This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Loving, Rutledge, Edelman Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Overall, I want to commend you for a very thoughtful and insightful post discussing the RUTLEDGE and EDELMAN connections. I will discuss some of the more important possible implications in another post. But I wanted to at least post one cautionary note as to the identity of the "T. ROPER" shown in the LOVING Will. You stated: > I previously speculated that the T. Roper might be Tennessee Roper of Maury County. > The only Roper whose first name starts with a "T" in the 1820 and 1830 Maury County > census records is Tennessee Roper. While I agree with your assertion that Tennessee ROPER (b 02 Jul 1798) is the ONLY known adult "T. ROPER found in Maury in 1820 and 1830, I would also remind you that Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC) was in immediately adjacent Hickman County, TN, in 1820. This is the Thomas ROPER we believe later settled in Clinton County, Illinois. It is important to bear in mind that since Maury and Hickman Counties are immediately adjacent, identifying locations of ROPERs and LOVINGs in these counties is rather critical. However, NO ONE seems to be willing to take the time to actually inspect the Maury and Hickman DEED RECORDS and instead they continue to rely solely on a few abstracts of Maury deed records, which are inherently INCOMPLETE. * One location in Maury where the ROPERs seemed to have owned land was on Flat Creek. Flat Creek is a tributary of the Duck River, flowing into the Duck River from the north. Flat Creek joins Duck River about twenty miles almost due South of the Town of Franklin (Williamson County) where George W. ROPER later settled at Roper's Knob, and about nine miles east of the town of Columbia. Flat Creek is to the East of Interstate 65, which runs North-South into Nashville. Flat Creek flows into Duck River between I-65 and U.S. 431 just South of U.S. 412 (Tennessee State Highway 99). This is very near the Eastern boundary of Maury County, adjacent to Marshall County. The headwaters of Flat Creek are in Williamson County near U.S. 31A. Flat Creek flows Southerly and Westerly from Williamson, through the Northwest corner of Marshall County and into Maury County before flowing into Duck River. * Another ROPER location near Maury is the property shown to be on Lick Creek, in Williamson County, identified in a deed dated 19 Apr 1817 and recorded 15 June 1817. I mention this deed because if one looks at a map, it turns out that while the headwaters of Lick Creek are in Williamson County, this creek then flows through the Northwest corner of Maury County in Hickman County. Lick Creek is a tributary of the Duck River, like Flat Creek, flowing into Duck River from the North. Lick Creek is to the North and West of the Natchez Trace. This ROPER property was about fifteen miles to the North of Columbia (Maury Co.) and about twelve miles Southwest of Franklin (Williamson Co.). * Another location where the ROPERs seem to have owned property in Maury is at "Big Tombigby Creek." Abstracts of Chancery records seem to show that in 1824 there was some correction to a deed of conveyance from William ROPER to William LOVING on the East Fork of Big Tombigby Creek. This conveyance seems to be dated 10 Sep 1817, based upon the abstract, but I am not confident that this is correct unless and until someone looks at the underlying record. As far as I can tell, no one has sufficient interest in this ROPER family to pull that actual deed records OR the Chancery records. Everyone seems to want to make speculative ascriptions based upon the incomplete abstract. "Big Tombigby Creek" seems to be the stream now known as Big Bigby Creek. Big Bigby is a tributary of the Duck River, which creek flows generally South to North, flowing into the Duck River near Southall Road to the South Southwest of Williamsport and to the South and East of the Natchez Trace Parkway. Big Bigby Creek flows past the town of Mount Pleasant. You will see a Rickett's Mill Road to the West of Mount Pleasant, probably a clue that a RICKETTS family had a mill near there at one time. The headwaters of Big Bigby Creek are near the Maury County - Lawrence County line. That you cite a Will record of William LOVING is suggestive that the "T. ROPER" might be more likely to live near Big Bigby (Big Tombigby) Creek rather than at or near Flat Creek. * Since no one has bothered to locate the ROPER properties on Flat Creek or Big Tombigby Creek (below), it is difficult to say with precision how close these two properties were to the property on Lick Creek. We have the best description of the Lick Creek property. The Lick Creek property was probably about eighteen to nineteen miles away. While this seems to suggest a precise location as to the Flat Creek property, the narrowness in distance reflects NOT that the location is precisely known, but rather than Flat Creek flows in a direction such that along its length, the distance to the ROPER property on Lick Creek is about the same (as the crow flies). The distance between the ROPER properties on Lick Creek and the property on Big Tombigby (Big Bigby) Creek is much less clear, since Big Bigby Creek begins near the Lawrence County Line and flows North. These properties may have been separated by fifteen to thirty miles, depending upon precisely where the property was located on Big Bigby Creek. * We also do NOT know the location of any land owned by Thomas ROPER, of Hickman, because no one is interested enough to check the actual land records in Hickman County. Intuition suggests that he might have drifted over the county line from the Lick Creek location, but this is really speculation based upon incomplete data. * While it seems to me that the KNOWN records seem suggestive that William LOVING was at or near Big Bigby Creek and it is MORE LIKELY that Tennessee ROPER might be the "T. ROPER" shown in the records, this is something that could really be pinned down simply by doing the basic genealogical research of identifying and transcribing ALL of the extant deed records in Maury County. People continue to make wild, speculative and unsupported ascriptions because they are TOO LAZY to pull the readily accessible deed records. When someone bothers to actually CHECK, we are likely to find that there is rich extant evidence which shows how many of these Tennessee ROPERs are related. But no one dares to look because the results will PROVE the fraudulent nature of their own invented lineages! I suspect that the speculative ascription of Tennessee ROPER as the "T. ROPER" in the records is probably RIGHT in this particular case, however we cannot really exclude the non-trivial possibility that it might instead be Thomas ROPER because no one will do the research. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.1.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I previously mentioned these two entries in the L David Roper data base: "Maury Co. Court Minutes: Will of William Loving, Sr. 3 Feb 1826. Wit: William X Roper Settlement with William Rutledge, adm. of John Edleman, decd, 22 Feb 1826 ... T. Roper" I discussed the first entry of the Court Minutes dealing with the Will of William Loving. The second entry which shows "Settlement with William Rutledge, adm. of John Edleman, decd, 22 Feb 1826...T.Roper" also has circumstantial links to John Roper of Halifax, VA. I have never been able to find the actual image of the Court Minutes and I have never been able to find another copy of this abstract. I previously speculated that the T. Roper might be Tennessee Roper of Maury County. The only Roper whose first name starts with a "T" in the 1820 and 1830 Maury County census records is Tennessee Roper. Both Tennessee Roper and David Y. Roper can be seen on page 2 of the 1820 Maury County, TN census, along with William Loving. On the previous page 3, one can find "John Eddleman", age 45 , with a wife age 45 . There are eleven other members in the household. William Rutledge is shown as the administrator of the estate of John Edleman, deceased 22 Feb 1826. William Rutledge can be found on page 10 of the 1820 Maury County, TN census, age 45 . The Rutledge family has a historical connection with the Caldwell family, and both families have had a close connection with John Roper, b. bef. 1756, of Halifax County, VA, Caswell County, NC, and Cumberland County, KY. John Rutledge, born September 29, 1711 in Bucks County, PA, married Eleanor Jane Caldwell of PA. Among the sons of John Rutledge and Eleanor Jane Caldwell were at least two who had connections to the Roper family: Isaac Rutledge, b. abt 1737, d. ca. 1770, Rowan County, NC, and Joseph Rutledge, b. abt. 1749, d. abt. 1833, Cumberland County, KY. Isaac Rutledge died ca. 1770 in Rowan County, NC without a will. He apparently had at least two minor male children, James Rutledge and William Rutledge, who will be discussed below. There is an abstract of a marriage bond in Rowan County, NC which shows a marriage between a Jane Rutledge and a John Turnbull on March 5, 1772. Jane Rutledge appears to be the widow of Isaac Rutledge. John Rutledge, b. 1711, Bucks County, PA, father of Isaac, died sometime before August of 1775 and did leave a Will, which I will quote in part, and guardianship bonds were issued in Rowan County for the two minor children, as seen from the following abstracts (I cannot find the original images of the Will or probate records): "Will abstract of John Rutledge Rowan County, North Carolina, Book A, pg 196 Date of Document: 12/Sept? 1774- date recorded: 1774 I bequeath to wife Elenor, one roan mare and 4 lbs money due from Robert Dodson...2). Bequeath to son John Rutledge, the land and improvement hereon i now live and provided he will the sum of money i am endebted to Isaac Rutledge's children now living with John Turnbull when the same is recoverable by law and if not the said land and improvements to be sold and the before mentioned orphans money to be paid out of the price of it and the overplus i desire that son John Keep for his trouble. 3). Give to son James, 20 shillings p..... Bequeath to son Joseph, my plough irons...6). To son John 1 white coat and Jacket and i pair of boots and also desire my son son John to let my wife have the priviledge of the house and find her bread til next spring. Executors/Administrators: son John Rutledge Witness: James Wilson, Morgan Bryan, Evan Ellis." "John Caldwell Guardianship Bonds of Rowan County, NC 2 Aug 1775 William RUTLEDGE James RUTLEDGE Father: Isaac Rutledge, deceased Guardian: David Caldwell Security: Samuel Luckey" There are a number of extant records documenting the migration of William Rutledge. I will cite one particular record which sums up his travels. William Rutledge was as a soldier in the Revolutionary War and applied for a Revolutionary War pension. The original image of the application can be found on Ancestry.com. Here is a portion of an abstract of that record: "PENSION OF WILLIAM RUTLEDGE Revolutionary War - North Carolina - #S4171 State of Tennessee } September sessions of the County Wayne County } Court of said County for the year 1832 On this 5th day of Sept. 1832 personally appeared in open court before the justice of said county now sitting, William Rutledge, a resident of said County and State aged seventy six years since June last, in his being first duly sworn according to law, doth on his oath swear the following declaration in order to obtain the benefit of the Act of Congress passed June 7th 1832. That he entered the service of the United States under the following named officers and served as herein stated. That is to say, He volunteered and entered the above-named service in Rowann County in the state of North Carolina early in the Revolutionary War, under the command of Capt. David Caldwell in General Griffin Rutherford's Brigade. He marched on this tour down on Cross Creek in North Carolina for the purpose of keeping down the Scotch Tories in that quarter. He was then discharged at the expiration of his term of service which was three months. He next volunteered and entered the service in said County of Rowann for the term of three months. He was marched through Burke County over the mountains and crossed near the head of the Catawba River, and from thence over to the head of (the) Tennessee River against the Cherokee Indians under the command of Captain Joseph Dickerson in General Rutherford's Brigade. On this expedition the troops with which applicant was associated drove the Indians from their settlements and towns, burnt their towns, huts, and wigwams and destroyed everything before them. He was then marched back to Rowann County where he was discharged at the end of his term of service. He next volunteered and entered the service, again for the term of three months under Capt. Joseph Dickerson, who was the highest officer in Command on this expedition. He marched down to Pinetree in South Carolina for the purpose of quelling and keeping down the Scotch Tories, and was again marched home and discharged at the end of his term of service, which was one of three months. Applicant then went to live up in Wilkes County, State of North Carolina where he went again into service as a volunteer under Major Micajah Lewis, and marched near to Haw River, thirteen or fourteen miles from Guilford Courthouse, where he and his associate troops defeated the Tories under the Command of Col. Piles. They killed in this engagement a number of the Tories, in full nearly all that were in the action and took no prisoners. Col. Perkins was their General on this occasion on the side of the United States troops. Col. Lee was also in this engagement. About this time the said Applicant was sent in Company with Capt. Robert Cleveland with an express from the Moravian towns to General Green at Guilford Courthouse. Which express was to inform Gen. Green that the British were at the shallow ford on the Yadkin River advancing towards his quarters. This was a short time before the battle fought at Guilford Courthouse. This was the last service that applicant performed except being afterwards engaged in several scouting parties. He has no documentary evidence and he knows of no person whose testimony he can procure who can testify to his service except Col. John Witherspoon of said County of Wayne State of Tennessee. He hereby relinquishes every claim whatever to a pension or annuity except the present, and declares that his name in not on the pension roll of the agency of any state. Sworn to and subscribed in open court the date first above written, Test. Wm. Bennett, Clerk. Wm. Rutledge (signed) Questions put by the War Department: Question 1: Where and in what year were you born? Answer: I was born in the State of Pennsylvania near the town of Carlisle in the year 1756. Question 2: Have you any record of your age and if so where is it? Answer: I think I have at home a record of my age on a small piece of paper in my father's own handwriting. Question 3: Where were you living when called into service; where have you lived since, and where do you now live? Answer: When first called into service I lived in Rowann County, N.C. But afterwards in Wilks County during the Revolutionary War. I came from Wilks County N.C. to Tennessee something like forty years ago to Williamson County where I resided until I moved to Maury County where I lived until three years last since which time I have resided in Wayne County, Tennessee, where I now live. Question 4: How were you called into service, were you drafted, did you volunteer, or were you a substitute and if a substitute for whom. Answer: I volunteered in all the expeditions set forth in my declaration. Question 5: State the name of some of the regular officers who were with the troops where you served; such Continental and Militia Regiments as you can recollect, and the general circumstances of your service. Answer: This question I have answered as well as I am able in the above declaration. Question 6: Did you ever receive a discharge from the service and if so by whom was it given and what has become of it? Answer: I received four discharges, one from Capt. Caldwell, two from Capt. Dickson, and another from Maj. Micajah Lewis, but I have lost or mislaid them all. Question 7: State the names of the persons to whom you are acquainted in your present neighbourhood, and who can testify as to your character for veracity, and their belief of your services as a soldier of the revolution. Answer: I am known to Squire Henry Rayburn, Gen. John Rayburn, Col. John Witherspoon, Robert Thompson, Col. Gallaher, Lewis Johnson, and Samuel Johnson, and others, all of whom can testify both as to my character for veracity and the reputation of my being a Revolutionary soldier in the neighbourhood where I now live. He further states that he was under General Rutherford at the battle fought at Ramsour Mill, where Capt. Gillespie was killed, where the United States troops and the Tories had a very considerable engagement. A number were slain on both sides, but the Tories were completely routed, some taken prisoners and the rest driven from the field. He also states that the said Maj. Lewis was mortally wounded in the engagement at Whiteside Mill on Rudee fork of Haw river and that he was carried off the field and died the next day. Sworn to and subscribed in open court the date first above written Test. William Bennett, Clerk." One final note on William Rutledge. His daughter, Martha C. Rutledge, married John Caldwell, b. 1790, Halifax, VA, on June 5, 1810, in Maury County, TN. This John Caldwell was the son of John Caldwell of Halifax, VA, and is mentioned as one of the orphans John Caldwell in the probate records: "23 Oct 1797 David Caldwell, Gdn of George, Salley & John Caldwell, orph. of John Caldwell, dec'd. Henry Cook, William Caldwell, Allen Caldwell, Jr. & John Terry, Sec. Bond $3,000. Wm. Owen, John Wilson Jr., Henry E. Coleman, & Theo Carter, Gent. Justices. A. Watlington Jr. Wit. 23 Oct. 1797 David Caldwell, Gdn. of Amos Caldwell, orph of John Caldwell, dec'd. Bond $1,000. [Security, Gent. Justices & Wit. same as above.]" David Caldwell, the guardian for both John Caldwell and Amos Caldwell, was residing in Halifax County, VA, in 1882, at the same time that John Roper was living between John Caldwell and Allen Caldwell. David Caldwell is also seen residing next to John Roper in Caswell, NC in 1805. Now let's move on to Joseph Rutledge. As mentioned by William Alexander Roper, Jr., a Joseph Rutledge can also be seen residing next the same John Roper when he moved to Cumberland County, KY and appeared in the 1820 census: "John ROPER, Senr., and John ROPER, Junr., of Cumberland, KY, are enumerated in the 1820 Census immediately adjacent to two RUTLEDGE households, those of Joseph RUTLEDGE and Henry RUTLEDGE. Joseph RUTLEDGE appears to be age 45 of more (b bef 1776) and Henry RUTLEDGE appears to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94)." Secondary sources show this Joseph Roper, b. ca 1749, to be the son of John Rutledge and Eleanor Jane Caldwell and the brother of Isaac Rutledge, all mentioned above. Joseph Rutledge married Jane Speer on August 11, 1772 in Rowan County, NC (see abstract on Ancestry.com). Oliver Wallis was the bondsmen and Ad Osborn was a witness. In that same year of 1772, John Turnbull married the widow of Isaac Rutledge in Rowan County. There are many records that shows the family connections between the Rutledge family, the Speer family, and the Edleman family in Surry, NC, a few of which are the following: "1783 15 Aug 1783 Daniel Mosby to Peter Edleman 50 pds 144 3/4 ac Elrodes branch, fork Turners Creek; being land whereupon Daniel Mosby now lives. Jacob Speer, Senr., John (x) Speer, jurat. s/Daniel Mosby. (Book C, page 41) [Absher, Mrs. W. O. 1981. Surry County, North Carolina Abstracts Deed Books A, B, and C (1770-1788). So. Hist. Press, Easley, S. Car.] 1788 - Surry Co. Court, Session of 16 Feb. 1788 - Peter Eddleman served on road jury (also on Jury-- Henry Speer, Ben Speer, John Groce) [Absher, Mrs. W. O., and Mrs. R. K. Hayes. undated. Surry County, North Carolina Court Minutes Vol. II (1786-1789). North Wilkesboro, N. Car.] 1789 - Will written, as follows (from copy of original) In the Name of God Amen. I Peter Edelman being sick and weak of body but of sound and purfect sense and memory thanks be to Almighty God for the same do make and ordain this my last will and testament. First and formost I Kuommend? by soul into the hand of Almighty God who gave it me and my body to the Earth to be decently buried at the discretion of my Executors hereafter named _____?. What wordly goods its hath pleased Almighty God to ___? upon me I give and bequeath as follows my will and ___? is that all by debts and funeral expenses be first paid and dischearged. Item I lend to my beloved wife Marget Edelmon all my land and plantation wheare on I now live on Turner's Creek Adjoining Matthias Steelmon & John Jonas' land durin her Neatorl life and at her Decease to ___ unto my two sons Peter Edelman & Jacob Edelman to be Equely Divided betwen Two Peter & Jacob Edelman. Item I also lend to my wife Marget Edelman one waggon & [5] Horse Critters (to wit) one Black Mare one g! ray Horse one Bay Horse & Two Black Horses together with all the grass belonging to said waggon Durin her natural life and at her Deseas to be Disposed of at the Descresion o her & my Executors herafter menshed. Item I lend to my Beloved wife Marget Edelman all my Stock of Veal Cattel Hoggs & sheep and House Hole furniture During her Natoral life or widow hoode & Incase she Should Marry or Die to be Equaly Divided Between my Two Sons Peter Edelman Jacob Edelman & my Son John Edelmans Daughter Marget Edelman & my Three Daughters Barbary Grose Julian Roberts& Christen Randolph, and all the Rest & Residue of my wourldly good I levae to my Beloved wife Marget Edelman to pay my Debts & funorel charges and I do hereunto Constistute & Appoint my said wife Marget Edelman my Execuqx(?) & my Trusty Friends Jacob Speer & Henry Speer my Executors of this my last will and testament and I do hereby Revoke and Disallow and make void all former wills by Me heretofore made or Spoken In Witness Whereof I have herunto set my hand this 7th Day of Jany 1789. His Witnesses Present: Georg ______ Jurat mark Peter (X) Edelman John (I) Bohannon Patrick (P) Burns Joseph Rutledge" Notice that Joseph Rutledge is a witness to the will of Peter Edleman. Joseph Rutledge is listed in the 1790 Surrey County, NC census, and the 1800 and 1810 Clark County, KY census records. Joseph then appears in the1820 Cumberland County, KY census residing next to John Roper of Halifax Co., VA and Caswell, NC, and his son John C. Roper. Additional evidence that this is the same Joseph Rutledge of Surry County comes from his land grant claim in Kentucky. I found this information on the Internet, from research done by Pamela Ponder Hooser and Mrs. John M. Rutledge of Texas: "On 17 September 1830 Joseph Rutledge went to Burksville, Cumberland County, Kentucky, and appeared before George Craft, a Justice of the Peace of Cumberland County, and made a sworn affidavit concerning a claim for 300 acres as a land grant from the State of Kentucky. He stated that he is now 81 years old and that he is old and infirm and unable to work anymore, and due to his infirmities he is unable to go to the Courthouse of the County to present his claim. (Kentucky records indicate that originally there were only 3 counties in Kentucky. These were subsequently broken up into as many as 9 new counties for each one of the large counties.) Joseph Rutledge states that he served two 9 month "tours" or "stretches" as a Private in the Army of North Carolina (Surry County where he then resided), in 1779 and 1780, in the Revolutionary War against Great Britain. He served under Henry Spears and Captain William T. Hughlett, and Colonel Joseph Williams and Colonel John Armstrong. He was in the battle of the defeat of General Gates, and other small skirmishes. Benjamin Spear, now of Overton County, Kentucky, served with Joseph under the same officers and in the same battles. On 30 May 1821, Joseph's claim for land grant was rejected, probably because of the "Statute of Limitations". He had waited from 1800 until 1830 before making his claim. In 30 years probably all the "grant land" of Kentucky was exhausted, and besides they probably figured that a man of 81 years of age, without slaves, could not work a 300 acre farm. About 1832, Joseph Rutledge Senior died in Cumberland County, Kentucky, at age of 83 years." Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1875.5.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, There seems to be little doubt that the William Roper who is residing in Davidson County, TN in 1811 is the same William Roper who divorced Polly. In looking at the 1811 Davidson County Tax List, the image of which can be found on Ancestry.com, William Roper is shown residing next to James P. Downs, a little too close for his wife Polly. As you noted in a previous post on 18 Mar 2014 titled "William P. Downs (d. abt 12 Jul 1866) and the Tennessee Chancery Case State v. James C. Allen, et al", we have the following account: "There seems to be still more to the family scandal involving William ROPER and the notorious Polly ROPER at the end of the life of the following generation. In the Tennessee Chancery Case State of Tennessee v. James C. ALLEN, et al, decided at April Term, 1874, the court considered a matter arising from the intestacy of one William P. DOWNS. Within the introductory recitation of the facts of this case, it is explained: "Bill and amended bill filed, under the act of May 26, 1866, ch. 46, to have the estate of one William P. DOWNS declared escheated to the state. The bill is based upon the ground that the deceased was the illegitimate son of one James P. DOWNS by one Polly ROPER, while she lived in lawful wedlock with one William ROPER, and that he died, never having been married, without issue, intestate, and leaving no relatives entitled by law to his estate."" Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lewis, Scott Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.7/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I wanted to briefly elaborate on your mention of George ROPER's military service in 1793. George ROPER is shown to have served as a private within Captain William LEWIS' Company, Lt. Col. William RUSSELL's Regiment in the active service of the United States, under the command of Major General Charles SCOTT. George ROPER apparently served from October 2 to November 9, 1793. These troops were mustered at Fort Washington. John LEWIS is also shown on the muster rolls as a Sergeant in Captain William LEWIS' company. Further study of the 1793 muster roll may yield additional insight into precisely where George ROPER was then residing. This service may have been part of the national response to the "Whiskey Insurrection" or "Whiskey Rebellion," a violent precursor to the Civil War in which Western frontier areas engaged in violent protests against U.S. government taxes on distilled liquor. A transcription of the muster roll appears within "American Militia in the Frontier Wars, 1790-1796," at Ancestry at Images 86-7 of 394 (Chapter 1 Kentucky Militia). The underlying muster roll seems to be at the National Archives, RG94:54, Box 4. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Ward, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1750.2.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John W. WARD was enumerated in a Census record adjacent to his father Bryan (shown as Briant) WARD, residing in Smith County, TN, in 1840. John WARD's Census record shows: John WARD: 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Smith, TN 1840] John W. WARD is shown to be age 30 to 39. John's unnamed (ROPER) wife is shown to be age 20 to 29. Son John P. WARD is shown to be under age 5 and daughter Mary E. WARD is shown to be age 5 to 9. John W. WARD's wife seems to be the female child shown to be age 10 to 14 (b abt 1816-20) in John Y. ROPER's 1830 Census record. John Y ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 5 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 12 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Sumner, TN 1830] Since the grandchildren are identified as being ages 11 (b abt 1835) and 9 (b abt 1837) in 1846 within the court decision and John P. WARD is shown to be age 24 in the 1860 Census, it seems that John W. WARD married John Y. ROPER's daughter between 1830 and 1835, most likely about 1833-4. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Ward, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1750.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John W. WARD's Will was dated 01 Jan 1845 and was proven at the March 1845 County Court. The Will identifies John W. WARD's children as Mary E. WARD and John P. WARD and shows these children to be minors. The Will further identifies John W. WARD's father as Bryan WARD, naming his father and brother-in-law Easton P. LOWE as co-executors. Henry WARD and H. BARKSDALE are witnesses to this Will. John W. WARD's primary assets seem to be his eleven slaves, identified by name: Frank, Meriah, Silas, Tilmon, Lizzy, Davy, Anderson, Henry, Archy, Marshal and Darthula. By a codicil to this Will dated February 17, 1845, John W. WARD further adds his uncle Matthew H. WARD as a third co-executor. Henry WARD, Thos. CALHOUN and H. BARKSDALE are witnesses to the codicil. There is no identification of the name of John W. WARD's wife, who predeceased him. The images of this Will are available online at the FamilySearch.org web site within the Collection identified as "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927." The Will, including codicil and probate information, spans Images 249 to 254. See: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2160619-1-48?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-529:179779901,180251101 : accessed 23 Apr 2014), Smith > Wills, 1841-1859, Vol. 03 > image 250 of 1059. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Ward, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1750.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John W. WARD's Will was dated 01 Jan 1845 and was proven at the March 1845 County Court. The Will identifies John W. WARD's children as Mary E. WARD and John P. WARD and shows these children to be minors. The Will further identifies John W. WARD's father as Bryan WARD, naming his father and brother-in-law Easton P. LOWE as co-executors. Henry WARD and H. BARKSDALE are witnesses to this Will. John W. WARD's primary assets seem to be his eleven slaves, identified by name: Frank, Meriah, Silas, Tilmon, Lizzy, Davy, Anderson, Henry, Archy, Marshal and Darthula. By a codicil to this Will dated February 17, 1845, John W. WARD further adds his uncle Matthew H. WARD as a third co-executor. Henry WARD, Thos. CALHOUN and H. BARKSDALE are witnesses to the codicil. There is no identification of the name of John W. WARD's wife, who predeceased him. The images of this Will are available online at the FamilySearch.org web site within the Collection identified as "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927." The Will, including codicil and probate information, spans Images 249 to 254. See: "Tennessee, Probate Court Books, 1795-1927," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-195-2160619-1-48?cc=1909088&wc=M6QW-529:179779901,180251101 : accessed 23 Apr 2014), Smith > Wills, 1841-1859, Vol. 03 > image 250 of 1059. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.6/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In my prior post last night "What the Missing 1830 Census Record Should Look Like" (22 Apr 2014 10:20PM GMT), I identified what John ROPER's 1830 Census record should look like by creating a projected Census record from the information in John H. ROPER's family Bible. It turns out that there is an East Tennessee Census record from 1830 which very closely corresponds to that projection, but it is Indexed as a "RAPER" rather than a ROPER record. The actual Census images in this instance are VERY CLEAR. The families shown in Regiment 67, Monroe County, TN, are identified in the records as "ROAPER" rather than either ROPER or RAPER. Both John ROAPER, Junr. and John ROAPER, Senr., are found in adjacent records on the same Census page within Regiment 67, Monroe County, TN, in 1830. I have also identified the heads of household in several of the adjacent records: Agatha PROCK Henry HILE Joseph ELLISON Benjamin FALKINBERRY John MOODY John ROAPER, Jnr.: 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 3 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [Monroe, TN 1830] John ROAPER, Snr.: 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [Monroe, TN 1830] Geroge MADDON Elizabeth ARHART John TOWSON Robert McREYNOLDS Wiley TUCKER James TUCKER, Senr. Tillet WHITLOCK Isaac HARDIN Jonathan MOORE See: "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHPM-666 : accessed 20 Apr 2014), John Raper, Regiment 67, Monroe, Tennessee; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 97, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 175, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024533. * Note that John ROAPER, Jnr. is shown to be age 40 to 49 (b abt 1781-90) with a probable wife age 30 to 39 (b abt 1791-1800). In fact, compare the actual Census record for John ROAPER, of Monroe, TN, in 1830, with my projection of what the Census record OUGHT TO LOOK LIKE given the information shown in John H. ROPER's Bible: John ROPER:.......... 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 3 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Projected from Bible record] John ROAPER, Jnr.: 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 3 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [Monroe, TN 1830] The ONLY deviation is in the female children under age 5. * * Similarly, note that the female in the immediately adjacent record for John ROAPER, Senr., is shown to be age 70 to 79 (1751-60), compared with Elizabeth ROPER's 1840 Census record showing her to be age 80 to 89. It would be difficult to conceive of a much closer conformance in Census data! Although the latter record is denominated John ROAPER, Senr., the only male in this household is shown to be age 15 to 19. Clearly, this young man cannot be the father of the John ROAPER, Junr., age 40 to 49, in the previous record. The age difference is even inconsistent with this being a younger brother. More likely, this young man in a grandson of the female in John ROAPER, Senr.'s household. It is UNCLEAR from this Census record whether John ROAPER, Senr., is already dead or whether he is simply elsewhere at the date of the Census enumeration. There seems NOT to be an extant probate record for this John ROPER in Monroe County. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1900/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As has been recently discussed in another recent thread initiated by Frank BATCHELOR -- "George Roper, b. 1762-65, NC; d. aft 1840, Jefferson County, IL" (16 Apr 2014 12:12AM GMT) -- there were two very early George ROPERs who settled in Illinois. One of these was Revolutionary War Veteran George ROPER (b abt 1762-5). The other was a younger George ROPER (b abt 1788-9 - NC, d 08 Sep 1866 - IL). The likely year of birth of the younger George ROPER has been a subject of some contention since it is reported that his grave marker shows this information: "G.W. Roper died Sept 8, 1866 Aged 89 years" The indications represented on this purported grave marker would seem to suggest that this George W. ROPER was born about 1777. * * * It is helpful to review the extant primary information to establish our confidence in the date of birth which might be inferred from the purported grave marker. The most specific primary evidence of this George ROPER's year of birth prior to his death is the age given in the 1850 and 1860 Census enumerations. In 1850, this George ROPER was enumerated residing in the household of James M. ROPER, age 18, in Stonefort, Saline County, IL. George is then reported to be age 61 and born in North Carolina in James ROPER's Census record, implying a year of birth of about 1789. In 1860, this George ROPER is shown to be age 72 (b abt 1788 - NC) and born in North Carolina. He is enumerated with wife Rachal (Rachel), age 65, a Louis ROPER, age 12, residing in Township 9, Range 5 E, Saline County, IL. David ROPER, age 35, a Wagon Maker, is enumerated in the adjacent record. Thus, we have two very similar indications in Census returns a decade apart six years before George ROPER's death. * But there are also earlier Census records which give consistent similar indications, though less specific. We believe that this George ROPER was enumerated in Fayette, IL, in 1840. Here are the counts from the 1840 record: George ROPER: 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Fayette, IL 1840] This George ROPER is age 50 to 59 (b abt 1781-90). The elder female in the 1840 Census record seems to be age 40 to 49 (b abt 1791-1800). * In 1830, we are inclined to believe that this is the same George ROPER enumerated residing in Marion, IL. Here is the distribution for George ROPER, of Marion: George ROPER: 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Marion, IL 1830] This George ROPER is age 40 to 49 (b abt 1781-90). The elder female in the 1830 Census record seems to be age 30 to 39 (b abt 1791-1800). The female child under age 5 is consistent with the female age 10 to 14 in 1840. The younger males are consistent if the two eldest males from the 1830 record have left the household and been replaced by two younger males, one under age 5 and one age 5 to 9. * In 1820, this George ROPER seems to have been enumerated residing in Monroe, Pope County, IL. The different age categories of the 1820 Census give us a little additional insight.: George ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 [Monroe, Pope, IL 1820] This George ROPER is shown to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94). The female is also shown to be in this same age range. There are two males under age 10 (b abt 1811-20) and two females under age 10. * * But there is even yet another Census record for this George ROPER in the 1855 Illinois State Census, enumerated in Township 5, White County, adjacent to William M. ROPER and James M. ROPER. In the 1855 enumeration, George ROPER is shown to be age 60 to 69 (b abt 1786-95). * * * Thus, across SIX Census enumerations, we have these implicit estimates of George ROPER's age: 1820: b abt 1776-94 (age 26 to 44) 1830: b abt 1781-90 (age 40 to 49) 1840: b abt 1781-90 (age 50 to 59) 1850: b abt 1789 (age 61) 1855: b abt 1786-95 (age 60 to 69) 1860: b abt 1788 (age 72) Does anyone see a pattern here? These Census figures are ALL consistent and support the validity of the more precise figures given in 1850 and 1860. * * * Finally, we have a Census record for George ROPER in 1865, when is again enumerated within the State Census residing in Brushy Township, Saline County, IL, adjacent to David ROPER. In this enumeration, George is shown to be age 80 to 89 (b abt 1774-85). This is the FIRST Census since 1820 to suggest that George might have been born before 1781 and the ONLY Census which data is INCONSISTENT with the 1850 and 1860 Census returns. If our estimate of George ROPER's year of birth 1788-9 is correct, this George ROPER is actually about age 76 to 77 at the date of the 1865 State Census enumeration taken a year before his death. On balance, it seems to me that we must place greater confidence in the six consistent Census enumerations across five decades before he became elderly and infirm over the recollections of the children AFTER George ROPER's death. The apparent coinciding death of Rachel ROPER the very same day seems to add to the uncertainty about the verity of information appearing on the grave marker. I believe that the data supports the ascription of 1788-9 OVER the 1777, which is inconsistent with data from FIVE of the seven Census enumerations. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In my original post, I identified John ROPER's 1840 and 1850 Census record. We have NOT yet found John ROPER in either the 1830 or 1860 Census. Based upon the genealogical information in the John Henry ROPER family Bible, John and Nancy ROPER's family in 1830 would have consisted of the following age ranges and counts: ONE Male age 40 to 49 [John ROPER] ONE Male age 15 to 19 [Yewall ROPER] TWO Males age 10 to 14 [William ROPER and John H. ROPER] ONE Female age 30 to 39 [Nancy ROPER] TWO Females age 15 to 19 OR ONE Female age 15 to 19 and ONE Female age 20 to 29 [Mary ROPER and Rebecca ROPER] THREE Females age 5 to 9 [Elizabeth ROPER, Sarah ROPER and Nancy J. ROPER] TWO Females Under age 5 [Margaret A. ROPER and Marthy G. ROPER] Using the columns of the 1830 Census, John ROPER's Census record should have looked very similar to one of these projected records: John ROPER: 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 OR John ROPER: 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 3 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 Note that the John Henry Family Bible gives no further genealogical information for Marthy G. Roper (b 04 Dec 1828). If Marthy ROPER survived childhood, the projected records shown above should be roughly correct, though it is possible that John ROPER had other persons also living in his household. By contrast, if Marthy ROPER fied in infancy, the female under age 5 count might be only "1" instead of "2". Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863) and David ROPER are mentioned within several very early published township and county histories. While these are often secondary rather than primary accounts, the publishers of these histories seem to have taken some care in getting their facts right. Moreover, the histories were each published during the lifetimes of the children and grandchildren of the subjects, when memories of events were still fresh and are therefor less reliant on speculation and conjecture. I am including the full text of the most immediate mention. Those interested in a better understanding of the life and times of John ROPER and the context of each mention are encouraged to follow the links to the online versions of each cited work where the history appears in its entirety. I have included EACH ROPER MENTION I found in each cited book, even though this strays slightly from the central focus of this thread on John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863). I would add the caution, several times repeated below, that while I endeavored to identify every ROPER mention, I am NOT certain that I succeeded in finding all mentions. Those with a keen interest in this family are therefore encouraged to read the histories in their entirety (which I did NOT DO) to double check my work. If you find another ROPER mention in any of the works cited, please let us know by posting the mention as a Reply! * * * MENTIONS IN THE HISTORY OF SPRINGFIELD (1878) Even before the publication of the Goodspeed History of Greene County, George S. ESCOTT published a his History and Directory of Springfield and North Springfield (Springfield, MO: [Springfield] Patriot-Advertiser for George S. ESCOTT, 1878). This history gives a very vivid early account of the history of the settlement of Springfield written within the lifetime and recollection of the some of the earliest settlers and their children. "In the same year [1832] came Thomas P. Whitlock, the father of W. P. Whitlock, of this city. He arrived in June, from Hardeman county, Tennessee, and settled in what is now Franklin township, in the north part of the county, near where he still lives. He brought with him a wife and one son. He has had, in all, a family of eight children, all but one of whom are still living. We also learn the names of Zachariah Simms, Benjamin Johnson, Henry Morrison, David and John Roper, Drury Upshaw, and Larkin Dewitt, all of whom settled about the same time in that part of the county." [at Page 35] https://archive.org/stream/historydirectory01esco#page/35/mode/1up * Apparently quoting from correspondence or a journal of a Mr. MILLER, we are further told: "The first meeting-house, or church for worship, was built of oak logs in 1833, at a spring in the woods about half a mile north of Capt. Geo. Jones' present residence, and was occupied by the Methodists and Cumberland Presbyterians. I believe the first marriage ceremony ever performed in the neighborhood of Springfield was that of Lawson Fulbright, who married David Roper's daughter in 1831, who lived four miles northeast. The next, in the same year, was Junious Rountree, who married Joseph Miller's daughter, Martha, at the place where Squire Beiderlinden now lives. She was the mother of the wives of Geo. Beal, Newt. Williams, Joe Winfield and --- McCall." [at Page 47] See: https://archive.org/stream/historydirectory01esco#page/47/mode/1up * There may be OTHER mentions within this History which went UNNOTICED by me. The SEARCH feature failed to even identify the mentions cited above and I only just skimmed the book. The book contains MUCH rich history of Springfield and Greene County and ought to be a MUST READ for the Greene County branch of the ROPER family! * * * * * MENTIONS IN THE HISTORY OF GREENE COUNTY (1883) The ROPER family is mentioned in several places within the published History of Greene County, Missouri (St. Louis: Western Historical Company, 1883). The mentions of David ROPER and his immediate family are somewhat more prominent than those of John ROPER, no doubt owing to his longer presence in the County. I found ROPER mentions on these pages -- 148, 155-6, 556, 728, 876, 878-9, 895 -- but there may be others. I have summarized these mentions below. The complete published History of Green County is available online at Google Books. "CHAPTER I [beginning page 125] PIONEER HISTORY ... Some time in 1831, James K. Alsop, Samuel Scroggins and Daniel Johnson settled on the Little Sac, and were followed, in 1832, by John Headlee, and two brothers-in-law, Benjamin Johnson and James Dryden. In the same year came Thomas P. Whitlock, the father of W. P. Whitlock. He arrived in June, from Hardeman county, Tennessee, and settled in was is now Franklin township, in the north part of the county. He brought with him a wife and one son. Zachariah Simms, Benjamin Johnson, Henry Morrison, David and John Roper, Drury Upshaw, and Larkin Dewitt, all settled about the same time in that part of the county. John Briscoe, with his sons-in-law, Jacob and Andrew Roller, arrived from Tennessee in 1831 or 1832, and settled in the south part of the county." [at page 148] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA148#v=onepage&q&f=false * * "Partial list of early settlers in what was then Campbell township, Greene county, in August, 1833: John Roberts, Peter Apperson, John D. Shannon, James Carter, Joseph Porter, Chas. P. Bullock, Chesley Cannefax, Wm. H. Duncan, E. Brantley, G. Gay, Randolph Britt, J. P. Campbell, Samuel Martin, John Patten Campbell, James Fielding, Daniel Gray, Thomas Caulfield, E. R. Fulbright, G. N. Shelton, Joseph Price, Sr., Radford Cannefax, David Roper, Moses Mattews, Zenas Rountree, A. Morris, J. R. Robberson, G. Maberry, A. Stillion, John Buden, James Wilson, Joseph Smith, John Fulbright, Stephen Fisher, Wm. Stacey, Wash. Williams, A. Shaddock, Spencer O'Niel, F. Leeper, Wm. Price, Thos. Horn, Wm. Stout, A. S. Borne, Kindred Rose, Edward Thompson, James R. Smith, Cornelius Terrell, Newell Hayden, Larkin Dewitt, J. McKinney, David Johnson, Martin B. Borne, Joseph Weaver, B. W. Cannefax, C. Hottler, J. L. Martin, Wm. Fulbright, Wm. McFarland, J. Woods, Richard C. Martin, John Sturteva! nt, L. Fulbright, Watson Forbes, John Roberts, Jr., John R. Brock, John Ross, H. C. Morrison, John Slagles, George Shoemaker, Abram Slagles, Jerry Pierson, James McCarroll, John McKay, Elisha Painter, Joseph Rountree, Alexander Younger, D. B. Miller, David Wilson, Junious Rountree, Thomas F. Wright, Samuel Lasley, Gilbert McKay, Littleberry Hendrick, James Cooper, John Roper, Drury Upshaw, James Dollison, James McMahan, James Renfroe, John Pennington, William Birdsong, Thomas Stokes, John W. Triplett, A. J. Burnett, R. Harper, S.G. Martin, John Williams, James Price, Jr., Simeon Postion, Thomas Patterson, Robert Patterson, Wm. Ross, R. Ross, Samuel Painter." [at Pages 155-6] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA155#v=onepage&q&f=false * * "The first marriage in the neighborhood was that of Lawson Fulbright and a daughter of David Roper, living four miles east, in 1831." [at Page 728] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA728#v=onepage&q&f=false * * "Lawson Fulbright married Elizabeth Roper, a daughter of David Roper, who lived in the North part of the township [Campbell], some time in 1831, and a claim is made that this was the first marriage in the township, but it is not probably that it antedated Rountree's marriage." [at Page 876] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA876#v=onepage&q&f=false * * "ANTIOCH (CHRISTIAN) CHURCH Was organized in 1854 on section 5, township 29, range 22. Names of the original members were John Wood, Elizabeth Wood, James G. Wood, John M. Wood, William White, Margaret White, E. White, Weloy Roper, Minerva Roper, John Robinson, Susan Robinson and E. White. The first church was erected in 1859, a brick building costing $200. It was dedicated in the autumn of 1859 by Elder Charles Carlton. The number of present members is 114. The pastors that served the church were Elder Joel Hardin, Charles Carlton, J. T. Roberts, and Kirk Baxter (present pastor). The cemetery in connection with this church is an important one. The site of the church and cemetery comprises 20 acres. The first interments in the cemetery were made in 1860, when the bodies of Mrs. William White, Margaret Fry and a child of Elisha White were reburied here, having first been given sepulture on the White farm some years before. The bodies named and that of Russell Roper, a boy; twelve years old, were reburied here in the fall of 1860. The present cemetery comprises about four acres." [at Pages 878-9] http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA878#v=onepage&q&f=false * * "CHAPTER XXXIV FRANKLIN TOWNSHIP. ... POSITION AND DESCRIPTION Franklin township comprises all of congressional township 30, and the south twenty-four sections of 31, in range 21. In character the topography of the country is varied, although inclined to be rough and broken. Like many other portions of Southwest Missouri, a great deal of the soil is poor and unproductive, with occasional fine farms and many fertile spots. Only a comparatively small portion of the township is prairie. ... EARLY HISTORY Franklin township had as one of its first settlers, James K. Alsup, who came from Tennessee in 1831 and settled on the Little Sac, in section 17, tp. 30. An old gentleman named Daniel Johnson came the same year, and settled in section 7. Samuel Scroggins came also in 1831, and made an improvement on the Little Sac, on section 22, tp. 30. In the fall of 1832, John Headlee arrived from Maury county, Tennessee, and put up his first cabin on section 10, near the line between that and section 9. At the same time with Headlee came Benjamin Johnson and James Dryden, and settled on section 9. The widow Simms, the mother-in-law of Mr. Headlee, also came at the same time with him, and made her home in the township. Larkin DeWitt came the same year (1832) and settled on the Sac. Robert Ross, who came in 1832, lived farther east. Thos. J. Whitlock came to Greene county in 1832, locating first on the Kickapoo prairie, but soon after removing to this township, on the south side of! the Sac, on section 21. Thomas James was an early settler of the township. He was born in North Carolina, afterwards removed to Tennessee, and came to Greene county in 1835. Caleb Headlee, the father of Hon. Samuel W. Headlee, emigrated from Maury county, Tennessee, in 1836, and settled in the township. In the fall of 1834, David H. Bedell came from North Carolina and made a settlement in section 5, where he died in April 1860. Nearly all the early settlers of the township were from Tennessee, but a great part had originally come from North Carolina before reaching Tennessee. The Headlee and Bedell families trace their ancestry back to New Jersey. In the southern part of the township David Roper and family came from East Tennessee, and settled just over the township line on the south. David Appleby and James Appleby, with their families, came to section 55, from Bedford county, Tennessee, in 1833. About 1835 C. C. Williamson came from Kentucky and settled on section 29. About the same time came Erastus McMurray and his mother and brother. Further to the north, on section 7, came Daniel Johnson, from Illinois, as early as 1831. He made the first improvement on the prairie in that quarter. Drury Upshaw was another pioneer in the extreme northern part of the township, and the prairie now called "Upshur" prairie was originally named for him. Francis and Zachariah Simms and Henry Morrison, in other portions of the township, were early settlers. ITEMS OF EARLY HISTORY The first marriage in the neighborhood of the settlements in Franklin township was that of Lawson Fulbright and Elizabeth Roper, at the house of the bride's father, David Roper, in 1831. The ceremony was performed by Rev. J. H. Slavens, the pioneer methodist minister. At that time, however, old David Roper lived in what is now Campbell township. This is claimed by some to have been the first marriage of white persons in Greene county -- at least within the present limits." [at pages 895-6] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=H3o8AAAAIAAJ&dq=History of Greene County Missouri Roper&pg=PA895#v=onepage&q&f=false * * * * * MENTIONS IN THE HISTORY OF LACLEDE COUNTY ... (1889) Since John ROPER later migrated to Wright County, he is also mentioned with the book History of Laclede, Camden, Dallas, Webster, Wright, Texas, Pulaski, Phelps and Debt Counties, (Chicago: Goodspeed, 1889), as further shown below. >From within the Section on the History of Wright County: "CHURCHS Early Religious Movements. -- The first church organization in Wright County was the Cumberland Presbyterian, twelve miles up the Gasconade Fork from the present Hartville, at a campground established there about forty-seven years ago. The preachers were the two Bakers, Presbyterian; the Hights and John Cummins and John Roper, Methodist. Jonathan Hickman, who was present, is confident that there were neither Methodist nor Baptist societies here then, but he states that in the fall following a Methodist class and union school were organized. Later, Methodist Preacher John McEwin bought a log cabin from James Young, and therein held the first services at Hartville. At Mountain Grove, as well as at Mansfield, there are Cumberland Presbyterian societies, but their organization is quite modern." [at Page 404] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=B9IyAQAAMAAJ&dq=history of laclede county missouri&pg=PA404#v=onepage&q&f=false * * * (Within the Section on the History of Webster County) "Township 29, Range 17, was opened in 1845, Stephen Julian, Tanner Hailey and John Foster making purchases on Sections 25, 26, and 36 in December of that year. ... William Roper, in 1846, purchased on Section 17." [at Page 178] See: http://books.google.com/books?id=B9IyAQAAMAAJ&dq=history of laclede county missouri&pg=PA178#v=onepage&q&f=false Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ward Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1750.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Since John Y. ROPER is identified as a party to the Ward v. Roper case, I thought it might help to take a little closer look at John Y. ROPER's extant Census data. John Y ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Smith, TN 1820] John Y ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 5 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 12 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Sumner, TN 1830] John Y ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 6 - 7 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 5 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Sumner, TN 1840] See: "United States Census, 1820," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHLT-8XB : accessed 22 Apr 2014), John Y Rossie, Not Stated, Smith, Tennessee; citing "1820 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 43, NARA microfilm publication M33, roll 125, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0193687. "United States Census, 1830," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHP4-RNR : accessed 22 Apr 2014), Bnnony Raper, Not Stated, Sumner, Tennessee; citing "1830 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 215, NARA microfilm publication M19, roll 181, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024539. "United States Census, 1840," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XHT1-VFC : accessed 22 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, Not Stated, Sumner, Tennessee; citing "1840 United States Federal Census," Ancestry.com; p. 353, NARA microfilm publication M704, roll 534, National Archives and Records Administration, Washington D.C.; FHL microfilm 0024549. * * In 1820, John Y. ROPER [Indexed as "ROSSIE" at FamilySearch.org] is shown to be age 18 to 25 (b abt 1795-1804). He is shown to have a somewhat older female, presumably his wife, age 26 to 44 (b abt 1776-94) in his household. There is also one male child under age 10 (b abt 1811-20) and one female child under age 10 residing in John Y. ROPER's household. In 1830, John Y. ROPER [Indexed as "RAPER" at FamilySearch.org] is shown to have one male age 50 to 59 (b abt 1771-80) residing within his household, as well as a male age 30 to 39 (abt 1791-1800) and a male age 10 to 14. There is also a female age 40 to 49 (b abt 1781-90) and a female child age 10 to 14. In 1840, John Y. ROPER is shown to be age 40 to 49 (b abt 1791-1800), with a male child age 15 to 19 (b abt 1821-5), a female age 40 to 49 (b abt 1791-1800) and a female child under age 5. The older male age 50 to 59 (b abt 1771-80) in John Y. ROPER's household in 1830 is absolutely INCOMPATIBLE with the age range shown for John in the 1820 Census when he is shown to be age 18 to 25 (b abt 1795-1802). By contrast, the male age 30 to 39 (abt 1791-1800) IS CONSISTENT with John Y. ROPER's Census record. Similarly, the date in the 1840 Census record cannot be readily reconciled with that shown in 1830 if one were to infer that John Y. ROPER was the OLDER male in the 1830 enumeration. But the data IS precisely consistent IF John Y. ROPER is the male shown to be 30 to 39 (abt 1791-1800) is the 1830 Census record. These three implicit estimates of John Y. ROPER's year of birth are therefore: b abt 1795-1804 (age 18 to 25) [1820] b abt 1791-1800 (age 30 to 39 ) [1830] b abt 1791-1800 (age 40 to 49) [1840] This resolves to an age range of b abt 1795-1800 across the three Census enumerations. * * * The 1850 Census record gives us better clarity and resolves the remaining ambiguity as to the identity of the grandchildren. Here is John Y. ROPER's household in the 1850 enumeration: John Y. ROPER, age 56, M, W, Born NC, R.E. $10,000, Born NC Sarah ROPER, age 62, F, W, Born NC John Y. ROPER, age 28, M, W, Born TN John E. WARD, age 16, M, W, Born TN Mary E. WARD, age 15, F, W, Born TN See: "United States Census, 1850," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MC69-NZ5 : accessed 22 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, Sumner county, Sumner, Tennessee, United States; citing family 93, NARA microfilm publication M432. * * John WARD and Mary WARD are erroneously transcribed in both the Ancestry.com and the FamilySearch.org Indices. They were shown as WORD in the Ancestry transcription (I have posted a correction) and as WOOD in the FamilySearch.org transcription. Thus, it appears that in 1850 John Y. ROPER's two grandchildren, surnamed WARD were residing in the ROPER household rather than the WARD household. * * John Y. ROPER is still living at age 66 (b abt 1794) at the date of the 1860 Census enumeration, but wife Sarah is no longer shown in his household. Son John Y. ROPER, shown to be age 39, seems to be married to an Angeline ROPER, age 22, born in Virginia. They have a child William, not yet 1 year old. Grandson John P. WARD, age 24, is also shown to still reside in his grandfather's household. See: "United States Census, 1860," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M8TR-35X : accessed 22 Apr 2014), John Y Roper, District No 1, Sumner, Tennessee, United States; citing "1860 U.S. Federal Census - Population," Fold3.com; p. 97, household ID 665, NARA microfilm publication M653; FHL microfilm 805275. * * * There was also a William ROPER enumerated in Sumner County in 1840: William ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Sumner, TN 1840] This William ROPER is age 50 to 59 (b abt 1781-90), with a wife in her 40s and no slaves. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ward Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1750.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Two years ago, I noted the mention of some important genealogical information concerning a WARD and ROPER family appearing within the decision in the Tennessee Supreme Court case Ward v. Roper, 26 Tenn. 111, 1846 Tenn. LEXIS 71, 7 Hum. 111 (Tenn. 1846). I subsequently speculated that perhaps the case pertained to a McMinn, Tennessee ROPER family. The Tennessee Supreme Court has recently made available archival information regarding case files in its possession. See: http://tnsos.org/tsla/SupremeCourtCases/index.php The abstracted case file information on the case Ward v. Roper immediately reveals some additional key clues. The full names of the parties to this appeal seem to be: Bryan Ward, E. P. Lowe, Matthew H. Ward, exec. Of John W. Ward, deceased v. John Y. Roper and John Y . Roper Jr. The appeal is shown to be from Sumner County, where John Y. ROPER was known to reside. There appear to be some extant archival material, possibly the briefs, trial court decision and record, as well as other evidence from the case. This additional information is given: "This case is located in MT Oversize box." and "Range:33, Section:A, Shelf:1" I understand this information to refer to the location of the files within the Tennessee Supreme Court's Archives. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Martin, Mulkey, Murley Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1698.3.1.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In my prior post, I perhaps falsely credited MARTIN genealogists with care in the ascription of Hannah MARTIN as John C Roper's (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO) wife. While this ascription MAY still be correct, at a minimum the death certificate of John C Roper's (b 02 Aug 1796 - VA, 16 Dec 1876 - Dallas, MO) son John C. ROPER (b 10 Apr 1825 - KY, d 21 Jun 1914) calls into question whether there was another possibly previous wife OR whether the ascription was ever correct at all. John's death certificate identifies his parents as "J. C. Roper," born Kentucky (which birthplace is incorrect) and "Hannah Mulkey," born Kentucky. The informant was John C. ROPER's son George ROPER. It might be easy to dismiss the grandson's indication of the identity of his grandmother, who had died five years before his birth. But the elder John C. ROPER lived until 1876, when George was 26 years old. Moreover, and perhaps more importantly, enumerated in the Census record immediately adjacent to David ROPER in the Cumberland, KY, 1820 Census is the household of a Daniel MURLEY, age 26 to 44, show is shown to have three daughters age 10 to 15 and two daughters under age ten. It seems quite plausible that this Daniel MURLEY or a brother might have had a daughter named "Hannah" of marriageable age in 1818 when John C. ROPER was likely to have been married. Both a Daniel and a William MURLEY are enumerated in Cumberland County, Kentucky, in the 1830 Census enumeration. There is also a MULKEY family shown in the Missouri records, but some MURLEY researchers seem to believe that the MURLEY name might have been mangled en route from Kentucky to Missouri. I do NOT have a view as to whether this is the case, but find it singularly coincidental that George ROPER would think his grandmother's maiden name was MULKEY and that his great uncle would have a Daniel MURLEY as an immediate neighbor. (I have long doubted the published assertions by many family historians that John C. ROPER married Hannah when she was age 11 in 1813, but then waited six years to have their first child.) The assertion that Hannah's maiden name was MARTIN appears within the History of Laclede County, Missouri. John C. ROPER's death certificate is currently posted at the Missouri State website at this link: http://www.sos.mo.gov/images/archives/deathcerts/1914/1914_00025776.PDF Perhaps those with a keen interest in this family can revisit their sources and ascertain the basis for the ascription of MARTIN as Hannah's maiden name. My FEAR is that this will turn out to be another erroneous GUESS based solely on the middle name of John C. ROPER's first child. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.2.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I mentioned that George W. Roper married Agness Harris in 1806 in Davidson County, TN, where Allen C.Yates was the bondsmen. I then showed the connection between an Allen C. Yates, who sold property in 1805 in Caswell, NC, and John Roper, Allen C. Yates' adjacent neighbor. I also mentioned that Allen C. Yates was the bondsman to another couple, Amos Caldwell and Sarah Dodson: 'Sarah DODSON, m 14 Aug 1809, Maury Co, TN, Amos CALDWELL, Allen C. YATES'." I then mentioned the following: "John Roper can be seen residing between a John Caldwell and an Allen Caldwell in the 1782 Halifax, VA Personal Tax List. John Yates is also nearby. There are only three Caldwells shown in the 1782 Halifax Personal Tax List: the John Caldwell and Allen Caldwell mentioned residing next to John Roper, and a David Caldwell. Amos Caldwell apparently was the son of John Caldwell, who was probably residing next to John Roper as shown in the 1782 Halifax Personal Tax List. Ancestry.com has the following transcribed document which was printed in the Virginia Genealogical Society Quarterly Vol. 29 Number 2. Halifax County Guardian Bonds...: "23 Oct 1797 David Caldwell, Gdn of George, Salley & John Caldwell, orph. of John Caldwell, dec'd. Henry Cook, William Caldwell, Allen Caldwell, Jr. & John Terry, Sec. Bond $3,000. Wm. Owen, John Wilson Jr., Henry E. Coleman, & Theo Carter, Gent. Justices. A. Watlington Jr. Wit. 23 Oct. 1797 David Caldwell, Gdn. of Amos Caldwell, orph of John Caldwell, dec'd. Bond $1,000. [Security, Gent. Justices & Wit. same as above.]" John Roper, when he moved to Caswell, NC, was also residing adjacent to David Caldwell of Halifax, VA: "O:186: David Caldwell of Halifax Co. VA to Josiah Samuel for $100 50 acres on Country Line Cr adj. John Roper, Thomas Boulton, John Rogers, William Yates, said land dower of Catherine Yates widow of John Yates decd. 1 Nov 1805 Wit: Durrett Richards, Jno Stanfield, James Dix, John Roper." L. David Roper database. This David Caldwell of Halifax County Virginia would be the guardian of Amos Caldwell. Amos Caldwell would have known Allen Yates in Caswell, NC, before he moved to Maury County, TN, where he married Sarah Dobson in 1809. Amos Caldwell can be seen in several Maury County census records, the most important of which is the 1850 Maury County, TN census. Amos is shown as age 69, born about 1781 in Virginia. There is a Sarah Caldwell, age 36, born about 1814 in Virginia, and a William H. Caldwell, age 39, born about 1811 in Tennessee. Living next door to Amos Caldwell is David A. Caldwell, age 22, born about 1828 in Tennessee, with his young family. Living next to David A. Caldwell, on the next page of the census, is a Ruth Caldwell, age 48, born about 1802 in NC, with no husband, and four daughters age 7 through 13, all born in Tennessee. Allen C. Yates, acting as the bondsmen for both George Roper and Amos Caldwell, and the proximity of all of these individuals to John Roper of Caswell, NC, further strengthens the evidence that George W. Roper of Williamson, TN was a son of John Roper. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Owen Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.3.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The place of birth of George ROPER (b abt 1788, d 08 Sep 1866 - IL) has been generally believed to be NORTH CAROLINA. The 1850 and 1860 Census enumerations each show this George ROPER as being born in North Carolina. In 1850, George ROPER, age 61, is enumerated residing within the household of his son James M. ROPER, age 18. George is shown in the record to be born in North Carolina, but the fact that James M. ROPER is shown to be the head of the household may reflect that James ROPER was the person who answered the questions for the enumerator. Seth ROPER, James ROPER's half-brother is shown to be residing in the adjacent household. In 1860, George ROPER, age 72, is shown to be residing in a household consisting of himself, Rachal [sic] ROPER, age 65, and Louis ROPER, age 12. Again George ROPER is shown to be born in North Carolina. David ROPER, age 35, is shown to reside in the adjacent household. * However, within the 1880 Census enumeration of Seth ROPER, shown to be age 70 and born in North Carolina, and widely believed to be George ROPER's eldest son, Seth shows his father's birthplace as SOUTH CAROLINA. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MXK6-RVZ : accessed 20 Apr 2014), Seth Roper, Douglas, Saline, Illinois, United States; citing sheet 50A, NARA microfilm publication T9. * Generally, I give greater weight to the representations made to the Census enumerator while a person is LIVING than to the data furnished after a person is already dead. But the eldest son from the first marriage, who migrated with his father from North Carolina, might very well have a different fund of knowledge about the father's past than his younger siblings born in Illinois. I am NOT suggesting that this one anomalous contrary mention ought to cause us to change the ascription. But taken together with a possible marriage record in Georgia, it seems to me that we should at least revisit the primary data and carefully assess whether there is any reason to believe that the South Carolina birthplace might be correct. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Owen Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1898.3.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In reviewing my notes regarding the early George ROPERs, I had at some time highlighted the existence of a known marriage of a George ROPER to an Elizabeth OWEN taking place on 15 Jan 1807 in Baldwin, GA. See: "Georgia, Marriages, 1808-1967," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FW3V-FZ2 : accessed 20 Apr 2014), George Roper and Elizabeth Owen, 15 Jan 1807; citing Baldwin, Baldwin, Georgia; FHL microfilm 415153. I thought that this marriage might be significant because there were SO FEW George ROPERs in that period and I hadn't seen a George ROPER appearing in the other early records in the deep South. Moreover, the identity of the first wife of George ROPER (b abt 1788 - NC, d 08 Sep 1866 - IL) seems to still be unknown. As I understand it, Seth ROPER (b abt 1810-11 - NC) was the eldest son of George ROPER (b abt 1788 - NC, d 08 Sep 1866 - IL). The George ROPER - Elizabeth OWEN marriage is therefore about the right time to be a first marriage of George ROPER (b abt 1788 - NC, d 08 Sep 1866 - IL). I have NOT found ANY OTHER George ROPER who would seem to be a good candidate to be the groom shown in this marriage. THIS IS NOT AN ASCRIPTION, BUT RATHER A SUGGESTED AVENUE OF FURTHER INQUIRY. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Gantt, Fell, May, Rainsford, Longstreet Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1880.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In previous posts, I have shown that Elizabeth Adams ROPER was Daniel ROPER's widow and that she subsequently married Thomas MASTERS. However, I overlooked calling attention to this abstracted records, which also nicely laces up and confirms the inferences which can be made from the Drury ADAMS Will and extant Census records. Dave ROPER shows this abstract at his South Carolina Roper Family page, citing Edgefield County South Carolina Deed Books 39 and 40 abstracted by Carol Wells 2006: "Richard Gantt to Elizabeth Roper et al. For one hundred dollars, Richard Gantt sold to Elizabeth Roper, widow, and Goodwin, John, William, Mary A, Elizabeth, children of Danl Roper, deceased, the moiety of a tract of land held by Richard Gantt, originally to William W. Fell but my bond for title to sd Fell set p.94 over to Stephen May and Daniel Roper now both dedc, on waters of Horns Creek joining the moiety of sd tract now belonging to the representatives of Stephen May, deceased, and on lands owned by Thomas Rainsford, Jas Longstreet, containing one hundred thirty acres. 10 March 1821. /s/ Richard Gantt. Wit: /s/ William Nivvs, /s/ Christian Breithaupt." See: http://www.roperld.com/rsc18.htm * * * Note that this record confirms Elizabeth as Daniel ROPER's widow, shows that this Daniel ROPER was already dead at 10 Mar 1821 (thereby confirming the information in the Ryan Journal and the 1820 Census record), and IDENTIFIES Daniel and Elizabeth ROPER's children: Goodwin ROPER (b abt 1816-20) John ROPER (b abt 1816-20) William ROPER (b abt 1810 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) Mary A. ROPER (b abt 1810-20) Elizabeth ROPER (b abt 1810-20) * We KNOW from William ROPER's (b abt 1810 - SC, d 07 Feb 1892 - Forsyth County, GA) 's 1850, 1860 and 1870 Census records that he is born about 1809. But we also think that perhaps he had been confused about or persistently fudging his age a little on the high side, since he doesn't appear in Daniel ROPER's 1810 Census record. Note that we also know the age distribution of these children from Elizabeth ROPER's 1820 Census record: Elizabeth ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 2 -- 3 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1820] Taken at face value, Elizabeth ROPER's Census return seems incompatible both with the count of children, both male and female, and with William ROPER's age. There is one too few boy and one two few girls. It is also somewhat difficult to reconcile William ROPER's 1850, 1860 and 1870 Census data, which suggests he was born about 1809, with the 1810 data for Daniel showing NO CHILDREN and the 1820 Census enumeration showing ONLY two boys under age 5. While it is easy to imagine that if William was born in 1810 AFTER the Census enumeration that he might exaggerate his age by a year or even two. But it is somewhat more difficult to imagine that Elizabeth erroneously told the Census enumerator that a nine or ten year old boy was under age five. It seems somewhat more likely that young William had moved in with an uncle or grandparent as his mother struggled to cope with her household of youngsters as a widow. If William was actually age nine or ten, then the children shown in the deed must NOT have been listed in age order. Note that this record also lists only ONE daughter for Elizabeth ROPER, a child under age 5. There are two possibilities. One is that an older daughter, closer in age to William, had also been syndicated out to an aunt, uncle or grandparent. Alternatively, Elizabeth could have been pregnant with her fifth child when Daniel ROPER died on 17 Jul 1819. The latter presupposes that the 1820 Census enumeration was completed by about April 1820. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Smith, Moody Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have seen several ROPER family historians with otherwise credible information about this ROPER family who seem to have concluded that Nancy ROPER's maiden name might have been either "Nancy SMITH" or "Nancy MOODY". However, I have NOT seen any specific primary evidence, analysis or argument in favor of this ascription. Perhaps there is substantive evidence in support of either of these ascriptions. I would be very interested in learning about the nature or such evidence, if any evidence exists. Even if this is merely a speculative ascription, I would be interested in hearing the reasoning in support of the assertion that Nancy was a "MOODY" or a "SMITH". * Interestingly, George W. ROPER, of Roper's Knob, Williamson County, TN, named a son "Moody", so there is at least some indication of a possible close connection between the ROPER and MOODY families which seems not to have been fully explored. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: By following John and Nancy ROPER's children forward in time to the 1880 Census, we can garner some additional clues about John and Nancy ROPER's places of birth and origin. GENEALOGICAL INFORMATION GARNERED FROM 1880 CENSUS RECORDS OF THE CHILDREN Six of John and Nancy ROPER's children survived to the date of the 1880 Census enumeration: Yewel ROPER (b 16 Sep 1813 - TN) William M. ROPER (b 16 Nov 1816 - TN) John H. ROPER (b 27 Jan 1819 - TN) Sarah Roper HARDIN (b 22 Mar 1823 - TN) Nancy J. Roper LONG (b 08 Mar 1823 - TN) Margaret A. Roper BREEDLOVE (b 17 Jan 1825 - TN) * Yewall ROPER was enumerated in 1880 residing in the household of his son-in-law M. TSCHUDI in Aberdeen, Monroe County, Mississippi. He is shown to be age 64 and to have been born in Tennessee, however his father's and mother's birthplace is NOT given in this record. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M4G5-BDL : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Gemel Roper in household of M Tschudi, Aberdeen, Monroe, Mississippi, United States; citing sheet 232C, NARA microfilm publication T9. * William ROPER, shown to be age 63, is enumerated with wife Mary K., age 46, and his family in Clinton, Texas, Missouri, in 1880. His father is shown to have been born in North Carolina and his mother to have been born in South Carolina. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M6NF-4DH : accessed 19 Apr 2014), William Roper, Clinton, Texas, Missouri, United States; citing sheet 313B, NARA microfilm publication T9. * John H. ROPER, shown to be age 61, is enumerated with wife Nancy I. ROPER, age 55, and granddaughter Ella GREEN, residing in Mountain Grove, Wright County, MO, in 1880. John H. ROPER shows his father to be born in South Carolina and his mother to be born in South Carolina. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M6NV-LK8 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), John H Roper, Mountain Grove, Wright, Missouri, United States; citing sheet 506B, NARA microfilm publication T9. * Sarah (Roper) HARDIN, shown to be age 57 and widowed, is enumerated with son Joseph W. HARDIN, age 20, in the 1880 Census, residing in Clinton, Texas County, MO. Sarah HARDIN shows her parents to have both been born in South Carolina. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M6NF-48N : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Sarah Hardin, Clinton, Texas, Missouri, United States; citing sheet 313B, NARA microfilm publication T9. * Nancy J. (Roper) LONG, shown to be age 55, is enumerated with her husband William A. LONG, age 57 and born in Georgia, and children, J. Avery LONG, age 21, and Benjamin S. LONG, age 17, residing in Milford, Ellis County, Texas, in 1880. Both children are shown to be born in Texas. Nancy's father is shown to be born in North Carolina and her mother is shown to be born in Tennessee. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MFN7-JL5 : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Nancy J Long in household of William A Long W, Milford, Ellis, Texas, United States; citing sheet 519A, NARA microfilm publication T9. * Margaret A. (Roper) BREEDLOVE, shown to be age 52, is enumerated with her husband Milton BREEDLOVE, and four children, residing in La Fayette, Scott, Arkansas, in 1880. Margaret's parents are both shown to be born in South Carolina. See: "United States Census, 1880," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MNWG-RSX : accessed 19 Apr 2014), Margarett Breedlove in household of Milton Breedlove, La Fayette, Scott, Arkansas, United States; citing sheet 424C, NARA microfilm publication T9. * * To summarize, the children report their parent's places of birth as: Francis: NOT GIVEN William: North Carolina / South Carolina John H.: South Carolina / South Carolina Sarah: South Carolina / South Carolina Nancy: North Carolina / Tennessee Margaret: South Carolina / South Carolina * * * JOHN ROPER's BIRTHPLACE I have NOT yet succeeded in locating John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788) in the 1860 Census. The BEST indication of John ROPER's birthplace is shown in the 1850 Census record. This is shown to be North Carolina. While THREE of the five children who survived to 1880 reported that their father was born in South Carolina rather than North Carolina, in my view the report during John ROPER's lifetime must be given the greatest weight. Also, we know that there was a significant migration of ROPERs from Virginia and North Carolina into the upper South Carolina counties from about 1790 to 1810. There were far FEWER ROPER households in South Carolina than in North Carolina at John ROPER's date of birth. The migration may also help explain WHY the children are reporting South Carolina as John ROPER's birthplace. My suspicion is that John ROPER was BORN in North Carolina, but that his parents then migrated to South Carolina when John was still young. This suggests that John ROPER's father may be found amongst the earliest ROPER settlers of upper South Carolina. * * * NANCY ROPER's BIRTHPLACE Since Nancy ROPER died before the 1850 Census, the only clues to her birthplace are those given in the 1880 Census returns of her children. Since four of the five children who identified their parent's birthplaces identified Nancy's place of birth as South Carolina, this seems to be the consensus answer. That three of Nancy's children also thought their father was from South Carolina seems to further suggest some presence in South Carolina and that John and Nancy may have even married there. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>