This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Stephenson, Stevenson, Cummins, Rippee, Hardin, Breedlove Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Having shown John ROPER's presence in Pulaski County, MO, and the rich and specific information as to the birth dates of his children, as well as their dates of marriage, it is useful to show some additional primary source information which confirms most of the posted information from John H. ROPER's (b 27 Jan 1819) family Bible. FURTHER GENEALOGICAL INFORMATION FROM THE MARRIAGES OF THE CHILDREN Additional genealogical information about the identity of the spouses and the prior movements of the family can be garnered from the extant marriage information related to John and Nancy ROPER's children: Mary ROPER m Nicholas STEPHENSON on 21 Nov 1830 in St. Clair County, IL Rebekah ROPER m John CUMMINS on 03 Nov 1831 in St. Louis, St. Louis County, MO. See: "Illinois Marriages, 1815-1935," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V2PD-1NT : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Nicholas Stephenson and Mary Roper, 21 Nov 1830; citing St Clair County, Illinois; FHL microfilm 2169147. "Missouri, Marriages, 1750-1920," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V2DD-WLQ : accessed 19 Apr 2014), John Cummins and Rebekah Roper, 03 Nov 1831; citing Saint Louis,St Louis,Missouri; FHL microfilm 469561. Ancestry also gives the 03 Nov 1831 marriage date and shows the Rebekah ROPER - John CUMMINS marriage to have been memorialized in Volume 1, Page 179, of St. Louis County, MO, marriage records. The difference between the date shown in the public records and the date shown in the Bible is likely explained by a differing date as to license and/or marriage bond and the date the marriage was actually solemnized, probably by a Methodist minister. * It bears noting that St. Clair, County, IL, is immediately adjacent to St. Louis County, MO. By crossing the Mississippi River, one crosses both the state and county line, so moving from St. Clair to St. Louis involves merely crossing the Mississippi River. * * * GENEALOGICAL INFORMATION GARNERED FROM 1850 CENSUS RECORDS OF THE CHILDREN The genealogical information in John Henry ROPER's family Bible is precisely consistent with the 1850 Census record for John ROPER, showing William ROPER, age 33 (b abt 1817 - TN), Letitia ROPER, age 19 (b abt 1831 - IL), Louise ROPER, age 16 (b abt 1834 - MO). Telethe or Telete seems to be Letitia in the Census record. Similarly, the 1850 Census records for Rebecca CUMMINS (b abt 1818 - TN) and John H. ROPER (b abt 1819 - TN), each enumerated in Wright County, MO, also agrees with the transcription of the family Bible. * John and Nancy ROPER's daughter Mary STEVENSON, age 39, can be found enumerated in Greene County, MO, residing in the household of husband Nicholas STEVENSON and children. She is shown to be born in TENNESSEE. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MDZH-LG3 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Mary Stevenson in household of Nicholas Stevenson, Taylor, Greene, Missouri, United States; citing family 1431, NARA microfilm publication M432. * As previously noted, Rebecca CUMMINS is enumerated on the SAME Census page as John ROPER in 1850 and is shown to be born in Tennessee. Elizabeth ROPER had married RIPPEE, but was already dead by 1850. * Sarah Roper HARDIN, age 27 and born in Tennessee, is enumerated with husband S. [Samuel] S. HARDIN and two daughters in Wright County, MO, in 1850. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MDZR-1G9 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Sarah Hardin in household of S C Hardin, Wright county, Wright, Missouri, United States; citing family 360, NARA microfilm publication M432. * Margaret (Roper) BREEDLOVE, shown to be age 23 (b abt 1827), is enumerated with her husband Milton BREEDLOVE, age 36, and two children, residing in Wright County, MO. Margaret is shown to be born in Tennessee. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V5PD-XWK : accessed 20 Apr 2014), Margaret Breedlove in household of Milton Breedlove, Wright county, Wright, Missouri, United States; citing family 206, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * * THE MIGRATIONS OF JOHN ROPER's FAMILY Note the place of birth of Leticia / Telethe E. Roper (b 27 Oct 1830) is shown to be Illinois rather than Tennessee or Missouri. Similarly, Mary ROPER is shown to have Nicholas STEPHENSON on 21 Nov 1830 in St. Clair County, IL. Taletia's birthplace in Illinois is further confirmed in her 1860 Census record showing her residing with husband Felix MILLER, age 22 and born in Georgia, in 1860, residing in Hillsborn, Hill County, Texas, in 1860. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MXFF-1N3 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Felix Miller, Exclusive Of Hillsborn, Hill, Texas, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 57, household ID 394, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 805297. * * By contrast, Margaret Ann ROPER (b 17 Jan 1827) is shown to be born in Tennessee. It therefore appears that John ROPER and his family probably migrated from Tennessee to Illinois sometime between 17 Jan 1827 and 27 Oct 1830. Thereafter, the family seems to have migrated from Illinois to Missouri sometime before the birth of Louisa C. ROPER on 17 Nov 1833. * * It is clear that John ROPER's (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863) is NOT enumerated as a head of household in the extant 1820 Census records. However, the Census returns for 1820 for ALL East Tennessee Counties have been LOST. Thus, we might reasonably infer that John and Nancy ROPER probably resided in East Tennessee in 1820 at the birth of their eldest children, ALL of whom are shown in Census returns to have been born in Tennessee. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Hubbard, Walker, Stephensen, Stevenson, Cummins, Pool, Pettypool, Childress, Long, Rippee, Hardin, Miller, Turner, Foster Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899/mb.ashx Message Board Post: One ROPER ancestor about whom a great deal is known, but who still presents a bit of a puzzle as to the prior generation is John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863), of Greene and Pulaski Counties, Missouri. This John ROPER seems to first clearly appear in the U.S. Census as a head of household in 1840, residing in Pulaski County, MO. John ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [Pulaski, MO 1840] This John ROPER is shown to be age 50 to 59 (b abt 1781-90) with a wife age 40 to 49 (b abt 1791-90). See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHT3-3F2 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), John Roper, Not Stated, Pulaski, Missouri; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 227, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 229, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0014857. * Also enumerated in Pulaski County, MO, that same year is an Elizabeth ROPER, APPEARING IN THE IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT RECORD. Elizabeth ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [Pulaski, MO 1840] As can be seen, Elizabeth ROPER is shown to be age 80 to 89 (b abt 1751-60). Secondary sources and family lore identify this Elizabeth ROPER as John ROPER's widowed mother. I will further discuss Elizabeth ROPER in a future post. See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHT3-3NH : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Elizabeth Roper, Not Stated, Pulaski, Missouri; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 227, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 229, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0014857. * This John ROPER, shown to be age 62 (b abt 1788) and born in North Carolina, next appears in the 1850 Census residing in Wright County, MO, residing with William ROPER, age 33 (b abt 1817), Letitia ROPER, age 19 (b abt 1831), Louise ROPER, age 16 (b abt 1834), and Eli RIPPER, age 3 (b abt 1847). The birth places of the younger members of the household in this Census give some sense of the prior migrations. William was born in Tennessee. Letitia was born in Illinois. Louisa was born in Missouri. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MDZR-JQ2 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), John Roper, Wright county, Wright, Missouri, United States; citing family 32, NARA microfilm publication M432. Enumerated immediately after John ROPER on the same Census page is John H. ROPER, age 31 (b abt 1819 - TN), residing with wife Nancy, age 22 (b abt 1828 - TN), and daughter Mary, age 1 (b abt 1849 - MO). In the household immediate preceding that of John ROPER is the household of John CUMMINS, age 43 (b abt 1807 - MO) and Rebecca CUMMINS, age 38 (b abt 1818 - TN). John and Rebecca seem to have children Drucilla, age 14, William, age 10, Nancy, age 7, Mary, age 5, and Margaret, age 2. ALL of the children are born in Missouri. As will be further shown, Rebecca seems to be John ROPER's daughter and the birthplace of the children seems to show that Rebecca arrived in Missouri by 1836. * * * A correspondent who is a descendant of this ROPER family, Curt WRIGHT, has furnished me with information transcribed from the Family Bible of John Henry ROPER (b 27 Jan 1819 - TN). The typewritten transcription shows that this Bible is "Now in possession of great grand daughter, Mrs. Irene Hubbard WALKER, of Mountain Grove, Missouri." The type appears to be from a manual or very early electric typewriter and the page is therefor probably at least several decades old. Irene HUBBARD (b 21 Aug 1898 - MO) was the daughter of James McBride HUBBARD and Ella GREEN and granddaughter of Thomas Jefferson GREEN and Mary Elizabeth ROPER, of Mountain Grove, Wright County, MO. Irene was married to Kenneth WALKER. She is shown to have died in 1977 and is interred at the Hillcrest Cemetery in Mountain Grove, Wright County, MO. I therefore believe that the typed transcription is at least 27 years old. As will be further shown, much of the secondary information floating around online seems to have at its origin genealogical work done by Mrs. Irene Hubbard WALKER during her lifetime. I do NOT have an image of the Bible page from which this transcription was taken. If anyone knows the present whereabouts of this family Bible, I would encourage you to contact the owner and encourage the owner to make a photocopy of the genealogical information to (a) share with other members of this branch of the ROPER family and (b) to make a copy available to the State Library and Archives of both Missouri and Tennessee! One secondary posting online suggests that this Bible might now be in the possession of Vickie DOOMS. I give below a complete transcription of precisely what appears in the typed transcription (EXCEPT that the information shown in square brackets was separately interlineated by hand): "Material copied from Bible of John Henry Roper (born 1819) Now in possession of great grand daughter, Mrs. Irene Hubbard Walker, Mountain Grove, Missouri. John Roper, born January 8, 1788--died October, 1863 Nancy Roper, born October 18, 1792--died April 5, 1845 Mary Roper, born March 11, 1810--Married November 21, 1830 [STEPHENSEN] Rebecca Roper, born February 6, 1812--Married November 19, 1831 [CUMMINS] Yewel Roper, born September 16, 1813--Married October 19, 1837 [POOL] William Roper, born November 16, 1816--Married November 23, 1854 [CHILDRESS] John H. Roper, born January 27, 1819--Married October 22, 1848 [LONG] Elizabeth Roper, born December 30, 1820--Married November 2, 1845 [RIPPEE] Sarah Roper, born March 22, 1823--Married December 25, 1845 [HARDIN] Nancy J. Roper, born March 8, 1825--Married September 5, 1848 [LONG] Margaret A. Roper, born January 17, 1827--Married January 23, 1849 Marthy G. Roper, born December 4, 1828 Telethe E. Roper, born October 27, 1830 Louisa C. Roper, born November 17, 1833--Married February 8, 1857 [TURNER] Rebecca Cummins died April 19, 1851 Elizabeth Rippee died May 1849 J. H. Roper and Nancy Irene Long married October 22, 1848 Mary Elizabeth Roper, born July 21, 1849--died November 21, 1869 William Beveridge Roper, born January 27, 1852--died March 29, 1881 Ella Green, born July 14, 1867 (Note: Nancy Jane Foster 1880?)" [This concludes the TYPED information] * In addition to the typed information, there is some additional information interlineated on the typed page both in pen and pencil, seemingly by a different hand. I believe that most of these interlineations are also reliable, though at least one piece of information appears to me to be erroneous, as further related in posts to follow. Interlineated after the word "born" following the names of John and Nancy Roper near the top of the page are the abbreviations "NC", seemingly to indicate that both John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788) and Nancy ROPER (b 18 Oct 1792) were born in North Carolina. To the right of both entries is the further indication in pen "Both Born NC." I believe that the indication that John ROPER was born in North Carolina is CORRECT, as it is confirmed by extant 1850 Census data. I believe that the indication that Nancy ROPER was born in North Carolina is probably erroneous for reasons further shown in a forthcoming post. Interlineated immediately below Nancy ROPER's name is the elaboration in pen in cursive writing "Nancy Agnes," as well as a separate indication in lighter ink, possibly photocopied with the original typed transcription "Maiden name unknown." To the left of Yewel ROPER's name is a single capital "P", the meaning of which is unclear. Similarly, there is a capital "P" preceding the name Marthy G. ROPER. Interlineated after the name William is the initial "M." Below and to the left of the name of Louisa C. ROPER and just before the name of Rebecca CUMMINS is the name "Telita," which I take to be a variation of the name "Telete" given in the name Telete E. ROPER. To the right of nine of the names printed in pencil in ALL CAPS are surnames of the person to whom children are married. The given names of the spouses are NOT provided in the transcription that came to me. These are the names shown in square brackets in the transcription above. As explained, this information was printed in by hand rather than typed. It is UNCLEAR whether this information appeared in the original Bible or was ascertained later by another researcher or the identity of that researcher. * * * Although I include the date of death purportedly taken from the Bible in the Subject of this thread, I do so with some reservation. Usually, a death date is a little more specific as to exact day and place of death. The absence of a place and failure to find either a grave or a probate record makes me a little uneasy. The date given of Oct 1863 should be treated with caution unless and until either a grave or probate record can be found. * * * Key unresolved issues for this John ROPER include the precise identity of his wife Nancy or Nancy Agnes, the precise locations John ROPER and his family resided prior to their arrival in Missouri, the correct identity of John ROPER's parents and the place of John ROPER's death and burial. I will discuss each of these issues in several follow up posts, but those with specific knowledge of this ROPER family are requested to share the factual information as well as analysis you have! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have previously discussed several of the weaknesses of the analysis ascribing members of the Maury, TN, ROPER family to William ROPER and Keziah YATES. I wanted to touch on other premises presented in your exposition which also appears to me to be faulty. You stated: "One William Roper had marital problems with his wife Polly, who was not faithful. He moved to Summer, TN in 1806. This is not the William Roper I will be concerned with. Another William Roper married an Elizabeth Brown on June 26, 1816 in Knox, TN. I am not concerned with this William Roper either. The William Roper that I will be concerned with will first show up in Davidson County, TN and then probably move to Maury, TN. Davidson County, TN was first formed in 1783. Williamson County was then formed out of the southern portions of Davidson County in 1799, Maury County was carved out of the south end of Williamson in 1807, and Giles County would be carved out of the southern end of Maury in 1809. William Roper first shows up residing in Davidson County, TN, while purchasing property on Flat Creek in Maury County, TN: "County Records: First Deed Book-Maury Co. 1807-18. p.62: 4 Dec 1809 Perry Coper (Cooper or Roper) of Maury Co., TN conveys 200 acres on Flat Creek to Wm. Roper of Davidson Co., TN " (L. David Roper database). A William Roper is still seen in the 1811 tax list of Davidson County, TN. Then on September 10, 1817, a William Roper conveyed property in Maury County, TN:" * More specifically, you stated "He moved to Summer, TN in 1806." Where did you get this "fact"? I am NOT aware of any specific evidence that the William ROPER who had marital problems moved to Sumner, TN, in 1806. IF you have looked at the underlying Divorce Petition and it SAYS THAT, this would be very interesting information. More likely, someone just MADE THIS UP. Perhaps William ROPER DID move to Sumner, Tennessee. IF SO, this would be apparent from an examination of the extant Tax Lists for Sumner County. While I have NOT examined the images of extant underlying Sumner, TN, Tax Lists myself, the posted transcriptions seem NOT to bear out the settlement of a William ROPER in Sumner, though my notes indicate that a William ROPER DID at least pass through Sumner in 1799. * You go on to state "Another William Roper married an Elizabeth Brown on June 26, 1816 in Knox, TN. I am not concerned with this William Roper either." I already showed in another post that this William ROPER may be the William ROPER (b abt 1774) who appears in the 1850 Census residing in Smith County, TN, and that this William ROPER MIGHT have been the William ROPER who was residing in Williamson County, TN, in 1820. * Later, you state "The William Roper that I will be concerned with will first show up in Davidson County, TN and then probably move to Maury, TN." After having dismissed the possibility that you are interested in the William ROPER who sought a divorce from Polly in October 1812, you then seem to simply ASSUME that the William ROPER, of Davidson, was NOT the William ROPER who sought a divorce (which William ROPER you have relocated to Sumner, TN). But even without looking at the actual divorce petition, which no one seems to have ever bothered to obtain, it seems VERY CLEAR that the William ROPER who sought a divorce from Polly was the VERY William ROPER who was residing in Nashville, Davidson County, TN, in the 1811 Tax Lists! This is clear from an examination of the Tax List itself! Have you ever actually looked at it or are you again relying on Dave's woefully deficient abstract?? I will confess that I have NOT gone back year by year to look at the extant 1789 or 1805 Tax List for Davidson County. But I have a reasonably high degree of confidence that when those Tax Lists are actually examined that William ROPER's name will NOT be on these lists because he FIRST ARRIVED in Davidson County in 1806 when he relocated there AS HE STATES IN HIS DIVORCE PETITION. * Now if William ROPER, of Davidson, TN, is the William ROPER who purchased land in Maury, TN, in 1809, then it is precisely the William ROPER who divorced Polly who is most directly connected to the Maury ROPERs, if only by the implication of proximity. Even so, I am NOT yet persuaded that the Maury ROPERs are directly related to William ROPER, of Nashville. Perhaps they are. The Tax Lists are very likely to tell us! * The problems with the analysis do NOT end there. Next, you have omitted the rather critical fact that the William ROPER shown in the Davidson Tax List also seems to be the William ROPER who is KNOWN to have DIED in 1814, as reflected in the death notice published in the Clarion and Tennessee State Gazette on Tuesday, March 1, 1814: "On Saturday last, William Roper, for some years a citizen of this town (Nashville)." This seems to reflect a death of William ROPER on Saturday, February 26, 1814. * For this reason, I believe that it is exceptionally UNLIKELY that either of the William ROPERs found in Williamson County OR in Maury County in the 1820 Census enumeration was the SAME William ROPER shown in the 1811 Tax List for Davidson, TN. Neither do I believe that the 1817 conveyance in Maury was executed posthumously by William ROPER, though it COULD have been executed by an executor or administrator of William ROPER, Deceased, of Davidson, TN. But instead of obtaining the DEEDS for Maury, which would clear this up, everyone wants to continue to rely upon the posted abstracts at Dave ROPER's site. * While there are only extant Tax Lists for Davidson for the years 1789, 1805, 1811, 1829, 1839, 1871-1873, 1881-1900, the extant Tax Lists for Maury County include 1808-1818, 1824-1826, 1830-1837. Wouldn't it make more sense to examine the actual Maury deeds and the Maury Tax Lists to see precisely WHEN each ROPER first appears and when various ROPERs also depart the County? In some instances, the first appearance on the Tax List will also give us a very good indication that a particular ROPER turned 21 that year! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I agree that the appearance of Allen YATES as a bondsman at the marriage of George ROPER and Agnes HARRIS is compelling evidence of a connection back to Caswell County, NC, and MORE persuasive than any speculative link to Dinwiddie based upon the subsequent appearance of Sally ROPER in Franklin, Williamson County. But I also believe that the early appearance of Benjamin MOORE in Franklin (a double grandson of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN) ought not to be completely discounted. * I also think that we must be cautious about the pervasiveness of the naming of sons George W. ROPER. To the extent that several of these ARE George "Washington" ROPERs, and I suspect that several, but NOT ALL so denominated by inventive ROPER family historians, are named for :George Washington, we must not discount either George WASHINGTON's prominence as commander-in-chief during the Revolution OR his role as President of the United States. I have been intending to post some additional discussion and analysis of the Revolutionary War service of both James ROPER, as well as George ROPER. But it is noteworthy that BOTH served in the Continental line. In fact, your post above implicitly recognizes the pervasiveness of recognition when you state "And David C. Roper, son of John Roper of Caswell, named a son "George W. Roper", as seen in the 1860 census of WASHINGTON, Dallas, MO." People were naming both sons and towns after the first President. My DOUBTS about "Washington" as a middle name for George ROPERs are most acute in respect of those born BEFORE the Declaration of Independence and WASHINGTON's appointment as Commander-In-Chief by the Continental Congress. Even though George WASHINGTON served with distinction during the French and Indian War, it seems to me that it is far LESS LIKELY that someone would have named a son after George WASHINGTON prior to 1776 UNLESS they had actually served or been personally acquainted with WASHINGTON. Thus, I believe that the ascription of "Washington" as the middle name of the Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER is completely specious and INVENTED by family historians that probably couldn't do better than a "C" in history. Similarly, I doubt that the George ROPER who married Rachel STOCKTON had a middle name of "Washington". A George W. ROPER named before 1776 would be more likely to be a George William ROPER by chance and the incidence of the given name in the ROPER family alone. "George Washington" as a given name no doubt first exploded after the American victory in the Revolution and reached new levels of use after WASHINGTON's inauguration as our first President in 1789. Naming of sons George Washington also probably rebounded in the year of WASHINGTON's death (1799). Once the name was introduced into a branch of the family, its recurrence, like the name "Andrew Jackson" is not altogether unsurprising. But trying to ascribe a person as fitting into a particular branch of the family based upon being named "George Washington ROPER" or "Andrew Jackson ROPER" is a bit more problematic. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, Your speculation on a possible reason for the census data to be in error is very imaginative and, at the same time, logical and compelling. I never understood how George W. Roper could live on land his whole life without actually owning it. Apparently, no one would want Roper's Knob. I think the appearance of an Allen Yates as bondsman for George Roper and Agness in Tennessee and as a neighbor of John Roper in Caswell, NC is compelling evidence of a connection. I don't know if you remember this. David Roper and Nancy Lewis, son of John Roper of Caswell NC, named a son "George W Roper". And David C. Roper, son of John Roper of Caswell, named a son "George W. Roper", as seen in the 1860 census of Washington, Dallas, MO. Also, Charles J Roper of Searcy, AR named a son "George W. Roper". So the name, including the initial "W", continued down the line. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Good Point! We have assembled and assessed quite a bit of information about both Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER and George W. ROPER, of Roper's Knob, very quickly and need to go back over all of this for consistency! We must also AVOID clinging to a tentative ascription which is unsupported by or inconsistent with the primary evidence. The anomaly in the data MAY indicate that any ascription of George W. ROPER as a son of John ROPER is simply ERRONEOUS. BEFORE we began discussing George W. ROPER within the context of our investigation of Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER, I was somewhat more inclined to suspect that this George W. ROPER might be from either the Dinwiddie, Virginia, ROPER family OR the family of one of the Virginia ROPERs who ended up in South Carolina. In my view, the better approach is to await the receipt of more PRIMARY DATA from the Tax Rolls before actually declaring a conclusive ascription. I think in just sorting through the extant information about George W. ROPER and identification and correct ascription of his children that we have advanced the genealogy. I do NOT know if you had noticed, but a misascription of the Todd County, KY, ROPERs as being descended from Tennessee ROPER has not only gained widespread acceptance, but made it into print in a History of Todd County, KY. * Accepting without insisting upon an ascription of George W. ROPER as the son of John ROPER, of Halifax, VA, I would have one further observation about a source of "error" as to the Census data. It is UNCLEAR to me whether you have actually looked at any of the photographs of or map data for Roper's Knob, Tennessee, but the terrain is stark and rather daunting, which is precisely WHY this location played a pivotal role in Tennessee Civil War battles near Nashville. The U.S. Geological Survey shows the summit of Roper's Knob to be 994 feet (303 meters): http://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/f?p=gnispq:3:::NO:3:P3_FID,P3_TITLE:1300056,Ropers Knob The contour interval on most of the USGS 1:24,000 maps is twenty feet. If one looks at the base contour of Roper's Knob, there are three additional contours BELOW the reference contour of 700 feet before one gets to the grade of Spencer Creek to the North or the town of Franklin to the West, putting Spencer Creek at about 640 feet. See: http://geonames.usgs.gov/apex/gazvector.getesrimap?p_lat=35.9378411&p_longi=-86.8425006&fid=1300056 The grade isn't that daunting from the 640 foot contour to the 700 foot contour, but in most directions the climb is VERY STEEP from 700 feet to the summit. By the most gradual approach, one traverses about a half a kilometer to climb from about 640 feet (195 meters) to 994 feet (303 meters), a vertical rise of 108 meters. Thus, the gradual approach is more than a 20% grade. But the less arduous portions have a lesser grade and portions of the journey have a greater incline. The total vertical distance traversed is about the equivalent of climbing to the top of the Statue of Liberty. There was probably NO SOURCE OR WATER at the summit and water probably had to be brought up from Spencer Creek or a well near the base. Imagine carrying sufficient water to the summit to hydrate a family on a daily basis! The summit seems to be an unlikely place to raise livestock, due simply to the logistical challenge of hydrating any large animals. The advantage of the location would have been exceptional views and would also be reasonably defensible to surprise Indian attack. As a practical place to live, the location seems to be rather wanting, except possibly for visual signaling, interesting in war, but probably not particular useful in peacetime commerce. My overall point in respect of the verity of the Census data is that if you were a Census enumerator, actually climbing to the summit would be something to be avoided! A better strategy would be to wait for a member of the family to come down to Spencer Creek to get water! Thus, the source of the Census information might very well be the member of the family consigned to water runs! The Census enumerator would have faced the choice of climbing to the summit for perhaps more reliable figures or accepting whatever report could be obtained without the climb. In my view, human nature suggests that the Census figures for Roper's Knob might be particularly unreliable! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, In April of this year, we discussed the 1800 Caswell, NC census record for John Roper in the following posting: [ROPER] 1800 Census Record for John ROPER (b bef 1756), of Caswell, NC Although the extant image of that census record is very difficult to decipher, I think your best reading of that data indicated the following male count: John Roper 1-0-3-0-1 This would indicate that John Roper was 45 , and that there was one male <10, and 3 males 16-25. If this is the correct interpretation, then the possible age range for George W. Roper of 1790-1792, which I calculated from his Williamson County, TN census data, would be in error. The one child who is <10 would by necessity have to be the youngest son John C. Roper, born about 1796 in Caswell, NC. That would leave three male sons 16-25: David Roper, b. abt. 1778, Henry Roper, b. abt. 1781-84, and George W. Roper. Thus, the 1800 census data would place George W. Roper's date of birth as no sooner than 1784. If he the married Agness Harris in 1806, he would have been 22 years old, a more likely marriage age than 14-16 years old. The only explanation I can think of to explain the discrepancy between the 1800 Caswell, NC census and the Williamson, TN census records is that apparently George W. Roper could not read or write and was incorrectly estimating his age in the Williamson County, TN census records. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Abbott, Walker, Fowler, Harris, Rogers, Ingram, Hough Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5.1.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I did a quick survey of the use of "Moody" as a given name in the United States prior to the birth of Moody ROPER, of Roper's Knob, and thought you might find the results to be interesting. "Moody" is an exceptionally unusual given name. It seemed to be slightly more common in the Northeast than the South, but there are still only a handful of "Moody"s before 1810. Of the handful of "Moody"s with Virginia roots, two stood out, BOTH from Halifax County, Virginia: Moody ABBOTT (b abt 1780 - VA) and Moody OWEN (b abt 1802 - VA). Another, William Moody WALKER (b abt 1809 - VA) migrated from Virginia to Henry County, TN. Of the North Carolinians with the given name "Moody", Moody FOWLER (b abt 1793 - NC), of Granville, NC, stands out. In the 1850 Census, he had a William HARRIS living in his household, raising the possibility that the FOWLER and HARRIS family might have been intermarried in generations prior to the marriage of George W. ROPER and Agnes HARRIS. There was also a Moody ROGERS (b abt 1772 - NC) in Wake County, NC, a Moody INGRAM (b abt 1786 - NC), of Richmond County, NC, and a Moody HOUGH (b abt 1800 - NC), of Anson County. * * * It occurred to me that the two "Moody"s from Halifax might suggest the possibility that John ROPER's wife might have been from a family where "Moody" was a given name. This might be a particularly compelling possibility if John ROPER's widow was residing at Roper's Knob after John ROPER's death. She might have suggested "Moody," a name of a father or brother. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In George W. ROPER's 1850 Census record, he is shown to be residing with a younger George W. ROPER, age 26 (b abt 1824), Mary ROPER, age 22, Moody L. ROPER, age 21, and Lutitia WILKERSON, age 29. George, Mary and Moody are shown to be born in Tennessee. Lutitia is shown to be born in Georgia. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC6Q-8KP : accessed 18 Apr 2014), George W Roper in household of George W Roper, Williamson county, Williamson, Tennessee, United States; citing family 831, NARA microfilm publication M432. * There is a George W. ROPER, age 49 (b abt 1821), enumerated with Lettitia ROPER, age 53, residing in Kirkmansville, Todd County, KY, in the 1870 Census. George is shown to be born in Tennessee and Lettitia ROPER is shown to be born in South Carolina. See: "United States Census, 1870," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11600-180361-49?cc=1438024 : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Kentucky > Todd > Kirkmansville > image 1 of 24; citing NARA microfilm publication M593. * This seems to be the same couple enumerated in Todd County, Kentucky in 1860. That year, George ROPER was shown to be age 37 (b abt 1823) and born in Tennessee, while Lettitia is shown only as "L. ROPER", age 45, born South Carolina. There are no children in this household. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZBC-HBW : accessed 18 Apr 2014), George Roper, , Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 112, household ID 789, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803396. * George and Lettitia ROPER seem to have been enumerated in the 1860 Census twice. There is a second record showing a "G. W. ROPER", age 37 (b abt 1823), and an "L ROPER", age 35, both shown to be born in Tennessee. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZBC-PMW : accessed 18 Apr 2014), L Roper in household of G W Roper, , Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 149, household ID 1048, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803396. Since this couple didn't seem to have any children, they are a bit of a genealogical dead end, but still increase the confidence of our ascription that Elizabeth Roper Sullivan HAGER, who also settled in Todd County, KY, was George W. ROPER's daughter. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Clark, Sullivan, Rager Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: With the additional information implicit in George W. ROPER's 1830 Census record, we see, as you noted that he had two younger females residing within his household, one age 10 to 14 and one 15 to 19. The eldest of these two would be of roughly marriageable age in 1830. Depending on her precise age, the younger daughter would seem to reach marriageable age about 1831 to 1838. There are only TWO female ROPER marriages during this interval: Mary ROPER married Moses CLARK on 18 Jun 1830 in Williamson, TN. Elizabeth ROPER married Caleb SULLIVAN on 19 Arp 1837 in Williamson, TN. * While it would seem to be a speculative ascription to identify either of these as daughters of George W. ROPER, absent a little more evidence, these marriages, combined with the absence of the two daughters in the 1840 Census enumeration would seem to be at least suggestive, if not conclusive of the relationship. With respect to the Elizabeth ROPER who married Caleb SULLIVAN, there is a little more evidence that makes ascription much more conclusive. There is a subsequent marriage of Elizabeth SULLIVAN to William L. RAGER on 23 Apr 1846 in Todd County, KY. See: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ky/county/todd/marriage/film367186.htm * * * Elizabeth RAGER is shown to be age 27 (b abt 1823) in the 1850 Census enumeration. She is shown to have a daughter named Moody Ann, age 8. (Indexed "HAGER" at FamilySearch.org) See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11826-93783-60?cc=1401638 : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Kentucky > Todd > Todd county > image 87 of 190; citing NARA microfilm publication M432. * The subsequent marriage record of Moody SULLIVAN to Jonathan COFFMAN in Oct 1855 in Todd, KY, reflects that Moody is actually a Sullivan rather than a RAGER. * In 1860, Elizabeth RAGER is shown to be age 38 (b abt 1822 - TN). She is shown as "E ROGAR" in the Family Search.org Index, residing with Wm RAGAR, age 37, and her family. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZBC-WJK : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Wm Ragar, , Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 105, household ID 743, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 803396. * Elizabeth RAGER is shown to be age 50 (b abt 1820) and born in Tennessee in the 1870 Census enumeration. "United States Census, 1870," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MX4Q-L2Z : accessed 18 Apr 2014), William Rager Or Roger, Kentucky, United States; citing p. 20, family 148, NARA microfilm publication M593, FHL microfilm 000545999. * In 1880, William and Elizabeth RAGER are both shown to be age 60. Elizabeth is shown to be born in Tennessee to parents BOTH BORN IN VIRGINIA. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MCZB-D4C : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Elisabeth Rager in household of William Rager, Kirkmansville, Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing sheet 217C, NARA microfilm publication T9. * Secondary sources report that the marriage of William RAGER to Molly WEST in 1887 reflects a subsequent marriage of William RAGER after Elizabeth's death. See: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ky/county/todd/marriage/film367186.htm * * * It is therefore interesting to find that Andrew Jackson ROPER is interred in a Methodist Cemetery, in Todd County, KY, also filled with members of the RAGER family. * * * In my view, the precise conformance of the genealogical information for Elizabeth RAGER to the detailed facts from George W. ROPER's 1830 Census records, her naming a child "Moody", the prior marriage of Caleb SULLIVAN to Elizabeth ROPER, her identification of Virginia as her parent's place of birth and close proximity to the place where Andrew Jackson ROPER also settled is all suggestive that Elizabeth Roper Sullivan RAGER was George W. ROPER's daughter. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Gabriel Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.6/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My notes show that amongst the holdings of the holdings of Western Kentucky University, there seem to be archives of Warren County, including Warrant County Marriage Bonds from 1808 (Box 3, Folder 5). Within this collection, there is apparently a marriage bond for the marriage of Jacob GABRIEL and Sarah ROPER. I have NOT seen an image of the underlying marriage bond. See: http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1586&context=dlsc_mss_fin_aid * * * Placement of George ROPER in Warren County, KY, at an early date is suggestive that the Sarah ROPER who married Jacob GABRIEL might be a sister or, more likely, a daughter of Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER. This is NOT an ascription, but rather a suggested avenue for further research and investigation. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Pritchet Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: There seems to be an extant Death Certificate in Todd County, Kentucky, reflecting the death of an Andrew Jackson ROPER, shown to be the son of Moody ROPER and Susan PRITCHET. In the 1900 Census enumeration, this Andrew Jackson ROPER is shown to be born in March 1858 in Illinois. He shows the birthplace of both parents as "Virginia". Enumerated within his household are daughters Myrtle, age 14, and Emma, age 11, each born in Kentucky. See: "United States Census, 1900," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9CS-NW5 : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Andrew J Roper, Magisterial District 4, Elkton (excl. Elkton city), Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing sheet 16A, family 291, NARA microfilm publication T623, FHL microfilm 1240552. This Andrew ROPER is also enumerated in Todd County, KY, in the 1930 and 1940 Census enumerations, giving his age as 72 in 1930 and 82 in 1940. In both 1930 and 1940, Andrew is shown to have been born in Tennessee to parents also born in Tennessee. In 1940, he is shown to reside within the household of his son Clyde ROPER, age 55, born in Kentucky. See: "United States Census, 1930," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XMFB-861 : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Andrew J Roper, Elkton, Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 0009, sheet 7A, family 157, NARA microfilm publication T626, roll 778. "United States Census, 1940," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K7BM-W94 : accessed 18 Apr 2014), Andrew Roper in household of Clyde Roper, Magisterial District 4, Todd, Kentucky, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 110-7, sheet 4A, family 78, NARA digital publication of T627, roll 1358. * A.J. ROPER is shown to have married E. E. WILLIS on 30 Nov 1880, in Todd County, KY. * * * This Andrew Jackson ROPER seems to possibly be a promising lead to locating Moody ROPER in the Census after 1850. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Harris, Scott Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In my prior post "George W. Roper and Roper's Knob," I called attention to the published accounts concerning the George W. ROPER family and Roper's Knob appearing within the article "Archaeological Investigations on Ropers Knob: A Fortified Civil War Site in Williamson County, Tennessee", by Benjamin C. NANCE, Tennessee Archeology, Vol. 2, No. 2, (Nashville: Tennessee Council for Professional Archeology, Fall 2006) pp. 83-106. Since that post, I have been carefully reviewing some of my other notes as well as extant primary source data. I am also indebted to Frank BATCHELOR for sharing his notes with me and in particular for calling my attention to the actual data shown in the 1840 Census enumeration. The Census data seems to call into question several of the statements and conclusions given in Benjamin NANCE's account of the ROPER family. To NANCE's credit, the focus of his article was on the archeological DIG at Roper's Knob and the information given about the ROPER family is to enrich our understanding of the historical background of the site of the dig. Nothing as to the errors noted below would seem to call into question the fundamental timeline as to the occupation and use of the site. For reference, I again extract a part of what I posted above to place the statements I now question into proper context: "Nicholas P. Perkins, a Franklin attorney, paid taxes in 1829 for one free person (himself) and three slaves (Williamson County Tax Records, 1829), and in the following year he paid taxes for five slaves and the 37-acre tract of land that he had purchased from McEwen (Williamson County Tax Records, 1830). Perkins died in 1833 and his heirs, James Perkins, John Perkins, and Ann Elizabeth Knox, began paying the taxes on the 37-acre tract, though none of them lived there (Williamson County Tax Records, 1837-1856). It is shortly after Nicholas Perkins's death that the Roper family shows up in local records. Historian Park Marshall wrote that Roper's Knob was named for a man named Roper who "lived a great many years on Roper's Knob, but he does not seemed to have owned the land" (Marshall 1970). George W. Roper paid a poll tax in Williamson County in 1833 (Williamson County Tax Records, 1833), and he appears on the 1840 Federal Census in the Eighth District (where Roper's Knob is located) with his wife, two sons, and one daughter (Federal Census, 1840, Williamson County, District 8). Roper's wife, Agnes, hanged herself in May 1840 (Lynch 1977:34). The 1850 Federal Census lists George W. Roper and his sons George Jr. and Moody as farmers without real estate. A daughter, Mary Roper, is also listed (Federal Census, 1850, Williamson County, District 8, No. 831). George and Moody also paid poll taxes in 1846, 1849, and 1850, but the Ropers disappear from the local records after 1850. They do not appear in the 1860 census records for Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, or Texas." * * * The first statement that seems dubious is the assertion "It is shortly after Nicholas Perkins's death that the Roper family shows up in local records." A George ROPER seems to have been on the Williamson County Tax List for 1810. A George W. ROPER is shown to have served in 2 Reg't (Cheatham's) West Tennessee Militia during the War of 1812 / Creek War. A George W. ROPER is shown to have given supporting testimony in favor if Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER's Pension Application in Williamson County in 1824. There are apparently extant Tax Lists for Williamson County for every year from 1800-1841, as well as additional lists for years 1844-1856. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that the Tax Lists show some GAPS or discontinuity in ROPER presence in Williamson, there seems to be NO EVIDENCE that Mr. NANCE consulted the abundant underlying records which seem to show a ROPER presence in Williamson County, though NOT necessarily at the Roper's Knob site, from at least 1810. I do NOT fault Mr. NANCE for failing to do a complete ROPER genealogy, but caution against drawing a conclusion that George W. ROPER first arrived at ROPER's Knob after Nicholas PERKINS' death. Similarly, when NANCE tells us "George W. Roper paid a poll tax in Williamson County in 1833 (Williamson County Tax Records, 1833)," we need to accept this fact as a reference to a SINGEL extant Tax List without making any inferences as to George ROPER's inclusion or omission from other lists. * The most serious error made by NANCE is in this assertion: "he [George ROPER] appears on the 1840 Federal Census in the Eighth District (where Roper's Knob is located) with his wife, two sons, and one daughter (Federal Census, 1840, Williamson County, District 8)." There are several problems with NANCE's statement immediately recognizable to any experienced genealogist. First, the 1840 Census does NOT give us either the NAMES or the relationships of the other householders. Thus, we CANNOT KNOW with certainty the relationships of ANY of the persons shown within the household. Admittedly, presence in a household is most often indicative of membership in the immediate family. But Frank BATCHELOR recently posted the actual 1840 Census record: George W. Roper 0 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Williamson, TN 1840] See: "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHYM-38G : accessed 18 Apr 2014), George W Roper, Not Stated, Williamson, Tennessee; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 138, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 537, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024550. * In this record George W. ROPER is shown to be age 40 to 49 (b abt 1791-1800). There are two males in this household shown to be age 15 to 19. This is reasonably consistent with the conclusion that these might be sons of George W. ROPER. But the ONLY female in the 1840 Census record is shown to be age 60 to 69 (b abt 1771-80). It is axiomatic that this female CANNOT possibly be George W. ROPER's DAUGHTER as indicated in Mr. NANCE's article. It seems MORE likely that this is George ROPER's widowed mother or mother-in-law! * NANCE makes a similar mistake in seeking to explain the 1850 Census data: "The 1850 Federal Census lists George W. Roper and his sons George Jr. and Moody as farmers without real estate. A daughter, Mary Roper, is also listed (Federal Census, 1850, Williamson County, District 8, No. 831)." Again, the 1850 Census does NOT give us the RELATIONSHIPS, so any assertions about the relationships of the persons named is conjectural absent some other actual primary data supporting the assertions outside of the Census record. The assertion that George ROPER Jr., age 26, and Moody L. ROPER, age 21, are sons is probably RIGHT. By contrast, the assertion that Mary ROPER, age 22 (b abt 1828), is a daughter seems questionable. Since there were no other females under age 60 in George W. ROPER's household in 1840, we must ASSUME that this Mary ROPER was living in another household IF she is George ROPER's daughter. Not only is this Mary ROPER's presence INCONSISTENT with the 1840 Census record, it is also inconsistent with the 1830 Census enumeration posted by Frank BATCHELOR: George W. Roper 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Williamson, TN 1830] Mary would have been about age 2 at the 1830 enumeration and therefore would have been include in the Under age 5 category in the 1830 Census enumeration if she was George W. ROPER's daughter. * There is also another clue that Mary ROPER is not George W. ROPER's daughter, though it is an inference drawn upon another inference. We are inclined to suspect that George ROPER married Agnes HARRIS in 1806. We might therefore expect there to have been children born in the period 1807-10. But the eldest children shown in the 1830 Census enumeration are shown to be in the age 15 to 19 (b abt 1811-5) range. But there is a marriage of a Mary ROPER to Moses CLARK on 18 Jun 1830 in Williamson, TN. George W. ROPER is the ONLY ROPER head of household enumerated in Williamson County, TN, in 1830, although Sally ROPER later turns up from Dinwiddie, VA. This, one non-trivial possibility is that Mary ROPER is a daughter of George W. ROPER and Agnes HARRIS born about 1807, who married at a very young age. Tracking Mary Roper CLARK forward should give us some better indication as to Mary ROPER's age at marriage and whether she could have been a daughter of Agnes ROPER. IF the Mary ROPER who married Moses CLARK is George W. ROPER's daughter, then it is highly unlikely that George ROPER had a second daughter named Mary ROPER, born about 1828 who was concealed from the Census enumerators in both the 1830 and 1840 Census. At a minimum, we must conclude that the data does NOT support the conjecture by NANCE that the Mary ROPER, age 22, enumerated in 1850 is a daughter of George W. ROPER. More likely, she is a wife of George W. ROPER, Jr., though there doesn't seem to be a marriage record which seems supportive. Instead, there is a slightly discordant marriage record showing the marriage in Williamson County of George W. ROPER to Nancy SCOTT on 05 Jul 1844. But there is no "Nancy" shown in the 1850 record. * * * I am posting this clarifying information both to immunize researchers against drawing erroneous conclusions from NANCE's otherwise excellent article on Roper's Knob and also to underscore the importance of careful examination of the underlying primary records. Even when someone tells you that THEY have inspected the record, VERIFICATION is still a good idea! I recall President REAGAN's admonition when asked if he trusted the Russians (in respect of a treaty): "Trust, but VERIFY!" 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Payne Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It is my understanding that George ROPER may be on a Fayette County, KY, Tax List for 1787. I have NOT seen images of this Tax List, but this bears checking out. * A posted compilation of the 1810 Tax List for Williamson County, TN, shows a George ROPER: See: http://www.usgwcensus.org/cenfiles/tn/williamson/1810/taxlist/index/qui-you.txt * It is my understanding that William ROPER appears on a Tax List for Davidson County, TN, in 1811. I have NOT seen this Tax List. * It is my understanding that a John ROPER and a David ROPER appear on the Tax List for Robertson County, TN, in 1812. I have NOT seen this Tax List. * George ROPER was the buyer at the Inventory Sale of Sarah PAYNE conducted on 15 Nov 1814. The Inventory Sale was returned at the January 1815 Court for Montgomery County, TN. The Montgomery County (Tenn.) Genealogical Journal, Vol. X, No. 2 (Dec. 1980), Page 40 http://www.tmcgj.com/issues/tmcgj_v10_02.pdf * * * The Fayette County, KY, Tax List mention from 1787 would seem likely to be Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER. It is UNCLEAR which George ROPER is mentioned in the other records cited, but these records seem to place a George ROPER in Williamson County from a very early date. * * * The means of obtaining some clarity as to the various ROPERs in early Tennessee is to examine the ANNUAL TAX LISTS in EACH PLACE they are known to have resided. ALL of the Deed records, rather than only published ABSTRACTS of deed records, also need to be examined in EACH PLACE that the ROPERs are known to have resided. This was ALWAYS the CORRECT WAY to advance the family history and the reason the family history has languished has been due to speculative ascriptions, guesswork or simply fraudulent ascriptions of various ancestors rather than doing the basic, tedious chore of CHECKING THE EXTANT RECORDS. * Extant Tax Lists exist for Davidson County, TN, for the following years: 1789, 1805, 1811, 1812, 1829, 1839, 1871-1873, 1881-1900. Extant Tax Lists exist for Maury County, TN, for the following years: 1808-1818, 1824-1826, 1830-1837, 1843, 1854, 1857, 1859-1862, 1865-1878, 1883-1890, 1892-1900. Extant Tax Lists exist for Robertson County, TN, for the following years: 1812, 1836, 1837, 1867-1872, 1877-1880, 1883, 1884. Extant Tax Lists exist for Smith County, TN, for the following years: 1837, 1838, 1860, 1866-1869, 1872, 1873, 1876-1879, 1885 . Extant Tax Lists exist for Sumner County, TN, for the following years: 1787-1844, 1856, 1861, 1862, 1865-1870, 1891. Extant Tax Lists exist for Williamson County, TN, for the following years: 1800-1841, 1844-1856, 1859-1861, 1866, 1871, 1873-1900. Most of these Tax Lists are on MICROFILM and HAVE NEVER BEEN TRANSCRIBED. * As can be seen, there is NO REASON for there to be ANY DOUBT about the presence of various taxpayers in Williamson County, since a Tax List is available for Williamson County for EVERY YEAR from 1800 to 1841. Similarly, the extant Tax Lists for Maury County should give great clarity as to the presence of various ROPER ancestors. It is disgraceful that researchers have continued to INVENT various relationships and to publish their fraudulent lineages despite this abundance of data which could give an extremely rich and detailed understanding of precisely when various children reached majority, when ROPER ancestors arrived at or departed from each place, etc. I just find it dismaying that so many continue to cling to fraudulent ascriptions and refuse to do even the simplest of research when the records are KNOWN TO EXIST and it is a simple matter of looking up these records on microfilm at a Library (through interlibrary loan) or LDS Family History Center. * * * As I have repeatedly mentioned, there are extant Tax Lists for almost EVERY Virginia County ANNUALLY from 1782 to 1850, which lists give great clarity as to the presence of various ROPER ancestors. Similarly, there are extant Tax Lists for many North Carolina counties which have never been inspected. * * * I would be deeply embarrassed if I had a published lineage containing fraudulent representations and would be eager to clear the stain on the family name created by those dishonest family historians who continue to repost and republish the discredited, specious garbage that now passes for family history! Surely some of those who have relied on the fraudulent lineages can turn over a new leaf, come forward and assist in the effort to correct all the misinformation! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I feel somewhat like Alfred Russell Wallace, who came up with the theory of evolution and then did not publish it, allowing Charles Darwin to take credit for the theory. Yes, I agree that the most likely candidate for the father of George Washington Roper is John Roper of Halifax, VA. I came to that conclusion yesterday after you wrote me about George Washington Roper being in the Pension application of George Washington of Jefferson, IL. However, I decided to wait until this morning to post my thoughts. So much for history! Nevertheless, just as Wallace did for Darwin, I congratulate you on your theory. The following is what I intended to publish this morning. After posting my article on "George Roper, b. 1762-65, NC; d. aft. 1840, Jefferson County, IL", William Alexander Roper, Jr. replied that I had managed to "gloss over George W. ROPER, of Williamson, who is shown to have supported George ROPER's Pension Application. Actually, I completely missed the reference to George W. Roper. Now that it has been drawn to my attention, I have some thoughts on who the parents of George W. Roper might have been. It is possible that John Roper, b. bef. 1756, of Halifax, VA, who later moved to Caswell, NC in 1797, is the father of George W. Roper of Williamson County, TN. I first want to reexamine the Williamson County, TN census records as found in the images on Ancestry.com that George W. Roper appeared in. 1830 Williamson County, TN census: George W. Roper 0-2-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-0-1-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 George W. Roper is shown age 40-49 and his presumed wife age 30-39. They have two males 5-9, one male 15-19, one female 10-14, and one female 15-19. 1840 Williamson County, TN census: George W. Roper 0-0-0-2-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0 George W. Roper is shown age 40-49, but the female is shown 60-69, and does not appear to be his wife. There are two males age 15-19, and no other female in the house. The reason the wife is not present is because she probably committed suicide, which will be explained below. 1850 Williamson County, TN census: George W. Roper, Sr. Age 58 Born abt. 1792 in Virginia. Cannot read or write. George W. Roper, Jr. Age 26 Born abt. 1824 in Tennessee. Mary Roper Age 22 Born abt. 1828 in Tennessee. Moody J. Roper Age 21 Born abt. 1829 in Tennessee. Lutitia Wilkerson Age 29 Born abt. 1821 in Georgia. The most interesting fact in this 1850 census is that George W. Roper, Sr. was apparently born in Virginia. Another interesting fact in the 1850 census is that there is a column which asks "Value of Real Estate Owned". Although other persons in the census list dollar amounts for the value of their property, neither Georges W. Roper, Sr. nor George W. Roper, Jr. show a value for any property owned, indicating they owned no property. The census records give different age ranges George W. Roper, Sr. He says he was born abt. 1792 in the 1850 census. The 1840 census would give him an age range of 1791-1800. The 1830 census gives him as age range of 1781-1790. Thus, his actual date of birth could be 1790-1792. I can find no census records for either George W. Roper, Sr. or George W. Roper, Jr. after 1850. There is an article titled "ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS ON ROPER'S KNOB: A FORTIFIED CIVIL WAR SITE IN WILLIAMSON COUNTY, TENNESSEE" published by Tennessee Archaeology, Vol. 2, Fall 2006, Number 2, which can be found on the Internet. George W. Roper is mentioned in the article as follows: "Historian Park Marshall wrote that Roper's knob was named for a man named Roper who "lived a great many years on Roper's Knob, but he does not seem to have owned the land" (Marshall 1970). George W. Roper paid a poll tax in Williamson County in 1833 (Williamson County Tax Records, 1833), and he appears on the 1840 Federal Census in the Eighth District (where Roper's Knob is located) with his wife, two sons, and one daughter (Federal Census, 1840, Williamson County, District 8). Roper's wife, Agnes, hanged herself in May 1840 (Lynch 1977:34). The 1850 Federal Census lists George W. Roper and his sons George Jr. and Moody as farmers without real estate. A daughter, Mary Roper, is also listed (Federal Census, 1850, Williamson County, District 8, No. 831). George and Moody also paid poll taxes in 1846, 1849, and 1850, but the Ropers disappear from the local records after 1850. They do not appear in the 1860 census records for Tennessee, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, or Texas." Lynch, Louise Gillespie 1977 Miscellaneous Records of Williamson County, Volume 1. Published by the author. Marshall, Park 1970 Collection of Writings by Park Marshall. Tennessee State Library and Archives, Nashville. As can be seen from this quoted excerpt, George W. Roper's wife's first name appears to be "Agnes". There is a transcription of marriage records from the original records of Davidson County, TN which can be found at "Friends of Metropolitan Archives of Nashville and Davidson County, TN", which has the following record: "Roper George Agness Harris 10/13/1806 Allen Yates 58" Notice that Allen Yates is listed as the bondsman. There appears to be a connection between John Roper, b. bef. 1756, of Halifax County, VA, who later moved to Caswell County, NC in 1797 where he purchased property, and Allen Yates. Allen Yates apparently owned property adjacent to John Roper and sold it to a Josiah Samuel in 1805: "O:119: Allen Yates to Josiah Samuel for 100 lbs 150 acres on Country Line Cr. adj. John Roper, Thomas Boulton, John Rogers, Craften Williams, Lewis Vaughan, William Rainey, Joseph Flipper, William Yates, excepting his interest in the mother's dower during her life and after her death (Caty Yates) his interest included in this sale. 25 Oct 1805 Wit: John Stanfield, Archd Samuel D. Richards." L. David Roper database. William Yates purchased land in Caswell, NC from John Roper in 1798. The appearance of William Yates and Allen Yates suggests a possible family connection between the two of them. After selling his property in Caswell, NC, in 1805, Allen Yates apparently appears in Tennessee in 1806 as the bondsman for George Roper and Agnes Harris. Allen Yates appears in Maury County, TN in the town of Columbia as the purchaser of land in about 1808, according to the "Maury County, Tennessee Wills and Settlements Book A Vol. 1 1807-1824", which can be found on the Internet. Allen Yates can again be seen as a bondsman for Sarah Dobson in the Archives of Nashville and Davidson County mentioned above: "Sarah DODSON, m 14 Aug 1809, Maury Co, TN, Amos CALDWELL, Allen C. YATES". John Roper can be seen residing between a John Caldwell and an Allen Caldwell in the 1782 Halifax, VA Personal Tax List. John Yates is also nearby. John Roper can also be seen residing near John Caldwell and Allen Caldwell in the 1885 Halifax County, VA tax list. (A James McNight is seen residing two properties away from John Roper in the 1782 Halifax County, VA tax list. Kizzie Roper, daughter of David Y. Roper and Dionysia Abernathy of Maury County, TN, married an Augustus J. McKnight.) A marriage date of 1806 is somewhat troubling for both George W. Roper and Agness Harris. The 1830 census shows George's wife to be 30-39, meaning she would have been born at the earliest in 1791, making her 15 years of age. Also, George W. Roper appears to be equally young, being born 1790-92, making him 14-16 years of age. However, it could have happened. But, considering everything, I agree with Bill's analysis that the best candidate for the father of George W. Roper is John Roper, b. bef. 1756, of Halifax County, VA. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I wanted to share one other quick thought with you about the length of acquaintance of George ROPER (b abt 1762-5) and George W. ROPER. I want to initially caution that I haven't gone back to VERIFY the text of the Pension Application against the original images, so I may be reading something into the transcription that is UNSUPPORTED by the actual deposition and sworn testimony before the Court. Dave ROPER's posted abstract includes this brief discussion about supporting testimony by George W. ROPER: "On this 22nd day of Decr. AD 1824 persons appeared before me Jeffr C Stewart a Justice of the Peace in and for the said Court George W. Roper & Laughson ?????? and ???????? that they have been well acquainted with the circumstances of George roper ??? for fourteen years and that at the time embraced by the statement in the above aforesaid wit as to the property of said George roper and said statement of property is just and true. Sampson Powell. Sworn to and subscribed before me on the day and date above written. Goe. W. X Roper (his mark)" First, it is interesting to wonder whether one of the witnesses was a LAWSON ("Laughson"). But George W. ROPER and the otherwise unidentified LAWSON or LAUGHSON are said to have known Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER (b abt 1762-5) for FOURTEEN (14) YEARS. Perhaps this length of acquaintance was ONLY intended to apply to LAWSON, but accepting at face value that George W. ROPER has only known the Revolutionary War Veteran for fourteen years would seem to preclude the possibility that George W. ROPER, of Williamson, is the War Veteran's SON. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that George ROPER (b abt 1762-5) is only DISTANTLY RELATED, that the younger George W. ROPER is making a supporting deposition in his favor seems more consistent with a CLOSER relationship. It seems to me that the most logical conclusion -- NOT an ascription, but rather simply analysis for discussion, further inquiry and research -- is that George W. ROPER is a younger nephew, cousin or even grandson. * Note that from your post, you seem to have shown that the Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER (b abt 1762-5) was already present in Kentucky where he served in the militia by 1793. By contrast, George W. ROPER seems to have been born in Virginia, possibly in 1792, but also perhaps more likely earlier, between 1781 to 1790. Accepting the latter range, George W. ROPER (b abt 1781-90) seems to be TOO OLD to be a grandson of the War Veteran. One of the interesting facts is that George ROPER's (b abt 1762-5) early migration to Kentucky might have created sufficient distance that he might not have met one or more of his nephews until they were adults. * While we do NOT have great clarity as to ALL of the male ROPERs who might have emerged from Halifax, VA, and Caswell, NC, and this cannot be known until the Tax Lists for EVERY YEAR are examined, we DO have reason to suspect that Caswell might have produced John ROPER (b bef 1756), David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC), William ROPER (b bef 1759), James ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY), and George ROPER (b abt 1762-5), as well as sons of John ROPER, to include David ROPER and Henry ROPER. WILLIAM ROPER (b bef 1759) UNLIKE David Y. ROPER and Tennessee ROPER, George W. ROPER (b abt 1781-90) actually seems to have been born during an interval that might make it plausible that we could have been a son of William ROPER (b bef 1759), who married Keziah YATES in 1781. There is one problem with such an ascription. George W. ROPER (b abt 1781-90) is shown in the 1850 Census to have been born in Virginia rather than North Carolina. The ONLY Tax record anyone has bothered to look up for Caswell is the 1790 Tax Record putting William ROPER in Caswell, NC, by that date. Similarly, William ROPER (b bef 1759) is shown to have owned land in Caswell and he married Keziah in Caswell. There is NO REASON to suspect that he and Keziah had any children born in Virginia. DAVID ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC) We have had a bit of a disagreement about the identity and household size of Revolutionary War Veteran David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC). I believe that he was the David ROPER Jr. shown in Rutherford, that he married late and had a small family. But whether we believe that Rev. David ROPER or David ROPER Jr. was the War Veteran, EACH are shown to have only a single male child in 1790. If George W. ROPER (b abt 1781-90) is a son of David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC), he seems to be the ONLY son born before 1790. But this construction also suffers from the problem that there seems to be NO EVIDENCE that this David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC) lived in Virginia. JAMES ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) James ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY) is believed to have arrived in Logan County, KY, about 1806. If George W. ROPER was a son of this James ROPER, he might have met the UNCLE for whom he was named for the first time about 1806, about the year he seems to have married Agnes HARRIS, some EIGHTEEN (18) years earlier. The trouble with ascribing George W. ROPER (b abt 1781-90) as a son of James ROPER is that he seems to be TOO OLD to be consistent with the 1800 Census data and a possible prior marriage to the unnamed daughter of William LEA. I think it is most likely that James ROPER had precisely TWO children prior to 1790: William ROPER and Sarah ROPER, William LEA's grandchildren. In my view, George W. ROPER is TOO OLD to be a son of James ROPER (b abt 1756-60, d 18 Nov 1835 - Simpson, KY). JOHN ROPER (b bef 1756) This seems to mostly eliminate ALL of the other candidate EXCEPT FOR John ROPER (b bef 1756), who has been the central focus of your study. This John ROPER may have been the eldest of the group emerging from Halifax, VA / Caswell, VA, IF he is a brother of the others at all. (He very well may be a cousin or related in some other way.) He is thus OLD enough to be George W. ROPER's father. John ROPER (b bef 1756) also seems to have resided in Virginia at the time we believe that George W. ROPER was born. As I understand your current ascriptions, you believe that David ROPER, of Rhea, TN, and Henry ROPER, of Caswell, NC, are sons of John ROPER (b bef 1756). I understand that you also believe that John C. ROPER, of Cumberland, NC, might also be a son, a conclusion of which I am less confident (I suspect that John C. ROPER might be a grandson). If the 1800 Census record I found is that of John ROPER (b bef 1756), then we believe that this John ROPER (b bef 1756) had THREE males age 16 to 25 (b abt 1775-84) residing in his household in 1800. It is my impression that you believe that two of these are David and Henry. John ROPER: 0 - 0 - 3 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Caswell, NC 1800] * In 1810, we have this Census data for John ROPER (b bef 1756): John ROPER: 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - ? [Caswell, NC 1810] ALL of the males age 16 to 25 have LEFT the John ROPER (b bef 1756) household. You believe that the remaining male, age 10 to 15 is likely to be John C Roper (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO). * In 1820, John ROPER (b bef 1756) arrives in Cumberland without ANY males residing in his household, although John ROPER, Jr. [John C. ROPER] is in the adjacent Census record: John Roper, Sr.: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Cumberland, KY 1820] Finally, I would note that John ROPER (b bef 1756) pulled out of Caswell sometime after about 1810. Perhaps he lingered to marry off his daughters. But it seems quite likely that he might look up brothers James ROPER and George ROPER after arriving in Kentucky. Even if several sons moved to Kentucky in advance of their father, they might not have met their uncle George ROPER right away. But the home of brothers James or George OR the home of son David might be a first place to land upon arrival in Kentucky. This might have precipitated a meeting of War Veteran George ROPER and George W. ROPER. Coincidentally, the period from 1810, when John ROPER (b bef 1756) is LAST enumerated in the Caswell, NC, Census and the date of George ROPER's Pension Application is precisely FOURTEEN YEARS. * What is your view as to the identity of the third young man born abt 1775-84 shown to be residing in John ROPER's household in 1800? * * * While I do NOT believe that the analysis above supports an ascription, it seems to me that the single best candidate to be George W. ROPER's father would be John ROPER (b bef 1756). Otherwise, it seems most likely that he is NOT as closely related to the Caswell ROPERs. I have previously noted both the prior arrival of Benjamin MOORE in Williamson, as well as the subsequent arrival of Sally ROPER, of Dinwiddie. Do you think George W. ROPER is from the Halifax/Caswell ROPER branch or is he from Dinwiddie or another place in Virginia? 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Harris Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I also wanted to share a quick note about the George ROPER -- Agnes HARRIS marriage. There is an extant marriage record showing the marriage of George ROPER to Agnes HARRIS on 13 Aug 1806 in Davidson County, TN. See: "Tennessee, County Marriages, 1790-1950," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12587-67736-0?cc=1619127 : accessed 16 Apr 2014), 004486009 > image 241 of 300. For indications that this is a Davidson Marriage Book, seem Images 299, 297 and 2. [Curiously, the Images in this file seem to have been microfilmed in the book from back to front.] * * * Seemingly, without any thought or analysis, careless or dishonest researchers seem to have ascribed this marriage to Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER. Perhaps there is some primary evidence in support of this ascription, but I seriously doubt it. The mention that the wife of George ROPER, of Roper's Knob, was an Agnes ROPER, within the article "", seems to be more suggestive that the indicated marriage was to the George W. ROPER later found at Roper's Knob. What are the odds that two different contemporaneous George ROPERs in Tennessee had wives named "Agnes"? There is at least one problem with such an ascription, though, and this is the fact that George ROPER, of Williamson County, in 1850, is shown to be age 58 (b abt 1792) and born in Virginia. See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC6Q-8KG : accessed 17 Apr 2014), George W Roper, Williamson county, Williamson, Tennessee, United States; citing family 831, NARA microfilm publication M432. If George W. ROPER's age in the 1850 Census record is actually correct and he is the George ROPER shown in the Davidson County marriage record from 1806, then he would have married at about age fourteen. This seems to me to be a bit on the young side to marry, even in those times. However, my records show that the 1850 Census record is NOT consistent with the data from 1830: George W. ROPER: 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 7 [Williamson, TN 1830] This record shows George W. ROPER to be age 40 to 49 and born about 1781-1790. I do NOT seem to have the 1840 Census data for George W. ROPER amongst my notes. If the 1840 data is consistent with the 1830 data and inconsistent with the 1850 data, showing George W. ROPER to be a little older, I am inclined to believe that the Agnes HARRIS who married George ROPER married the George W. ROPER, later found resident in Williamson County at ROPER's Knob. The resolution of this record may actually be rather important in respect of some other aspects of Tennessee ROPER genealogy. The 1806 marriage puts this George W. ROPER in Tennessee at a very early date and well before his first appearance in neighboring Williamson County. This George W. ROPER's indicated Virginia birth is also interesting. Given the wealth of abundant primary data which remains unexamined in Tennessee, it is such a tragedy that dishonest researchers have made the various false ascriptions without making any effort whatsoever to examine the records which would give the correct answer! If you have the 1840 data for George W. ROPER, I would be very interested in learning of what the household age counts actually show. Also, some more trustworthy secondary sources assert that this George W. ROPER died in Todd County, Kentucky, in 1858. The primary evidence in support of this assertion is unknown to me, but an examination of land records and probate records in Todd County, KY, would seem to be indicated. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1718.6/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It should be expressly noted that some careless or dishonest researchers have ascribed a "Charles David ROPER" as a son of Revolutionary War Veteran James ROPER (b abt 1761-2, d 1833 - Richmond, NC). >From the extant Court files, it is CLEAR that this ascription is at best erroneous and perhaps fraudulent. Many dishonestly ascribing this purported Charles David ROPER have affixed a FALSE MIDDLE NAME ("David") to Charles ROPER, of Stewart, TN. There seems to be NO EVIDENCE that this Charles ROPER EVER went be the name "David". Addition of this middle name was probably used as a pretext to falsely ascribe genealogical data from one of the several David ROPERs to this ancestor. Honest researchers will REMOVE "David" from the name of Charles ROPER, of Stewart, TN, and will DISCONNECT this Charles ROPER from the family of James ROPER (b abt 1761-2, d 1833 - Richmond, NC), of Richmond, NC. Those who have falsely used this ascription to support applications to Revolutionary War hereditary societies should notify the Society of the "error" and make a new application (if possible) based upon honest representations! As discussed in another post, Charles ROPER, of Stewart, TN, is almost certainly the son of Ann ROPER, of Northampton, NC. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1718.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In posting my notes relating to James ROPER (d 1833 - Richmond County, NC) two years ago, I neglected to pull in my notes from the Revolutionary War Pension Applications. This SAME James ROPER is the James ROPER who made an appearance before the Richmond County, NC, Court on 20 Jul 1832, where he made a sworn declaration in support of his Revolutionary War Pension Application (No. S7413). This James ROPER swore that he was age 70 at the date of his application (b abt 1761-2). James ROPER further stated: "That he enlisted in the Army of the United States in May 1777 and served in the 2nd Battalion of the North Carolina line under officers whose names & ranks he thinks were as follows viz., Craddock [John Craddock] Captain, H. Murfree [Hardy Murfree] Major and Patton [sic, John Patten] Colonel that he resided in the County of Northampton North Carolina at the time he entered the service that he marched to Alexandria and after some delay at that place occasioned by the smallpox he proceeded to or near Valley Forge where he joined General Washington's Army & passed the winter that in the succeeding spring he marched towards New Jersey and was at the Battle of Monmouth that sometime afterwards he marched to Charleston South Carolina passing through Wilmington North Carolina and was discharged in November 1780 which discharge he now has in his Possession" This information appears in the able transcription of Will GRAVES posted at: http://revwarapps.org/s7413.pdf Will GRAVES also notes that some of the application materials for James ROPER, of Simpson, KY, appear within the files of James ROPER, of Richmond, NC, showing that confusion of these two Veterans is of ancient rather than recent origin. Serious researchers should review ALL of the images in BOTH FILES to be assured as to the contents. * * * The death of James ROPER in 1833 may have prematurely truncated the application process. * * * In my original post, I showed four separate bases for ascription of James ROPER's year of birth making inferences from the Census records: (b abt 1766-74) [1800] (b bef 1766) [1810] (b bef 1776) [1820] (b abt 1761-70) [1830] I then gave this analysis of the possible inferences to be drawn from the Census data: "If all four of these were correct, we could infer that this James ROPER was born in 1766. If the 1800 age range was erroneous, but the others reliable, we would have b abt 1761-6. If the 1810 age range was erroneous, but the others reliable, we would have b abt 1766-70. If the 1800 and 1810 age ranges are correct then the year would seem to be rather precisely 1766, leaving aside an error based upon the time of year the enumeration was taken and james' precise birthday. 1766 is most likely with the range 1761 to 1770 seemingly giving a high probability of accuracy." * However, upon review, it is clear that the analysis given is ERRONEOUS because I made a MATH error in respect of the 1800 implicit years of birth. That year, James ROPER was shown to be age 26 to 44 which I asserted implied "b abt 1766-74". But the CORRECT age range for a person age 26 to 44 would have been "b abt 1746-74". Thus, the CORRECT ranges would be: (b abt 1756-74) [1800] (b bef 1766) [1810] (b bef 1776) [1820] (b abt 1761-70) [1830] NONE of these Census returns is INCONSISTENT or ANOMOLOUS and if ALL the information is CORRECT, we are given an age range of 1761-5. Since James ROPER's deposition at the Richmond Court reflects that he is age 70 (b abt 1761-2) in 1832, 1762 MUST be taken as the best estimate of his year of birth (recognizing some variability based upon possibility that he might still turn age 71 sometime after 20 Jul 1832). In my view, the sworn testimony by this James ROPER before the Richmond County, NC, Court in 1832 as to his age (70) should be treated as conclusive, absent some strong contrary evidence. In this instance, the Census data is completely consistent, putting to bed any serious doubts. * * * I also noted that "There are James ROPERs in Caswell, Burke and Northampton Counties in 1790." It seems to be conclusively established that James ROPER, of Caswell, NC, was the Revolutionary War Veteran who migrated to Simpson, KY. The Pension Application of James ROPER, of Richmond, NC, rather conclusively shows that this James ROPER previously resided in Northampton County, NC. Thus, we should ascribe the 1790 Census record for James ROPER, of Northampton County, NC, to this James ROPER. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Amongst my unposted notes, I realize that I also show that BOTH George ROPER, Sr., and George ROPER, Jr., are shown to be enumerated within the 1818 Illinois State Census. The information from this Census is very sparse, but it rather clearly places two George ROPERs, one older, one younger, in adjacent Census records in 1818: George ROPER, Senr.: 1 - 4 - 0 - 0 - 5 George ROPER, Junr.: 1 - 5 - 0 - 0 - 6 The first figure is for Free White Males, 21 Years and Upwards The second figure is for All Other White Inhabitants The third figure is for Free Persons of Color The fourth figure is for Servants or Slaves The fifth figure is for Total Number of persons * Thus, we see within the elder George ROPER's household only ONE male age 21 or more, presumably George ROPER, Senior. There are a total of only FOUR other White persons in this household. If George ROPER's wife was then living, this is suggestive of THREE children, one, presumably David C. ROPER. The adjacency of George ROPER, Junior's household would seem to suggest a close relationship. However, if the information on the grave markers furnished by Frances Roper GOLIGHTLY is correct (and I do NOT mean to impugn Frances' relation of the date, but rather only the possibility that those who erected the grave markers could have been mistaken), it seems implausible that the younger George ROPER could be the elder George ROPER's son. However, we also need to recognize that the information on the grave markers seems to be inconsistent with that shown in the Census enumerations. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>