This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Brown Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In assessng the marriage of Richard BROWN and Margaret ROPER and considering the possible ascription of this Margaret ROPER as James and Margaret ROPER's granddaughter, I neglected to do the OBVIOUS, which was to LOCATE the 1870 Census record of Richard and Margaret ROPER. There is a couple Richard BROWN, age 34, and Margaret BROWN, age 32, shown to be residing in District 2, Jefferson County, Tennessee, in 1870. It seems MOST LIKELY that this couple, which includes one child, William TINE, age 1, is probably the newly married (24 Sep 1869) couple shown in the marriage record cited. Richard BROWN is a shown to be a blacksmith. THIS COUPLE IS SHOWN TO BE BLACK AND IS THEREFORE THIS MARGARET ROPER IS UNLIKELY TO BE JAMES ROPER'S GRANDDAUGHTER. Margaret BROWN's age also does NOT correspond to the age of Margaret ROPER in the 1850 and 1860 Census (1 and 12, respectively). James ROPER's granddaughter would have been about 21 or 22. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth, McLemore Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1.1.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I want to explicitly add what ought to be already implicit from a careful reading of my prior posts, but especially my recent post: "The John S. ROPER Mentioned in the Prior Post is Probably John S. RAPER" (9 Aug 2014 7:29PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1925.3/mb.ashx I had previously taken the 1850 Census data at FACE VALUE and inferred that the Mary ROPER shown in James and Margaret ROPER's household was their ROPER surnamed daughter-in-law rather than assuming either (a) that Mary ROPER was UNMARRIED and had conceived the children John and Margaret out of wedlock OR (b) that there was an ERROR in the identification of the surname of Mary ROPER and her children. However, the discovery that the marriage record I had taken to be that of James and Margaret ROPER's otherwise unidentified son seems likely to be that of John S. RAPER, it is very important to understand that there is essentially NO OTHER EVIDENCE identified to date that would seem to conclusively establish that James ROPER's son married and had any children at all. This is NOT to say that there is any conclusive proof that he didn't leave James ROPER's household a little early and, perhaps, marry elsewhere. See my post: "Possible Candidates To Be James ROPER's Unidentified Son (b abt 1821-5 - TN)" (9 Aug 2014 11:37PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1925.4/mb.ashx Various candidates to be the unidentified son should be carefully assessed and correctly ascribed, where possible. It is even possible that John S. RAPER is even a ROPER, though given the persistence of the showing in the Census, this seems to me to be UNLIKELY. But IF John S. RAPER WAS to be a ROPER, it actually DOES NOT GREATLY ALTER the dynamic as to the correct identity of the Mary ROPER living in the James ROPER household in 1850. * * * The seeming mis-ascription of John S. RAPER as a ROPER gave us TWO now seemingly erroneous clues as to Mary ROPER's possible ascription. First, John S. RAPER married a "Mary Ann". Thus, the appearance of a Mary ROPER in James ROPER's hosuehold could be readily explained as a widow of the now seemingly mis-ascribed son. Second, I couldn't find this John S. ROPER in the subsequent Census enumerations, though I probably wasn't looking for him hard enough given the ex ante suggestion that he had probably died leaving a widow and small children. Thus, based upon these two false clues, I had suggested that Mary ROPER was John S. "ROPER"'s widow and then concluded that the young James ROPER shown to be age 8 had probably exagerated his age. This latter conclusion was necessary in order to explain away the seeming anomaly that James ROPER, age 8, seemed to be TOO OLD to be explained by the marriage of John S. ROPER and Mary Ann ROBESON. However, since James A. ROPER is shown to be age 18 in 1860, we are presented with a second piece of primary evidence which would seem to CONFIRM the age given in 1850 rather than affording us a basis to discount it. We are left with essentially NO EVIDENCE that Mary ROPER was James ROPER's daughter-in-law and several clues, including the presence of Margaret ROPER in the McLEMORE household in 1860, which are far more consistent with Mary being James and Margaret's daughter. There are still a couple of other discordant notes seemingly inconsistent with this construction. One of these is the misascription of the surnames of the children in BOTH the 1850 and 1860 Census returns. One mistake seems easy to explain. Two mistakes seems hard to explain. Possibly more troubling is the marriage record showing the marriage of a Margaret ROPER to Richard BROWN on 24 Sep 1869: "Marriage of Margaret ROPER to Richard BROWN on 24 Sep 1869 Noted" (10 Jun 2014 10:47AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1925.1/mb.ashx Even if the Census enumerator were to incorrectly record Margaret as a ROPER rather than an AINSWORTH, it seems far less likely that this error would also appear within a more deliberately prepared marriage record. * * * There seem to be several possible explanations, none of which is conclusive, but each of which gives us an additional avenue for inquiry. It should be initially noted that the gap between the ages of James ROPER, age 8, and Margaret ROPER, age 1, as shown in the 1850 Census seems a little large for those times. Children tended to appear with some regularity and in other circumstances a gap of this size very often suggested a death of a previous wife and the remarriage of the father. Given the seeming conclusion that Mary ROPER's husband William AINSWORTH had either died or abandoned her, one is then left to wonder whether the death shortly followed the conception of James or whether William AINSWORTH also survived to conceive Margaret ROPER (b abt 1849). But if William AINSWORTH had died well before 1848, this would suggest that Margaret might have been conceived out of wedlock. But there is yet another possibility that is somewhat more harmonious with the extant data, which could also help explain the source of the confusion as to surnames in both the 1850 and the 1860 Census. This is the possibility that James and Margaret ROPER's son DID survive to have a child, but that he married a little later. Thus, John ROPER, age 8, could have been John AINSWORTH, son of William AINSWORTH and Mary ROPER, while Margaret ROPER, age 1, could have been the daughter of the as of yet unidentified ROPER son and a woman who died very young, probably in childbirth. If this were the case, James and Margaret ROPER would have had a Mary AINSWORTH, a James AINSWORTH and a Margaret ROPER residing in their household, certainly confusing for the Census enumerator. Within the McLEMORE household, there would have been present Mary (Roper) McLEMORE, James AINSWORTH, age 8, Margaret ROPER, age 18, and Margaret ROPER, age 55-60. Under this construction ONLY James AINSWORTH's name would have been erronoeusly given in the 1860 Census and again the identities would have been quite vexing for the Census enumerator. This also harmonizes the identification of Margaret ROPER in the marriage record to Richard BROWN. It should be borne in mind that even if Mary AINSWORTH had given birth to Margaret out of wedlock, after her marriage to William AINSWORTH, the child's name would have been more properly Margaret AINSWORTH than Margaret ROPER. Thus, the out of wedlock theory cannot explain how Margaret is shown to be a ROPER on the marriage record, while the theory that Margaret is NOT Mary (Roper) AINSWORTH's daughter does explain this anomaly. * * * I would further suggest some additional avenues of investigation (and these are very tentative and unresearched possibilities). There are several other Tennessee male ROPER marriages that might have produced a child named Margaret: Joseph ROPER m Elizabeth COX on 30 Dec 1840 in Carroll, TN Joshua ROPER m Nancy STEGALL on 20 Jun 1844 in Fayette, TN William D. ROPER m Mary E. HARRIS on 05 Jan 1842 in Lincoln, TN Marcus L. ROPER m Elizabeth M. ATKINS on 24 Dec 1844 in Marshall, TN George W. ROPER m Nancy SCOTT on 05 Jul 1845 in Williamson, TN John ROPER m Catty or Celly EDWARDS on 06 May 1847 in Carroll, TN James ROPER m Ann M. WEST on 25 May 1848 in Hardeman County, TN G. L. ROPER m. Margaret A. BOWDEN on 13 Jul 1848 in Henry County, TN Jediah ROPER m E. J. MASSEY on 17 Jul 1848 in Carroll, TN Secondary sources have ascribed and studied several of these contemporary ROPERs. However, you should NOT treat the work of ANY OTHER ROPER researchers with great deference, since there has been a shocking amount of sloppy, incompetent and dishonest work done by ROPER genealogists over the past two decades. I am NOT saying that any particular ascription as to any of these is known or believe to be in error. Rather, I am simply pointing out that if the ascriptions are correct, they can usually be quickly verified relying upon valid primary evidence, but when the ascriptions are unsupported or fraudulent, this often quickly become evident by simple verification. In respect of EACH marriage, the question would seem to me to be the presence of each couple in the 1850 Census. If the couple SURVIVED and the indicated groom is heading his own household, then he would NOT likely be Margaret ROPER's father. By contrast, ANY of these ROPER grooms who simply disappears might be a more viable candidate to be Margaret ROPER's father. * * * Finally, I would encourage you to FOLLOW Margaret Roper BROWN forward in time and try to track her family FORWARD. Margaret may be the very best lead to the correct ascription of members of the James ROPER family. Similarly, the youngest members of the McLEMORE family are seemingly children of Mary ROPER. Since Margaret ROPER lived in the McLEMORE household, Mary (Roper) McLEMORE would seem to be the best prospect at finding an extant family Bible, correspondence or some family lore that confirms the identity of members of Mary ROPER's family. Mary McLEMORE seems to have predeceased her husband, so she may NOT have left a Will. However, if Mary McLEMORE directly inherited some separate property from James or Margaret ROPER, it is at least possible that there is some probate record that bears on James AINSWORTH. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, McNally Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As noted in the original post above, James and Margaret ROPER seem to have had a son [or at least a male age 5 to 9 (b abt 1821-5)] residing in their household in 1830. Given the errors in identification of age in the Census, I have slightly opened up this age range to identify candidates, as shown below. These ROPERs are shown in the 1850 Census to have been born in Tennessee and in the age range 22 to 32 (b abt 1818-28): Philip ROPER, age 32, of Blount, AL John H. ROPER, age 31, of Wright, MO E. L. ROPER,, age 30, of Washington, MS Thomas ROPER, age 30, of Stewart, TN Wiley B. ROPER, age 30, of Giles, TN William ROPER, age 30, of Greene, MO John Y. ROPER, age 28, of Sumner, TN G. W. ROPER, age 27, of Trinity, CA James C. ROPER, age 27, of Giles, TN George W. ROPER, age 26, of Williamson, TN Marcus L. ROPER, age 25, of Stewart, TN (PLACE of birth NOT GIVEN in 1850) James ROPER, age 26, of Shelby, TN John T. ROPER, age 26, of Perry, TN Thompson ROPER, age 23, of Stewart, TN George ROPER, age 22, of Pope, AR * Philip ROPER (b abt 1818) seems to be too old to be the unknown son (b abt 1821-5) of James and Margaret ROPER. The John H. ROPER shown is KNOWN to be John Henry ROPER (b 27 Jan 1819), son of John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863), of Greene and Pulaski Counties, Missouri. Wiley B. ROPER's age seems to be understated in the 1850 Census record. This is almost certainly Wiley B. ROPER (b 12 Jun 1814 - TN, d 24 Nov 1897 - MO). Wiley's appearance in Greene County, MO, in 1860, is suggestive of a possible family connection to the family of James ROPER, John ROPER and David ROPER, of Monroe-Blount-McMinn, TN. However, Wiley seems to be much too old to be the child of age 5 to 9 (b abt 1821-5) shown in James ROPER's 1840 Census record. William ROPER (b abt 1820), of Greene, MO, is almost certainly William F. ROPER (b 10 May 1819 - TN), son of David ROPER (b abt 1791 - SC, d aft 1870), of Greene County, MO. John Y. ROPER (b abt 1822) is believed to be the son of John Y. and Sarah ROPER, of Sumner, TN. James C. ROPER, age 27, of Giles, TN, is James C. ROPER (b 28 Mar 1923), the one child ascribed to David Y. ROPER and Dionysia (Abernathy) ROPER about whom we have reasonable confidence, since his mother resided in his household in 1850 and he was expressly named in his mother's Will. George W. ROPER (b abt 1824), of Williamson, TN, is believed to be the son of George ROPER, of Williamson. George ROPER (b abt 1828), of Pope, AR, and Thompson ROPER (b abt 1827), of Stewart, TN, seem to be too young to be the unknown son (b abt 1821-5) of James and Margaret ROPER. * * * This would seem to slightly narrow the list of possible candidates from 1850 to: E. L. ROPER,, age 30, of Washington, MS Thomas ROPER, age 30, of Stewart, TN G. W. ROPER, age 27, of Trinity, CA James ROPER, age 26, of Shelby, TN John T. ROPER, age 26, of Perry, TN Marcus L. ROPER, age 25, of Stewart, TN There are probably a handful of other candidates whom I haven't successfully identified based upon the 1850 Census. It is also possible that the ABSENCE of the male from James ROPER's household in 1840 may simply reflect that the son died young. But it was not at all uncommon for young men to leave home and go to live with a friend or relative. * * * * * Looking at a list of candidates again based upon the 1860 Census, we have the following shown to be born in Tennessee from 1818 to 1828: William ROPER, age 42, of Clinton, Texas County, MO [William F. ROPER (b 10 May 1819 - TN)] John H. ROPER, age 41, of Clinton, Texas County, MO [John Henry ROPER (b 27 Jan 1819 - TN)] Joel D. ROPER, age 40, of Williamson, TN [Joel D. ROPER (b 21 Mar 1821 - Dinwiddie, VA, d abt 1902), son of David W. ROPER (abt 1795-1800 - Dinwiddie, VA, d 11 Feb 1840 - Williamson Co., TN)] Thomas ROPER, age 40, of Stewart, TN William ROPER, age 40, of Saline, IL John Y. ROPER, age 39, of Sumner, TN [son of John Y. and Sarah ROPER, of Sumner, TN] J. C. ROPER, age 38, of Liberty, St Francois, MO [This is James C. ROPER (b 28 Mar 1923), previously found in Giles, TN] David T. ROPER, age 37, of New Madrid, MO George ROPER, age 37, of Todd, KY [George W. ROPER (b abt 1824), previously of Williamson, TN] J. Y. ROPER, age 37, of Gibson, TN James W. ROPER, age 36, of Talladega, AL George ROPER, age 35, of Delaware, Yell, AR M. L. ROPER, age 35, of Maury, TN [Marcus L. ROPER, formerly of Stewart, TN] J. H. ROPER, age 32, of Atchison, KS * * We can therefore rationalize this list from 1860 to: Thomas ROPER, age 40, of Stewart, TN William ROPER, age 40, of Saline, IL David T. ROPER, age 37, of New Madrid, MO J. Y. ROPER, age 37, of Gibson, TN James W. ROPER, age 36, of Talladega, AL George ROPER, age 35, of Delaware, Yell, AR M. L. ROPER, age 35, of Maury, TN J. H. ROPER, age 32, of Atchison, KS Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Pettypool, Walters, Webb Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/415.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As noted within the above post, one of Francis Yewell ROPER's daughters was named Beaddie Annis ROPER or something like that. Within the 1860 Census, this daughter is shown as Bedianis ROPER, age 5. Her father is shown as Ewel ROPER, age 48, and the family is residing in Prairie, Carroll County, Arkansas. Ewel is the spelling variant shown in the Blount County, TN, militia list in 1814. This Ewel ROPER may have been John and David ROPER's brother and the uncle of Francis Yewell or Ewel ROPER. * * * In 1870, the daughter is shown as Bida A. ROPER, age 15. That year, Bida ROPER is enumerated with her parents residing in Wright County, Missouri. Inexplicably, Ewel is shown as "N. L. ROPER". * * * In 1880, Ewel ROPER's daughter is shown as Beady WALTERS, age 24, residing with her father and son in her brother-in-law's household in Aberdeed, Monroe County, MS. * * * In 1900, the name is shown as "Beady" when Beady WEBB is enumerated in Amory, Monroe County, Mississippi, with husband Alphonso "Fonzo" WEBB, age 49. Beady WEBB is shown to have been born in Sep 1855. * * * I found this name to be interesting because of the appearance of the somewhat unusual name Biddy / Biddie in prior generations of the Virginia and North Carolina ROPER family. In particular, Jesse ROPER, son of Charles ROPER, seems to have been married to an Obedience of Biddy ROPER. The given name Biddy then also appeared within a couple of generations of this branch of the ROPER family. I have NOT seen a primary record that shows the name to be "Beaddie Annis", but this variant is not at all inconsistent with the four primary records shown above. No doubt the Census enumerator had difficulty with the name. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Raper, Ainsworth Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In my original post within this thread, I had noted what was shown to be the marriage of a John S. ROPER: "John S. ROPER is shown to have married Mary Ann ROBESON on 28 Sep 1843 in McMinn, Tennessee (marriage license dated 27 Sep 1843). Rev. John SCRUGGS performed the ceremony. See: "Tennessee, County Marriages, 1790-1950," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9814-4923-58?cc=1... : accessed 10 Jun 2014), 004539034 > image 61 of 1389. This seems reasonably consistent with a young man who was born abt 1821-5, as found in James ROPER's household in 1830, since this young man would have therefore been age 18 to 22 in 1843. Mary Ann ROBESON seems most likely to be a daughter of either the widow Elizabeth ROBISON [Image 1] or of Thomas ROBISON [Image 89], of McMinn, TN, each of whom had daughters of a marriageable age in 1840. Neither of these seems immediately proximate to James ROPER's hosuehold, but if John S. ROPER is the young man shown in the 1830 Census record, he had already left home by 1840." * Noting the presence of a Mary ROPER residing within the household of James and Margaret ROPER, I had inferred that this Mary ROPER was probably the widow of John S. ROPER and accordingly made only a cursory search for subsequent records reflecting John S. ROPER and Mary Ann ROBESON. For that matter, I ASSUMED that the James ROPER residing within James and Margaret ROPER's household in 1850 was probably somewhat exagerating his age, shown to be age 8. However, James ROPER's age is shown as 18 in the 1860 Census. Upon the realization that the Mary ROPER shown in the 1850 Census record might actually be James ROPER's daughter, Mary (Roper) AINSWORTH, the widow of William AINSWORTH, rather than his daughter-in-law, I have made a renewed search for John S. ROPER. In so doing, I have reached the tentative conclusion that the indicated marriage record cited above is that of John S. RAPER rather than John S. ROPER. * There is an 1850 Census record for a John S. RAPER, age 29, and Mary A. RAPER, age 26, with a family of four, residing in the Bradley County, TN. The eldest son is William T. RAPER, age 6. The names -- John S. RAPER and Mary A. RAPER -- and the ages of the children are consistent with this couple being those who are shown to have married on 28 Sep 1843 in McMinn, TN. * This couple is again found residing in Tennessee, this time in Monroe County, in the 1860 Census. John RAPER is shown to be age 38 and Mary A. RAPER is shown to be age 36. * John RAPER, age 50, and Polly RAPER, age 47, are once again shown to be residing in Monroe County, in the 1870 Census. * John RAPER, age 58, and Mary A. RAPER, age 55, are again enumerated in 1880 Census residing in Monroe County. * * * It is perhaps noteworthy that this couple had a son named James. On the other hand, the four Census records seem to unmistakably say "RAPER" rather than "ROPER." This seems to leave us with ONE unidentified SON of James and Margaret ROPER (b abt 1821-5), as well as one unidentified daughter (b abt 1821-5). However, we do NOT know with any certainty the NAME of this young ROPER. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth, McLemore Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Mary ROPER's husband Joseph L. McLEMORE seems to be enumerated at age 66 as "J. L. McLEMORE, residing with his son and daughter in Loudon County, Tennessee. Mary Roper McLEMORE seems like to have died before 1880. I haven't found the 1870 Census record yet. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1685.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I posted a response to your more recent query in my thread about ROPER (b abt 1786 - NC) and Margaret McNally ROPER, of McMinn and Monroe, TN: "Is the James ROPER (b 1842 - TN) Enumerated in James ROPER's household REALLY James AINSWORTH?" (9 Aug 2014 3:52PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: There is another rather stark possiblity that must NOT be discounted and which, given the dates and facts, actually seems not simply plausible, but even perhaps LIKELY. This is the possibility that the James ROPER shown in the 1850 Census record of James and Margaret ROPER is the very James AINSWORTH that you seek! * Realize that I have ASSUMED that the Mary ROPER living in James ROPER's household in 1850 is his daughter-in-law. But there is certainly ANOTHER rather stark possibility and that this Mary may be James and Margaret ROPER's DAUGHTER. That is, we KNOW that a Mary ROPER married a William AINSWORTH. We also know that there is a person with the given name Mary living in James and Margaret ROPER's household. Here is the Census data again: United States Census -- 1850 District 12, Monroe, Tennessee [29 Oct 1850] James ROPER, age 64, , Male, Farmer, Born NC Margarett ROPER, age 50, Female, Born VA Mary ROPER, age 28, Female, Born Tn James ROPER, age 8, Male, Born Tn Margarett ROPER, age 1, Female, Born Tn In my post, I stated: "We can surmise from this Census record that James and Margaret ROPER are likely to be married to one another. Mary ROPER, age 28, seems likely to be a widowed daughter-in-law. The two grandchildren seem to be named for their grandparents. James ROPER has probably exaggerated his age, as children sometimes do." * * * Compare the 1860 Census record for Joseph McLEMORE: United States Census -- 1860 District 5, Roane, Tennessee Joseph L. McLEMORE, age 45, Laborer, born Tenneessee Mary McLEMORE, age 35, Female, born Tenneessee Archar A. McLEMORE, age 17, Male, Laborer, born Tenneessee Louesa [sic] McLEMORE, age 7, Female, born Tenneessee Isaabella T. McLEMORE, age 4, Female, born Tenneessee Albert W. Y. McLEMORE, age 1/12, Male, born Tenneessee Margaret ROPER, age 12, Female, born Tenneessee James A. ROPER, age 18, Male, born Tenneessee Margaret ROPER, age 55, Female, born Virginia * * * Suppose that William and Mary Roper AINSWORTH named their first child after his maternal grandfather, thus James R. [possibly ROPER] AINSWORTH. Further suppose that a later child is named for his grandmother, Margaret (McNally) ROPER. Further suppose that William AINSWORTH DIED (or was simply ELSEWHERE) in 1850. It seems quite plausible to me that the Census enumerator simply got the SURNAME of Mary and the children WRONG. He might have simply neglected to ask. Later, Mary (Roper) AINSWORTH remarried Joseph L. McLEMORE. What name to show on the marriage record is always problematic. Should the maiden name be shown or the married name? Of course, Mary's children came along with her. They are again shown to be ROPERs. But they may have simply grown up in their grandparent's hosuehold and never really known their deceased father well. For that matter, the information may have been given to the Census enumerator by one of the children rather than by Mary Roper McLEMORE. Margaret McNally ROPER is also living in this McLEMORE household. Which is MORE natural? Would Margaret ROPER, at age 55, be living with her DAUGHTER or with a DAUGHTER-IN-LAW? While in the 1860 Census record, James is shown AGAIN as a ROPER rather than an AINSWORTH, note that his middle initial is given as an "A". The James ROPER shown in the 1850 Census record is very clearly the SAME James ROPER enumerated in 1860 residing in Joseph L. McLEMORE's household. He is shown as age 8 in 1850 and age 18 in 1860. I found NO TRACE of this James ROPER AFTER 1860. I assumed that he was probably a Civil War casualty. But if he was actually a James R. AINSWORTH, this would explain both the disappearance of James ROPER and the new appearance of James R. AINSWORTH in Missouri, harmonizing the data. * Under this possible construction, Mary Roper AINSWORTH and Francis Yewell ROPER would have been first cousins (ASSUMING that James ROPER and John ROPER are brothers). James R. AINSWORTH would have been John H. ROPER's second cousin. James AINSWORTH IS shown in this 1870 record to be born in Georgia. But he is PRECISELY TEN YEARS older than the James ROPER shown in the 1860 Census data. * * * What else do you know about this James AINSWORTH? Have you found other records for him before or after 1870? Have you found an 1880 or 1900 Census record? Do you know when and where this James AINSWORTH died? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The marriage you mention is that which I identified within this text of my original post "James ROPER (b abt 1786 - NC) and Margaret McNally ROPER, of McMinn and Monroe, TN" (James ROPER (b abt 1786 - NC) and Margaret McNally ROPER, of McMinn and Monroe, TN): "There was also a marriage between Mary ROPER and William AINSWORTH on 06 Aug 1841 in Monroe, TN. This might have been the female age 15 to 19 in 1840, though this is a somewhat more speculative ascription. (Another source gives the marriage date as 06 Jul 1842.)" This marriage is reflected in three index entries readily available at FamilySearch.org: "Tennessee, State Marriage Index, 1780-2002," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VN6D-9TL : accessed 09 Aug 2014), Wm Ainsworth and Mary Roper, 06 Jul 1842; citing "Tennessee State Marriages, 1780-2002," Ancestry.com; p. 256, Monroe, Tennessee, United States, State Library and Archives, Nashville. "Tennessee, State Marriage Index, 1780-2002," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VN6D-3RK : accessed 09 Aug 2014), William Ainsworth and Mary Roper, 06 Jul 1842; citing "Tennessee State Marriages, 1780-2002," Ancestry.com; p. 183, Monroe, Tennessee, United States, State Library and Archives, Nashville. "Tennessee, Marriages, 1796-1950," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XDQK-3QL : accessed 09 Aug 2014), William Ainsworth and Mary Roper, 06 Aug 1841; citing Monroe,Tennessee, reference ; FHL microfilm 956229, 956230. The underlying IMAGES of the primary document are NOT available at FamilySearch.org at this time. * * * Other than noting the TIME and PLACE of this marriage shown alternatively as taking place on 06 Aug 1841 or 06 Jul 1842, I have NO SPECIFIC information about WHERE Mary ROPER fits in the ROPER family, IF SHE IS, IN FACT A ROPER AT ALL. My SPECULATION is that she MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE DAUGTHER of the James ROPER (b abt 1786 - NC) and Margaret McNally ROPER identified in the original post. There is SOME evidence that might support such an ascription, though it is hardly conclusive. 1. James ROPER is shown to have daughters who would have likely been of marriageable age when Mary ROPER married. 2. By 1841, David ROPER and John ROPER, two other prior residents of Monroe County, TN, had already settled in Greene County, MO, so it is LESS LIKELY that a daughter of David or John ROPER returned to Monroe County to marry. Moreover, we KNOW the identity of John ROPER's children from his family Bible. However, it is NOT INCONCEIVABLE that a daugher of David ROPER could have returned to Tennessee to wed. 3. There was also a Ewell ROPER shown in the muster rolls for Blount County in the War of 1812. There seems to be no further record of him thereafter, but the appearance of the name "Yewell" in John ROPER's family suggests a close family connection. Since Ewell ROPER was old enough to serve in the militia in 1814, he probably was also old about the right age to be the father of a daughter who might marry in 1841. But there is simply NO RECORD of Ewell that has yet been identified which would show that he lived much beyond 1814 or that he ever married. Ewell cannot be catagorically excluded as a possible father of Mary ROPER, but there is really no evidence to support more than the bare possibility. 4. There was another ROPER family, that of Joseph ROPER, of Chesterfield, VA, and later of ALabama, who also passed through nearby McMinn County, TN. But he was settled in Alabama by the date of this marriage. 5. James ROPER, of McMinn and Monroe, TN, is the single best ROPER candidate KNOWN to still be present in or near Monroe in 1841 and KNOWN to have daughters of a marriageable age. Even so, there is yet another possibility that should NOT be discounted. There was also a RAPER family in Monroe, TN, and this RAPER clan lingered in Monroe after the onward migration of most of the ROPERs elsewhere. By sheer NUMBERS, Mary ROPER is every bit as likely to be a member of the RAPER family rather than the ROPER family. * I would suggest several avenues of investigation. I would encourage you to post queries at the RAPER, the AINSWORTH and the Monroe, Tennessee, RootsWeb Message Boards. If Mary is KNOWN to be a RAPER, the accomplished RAPER genealogists may ALREADY KNOW THIS and may be able to give some specific supporting information. Similarly, someone in the AINSWORTH family may already KNOW more about this couple, including the identity of their children, etc. Similarly, someone in Monroe County, TN, may have already studied this family. There is a William AINSWORTH enumerated in the 1840 Census residing in Monroe, TN. This William AINSWORTH is shown to be age 40 to 49 with a male age 15 to 19 and of the same age residing within his household. The age of the younger male is consistent with a son of marriageable age in 1841 or 1842. But the marriage may also be that of the elder AINSWORTH KNOWN to have the first name William. It is possibly noteworthy that there are STEPHENSONs and MILLERs shown on the very same Census page. These are surnames of families with whom John ROPER's daughters intermarried. * * * In 1850, William AINSWORTH seems to be GONE from Tennessee. In 1850, there is an AINSWORTH family in Montgomery, Tennessee, though nothing to conspicuously connect this family to William AINSWORTH, of Monroe. There is a William AINSWORTH, age 55, born North Carolina, shown to be residing within the household of a very wealthy Francis IRWIN, age 65, born in Ireland, in Cass County, Georgia. This William AINSWORTH is shown to be a "Horse Racer". There is also a William AINSWORTH, age 50, born abt 1800 in South Carolina, residing with Nancy AINSWORTH, age 29, born in Tennessee, and his family in Cedar, Missouri. ALL of the children, ranging in age from 1 to 16 are shown to be born in Missouri. Either of these might be the William AINSWORTH shown in the 1840 Census in Monroe, TN, however the large family of the latter seems at least inconsistent with the 1840 Census record. There was also a William AINSWORTH, age 30 to 39, enumerated in Grand River, Rives County, MO, in 1840, with a large family. There was also a William AINSWORTH enumerated in Howard County, MO, in 1830. Jesse ROPER was also in Howard County, MO, in 1830, but doesn't seem to have been in close proximity. There was also a William AINSWORTH, age 30 to 39, enumerated in Assumption Parish, Louisiana, in 1840. This was probably the William AINSWORTH shown to have married Rosella BROUSSARD in St. Mary Parish, Louisiana, in April 1830. * In 1860, there is a William AINSWORTH, age 66, born Tennessee, shown to be residing within the household of James W. TURNER, age 26, in Heard County, Georgia. It is UNCLEAR whether this is the William AINSWORTH shown to be age 40 to 49 in the 1840 Census enumeration, though he is of the correct age range. * * * In my view, IF this is an AINSWORTH - ROPER marriage, rather than an AINSWORTH - RAPER marriage, then I think it is at least mildly MORE LIKELY that Mary ROPER married a YOUNGER William AINSWORTH, possibly the young man age 15 to 19 enumerated within the 1840 Census record. This William AINSWORTH may have died young, leaving a widow and small family. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Swheeler1986 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/28.173.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: My Roper family descends from this line. There is a Roper Family Reunion that is coming up this next weekend in Oklahoma. Not sure if you are aware of it or not. If you would like more information, feel free to contact me. Staci Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kellietho Surnames: Ainsworth, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post! I truly appreciate it! I do not have definitive proof yet of any blood relation between my Ainsworth line and the Roper line, however, after looking over the wonderful research you have done, I believe there may be a blood relation between the two families somewhere. I will continue my search on the families, and will post anything that I might find. I did have another question, and you may have already answered this, but, do you know who the Mary Roper who married William Ainsworth was the daughter of? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Ainsworth Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I would encourage you to take a look at my thread: "John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863), of Greene and Pulaski Counties, Missouri" (19 Apr 2014 5:58PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1899/mb.ashx I posted quite a bit of information about the family of John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863), which I had studied at the request of a member of that branch of the family. The person with whom I had corresponded had also promised to post other information about this branch of the family, but after I spent many hours researching this branch of the family (which isn't even my branch of the family), that person never bothered to follow up and no one else seems to have any interest in this ROPER family. You will find that this John ROPER is the father of Yewell ROPER (b 16 Sep 1813 - TN). You will also find that I have identified the probable 1830 Census record for this John ROPER as having been in Monroe County, TN: "John ROPER's (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863) 1830 Census Record in Monroe County, TN" (23 Apr 2014 3:49AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1899.6/mb.ashx Within another thread, I discuss John ROPER, of Pendleton, SC, and identify this John ROPER as a possible father of John ROPER, of Greene County, as well as the father of James ROPER (b abt 1786 - NC): "John ROPER (b abt 1756-66), of Pendleton, SC" (7 Jun 2014 9:51PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1923/mb.ashx This should be treated as a speculative rather than a conclusive ascription. It would seem to me that your identification of a common connection between the ROPER and AINSWORTH families would tend to strengthen the inference that James ROPER and John ROPER are connected, possibly as brothers. Monroe or McMinn Counties might also be a common source of origin for the AINSWORTHs. I have not studied the AINSWORTH family. For the benefit of others, I would encourage you to share your findings about the AINSWORTH and ROPER connections within one of these threads. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: kellietho Surnames: Ainsworth, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1925.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hello! While reading your post, I noticed some information that makes me wonder if you might be able to help me in my search for a very elusive ancestor! I have been looking for the parents of a James R. Ainsworth, who was born in Tennessee around 1842. Through some research, I believe that I have narrowed his birthplace down to either Roane County, Tennessee or Monroe County, Tennessee. In the 1870 Census for Wright County, Missouri, he is living with a John Henry Roper and his wife, Laura (Green) Roper. After seeing that you mentioned a Mary Roper marrying a William Ainsworth, I wondered if there might be a connection to my James Ainsworth, especially since he ended up staying with a Roper family in Missouri. Here is a little bit of background on this John Henry Roper (maybe you know of a connection between him and Mary Roper who married William Ainsworth): *John Henry Roper was born 13 June 1840 to Francis Yewell Roper and Mary Pool. He was born in Missouri. *Francis Yewell Roper was born around 1813 in Tennessee to a John Henry Roper and Nancy Smith Do you happen to have any of these Roper names in your research? I would love to hear back from you! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1935/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Secondary sources on Ancestry.com state that Charles Roper, Jr. and Elizabeth Butler were the parents of Charles Roper, b. 23 May 1787, NC; died Oct 1870; m. Rachel Atkins. This is obviously incorrect for the simple reason that no such Charles Roper, b. 1787, is mentioned as a child of Charles Roper, Jr. and Elizabeth Butler in the Moore Family Bible. According to the Bible entries, Charles Roper, Jr. and Elizabeth Butler had two sons, one named Goodwyn Roper and the other named Joseph Roper. The Dinwiddie County Tax Lists from 1782-1824, showing a continuous presence of Charles Roper in that county until his death, are consistent with the entries in the Bible and inconsistent with Charles Roper being born in NC. However, Charles Roper, b. 23 1787, NC, may have been the son of Jesse Roper (b. 31 May 1751, d. bef 22 Jan 1810) and his wife Biddy. If this is true, then Charles Roper would have been the grandson of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn, who were the parents of Charles Roper, Jr. of Dinwiddie, VA. I rarely start from scratch when I begin researching a particular Roper family member. As usual, I am greatly indebted to William Alexander Roper, Jr. (WAR, Jr.) and his research on Jesse Roper, which was posted beginning on May 10, 2014 on the Roper-L Archives of Ancestry.com. The original post is titled" Jesse ROPER (b 31 May 1751, d bef. 22 Jan 1810), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN" and has a number of follow-up threads. We know that Charles Roper (b. 23 May 1787) came from North Carolina, because both his census records and his obituary state this fact. Some of his children state that he was born in South Carolina, but these children may be confused because Charles Roper possibly was in South Carolina for a period of time before arriving in Stewart County, TN. Charles Roper's obituary can be found on Ancestry.com. I cannot find anyone to acknowledge for originally posting the obituary. An A. J. Simer has been given credit as the author of the obituary: "Died at his residence in Stewart CO., Tn., on the 10th, Mr. Roper in the 83rd year of his age. He is no more; he has passed from time to eternity. Truly may it be said of him, that he died the death of the righteous. He expoused the Christian religion, and attached himself to the Methodist Episcopal Church about 58 years ago, and if it can be said of any now, he was an israelite in whom there was no guile. While his eleven living children feel deeply his loss, they rejoice in the full assurance that their loss is his gain, and that he has gone to join their angel mother who died February 4, 1867, and their sainted brothers and sisters, who we have reason to believe are now basking in the eternal Sunshine around the throne of God. He was born in the State of North Carolina, May 23, 1787, and emigrated to Tennessee in 1808. He was married to Rachael Atkins, February 10, 1810. From the date of his marriage to that of his death, he lived in this County. He leaves a large circle of acquaintances besides his numerous relatives who mourn his loss. He was one of the settlers of this County. He served under General Jackson, in the War of 1812, was at the Battle of Tippecanoe and Horseshoe Bend, in 1815, and was discharged from service on Feb. 12th, 1815. The Christian, Patriot, and soldier, at once; he has heard his last tattoo, until he hears the great marshal Gabriel, sound the last Reveille of Earth to summon all the world to the Roll-call of Almighty God." >From this obituary we learn a number of important things about Charles Roper: 1. Charles Roper was a Methodist. The family of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn were Methodists, with many of the children and grandchildren becoming Methodist preachers. 2. As mentioned above, Charles Roper was born on May 23, 1787 in North Carolina, and settled in Stewart County, TN in 1808. 3. He married Rachel Adkins on February 10, 1810, two years after his arrival in Stewart County, and Rachel died on February 4, 1867. 4. Charles had 11 living children at his death. 5. Charles served in the War of 1812. 6. I could not find a date for the obituary. However, if Charles was born in 1787 and was 83 years of age when he died, the obituary was probably written in 1870, the year he would have died. The obituary does not tell us in which County of North Carolina Charles was born or who his parents were. Charles Roper is first seen in an abstract for the 1810 Stewart County Tax List on Ancestry.com, but I can find no image of this Tax List. There is another abstract titled "1810 Stewart County TN Tax List- TNGenWeb" which shows Charles Roper in Capt. Kendall's district owning 74 acres, location unspecified. In the same district, one can find the following Atkins' family members: John Atkins, Sr.*****226 acres*****Cub Creek Lewis Atkins*******188 acres*****Neville's Creek George Atkins John Atkins, Jr. (his name has a line through it) Charles Roper is next seen in an image of the 1811 Stewart County Tax List on page 5 on Ancestry.com. Charles is seen living within 5 properties of two members of the Atkins' family, Asa Atkins and Ephraim Atkins. On page 3 of the Tax List, you will find John Atkins, Sr., John Atkins, Jr., George Atkins, William Atkins, James Atkins, and Lewis Atkins, all listed next to each other in that order. Secondary sources state that Rachel Atkins, who married Charles Roper, was the daughter of Lewis Atkins and Rebecca Smith. Secondary sources also state that George Atkins was her brother. This may be true, but I cannot verify it. Lewis Atkins filed for a Revolutionary War Pension. I have not been able to locate the images of Pension paper, so I am relying on two abstracts that I found on the Internet. In that Pension application dated September 4, 1832, Lewis states he was born April 10, 1756 in Prince Edward County, VA. In 1780, while a resident of Anson County, he volunteered in the North Carolina Line and served 17 months. In the 1860 Stewart County census, Rachel Atkins stated that she was born in NC and was 68 years of age, which would mean that she was born in 1792. Lewis Atkins would have been about 36 years of age at her birth. Secondary sources state that Lewis Atkins resided in Anson County, NC from 1780 until he moved to Stewart County, TN in 1808. Lewis Atkins can be seen in the 1790 Anson County, NC census with 5 females in his household. I cannot find him in the 1800 Anson County, NC census, but I did find a transcription of a 1797 Anson County deed showing the presence of Lewis Atkins: "1797 Jan - DB E p265. Francis Smith of Anson County to Lewis Atkins of same 50 ac on SW side of Pee Dee River; border: begins at a stake ...3 pines in James Long's first corner and James Auld's third corner, and fourth line of said 200 ac survey part of 200 ac granted Oct 1 1778 to Francis Smyth. Wit: Wm Howlet and *John Kendall*." Lewis Atkins also signed a petition in 1800 in Anson County which was filed with the North Carolina General Assembly (Nov-Dec 1800) opposing the repeal of a Bill passed in December of 1799. During the early 1800's, Anson County was adjacent to and to the east of Mecklenburg County. Asa Atkins had some land dealings with Charles Roper, abstracts of which I found on the Internet: "1809 : Deed Book C. #211 2 Oct. 1809 ASA ATKINS to CHARLES ROPER, 74a on N. Cross Creek for $100, purchased of EDWARD LUCAS; wit: BARNEBAS SKINNER, EPHRAIM ATKINS." "1814 : Deed Book 5 - #98 Charles ROPER to ASA ATKINS, 74a on N. Cross Creek, adj. land ATKINS bought of LUCAS; wit : James R. Randle, John DAVIDSON; 12 Jan. 1814. 161. Ordered by the court that PETER KENDALL and ASA ATKINS settle with JOHN GASTON, administrator of WALTER BROWN; May 1814." (Notice the name Peter Kendall; John Kendall was a witness to the Anson County deed to Lewis Atkins in 1797). Asa Atkins and Ephraim Atkins can both be found in the 1800 Montgomery County, NC census living next to each other. In the early 1800s, Montgomery county was to the north of and adjacent to Anson county, and the southwest corner of Montgomery county was adjacent to Mecklenburg county. The presence of the Akkins' family in both Montgomery County, NC and Anson County, NC initially led me to believe that Charles Roper came from one or both of those counties and that either William Roper or Green Roper of Anson County might be his father. (Charles did name sons Green Roper and William Roper.) It is still possible that Charles Roper's was born in one of those counties, but the evidence does not support a theory that either William Roper or Green Roper was the father of Charles Roper. Charles Roper was born of May 23, 1787. WAR, Jr. has the estimated birth date of William Roper to be 1774-80. Green Roper was born on 23 July 1773, Anson County, NC. Thus, William and Green Roper would have been only 13 or 14 years of age when Charles was born. Additionally, Martha Peay Roper, wife of William Roper, left a will dated July 10, 1839, which lists her surviving children, none of whom is named Charles Roper. And the final distribution of the Estate of Green Roper, which occurred in Hardeman County, TN on July 28, 1858, does not list Charles Roper as one of the heirs. (See the post of WAR, Jr. dated 27 Jan 2012, titled "Martha Roper (b abt 1776-80, d bef 24 Oct 1839 - Phillips, AR) and the post of WAR, Jr dated 31 Dec 2012 titled "Green ROPER (b 23 Jul 1773 - Anson Co, NC, d 03 Apr 1855 - Hardeman Co. TN)). Thus, neither William Roper nor Green Roper could be the father of Charles Roper. Charles Roper next appears in the 1820 Stewart County, TN census as seen of Ancestry.com: Charles Roper*****2-0-0-0-1-0*****1-0-1-1-0 Charles is shown as age 26-44, and his wife Rachel as age 26-44. There are 2 males<10, 1 female <10, and one female 16-25. Lewis Atkins, age 45 can be found on the same census page 3 properties away from Charles Also, a William L. Atkins, age 17-25, is seen living next to Charles Roper. Secondary sources state that William Atkins, b. abt 1705, was the father of Lewis Atkins of Anson County. A John Atkins Sr, age 45 , with an apparent wife 45 , and one male 26-44 and one female 16-25, is seen residing 5 houses away from Charles. On the preceding 1820 Stewart County census page, one can find Henry Atkins age 26-44, George W. Atkins age 26-44, John Atkins age 26-44, and Asa Atkins age 45 , with a female age 26-44. Charles Roper next appears in the 1830 Stewart County, TN census. The census record seems to be compiled in an alphabetical order, so we cannot determine who his neighbors might have been: Charles Roper*****2-0-3-0-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0*****1-2-0-1-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Charles is shown age 40-50, and Rachel is shown age 40-50. There are two males <5, and 3 males 10-14. There is another female age 40-50, one female <5, 2 females 5-9, and one female 15-19. Charles Roper appears next in the 1840 Stewart County, TN census: Charles Roper*****1-1-1-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-2-2-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 Charles is shown age 50-60, and Rachel is shown 40-50. There are a number of children. Also, a Carroll Roper age 20-30, with a wife the same age, with two males <5, are seen on the same page. Charles next appears in the 1850 Stewart County, TN census: Charles Roper 63 NC Rachel Roper 58 NC James Roper 21 TN Mary Roper 28 TN Richard Roper 19 TN Meranda Roper 7 TN Robert Roper 15 TN Martha Hayman 27 TN Elizabeth 8 TN William 6 TN Ellie Wyatt 20 TN Martha Hayman, with two children ages 8 and 6, is a widowed daughter of Charles Roper and Rachel. She will remarry a Matthew J. Thweatt on December 28, 1854 in Stewart County. The marriage record image on Ancestry.com of her marriage to Matthew J Thweatt shows her as "Martha L. Roper". On the same page of the 1850 Stewart County census we find a Thomas Roper, age 23, married to Demarius, a Marcus Roper, age 25, and a Bidda Lineberry, age 27, who will all turn out to be children of Charles Roper and Rachel. Thomas Roper is actually Thomas Carroll Roper, who was seen as Carroll Roper in the 1840 Stewart census. On the following page we find another Thomas Roper, age 30, married to a Jane. This will turn out to be Thomas Randal Roper, another son of Charles and Rachel. Charles Roper makes his final appearance in the 1860 Stewart County, TN census: Charles Roper 73 NC Farmer Rachel Roper 68 NC Mary Roper 23 TN Green Roper 29 TN Farm Laborer Moranda Roper 27 TN (This conflicts with the previous census). William Wyatt 16 TN William Wyatt 8 TN Martha Wyatt 5 TN John Wyatt 3 TN Thomas Roper (i.e. Thomas Randal Roper) and Robert Roper, and their families, can be seen on the same page. I am including a story about the Wyatt Twins, which will explain their presence in the census: "Excerpts from a journal about the Wyatt twins who joined the Roper family as babies. "Eli John Wyatt was a twin brother to Mitchell James Wyatt they were born in North Carolina on June 19, 1830. They were babies about a year old when they were left with the Charlie and Rachel Roper family. They were ill and too sick to travel with the wagon train, and their family left them and promised to come back for them, when they got settled out west. History tells us the family never came back, where or not they ever made it west I don't think anyone ever knew. Charles and Rachel Roper had nine children at this time, two were born to them after the twins were left there." "Sammy said the only thing other than name ever seperated them (Wyatt twins) from the Roper kids was anytime Mitchell came in the house Ma (Rachel) Roper would always hug and say thank you God for sending my special baby back to me, and if anyone was there she would always say you know these twin boys were a very special gift God left here one day, and that was the one and only answer anyone ever got out of her about why they were there, she would say they are my children just like all the rest, the only difference being I bore no pain having them, they were a very special gift God dropped off here one day. They have always been my very special babies, they have always been such good boys Pa (Charles) and I are so proud of them." " Charles Roper is not seen in the 1870 Stewart census, the purported year of his death. So I will now discuss the children of Charles Roper and Rachel Atkins. Charles Roper's obituary stated he had eleven children living at his death in 1870. As of 1860, I can account for eleven children still living: Thomas Carroll Roper 1817 Mary Roper 1822 Martha Roper 1823 Biddy Roper 1820-24 Thomas Randall Roper 1827 James Roper 1829 Richard Green Roper 1831 Robert Roper 1835 Elizabeth Roper 1842 Meranda Roper 1843 William Roper 1844 Charles Roper and Rachel married in 1812, so one would think they should have had other children born between 1812 and 1817. The 1820 Stewart census does show one additional male<10 and one female <10. Perhaps these two children died in their youth, since they are not in the list of the 11 living children. So who were some of these children? 1. Biddy Roper, b. 1820-24 I mentioned above that the Bidda Lineberry mentioned in the 1850 Stewart census was married to Saul Lineberry and had a child named Rachal. Bidda Lineberry can next be seen in the 1860 Stewart County, TN census. However, this time she is listed as Biddie Linebury and her husband is listed as Samuel Linebury: 1860 Stewart County, TN: Samuel Linebury 37 Beddie Linebury 36 Rachal Linebury 12 Martha Linebury 9 George Linebury 8 Mary Linebury 6 Meattie Linebury 4 Bettie Linebury 11/12 All are born in Tennessee, except Samuel who was born in Kentucky. Notice that the names Beddie, Rachal, Martha, George, and Mary also appear as children of Charles and Rachel. I cannot find an 1870 census record for Beddie Linebury, but she does appear in the 1880 Indian Mound, Stewart County, TN census as Biddy Lembury or Biddy Lineberry in Ancestry.com. My reading of the name is Biddy Lineberry: Biddy Lineberry 50 Widowed b. Tenn Father b. NC Mother b. SC George D. Lembery 27 Kate F. Lembery 20 Sallie G. Lembery 18 Allis Smith 29 Samuel B. Smith 10 Bettie Smith 8 Katy Smith 4 2. Thomas Carroll Roper As noted above, there was a Carroll Roper age 20-30, with a wife the same 20-30, with two males <5 residing two properties from Charles Roper and Rachel in the 1840 Stewart County census. Carroll Roper appears next in the 1850 Stewart County, TN census as Thomas Roper: 1850 Stewart County, TN: Thomas Roper 23 TN Demarius Roper (F) 31 KY Charles Roper 13 TN Jesse Roper 11 TN Allen Roper 9 TN George Roper 6 TN Susan Roper 4 TN Richard Roper 1 TN Thomas Roper is listed as the head of the household. He is listed as age 23, but this is probably a mistake by the census taker. He will show up as age 43 in the next census. Demarius Roper, a 31 year old female, is his wife. Thomas Carroll Roper next shows up in the 1860 Pocahontas, Bond, IL census as T. C. Roper: T C Roper 43 TN Elizabeth Roper 25 IL Charles A. Roper 23 TN Jesse T. Roper 21 TN Allen P. Roper 19 TN George W. Roper 16 TN Rachel S. Roper 12 TN Martha S. Roper 1 IL Perhaps Demarius died and Thomas Carroll remarried younger woman, Elizabeth, and they now have a one year old child named Martha S. Roper. 3. Thomas Randall Roper Thomas Randall Roper, b. abt. 1827, can first be seen in the 1850 Stewart County, TN census: 1850 Stewart County, TN: Thomas Roper 30 b. TN Jane Roper 27 b. TN Rachel Roper 7 b. TN Sarah Roper 5 b. TN James Roper 3 b. TN Charles Roper 3/12 b. TN I cannot find Thomas Randall Roper in an 1860 census. However he does appear in the 1870 Pocahontas, Bond, IL census: Thomas R. Roper 50 b. TN Jane D. Roper 47 Rachael Hendricks 25 Sarah E. Dixon 23 James A. C. Roper 21 Minerva R. Roper 16 Isaac N. Roper 13 Samuel G. Roper 10 Louisa D. Roper 8 Biddy L. Roper 6 Robert N. Hendricks9 Adrian M. Hendricks 2/12 Charles G B Roper 20 Here is an interesting story I found on the Internet in reference to Thomas Randall Roper: "Civil War on the Plantation Written about 1930 by Samuel George Linebery Roper, grandson of Charles Roper, and son of Thomas and Jane Roper. "My grandfather, Charles Roper, was a slave owner. Rumor has it that when the clouds of the Civil War began to rise along the horizon, grandfather, having an eye for business, exchanged all his slaves (except his wife's two personal servants) for anything of value he could get -- money, chattel, or land. Thus, he did not lose his wealth when the slaves were declared free men. This shrewd business insight is characteristic of certain Ropers to this day. In 1864 we left our birthplace (Stewart County, Tennessee) and moved to Illinois. My father (Thomas Randall) was anti-slave; and when war broke, he in company with my oldest brother (A.C.) set out for the North, sending for mother and the rest of us children later. It seems a wonder to me that we ever crossed the Mason and Dixon line, but we did. Some one in the family has said that we travelled under the protection of General Grant's army. Now my grandfather's (Charles) wrath at his son's (Thomas Randall Roper) disloyalty to the cause of slavery was expressed in his will. All that my father inherited of that Southern plantation (Stewart County, Tennessee) was a large flat rock, which covers several acres. It is called Roper's Rock to this day; and I just want to say that I think the world and all of that rock. If it were possible, I'd have it marked as a monument to my father and for what he stood. For my part, I'd rather have that bare rock with our country freed from slavery than have the most beautiful plantation in all Tennessee with slavery."" I don't know how reliable this story is. Charles Roper is shown with no slaves in 1820, 1830, and 1840. Slaves were not counted in the 1850 and 1860 census. However, this story does add support for establishing that Biddy Lineberry was the daughter of Charles and Rachel, since a son of Thomas Randal Roper was named after Biddy's husband, Samuel Lineberry. 4. Richard Green Roper Richard Green Roper, who is shown as Richard Roper in the 1850 census and Green Roper in the 1860 census, next appears in the 1870 Stewart County, TN census: 1870 Stewart County, TN: Green Roper 39 TN Eurethre Roper 35 TN Iddie Roper 6 IL Laura Roper 3 TN Edward Roper 2 KY Notice that Iddie, Laura, and Edward are reportedly born in three separate states. Richard Green Roper next appears as R.M.G. Roper in 1880 Flannigan, Hamilton, IL census as follows: R. M. G. Roper 49 b. TN Father b. SC Mother b. SC Mithre Roper 45 b. TN Mother b. Virginia Father b. Virginia Addie A. Roper 16 b. IL Father b. SC Mother b. Virginia Lora L Roper 13 b. TN Father b. SC Mother b. Virginia Edward 12 b. KY Mother b. SC Mother b. Virginia The three children are listed as a son and two daughters. However, both Mithre and R.M.G. Roper were born in TN, and the three children claim that there mother was born in Virginia. I cannot find an 1890 census record for R. M. G. Roper. However, he does appear in the 1900 Knight Prairie, Hamilton, IL census: Richard M. G. Roper 69 b. June 1831 TN Father b. SC Mother b. NC Eurethre M. Roper 64 b. Aug 1835 TN Father b. VA Mother b.VA Lauria L. Roper 33 b. Mar 1867 TN Father b. TN Mother b. TN Notice that Lauria is giving completely different information on where her parents were born. She had previously stated in the 1870 census that her father was born in SC and her mother in VA. 5. Marcus Roper As mentioned above, Marcus Roper first appears by name as a neighbor to Charles and Rachel in the 1850 Stewart County census. He can be found next as M. L. Roper in the 1860 District 5, Maury County, TN census: 1860 Maury County, TN: M. L. Roper 35 Elizabeth M. Roper 33 Sarah J. Roper 13 Rachael F. Roper 9 William R. Roper 4 Martha A. Roper 2 All are born in Tennessee. Marcus Roper can next be found in the 1870 District 6, Humphreys, TN census: 1870 Humphreys, TN: Macus L. Roper 45 Elizabeth Roper 43 Sarah J. Roper 23 Rachel R. A. Roper 19 Mary C. Roper 14 Martha A. Roper 12 Elizabeth M. Roper 9 Margaret A. R. Roper 6 Chaska(?) Roper 1 Robert C. Roper 33 All were born in Tennessee. Robert C. Roper is probably the brother of Marcus Roper and the Robert who is shown as age 15 in the 1850 census of the family of Charles and Rachel Roper. Marcus is last seen in the 1880 Dyer's Creek, Stewart, TN census as Marcus L. Roper: 1880 Stewart, TN: Marcus L. Roper 55 Elizabeth M.Roper 53 Sarah Jane Roper 33 Delphina E. Roper 19 Margaret A. Roper 15 All are born in Tennessee. Marcus says his parents were born in North Carolina. So what connections can we now make between Charles Roper of Stewart, TN and Jesse Roper, son of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn? First, there is the North Carolina connection. A Jesse Roper can be seen in Northampton County, NC deed abstracts dated in 1780, 1882, and 1786 and in the 1786 Northampton County Tax List, one year before the birth of Charles Roper. (See above mentioned post on Jesse Roper by WAR, Jr.) Also as noted by WAR, Jr. in his post on Jesse Roper mentioned above, a Jesse Roper can be seen in the 1790 Cumberland County, NC census. As WAR, Jr notes, Jesses Roper is apparently the only Jesse Roper found in the United States in 1790 and there is a good probability that this is Jesse Roper, son of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn: 1790 Cumberland , NC Jesse ROPER 3 - 2 - 7 -- 0 - 0 WAR, Jr. notes that "the first figure shown is for free white males age 16 and up (b bef 1775). The second figure is for white males under age 16 (b abt 1774-90). The third figure is for white females. The two remaining figures (both zero) are for free blacks and slaves." One of the white male children under age 16 could be Charles Roper of Stewart County, TN. WAR, Jr. further suggests the possibility that Jesse Roper next appeared in the 1800 Lancaster District, SC census: "1800 United States Census for Lancaster District, SC Jesse ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 1 -- 6 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 1 -- 0 - 0 [Lancaster District, SC 1800]" As can be seen from this record, there is one male child age 10-16. This could be Charles Roper born in 1887. (When I mentioned above that two of the children of Charles Roper stated in their census records that their father was born in South Carolina, one could surmise that Charles spoke to his children of his family residing in South Carolina at some time prior to his moving to Stewart County, TN). Jesse Roper died sometime before 1810, when the Inventory of his Estate occurred in Mecklenburg County, NC. As WAR, Jr. points out in his post, an administrator's bond dated 22 Jan 1810 was given by Biddy Roper, James Roper and Josiah Harrison. Biddy Roper and James Roper had been appointed administrators of his estate. There is no list of heirs, but only purchasers of various property items of the Estate. Charles Roper is not listed as one of those purchasers. Biddy Roper is generally considered to be the wife of Jesse Roper. James Roper, one of the administrators, is generally considered to be one of the sons of Jesse Roper. James Roper's estate was probated 1828. One of the administrators of the estate was James W. Roper, most likely the son of James Roper. James W. Roper married a Biddy Roper on August 14, 1821 in Mecklenburg, NC. James W. Roper may have had a son who was named Charles B. Roper. (See WAR, Jr. post of May11, 2014 titled "James Roper (b abt 1769-74, d bef 24 Nov 1828"). Finally, there was a Thomas Roper who died in Mecklenburg, NC sometime prior to November 29, 1814. A James Roper and Joseph Fincher are shown as the bondsmen for the administrator's bond. WAJ, Jr. has suggested this may be another son of Jesse Roper and Biddy. The second connection we can make between Charles Roper of Stewart County and Jesse Roper of Mecklenburg is through the numerous similarities in names in the families of Charles and Rachel Roper and Jesse and Obedience (Biddy) Roper. The name that sticks out the most is "Biddy". Jesse Roper married a "Biddy", which is a nickname for Obedience. Charles and Rachel named a child "Biddy", perhaps to honor the mother of Charles, and Thomas Randall Roper named a child "Biddy L. Roper". Also, Jesse Roper's grandson, James W. Roper, married a Biddy Roper, who was perhaps the daughter of John Roper, who married Sarah Fincher and who is another possible son of Jesse Roper. Charles and Rachel named a child James, perhaps in honor of his brother James Roper, b. abt 1769-74. Thomas Carroll Roper, son of Charles and Rachel, named children James Roper, Jesse Roper, Charles Roper, and Allen Roper. (Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn named a child Allen Roper who was born on April 3, 1756. Not much is known about the Allen Roper, but it is a unique name in this line of Ropers). Thomas Randal Roper named children Biddy, James, and Charles. Charles and Rachel named two children Thomas, perhaps after the Thomas Roper who died prior to Nov 29, 2014 in Mecklenburg. Finally, there is Charles Roper himself, who was perhaps named by Jesse Roper to honor his father Charles Roper of Dinwiddie, VA. Any contributions to further identifying this particular Charles Roper of Stewart County, TN would be welcomed. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/28.173/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Pleasant Yewell ROPER was the son of Francis Yewell ROPER (b 16 Sep 1813) and the grandson of John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863) and Nancy (b 18 Oct 1792, d 05 Apr 1845). This John ROPER has been erroneously or fraudulently connected by some researchers to a possilby fictitious "William John ROPER" who is represented to have been born in Fauquier County, VA, though there seems to be no evidence that any such person ever existed. See my thread: "John ROPER (b 08 Jan 1788 - NC, d Oct 1863), of Greene and Pulaski Counties, Missouri" (19 Apr 2014 9:58PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1899/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: Curtwright70 Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1933/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, did this man ever answer anyone concerning Pleas Y. Roper of Texas? I have some information and also his picture is on findagrave. Curt Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Peay Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1768.9.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Thanks for the additional reference! I had previously been alerted to a deed showing William and Martha ROPER as well as Green ROPER and his wife. But the inclusion of the express mention of the nickname "Patty" wasn't given in the account of I received. As I had mentioned, I have recently concluded that Martha Peay ROPER was NOT the notorious "Polly" ROPER involved in the Tennessee divorce. It became increasingly clear that she didn't fit for other reasons. But discovery that Martha had the nickname "Patty", while not mutually exclusive from the possibility of another different nickname, is additional evidence as to my prior misascription. These records are also helpful in further elaborating the Peay family line into which the Anson ROPER family intermarried. Given Austin PEAY's operation of a ferry across the Wateree River, I think you can also see why I suspected that the Martha ROPER who appeared in Lincoln County where the ROPERs operated a ferry across the Elk River might be the SAME Martha who married William ROPER. Now, I think that the ROPER involvement on the Elk River ferry, about which little seems to be known, is simply a coincidence. Of course, operation of ferries in modern times, with the existence of a robust transportation infrastructure to include an abundance of highway bridges, is uncommon, but in those days ferries were the efficient means of crossing broad and fast rivers! So the significance of the coincidence is lessened by the more common occurence. Obviously, I wouldn;t have drawn any inferences if I noted that two families in different places were involved in farming. But some other occupations, such as the Methodist ministry (Charles ROPER's family), leather making (Shadrach ROPER's family) and innkeeping (the family of Jesse ROPER, of Richmond), seem to have persisted across generations and give some clue or support weak inferences as to family connection. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1768.9.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, Your analysis is correct. William Roper did marry Martha Peay, While surfing the Internet, I was quite fortunate to find this November 12, 2003 post by Dorothy Hunter: "The following was copied (in abstracted form) from microfilm of original deeds of Fairfield County, SC. (1) A gift deed dated 2 July 1795 Fairfield County SC from ELIZABETH PEAY to her children (no names), for all her lands and plantations in Fairfield County; all house furniture, slaves, stock of cattle, horses, hogs. Signed ELIZABETH PEAY (by mark) Witnesses: William Stark, Thomas Stark, Samuel Stark. Recorded 7 July 1795. (2) Sale - John Street, Matthew Collier, Green Roper, William Roper, George Peay and John Peay of Fairfield for three hundred dollars paid by AUSTIN PEAY of same state & district - plantation containing two hundred and twenty acres on SW side of Wateree River in Fairfield - a part of 2 surveys, one was granted to ___? Lewis on 21 May 1772?, and one part granted to Frances Leighton __83? - on Taylors Creek (described in metes and bounds). Said land conveyed to ELIZABETH PEAY by John Yarborough 15 March 1793 and by her conveyed to her children by a deed of gift. Witnesses: Austin F. Peay, William Cloud Signed 25 March 1805 by JOHN STREET, MATTHEW COLLIER, WILLIAM ROPER, GEORGE PEAY, GREEN ROPER (John Peay not listed with those signing). Release of dower by JANE STREET, wife of John Street; ELIZABETH COLLIER, wife of Matthew Collier; PATTY ROPER, wife of William Roper; FANNY ROPER, wife of Green Roper. Signatures sworn to by AUSTIN F. PEAY 13 Sept 1806. (3) A gift deed by ELIZABETH PEAY of Fairfield District SC "to my daughter JANE STREET, Negroes named Eddy, Elsy, Moriah, Molly and Emeretton and their increase. Signed 1 March 1809 ELIZABETH PEAY (by mark). (index to deeds says 1820) Witnesses: Austin F. Peay, Austin Peay." The most important entry is number (2), which is the sale of property that had been owned by Elizabeth Peay and that she had deeded by gift to her children. Two of those children are Patty Roper, wife of William Roper, and Fanny Roper, wife of Green Roper. (Patty was a common nickname for Martha). Secondary sources state that Elizabeth Peay was the daughter of George Peay, Jr. and Elizabeth Stark. I have not seen the original images of the abstracts. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Lewis, Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1931.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I recently created a new thread at the RootsWeb LEWIS Message Baord to discuss Griffin LEWIS, Son of Angelica LEWIS : "Griffin LEWIS, Son of Angelica LEWIS (d bef Sep 1783 - Northampton, NC)" (8 Jul 2014 5:13PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.lewis/13440/mb.ashx There are several contemporary Griffin LEWISes and my thread is intended to present some of the primary information intended to distinguish these. I am NOT confident that the secondary information posted online by others about these Griffin LEWISes is actually correct. This thread is currently INCOMPLETE. I have some other notes to add, but wanted to make it more readily identifable and accessible to those with an interest in the family of Ann Lewis ROPER. I will endeavor to return to an elaborate this thread when I have more time. Others are invited and encouraged to contribute. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1932/mb.ashx Message Board Post: As we know from the Moore Family Bible, Charles Roper was born on April 19, 1758, one of a number of sons of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn of Dinwiddie, VA. From the same Bible, we also know that he married Elizabeth Butler, and they had the following children, as transcribed by William Alexander Roper, Jr: Nancy ROPER (b 06 Apr 1777) m Benjamin MOORE on 22 Dec 1796 Elizabeth ROPER m Banister SHCKLEFORD Martha ROPER m Richard LEDBETTER Joseph ROPER m Miss WHITEHEAD Dolly ROPER m Louis MEREDITH Goodwin ROPER, died in youth I have not found a posting on the Roper-L Archives which specifically addresses Charles Roper and his wife Elizabeth Butler, and their child Joseph Roper. Also, although Joseph W. Roper is considered by secondary source to be the grandchild Charles and Elizabeth, the identity of the father of Joseph W. Roper seems to be unclear. I think a case can be made that Joseph, son of Charles and Elizabeth, was that father. The L. David Roper data base has these early records which show Charles Roper, Jr. in association with his father Charles Roper, Sr.: "Fothergill's Virginia Taxpayers 1782-1787 lists: First number is white pole (m21-50), second is slaves. Dinwiddie Co.: Charles Roper, Sr. 2 3 Charles Roper, Jr. 1 - A 1782 tax list for Dinwiddie County lists: free male, negro >21, negro <21, horses, cattle Charles Roper Jr 1 - - 2 10; Charles Roper Sen 2 2 1 4 17 1787 tax lists of Virginia: (wm16-21,b>16,b0-16,horses,cattle) Dinwiddie Co.: Charles Roper, Jr. 0 0 1 2 7; Charles Roper, Sr. 2 3 5 5 19 William Meredith 0 3 6 3 12; David Meredith 0 0 0 0 0 Dinwiddie County will of William Hudson, D.13 Sep 1789. My crop of corn, fodder, wheat, and oats both in the house and growing in the field to be sold to pay debts. Legatee: Nancy Wilds 1 negro for life enumerated personalty; the former to her lawful issue, or failing such to Irby Hudson son of Irby. Brother: Irby Hudson 100 acres adjoining him on Stony Creek, including the building whereon I now live, 1 horse, 1 negro. Brother: Tutle Hudson the remainder part of my land, 1 negro. Sister: Penelope Hudson 1 horse, the use of 1 negro for her life and then to her lawful issue, failing such toSally Hudson dau. of Irby. Legatee: Sally Hudson dau. of Irby 1 bed and furniture. Legatee: Penelope Young one cow and calf. Brothers: Irby and Tutle Hudson the labor of 1 negro for their lives and then to the survivor. All the balance of my estate not disposed of, including my outstanding debts. Sister: Penelope Hudson to care for Nancy Wilds and raise her in a Christian manner. Exec: Irby and Tuttle Hudson. With: Charles Roper, Jr., Joel Roper, Elizabeth Roper. 15 Feb 1790 Dinwiddie Co. Hudson qualified with Charles Roper, Jr. and Ambrose Brown securities. R Sep Court 1790 Dinwiddie Co. Tuttle Hudson qualified with George Pegram security. Dinwiddie Co. VA Land Records 1752-1820: Anderson, James-1794 taxed on 374 a conv 70 a to Richard Mayes. 1795-1796 taxed on 359 3/4 a conv 14 1/4 a to Joel Roper. Claiborne, Matt M.- 1798 taxed on 500a, 10a, 259a conv by Irby Hudson & 198a conv by Wm. Cole & 100a conv by Joel Roper... Charles Roper, Sr.-1787-1790 taxed on 200a. 1791 Estate taxed on 200a. 1792 taxed on 200a no Estate and no Sr. Charles Roper, Jr.-1787-1801 taxed on 330a. Joel Roper-1795-1797 taxed on 14 1/2a conv by James Anderson. 1798-1806 taxed on 200a, 14 1/2a & 100a conv by Matt M. Claiborne. Michael Roper-1787-1812 taxed on 200a. 1800 tax lists: (wm>21,horses,b12-16,b>16)(horses,b>16,b12-16) Dinwiddie Co.: Joel Roper5 4 1 Charles Roper 5 0 1 (and Goodwyn Roper, over 16)" Joel Roper would be the brother of Charles Roper, Jr. Goodwyn Roper would be the son of Charles Roper, Jr. Thanks to the Age of the Internet, it is no longer necessary to rely on these Land Tax Record abstracts or to travel to Dinwiddie County, VA to examine the actual images. All of the images are now available at the following website: "Dinwiddie County, VA- Official Website- Land Tax Books". The images are for the Land Tax records of Dinwiddie County, commencing in 1782 and ending in 1875. Most are very clear images and they are alphabetized for easy access. The records are incomplete for the years 1783-1786, and I could not pull up the records for 1803-1804. Otherwise, they appear to be the complete records for all the other years. There are primarily four Ropers who appear quite early in these records: Charles Roper Sr., Charles Roper, Jr., Joel Roper, and Michael Roper. Michael Roper is an unknown to me. He appears mostly in the "A" section of the records, e.g. 1797A, 1798A, etc. The other three Ropers mostly appear in the "B" section of the records, e.g. 1997B, 1798B, etc. I will not be discussing Michael Roper. Starting in 1782, Charles Roper, Sr. and Charles Roper, Jr. can be found. Charles Roper, Sr. is shown owning 200 acres. Charles Roper, Jr. is shown owning 330 acres. This will remain consistent for many years: 1782 Charles Roper, Sr. 200 acres Charles Roper, Jr. 330 acres 1787B Ditto 1788B Ditto 1789B Ditto 1790B Ditto 1791B Ditto 1792B Ditto 1793B Ditto 1794B Ditto 1795B Charles Roper, Sr. Est. 200 acres Charles Roper, Jr. 330 acres Apparently, this or the year before is the year that Charles Roper, Sr. died. 1796B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres Apparently, Joel Roper either inherited the land of Charles Roper, Sr., or he acquired the land as a part of the Estate of Charles Roper, Sr. 1797B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 1798B Ditto 1799B Ditto 1800B Ditto 1801B Ditto 1802B Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 44 acres 1 acre 1803B ( Blank) 1804 (Cannot access document) 1805 Joel Roper 200 acres Charles Roper 300 acres 44 acres 1 acre 1806 Ditto (However, there is a description of Charles Roper's 1 acre parcel which I cannot make out that states there is a "muling ?" or "huling?" house on the one acre). 1807A Joel Roper Est 200 acres 14 œ acres 100 acres Charles Roper 330 acres 44 acres As can be seen by the last record, Joel Roper has died. These records will continue on for many years, listing the Joel Roper, Est property and Charles Roper's property. I will return to Charles Roper later. >From these records, we learn that Charles Roper, Jr. is consistently shown residing in Dinwiddie County, VA from 1782. However, I will now turn to the Dinwiddie population census records, which are extant from 1810 onward. Charles Roper, Jr. can next be found in the 1810 Dinwiddie County, VA census: Charles Roper 1-1-0-0-1*****0-0-0-0-1 Charles is shown as age 45 , with a presumed wife age 45 . They have one male<1-, and one male 10-15 residing in the home. The age of Charles is consistent with his being born in 1758. Charles Roper, Jr. can next be found in the 1820 Dinwiddie County, VA census: Charles Roper 1-0-1-1-0-1*****1-2-0-1-1 Charles Roper is again shown at age 45 , with a presumed wife age 45 . There appears to be a younger family residing with them consisting of a female age 26-44, a female <10, and two females 10-15. Also residing with them are a male 16-25, a male 16-18, and a male <10. Charles would now be 62 years of age. So we could surmise that the wife might be about the same age. Charles does not appear in the 1830 Dinwiddie County, VA census. However, in that year, we have the appearance of an Elizabeth Roper: Elizabeth Roper 0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0 Elizabeth Roper is age 70-80. There is one male 15-19. There is a female 40-49, with one female age 20-29. Elizabeth Roper would have been born 1750-1760. Elizabeth Roper is in fact Elizabeth Butler Roper, the widow of Charles Roper, Jr., who was born in 1758. I will demonstrate this shortly. Elizabeth Roper is not seen after the 1830 census. She died in Dinwiddie County around 1837, as is evidenced by the following correspondence taken from the L. David Roper database: "On 24 Nov 1830 Boswell Hutchings, Cloverdale, Dinwiddie Co. VA, wrote his brother, William Hutchings, Cainsfork, Wilson Co. TN: Boswell says to tell Mr. Moore that Grandmother Roper is in tolerable health as are all of her family. On 3 Mar 1837 L. M. Southerland, Fork Inn, Dinwiddie Co. VA, wrote R. R. Moore of Sandy Ridge, TN: Mrs. Charles Roper is dead. Cousin Joe is in good health and bought the land the old lady lived on. Uncle Boswell is very low. Mrs. Roper died about the first of last Feb. Deed: 26 Jan 1818 Archibald Smith heirs, 59.5 ac., adj. Charles Roper & Hogwood line." R. R. Moore of Sandy Ridge, TN is probably Robert R. Moore, son of Benjamin Moore and Nancy Roper, as shown in the Moore Family Bible, which I will quote in part: "Benjamin Moore married Nancy Roper his own cousin, Dec. 22, 1796 Benjamin Moore died Feb 1, 1849. Nancy Roper Moore (died) June 15,1850, Virginians by birth. Their children born died Martha Ann Moore Jan 1?, 1768---- Feb 15, 1864 Robert R. Moore April 23, 1800 May 26, 1849...." Nancy Roper (Moore) born April 6, 1777 is shown in the Moore Family Bible as the daughter of Charles Roper II and Elizabeth Butler. So who is "cousin Joe" who bought Mrs. Charles Roper's property as mentioned in the March 3, 1837 letter of L. M. Southerland? Joe is Joseph W. Roper, who I will now discuss. Joseph W. Roper makes an appearance in the 1830 Dinwiddie County, VA census, living next to a David Roper: Joseph W. Roper 0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0 David Roper 1-1-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0*****1-1-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0 Joseph W. Roper is shown as age 20-29. There is a female age 50-60 in the household. (As far as the identity of the David Roper who is shown in the census, I will defer to the excellent postings on by William Alexander Roper, Jr. concerning David W. Roper (b. abt 1795-1800- Dinwiddie, VA, d. 11 Feb 1840- Williamson Co., TN, starting with his first thread on January 16, 2013. I agree with Bill that David Roper is the likely son of Joel Roper, son of Charles Roper and Ann Goodwyn.) Joseph W. Roper was probably residing with his mother Nancy, a widow, who appears in the 1810 and 1820 Dinwiddie County census records as the head of a household: 1810 Dinwiddie County, VA Nancy Roper 1-0-1-0-0*****1-0-0-1-0 Nancy Roper is shown as age 26-44. There is one male <10, one male 16-25, and one female <10. The male <10 could be Joseph W. Roper. 1820 Dinwiddie County, VA Nancy Roper 0-0-1-0-0-0*****0-0-1-1-0 Nancy Roper is shown as age 26-44. There is one male age 10-15, and one female age 16-25. The one male could be Joseph W. Roper. Nancy Roper is probably the "Miss Whitehead", shown as the wife of Joseph Roper, son of Charles Roper and Elizabeth, although I have no extant document verifying this fact and my opinion is based solely on circumstantial evidence. Joseph W. Roper actually makes his first appearance in the "Dinwiddie County, VA- Official Website- Land Tax Books" in the year 1824, under the Tax Book heading of 1824B. He is listed in an entry above Elizabeth Roper. Joseph W. Roper is shown owning 120 acres on Butterwood Road. As stated in the Tax Book, he inherited the acreage "from the Estate of Charles Roper by Will". Elizabeth Roper is shown in the same record as the owner of two parcels, one of 254 acres and the other of 46 Ÿ acres, all on Butterwood Road. She also inherited her acreage "from the Estate of Charles Roper by Will", as indicated by the word "ditto". Charles Roper apparently died between 1823 and 1824. In the same Land Tax Books, Charles is shown in 1823, the year before his death, as owning two parcels, one of 374 acres and the other of 46 Ÿ acres, all on Butterwood Road. There are yearly entries in the Land Tax Books from 1823-1836 for both Joseph W. Roper and Elizabeth Roper, with each of them owning the same acreage they did in 1824. However, Joseph W. Roper is shown having a fee interest in his land and Elizabeth Roper is shown having a life estate in her land. Then, in 1837, the entries read generally as follows: Roper, Joseph W. 120 acres on Butterwood Road Roper, Charles Est 254 acres on ditto 46 Ÿ acres on ditto Obviously, Elizabeth Roper has died and her life estate property has reverted to Charles Roper's Estate for distribution through probate. In 1838, only the name Joseph W. Roper appears in the Land Tax Books. He is shown owning 420 œ acres on Butterwood Road in Dinwiddie. Thus, the letter mentioned above about "cousin Joe" buying the property of Mrs. Charles Roper obviously refers to Joseph W. Roper. Joseph W. Roper appears in subsequent Dinwiddie County census records, until his death on July 10, 1855, when he was honored in the local paper as local Methodist Minister. I will not discuss these records in detail because William Alexander Roper, Jr. has already done so. So who was the father of Joseph W. Roper? There appears to be only one good candidate. Charles and Elizabeth Roper had two sons: Joseph Roper and Goodwyn Roper. Goodwyn died in his youth, apparently having never married, as indicated in the Moore Family Bible. This leaves Joseph Roper as the only likely candidate to be the father of Joseph W. Roper. I cannot find an extant document showing that Joseph Roper, the father, ever resided in Dinwiddie. I cannot find him in any of the Dinwiddie County Tax Lists from 1797-1812. It is possible that Joseph Roper never owned taxable land and, therefore, does not show up in the tax lists. The "population" census records for Dinwiddie County no longer exist prior to 1810. Nancy Roper herself appears in the 1810 and 1820 Dinwiddie census records, but she is never shown as having taxable real property in the Land Tax Books, which would indicate that Joseph himself did not own land before he died. Many other Ropers, including Charles Roper, Joel Roper's Estate, Polly Roper, Rebecca Roper, Michael Roper, Ann Roper, and Burwell Roper, do appear in the 1820 and other Land Tax Books, but not Nancy Roper. Even without a record that shows Joseph resided in Dinwiddie County, there is circumstantial evidence to indicate he was the probable father of Joseph W. Roper. First, there is the name Joseph W. Roper. It would be natural for Joseph, son of Charles and Elizabeth, to name his son Joseph. Also, the middle initial "W" could indicate that Joseph W. Roper's middle name was Whitehead. Secondary sources suggest Joseph W. Roper was Joseph Whitehead Roper, but I cannot find a document evidencing this. Second, Joseph W. Roper inherited from the estate of Charles Roper. Inheritances for the most part go to the children or grandchildren. Charles and Elizabeth had a number of daughters and they probably inherited from the Estate of Charles Roper. Joseph W. Roper would typically have received the share of the estate that would have gone to his father, had he been living, and with that share, perhaps Joseph W. Roper bought out the interest of the other heirs to the property on which Elizabeth had a life estate. With the Land Tax records now available online on both Charles Roper, Sr., and Charles Roper, Jr., perhaps some other issues can now be addressed. For instance, I recently posted an article on Joseph Roper (b. abt 1775-82) ,of Lincoln County, TN, suggesting that he might be an additional son of John Roper of Pendleton District, SC. It now appears highly unlikely that Joseph Roper of Lincoln County, TN could be the same Joseph Roper of Dinwiddie, VA. They have different wives and different children. Also, it is possible that Charles Roper, Jr. made a quick appearance in Rutherford County, NC to act as a bondsman for the marriage of David Roper and Sarah France on February 25, 1788. However, it is not likely that Charles Roper, Jr., who is shown living on 330 acres in Dinwiddie County from 1787 until he died and who specifically is shown as owning 330 acres of land in the Dinwiddie 1790 Land Tax records, would also appear in the 1790 Rutherford County, NC census as the head of a household. Based on the Dinwiddie Land Tax records, it is more likely that Charles Roper, Jr. never left Dinwiddie County, VA. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>