This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Perkins, Hardeman, McEwen Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Civil War historians are well aware that Roper's Knob played a pivotal role in observation and signaling during the Civil War campaigns near Nashville, TN. However, Roper family historians haven't done a very good job researching, analyzing or discussing Roper's Knob and the history of the ROPER family presence there. Happily, the National Park Service and Tennessee archeologists have done some pretty good research, supported by relatively recent excavations and digs. A full account of these excavations was written by Benjamin C. NANCE in 2006 and published in Tennessee Archeology. I would encourage those interested in the Williamson, TN, ROPER family, in Tennessee ROPER genealogy, Civil War history or archeology to read the entire article cited and linked below. For the convenience of those ONLY interested in the information given about George W. ROPER, of Williamson, I have included the portion of the article which discusses the family presence at Roper's Knob: "Early History of Roper's Knob The hill that would become known as Roper's Knob (this name first appears in an 1859 court document) was part of a 2,660-acre land grant that James Robertson, known by most as one of the founders of Nashville, Tennessee, received for service in the American Revolution (Davidson County Deeds, Book D, p. 97). Subsequent land sales broke up the large tract, and in May 1823 John and Cyrus McEwen evenly divided a 310-acre tract that they had inherited from their father David McEwen (Williamson County Deeds, Book G, pp. 378-379). John McEwen's portion of this tract included Roper's Knob, and in 1829 he sold 37 acres, including the knob, to Thomas Hardeman, County Clerk of Williamson County, in trust for Nicholas P. Perkins (Williamson County, Chancery Court Minute Book, 1857-1867, Vol. I, p. 435). The deed from McEwen to Hardeman failed to mention the trust, which would later result in a court battle over ownership of the land (Williamson County Deeds, Book K, p. 208). Nicholas P. Perkins, a Franklin attorney, paid taxes in 1829 for one free person (himself) and three slaves (Williamson County Tax Records, 1829), and in the following year he paid taxes for five slaves and the 37-acre tract of land that he had purchased from McEwen (Williamson County Tax Records, 1830). Perkins died in 1833 and his heirs, James Perkins, John Perkins, and Ann Elizabeth Knox, began paying the taxes on the 37-acre tract, though none of them lived there (Williamson County Tax Records, 1837-1856). It is shortly after Nicholas Perkins's death that the Roper family shows up in local records. Historian Park Marshall wrote that Roper's Knob was named for a man named Roper who "lived a great many years on Roper's Knob, but he does not seemed to have owned the land" (Marshall 1970). George W. Roper paid a poll tax in Williamson County in 1833 (Williamson County Tax Records, 1833), and he appears on the 1840 Federal Census in the Eighth District (where Roper's Knob is located) with his wife, two sons, and one daughter (Federal Census, 1840, Williamson County, District 8). Roper's wife, Agnes, hanged herself in May 1840 (Lynch 1977:34). The 1850 Federal Census lists George W. Roper and his sons George Jr. and Moody as farmers without real estate. A daughter, Mary Roper, is also listed (Federal Census, 1850, Williamson County, District 8, No. 831). George and Moody also paid poll taxes in 1846, 1849, and 1850, but the Ropers disappear from the local records after 1850. They do not appear in the 1860 census records for Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, or Texas. The heirs of Nicholas P. Perkins and Thomas Hardeman went to court in 1859 to settle a dispute over ownership of the 37-acre tract of land. The Perkins heirs won the dispute, and the land was subsequently surveyed and sold (Williamson County Chancery Court Minute Book, 1857-1867, Vol. I, p. 435). These court records provide the first documented use of the name "Roper's Knob." W.H.S. Hill purchased the Roper's Knob tract in April 1860 having bought the adjoining tract to the south in the previous year (Williamson County Chancery Court Minute Book, Vol. I, pp. 450, 524; Williamson County Deeds, Book Z, p. 58-59). Hill, a farmer and surveyor, lived in the East Subdivision of Williamson County in 1860, and owned Roper's Knob throughout the Civil War." [Pages 83-4] "Archaeological Investigations on Ropers Knob: A Fortified Civil War Site in Williamson County, Tennessee", by Benjamin C. NANCE, Tennessee Archeology, Vol. 2, No. 2, (Nashville: Tennessee Council for Professional Archeology, Fall 2006) pp. 83-106 http://www.sitemason.com/files/lotmCs/Volume2Issue2.pdf Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Stockton Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: First, I want to applaud you on your really TERRIFIC new expository thread on Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER (b abt 1762-65)!! I have been intending to create a new thread on George ROPER for some time and you have done a tremendous job collecting, analyzing and summarizing the primary evidence! I wanted to share several pieces of data with you, as well as suggested avenues for further inquiry and investigation. * GEORGE ROPER's PENSION APPLICATION The original images of the Revolutionary War Pension applications are directly available at Ancestry, and I would encourage you to carefully review EACH PAGE of the original images! You have already noted some rather stark potential errors possibly introduced either by unsupported assertions within the letter of A.D. MILLER dated 27 Aug 1931 which may have resulted in some of the confusion. Without inspection of the original images, it is also hard to know precisely what else may have been erroneously represented or omitted from the abstract and which pieces of information came from the original application, which came from answers to the War Department interrogatories and which came from other much more recent correspondence. For ANY exceptionally important detail, you need to re-verify the data from the original images. Separate from the Abstract of George ROPER's Pension Application [No. S30683] posted at Dave ROPER's site, I would encourage you to review the independent transcription of Will GRAVES amongst the collection of "Southern Campaign American Revolution Pension Statements & Rosters": http://www.revwarapps.org/s36261.pdf * * You have stated well and correctly the apparent omission of a mention that George ROPER was from Caswell, NC. This seems NOT to be shown directly from the Pension Application or other primary data you identified, but may possibly be reasonably inferred from some other information. George ROPER's possible Caswell origin will be further discussed in another separate Reply. * * * ADDITIONAL CENSUS DATA I realize that given the information that George ROPER was in Williamson, Tennessee, at the 05 Jul 1824 date of his application, you may not have searched extensively for him elsewhere in the 1820 Census. However, as further shown below, George W. ROPER, of Williamson seems to have already been age 28 in 1820 and was of a sufficient age to have been the subject of most of the early Williamson mentions. I would encourage you to at least take a close look at the Census record of the George ROPER enumerated in Pope County, Illinois in 1820. Not all migrations are strictly linear! See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHGQ-SGJ : accessed 16 Apr 2014), George Roper, Monroe, Pope, Illinois; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 74, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 12, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0506764. * Pope County is one of the most Southerly counties in Illinois separated from Kentucky only by the Ohio River. It is also almost immediately across the River from Paducah, KY, where the Tennessee River joins the Ohio. It is exceptionally easy to get to Pope County, either via the Ohio River from any of the Northerly Ohio counties adjacent to the Ohio River OR by following the Cumberland River West to the Tennessee River and crossing the Ohio to Illinois where the Tennessee River joins the Ohio at Paducah. To the extent that George ROPER was a pioneer in Kentucky, he may have chosen to move with the pioneers to Illinois, too, and then then returned for a while to Tennessee. Perhaps George ROPER's first appearance in Illinois was in 1828, but it couldn't hurt to check the 1820 Census record. * * * GEORGE W. ROPER, OF WILLIAMSON, TN In discussing the various George ROPER, you gloss over George W. ROPER, of Williamson, who is shown to have supported George ROPER's Pension Application. This George W. ROPER is enumerated residing in Williamson County, TN, in the 1830, 1840 and 1850 Census enumerations. George W. ROPER is shown to be age 58 (b abt 1792 - VA) and born in VIRGINIA. See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHPT-RXW : accessed 16 Apr 2014), George W Roper, Franklin, Williamson, Tennessee; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 197, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 182, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024540. "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHYM-38G : accessed 16 Apr 2014), George W Roper, Not Stated, Williamson, Tennessee; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 138, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 537, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024550. "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC6Q-8KG : accessed 16 Apr 2014), George W Roper, Williamson county, Williamson, Tennessee, United States; citing family 831, NARA microfilm publication M432. * I will furnish a little more on this George W. ROPER in a separate post. * * * GEORGE ROPER's RESIDENCE IN KENTUCKY Your analysis of the Census data to determine that David C. ROPER was born in Kentucky is especially helpful and insightful! I would prefer to see a better primary record reference for George ROPER's asserted militia service from 1793, but do NOT doubt that this record exists and shows the early presence of George ROPER in Kentucky. We probably need to learn a little more about Lt. Col. RUSSELL and his Cavalry Regiment. Appearance of George ROPER on an 1800 Tex List for Warren County is also huge. But this also implies that we need to be looking at the deed records and other court records in Logan and Warren Counties. You will recall my constant mantra that we need to be looking at the ANNUAL TAX LISTS. Your identification that a George ROPER was on the 1800 Tax List for Warren County, Kentucky, makes looking at the ANNUAL LISTS for Warren critical. At least one other researcher (Katherine Moncrief) has reported that George ROPER is shown on the Tax Lists for Warren, KY, for 1799 and 1806. See: "Re: [ROPER] James W. Roper b. 17 Oct. 1800, NC d. 15 Feb. 1881" (Thu, 7 Feb 2008 20:49:17 -0600) [Archives] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ROPER/2008-02/1202435112 This post had previously escaped my notice, probably because it occurred during the train-up for my overseas deployment to Iraq in 2008. We need to VERIFY the reported Tax List information, obtain the detailed information shown on the lists, look at the Lists BEFORE 1799 and AFTER 1806, as well as for each year from 1799 to 1806. We also need to look at the Warren County LAND RECORDS. This investigation should also include scrutiny for STOCKTON family records and the names of neighbors in Warren County should be noted. Of course, adjacent Logan County is where James ROPER, of Caswell, NC, later settled. * * * ILLINOIS LAND RECORDS More than a decade ago, I posted some finding aids to the Illinois Land records of early ROPER, RAPER and ROSSER pioneers in Illinois. My purpose was to assist others in locating the primary records so that these might be transcribed. "Illinois Public Domain Land Tract Sales: RAPER / ROPER / ROSSER -- By NAME" (11 Aug 2002 7:03PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/525/mb.ashx "Illinois Public Domain Land Tract Sales: RAPER / ROPER / ROSSER -- By COUNTY" (11 Aug 2002 7:06PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/526/mb.ashx "Illinois Public Domain Land Tract Sales: RAPER / ROPER / ROSSER -- By DATE" (11 Aug 2002 7:10PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/527/mb.ashx * As far as I can tell, NO ONE has yet looked at a single primary record as to the early Illinois land grants. I think that you will find some of these land grants will help inform your understanding of the early settlement of Illinois. Separately, one looks in County Grantor-Grantee indices in EACH COUNTY to find land transfers to other than the original patentee. This needs to be done for EACH COUNTY in Illinois where ROPERs were known to be resident. While there are a handful of deed abstracts and deed transcriptions posted on Dave's various pages, these posts reflect the rather myopic view that one learns of land transfers through published abstracts of deeds. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH AND PROBABLY LESS THAN 5% OF ALL LAND RECORDS HAVE EVER BEEN ABSTRACTED. This passive approach to genealogy of waiting for someone else to look up and post records, together with the publication of so many fabricated "facts" and fraudulent lineages, have kept ROPER family history in the doldrums for more than a decade! To advance the family history, some one needs to examine the Grantor-Grantee Indices for those counties where the ROPER family has been known to reside. These places include Logan and Simpson Counties, in Kentucky, and now, as you show, in Warren County, Kentucky, as well. * * * According to the Illinois Society of the DAR, Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER is shown to be buried in the Walnut Hill Cemetery, Walnut Hill. However, I have yet to see a photograph of a burial marker for George ROPER's grave. I am going to refrain from re-posting the widely published date of George ROPER's purported death since I have never actually seen a primary record supporting that date. IF THE DATE IS SHOWN ON A GRAVE MARKER, SOMEONE NEEDS TO PHOTOGRAPH THE GRAVE MARKER. * * * * * GEORGE W. ROPER (b abt 1777, d - 08 Sep 1866 Saline, IL) In discussing this George W. ROPER, I first want to CORRECT numerous of my early posts about this particular ROPER ancestor. In posts beginning more than a decade ago, I identified this George W. ROPER as "George Washington ROPER", mostly based upon an improper false reliance on the verity of Dave ROPER's ROPER Family History GEDCOM files, which I have since learned are untrustworthy and unreliable. I am aware of NO PRIMARY RECORD which establishes or distinguishes this George ROPER's middle name as "Washington". It appears that someone UNACQUAINTED with this family, UNFAMILIAR with the primary evidence and the basic rudiments of honest genealogy, and UNFAMILIAR with history simply GUESSED or ASSUMED that the middle name was "Washington". As far as I know, there is NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE that this was George ROPER's middle name. Members of this George ROPER's family seem to believe that his name was George William ROPER. I do NOT know the basis of this belief either. I apologize to ALL for re-publishing the unsourced assertion that this George W. ROPER was a George Washington ROPER. * According to researcher Frances Roper GOLIGHTLY, George W. ROPER and his wife Rachel are buried at the Old Ebenezer Cemetery in Saline County, IL. She reports that the grave markers say: "Rachel wife of G.W. Roper died Sept 8, 1866 Aged 83 years" "G.W. Roper died Sept 8, 1866 Aged 89 years" See: "Re: Date of Birth of George Washington ROPER -- An Afterthought" (August 11, 2002 at 08:50:48) http://genforum.genealogy.com/roper/messages/1151.html I have not yet seen photographs of these ROPER graves. I post this information because Frances has given us the specific information she says appears on the grave markers and I understand that Frances has photos, though I haven't seen them. Note that George and Rachel are shown to have died on the SAME DAY. I understand from Frances that this information is CORRECT. * * * I would expressly encourage you to review my old post about George W. ROPER: "Parents of George Washington ROPER -- Is the Lineage Correct?" (August 11, 2002 at 15:04:02) http://genforum.genealogy.com/roper/messages/1153.html In fact, I would encourage you to review each of the posts within this old Genealogy.com ROPER Message Board Thread in which the George ROPERs of Illinois were discussed: "Roper's of IL" (July 21, 2002 at 11:38:48) http://genforum.genealogy.com/roper/messages/1128.html Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Secondary sources state that George Roper, b. 1765, NC, was the son of David Roper of Caswell, NC and Sarah. Secondary sources also state that George Roper was living in Caswell County, NC prior to moving to Williamson County, TN and Jefferson County, IL. I have not seen an extant document showing him residing in Caswell County. George Roper applied for a Revolutionary War pension in 1824 in Williamson County, TN. I will not post the transcription of that lengthy document again because it is easily accessed on the L. David Roper database for Roper Families in North Carolina and on other Internet sites. I will mention some of the pertinent facts from that application. Perhaps there is something in the pension application that indicates that George was residing in Caswell County, NC when he enrolled in the military in North Carolina. If anyone can demonstrate this, I would appreciate hearing from them. I suspect that secondary sources concluded that George Roper came from Caswell, NC because of a statement in the pension application of James Roper of Caswell County, NC and Simpson County, KY, that he, James Roper, had a brother named George Roper who lived in Illinois. However, I also suspect that James Roper was referring to another George Roper, Sr. of Washington County, IL. This does not mean that George Roper, b. 1765, NC did not come from Caswell, NC, but only that direct evidence of that fact may be lacking. Besides listing the campaigns and companies he was in during the war and making a case for his destitution, George Roper also gave information on his whereabouts after the War and about his family. Specifically, at the time he was applying for the pension in 1824, he stated that he was residing in Williamson County, TN, far from his son David C. Roper, who was age 23 in 1824. George Roper also stated that he himself was 59 years of age in 1824, giving him a birth date of 1765. There is also a letter in the pension application papers from an A. D. Miller, Assistant to Administrator, dated August 27, 1931, stating that "in 1828, the soldier was living in Jefferson County, Illinois, to be near his only child, David Roper, who was living there". The sworn affidavit signed by George Roper does not state that David C. Roper was his "only child", and, thus, I would be skeptical about the accuracy of statement by Mr. Miller in 1931 that David Roper was the "only child" of George Roper. The pension was transferred from Williamson County, TN to Jefferson County, IL in 1828, according to the application papers. Although it is not mentioned in the application, there is evidence that George Roper first went to Kentucky before he proceeded on to Tennessee and Illinois. To illustrate this evidence, I am first going to discuss the Jefferson County, IL census records, which will shed some light on this hypothesis. We know from the pension application papers that George Roper moved from Williamson County, TN to Jefferson County, IL in about 1828. Thus, he appears in the 1830 Jefferson County census records, indexed in Ancestry.com first as George Roper and secondly as George Rosser: George Roper 0-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0 George Roper is shown as age 60-69, being born 1761-1770, and his presumed wife shown as age 50-59. There are two males 15-19 in the household. Next, he is seen in the 1840 Jefferson, IL census: George Roper 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0 0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0 George Roper is shown as age 70-79, with his presumed wife of age 60-69. There is also one female 15-19. The two males shown in the 1830 census are not listed. There is also a separate column that lists Revolutionary pensioners, and George Roper's name is written out with his age of 78. This would mean he was born in 1762. Two of the three people in the household cannot read or write. George Roper is not seen after the 1840 census. I cannot find David C. Roper in the 1830 Jefferson County, IL census. George Roper, in his pension affidavit, never said his son resided in Jefferson County in 1828. George Roper said ""that he had a son named David C. Roper aged about 23 years who resides at a great distance from this applicant that he this applicant resides in Williamson County in the State of Tennessee." A.D. Miller, Assistant to Administrator, in his letter of 1931, stated that David C. Roper was living in Jefferson County in 1828: "John C. Stewart August 27, 1931, letter to Jessie R. McClelland, 609 E.11th St., East St. Louis, Illinois, Dear Madame: You are advised that it appears from the papers in the Revolutionary War pension claim, S.36261, that George Roper enlisted...In 1824, he state that his son, David C. Roper, was aged twenty-three years. In 1828, the soldier was living in Jefferson County, Illinois to be near his son only child, David Roper, who was living there. Very truly yours, A. D. Miller, Assistant to Administrator." I think that George Roper of Williamson, TN was living near his son David C. Roper in 1830. However, George Roper was living in Jefferson County, IL, and his son David was probably living in the next door county of Marion County, IL. Marion County was carved out of Jefferson in 1823. We have two Ropers living next door to each other in the 1830 Marion County, IL census: David Roper 1-2-1-1-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 George Roper (Rosser) 1-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 David Roper is shown as age 20-29, and his presumed wife as age 30-39 (This age difference will be consistent throughout the census records). They have one male <5, two males 5-9, one male 10-14, and one male 15-19. They have one female 15-19. George Roper (Rosser) is shown as age 40-49, with a presumed wife of 30-39. They have one male <5, one male 5-9, one male 10-14, and one male 15-19. They have one female <5. Because David Roper and George Roper are living next to each other, there is a good chance that they are related, either as brothers or as cousins. I cannot find this George in Marion County or Jefferson County, IL in 1840. However, he may be the George Roper found in the 1840 census of Fayette County, IL, the county just north of Marion County, IL: George Roper 1-1-1-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-0-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 George Roper is shown as age 50-59, and his presumed wife is age 40-49, consistent with the 1830 Marion census. Also, the male and females in the household are consistent with the 1830 Marion census. George Roper does not seem to be in Fayette County in 1850 and I cannot find him elsewhere. David C. Roper next appears in the 1840 Jefferson County, IL, after having moved from Marion County: David C. Roper 0-2-1-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-1-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 David C. Roper is 30-39, with a wife of 40-49. The children in the home are consistent with the 1830 Marion, IL census. David C. Roper next appears as David Roper in the 1850 Jefferson County, IL census: David Roper Age 50 Born abt. 1800 in Kentucky. Elizabeth Roper Age 55 Born abt. 1795 in Georgia. Franklin Roper Age 26 Born abt. 1824 in Illinois. Jackson Roper Age 18 Born abt. 1832 in Illinois. David Roper Age 15 Born abt. 1835 in Illinois. Janes Roper Age 17 Born abt. 1833 in Illinois. The important fact in this census is that David C. Roper said he was born in Kentucky. (Also, it is noteworthy that a Henry Fry, age 40, born in NC, is on the same page as David Roper. The Fry family married into the Roper family in Maury, TN.) Secondary sources state that another son of David C. Roper was a Marion Roper. Marion Roper, age 34, born Illinois, can be seen in the 1860 Jefferson, IL census residing next to Franklin Roper, age 37, and David Roper, age 24. The fact that David C. Roper named one of his sons Marion is evidence that David C. Roper in fact lived in Marion County, IL, in 1826, and not in Jefferson County, IL as stated in the above-referenced pension application. So if David C. Roper was born in Kentucky in 1800, we should be able to find his father George Roper in Kentucky. A George Roper is residing in Warren County, KY according to the Tax List which can be found on Ancestry.com. According to the L. David Roper database, he is the only George Roper shown in Kentucky in 1800. A George Roper can also be found in post-Revolutionary military service records on Ancestry.com: George Roper, State of Kentucky, Russell's Regiment, Calvary, Volunteers, Service 1793. Warren County, KY was created from Logan County, KY in 1796, on the south border of Kentucky, bordering Tennessee, in the area above Nashville, TN. So David C. Roper could have been born in Warren County, KY in 1800 when George Roper was residing there. I can find no other records for a George Roper in Kentucky. At some point, he will end up in Williamson, TN There is a George Roper who is found in the 1816 Maury County, TN tax list. There is also a George Roper shown in the L. David Roper database who is in Williamson County, TN in 1817 and who purchased property form a Stephen Pigg: "Williamson Co. Deed Book F, pp.53-54: Stephen Pigg 50 Acres of Land on Lick Creek conveyed by Geo. Roper registered 15 June 1817. This Indenture made the 19th day of April Between George Roper of the Co. of Williamson and State of TN of the one part, and Stephen Pigg of the same County and State of the Other part Witnesseth; that for and in consideration of the sum of one hundred and fifty dollars to me in hand hath bargained, sold and conveyed unto Stephen Pigg all my right, title, claim and interest in and to a certain Tract or parcel of Land lying and being in Williamson Co. on the head waters of Lick Creek, lying on both sides of the Natchez road where Stephen Pigg now lives. Beginning at a poplar, dogwood and Spanish Oak near the head of a hollow in an Eastern branch of Lick Creek the dogwood and poplar marked G.R. thence South Ninety poles across the Natchez road to a White Oak on the point of a ridge,thence West Eighty nine poles to a Hickory on the West side of said road thence North Ninety poles to Spanish Oak and dogwood thence East Eighty nine poles to the beginning containing fifty acres to ???? ?? Stephen Pigg. To have, to hold, satisfy ?! ?? ???? with all and every appurtenance thereunto belonging and further I the said George Roper, my heirs and assigns will force and warrant the above Tract of fifty acres unto the said Stephen Pigg his heirs and assigns forever, In Witness whereof I the said George Roper have hereunto set my hand and Seal the day and date above written. George X (his mark) Roper. Test: William Sparmna, Seth Sparkman. On which deed was written The State of TN, Williamson Co. Court April Term 1819. The execution of the written deed of Conveyance,proven in part by the Oath of William Sparkman a Subscribing witness thereto, and at the present Time completed by the Oath of Seth Sparkman the other subscribing Witness thereto to be the Act and deed of George Roper for the use and pur- pose therein contained, and the same was ordered to be registered. Tho. Hardimand, Clerk of said Court". George Roper signed with his mark. I noted that in the 1840 Jefferson, IL census two of the people in the household could neither read nor write. George Roper does not appear in the 1820 Williamson County census, although he states in his pension application that he was there in 1824. However, George Roper also stated in his pension application that he was "possessed of no property whatsoever except his wearing apparel" and he could have been destitute in 1820 and not appeared as a householder. Why he would not appear in someone else's household I do not know. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1897.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The entries in Maury Book "B" are a little sloppy and unprofessional. The Clerk seems only to rarely show the dates of court sessions at which various Wills and probate information were proven. Many of the documents recorded seem to be seriously out of chronological sequence, suggesting that this Book also might have been created from loose sheets of paper rather than contemporanously recorded in a bound volume. In fairness to the Maury Clerk, this Volume includes the period of the War of 1812 / Creek War and there may have been some disruption in the business processes associated with recordkeeping. Book "B" inexplicably begins with the Will of James TURNER dated 05 Apr 1809, which Will was previously presented for probate and recorded in Book "A" at page 29, which prior recording is also expressly noted on Page 1 of Book "B". The second Will, that of John LINDSAY is dated 02 Jan 1810 [Pages 1-2, Images 111-3]. The third Will is that of William BRADSHAW dated 04 Mar 1814 [Pages 3-4, Images 113-4]. The fourth Will is that of James TROUSDALE dated 06 Jun 1816. One is left with some doubt as to precisely WHEN this Will Book first came into use. Compiler Jull K. GARRETT shows this Volume as covering the period 1816 to 1825. My suspicion is that the Original Will Book "A" may have become worn, fragile or damaged in antiquity and that some hand re-transcription of this Will Book and possibly Will Book "B" was made. In VERIFYING the re-transcriptions of some of the Wills in Will Book "A" either some errors or omissions may have been noted and then certain of the information added back in again within Will Book "B". OR Maury had NO BOUND Will Book at all for some extended period and the Bound Volume was created later from loose sheets. This is of no great moment in respect of the brief sole mention of William ROPER in this Volumea but is helpful to appreciate if looking for something in this book. * * * INDEX ENTRIES FOR BOOK "B" There seems to be NO ORIGINAL INDEX for Maury Will Book "B". However, published abstracts can serve as a finding aid for this volume. See: http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/maury/willssettlements.html * * * FINDING AIDS FOR IMAGES WITHIN THE FAMILYSEACH IMAGE FILE Page 1 of Will Book "B" seems to actually begin at Image 111 of 253 of the file designated as "Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B" within the FamilySearch.org collection "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927" for Maury County. "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2080048-1-23?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 111 of 253. * Page 50 of this Volume (Will Book "B") is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 137 (November Court 1816): "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657592-1-23?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 137 of 253. * Page 100 of this Volume (Will Book "B") is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 162 (November Court 1816): "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2079908-1-25?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 162 of 253. * Page 150 of this Volume (Will Book "B") is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 188: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657421-1-53?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 188 of 253. It is noteworthy that these records continue to seem JUMBLED. For example, a record at page 152 is shown to be dated April 20, 1818, while a record on the very next page purports to be from the November Session 1817. It seems possible that Maury might have been WITHOUT a bound Will Book for a while and that records were kept on loose leaves of paper which were later recorded out of order. * Page 200 of this Volume (Will Book "B") is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 213: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657407-1-79?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 213 of 253. Continuing to reflect the chronological jumble of Book "B", Pages 200-1 include items dated 1811 and the items on the following page seem to be from 1814. * Page 250 of this Volume (Will Book "B") is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 238: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657440-1-56?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 238 of 253. The chronological jumble of records continues at Page 250 with that page containing both a document dated March 1815 and another dated November 1820. It is perhaps noteworthy that a number of the entries seem to contain an indication "Exhibited in court Term 182_" with NO PRECISE month or year given. The Clerk may have copied the information into Volume "B" intending to consult the Court minutes or some other document showing WHEN the document was proven, but never did so. * This file ends at Page 281 [Image 253]. "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657360-1-77?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 253 of 253. This last page includes three recorded documents dated 10 May 1816, 21 Jan 1818 and 08 Dec 1821, but the term of the Court is LEFT BLANK "Term 18__". * * * SINGLE ROPER MENTION IN THIS VOLUME There is only a single ROPER mention within this Volume, within the Inventory Sale presentation for the Estate of Tyre FOLLING, Deceased. Tyre DOLLING's Inventory Sale is recorded in Will Book "B" at pages 254-6. Based upon the Inventory Sales, including tanning tools and an exceptional amount of leather, Tyre DOLLING seems to have been a tanner. "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657289-1-31?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 240 of 253. William ROPER's $5.00 purchase of leather is shown on Page 256 at Image 241: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657271-1-77?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 241 of 253. Given the large list of purchasers of Tyre DOLLING's leather inventory, the purchase by William ROPER is probably incidental and reflects only his presence in the community and possilbe proximity to Tyre DOLLING rather than some familial relationship. Neither the date for the sale nor even the date this Estate Sale information was presented to the Court is explicitly shown, however the Inventory of Tyre DOLLING is shown to have been exhibited at the June Court 1821. This Inventory is records on the preceeding pages 250-1: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657474-1-80?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-PPD:179637301,180236801 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1809-1821, Vol. B > image 239 of 253. It seems most likely that the Inventory Sales information was presented at the same Court session. * * * * * PUBLISHED ABSTRACT OF THIS PROBATE MENTION The abstract compiled by Jill K. Garrett and Marise P. Lightfoot (March 1964) shows this entry within Maury Book "B": "p. 254 Sale of Tyre Dolling, _____ term 182__. Buying: John D. Davidson, Walter McConnell, Andrew Neely, Pleasant Scribner, James McCaferty, Widdow Dollins, Joseph Hackney, Nicholas McMillan, Howard Cannon, William McConnell, David Eddlemon, William Esom, James Thomas, George W. Johnston, Mrs. Bill, George White, James Stone, Drury Paget, David W. McRea, Phillip Hollinger, George Haaze, William Curry, Edward Cole, Joel Coffee, William Combs, James Smith, John Edlemon, Wright Trigg (or Grigg), Abner Johnston, James Neeley, Robert Wortham, Ambrose Harvell, Aron Wilcoxen, Polly Perry (or Berry, or Terry), Travis Hamrick, Merideth Webb, William Patterson, John Cannon, William Sands, Thomas Carden, Moses May, Evender Kenedy, Benjamin White, John Wasson, James Lynch, Jeremiah Thomason, Bailey Brooks, Thomas Osburne, Elisha Merryman, Peter R. Voorhies, William Vorrhies, John Clanton, Agnes Black, Joseph Perkins, Reese Porter and Caleb Thomas, Ephriam Abernatha, WILLIAM ROPER, Will! iam Fene, Simeon Peery, William Rodgers, Thomas Due, Edmond Gwin, Allen Jones, Hugh Terrance." See: http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/maury/willssettlements.html As previously mentioned, MOST of the purchasers shown were buying leather rather than household items. * * * This is a very LONG post in respect of the single mention of purchase of leather by William ROPER. However, the more important salient detail is that there were abundant, if jumbled records, and NO ROPER Probates during the period covered by this Volume. Many DISHONEST ROPER researchers have invented various ancestors and then conveniently killed off others in support of fanciful or fraudulent ascriptions. But these deceitful family historians can never seem to explain why there is NO RECORD of the deaths or probate associated with the ancestors they invent or kill off so cavalierly. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1897.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: This post collects the identified ROPER mentions within Maury, Tennessee Will Book "A" and briefly discusses inferences which can be reasonably drawn therefrom. Images of this Maury, TN, Will Book are available for free viewing by registered users at the FamilySearch.org web site. The primary file discussed in this post is shown as "Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1" and can be opened from this page from which ALL of the posted Maury, Tennessee, probate files (within the larger collection "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927") are linked: https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https://familysearch.org/recapi/sord/waypoint/M6QS-BNL:179637301?cc=1909088 * In one sense, this particular post is significant NOT for the ROPER mentions it shows, but rather for the ABSENCE of ROPER mentions. You might ask WHY post findings showing the ABSENCE of ROPERs from a particular place, however since there are several ROPER households in Maury, TN, shown within the 1820 Census and there are NO EXTANT Census returns for 1810, we should be curious precisely WHEN the ROPER family first appeared in this County. While ABSENCE from extant periodic records, such as probate records, is NO ASSURANCE that the family was NOT present, identification of the FIRST mentions of a family in a place is some indication of the time of arrival. * INDEX ENTRIES FOR BOOK "A" Index entries for this Volume appear at Images 2 through 25 of 156. See: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-656441-1-53?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 2 of 156 It is probably most important to note that the most significant inference that may be drawn from this Will Book is that NO ROPERs seem to have died leaving an estate in Maury, TN, during the interval covered by these probate records. This can be seen by reference to the "R" Index page within the Index for this volume: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2078921-1-94?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 19 of 156. Entries for a David YEATS (YATES) are shown to appear at pages 16, 156, and 191: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-656332-1-65?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 25 of 156. I HAVE NOT LOCATED AND INSPECTED THESE DAVID YATES PAGES. A researcher who believes that the Maury ROPER family is related to the YATES family may wish to look at these records. * * * FINDING AIDS FOR IMAGES WITHIN THE FAMILYSEACH IMAGE FILE Since the FamilySearch.org images are NOT yet Indexed, it is helpful to understand that each Image typically contains TWO pages of this Will Book. Record Book "A", Maury County Wills and Inventories [Page 1] begins at Image 26 of 156. * Page 50 of this Volume (Will Book "A" ) is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 52 of 156: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2080645-1-42?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 52 of 156. * Will Book "A" Page 100 of this Volume is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 77 of 156: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2080644-1-37?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 77 of 156. * Will Book Page 150 of this Volume is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 102 of 156: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2080584-1-62?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 102 of 156. * Will Book Page 200 of this Volume is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 127 of 156: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2080373-1-45?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 127 of 156. * Will Book Page 250 of this Volume is found at FamilySearch.org Image No. 152 of 156: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1940-657825-1-17?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-G68:179637301,180234501 : accessed 15 Apr 2014), Maury > Wills, 1806-1815, Vol. 1 > image 152 of 156. * The LAST numbered page in this Volume is page 256 [Image 155], which is followed by an UNNUMBERED page showing that this is the end. The last IMAGE seemed to be the back inside cover of the Volume [Image 156]. * * * * * An Abstract of this Volume was completed by Paulette Carpenter, in November 2004, and is posted at the Tennessee GenWeb site at: http://tngenweb.org/maurytn/wills/willpg1.htm http://tngenweb.org/maurytn/wills/willpg2.htm http://tngenweb.org/maurytn/wills/maury1.txt THERE ARE NO ROPER ENTRIES IN THIS VOLUME SHOWN WITHIN MS. CARPENTER'S ABSTRACT. * * This Volume is also abstracted by by Jill K. Garrett and Marise P. Lightfoot (March 1964): http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/maury/willssettlements.html There are NO ROPER ENTRIES in the Book "A" abstract compiled by Jill GARRERTT, either. * * Separately, there exists a printed copy of the published abstract of this Volume by Jill Knight Garrett, "Maury County, Tennessee will books A, B, C-1, D, and E, 1807-1832" (Southern Historical Press, 1984), ISBN-13: 978-0893083625. I have NOT inspected this book. * * * In my view, the absence of ROPER entries within this Volume supports the weak inference that the ROPER family arrived in Maury, TN, AFTER 1810, and the strong inference that NO ADULT ROPERs WITH PROPERTY DIED THEIR PRIOR TO 1810. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Samuel Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1896.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: This seems to me to be good, sound genealogical analysis! You and Bonnie SAMUEL are to be applauded for your continuing advances in constructing a more correct and defensible genealogy of the Caswell ROPER families!! I would add several additional points in support of your ascription. * First, the Census data we have identified for John ROPER seems to show: John ROPER: 0 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Caswell, NC 1800] John ROPER: 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - ? [Caswell, NC 1810] The former record seems to show four females in John ROPER's household. One is under age 10 (b abt 1791-1800); one is age 10 to 15 (b abt 1785-90), one is age 16 to 25 (b abt 1775-84) and one, presumably John ROPER's wife, is age 45 or more (b bef 1756). The youngest daughter is therefore of the correct age to be the Jane F. ROPER who married Herndon SAMUEL in 1815. Similarly, in 1810 John ROPER has two females age 16 to 25 (b abt 1785-94) residing within his household. Both of these females are consistent with the age shown for Jane F. Roper SAMUELS (b abt 1793 - VA) in the 1860 Census record. Thus, the extant Census data is CONSISTENT with your suggested ascription. * As I have suggested in previous posts, it is also important to consider other alternative ascriptions. The two most obvious alternative possibilities are that Jane F. ROPER was a daughter of William ROPER and Keziah YATES, what seems to have been the widespread ascription despite a complete lack of supporting evidence, and that she might have been a daughter of Revolutionary War Veteran James ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY). The core trouble with ascribing Jane as a child of William and Keziah is that it requires us to assume a LOT of facts for which there is simply NO EVIDENCE. Although we KNOW that William ROPER married Keziah YATES, we seem to only have a Tax record from 1790 rather than a Census record and there is NO KNOWN evidence that this couple had ANY CHILDREN AT ALL. There are also some indications that Keziah may have died (she is NOT uniformly shown on the deed records of William's conveyances). William and Keziah married in 1781 so we must ASSUME that Keziah survived twelve years of child birth. Moreover, there ARE extant Census records for Caswell County in both 1800 and 1810 and William ROPER is NOT enumerated in either. Thus, the natural inference is that William ROPER has either died or moved away. So, presupposing that Jane F. ROPER WAS William ROPER's daughter, we must next ASSUME that she RETURNED to Caswell, NC, to marry. This might be a minor assumption if she was KNOWN to have relocated nearby OR if she had very recently lived in Caswell. For example, if we KNEW that Jane live with William in 1810 and then MOVED AWAY, before 1815, the idea that she might return to marry some childhood "sweetheart" doesn't seem too far fetched. But if Jane moved away BEFORE 1800 when she was age 7 or less, the idea that she might return to Caswell, NC, to marry, particularly if she lived at some distance, begins to stretch credulity. The bottom line is that there is NO COMPELLING EVIDENCE which would support an ascription of Jane as William ROPER's daughter EVEN if William ROPER and Keziah YATES were both still living in 1793, which is uncertain. * The case AGAINST Jane being James ROPER's daughter is every bit as compelling. We KNOW from James ROPER's Pension Application that he moved from Caswell about 1799 and I believe that the Chester, SC, Census record for him in 1800 is reasonably conclusively his, despite some irregularities with the first letter of the surname. Here is what we understand to be James ROPER's migrations: Caswell, NC: Before 1799 Chester, SC: 1799-1805 Logan, KY: 1805-1819 Simpson, KY: 1819-1835 * While it is TRUE that James ROPER is shown to have two daughters under age 10 in 1800, there is some other information that causes some doubt: James ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Chester, SC] I have suggested in another recent post that this James ROPER may have been the father of the two ROPER grandchildren of William LEA -- William ROPER and Sarah ROPER. See: "James ROPER (b abt 1756-60?, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) As a Candidate To Be Father of William and Sarah ROPER" (12 Apr 2014 4:06PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1893.1/mb.ashx If this ascription is correct, James ROPER was previously married to an unnamed LEA daughter who died not only before William LEA's death in 1794, but also before James ROPER's KNOWN date of marriage to Mary O'NEAL on 27 Mar 1792. While it is NOT at all improbable that James ROPER and Mary O'NEIL had a child in 1793, the year following their marriage -- and they PROBABLY DID -- the probability that this child would be a daughter would only be about 50%. That probability is UNALTERED by any conditional probability as to the makeup of the gender of their children since they seem to have exactly two sons and two daughters. So even leaving aside the fact that James ROPER and Mary O'NEAL are KNOWN to have moved away, there seems to be at best only about a 50% chance that they could have even had a daughter in this age range. And this is TRUE whether or not my ascription that James might be the father of William and Sarah ROPER is correct. >From that statistical disability we then add the distance of not one move, but two. James ROPER's children would have been transplanted first to Chester, SC, and then to Logan, KY, where a daughter Jane ROPER would have been most likely living at the date of the 1815 marriage to Hendon SAMUEL. * Henry ROPER may be discounted as a possible father for Jane F. ROPER out of hand. Henry ROPER was born abt 1781-4 and would have been no more than age 12 at Jane ROPER's date of birth. Moreover, Henry ROPER's extant 1810 Census record show ONLY one female age 16 to 25 in his household. Admittedly, Henry ROPER married Rachel FARLEY late in the year of the Census (October 4, 1810). The female IS in the correct age range to be Jane F. ROPER. But we must assume that Henry married at age 11 or 12, that the first wife died before 1810 and that Henry ROPER didn't remarry right away or, if he did, that the second wife died, too. We must assume that the ONLY female in his household is a daughter already age 17 by 1810. * We therefore have not only the IMMEDIATE ADJACENCY of the John ROPER family to Herndon SAMUELS in Caswell, but the seeming displacement of BOTH of the next best candidates to be Jane ROPER's father. * * * Applying Occam's Razor, we ought to accept the simplest explanation of the readily available facts: That Jane F. ROPER probably still resided in Caswell, NC, within one of the two households actually shown in the 1810 Census for Caswell (John ROPER and Henry ROPER) and that she was residing with her father prior to marriage. Since Henry ROPER cannot reasonably be Jane's father, John ROPER must be her father, even absent the other arguments and proof you persuasively set forth. This would be a reasonable conclusion even if John ROPER didn't live immediately adjacent to the SAMUEL family! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1897/mb.ashx Message Board Post: This thread collects the identified ROPER mentions within Maury, Tennessee, probate records. I am relying upon a combined approach of consultation with published abstracts, while also linking the images of the underlying records. The images of the extant probate records from Maury County, Tennessee, are currently available online at the LDS FamilySearch.org website. FamilySearch.org has NOT yet indexed these records as of the date of this post, so the post serves as a finding aid to ROPER related records. To the extent that researchers feel comfortable trusting the published abstracts, you may simply note the abstracted record and look at the underlying images. To the extent that a thorough researcher desires to acquaint himself or herself with the underlying primary records, links are provided to allow you to inspect the records page by page yourself. I have also endeavored to identify the Image ranges where the Index Entries are found so that you can conveniently inspect the Indices for names of allied families. Also, I have sought to also highlight the names of families known to be intermarried and/or closely allied with the ROPER family in other places within the current or prior generations. * * * EARLY ROPERs IN MAURY COUNTY The following ROPERs were enumerated residing in Maury County, TN, in 1820: William ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury] David Y ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury] Tennessee ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Maury] Thomas ROPER is found in adjacent Hickman County in 1820: Thomas ROPER: 3 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Hickman] See: "ROPERs Households in the 1820 Census for Tennessee" (1 Mar 2014 4:29AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1856.1/mb.ashx * The Census records give us these age ranges and probable years of birth for these ROPER heads of household: William ROPER (b bef 1776), Age 45 or more [Maury] David Y ROPER (b 1776-94), age 26 to 44 [Maury] Thomas ROPER (b 1776-94), age 26 to 44 [Hickman] Tennessee ROPER (b 1795-1804), age 16 to 25 [Maury] * * * >From other sources, we have been able to further narrow the genealogical information for three of these four heads of household: William ROPER (b bef 1776) David Y. ROPER (b 1778, d 01 Sep 1843 - Giles, TN) [Grave marker in Lucy Cemetery, Giles, TN] Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC) [1850 Census record] Tennessee Roper (b 02 Jul 1798) [Ricketts Family Bible] Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1896/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I was recently contacted through the message board of Ancestry.com by Bonnie Samuel, who claims descent from Herndon Samuel of Caswell County, NC, and his wife, Jane F. Roper (third great grandparents of Bonnie Samuel). She stated that secondary sources have assigned Jane F. Roper as a daughter of William Roper and Keziah Yates of Caswell, NC, for which she could find no evidence. She said that she has been reading my posts with interest, because the naming pattern within Samuel Herndon's family suggests Jane F. Roper's father might be a John Roper. She further stated that there was a John Roper "buying land and living in close proximity to the Samuel's of the County Line Creek area of Caswell County, NC. Jane F. Roper is the probable daughter off John Roper of Halifax County, VA, and not the daughter of William Roper and Keziah Yates. Jane F. Roper married "Harndon Samuel" on November 4, 1815 in Caswell, NC, for which there is an extant Caswell County record. Samuel Brandon was the bondsman. I cannot find an 1820 census record for Herndon Samuel. However, he appears in the 1830 Caswell County, NC census, 4 properties away from Henry Roper, son of John Roper of Halifax County, VA. Herndon Samuel is shown as age 40-49, and his wife is shown as age 30-39. Herndon Samuel is next found in the 1840 Rockcastle, KY census, as age 50-59, with a wife age 40-49. I cannot find a Herndon Samuel in an 1850 Mercer, KY census, unless it is Hernandoe Samuel, age 62, laborer, born NC, living in the household of James Hatchel, age 30. He appears to have no wife living with him at that household. However, the important census record for me is the 1860 Rockcastle, KY census that has an appearance by Jane Samuels, age 67, widow, born in Virginia. She is living in the household of George Thompson, age 37, married to a Martha, age 39. Secondary sources list the following children, among others, of Herndon Samuel and Jane F. Roper: Martha Ann Samuel b. 21 Aug. 1820, Caswell, NC; d. 03 April, 1862, Rockcastle, KY; m. George Thompson. John C. Samuel b. Aug 1819 Caswell, NC; d. 24 July, 1896, Marmaton, Bourbon, KS. Why would John Roper of Halifax, VA, rather than William Roper and Keziah Yates of Caswell, NC, be the father of Jane F. Roper? First, secondary sources have mistakenly attributed all of the children of John Roper to William Roper and Keziah Yates. I have pointed this out in past postings. Second, John Roper purchased property from a George Samuel as seen in the L. David Roper database. This property was on the west side of Country Line Creek: "K:104: George Samuel to John Roper of Halifax Co. VA for 200 lbs 255 acres on creek near Ragsdale's old mill. 12 May 1797. Wit: Asa Thomas, James Robertson, Will Thomas." "N:133: John Roper to William Yates for 50 lbs 50 acres W side Country Line Cr. at Roper's Spring Br. 13 Nov 1798 Wit: Saml S. Farley, Abner Robinson." The Samuel Family, including Archibald Samuel, the attributed father of Herndon Samuel, can be seen in the L. David Roper database in numerous deeds in Caswell, NC, living next to John Roper and his family: "Caswell Co. Deeds: N:41: Joab Robinson of Linkham Co. (Lincoln Co.) KY to Matthew Terry for $177 88.5 acres on Miry Br of Country Line Cr adj Thomas Boulton, John Roper 4 Jan 1803 Wit: Danl S. Farley, Archd Samuel, John C.Rogers O:119: Allen Yates to Josiah Samuel for 100 lbs 150 acres on Country Line Cr. adj. John Roper, Thomas Boulton, John Rogers, Craften Williams, Lewis Vaughan, William Rainey, Joseph Flipper, William Yates, excepting his interest in the mother's dower during her life and after her death (Caty Yates) his interest included in this sale. 25 Oct 1805 Wit: John Stanfield, Archd Samuel D. Richards. Q:1: Durrett Richards to Matthew Terry for $200 88.5 acres on Ming Br. of Country Line Cr adj. Thomas Boulton, John Roper 8 Sep 1805. Wit: Jno Stamps, Jno Williams, Jas Samuel Azariah Graves. Q:76: John Roper to Henry Roper for $500 100 acres on Country Line Cr. adj. William Yates, heirs of Thomas Boulton 3 Nov 1809 Wit: Jno Stanfield, Durrett Richards, Archd Samuel. Q:65: Jesse Carter to John Swann for $500 140 acres & 38 acres on Rattlesnake Creek adj. David Roper, John Carmon 2 Jan 1810. Wit: A. L. Bennett, J. Barker. Q:211: Matthew Terry to heirs of Thomas Boulton for $300 pd by Thomas Boulton decd, 88.5 acres on Miry Br of Country Line Cr adj John Roper 13 jan 1810. Wit: Danl S. Farley, Archd Samuel, John Hubbard. Q:408: Jeremiah Samuel to Edward Samuel of Lincoln? Co. GA for $500 200 acres on Country Line Cr. adj Stephens 9 Jan 1812. Wit: Samuel Pittard, Henry Roper, Archd Samuel." John Roper moved from Halifax County, Virginia in about 1797 to Caswell, NC where he bought property. Sometime after 1813, when he suffered a judgment against his property, he moved to Cumberland, KY to be near his son David Roper. John took his son John C Roper with him to Cumberland, KY. The third son of John Roper was Henry Roper, who had married Rachel Farley in Caswell, NC and who remained in Caswell, NC. Third, Jane F. Samuel stated in the 1860 Rockcastle, KY census that she was born in Virginia in about 1793. William Roper and his wife Keziah Yates, to my knowledge, never lived in Virginia. John Roper is the only Roper who was living in Halifax County, VA when Jane F. Roper was born. Thus, I think it is quite clear that Jane F. Roper was the daughter of John Roper of Halifax County, VA. There is also a possible clue as to the identity of the wife of John Roper, based on naming patterns. John named a son David, after his father David Roper of Caswell, NC. He also named a son John, whom I believe was the father of David. Henry Roper, a son of John Roper, married Rachel Farley, daughter of Hezekiah Farley. Is it possible that John Roper of Halifax County, NC and his wife, named a daughter Jane F. Roper, which was the name of John's wife, Jane Farley? This is presently only a suspicion which I will have to follow-up on. Also, Jane F. Roper Herndon Samuel named a son John C. Samuel. Was he named after Jane's brother, John C. Roper? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1895/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am NOT aware of any surveyed and memorialized graves in Pulaski County, Kentucky, a place where pioneer ROPER families first settled in that state. One seemingly good place to look for ROPER graves would seem to be the ROPER Cemetery located at Mount Victory within the Daniel Boone National Forest. This ROPER Cemetery is located at Latitude 37.0200813, Longitude -84.3957705 (370112N 0842345W) about two miles east of Poplarville. It can be found on the USGS Map named "Dykes". See also: http://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=136:3:0::NO:3:P3_FID,P3_TITLE:516581,Roper Cemetery Kentucky State Highway 192 passes through the National Forest to the North and East. The Roper Cemetery seems to be on the hilltop adjacent the Mount Victory Lookout Tower, accessible on Mount Victory Road, which is accessible by Old Whitney Road from Highway 192. The location of the cemetery is shown on Google Maps here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Roper Cemetery/@37.020088,-84.395832,551m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x885d2f0a05b435f1:0x458a6790e349a5f2 The more precise location of the cemetery with respect to the Lookout Tower is shown in this depiction: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Roper Cemetery/@37.020261,-84.395287,275m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x885d2f0a05b435f1:0x458a6790e349a5f2 The location in respect to the nearby village of Mount Victory is shown here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Roper Cemetery/@37.0240712,-84.3938107,2202m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x885d2f0a05b435f1:0x458a6790e349a5f2 This ROPER Cemetery is about 107 miles North of Knoxville, Tennessee; 170 miles South of Cincinnati, Ohio, 125 miles East of Bowling Green, Kentucky, and 290 to 339 miles West of Blacksburg, Virginia, depending upon the route taken. * Nearby to the Northwest is a stream called "Roper Branch," a tributary of Buck Creek. That a nearby stream is named for the ROPER family is suggestive that this is a location of ancient family property and may be the site where Revolutionary War Veteran David ROPER once lived. ROPER Branch can also be seen depicted on this USGS National Map view of the area: http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/?p=default&b=base1&q=37.0200813 -84.3957705&l=15&x=-9394908.14399902&y=4442267.916857542&v= * * * If any ROPER researcher visits the ROPER Cemetery at Mount Victory, I would much appreciate hearing from you as to the inscriptions you find on any grave markers there. Ideally, it would be helpful to obtain photographs of any extant grave markers. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Rop Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1721.9/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Based upon James ROPER's Pension Application, he was already residing in Logan County, Kentucky by 1810. However, I have NOT yet found ANY promising Logan County Census records for this James ROPER. I have therefore somewhat widened my search to include ALL of Kentucky and have identified several records that seem to merit further scrutiny. There seem to be two James ROP households enumerated within Breckenridge County, Kentucky. Breckenridge County is on the Ohio River about sixty miles due North of Simpson County where James ROPER is later found. These seem to be adjacent households. I haven't examined the Census images yet. "United States Census, 1810," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XH2T-488 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), James Rop, Not Stated, Breckinridge, Kentucky; citing "1810 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 318, line 280, NARA microfilm publication M252, roll 5, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0181350. "United States Census, 1810," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XH2T-48P : accessed 14 Apr 2014), James Rop, Not Stated, Breckinridge, Kentucky; citing "1810 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 319, line 1910, NARA microfilm publication M252, roll 5, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0181350. * There is a James ROP marriage to a Susanna LYON shown within the Kentucky marriage indices to have taken place on 21 Feb 1801 in Bourban County, Kentucky. Bourban County is to the Northeast of Fayette County, where Lexington, KY, is located. I have examined this record and it appears to be a record for James ROSS rather than "ROP" or "ROPER". Of course, since James ROPER, of Simpson, KY, was married to Mary O'NEAL, who outlived him, we are NOT looking for another James ROPER marriage. But examining these primary records helps us to place and possibly eliminate other possible candidates, etc. See: "Kentucky, County Marriages, 1797-1954," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9999-21165-27?cc=1804888 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), 004542751 > image 270 of 670; citing Madison County Courthouse, Richmond. * There are two marriage records shown in Hardin County in the early 1800s. The earlier of these is shown to be a marriage of James ROPER to Nancy CARTER on 26 Aug 1830. Capy JOHNSON is apparently shown to be the mother of the bridge. The latter is shown to be a marriage of James ROP to Rachel MILLER on 05 Aug 1838. I have NOT seen either of the underlying records. Hardin County is immediately adjacent to Breckenridge County to the East, lending some credence to the possibility that the 1810 ROP households enumerated in Breckenridge County, KY, might be ROPERs. See: "Kentucky Marriages, 1785-1979," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F4QQ-MMG : accessed 14 Apr 2014), James Roper and Nancy Carter, 26 Aug 1830; citing Hardin, Kentucky, reference bk A pg 201 line 143; FHL microfilm 390788. "Kentucky Marriages, 1785-1979," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F4QQ-DLQ : accessed 14 Apr 2014), James Rop and Rachel Miller, 05 Aug 1838; citing Hardin, Kentucky, reference bk B Line 477; FHL microfilm 390788. There is also apparently a James ROP enumerated in York, South Carolina, in 1810. However, while nearer the 1800 location in Chester, SC, this York location seems even more incompatible with James ROPER's account of his travels after the Revolution. It is also possible that James ROPER was living just across the border from Simpson County in Sumner County, TN, or another border county and wasn't enumerated in any surviving Census since the 1810 U.S. Census returns for Tennessee were lost. Careful examination of the extant Tennessee Tax Lists seems to be indicated. We also need to examine Logan and Simpson County deeds to locate James ROPER's land. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Lea, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1893.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The Index Entries for William LEA's Probate are shown online at the FamilySearch.org website at page of the Estate index 1780-1925: "Georgia, Probate Records, 1742-1990," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-30365-868-17?cc=1999178&wc=9SYB-SPD:267832301,267852301 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), Wilkes > Estate index 1780-1925 > image 86 of 282. * * * As indicated within the previous post, the specific primary documents are: William LEA's Will (Jan. 9, 1794): Wilkes County Wills, 1794-1801 at page 112. William LEA's Inventory and Appraisement (July 1, 1794): Wilkes County Inventories, 1794-8 at pages 62-3. William LEA's Estate Sale (Nov. 10, 1794): Wilkes County Inventories, 1794-8 at pages 64-6 * Images of these documents are posted online at the FamilySearch.org website: William LEA's Will [File: Wills 1791-1819 vol C and GG-HH; Image 138 of 524] "Georgia, Probate Records, 1742-1990," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-30353-22178-76?cc=1999178&wc=9SYT-T3D:267832301,267926601 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), Wilkes > Wills 1791-1819 vol C and GG-HH > image 138 of 524. Inventory and Appraisement (Recorded July 1, 1794) "Georgia, Probate Records, 1742-1990," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-30353-10453-75?cc=1999178&wc=9SYT-GPG:267832301,267859301 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), Wilkes > Inventories and appraisements 1794-1806 bk LL > image 141 of 380. * Account of Sales (November 10, 1794, Recorded January 22, 1795) "Georgia, Probate Records, 1742-1990," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-30353-8937-73?cc=1999178&wc=9SYT-GPG:267832301,267859301 : accessed 14 Apr 2014), Wilkes > Inventories and appraisements 1794-1806 bk LL > image 142 of 380. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Adams, Masters Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/454.2.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: More than a decade ago within the post shown above, I noted some serious problems with ascriptions of various ROPERs represented to be children of Joshua ROPER, of Pickens, SC. I have not yet begun a concerted review of the various Pickens, SC, ROPER families and ascriptions, but have been able to sort out most of the early Edgefield, SC, ROPERs in several recent posts. One mis-ascription mentioned in the post above and resolved as a consequence of my recent research is the false ascription of William ROPER, of Forsyth, GA, as a son of Joshua ROPER. I have conclusively established that this William ROPER was instead the son of Daniel ROPER and Elizabeth ADAMS. After Daniel ROPER's untimely death, Elizabeth remarried Thomas MASTERS, of Greenville, SC. She is found in the 1850 Census residing within the household of William and Susan ROPER, of Forsyth, GA. Previous ascriptions that this Elizabeth MASTERS was the mother of William's wife Susan turns out to be sheer speculation, unsupported by any valid evidence. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Adams, Masters, Goodwyn Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/52.70/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Michael: For the benefit of yourself and all other descendants of William and Susan ROPER, of Forsyth, GA, I want to apologize for being far too quick to accept unsupported ascriptions and for republishing information from the Dave ROPER's ROPER Family History files without verifying the underlying data! My recent original research on the Edgefield ROPER families now seems to have rather conclusively established that William ROPER, of Forsyth, GA, was the son of Daniel ROPER and Elizabeth ADAMS. The Elizabeth MASTERS shown in William ROPER's 1850 Census record was NOT Susan ROPER's mother, as everyone seems to have been supposing, but rather William's widowed mother, who had remarried Thomas MASTERS after the untimely death of her first husband Daniel. The correct information is given within my thread: "Daniel ROPER (b 22 Mar 1785, d 17 Jul 1819 - Edgefield, SC), of Edgefield, SC" (25 Mar 2014 1:58PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1880/mb.ashx You and others interested in this ROPER family may want to correct your various lineages accordingly. You seem to be from the family of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN as shown within other of my recent posts concerning the Edgefield ROPER families. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Adams, Masters Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1880.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I previously discussed William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA), son of Daniel ROPER and Elizabeth ADAMS about a decade ago within several ROPER Message Board posts since removed from the ROPER Message Board, but still archived. In order to revive the more significant underlying data, I have COPIED the critical data from the earlier posts, while linking the archived post: "1850 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) United States Census -- 1850 District 31, Forsyth County, GA 12 Aug 1850 Line 11, Dwelling 147, Family 147, William ROPER, age 41, Male, Farmer, R.E. $500, Born SC Line 12, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Susan ROPER, age 41, Female, Born SC Line 13, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Rachel ROPER, age 19, Female, Born SC Line 14, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Jacen [Jason] ROPER, age 18, Male, Born SC Line 15, Dwelling 147, Family 147, James ROPER, age 13, Male, Born SC Line 16, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Alexander ROPER, age 11, Male, Born SC Line 17, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Robert ROPER, age 8, Male, Born SC Line 18, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Joseph ROPER, age 6, Male, Born SC Line 19, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Claiborn ROPER, age 3, Male, Born GA Line 20, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Jesse ROPER, born age 7/12, Male, Born GA Line 21, Dwelling 147, Family 147, Elizabeth MASTER, age 70, Female, Born NC [Image 22 of 189 for District 31, Forsyth County, GA, at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1850 Census data.]" See: "1850 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (28 Dec 2004 17:25:56 -0700) [Archived] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/roper/2004-12/1104279956 * * * "1860 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) United States Census -- 1860 Cumming, Forsyth County, GA 02 Jun 1860 Line 14, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Wm ROPER, age 51, Male, Farmer, R.E. $1,200, Pers Estate $350, Born SC Line 15, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Susan ROPER, age 51, Female, Born SC Line 16, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Robert ROPER, age 17, Male, Born SC Line 17, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Joseph ROPER, age 15, Male, Born GA Line 18, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Claiborn ROPER, age 12, Male, Born GA Line 19, Dwelling 65, Family 70, Larkin ROPER, age 10, Male, Born GA [Image 11 of 172 for (Cumming) Forsyth County, GA, at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1860 Census data]" See: "1860 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (28 Dec 2004 17:41:50 -0700) [Archived] http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/roper/2004-12/1104280910 * * * "1870 Census Record of William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) United States Census -- 1870 Cumming, Vickery Creek District, Forsyth County, GA 12 Aug 1870 Line 10, Dwelling 45, Family 68, ROPER, William, age 61, Male, White, Farmer, R.E. $700, Pers Estate $250, Born SC Line 11, Dwelling 45, Family 68, ROPER, Susan, age 62, Female, White, Keeping House, Born SC Line 12, Dwelling 45, Family 68, TAYLOR, Martha, age 31, Female, White, Farm Hand, Born GA * Line 13, Dwelling 46, Family 69, ROPER, Larkin, age 20, Male, White, Farm Hand, R.E. $0, Pers Estate $100, Born GA Line 14, Dwelling 46, Family 69, ROPER, Larenia?, age 19, Female, White, Keeping House, Born GA Line 15, Dwelling 46, Family 69, ROPER, Rosalee, age 2, Female, White, At Home, Born GA Line 16, Dwelling 46, Family 69, ROPER, Joseph, age 1/12, Male, White, At Home, Born GA in Apr 1870 [Image 10 of 24 for the Vickery Creek District, Forsyth County, GA, presentation of the 1870 Census data at Ancestry.com] * * * I believe that this is the 1870 Census record for your William and Susan Master ROPER. There appears to be no evidence in the Census records that William and Susan Master ROPER had any children following Larkin. Secondary sources show that the Jesse ROPER, age 7/12 in 1850, and Larkin ROPER, age 10 in 1860, were the same child: Jesse Larkin ROPER. Larkin ROPER appears again in the 1880 Census residing at Vickerys Creek, Forsyth, Georgia. Larkin's father William ROPER is also residing in his HH in 1880." See: "1870 Census Record of William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (28 Dec 2004 19:44:10 -0700) http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/roper/2004-12/1104288250 * * * "1880 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) United States Census -- 1880 Vickery Creek District, Forsyth County, GA 18 Jun 1880 Line 49, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, William, White, Male, Age 72, Farmer, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA Line 50, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, Larkin, White, Male, Age 30, Farmer, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA Line 1, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, Mary C., White, Female, Age 29, Wife, Keeping House, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA Line 2, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, Malissa R., White, Female, Age 11, Daughter, At Home, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA Line 3, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, Joseph, White, Male, Age 10, Son, Working on Farm, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA Line 4, Dwelling 154, Family 154, ROPER, Susan L., White, Female, Age 3, Daughter, Born GA, Fa Born GA, Mo Born GA [Images 26, 27 of 36 for Forsyth County, Georgia, in the presentation of 1880 Census data at Ancestry.com] * * * As can be readily seen from the 1850, 1860 and 1870 Census records, William ROPER was actually born in SC, NOT in Georgia. From the ages and places of birth of the children in the 1870 Census record, we may reasonably infer that William ROPER came to Georgia from South Carolina between 1843 and 1845. Larkin ROPER (b abt Jan-Feb 1850 - Forsyth County, GA) appears in the Census records either within the household of or alongside his father in 1850, 1860, and 1870, as well. Some secondary sources show two daughters names Rosilee and Malissa. It appears to me from these Census records that this is the SAME child named Malissa Rosilee ROPER. Susan Masters ROPER is clearly already deceased by 1880. One secondary source shows her date of death as 07 Mar 1879. I have NOT verified this information, but it appears to be consistent and is probably reliable." See: "1880 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (28 Dec 2004 20:13:04 -0700) http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/roper/2004-12/1104289984 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Masters, Adams Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1880.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Almost a decade ago, I posted a transcription of the Census record of William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA): "1850 Census Record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (28 Dec 2004 1:25PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/52.64/mb.ashx Within this William ROPER's household was an Elizabeth MASTERS, age 70 (b abt 1780 - NC). This Census record had not escaped the earlier notice of other researchers, who had apparently made the inference that this Elizabeth MASTERS was the MOTHER of William ROPER's wife Susan, age 41, born South Carolina. * In a separate follow-up post, I noted that William ROPER and Susan ROPER were shown to have been interred at the Friendship Baptist Church in Forsyth County: "Grave of William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA)" (25 Jan 2005 1:41PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/52.64.1/mb.ashx * * * The ascription of Elizabeth MASTERS as Susan ROPER's Mother, apparently made based upon the bare inference that an older woman with a different surname living within the household of a couple a generation younger must be the WIFE's mother, shows the DANGER of making an ascription based upon such thin evidence. In this instance, it turns out that there is an ABUNDANCE of extant evidence that would have allowed for a correct ascription if researchers had simply looked a little further at the records! * * * The correct ascription is both quite easy and rather conclusive if one just scratches a little beneath the surface of pure conjecture and guesswork. Elizabeth MASTERS gives us ALL of the necessary clues within her own Revolutionary War Pension Application to which William and Susan ROPER were supporting witnesses! Will GRAVES has posted a partial transcription of the Pension Applications of Thomas MASTERS and his widow Elizabeth MASTERS at this URL: http://revwarapps.org/w13688.pdf Thomas MASTERS' Pension Application begins: "State of South Carolina Greenville District: On this Third day of November 1818 before me the Subscriber Judge of the Court of Sessions and Common Pleas in the State of South Carolina aforesaid, personally appeared Thomas Masters aged Sixty four years resident in the District of Greenville aforesaid ..." Thomas MASTERS' initial application seems NOT to have been acted upon and he thereafter made a supplemental application (or additional deposition in Court) in support of that application: "On this fourth day of April in the year of our Lord 1821 personally appeared in Open court being a court of Record of General Sessions of the Peace, and Common Pleas held for the district of Greenville in the State of South Carolina, by & before Daniel E Hugee Esquire one of the associate Judges of the said State, Thomas Masters age sixty six years, resident in Greenville district in the said State, who being first duly sworn according to law doth on his oath declare that he served in the Revolutionary war as follows, to wit, that he enlisted for the term of 18 months, on or about the year before Charlestown South Carolina was taken, in Rockbridge County in the State of Virginia, in the company commanded by Captain Adam Wallace, in the Regiment commanded by Colonel Ab. Bluford, in the line of the State of Virginia on the (11th Regiment) Continental establishment, that he continued to serve in the said Corps for 18 months ..." Thomas MASTERS goes on to describe his family in this way: "A Family consisting of 3 children, namely George aged 20 years, Margaret 17 years, & Polly 14 years, and I the said Thomas Masters do further swear that I am so infirm in body from age & other causes, being a cripple (merely able to walk) that I am unable to support myself by manual labor, farming being my principal Occupation; that I have barely supported and existence by the help of my Children, the 2 first of whom are probably able to support themselves." * Will GRAVES' transcription then further informs us of the supplemental application of Elizabeth MASTERS: "On October 6, 1854 in Forsyth County Georgia, Elizabeth Masters, 75, made application for a widow's pension under the 1853 act stating that she is the widow of Thomas Masters, a revolutionary war pensioner at the rate of $96 per annum; she thinks he died August 26, 1838; that she married him in Greenville District South Carolina January 1, 1822; that they were married by John Roberts, JP; that her name prior to her marriage was Elizabeth Roper. She signed her application with her mark." * Note the exactness of the conformity of the Pension Application information to the information appearing in the 1850 Census enumeration. Elizabeth MASTERS' made her application in Forsyth, Georgia, the precise place where she was enumerated in 1850. Elizabeth identifies her own age at she was age 75 at 06 Oct 1854, compared to age 70 in the 1850 Census enumeration. Elizabeth identifies he "name prior to her marriage" as Elizabeth ROPER. Note that Elizabeth does NOT state that this was her MAIDEN NAME. This is because Elizabeth was a WIDOW and William ROPER, of Forsyth, Georgia was her SON rather than Susan being her DAUGHTER. Thus, the widespread ascription that Susan ROPER's maiden name was "MASTERS" is almost certainly erroneous. Elizabeth helps us to understand that she married Thomas MASTERS on 01 Jan 1822 in Greenville, South Carolina, and that Thomas MASTERS died on 26 Aug 1838. Will GRAVES' transcription also shows that BOTH Susan ROPER and William ROPER made supporting affidavits and that they also reside in Forsyth, Georgia. That both request pensions were granted reflects that the War Department found both applications to be meritworthy. * * * Once one realizes that Elizabeth MASTERS was Elizabeth ROPER prior to her marriage, we are presented with the rather trivial problem of finding her in the 1820 Census where she was enumerated in Edgefield, SC. * * * The 1850 Census record for William ROPER (b abt 1809 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) shows ALL of the older ROPER children, including Joseph ROPER, age 6, as born in South Carolina. The two youngest children -- Claiborn ROPER, age 3, and Jesse ROPER, age 7/12 -- are shown to be born in Georgia. Thus, William ROPER seems to have migrated to Georgia between 1844 and 1847. * * * Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Hayes, Lea Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1893.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Within the initial post of this thread above, I previously noted the marriage of Sally ROPER ("Sally possibly a nickname for "Sarah") to William HAYES in Sumner County, TN, on 21 Jul 1810, within the context of discussing the possiblity that the William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC), of Smith County TN, might be the William ROPER identified within William LEA's Will. But focus on James ROPER as a candidate to be William ROPER and Sarah ROPER's father presents another prism through which to assess the ROPER - HAYES marriage record. While Sumner County was adjacent to Smith County, TN, where John Y. ROPER settled at an early date and William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC) settled by 1850, prior to the creation of Trousdale County, Sumner County is also IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT to the South of Simpson County, Kentucky, where Revolutionary War Veteran James ROPER (b abt 1756-60?, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) settled after migrating from Caswell, NC, and later Chester, SC. As far as I can tell, no one has ever bothered to inspect the Simpson County, KY, deeds and locate the ancient ROPER properties in Simpson County, Kentucky. Franklin, the Simpson Couny seat, situated near the center of the county, is located less than six miles from the Tennessee state line. If James ROPER resided in the Southern half of Simpson County, he was probably even closer to Tennessee and Sumner County. It is only about another 17.5 miles from the state line to Gallatin, the County seat of Sumner County. Thus, the marriage of Sally ROPER to William HAYES on 21 Jun 1810 may be another significant clue that James ROPER was the husband the unnamed LEA daughter and father of William and Sarah ROPER. IF this is the correct Sarah ROPER, I am still disinclined to believe that William ROPER (b abt 1774 - NC) would be this Sarah's brother. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Metcalfe, Liddell Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1873.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The family of Judge William P. ROPER's daughter Mary Metcalf ROPER, who married St. John Richardson LIDDELL on 02 Sep 1841 at Montrose plantation (owned by James METCALFE), is discussed with the book "Liddell's Record," edited by St. John Richardson Liddell and Nathaniel Cheairs Hughes, at pages 14-6. This LIDDELL - ROPER marriage is documented in Adams County, Mississippi, Marriage Book VI, at page 498, and other information seems to appear in extant letters. See Liddell's Record for details. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Barnes Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1894/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Occasionally, modern researchers make the mistake of speculating that an ancient marriage might have been dissolved by divorce rather than death. However, divorce statutes which allowed for courts to grant divorces were adopted in many states only in rather modern times. The more ancient means of obtaining divorces in many states was to apply to the state legislature for a private bill to be enacted dissolving a marriage. Exemplary of the more ancient approach is the statutory enactment of the Kentucky legislature on February 22, 1834, of a bill characterized as Chapter 452 "An ACT for the benefit of Amelia S. Barnes". Both for the purposes of instructing researchers as to the more ancient procedure and to share the genealogical details of one such act, I have transcribed the statutory enactment below: "Chapter 452. -- An ACT for the benefit of Amelia S. Barnes Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, That the marriage contract existing between Amelia S. Barnes and her husband Nathan Barnes, be, and the same is hereby dissolved and disannulled as to the said Amelia, and that she be restored to her maiden name, Amelia S. Roper. [Approved February 22, 1834]" See: Acts Passed at the Forty Second Session of the General Assembly for the Commonwealth (Frankfort, KY: Albert G. Hodges, 1834), Page 683 http://books.google.com/books?id=7Cc4AAAAIAAJ&dq=Rope&pg=PA638#v=onepage&q=Roper &f=false * * * Note 1: Amelia ROPER is shown to have married Nathan BARNES on 13 Sep 1825 in Fleming, Kentucky. See: "Kentucky Marriages, 1785-1979," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FWB2-1H4 : accessed 13 Apr 2014), Nathan Barnes and Amelia Roper, 13 Sep 1825; citing Fleming, Kentucky, reference p23 l5; FHL microfilm 344015. Note 2: Immediately following the divorce granted by the legislature, Amelia S. ROPER is shown to have remarried John HOLLINGSWORTH on 23 Apr 1834 in Fleming, Kentucky. See: "Kentucky Marriages, 1785-1979," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FWBL-62Y : accessed 13 Apr 2014), John Hollingsworth and Amelia S. Roper, 23 Apr 1834; citing Fleming, Kentucky, reference Bk B p102; FHL microfilm 344015. Note 3: Based solely on LOCATION, it seems most likely that Amelia S. ROPER is closely related to Judge William P. ROPER, of Fleming, Kentucky, son of Shadrach ROPER, of Powhatan, VA. Judge ROPER died on 18 Aug 1833. Amelia may be a daughter of Judge William P. ROPER, but this should be treated as a speculative ascription which needs to be confirmed by additional primary records research. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lea, Neel, Neal, Neil, O'Neal, O'Neil Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1893.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In the prior post establishing this thread, I showed that there are two ROPER grandchildren of William LEA born to an unidentified ROPER and and an unnamed daughter of Willam LEA (which daughter seems to have been born befoe 1769 and died before 09 Jan 1794. I further identified three Caswell ROPERs as the best candidates IF the unnamed daughter married a Caswell County ROPER: William ROPER (b bef 1759) [the William ROPER shown to have married Keziah YATES] James ROPER (b abt 1756-60?, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) [the Revolutionary War Veteran] John ROPER (b. bef. 1756, d. aft. 1820 - Cumberland, KY) * This post focuses on perhaps he single best of these three candidates: James ROPER (b abt 1756-60?, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) As a preliminay matter, I want to expressly call to researcher's attention that while the Revolutionary Pension Application of James ROPER, of Simpson, Kentucky, shows this James ROPER to have been born in June 1745, I previously showed that this birth informaion is inconsistent with the data shown in the 1800 and 1830 Census records. See my thread: "James ROPER (b Jun 1745 - Caswell, NC, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY)" (27 Nov 2012 3:23PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1721/mb.ashx See especially the 1800 Census Record, the 1830 Census record and the additional posts discussing James ROPER's age: "James ROPER's 1800 Census Record" (27 Nov 2012 5:16PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1721.1/mb.ashx "James ROPER's 1830 Census Record" (27 Nov 2012 6:43PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1721.3/mb.ashx "When Was James ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) Really Born??" (27 Nov 2012 9:51PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1721.4/mb.ashx I reached the conclusion that the information in te Census records was in this case more reliable than the very specific month and of James ROPER's birth given in James ROPER's Court testimony and have accordingly ascribed a birth year range of about 1756-60. * * * JAMES ROPER's CENSUS DATA James ROPER or TOPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 (no slaves) [Chester, SC 1800] James ROPER: 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- NO SLAVES [Simpson, KY 1820] James ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 6 Total, No Slaves [Simpson, KY 1830] Implicit in this Census data are these implied birth ranges for James ROPER: 1800: b abt 1756-74 (age 26 to 44) 1820: b bef 1766 (age 45 and over) 1830: b abt 1751-60 (age 70 to 79) * * * JAMES ROPER's MARRIAGE DATE Within his Pension Application, it is twice asserted that James ROPER married May NEAL in 1788. Significantly, it is also asserted that this was James ROPER's SECOND marriage. But the extant marriage records for Caswell County reflect a marriage of James ROPER to Mary O'NEIL on 27 Mar 1792. Since that is the date on the marriage bond, the marriage ay have even been solemnized a few days later. We are given this very specific information concerning Mary ROPER's date of birth: "Mary Neel who was born 22 Apr 1766 in Fauquier Co., VA." We have additional specific information concerning Mary NEAL/NEEL/O'NEAL from the affdavits of James and Elizabeth PONDS: "Affidavits of James Pond and wife Elizabeth who were neighbors of James & Mary Roper in Caswell County and now lived in Sumner Co., TN: James & Elizabeth married and had two children, and Mary Neal was in the habit of visiting this affiants house on Moon's Creek in Caswell Co., NC and that James Roper asked this affiants hand to court the said Mary who was a poor orphan girl and had no settle home of her own, which was granted, and said James Roper done as he requested, and in a short time afterward they were married at the house of John Adams, a cousin to the said Mary Neal." * Other researchers have ocassionaly seized upon another primary record, the Orange County Will of John GEER or GREER dated 18 Aug 1769 in support of an assertion that this James ROPER was previously married to an unnamed daughter of John GREER's. This GREER Will apparently makes a specific token bequest of two shillings to son-in-law James ROPER. This would seem to reflect either that John GREER thought he had already made a fair disposition of property to his daughter at her marriage OR, perhaps, that the daughter had since died possibly without children and that a signfiicant bequest to James ROPER was unnecessary or inappropriate. We need not reach any conclusions about the specifics of the relaionship of James ROPER to this John GREER and the unnamed daughter, because it is readily evident that this CANNOT BE the SAME James ROPER identified in teh Revolutionary War Pension Application. THE DATES SIMPLY DO NOT WORK OUT! I have discussed above reasons why the June 1745 date of birth for James ROPER seems unreliable and have proposed that the correct date range seems more likey to be 1756-60. If I am CORRECT, then the Revolutionary War Veteran James ROPER would have been only age NINE to THIRTEEN at the date of John GREER's Will. (If the June 1745 date were correct, admittedly, this James ROPER would have been about age 24 when John GREER died.) Moreover, if we accept this ascription of a prior marriage to an unnamed GREER daughter, we are then left to accept that this James ROPER remained unmarried for an interval of twenty three years before marrying Mary O'NEAL in 1792. * * * JAMES ROPER's UNEXPLAINED CHILDREN Recognizing that identification and ascription of the 1800 Census record for James ROPER is far from certain, I still believe that this Census record is probably that of James ROPER for the reasons set forth withn my post "James ROPER's 1800 Census Record" (27 Nov 2012 5:16PM). I had separately shown within my post "The Travels of James ROPER (d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY)" that Chester County, SC, was the place we should EXPECT to find James ROPER. In fact, I found the indicated Census record there after first ascertaining that this would be the correct place to look. There may very well be other extant primary evidence of James ROPER's presence in Chester, SC. As far as I can tell, NO ONE HAS BOTHERED TO LOOK at the other extant Chester records. Accpting, arguendo, that the Chester record I identified IS that of James ROPER, take another look at what it seems to tell us: James ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 (no slaves) [Chester, SC 1800] This James ROPER's households shown to have a female age 26 to 44 (b abt 1756-7). There are shown to be two male children under the age of 10 (b abt 1791-1800) and two female children under the age of ten. This seems quite consistent with the older female being Mary O'NEAL (b 22 Apr 1766 - Fauquier, VA) and this couple having FOUR children in the eight year interval between the KNOWN actual date of the ROPER - O'NEAL marriage (27 Mar 1792) and the 1800 Census enumeration. Given the lateness in the month of March of the ROPER O'NEAL marriage it is both statistically and bologically UNLIKELY that ANY child would have been born to this couple before January 1793 at the earliest. In my view, this couple having FOUR children during the interval 1793 to 1800 is CONSISTENT with the known marriage date. IT MAKES SENSE! The PRECISE conformance of Mary O'Neal ROPER's KNOWN date of birth and the age of the younger children seem to correspond TOO EXACTLY with what we know of James ROPER's wife and date of marriage for this to ba chance outcome! * But there are also precisely two other children shown in is Census record, one male and the other female. Each is shown to be age 10 to 15 (b abt 1785-90). Thus, EACH of these children CANNOT have been born to this couple UNLESS the were born out of wedlock. These children then seem to have been from a prior marriage of either James ROPER or Mary NEAL. In my view, the description of Mary NEAL in the PONDS affidavit is INCONSISTENT with the idea that Mary NEAL was a WIDOW. She described instead as a poor "orphan." I suspect that if the PONDS knew Mary NEAL as a young widow, that her widowhood and young children would have been the salient charactristic they might have pointed to their account of the marriage. Instead, Mary is described as a poor orphan and James is expressly shown to have married Mary O'NEAL as a SECOND WIFE. In my view, this primary evidence from the James ROPER Pension Application supports a very STRONG INFERENCE that the two children born between 1785 and 1790 are James ROPER's childen from a prior marrage. * There are also some other inferences that might be made in consideration that James ROPER had two children under age seven at the date of his marriage to Mary O'NEAL. First, children of this age are in need of a mother. And the need for a mother is even greater when the children are youngest. In my view, this supports a reasonably strong inference that James ROPER probably remarried very quickly after his first wife's death. I going to go out on a limb here to assert that James ROPER probably remarried within three years of his first wife's death and more likely remarried within a year. The speed of remarriage probably relates to the age of the children. The younger the children, the faster the remarriage. Second, the primary cause of death of young women in those days was in pregnancy or childbirth. It seems reasonably likely that James ROPER's first wife probably died in pregnancy or childbirth, bearing the couple's third child (who did not survive), OR died bearing the second child who DID survive. My suspicion then is that James ROPER's first wife died either coincident with the birth of the second child OR died up to about three to four years later in a subsequent pregnancy, as pregnancies occured with great regularity in those days. Third, we are given the rather intresting anomolous information in James ROPER's Pension Application that he married in 1788. At the date he was deposed in Court in 1733, James ROPER was apparently already both blind and senile. While there is some possibility that the year to which he testified was taken down and transcribed incorrectly, or that he was competely mistaken about his year of marriage, yet another possiblity emerges from review of the data. Perhaps James ROPER WAS married in 1788! But this date may have reflected the marriage date of the FIRST WIFE. For whatever reason, James ROPER seemed to remember that 1788 date, which is QUITE plausible in respect of the Census data. If James ROPER first married in early 1788 and then had two chldren in quick succession, perhaps in 1788 and 1789, these would both be age 10 to 15 (b abt 1790) in 1800. James ROPER's wife migt have then died in a third pregnancy in 1790 or 1791, with James ROPER remarrying in March 1792. Such a construction would also seem to harmonize what we know from the William LEA Will. William LEA died in 1794 and his unnamed daugther was already dead. By this date, if James ROPER was his son-in-law, James had REMARRIED and possibly already fathered a third child by Mary O'NEAL. James ROPER's remarriage and enlarged family would have justified a specific bequest to his own grandchildren. By giving the grandhildren the remainder interest in a slave (to which he beqeathed a life interest to his wife), William LEA assured that there would be some wealth to endow his grandchildren, but the bequest wouldn't be dissipated on James ROPER's other younger children. * * * While I will stop short of making an ascription that James ROPER is unnamed son-in-law of William LEA and the father of William ROPER and Sarah ROPER, it seems to me that the extant data seems to be consistent with that possibility. Without making such an ascripton, it seems to me that we should then focus on whether there exists other information which might support or disprove the hypothesis that James ROPER first married a LEA. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1887.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I have no solid answer for you, but I have a few thoughts. I have never established who married John Roper of Halifax, VA. I don't have a first name and she doesn't appear in any of John's deed records. My suspicion is that he married one of the Lewis family women, but this is based soley on John's appearance as a witness to the will of John Lewis in Halifax, VA, which apparently was probated in Caswell, NC. But all of this is still pure speculation. I read your article on the "ROPER Grandchildren of William LEA (d 1794 - GA), of Wilkes County, GA" (10 Apr 2014 2:09PM) http://boards.ancestry.com.au/surnames.roper/1893/mb.ashx. I think you have a pretty thorough list of the usual suspects to be considered as the possible father of William and Sarah Roper. After reading your article, I get the impression that the parents of Wiliiam and Sarah Roper had died, although I could be wrong. In any case, they were minors in 1794 when the will was executed as they hadn't "come of age" as yet. After William Lee's wife Nancy died in 1809, they appear to be of age to receive the proceeds of the sale of the slave. So if they were at least 21 in 1809, their latest birth date would be around 1788. All the candidates for the father of William and Sarah Roper that you list seem to be still living in 1794, with the exception of one possibility, James Roper. John Roper is found in Caswell in 1798. Although we are having an argument over William Roper and Kiziah Yates, I believe that at least William was still living in 1794 and later. David Roper is obviously still alive in Kentucky in 1810. George Roper is still alive in Jefferson County, IL in 1820. So, if the parents of William and Sarah Roper were dead, by the process of elimination, that leaves James Roper of Caswell, NC as the possible father of William and Sarah Roper. I have always been a bit confused by L. David Roper's suggestion that the James Roper in Burke, NC was the same James Roper in Caswell, NC. They may have both been in Caswell at some time, but I think we are perhaps speaking of two different James Ropers. James Roper appears in these Caswell, NC records: "Caswell County North Carolina Land Grants, Tax Lists, State Census, Apprentice Bonds, Estate Records, by Katharine Kerr Kendall: 1777 Tax List: Amount Taxable Property of the Inhabitants of the Several districts in the County of Caswell also those who by law are liable to pay a poll Tax returned by the several assessors to December Court 1777. NB Those left blank are liable to pay a poll tax. Signed Wm Moore C.C. May 2d 1778. ... David Roper Sen., Richmond District, 403 pounds & 8 shillings David Roper Jun., Richmond District; James Roper, Richmond District; William Roper, Richmond District State Census of North Carolina, 1786, for Caswell County. The report for Richmond District is missing. No Roper is listed." L David Roper database. "Caswell County marriages in the 1700s are:... John Yeats & Jemima Ropper 8 Mar 1779 BmW: James Ropper, W. Campbell" "1790 US Census for NC: M16up M<16 - F - other free - slaves Burke Co.: James Roper 1 1 - 2 - 0 - 0 Caswell Co.: Hillsborough District James Roper - - - - - - - - William Roper - - - - - - - -" After 1790, there are no further appearances by a James Roper in Caswell, NC, and I cannot find him anywhere else L. David Roper has suggested that perhaps the James Roper in Burke, NC, as shown in the 1790 census above, returned with his father David Roper to Caswell, NC, and thus appeared in both the 1790 Caswell and 1790 Burke census records. I have seen this happen once with another individual who appeared in two different State census records in the same year, but this is an unlikely scenario in my opinion. And since I am also of the opinion that the James Roper in Burke, NC was the probable son of Meredith Roper, I am further convinced that we are dealing with two different James Ropers. Of course, you and I have differing opinions on much of what I have related. And even if I am correct in most of my assumptions, drawing the conclusion that James Roper of Caswell, merely because he disappeared after 1790, was the father of William and Sarah Roper of Wilkes County, GA, is highly speculative without additional factual or circumstantial support. I find the appearance of a William Lee next to John Roper in Halifax, VA to be a excellent observation on your part. Also, I very much enjoyed your latest posting on the William Ropers in Tennessee, which was very thoughtful and well argued. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>