternatives as to David Y. ROPER's middle name: > "William Roper and Kiziah Yates would normally name the first born male child after > the grandfather, David Roper of Caswell, NC. This is the naming pattern that was > followed in the majority of cases in Virginia and the Backcountry. It would also be > natural to honor the grandfather on the mother's side, which in this case would be > to include Yates. > > The Yates family has many connections with the Roper family, starting from Capt. > William Roper transported a William Yates. > > There really aren't that many choices for what the Y can stand for. By far, the three > most common surnames of persons in Britain today that start with a Y are Young > (abt. 132,000), Yates (abt. 29,000), and York (abt. 3100), or their variants Younge, > Yeats, Yorke, etc. Other less common names are like Yardley, Yarwood, and > Yeoman." I AGREE that it would NOT be unreasonable for a parent to name a child to include the surname of a maternal grandmother. I also AGREE that the YATES family has been closely allied with the ROPER family since arrival in the United States and would add that this alliance seems to date from at least the betrayal and capture of Father Edmund CAMPION at Lyford Grange. But you are beginning with the ASSUMPTION that the Maury or Giles ROPERs are descended from William ROPER and Keziah YATES and then, based upon this ex ante conclusion then reasoning that the "Y" must mean "Yates". Your own statistics would seem to show that it is FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY that "Y" stood for "Young" rather than for "Yates". Your approach of using incidence of surnames in Britain is NOT unreasonable. But looking within the immediate area is even better. If one looks at the 1820 Census for Giles County, TN, there are TWO YATES households and NINE YOUNG households. In Maury, TN, there are TWO YATES households and TWO YOUNG households in 1820. By contrast, in Caswell County, NC, there were TWO YATES households and ZERO YOUNG households. Thus, if it was KNOWN that David Y. ROPER was born in Caswell, NC, then this might support a strong inference that it was MORE LIKELY that the "Y. stood for "Yates" rather than "Young". On the other hand, in Lincoln, NC, where the ABERNATHYs apparently were seated prior to migration to Tennessee, there are ZERO YATES households and TWO YOUNG households. Thus if we KNEW that David Y. ROPER's middle name was "Yates", then this would make a connection to Caswell MORE LIKELY. If we knew that David Y. ROPER's middle name was "Young", then this might enhance the probability that this David came from a place richer in YOUNG households. But if we INVENT the middle name of "Yates" this invented name tells us NOTHING about the likely point of origin of David Y. ROPER in the prior generation or Census. INVENTING middle names proves ONLY that the genealogist is DISHONEST and that their work cannot be trusted! * Moreover, while the bare probabilities might be fairly derived from a distribution of names within a population, the CONDITIONAL PROBABILITY is going to be DIFFERENT. What is the CONDITIONAL PROBABILITY that "Y" stands for YATES given that in subsequent generations these families had descendants with given and middle names starting with a "Y" including "Yewell" and "Yancy"? It is hard to assess this conditional probability with any accuracy, but it is fair to say that the presence of certain names within the family in subsequent generations ALTERS and enhances the probability that a particular name is present in the generation under study. Probably more importantly, the ABERNATHY family -- the family of the wife of David Y. ROPER -- believes that Dionysia Abernathy ROPER's brother was named John Young ABERNATHY (b 27 Nov 1798 - NC, d 29 Oct 1849 - Giles, TN). That ascription might or might not be correct. But SUPPOSING that it WAS correct and further supposing that the ABERNATHY and ROPER families migrated together in trace, how does that ALTER the probability that the "Y." in David Y. ROPER stands for "Yates"? David Y. ROPER is KNOWN to have married Dionysia ABERNATHY, whose brother's middle initial was KNOWN TO BE "Y". The assertion that this David was related to William ROPER and Keziah YATES is BARE speculation supported by NO FACTS AT ALL. It is further KNOWN that a Ewel ROPER served in the Tennessee militia in Blount County, further upstream on the Tennessee River from Giles County and "Ewel" seems to have later been spelled "Yewall". Thus Ewel is closer both in TIME and geographically than "Yates", and "Yewall" appears in these families in subsequent generations. While "Yewall" is a very RARE name compared to either YOUNG or YATES, it is KNOWN to be present in the family. That ROPERs had a middle initial "Y" is NO PROOF of a relationship to William ROPER and Keziah YATES absent some actual evidence that the given name was "Yates" rather than something else starting with a "Y". Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: This thread, seeking to link the Maury County ROPER family to William ROPER and Keziah YATES seems to me to be EXCEPTIONALLY WEAK on facts and analysis. In this post, you state: > "That a William Roper was one of the sons of David Roper of Caswell County, NC, > who married a Sarah, appears to be without question. The L. David Roper database has > this entry: > > Caswell Co. Deeds: H:85. 25 Sep 1792. 50 acres. William Roper of Caswell Co. "for > Love Goodwill & Effection that I bear unto David Roper & Sarah Roper my father & mother" > Land in Caswell on Rattlesnake Creek; land where on said David Roper now lives; "beg. > Edmund Alleys SW corner runing E. 61 poles thence S. with Edward Swans line to my > corner thence W. with Hubberts line to Rattle Snake Creek then down the creek to white > oak Saplin neare the upper part or fence of my plantation thence meare a NE Course to > the first Station". "During their natural life" Test: Edmd. Alley, James Yates William X Roper" Unquestionably, there was a David ROPER who is known to have settled on Rattlesnake Creek in what is now Caswell County, NC, from a very early date. David ROPER is shown in the Orange County records as early as 1757. The original deed for Rattlesnake Creek dates from 1760. Later, there is a record that one David ROPER, of Caswell, NC, sold some land to another David ROPER, of Caswell, NC, in 1762. A Charles City County Court minute entry memorializing the proof of the deed survives. The deed itself no longer seems to exist. The LOCATION of the land is NOT given. One possibility is that the deed reflects land in Charles City County. Another possibility is that a deed for land ELSEWHERE was PROVEN in a Charles City County Court, just a people today use notaries to authenticate a deed. Thus one bare possibility is that this deed was a conveyance of the Rattlesnake Creek property from one David ROPER to another. While you are certainly correct that the early Caswell data is SPARSE, there is more than a little data which FAILS TO SUPPORT and which seems to almost conclusively defeat your analysis and ascription. Moreover, most of the analysis relies on deed abstracts when NO ONE seems to have been willing to do the basic genealogical chose of pulling examining and transcribing the underlying deeds. * We have a deed abstract shown at Dave's NC ROPER Family page: "A:186-20 Jan 1779 224 acres. David Roper to William Roper (both of Caswell Co.). Land in Caswell Co. on both sides of Rattlesnake Creek. [Description identical to that of Orange Co. deed 3:454. Wit: James Bradley & David Cochran. David X Roper" We have the very specific information that William ROPER married a Keziah YATES on 31 Aug 1781 in Caswell County, NC. This seems to show a David ROPER selling land to William ROPER, who seems to have reasonably recently reached majority and is ready to venture out on his own and start a family. The NEXT actual primary mention seems to be the abstracted record showing that "C:1: William Roper to Robert Morroe for 400 lbs 38 acres adjacent David Roper, the tract Morrow has now in his possession. Also signed by Keziah Roper 13 Jan 1784 Wit: Thomas Tarpley, James Bradly." This would seem to show that Keziah ROPER was still living on 13 Jan 1784. The 1790 Census data for Caswell County did NOT survive. Thus, while William ROPER seems to be on a Personal Property Tax List for Caswell, NC, THERE IS NO CENSUS RECORD THAT REFLECTS EITHER THAT KEZIAH IS STILL LIVING OR THAT WILLIAM AND KEZIAH EVER HAD ANY CHILDREN. The next actual record seems to be the record reflected in this Abstract: "H:13: William Roper to James Montgomery for 30 lbs 16 acres and 63 poles on Rattlesnake Creek adj. Roper, Saml Welch. 18 Oct 1791. Wit: Lancelot Johnston." Note that Keziah ROPER is NOT shown to have signed this deed releasing her dower interest in the property. Perhaps the buyer is simply IGNORANT and didn't realize that he wasn't getting good title to the land if Keziah was living. But even the illiterate in those days were rarely stupid enough to take a deed for value that wouldn't have survived a challenge. In fact, in proving the deed, if Keziah was living, the Court would likely have questioned the witnesses as to Keziah's assent before ordering that the deed be recorded. The immediate following year, William ROPER is shown to be the maker of a second deed, abstracted as follows: "H:85: William Roper to David & Sarah Roper 25 Sep 1792" Towards the bottom of Dave's NC ROPER Family page, Dave gives us the following additional abstracted information: "Caswell Co. Deeds: H:85. 25 Sep 1792. 50 acres. William Roper of Caswell Co. "for Love Goodwill & Effection that I bear unto David Roper & Sarah Roper my father & mother" Land in Caswell on Rattlesnake Creek; land where on said David Roper now lives; "beg. Edmund Alleys SW corner runing E. 61 poles thence S. with Edward Swans line to my corner thence W. with Hubberts line to Rattle Snake Creek then down the creek to white oak Saplin neare the upper part or fence of my plantation thence meare a NE Course to the first Station". "During their natural life" Test: Edmd. Alley, James Yates William X Roper" Once again, William ROPER purports to convey land he owns to someone else, but there is NO EXECUTION of the deed by Keziah. THIS SUPPORTS THE RATHER STRONG INFERENCE THAT KEZIAH WAS THEN ALREADY DEAD. THERE IS SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE THAT KEZIAH YATES ROPER WAS LIVING AFTER 13 JAN 1784. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WILLIAM ROPER AND KEZIAH YATES HAD EVEN A SINGLE CHILD, MALE OR FEMALE, THOUGH I SUSPECT THAT THEY PROBABLY HAD A CHILD OR TWO BEFORE KEZIAH'S DEATH AT A YOUNG AGE. * * You next assert: > "After this transfer of property, William Roper disappears from the records of Caswell > County, NC. Where did he go? Although the evidence is scant because of a lack of > historical records, circumstantial evidence suggests he moved to Tennessee." What is the EVIDENCE?? You fail to mention it! Are you asserting that the presence of a William ROPER in Tennessee in 1820 is some evidence that William ROPER, last seen in Caswell in 1792 is the SAME William ROPER who is found in the 1820 Census for Tennessee?? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE OF THIS? WHERE DID WILLIAM ROPER LIVE DURING THE 28 YEAR PERIOD BEFORE HE REAPPEARS IN THE CENSUS AND WHAT EVIDENCE SUPPORTS SUCH AN ASCRIPTION?? * Now lets stick with "facts" for a moment. William ROPER is KNOWN to have sold land in Caswell, NC, to David and Sarah ROPER. A David ROPER is KNOWN to have DIED in Edgefield, SC, leaving a widow named "Sarah" and a son named William ROPER. That's one hell of a coincidence isn't it? A William ROPER is also KNOWN to have died in Edgefield, SC. * For YEARS, dishonest genealogists have been ascribing various "children" to William ROPER and Keziah YATES even though there has NEVER BEEN A SINGLE PRIMARY RECORD, never a SINGLE MENTION ANYWHERE that would support the existence of even ONE surviving child from this marriage! I will focus on only TWO of the fraudulent ascriptions in this post: David Y. ROPER and Tennessee ROPER. But EVERY CHILD shown in ANY tree or lineage as being born to this couple is FRAUDULENTLY ASCRIBED. I have discussed both David Y. ROPER and Tennessee ROPER in previous posts. David Y. ROPER has been the subject of particularly egregious fraud, because dishonest family historians not only have falsely ascribed him as a son of William ROPER and Keziah YATES, but they have also given this David a middle name (purported to be "Yates") that NEVER APPEARS WITHIN THE RECORDS. Thus, the dishonest first INVENT the evidence that "Y." stands for "Yates". Next, they use the fabricated "evidence" to support the fraudulent ascription. This kind of deceit is pervasive in Dave ROPER's ROPER family History database and in his privately published genealogy. Whenever the data is totally LACKING a "middle name" is INVENTED and then the middle name is used as "proof" of a specious connection to some other generation or branch of the family for which there is NO PRIMARY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Examples of this within these dishonest files are TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION. Even worse, dishonest genealogists ALTERED David Y. ROPER's KNOWN date of death, so that they could push his year of birth forward several years. David Y. ROPER's grave marker shows that he was born BEFORE William ROPER and Keziah YATES married. David Y. ROPER's ancient grave marker is REAL. David Y. ROPER's middle name is INVENTED and his KNOWN year of birth establishes that the ONLY way he could be a child of this couple is if he was born out of wedlock. * Tennessee ROPER is an UNLIKELY candidate to be a son of this couple as he was born AFTER it appears Keziah Yates ROPER was ALREADY DEAD. You posted the extant RICKETTS Family Bible records which shown Tennessee ROPER's precise date of birth. * Every child ascribed to William ROPER and Keziah YATES is not merely "speculatively ascribed", but rather FRAUDULENTLY ASCRIBED, because there is NO EVIDENCE that Keziah Yates ROPER was even living at the dates of birth of the various "children" and others, like David Y. ROPER were born BEFORE the known date of this couple's marriage. This is dishonest ROPER genealogy AT ITS WORST. But these fraudulent ascriptions have been republished SO MANY TIMES, like the totally FICTIONAL "John ROPER Jr." purported to have been born in 1660, who is fraudulently shown to head almost all ROPER families, that this lie told over and over again seems to have gained credibility and widespread acceptance despite not only the complete LACK OF EVIDENCE, but when the extant evidence suggests that the ascription is UNLIKELY TO BE TRUE. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lewis Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/567.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In searching for something else, I stumbled across this old thread and my post from more than a decade ago regarding the Stewart County, TN, ROPER, families. While I believe that the Census data posted was correct, I also posted above the following: > "This Charles ROPER is shown to be the SON of Charles ROPER (b 19 Apr 1758 - > Dinwiddie, VA, d 1 Mar 1837 - Fork Inn, Dinwiddie, VA) and the grandson of Charles > and Ann Goodwyn ROPER." At the date of this post, I failed to realize the complete UNRELIABILITY of unsupported assertions appearing within Dave ROPER's ROPER Family History database. I know of NO PRIMARY information which supports an ascription of this Charles ROPER as the son of Charles ROPER (b 19 Apr 1758 - Dinwiddie, VA, d 1 Mar 1837 - Fork Inn, Dinwiddie, VA). NEITHER am I aware of ANY data which would support the ascription of this Charles ROPER as a son of James C. ROPER, another ascription for which there seems to be no actual primary supporting data. In my view, the most promising CANDIDATE to be a parent of this Charles ROPER is the Ann ROPER found residing in Northampton County, NC, who is mentioned along with Charles ROPER in Angelica LEWIS' Will. This is NOT an ascription, but rather a REPUDIATION of the erroneous and unsupported ascription given in the earlier post and a suggested more promising avenue of inquiry. I APOLOGIZE to members of the Stewart ROPER family and others for previously republishing the false information which has previously appeared in Dave ROPER's databases. I have long since learned my lesson and now KNOW not to rely on any of the assertions therein. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In the L David Roper database for Roper Families in Tennessee, there is mention of a Will of William Loving of Maury County, TN that I had not noticed before: "Maury Co. Court Minutes: Will of William Loving, Sr. 3 Feb 1826. Wit: William X Roper Settlement with William Rutledge, adm. of John Edleman, decd, 22 Feb 1826 ... T. Roper" The above records seem to be two separate entries on two separate dates. The second entry is a settlement with William Rutledge, which appears to be connected in some way to a T. Roper (possibly Tennessee Roper). I have not seen the original of the Will of William Loving or the original of the Maury County Court minutes. The transcription states that a William Roper witnessed the Will. In my previous post, I mentioned that William Roper is seen in the 1820 Maury County, TN census on page 11 as age 45 . David Y. Roper also can be seen as age 26-44 in the image at Ancestry.com on page 2 of what appears to be a different set of 1820 Maury County, TN records. Just two properties from David Y. Roper we can find William Loving, age 45 , with a large family. Towards the bottom of the page we find Tennessee Roper, age 19-25. Secondary sources state that William Loving's will was dated July 8, 1824 and that he died that year in Maury County. Secondary sources further state that William Loving had, among a number of other children, a child named Henry Loving, b. October 25, 1818. Henry would have been a minor when his father William died. Secondary sources also make reference to the following deed book record, which I have not seen in the original: "In deed book records, Vol 1, Book V, page 602, Wayne Co TN. is recorded a power of attorney by Henry Loving, granting power of attorney to Tennessee Roper. Recorded 1-6-1839. The record says that Henry empowers Roper to attempt recovery for Henry of his rightful share of the estate of William Loving Sr. Henry attested to the power of attorney in Wayne County, TN. on 10-29-1839. On 11-1-1839, David Loving attested in Wayne Co. that his brother Henry was 21 yrs old on 10-25-1839. A witness to Henry's attachment was G. G. Grimes referred to later in the Document as Green Grimes." There was only one William Roper in the 1820 Maury County, TN census. Tennessee Roper named a child William Roper, b. August 19,1830, according to the Ricketts Family bible. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Raper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The following ROPERs are shown within the Index to the Pension Files for the War of 1812: David ROPER, Capt E Buchanon's Co Tenn Mil Henry C. ROPER, Sgt, Capt. Louis POINDEXTER's Co., Va. Militia (OR Capt. Nicholas POINDEXTER) Holly ROPER, Sgt., Capt BORESTLER's Company, Ohio Militia John ROPER, Captain, Tennessee Militia John C. ROPER, Capt. DOLASON's Company, Kentucky Militia John M. ROPER, Private, Capt. R. GRAVES' Company, Viginia Militia; Private, Capt. John TYLER's Company, Viginia Militia John Y. ROPER, Corporal, Capt. METCALF's Tennessee Militia Robert ROPER John ROPPER, Private, Captain Benjamin HASKELL's Company, Massachusetts Militia * Anna ROPER, spouse of John C. ROPER (see above) Mildred A. ROPER, spouse of Daniel M. BLACK, Corporal, Capt. Samuel JOHNSON's Company, Virginia Militia Ruth ROPER, spouse of Robert ROPER * * * * * DAVID ROPER The Index entry for David ROPER shows this David ROPER to be the David ROPER who served in Capt. E. BUCHANON's Co., Tennessee Militia. The Pension Application is shown on the Index card to refer to file numbers: "S.O. 16326" and "S.W. 10460" [Image 88 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VNT : accessed 05 Apr 2014), David Roper, ; citing military unit Capt E Buchanon's Co Tenn Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. This seems to be the SAME David ROPER identified in the Index to 1812 Service records as: ROPER, David, Bunch's Reg't (1814), E. Tennessee Militia, Private [Image 602] * In another post, I showed that this was David ROPER (b 08 Jun 1792 - SC, d 17 Apr 1878 - Lawrence, MO), who served with Ewel ROPER, in Edward BUCHANAN's Company from Blount County, Tennessee: "TN Militia Service of David ROPER (b 08 Jun 1792 - SC, d 17 Apr 1878 - Lawrence, MO)" (18 Mar 2014 1:35AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1758.4/mb.ashx This David ROPER is known to have been born in South Carolina, migrated to St. Louis, MO, by 1830, settled in Greene County, MO, and later Lawrence MO. Although this David ROPER has been specualtive ascribed as a member of the Maury County, Tennessee, ROPER family, there seems to be NO EVIDENCE supporting this ascription and no one seems to have ever bothered to obtain and transcribe David ROPER's extant pension file to learn his true origin and lineage. * * * HENRY C. ROPER The Index entry for Henry C. ROPER shows this Henry C. ROPER to be the Henry C. ROPER who served as a Sergeant in Capt. Louis POINDEXTER's Co., Va. Militia. The Pension Application is shown on the Index card to refer to file numbers: "S.O. 34516" [Image 89 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VNY : accessed 05 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper, ; citing military unit Sgt Capt Louis Poindexter Co Va Mil Or Capt Nicholas Poindexter, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. There are three candidates to be Henry ROPER amongst those shown in the Index to the 1812 Service Records at the U.S. Archives: ROPER, Henry, 1 Reg't (Yancey's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 616] ROPER, Henry, 4 Regiment Virginia Militia (Lt. Col. McDowell, Lt. Col. Koontz, Lt. Col. Chilton) [Image 617] ROPER, Henry, 5 Regiment Virginia Militia, Private [Image 618] Secondary sources show aboth a Lewis POINDEXTER and a Nicholas POINDEXTER served in the Virginia Militia during the War of 1812: Lewis D. POINDEXTER, 1 Reg't Cav. (HOLCOMBE'S) Virginia Mil Nicholas J. POINDEXTER, Captain, 40 Regiment Virginia Militia. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~poindexterfamily/PoindexterWar.html * The Index to War of 1812 Pension Applications shows a pension application for a Lewis D. POINDEXTER who is shown to ha ve been a Private in Capt John B ROYALL's Company, Virginia Militia. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZS-WNT : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Lewis D Or Louis Poindexter, ; citing military unit Pvt Capt John B Royall's Co Va Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 75, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847505. No pension application for Nicholas J. POINDEXTER is shown in the Index. * The Index to the 1812 Service Records at the U.S. Archives also shows a Lewis D. POINDEXTER who served as a Private in 1 Reg't Cav. (Holcombe's) Virginia Militia. This seems to be the ONLY Lewis or Louis POINDEXTER shown. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Service Records, 1812-1815," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-21911-58422-86?cc=1916219&wc=M6YX-3MS:203271701 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Pl - Poq > image 1069 of 2684; citing NARA microfilm publication M602. By contrast, the Index shows a service record for a Captain Nicholas J. POINDEXTER serving in the 40 Regiment Virginia Militia as POINDEXTER family secondary sources had shown. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Service Records, 1812-1815," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21911-55140-16?cc=1916219&wc=M6YX-3MS:203271701 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Pl - Poq > image 1072 of 2684; citing NARA microfilm publication M602. I did NOT check other POINDEXTER given names for POINDEXTERs who ahd served as Captains. * Nicholas J. POINDEXTER married in Louisa County, Virginia in December 1806 and is enumerated residing in Louisa County in the 1820 Census. The 40th Regiment seems to have been mostly a louisa County, Virginia, unit. It is UNCLEAR how Henry C. ROPER found his way to Louisa County to enlist in the 40th Regiment. His widowed mother Frances seems to have remarried Charles WALKER in Campbell County, Virginia, by 14 Feb 1810 and Charles WALKER is enumerated in Campbell County in the 1810 Census and was still there in 1820. * This seems to be Henry C. ROPER (b 27 Aug 1799 - VA, d 13 May 1882 - Sarcoxie, Jasper, MO). This Henry ROPER was enumerated in Lynchburg, Campbell County, VA, in 1820. See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLH-R9R : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry Roper, Lynchburg, Campbell, Virginia; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 135, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 129, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0193688. In 1830 and 1840, Henry C. ROPER seems to have resided in Trigg County, Kentucky. See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHPC-YH7 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper, Not Stated, Trigg, Kentucky; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 6, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 42, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007821. "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHTP-8YK : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper, Not Stated, Trigg, Kentucky; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 285, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 124, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0007832. This Henry C. ROPER, age 51, born in VA, was enumerated residing with wife Nancy and his children in Montgomery County, IL, in 1850. That ALL of the children, with ages ranging from 10 to 20, are shown to be born in Kentucy, would seem to confim the migration path. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M85D-2D3 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper, Montgomery county, Montgomery, Illinois, United States; citing family 831, NARA microfilm publication M432. Henry C. ROPER was still residing in Montgomery County, IL, in 1860, with wife Nancy and youngest children Victoria and James. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MX48-1M8 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper, N 2/3 Of T 7 N R 3 W Of 3d P M, Montgomery, Illinois, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 206, household ID 1507, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803214. In 1870, Henry is enumerated residing within the household of Thomas and Elizaabeth LUCAS, his son-in-law and daughter. See: "United States Census, 1870," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M468-K4R : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry C Roper in household of Thomas Lucas, Missouri, United States; citing p. 22, family 151, NARA microfilm publication M593, FHL microfilm 000552282. In 1880, Henry ROPER is enumerated residing in Sarcoxie, Jasper County, Missouri, with wife Nancy, daughter Victoria and granddaughter Mary, age 15. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M6XD-D3T : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Henry Roper, Sarcoxie, Jasper, Missouri, United States; citing sheet 399D, NARA microfilm publication T9. * * * HOLLY ROPER/RAPER The index entry for the Pension Record of Holly ROPER shows that this Holly ROPER served as a Sergeant in Captain BRESTLER's Company in the Ohio Militia. The Index entry sho3 Old War Invalid File No. "1338" (Bundle No. 34, Can No 13). [Image 90 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VNB : accessed 05 Apr 2014), Holly Roper, ; citing military unit Sergt Capt Borestler Ohio Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. * This a record for a Holly ROPER appears to me to actually be a pension record for a Holly RAPER, at least based upon the Indices to Census records. Holly RAPER is enumerated residing in Williamsburg, Clermont, OH, in the 1820 U.S. Census enumeration. See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLS-ZYX : accessed 09 Apr 2014), Holly Raper, Williamsburg, Clermont, Ohio; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 3, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 89, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0181395. * Holly RAPER is enumerated residing in Batavia, Clermont, OH, in the 1830 Census enumeration. See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHGJ-LG7 : accessed 09 Apr 2014), Holly Raper, Batavia, Clermont, Ohio; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 177, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 128, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0337939. * Holly RAPER is enumerated residing in Tate, Clermont, OH, in the 1840 Census enumeration. See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHTR-G7B : accessed 09 Apr 2014), Holley Raper, Tate, Clermont, Ohio; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 146, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 384, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0020161. * Holly RAPER, age 59 (b abt 1791), born Pennsylvania, is enumerated residing in Miami, Clermont, OH, in the 1850 Census enueration, with wife Sarah, age 55 (b 1795 - VA), and five children. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MX32-BBY : accessed 09 Apr 2014), Holly Raper, Miami, Clermont, Ohio, United States; citing family 859, NARA microfilm publication M432. * In 1860, Holly RAPER, age 69, was enumerated residing with his family in Union Township, Jasper, Illinois, within the household of T. J. WATKINS. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MX4P-BG3 : accessed 09 Apr 2014), Holly Raper in household of T J Watkins, Union Township, Jasper, Illinois, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 573, household ID 59, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803187. * * ALL of these Census records are Indexed under RAPER rather than ROPER. * * Holly RAPER is shown to have married Susan YATES on 10 Mar 1814 in Clermont County, Ohio. * * * JOHN ROPER The index entry for the Pension Record of John ROPER shows that this John ROPER served as a Captain in the Tennessee Militia. The Index entry does NOT reflect a Pension Application. Rather, the Index entry reflects John ROPER Bounty Land Warrants: "23280-80-50" and "6920-80-55". [Image 91 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VN1 : accessed 05 Apr 2014), John Roper, ; citing military unit Captain Tennessee Militia, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. * * * JOHN C. ROPER The index entry for the Pension Record of John C. ROPER shows that this John C. ROPER served in Capt. DOLASON's Company, Kentucky Militia. The Index entry shows Pension Application Number: "Wid. Orig. 44464". [Image 92 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VJM : accessed 05 Apr 2014), John C Roper, ; citing military unit Capt Dolason's Co Ky Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. Check DOLASON against Captain Thomas DOLLARHIDE, 3rd Company, Rennick's Battalion, Kentucky Mounted Infantry. http://books.google.com/books?id=UAg8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&ots=zaQa8s_AHJ&dq=Captain Kentucky militia 1 "Rifle Regiment" Allen&pg=RA1-PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false * * * JOHN M. ROPER The index entry for the Pension Record of John M. ROPER shows that this John M. ROPER served as a Private in both Capt. R. GRAVES' Company, Viginia Militia and Capt. John TYLER's Company, Viginia Militia. The Index entry shows Pension Application Number: "Serv. Orig. 25787". [Image 93 of 1052]. Of course, the actual pension file will no doubt furnish a wealth of other additional information both as to this ancestor's war service, place of residence at application and possible lineage. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VJS : accessed 05 Apr 2014), John M Roper, ; citing military unit Pvt Capt R Grave's Co Va Mil Pvt Capt John Tyler's Co Va Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. >From the U.S. Archives Index of War of 1812 Service Records, we find the following John ROPERs as having served in various Virginia Militias during the War of 1812: ROPER, John, 1 Reg't (Yancey's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 626] ROPER, John M., 2 Corps d'Elite (Green's) Virginia Militia, Private [638] ROPER, John, 2 Reg't (Sharp's) Virginia Militia, Private (See also 3 Regt. (Boykins) Virginia Militia) [Image 630] ROPER, John, 6 Reg't (Coleman's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 632] ROPER, John, 6 Reg't Art'y (Read, Jr.'s) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 633] ROPER, John, 23 Regiment (Brown's) Virginia Militia, Sergeant [Image 634] ROPER, John, 33 Reg't (Mayo's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 635] ROPER, John, 39 Regiment Virginia Militia, Private [Image 636] ROPER, John, 52 Reg't (Christian's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 637] Of these, only ONE is conspicuously a John M. RPOER and that is the John M. ROPER shown to have served in the Second Corp d'Elite Virginia Militia under Colonel Moses GREEN. As it happens, one of the companies of 2 Corps d'Elite was commanded by Captain John TYLER. Second Corps D'Elite was commanded by Colonel Moses GREEN. One Company from Augusta County under Cpatain John LINK. A Compnay under Captain William LEIGH may have been from Campbell County. "Flying Artillery" of Capt Tunstall Shelton's Co. Captain S Campbell (Rockbridge) A letter from John TYLER possibly gives some additional insight into the possible service of this of John M. ROPER in the War of 1812: "Sherwood Forest Chs City C.H. March 27, 1855 Dear Sir: I commanded a company of Riflemen during the war of 1812 -- which after serving with the 52 Regiment of Virginia for a month at Williamsburg and Providence Forge in the county of New Kent, was transfer's to the 2d Elite corps of Virginia at Charles City Court House under the command of Col. afterwards General Moses Green, where I also serv's a month as appears by my muster rolls of file among the army returns which I presume are in teh possession of your office -- seeing that by the action of the last Congress I am entitled to land bounty and presuming that no other evidence is necessary to entitle me to it than a reference to information already before you, I respectfully solicit your attention to the claim. I have the honor to be Truly & Resply yrs, John Tyler P.S. You will find my servant William most probably entered William Short -- also on the muster roll -- He acted as my Bowman -- Is he not entitled to a grant of land? If so I should be highly gratified to hand his patent to him-- The Commissioner--" [This letter is in the Dreer Collection, Historical Society of Pennsylvania] "Letters of Presidents of the United States and Ladies of the White House", The Pennsylvania Magazine of History and Biography, Volume 25, p. 533: http://books.google.com/books?id=rtKM-pDeWbIC&lpg=PA533&ots=VKQy0k44a0&dq=Corps d'Elite "Moses Green" "Virginia Militia"&pg=PA533#v=onepage&q&f=false This letter affords us some very good insight into both the location and service of Captain TYLER's Company. We learn that his Company had served both within 52 Regiment Virginia Militia as well as under Second Corps D'Elite Virginia Militia and this is John TYLER who resides in Charles City County. This seems to suggest that both of these muster records might pertain to John M. ROPER: ROPER, John, 52 Reg't (Christian's) Virginia Militia, Private [Image 637] ROPER, John M., 2 Corps d'Elite (Green's) Virginia Militia, Private [638] The orderly book for 1814 for the 2 Corp a'dElite Virginia Militia is amongst the holdings of the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. See "Second Elite Corps of the Virginia Militia orderly book 1814" http://discover.hsp.org/Record/hsp.ead.at01-Am.667/Holdings#tabnav * * * JOHN Y. ROPER The Index entry for John Y. ROPER shows this John Y. ROPER to have served as a Corporal in Capt. METCALF's Co., Tennessee Militia. The Index Entry does NOT reflect a Pension Application, but rather an indicationof application for Bounty Land. The Index Entry reflected Warrant Nos. 13713-80-50 and 33438-80-55. [Image 94 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VJ3 : accessed 05 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, ; citing military unit Corpl Capt Metcalf Tenn Mil, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. This seems almost certainly to be the John Y. ROPER shown in the Index to 1812 Service records as: ROPER, John, 2 Reg't Mounted Gunmen (Williamson's) Tennessee Volunteers, Corporal [Image 631] The Index entry for John Y. ROPER's Pension Application seems to correspond exactly with the Index Entry for the Service record shown immediately above. A sumamry of the regimental history of the 2nd Regiment West Tennessee Volunteer Mounted Gunmen shows this regiment was commanded by Col. Thomas WILLIAMSON and that one of the Captains was Captain Anthony METCALF. The unit is shown to have drawn its soldiers from Bedford, Davidson, Robertson, Rutherford, Sumner, Williamson, Wilson, Giles, and Smith Counties. This regiment seems to have been called to duty from September 1814 to April 1815, fighting at Penscola and New Orleans. See: http://www.tennessee.gov/tsla/history/military/1812reg.htm Captain METCALF's Company seems to have been mustered into service on September 28, 1814, and released from duty on March 28, 1815. A transcription of Captain METCALF's Muster Roll appears within "The War of 1812: Smith Countians Go to the War", by Sue MAGGART, Smith County Historical and Genealogical Society, Vol. 10, No. 1 (Winter 1998), pages 6 to 12. John ROPER is shown as a Corporal on this Roll. See: http://www.ajlambert.com/history/hst_magg.pdf * * John Y. ROPER first appears within the U.S. Census residing in Smith County, TN, in the 1820 Census enumeration (Indexed as "ROSSIE" at the FamilySearch.org site): John Y ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Smith] John Y. ROPER is shown to be age 16 to 25 (b abt 1795-1804). The female in John Y. ROPER's household is shown to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94). There is a male child under age 10 and a female child under age 10 residing within this household. See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLT-8XB : accessed 06 Apr 2014), John Y Rossie, Not Stated, Smith, Tennessee; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 43, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 125, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0193687. * John Y. ROPER is enumerated in Sumner County, TN, in 1830, however the record is Indexed as "ROSSER" at FamilySearch.org See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHP4-58V : accessed 06 Apr 2014), John Y Rosser, Not Stated, Sumner, Tennessee; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 174, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 181, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024539. * John Y. ROPER is again enumerated in Sumner County, TN, in the 1840 Census enuemration. See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHT1-VFC : accessed 06 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, Not Stated, Sumner, Tennessee; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 353, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 534, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024549. A William ROPER is also enumerated in Sumner County in 1840. See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHT1-2F2 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), William Roper, Not Stated, Sumner, Tennessee; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 406, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 534, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024549. This seems to possibly be the William ROPER who married Margaret SPENCER on 05 Mar 1835 in Sumner, TN. * In 1850, John Y. ROPER, age 56 (b abt 1794 - NC), is again enumerated residing in Sumner County, TN, with wife Sarah ROPER, age 62 (b abt 1788 - NC). Sarah ROPER is consistent in age with the female shown in the 1820 Census record. Also in this household are another younger John Y. ROPER, age 28, born Tennessee, John E. WOOD, age 16, and Mary E. WOOD, age 15, also each born in Tennessee. John Y. ROPER is shown to own real estate worth $10,000. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC69-NZ5 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, Sumner county, Sumner, Tennessee, United States; citing family 93, NARA microfilm publication M432. In adjacent Smith County, TN, the 1850 Census shows a William ROPER, age 76 (b abt 1776 - NC) together with Elizabeth ROPER, age 56 (b abt 1794). This William ROPER is consistent in age with either the William ROPER (b bef 1776) enumerated in Maury County, TN, in 1820, or the William ROPER (b bef 1776) enumerated in Williamson County, TN, the same year. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11097-126449-57?cc=1401638 : accessed 06 Apr 2014), Tennessee > Smith > Smith county > image 90 of 345; citing NARA microfilm publication M432. * John Y. ROPER is again enumerated in Sumner County, TN, in the 1860 Census enumeration at age 66 (b abt 1794 - NC), giving a second precise indication of his year of birth. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8TR-35X : accessed 06 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, District No 1, Sumner, Tennessee, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 97, household ID 665, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 805275. * * This John Y. ROPER seems to have been amongst those victimized by some of the most egregious genealogiscal fraud. He has been falsely ascribed as a son of William ROPER and Keziah YATES, despite the fact that he seems to have been born after Keziah Yates ROPER was almost certainly DEAD. In support of this ascription, these same dishonest researchers have ascribed a middle name "Yates" to this John ROPER, despite the fact taht there seems to be no primary record which would support this ascription. Then, the invented middle name of "Yates" is used to "prove" that this John Y. ROPER is Keziah Yates ROPER's son, seemingly born posthumously. Despite John Y. ROPER's patriotic service as a Veteran of the War of 1812, for which there is an extant Pension Application, rather than celebrating this ancestor and getting his lineage RIGHT, dishonest and lazy researchers have again disgraced the family name and John Y. ROPER's memory by simply making up family connections for which n! o evidence exists at all. Hopefully, one day, some member of this branch of the ROPER family will decide to remove the stain of the fraud by obtaining the Pension Application and actually ascertaining John Y. ROPER's correct lineage. * * * ROBERT ROPER The Index entry for Robert ROPER shows no information as to the identity of his military unit or nature and timing of his service. The Pension Application is shown on the Index card to refer to file numbers: "Wid.Orig. 43026" The application seems to have been made by Ruth ROPER, Robert ROPER's widow [Image 95 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VJQ : accessed 05 Apr 2014), Robert Roper, ; citing military unit , NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. * * * JOHN ROPPER The Index entry for John ROPPER shows this John ROPPER to have served in Capt. Benjamin HASKELL's Co., Massachusetts Militia. The Pension Application is shown on the Index card to refer to file numbers: "Serv. Orig. 8889" and "Serv. Cert. 4947" [Image 97 of 1052]. See: "United States War of 1812 Index to Pension Application Files, 1812-1910," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X8ZQ-VJ4 : accessed 05 Apr 2014), John Ropper, ; citing military unit Pvt Capt Benjamin Haskell's Co Mass Mili, NARA microfilm publication M313, roll 81, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 847511. * * * MILDRED A. ROPER Mildred A. ROPER is shown to have married Daniel BLACK on 26 Sep 1818 in Campbell County. Secondary sources show this Mildred to be daughter of William C. ROPER and Frances JACKSON and sister of Henry C. ROPER (b 27 Aug 1799 - VA, d 13 May 1882 - Sarcoxie, Jasper, MO). Obtaining the Pension file for Mildred Roper BLACK might yield some additional insight into this ROPER family. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Dolason, Dollison, Dallarhide, Dollarhite, Dollenson, Cowan, Cowen, Evans Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.4.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Even though Annie -- Nave ROPER's Pension Application contains many specific details, it remains somewhat ambiguous and, apparently, in places contradictory as to several details. I am working from the secondary accounts of the Pension Application cited by Frank BATCHELOR, above. The account states "She stated her husband had served in Capt. Dollison's Company, 5th Rgt in the War of 1812." Fifth Regiment is NOT sufficiently precise without a specification of the type of regiment OR the identity of the commanding officer. During the War of 1812, there was a Fifth Regiment (Lewis') Kentucky Militia and also a Fifth Regiment (Renick's) Mounted Kentucky Volunteers. There was also a Fifth Regiment (Booth's) East Tennessee Militia. * * * Officers of Renick's Regiment of Kentucky Mounted Volunteers, a unit organized on August 13, 1813, for the Thames Campaign, and under the command of Col. Henry RENICK are shown on pages 60-1 of the article "": http://books.google.com/books?id=UAg8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&ots=zaQa8s_AHJ&pg=RA1-PA60#v=onepage&q&f=false Company commanders of the seven Companies include: 1st Company - Captain Samuel ROBERTSON 2nd Company - Captain John HORNBACK 3rd Company - Captain Thomas W. ATKINSON 4th Company - Captain Thomas S. T. MOSS 5th Company - Captain William R. McGARY Some secondary sources seem to show that this unit was also commanded by a Col. SOUTH. * Another Battalion under RENICK's Command is shown to be Renick's Battalion, Kentucky Mounted Militia, organized on September 18, 1812, Commanded by Major Henry RENICK. The Companies of this unit are shown to be: 1st Company - Captain William BLACK 2nd Company - Captain William SMITH 3rd Company - Captain Thomas DOLLARHIDE [at page 62] http://books.google.com/books?id=UAg8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&ots=zaQa8s_AHJ&pg=RA1-PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false It seems to me that "Capt. Dollison's Company" Company is very closely conforms to the name Captain Thomas DOLLARHIDE. * * There are several names in the early Kentucky Census enumerations which closely resemble DOLASON, DOLLISON, DOLLARHIDE: Francis DOLLAHITE [Mercer, KY 1810] Jacob DOLLASON [Logan, KY 1810] Frances DOLLYHITE [Bullitt, KY 1820] Andrew DOLLITSON [Livingston, KY 1820] John DOLLARHIDE [Campbell, KY 1820] Thomas DOLLARHIDE [Somerset, Pulaski, KY 1820] Andrew DOLLITSON [Livingston, KY 1820] John DOLLARHIDE [Campbell, KY 1830] In my view, the closeness of conformance of the names DOLLISON and DOLLARHIDE, when combined with the complete ABSENCE of ANY DOLLISONs from the Census enumeration, when combined with the information that a Thomas DOLLARHIDE served as a Captain in a Company under the commanded Major Henry RENICK's Battalion makes this a reasonable ascription. * * However, it should also be noted that there are quite a few more DOLLISONs and DOLLARHIDEs in Tennessee: Jacob Dollenson (Unknown) [Stewart, TN 1820] Tyree Dollence (Unknown) [Maury, TN 1820] Willis Dollehile (Unknown) [Humphreys, TN 1820] Cornelius Dollahite [Humphreys, TN 1820] James Dollison [Henry, TN 1830] Nathaniel Dollarhite [Henry, TN 1830] Robert Dollahite [Henry, TN 1830] Wilie Dollarhite [Henry, TN 1830] Lemuel Dollison [Williamson, TN 1830] Beley Dollison [Roane, TN 1840] James Dollison [Roane, TN 1840] Daniel Dollison [Grainger, TN 1840] Nancy Dollahite [Henry, TN 1840] Nathaniel Dollahite [Henry, TN 1840] Jessee Dollarhide [De Kalb, TN 1840] It seems to me that a DOLLISON or DOLLARHIDE residing in a Tennessee county immediately adjacent to the ROPER properties in Cumberland and Monroe Counties might be compelling (e.g. Overton or Clay Counties), the appearance of these families in Maury (South of Nashville) as well as Humphreys and Stewart, TN, on the Tennessee River well to the West of Nashville, makes them poor candidates to explain the origin of Captain DOLLISON. * * Some additional insight can be garnered by looking at the other officers of 3rd Company: Lieutenant John COWAN and Ensign Jesse EVANS. Although there are several John COWAN/COWENs enumerated in Kentucky in 1820, it is interesting that one of these is shown to reside in Pulaski, KY, and another in Paoli, Cumberland, Kentucky. The ONLY Jesse EVANS enumerated in Kentucky in 1820 was shown to reside in Montgomery County, KY, well to the North. In 1830, there are several Jesse EVANSes residing in Kentucky. One of these is in Montgomery another in Fleming County, a county nearby to Montgomery but well to the North. The third is found in Clay County, KY, two counties to the East of Pulaski. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.4.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Thank you so much for sharing the fulsome secondary accounts as to the militia service of John C. ROPER (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO), as reflected in his widow's pension application! For the benefit of yourself and others interested in the Kentucky militia service of ROPER ancestors, I wanted to share some additional thoughts and insight into both the nature of militia service and the completeness of the extant militia rolls which may further inform and understanding and appreciation of John C. ROPER's War of 1812 service. * First, it is important to understand that service in militias in that era tended to be mandatory. While a survey of the precise statutes then in effect would be more instructive, a quick look at provisions in the Kentucky Constitutions gives some insight. Each of the following is taken from "History and texts of the three constitutions of Kentucky", by Bennett Henderson Young (Louisville: Courier-Journal Job Printing Company, 1890). First Constitution of Kentucky (1792) "Article VI ... Sec. 2. The free men of this Commonwealth shall be armed and disciplined for its defense. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear arms shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal service." [at page 25] http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA25#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * * Second Constitution of Kentucky (1799) "Article III Concerning the Executive Department ... Sec. 28. The freemen of this Commonwealth (negroes, mulattoes and Indians excepted) shall be armed and disciplined for its defense. Those who conscientiously scruple to bear arms shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal service." [at page 44] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA44#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * "Article VI General Provisions ... Sec. 11. All civil officers for the Commonwealth at large shall reside within the State, and all district, county or town officers within their respective districts, counties or towns (trustees of towns excepted), and shall keep their respective offices at such places therein as may be required by law; and all militia officers shall reside in the bounds of the division, brigade, regiment, battalion, or company to which they may severally belong." [at page 49] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA49#v=onepage&q=militia&f=false * * Third Constitution of Kentucky (1850) "Article VII Concerning the Militia Sec. 1. The militia of this Commonwealth shall consist of all free, able-bodied male persons (negroes, mulattoes and Indians excepted), resident in the same, between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years, except such persons as now are, or hereafter may be, exempted by the laws of the United States or of this State; but those who belong to religious societies, whose tenants forbid them to carry arms, shall not be compelled to do so, but shall pay an equivalent for personal services." [at page 78] http://books.google.com/books?id=F3tKAAAAYAAJ&dq=kentucky constitution 1799&pg=RA1-PA78#v=onepage&q&f=false * * * Although the more explicit provisions of the Constitution of 1850 were NOT in effect at the date of the War of 1812, I suspect that the actual statutes in effect under the Constitution of 1799 probably closely mirrored what was later memorialized in the later Constitution. Basically, the militia consisted of ALL able bodied adult males EXCEPT for those exempted by religious belief (e.g. Quakers) or some other statutory exemption. Other provisions of these Constitutions and statutes provided for the election of militia officers by the men of each militia. As shown, the 1799 Constitution also REQUIRED that militia officers be from the geographic area from which the unit was drawn. Thus, if one KNOWS the location of the Captain, Lieutenants and/or Cornet or Ensign, then one can usually fix the geographic location of the Company. >From this, we might garner that John C. ROPER probably DID serve in SOME Kentucky militia unit UNLESS he was still a minor or otherwise exempt by statute. Since John C. ROPER turned age 18 in 1814, it seems plausible and even likely that he might not have served in the earlier campaigns of the War of 1812, but that he would have been required to serve near the end of the War. * * * A second principle that probably bears mention is that since regular militia service was mandatory and service was UNPAID, UNLESS and EXCEPT called into actual active service for a state, in the earliest years NO Rolls were usually kept AT ALL except when militia men were mustered IN or OUT of active service for which pay was merited and earned. This was the ancient equivalent to modern state National Guard Service. A militiaman was a member of his unit. When called to active duty, he was "mustered in" and a Roll was taken as to the muster. At the conclusion of his service, he was "mustered out." Thus, for any period of active service, a soldier might appear on both the Muster Roll when mustered into service or when Mustered Out (released from) service. Since not all Muster Rolls service, a soldier might appear on one or both Rolls. A soldier Mustered In with the rest of the company might be released early due to some serious illness, injury, wound or incapacity, which might very well have been noted in an Orderly Book for the Company, which doesn't survive to the present time. Or a militiaman might have enlisted after the original must and similarly been noted in the Orderly Book for the Company, etc. Thus, NOT every member of a company would be shown on the original muster, nor everyone who served shown on the terminal muster. Every Muster Roll has some element of inherent incompleteness. The omissions were probably the most minimal for terms of service that were very brief and least complete where a company served for an extended period of time. Even as today, a Guardsman might be subject to activation and call up with a DIFFERENT COMPANY than his own, if a young man came of age after his County's Company had been mustered and sent away for service in a distant place, a practical approach would be to simply attach him to a newly mustered company in a nearby county, either by his volunteering for that Company OR by some assignment, etc. * * The article I cited in my previous post above also contains some very good insight into the completeness of the of the extant Rolls as they pertain to the regiments. I will simply quote from the article: "There appears to be good evidence that there were several regiments of Kentucky militia in the war, the rolls of which have been lost. For instance, there are still in existence a roll of the First Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen, and of the Third Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen," but there is no roll now in existence of the Second Regiment of Kentucky Riflemen, which would have contained about 500 men. Among the spoils of the battle of the Thames was a British drum which General William Henry Harrison presented to a regiment of Kentucky militia; and that old drum may still be seem in the rooms of the Kentucky State Historical Society, in the new Capitol Building in Frankfort, with the following inscription in guilt letters upon it: "Drum taken at the battle of the Thames and presented to the Forty-second Regiment of Kentucky militia for turning out more volunteers during the late war than any other regiment in Kentucky." Yet there are now in existence the records of only t! hirty-six regiment of Kentucky militia in that war; so it seems that the rolls of at least six regiments have been lost. There appears to have been a system of numbering regiments, but it apparently has not descended to these times." See: http://books.google.com/books?id=UAg8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=RA1-PA63&ots=zaQa8s_AHJ&pg=RA1-PA50#v=onepage&q&f=false The article continues with an estimate that about five out of six of eligible militia age men in Kentucky probably actually participated in the conflict. Whether that estimate is accurate is beyond the scope of this post, but it seems likely to be about the correct order of magnitude. Thus, it seems MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that John C. ROPER might have served even without the averments within his widow's pension application. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1870.4.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, Some time ago, I found the quoted article below on the Internet. I do not know who posted it, but I checked and it is still there. I have not seen the original application by Annie (Nave) Roper. Someone interested enough in this John C. Roper and who has access to the subscription website could probably pull it up. However, considering the number of details that have been included in the article, it appears to be trustworthy. "ROPER: In 1840 John C. Roper, was listed in Polk Co., Missouri, on p. 169 in Washington Twp. He was in Dallas county in 1850. He had a large household in 1840 consisting of 1 male under 5, 1 male 5-10, 1 male 10-15, 1 male 15-20, 1 male 20-30, 1 male 40-50; 1 female under 5, 2 female 5-10, 1 female 10-15, 1 female 30-40. In 1850, John C. Roper was head of household in Dallas County #515. He was a farmer worth $600. He was 54 years old, b. VA, Hannah, age 48 b. VA, James H., age 20 b. KY, Permelia, age 15 b. KY, Edward F., age 13 b. KY, Patsy A., age 11 b. Missouri, Susan, age 7 b. Missouri and Hollina age 5 b. Missouri. He is said to have migrated from Kentucky in 1837, supposedly from Cumberland Co., KY. Annie Roper was living in Conway, Dallas Co., Missouri ,on 31 May 1887 when she applied for a widow's pension. She stated her husband had served in Capt. Dollison's Company, 5th Rgt in the War of 1812. Her claim was rejected as the Auditor could find no record of his service. The application reported that John C. Roper had died 16 December 1876. Her application stated that she was 70 years old in 1887. She stated that her husband was 21 years old at the time of his enlistment for a 6 months duty. She did not know the date of enlistment or the date of discharge. She stated he was a farmer, born in Virginia, about 5'10" tall, black hair, blue eyes and fair complexion. She married John C. Roper in Dallas County on 18 April 1869 and they were married by James Jones, Minister. Her name before her marriage was Anna Nave and she was the widow of John H. Nave who was killed December 24 1863. She had remained in Dallas County ever since her second marriage and had not remarried. G.W. Baker, age 62, and Mrs. E.V. Vincent, age 29 also appeared. Since it seemed mysterious that Roper's name could not be found, a search for Abraham Baker was made. Apparently, he and Roper were said to have served in the same company. That search revealed the only entry for a man of that name was in Capt. Memorial Forrest's Company of the 16th Regt. with the comment "Never joined." Although John C. Roper was said to have marched from the Cumberland and served in the Battle of New Orleans, no confirmation could be found.[1] A John A. Roper age 20-30 was listed in Cumberland Co,. Kentucky, p. 128. He was living on the south side of the Cumberland river. He was the only one of the surname. [1] Bureau of Pension Record WO-44464." John C. Roper is the probable son of John Roper, b. bet. 1757, who lived in Halifax, VA prior to moving to Cumberland County, KY to be near his son David Roper, who married Nancy Lewis. Before marrying Anna Nave, John C. Roper had been married to Hannah Martin. The John A. Roper who is mentioned was the son of David Roper and Nancy Lewis. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1892/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John Roper, b. bef. 1756, d. aft. 1820, Cumberland, KY, had three sons, David, John, and Henry, and one daughter named Ann Roper. Ann Roper married Randolph Buckley on November 15, 1803 in Caswell, NC: "Marriage records of Caswell Co., NC: Buckley Randolph m Ann Roper (d/o Jno) 15 Nov 1803 James Samuel, Jr." L David Roper database. Ann is specifically noted to be the daughter of John Roper. Her brother David Roper married Nancy Lewis in Caswell two years earlier: "Marriage records of Caswell Co., NC: David Roper m Nancy Lewis 13 Jul 1801 Giden Robertson." L David Roper database. Randolph Buckley had been previously married to Mildred Oliver on April 27, 1879 in Halifax, VA, and they had a son by that marriage named Alexander Buckley, born abt. 1798. Randolph Buckley and his presumed wife Ann Roper can be seen in the 1810, 1820, and 1830 Surrey County, NC census records. Other than Randolph, no specific family names are given. Randolph Buckley apparently died sometime before 1840. The presumed wife in each of the census records gives her age as 26-45 in 1810, 26-45 in 1820, and 40-50 in 1830. Randolph Buckley is considerably older than Ann, being shown as 60-70 in the 1830 census. Ann Buckley can then be seen in the 1840 Russell County, VA census. She is shown as age 60-69. Her husband is missing from the census, but four of her children are living with her. Ann Buckley next appears in the 1850 Russell County, VA census as age 67, born in "Halifax CoVa". The only other person in the household is Elizabeth Campbell, age 21, born in "Russell, CoVa". Ann Buckley shows up one more time in the 1860 Russell, VA census in the household of Elizabeth Fields, age 52, Lafayette Mc M Fields, age 21, David B. Fields, age 12, and Rosanna Fields, age 10. For some unknown reason, no one's place of birth is listed on that census page. Ann Buckley is shown as age 74 in 1860, which is not consistent with the 1850 Russell County, VA census, where she is shown as age 67. She is also shown as a "pauper". Thus, we have the following age range for Ann Buckley: 1810 1765-1784 1820 1775-1794 1830 1780-1790 1840 1770-1779 1850 1783 1860 1786 The 1840 census age range seems to be an anomaly. The 1850 census record wherein Ann Buckley is shown as born in 1783 seems the most compatible with the majority of census records, although we could establish an age range of 1780-83. The earliest record I can find showing John Roper residing in Halifax, VA is in the 1782 Halifax, VA Personal Property tax list. However, there is one more wrinkle besides Ann Buckley's conflicting birth ranges. Randolph Buckley and Ann Roper had a daughter named Elizabeth Randolph. Elizabeth married William Fields. Ann Roper Buckley is shown in the household of Elizabeth Fields in the 1860 Russell County, VA census. All of this was brought to my attention by Judy Christine Clark, a descendant of Elizabeth Randolph and William Fields. Apparently, William Fields died of typhoid in the spring of 1850, which explains why Elizabeth had no husband in the household in 1860. Elizabeth Fields appears in the 1880 Elk Garden, Russell County, VA census, in the household of a James Farmer, wherein she states that she is age 73, the mother-in-law, and born in NC. The wrinkle is that she states that both her parents, which would include Ann Roper, were born in NC. I'm more persuaded that Ann Roper was born in Halifax, VA since the 1850 Russell County, VA census specifically states "Halifax CoVa". Although this post concerns the Roper family, the following information on Randolph Buckley may have some value. I mentioned above that Randolph Buckley and his first wife Mildred Oliver had a son named Alexander Buckley, born abt. 1798. Alexander Buckley can be seen in the 1880 Black Lick, Wythe, VA as age 81, born Virginia. He also states that both his parents were born in Virginia, which means that Randolph Buckley was born in Virginia. Randolph stated he was 60-70 in the 1830 census. He also married Mildred Oliver in 1779. Assuming he was about 20 years of age when he married, this would place his date of birth at about 1759. This is fairly consistent with the 1830 census which shows an age range of 1760-1770. That Alexander Buckley was the son of Randolph Buckley seems to be evidenced by the following marriage record which can be found on Ancestry.com: Alex Buckley, male, widowed, age 61, born 1798, Virginia, married Margaret Huddle, on October 9, 1859, in Wythe, Virginia. He states that his father was Randolph Buckley. However, he states that his mother was Pamela. Alexander's death record can be found on Ancestry.com: Alexander Buckley, birth date abt. 1797, birth place "Sarah" (probably Surrey), North Carolina, married, died December 19, 1882, "Smyth", Virginia at age 85, farmer. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Ellyson, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1891/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Amongst the Virginia State Library's "Lost Records Localities Collection, 1674-1948" is an extant Deed of Manumission by John ELLYSON dated 07 Jan 1783 granting emancipation to sixteen slaves: "Peter, Lucy,Tamer, Cate, Frank, Milia, Robert, Daniel, Roper, Elizabeth, Amey, Jemima, Sarah, Mary, Jane, and William." Since an image of this document is available online at the web site of the Virginia State Library within the digital collections, I am NOT going to undertake a complete transcription here. However, the document begins: "I John Ellyson of New Kent County being persuaded that Freedom is the Natural Right of all man kind and that it is my Duty to do unto others as I would desire to be done by in the like situation and having under my care sixteen negroes of the following names Vizt. Peter, Lucy, Tamer, Cate, Frank, Milia, Robert, Daniel, Roper, Elizabet, Amey, Jemima, Sarah, Mary, Jane & William I hereby Emancipate and Set free all and every of the above named Slaves ..." This deed was proved at the Court for New Kent held on 13 Feb 1783. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>