This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Brownell Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.7.2 Message Board Post: The identity of Horace Henry ROPER's (b 1835 - Debenham, Suffolk, England, d aft 1880 - Prob CA) wife Martha is given in my previous Post "Illinois Statewide ROPER Marriages from 1763-1900 BY FIRST NAME" (20 Apr 2005 2:02 AM GMT ) at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=752: "ROPER, HORACE H -- BROWNELL, MARTHA C: COOK COUNTY; 3/19/1871; 001/; FINK" This seems most likely to be the Martha C. BROWNELL, age 25, shown in the 1870 U.S. Census residing within the household of Albert and Angeline BROWNELL, age 33, and 31, respectively, in Elmhurst, DuPage County, Illinois. This Martha C. BROWNELL was shown to be a school teacher. This Martha BROWNELL seems to be the daughter of Norman and Mary BORWNELL, of Williston, Chittenden County, Vermont.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Groves Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/782.1 Message Board Post: Thank you Mr. Wheatley for sharing the gravestone image at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~t42cemeteries/Texas/Tarrant/MountOlive/ROPER_Clarence_E_Jr_1894-1962_.JPG !! This Clarence Eugene ROPER, Jr. (b 04 Dec 1894 - San Antonio, Bexar County, TX, d 29 Jan 1962 - TX) is shown to have been born in San Antonio, Bexar County, Texas. This indication appears on his WW I Draft registration card, which shows him at age 22 residing at 3610 Oak Lane, Dallas, Texas. He is shown to have then been an automobile mechanic at Ft. Worth Motor Truck Company, of Dallas. He is shown to have been "Tall" and "Slender", with "Light Blue" eyes and "Dark Brown" hair at the date of that registration card on 05 Jun 1917. The 1920 Census shows him residing with his parents, Clarence E. ROPER (b abt 1868 - GA, d 7 Feb 1923 - Bexar, TX) and Hale ROPER (b abt 1875 - TX). Brother Max ROPER (b abt 1908 - TX) and sister-in-law Bertha ROPER (b abt 1890 - TX) are also residing in the Clarence ROPER household. * Clarence Eugene ROPER, Jr., seems to have also been married to a Kathryn GROVES. Clarence Eugene ROPER, Jr., is found in the 1930 Census enumeration residing at 5802 Edison Court in Dallas with wife Kathryn. Clarence is shown as "C. E. ROPER", age 34. Kathryn is shown to be age 30. They seem to have been married the previous year. [Enumeration District 56-19 at Sheet 5A] * Bertha A. ROPER seems to be divorced from Clarence ROPER's brother and is living at 809 Luda Street, Ft. Worth, Tarrant County, TX, in 1930. The elder Clarence Eugene ROPER seems to have died in San Antonio, Bexar County, Texas on 07 Feb 1923. I have NOT seen his death certificate. I have NOT been able to readily ascertain the identity of Clarence Eugene ROPER's father. A person with a singular interest in this family may want to obtain that death certificate (Roper, Clarence Eugene; Bexar; 7 Feb 1923; Cert. No. 7127). * Does anyone know anything else about this ROPER family??

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.7.1 Message Board Post: I have data for the following marriages: Fanny E. Roper m George W. Sackett 24 Jan 1867 Boone Co. IL Rosa J. Roper m Oliver Beckington 25 Mar 1875 Boone Co. IL from http://www2.sos.state.il.us/GenealogyMWeb/MarriageSearchServlet?county=STATEWIDE&internal=external&groom=&bride=Roper in 2004 Dave Roper

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Cole, Lynch, Decker Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.7 Message Board Post: One of the ROPER English immigrants found in the 1870 Census is a Henry H. ROPER, age 35, residing with his parents in Spring Township, Boone County, Illinois: United States Census -- 1870 Spring Township, Boone County, Illinois, Page 17 (Page Imprinted "469") 25 Jul 1870 Line 8, Dwelling 120, Family 117, ROPER, Sion, Age 61, Male, White, Farmer, RE $2,500, Pers. Estate $800, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born, Male U.S. Citizen Age 21 or more Line 9, Dwelling 120, Family 117, ROPER, Mary, Age 61, Female, White, Keeping House, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born Line 10, Dwelling 120, Family 117, ROPER, Horace H., Age 35, Male, White, Carpenter & Joiner, RE $3,500, Pers. Estate $500, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born, Male U.S. Citizen Age 21 or more Line 11, Dwelling 120, Family 117, ROPER, Rosa, Age 19, Female, White, At Home, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born Line 12, Dwelling 120, Family 117, ROPER, Arthur A., Age 11/12, Male, White, Born California, Father Foreign Born, Born June. [Image 17 of 27 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * There is an inclination looking at this record to think that Horace and Rosa ROPER were the parents of Arthur, but this is NOT actually the case. As is readily apparent from Sion ROPER's 1860 Census record, Rosa [Resa] is Sion's daughter rather than daughter-in-law. See this record within my previous Post regarding Horace Henry ROPER's brother "Spencer ROPER (b Jun 1841 - Wetheringsett, Suffolk, England, d aft 1930), son of Sion and Sophia ROPER" [31 Dec 2005 6:48 AM GMT] at: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=785.1 There are also a couple of other clues that Arthur is Hoarce's son, but NOT Rosa's. Note that the indication is that Arthur's FATHER is Foreign Born, but his mother is NOT. Arthur was born in June 1869 in CALIFORNIA, NOT Illinois. * While Rosa is shown residing in her father's household in 1860, Horace was already out West: United States Census -- 1860 Quincy, Plumas County, California, Page 18 (Page renumbered "916") 18 Jun 1860 Line 3, Dwelling 303, Family 303, Horace ROPER, Age 25, Male, Carpenter, Born England Line 4, Dwelling 303, Family 303, Mat LYNCH, Age 21, Male, Printer, Born New York Line 5, Dwelling 303, Family 303, Benj DECKER, Age 25, Male, Carpenter, Born New York [Image 2 of 5 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * So Horace had already moved out West by 1860. There, we also find that he married: Horace H. ROPER m Theresa J. or T. COLE on 13 Nov 1864 / 30 Nov 1864 [Santa Clara Co., California, Volume Book B on Page 105] There appear to be TWO separate entires one on 13 Nov 1864 and a second on 30 Nov 1864. It is unclear whether the original scheduled wedding was merely delayed or whether the latter entry was a CORRECTING entry to reflect a correction of the middle initial. The first entry says "Theresa J. COLE" and the latter apparently says "Theresa T. COLE". In any case, Horace H. ROPER was married in California and it is here that his son Arthur seems to have been born in June 1869. * In my previous Post "Spencer ROPER (b Jun 1841 - Wetheringsett, Suffolk, England, d aft 1930), son of Sion and Sophia ROPER", I showed a transcription of the 1851 Census record for the Sion ROPER family then residing in Wetheringsett, Suffolk, England. That record shows Horace ROPER's place of birth as Debenham, Suffolk. There is also an extant parish register entry showing that Horace Henry ROPER was Christened on 09 OCT 1836 at Suffolk County Bts, Suffolk, England [IGI Batch No. C131811]. The IGI online transcription of this record shows Horace's full name to be "Horace Henry ROPER" and gives his parents names as "Lionn ROPER and "Mary Sophia". Horace Henry ROPER's brother Edwin Clarke ROPER was also Christened in this parish on this same date. * Older sister Julia Maria ROPER was Christened at Debenham: Julia Maria ROPER (Chr 12 JAN 1834 - Debenham, Suffolk, England), dau of Sion and Mary Sophy ROPER [IGI Batch No. C131791] Edwin was also Christened here, as well: Edwin Clerk ROPER (Chr 07 JUN 1834 - Debenham, Suffolk, England), son of Siam and Sepha ROPER * There is another cluster of Christenings for Sion and Sophia ROPER's children shown in IGI Batch C131972: Laura ROPER (Chr 14 MAR 1852 - Suffolk County Bts, Suffolk, England) Fanny Ellen ROPER (Chr 14 MAR 1852 - Suffolk County Bts, Suffolk, England) Rosa Jane ROPER (Chr 14 MAR 1852 - Suffolk County Bts, Suffolk, England) * It is less clear whether the parish record for this John ROPER is actually the record for John ROPER, son of Sion: John ROPER (b 11 MAR 1839, Chr 08 FEB 1841 - Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England), son of John and Sophia ROPER [IGI Batch No. C062361] THIS IS THE ONLY RECORD FOR A CHILD OF JOHN AND SOPHIA ROPER WITHIN THIS PARISH. Other Ropers born within this parish included: Robert ROPER (b 30 SEP 1815, Chr 22 OCT 1815 - Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England), son of Robert and Sarah ROPER Rosetta ROPER (b 22 JUN 1821, Chr 10 AUG 1821 - Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England), dau of Josiah and Rosetta ROPER Jem ROPER (Chr 01 FEB 1846 - Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England), son of Jem ROPER and Maria MILLER Emily ROPER (b Oct 1845, Chr 01 FEB 1846 - Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England, d 26 FEB 1846), dau of Jem ROPER and Maria MILLER [IGI Batch No. C062361] * By 1880, Horace Henry ROPER had returned to California and had apparently remarried: United States Census -- 1880 Santa Ana, Los Angeles County, California (Enumeration District 27), Page 44D 6 & 7 Jul 1880 Line 8, Dwelling 429, Family 429, ROPER, Horace, White, Male, Age 44, Married, Farmer, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 9, Dwelling 429, Family 429, ROPER, Martha, White, Female, Age 35, Wife, Married, Keeping House, Born Ohio, Father Born ???, Mother Born Ohio Line 10, Dwelling 429, Family 429, ROPER, Minnie, White, Female, Age 8, Daughter, Single, Born California, Father Born England, Mother Born Ohio Line 11, Dwelling 429, Family 429, ROPER, Norman, White, Male, Age 5, Son, Single, Born California, Father Born England, Mother Born Ohio Line 12, Dwelling 429, Family 429, HUBBARD, Mortimer??, White, Male, Age 23, None, Single, Farm Hand, Born California, Father Born Conn, Mother Born Missouri [Image 35 of 37 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1880 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * It appears that Horace's son Arthur ROPER didn't survive childhood. I have found no trace of either Horace or Martha ROPER after 1880. * * * Please Post any additional information you have regarding the family of Horace Henry ROPER!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Dauber, Dawber Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.6 Message Board Post: Amongst the English immigrants to America appearing in the 1870 Census was a William B. ROPER, age 74, born in England: United States Census -- 1870 Ward 5, Washington D.C., Page 192 22 Jul 1870 Line 9, Dwelling 1477, Family 1576, ROPER, Wm. B., Age 74, Male, White, Stone Cutter, RE $1,000, Pers. Estate $200, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born, Male Citizen of U.S. Over 21 Years Line 10, Dwelling 1477, Family 1576, ROPER, Ellen, Age 66, Female, White, Keeping House, Born Ireland, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born [Image 194 of 269 at the Ancestry.com presentation of Census data for this jurisdiction.] * It should be noted that the RELATIONSHIP between William B. ROPER and Ellen ROPER is NOT given in this Census record, so it is NOT certain that Ellen is William B. ROPER's WIFE. This William B. ROPER is somewhat problematic. There seems to be only a single Census record in the United States, that of 1870. I have been unable to find an 1860 Census record for this William B. ROPER in America. I was also unable to find an 1880 Census record. It is somewhat problematic to precisely ascribe William B. ROPER's year of birth from a single observation in the Census. We can impute a year of birth of 1796, but this is far from certain. The absence of children from the household further compounds the challenge in identfying William B. ROPER's origins. The only other detail which seems to be distinguishing is his occupation as a stone cutter. * Checking the 1861 English Census entries for a William ROPER, born about 1796 and a stone cutter, I found nothing of particular significance. Checking the 1851 English Census, I located a record for a William ROPER, age 56, of Wrightington, Lancashire, whose occupation was shown to be "Quarryman". This is as close to a "stone cutter" as I could find. Here are the details from the 1851 Census record: Wrightington, Lancashire, England 91 Robinhood, William ROPE, Head, Married, Male, Age 56, "Quairyman", Born Lancashire Wrightington Mary ROPE, Wife, Married, Female, Age 53, Born Lancashire Wrightington Betty DAUBER, Dau, Widowed, Female, Age 33, Cottonweave Hand Loom, Born Lancashire Wrightington Mary ROPER, Dau, Female, Age 17, Cottonweave Hand Loom, Born Lancashire Wrightington Ruth ROPER, Dau, Female, Age 13, Born Lancashire Wrightington Margaret DAUBER, Granddau, Female, Age 12, Born Lancashire Wrightington Mary Ann DAUBER, Granddau, Female, Age 9, Born Lancashire Wrightington William DAUBER, Grandson, Male, Age 7, Scholar, Born Lancashire Wrightington Ann DAUBER, Granddau, Female, Age 1, Born Lancashire Wrightington John ROPER, Grandson, Male, Age 6, Scholar, Born Lancashire Wrightington Elizabeth ROPER, Granddau, Female, Age 3, Born Lancashire Wrightington This William ROPER's daughter "Betty" seems to have been the Elizabeth ROPER who was married to John DAWBER in 1843: Eliz. ROPER m. John DAWBER 17 APR 1843 at Eccleston By Chorley, Lancashire, England [IGI Batch No. M005712] * The only OTHER ROPERs residing in Wrightington in 1851 were the ROPERs within the household of William and Catharine ROPER: Wrightington, Lancashire, England 2 Hungerhill, William ROPER, Head, Male, Age 43, Colliery Labourer, Born Lancashire Wrightington Catherine ROPER, Wife, Female, Age 37, Born Wales Flintshire Herdings William ROPER, Head, Male, Age 12, Born Lancashire Standish Richard ROPER, Head, Male, Age 8, Scholar, Born Lancashire Wrightington Thomas ROPER, Head, Male, Age 2, Born Lancashire Wrightington * It is unclear how this William ROPER is related to William ROPER (b abt 1796). * Looking forward to the 1861 Census, this same William ROPER seems to have been residing in Heskin, Lancashire: Heskin, Lancashire, England 80 Heskin Green, William ROPER, Head, Married, Male, Age 65, Ag Labor, Born Lancashire Wrightington Mary ROPER, Wife, Married, Female, Age 62, formerly hand loom weaver, Born Lancashire Wrightington Margaret ROPER, Granddau, Unm, Female, Age 16, winder in a cotton mill, Born Lancashire Wrightington Willliam DAWBER, Grandson, Unm, Male, Age 16, Drawer in a coal mine, Born Lancashire Wrightington John ROPER, Grandson, Unm, Male, Age 16, Drawer in a coal mine, Born Lancashire Wrightington Ann ROPER, Granddau, Female, Age 11, Scholar, Born Lancashire Wrightington James ROPER, Grandson, Male, Age 7, Scholar, Born Lancashire Heskin Ellen FINCH, Boarder, Unm, Female, Age 25, Formerly Domestic Servant, Lancashire Shevington * * * The ascription of William B. ROPER, stone cutter, of Washington, D.C., as William ROPER, of Wrightington, Lancashire is far from certain. One other possibility is the William B. ROPE, age 58, found in St. George, Camberwell, Surrey, in 1851. The age does NOT as precisely match and it is unclear how one proceeds from a career as a locksmith (1861) to a stone cutter (1870), but the middle initial looks correct. * There were twelve (12) ROPERs (or close variants) satisfying the search criteria "Wil*" AND "Rop*" AND Birth Year +/- 2 Yrs in the 1861 Englsih Census Census. NONE of these was a stone cutter. One of these, William ROPE, age 67, of Toxteth Park, Lancashire, was a laborer in a brick mill. NONE had a wife named "Eleanor" or "Ellen". One, William ROPER, age 63, of Louth, Lincolnshire, had a 25 year old daughter named Ellen. There was also a William ROPALL, age 65, in Great Eccleston, Lancashire who had a daughter, Ellen, age 41, residing in his household in 1851. * Perhaps as significant, is the ABSENCE of William ROPER (b abt 1796 - Lancashire) from Lancashire at the date of the 1871 Census enumeration. Of course, one possibility is that William ROPER has simply DIED between 1861 and 1871. But the CLOSEST record that appears to be a possible death of this William ROPER in Lancashire is the death recorded in the September 1866 Quarter, showing a William ROPER dying at age 66 (b abt 1800). [Wigan District, Sept 1866, Volume 8c, Page 2]. Amongst the William ROPERs residing in Lancashire in 1861, there are only five particularly compelling candidates to be the William ROPER whose death was recorded in 1866: William ROPALL (b abt 1796 - Great Eccleston,Lancashire), of Great Eccleston, Lancashire William ROPER (b abt 1796 - Wrightington, Lancashire), of Heskin, Lancashire [our best candidate for William ROPER, stone cutter] William ROPER (b abt 1803 - Barton, Lancashire), of Barton upon Irwell, Lancashire William ROPER, Sr. (b abt 1803 - Coppull, Lancashire), of Standish, Lancashire William ROPER (b abt 1805 - Capham, Norfolk), of Bootle cum Linacre, Lancashire NONE OF THESE CAN BE READILY FOUND IN THE 1871 CENSUS AND MUST HAVE EITHER DIED OR MOVED AWAY. * One other possibility is also presented by the appearance of a William B. ROPER, age 69, and Eleanor E. ROPER, age 66, in Laleham, Middlesex, in 1871. This William ROPER seems to be from Cleaver, Buckingham, and his wife is from Kennsington, Surrey. But this William ROPER seems to be a high powered Clerk and it seems unlikely that the stone cutter from Washington would have reappeared in the London area as a clerk the year following the 1870 U.S. Census enumeration. * Finally, I would point out that Mary ROPER, wife of William ROPER, of Wrightington and Heskin, Lancashire, is shown to be 53 in 1851 (b abt 1798) and 62 in 1861 (b abt 1799). The English Civil Registration Index shows the death of a Mary ROPER, age 69, recorded during the December 1866 Quarter at Stockport District [Volume 8a, Page 11]. It is far from certain that this is the widow of William ROPER, of Wrightington and Heskin, but it certainly MIGHT BE. Mary ROPER (b abt 1798-99) cannot be readily found in the 1871 English Census either. * * * This Post is NOT intended to be a conclsive argument that William B. ROPER, of Washington, was from Wrightington, Lancashire. Rather, it is intended as a presentation and discussion of notes for further research. * I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has additional insights as to the William B. ROPER's origins.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Hitchcock, Sanders, Heathcote, Gibbs Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.5 Message Board Post: Amongst English ROPER immigrants to America found in the 1870 Census is a George ROPER, age 40, residing in Denver, Colorado: United States Census -- 1870 Denver, Arapahoe County, Colorado, Page 46 13 Jun 1870 Line 20, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, George, Age 40, Male, White, Brick Mason & Builder, RE $15,000, Pers. Estate $1,500, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England, Male U.S. Citizen Over Age 21 Line 21, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, Hattie, Age 35, Female, White, Keeping House, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 22, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, Florence, Age 13, Female, White, Born New Jersey, Father Born England, Mother Born England, Attended School Within Year Line 23, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, Harriett, Age 7, Female, White, Born Kansas, Father Born England, Mother Born England, Attended School Within Year Line 24, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, George, Age 5, Male, White, Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 25, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, John, Age 3, Male, White, Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 26, Dwelling 423, Family 410, ROPER, Ida, Age 9/12, Female, White, Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England [Image 46 of 121 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * The birthplaces of the children give a rather precise indication of George and Harriett ROPER's migration across America. They were in Leavenworth, Kansas, at the date of the 1860 Census enumeration: United States Census -- 1860 2nd Ward, Leavenworth, Leavenworth County, Kansas, Page 103 (Page also numbered "673") 14 or 16 Jul 1860 Line 1, Dwelling 1024, Family 923, George ROPER, Age 30, Male, Plasterer, Born England Line 2, Dwelling 1024, Family 923, Harriet ROPER, Age 25, Female, Born England Line 3, Dwelling 1024, Family 923, William F. ROPER, Age 5, Male, Born England Line 4, Dwelling 1024, Family 923, Florence ROPER, Age 3, Female, Born New York [Image 103 of 193 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * This record seems to rather clearly place George and Harriett ROPER in England prior to 1856 and introduces some uncertainty as to whether they were in New York or New Jersey at the date of Florence's birth about 1857. The age given for both George and Harriett is precisely consistent with that shown in the 1870 enumeration and George appears to have been born about 1830, while Harriett seems to have been born about 1835. They must have married in England before William's birth about 1845. Searching the IGI for a marriage of a George and Harriet ROPER in England, we find that a George ROPER, son of Noah ROPER, married a Harriet SANDERS, daughter of Alexander SANDERS, on 29 JAN 1843 at Duffield, Derby, England [IGI Batch No. M049947]. Now the TROUBLE with ascribing this record to George and Harriet ROPER, of Denver, Colorado, is the persistent indication that George ROPER was born about 1830 and that Harriett was born about 1835. If this record were to pertain to George and Harriett ROPER, of Denver, it would seem that George married at age 13 and Harriett was only age 8! * But there doesn't seem to be another George ROPER marriage to a Harriett in the period PRIOR to 1855 in either the IGI or the English Civil Registration Index. One possibility is that the marriage of this George and Harriett ROPER is simply NOT recorded in either extant parish records or the Civil Registration Index proximate to 1855. Another possibility presents itself. This is the possibility that Harriett is NOT William F. ROPER's mother, but rather was a 2nd or subsequent wife to George ROPER after the death of William ROPER's mother. In this case, Geroge ROPER may have married Harriett in the perid AFTER William F. ROPER's birth, but prior to the 1860 Census enumeration showing George and Harriett ROPER already in America. Bear in mind that it appears that George and Harriett ROPER came to America between 1855 and 1857, as Florence is shown to be born in New York or New Jersey. And by 1860, George and Harriett are already in Kansas. * Study of the 1851 Census shows one particularly compelling candidate to be George ROPER (b abt 1830). This is the George ROPER enumerated within the household of Thomas and Lydia HEATHCOTE, of Chesterfield, Derbyshire. This George ROPER is shown to be age 20 in 1851 (b abt 1831), born in Sheffield, Derbyshire. Most importantly, he is shown to be a PLASTER, which is precisely the occupation listed inthe Census record of George ROPER, of Leavenworth in 1860! George ROPER is shown to be a "visitor" within this household. * The IGI suggests that this might be the George ROPER, son of Samuel ROPER, who married Lydia HITCHCOCK on 02 MAR 1854 at Wirksworth, Derby, England. [IGI Batch No. M059496] This is the marriage further shown within the English Civil Registration Index as the marriage of George ROPER and Lydia HICTCHCOCK recorded during the March 1854 Quarter at Belper, Derbyshire, in Volume 7b at Page 628. Consistent with this theory, there is a death of a Lydia ROPER recorded during March 1857 Quarter at Shoreditch, London / Middlesex at Volume 1c, Page 161. Someone with a keen interest in this family might want to get a look at this record. The closest IGI match I am able to find for a George ROPER b abt 1830 with father Samuel is: George William ROPER (b 30 JAN 1829, Chr 16 JUL 1829 - Independent, Thetford, Norfolk, England), son of Samuel ROPER and Mary Ann GIBBS. [IGI Batch No. C075261] It is unclear to me whether this is just a coincidence or a meaningful ascription. Admittedly, the Census record indicates that George ROPER was born in SHEFFIELD. But sometimes children are Christened in OTHER PLACES proximate to a Godparent. The fact that there was a six month delay in the Christening suggests that this COULD HAVE BEEN the case. There is a birth record of a William ROPER recorded at Sheffield, Yorkshire during June 1857 Quarter which probably also bears scrutiny. [Volume 9c, Page 258] * Whether the marriage record of George ROPER to Lydia HITCHCOCK is related, to George ROPER, of Denver, this George ROPER seems almost certainly to be RELATED TO John and Meriam ROPER, of Chesterfield, Derbyshire! The 1851 Census record for this family shows: District 4e, Chesterfield, Derbyshire 108 Church Lane, John ROPER, Head, Married, Male, Age 45, PLASTERER, Born Derbyshire Brampton Meriam ROPER, Wife, Married, Female, Age 44, Born Yorkshire Sheffield Elizabeth ROPER, Dau, Unmarried, Female, Age 23, Dressmaker, Born Yorkshire Sheffield Richard ROPER, Son, Unmarried, Male, Age 18, Born Yorkshire Sheffield John ROPER, Son, Male, Age 13, Scholar, Born Yorkshire Sheffield Sarah ROPER, Dau, Female, Age 11, Scholar, Born Yorkshire Sheffield William ROPER, Son, Male, Age 6, Scholar, Born Derbyshire Chesterfield Meriam ROPER, Dau, Female, Age 4, Scholar, Born Derbyshire Chesterfield I am inclined to believe based upon the PRECISE conformity of the ages and the fact that George ROPER fits so nicely between Elizabeth, age 23, and Richard, age 18, that George ROPER is actually the SON of John and Meriam ROPER! The common OCCUPATION of Plasterer CANNOT be a mere coincidence. At worst, John ROPER is George ROPER's UNCLE. But it seems far more likely that he is George ROPER's FATHER. In any case, I believe that we can state with some confidence that George ROPER, of Denver, Colorado was of Derbyshire origin. * The IGI shows us that the ROPER children born in Sheffield must be: Elizabeth ROPER (b 28 MAR 1828, Chr 31 DEC 1834 - Cathedral, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England), dau of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. 7834834]* John ROPER (b 11 APR 1830, Chr 31 DEC 1834 - Cathedral, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England), son of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. 7834834]* Richard ROPER (b 02 SEP 1832, Chr 31 DEC 1834 - Cathedral, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England), son of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. 7834834]* John ROPER (b 25 APR 1837, Chr 02 JUL 1837 - Cathedral, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England) ), son of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. 7834834]* * NOTE: This is NOT an IGI record from original parish records, but rather a SUBMITTED record from a secondary source. Other extant parish records showing births for this family in Derbyshire include: William ROPER (Chr 08 JAN 1845 - Chesterfield, Derby, England), son of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. C035862] Miriam ROPER (b 23 JAN 1847, Chr 12 MAR 1847 - Chesterfield, Derby, England), dau of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. C035862] Laurence James ROPER (b 15 JUL 1851, Chr 14 JAN 1852 - Chesterfield, Derby, England)son of John and Miriam ROPER [IGI Batch No. C035862] The John and Meriam ROPER family is the ONLY ROPER family residing within Chesterfield. There are five (5) ROPER families residing in Sheffield in 1851, headed by Sarah ROPER (b abt 1799 - Sheffield), Robert ROPER (b abt 1817 - Sheffield), Robert ROPER (b abt 1821 - Sheffield), Henry ROPER (b abt 1823 - Sheffield) and John ROPER (b abt 1823 - Sheffield). Alternatively, George ROPER certainly MIGHT have been Sarah ROPER's son. There IS a George ROPER shown to have been born in Sheffield to a Joseph and Sarah ROPER, but he appears to have been somewhat younger than the George ROPER who settled in Denver: George ROPER (b 05 AUG 1835, Chr 19 AUG 1835 - Cathedral, Sheffield, Yorkshire, England), son of Joseph and Sarah ROPER [IGI Batch No. 7834834] * There is a marriage record showing the marriage of a John ROPER to a Meriam BARKER on 30 JUL 1826 at Sheffield, Yorkshire, England, further clarifying the possible identity of George ROPER's parents. [IGI Batch No. A458544]. There were two George ROPERs and a Benjamin ROPER each also born in Brampton and old enough to be John ROPER's father, who were still living at the date of the 1851 Census enumeration. The Brampton ROPERs merit furhter investigation. * * * George and Harriett ROPER's 1880 Census record does relatively little to further illuminate their origins. They are still living in Denver: United States Census -- 1880 Denver, Arapahoe County, Colorado (Enumeration District 14), Page 23 or 25 (Page Imprinted "299") 07 Jun 1880 Line 1, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, George, White, Male, Age 50, Married, Builder, Paralysis, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 2, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, Harriet, White, Female, Age 45, Wife, Keeping House, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 3, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, Attie [Harriet], White, Female, Age 17, Daughter, At Home, Born Kansas, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 3, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, George, White, Male, Age 14, Son, At School, Attended School "9", Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 3, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, John, White, Male, Age 12, Son, At School, Attended School "9", Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 3, House No. 571, Dwelling No. 179, Family No. 185, ROPER, Ideline, White, Female, Age 10, Daughter, At School, Attended School "9", Born Colorado, Father Born England, Mother Born England. [Image 69 of 130 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1880 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * * * The AGES for George and Harriett ROPER are consistent with each of the previous enumerations. * * * I would appreciate receiving Posts in Reply from those with additional information regarding this Derbyshire ROPER family!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Handy, Foss Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.2.2 Message Board Post: In my Post "William P. ROPER (b abt 1816-21 - England, d aft 1870 - Prob CA)" [1 Jan 2006 2:08 AM GMT] at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=785.3 I noted the appearance of an Edwin ROPER (Chr 24 SEP 1817 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England), son of Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY, amongst the parish records of Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England [IGI Batch No. C010304]. I had noted in the Post above the appearance of Edward ROPIER (Chr 11 MAR 1817 - Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England), son of James and Mary ROPIER [IGI Batch No. C010203] amongst the parish records at Wolverhampton. Correspondent and English ROPER genealogist extraordinaire Michael John ROPER, of Norfolk, has shared with me several records from Walsall which further augment the argument that the Edwin ROPER I found amongst the 1851 Census records is the son of Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY rather than the son of James ROPER and Mary FOSS. Amongst other records, Michael furnished Census records from 1821 and 1831 showing the previous appearance of a Nicholas ROPER on Hill Street, Walsall: 1821 Census Nicholas Roper of Hill Street, Walsall - Locksmith 1831 Census Nicholas Roper of Hill Street, Walsall Nicholas ROPER did NOT seem to be a head of household in Walsall at the date of the 1811 Census. * Other records I have Posted show: Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY, who married on 21 FEB 1813 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England [IGI Batch No. M010723] This marriage probably first established Nicholas ROPER as an independant household in 1813. Next we have these Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England, parish records: James ROPER (Chr 01 OCT 1813 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) William ROPER (Chr 24 MAR 1816 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) Edwin ROPER (Chr 24 SEP 1817 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) Nicholas ROPER (Chr 22 OCT 1823 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) [IGI Batch No. C010304] And in 1851, Edwin ROPER appears in the Census residing at HILL STREET, Walsall. That record also shows his place of birth as "Staffordshire Walsall" and gives his age as "33". ALL of the records I cited for Edwin ROPER in WALSALL show the given name as "Edwin". ALL of the records for Edward ROPER of New Orleans and San Francisco show "Edward" or "Ed". I believe that the evidence that Edwin ROPER, of Hill Street, Walsall, is conclusive as to the identity of that Edwin ROPER as the son of Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY, though finding Nicholas ROPER's Will would really lace this up. By contrast, I believe that we may draw a strong inference that Edward ROPER, of San Francisco, was Edward ROPIER (Chr 11 MAR 1817 - Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England), son of James ROPER and Mary FOSS. Note that this inference is supported by the indication on Edward ROPER's 1900 Census record that he was born in March 1817. Wolverhampton is about 10 km from Walsall and Rushall is about 3 km to the Northeast of Walsall. These are all very easily walkable distances.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/777.1.2 Message Board Post: Thank you so much for the info, I really appreciate it. Leslie

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Jones Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.4 Message Board Post: One ROPER WIFE of English origin is shown in the 1880 Census as Mary Ann ROPER, age 47. This appears to be Mary Ann --- Jones ROPER (b abt 1830-33 - England, d aft 1880 - Prob CA). In the 1880 record, Mary A. ROPER is shown to be MARRIED (rather than widowed) and is residing in San Jose, California, with sons William D. and Alexander S. JONES: United States Census -- 1880 San Jose, Santa Clara County, California, (Enumeration Dist. 249) Page No. 13 (Page Imprinted "211") 09 Jun 1880 Line 5, Dwelling 84, Family 98, ROPER, Mary Ann, White, Female, Age 47, Keeping House, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 6, Dwelling 84, Family 98, JONES, William D., White, Male, Age 27, Son, Farmer, Born Indiana, Father Indiana, Mother Born England. Line 7, Dwelling 84, Family 98, JONES, Abraham S., White, Male, Age 15, Son, Attends School, Born California, Father Indiana, Mother Born England. [Image 13 of 24 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1880 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * This Mary Ann ROPER is pretty clearly a widow of a Mr. JONES. Checking the 1870 Census, we find: United States Census -- 1870 San Jose, Santa Clara County, California, Page No. 33 (Page Imprinted "222") 16 Aug 1870 Line 32, Dwelling 284, Family 248, JONES, Aaron Sen., Age 40, Male, White, Farmer, RE $3,930, Pers. Estate $915, Born Indiana, Male U.S. Citizen Over 21 Line 33, Dwelling 284, Family 248, JONES, Mary A.., Age 38, Female, White, Keeping House, Born England, Father Foreign Born, Mother Foreign Born Line 34, Dwelling 284, Family 248, JONES, William D.., Age 17, Male, White, Born Indiana, Mother Foreign Born Line 35, Dwelling 284, Family 248, JONES, Aaron Jr.., Age 14, Male, White, Born Indiana, Mother Foreign Born Line 36, Dwelling 284, Family 248, JONES, Abraham, Age 12, Male, White, Born California, Mother Foreign Born [Image 87 of 318 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * In 1860, the JONES family was residing in Indiana (notwithstanding the assertion that Abraham JONES was age 12 and born in California -- it appears that his age was EXAGERATED as young boys are sometimes given to do): United States Census -- 1860 Franklin Township, Floyd County, Indiana, Page No. 131 (Page also indicated "311") 20 Jul 1860 Line 32, Dwelling 998, Family 965, Aron JONES, Age 30, Male, Farmer, Pers. Estate $450, Born Indiana Line 33, Dwelling 998, Family 965, Mary JONES, Age 27, Female, Born Lond England Line 34, Dwelling 998, Family 965, William JONES, Age 7, Male, Born Indiana Line 35, Dwelling 998, Family 965, Aron JONES, Age 4, Male, Born Indiana [Image 16 of 20 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * We find that Mary Ann seems to have been from London, England. I have NOT found the maiden name of Mary Ann JONES. One possibility is the Mary Ann DANIEL (b abt 1832 - England) living nearby in Floyd County, IN. But there are other candidates, too. And Floyd County is adjacent to the Ohio River and other possibilities include residents of Kentucky. The 1850 Census record for Aaron JONES, age 20, reveals that he is residing in the same household with an Elizabeth JONES, age 60, and older brother James JONES, age 27. They are all residing in the household of Thomas and Maria DEWEY, of New Albany, Floyd County, IN. Perhaps someone familiar with this JONES family will know Mary Ann's maiden name. Nor have I ascertained which ROPER Mary Ann married between 1870 and 1880. It APPEARS from the indications in the Census records that this ROPER is ALIVE, but elsewhere. The fact that the 1890 Census was destroyed may make identification difficult. * Though this Mary Ann only married into the ROPER family, she is one of a number of ROPER surnamed English immigrants found in the Census in 1870 and 1880 for whom I am seeking to determine the precise English origins.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.2.1 Message Board Post: In preparing the previous Post above, I MISSED finding this record: Edwin ROPER (Chr 24 SEP 1817 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England), son of Nicholas and Sarah ROPER [IGI Batch No. C010304]. This couple seems to be Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY, who married on 21 FEB 1813 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England [IGI Batch No. M010723]. Those with an interest in this Edward ROPER may also take an interest in my Post: "William P. ROPER (b abt 1816-21 - England, d aft 1870 - Prob CA)" [1 Jan 2006 2:08 AM GMT] http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=785.3

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.3 Message Board Post: Amongst the very earliest ROPERs in California was William P. ROPER (b abt 1816-21 - England, d aft 1870 - Prob CA), an immigrant from England. The first clear trace I have found of this William ROPER is in New Orleans in 1850: United States Census -- 1850 New Orleans Municipality 3 Ward 1, Orleans Parish, Louisiana (Page Imprinted "27") 22 Jul 1850 Line 18, Dwelling 475, Family 576, Wm. ROPER, Age 34, Male, Peddler, Born England Line 19, Dwelling 475, Family 576, M. A. ROPER, Age 26, Female, Born Canada Line 20, Dwelling 475, Family 576, Joseph COOK, Age 25, Male, Steamboatsman, Born New York Line 21, Dwelling 475, Family 576, Mary COOK, Age 39, Female, Born Tennessee [Image 53 of 204 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1850 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * This record seems to closely conform in terms of personalities, age and origin with this 1860 Census record from San Francisco, California: United States Census -- 1860 The 2nd District, San Francisco, California, Page 97 (Page Imprinted "651") 19 Jun 1860 Line 9, Dwelling 893, Family 893, Wm. P. ROPER, Age 41, Male, Mulatto, Steward, RE $2,000, Pers. Estate $500, Born England Line 10, Dwelling 893, Family 893, Mary A. ROPER, Age 40, Female, Mulatto, Born Pennsylvania [Image 97 of 253 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * This William ROPER was still in San Franscisco in 1870: United States Census -- 1870 2nd Ward, San Francisco, California, Page 13 (Page Imprinted "143") 06 Jun 1870 Line 4, Dwelling 99, Family 110, COOK, Mary F., Age 38, Female, Black, Keeps Lodging House, Pers. Estate $400, Born Maryland Line 5, Dwelling 99, Family 110, ROPER William, Age 49, Male, Mulatto, Steamer Steward, RE $15,000, Pers. Estate $500, Born England Line 6, Dwelling 99, Family 110, GARRISON, Alfred, Age 28, Male, Mulatto, Laborer, Born Connecticut Line 7, Dwelling 99, Family 110, EVANS, Maria, Age 60, Female, Mulatto, None, Born Maryland [Image 146 of 1360 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * * * This William ROPER is variously identified as being 34 in 1850 (b abt 1816), age 41 in 1860 (b abt 1819), and age 49 (b abt 1821). This coupled with his particularly common given name "William" makes it somewhat problematic to find his English origins. There are literally dozens of possibilities and I do not believe that the Census data presents sufficient evidence for us to draw any strong inference. There are several possibilities that bear mention, though. First, since William's middle initial is shown to be "P" in the 1860 Census one possibility is: William Park ROPER (b 14 MAR 1821, Chr 22 APR 1821 - Priestgate Low Meeting House-Independent, Workington, Cumberland, England), son of John and Eleanor ROPER [IGI Batch No. C075591] Second, another possibility is presented by: William ROPER (Chr 24 MAR 1816 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England), son of Nicholas and Sarah ROPER [IGI Batch No. C010304] This is interesting because this seems to be a possible point of origin of the other very early English ROPER in San Francisco, Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900 - Prob CA). See my Post: "Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900 - Prob CA)" [1 Jan 2006 9:10 PM GMT] http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=surnames.roper&m=785.2 A third consideration is the indication that William P. ROPER was a mulatto appearing in the 1860 and 1870 Census data. There is a ROPER family of mixed race which which immigrated from England and settled in West Virginia. The earliest identifed English ancestor of this family was a Nicholas ROPER, of Suffolk, England. This presents another coincidence. While there are several indications that Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900 - Prob CA) was from Walsall (including the fact that he seems to have MARRIED there), the single best candidate I have found is an Edward ROPER shown in the 1851 Census residing with his brothers in Fressingfield, Suffolk. This Edward ROPER was born Cransford, Suffolk. This seems to possibly pull the clues together in favor of a single unified theory, namely that William P. ROPER might be William ROPER (Chr 24 MAR 1816 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England), son of Nicholas and Sarah ROPER, and that this Nicholas ROPER might also be linked to the Nicholas ROPER who is the common Suffolk ancestor of the West Virginia ROPER family. Now here is yet another coincidence. There is an Edwin ROPER born in Walsall to the SAME parents, whose date of birth is consistent with the Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900 - Prob CA): Edwin ROPER (Chr 24 SEP 1817 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England), son of Nicholas and Sarah ROPER [IGI Batch No. C010304]. * Nicholas and Sarah ROPER, of Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England, had at least these children: James ROPER (Chr 01 OCT 1813 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) William ROPER (Chr 24 MAR 1816 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) Edwin ROPER (Chr 24 SEP 1817 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) Nicholas ROPER (Chr 22 OCT 1823 - Saint Matthew, Walsall, Stafford, England) The parents appear likely to be the Nicholas ROPER and Sarah HANDY, who married on 21 FEB 1813 at Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England [IGI Batch No. M010723]. A common Staffordshire origin for several ROPER families might also present the possibility that the missing generation prior to Robert ROPER (b abt 1805 - Suffolk) shown as the father of Thomas Theophilus ROPER in some current lineages might have been that indicated by the parish record: Robert ROPER (Chr 12 JUL 1808 - Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England), son of Robert and Hannah ROPER [IGI Batch No. C010202] This would have been the Robert ROPER who married Hannah MANSFIELD on 19 OCT 1807 at Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England. * * * Please bear in mind that this Post contains a number of what must be considered to be SPECULATIVE ASCRIPTIONS. It is by no means certain that William P. ROPER, of San Francisco, was of the Staffordshire ROPER family. But there are several rather facinating clues. This William ROPER was identified as a mulatto and seems to have come to California from New Orleans. He arrived at about the SAME time as Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900 - Prob CA). Both were fabulously wealthy by 19th Century standards. Both married, but seem to have had no children of their own. Though there seem to be no descendants of either William P. ROPER and Edwin ROPER, a further study of these families may contribute to a better understanding of the families of the West Virginia ROPERs and a genetically similar ROPER family in Suffolk.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper, Reay, Stevenson, Cooper, Smith, Foss, Foster Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.2 Message Board Post: First appearing in America in the 1860 Census is an Edward or Edwin ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England, d aft 1900). In 1860, he is residing with wife Kate in the household of E.S. COOPER in San Francisco, California: United States Census -- 1860 District 10, San Francisco, California, Page 256 23 Jun 1860 Line 24, Dwelling 754, Family 783, E. S. COOPER, Age 37, Male, Surgeon, Pers Estate $1,000, Born Ohio .. Line 36, Dwelling 754, Family 783, Edwd ROPER, Age 40, Male, Painter, RE $15,000, Pers Estate $4,000, Born England Line 37, Dwelling 754, Family 783, Kate ROPER, Age 30, Female, Born England Line 38, Dwelling 754, Family 783, Lucy M. REAY, Age 15, Female, Born England [Image 94 of 195 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] This Edward ROPER is clearly one of the wealthiest ROPERs in America upon his arrival! * * * In 1870, Edward ROPER is residing within Ward 12 in San Francisco: United States Census -- 1870 2nd Precinct, Ward 12, San Francisco, California, Page 39 (Page Imprinted "793") 14 Jun 1870 Line 20, Dwelling 284, Family 279, ROPER Ed, Age 50, Male, White, Real Estate Broker, RE $250,000, Pers Estate $20,000, Born England, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth, Male Citizen of US Line 21, Dwelling 284, Family 279, ROPER Catharine, Age 42, Female, White, Keeping House, RE $40,000, Pers Estate $2,000, Born England, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth Line 22, Dwelling 284, Family 279, REAY, L. M., Age 25, Female, White, Without occup, Pers Estate $1,000, Born England, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth Line 23, Dwelling 284, Family 279, SMITH, T.? R., Age 17, Male, White, attends school, Pers Estate $500, Born Louisiana, Mother of Foreign Birth, Attended School within Year Line 24, Dwelling 284, Family 279, REAY, A. W., Age 32, Male, White, Hardware Wh. & Rtl., RE $40,000, Pers Estate $10,000, Born England, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth, Male Citizen of US Line 25, Dwelling 284, Family 279, Ye Man, Age 40, Male, Colored, Domestic Servant, RE Born China, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth [Image 158 of 328 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] A.W. REAY, then age 26, was already in San Francisco in 1860 residing with J.W. REAY, age 30, in District 5. They are shown to be Plumbers. A.W. REAY appears to be Alfred W. REAY and J. W. REAY is presumably J. William REAY, sons of David and Sarah REAY, who were residing in Baltimore, Maryland in 1850. This family seems to have come to America between the date of birth of Alfred about 1833 and the birth of Harriet REAY in Maryland about 1835. Cath. ROPER is already residing in this household in 1850 at age 23. It appears most likely that she is also a daughter of David and Sarah REAY. Inexplicably, I cannot find Edward ROPER in the Census in 1850. But this is at least consistent with his 1900 Census record, which shows that he emmigrated to America in 1860. It appears that wife Catherine first came to America to live with her family (or at least was visiting) at least a decade BEFORE Edward ROPER settled in America! * Checking the English Civil Registration Index, we find that there was a recorded marriage of Edward ROPER and Catherine REAY during the December Quarter 1841, within Walsall District, Staffordshire [at Volume 17, Page 247]. This seems to almost certainly be the marriage of Edward and Catharine Reay ROPER, found in San Francisco beginning in 1860. The IGI further confirms that Edward ROPER married Catherine REAY on 02 OCT 1841 at Rushall, Stafford, England [IGI Batch No. M056063]. The discovery of the marriage in Staffordshire also is suggestive that this Edward or Edwin ROPER is the same Edward ROPER shown is the parish records of Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire as: Edward ROPIER (Chr 11 MAR 1817 - Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England), son of James and Mary ROPIER [IGI Batch No. C010203] There are a number of other contemporary ROPER/ROPIER children within this parish who seem to be children of either James and Charlotte ROPIER or children of Benjamin and Lucy ROPIER. These include Michael, Thomas, James, Elizabeth, George and Timothy. The IGI also suggests to us that this Edward ROPER's parents were probably the James ROPER and Mary FOSS married on 09 MAY 1816 at Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England. It is unclear whether this is the SAME or a different James ROPER who married Charlotte FOSTER on 29 FEB 1808 at Saint Peter Or Collegiate, Wolverhampton, Stafford. At least one of the ROPER births within the parish AFTER that of Edward is ascribed to James and Charlotte ROPER, but this might have been a transcription error. This bears further research. The location of the ROPER-REAY marriage in Staffordshire also gives us some assurance that the Catharine REAY who married Edward ROPER must be: Catharine REAY (Chr 23 DEC 1821 - Bloxwich, Stafford, England), daughter of David and Sarah REAY [IGI Batch No. 7814631] * Looking for Edward ROPER in England in the 1851 Census is challenging, as there are no other family members to distinctly identify him. We are generally looking for an Edward or Edwin born about 1817 who is MARRIED, but whose wife is NOT present in the household. One such candidate is the Edward ROPER, age 35 (b abt 1816) residing in the household of his brother John ROPE, age 39, in Fressingfield, Suffolk. He is shown to be "Marrd", but the wife isn't living in this household. Brother Samuel ROPER, age 40, is also shown to be living in this same household. These ROPER brothers are shown to have been born in Cransford, Suffolk. But we have already found both marriage records and parish records which seem to suggest a Stafford origin for both Edward and Catharine Reay ROPER. So a record showing an Edward ROPER born in Suffolk doesn't seem to fit. The English Census record which seems to very particularly correspond raises some rather troubling questions. There is a record for an Edwin ROPER at 61 Hill Street, Walsall Borough, Staffordshire. This Edwin ROPER is shown to be age 33 in 1851 (b abt 1818) and is shown to have been born in Walsall, Staffordshire. So here we have an Edward/Edwin ROPER of precisely the CORRECT AGE and in the CORRECT PLACE to be the smae Edward ROPER who married Catharine REAY. However, this Edwin ROPER is shown to be married to a Maria ROPER, age 45, born Walsall. Here is what is shown in the 1851 Census records: District 2i?, Walsall Borough, Staffordshire 61 Hill Street, Edwin ROPER, Head, Married, Male Age 33, [occupation illegible], Born Staffordshire Walsall Maria ROPER, Wife, Married, Female Age 45, Born Staffordshire Walsall William STEVENSON, Son, Unm, Male Age 25, Boat & Shoe Maker, Born Staffordshire Walsall Catharine STEVENSON, Dau, Unm, Female Age 15, Born Staffordshire Walsall William BREARLY??, Apprentice, Unm, Male Age 15, Boat & [occupation illegible], Born Staffordshire Burton on Trent The illegible occupation in the instance of William BREARLY appears to say "Carb Maker". The first part of Edwin ROPER's occupation seems to say "Curb Maker". One possibility is "Cask Maker". * The trouble with this record, of course, is that it appears to show that Edwin ROPER is married to a Maria, age 45 (b abt 1806), in 1851 AT THE SAME TIME that he is married to Catharine Reay ROPER, who is already residing in America. The two STEVENSON children appear to be consistent with children born to a William and Ann STEVENSON in Ipstones, Stafford, England [IGI Batch No. C096841], but this should be considered a SPECULATIVE ascription. Of course it is POSSIBLE that the Census enumerator simply MISUNDERSTOOD the relationship between Edwin ROPER and Maria. One possibility is that the STEVENSON children were orphaned and that Edwin ROPER is thier guardian or adoptive father. If Maria was their stepmother, and still living in the household, these facts might cause some confusion. I am inclined to believe that the STEVENSON children found in Ipstones who seem to fit nicely by age with the William and Catharine STEVENSON residing within Edwin ROPER's household are children of William STEVENSON (b abt 1802)and Anne MYCOCK (b abt 1802), who married in that parish on 02 JUN 1823. Similarly, Maria ROPER might have been the widowed sister of Edwin ROPER. * But an indication that the Edward and Maria ROPER record of 1851 may have merely been a DIFFERENT Edwin/Edward ROPER from roughly the same place is underscored by the reappearance of an Edwin ROPER, age 43 (b abt 1818), in Walsall, Staffordshire in the 1861 Census enumeration. He is shown to be a "Victualler and Malster" and is residing with wife Johanna, age 39. And this Edwin ROPER is again shown to be residing at Queens Head, 16 Hill Street, Walsall, with wife Johanna, at the date of the 1871 Census enumeration. The English Civil Registration Index suggests that this couple must be the Edwin ROPER who married Johanna BECKETT and whose marriage was registered during December Quarter 1858 at Kings Norton, Staffordshire Warwickshire Worcestershire at Volume 6c, Page 688. Johanna ROPER seems to have died at age 52 in Walsall in 1871. * On balance, it would APPEAR that Edward ROPER (b Mar 1817 - England) and Edwin ROPER (b abt 1817) were DIFFERENT people. And it is UNCLEAR whether the ascription of Edward ROPER as the son of James and Mary ROPIER, of Wolverhampton, Stafford, England, is actually CORRECT. But it DOES seem most likely that the Edward ROPER found in San Francisco was of Staffordshire origins. At least his marriage to Catharine REAY is clearly at that location. * In 1880, Edward and Kate ROPER are again found in San Francisco: United States Census -- 1880 San Francisco, California, (Enumeration District 212B) Page 3 (Page Imprinted "243") 08 Jun 1880 Line 41, House No. 521, Dwelling 19, Family 19, ROPER, Edward, White, Male, Age 63, Married, Real Estate Agent, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 42, House No. 521, Dwelling 19, Family 19, ROPER, Kate, White, Female, Age 58, Married, Keeping House, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 43, House No. 521, Dwelling 19, Family 19, REAY, Alfred W., White, Male, Age 40, Border, Single, At Home, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 44, House No. 521, Dwelling 19, Family 19, LASY, Son Colored, Male, Age 21, Single, Servant, Born Hong Kong, Father Born China, Mother Born China [Image 43 of 48 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1880 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * By 1900, Kate seems to have died and Edward ROPER is living alone in San Jose: United States Census -- 1900 San Jose, Santa Clara County, California, (Enumeration District 63) Sheet No. 17 25 Jun 1900 Line 28, Dwelling 348, Family 349, ROPER, Edward, Head, White, Male, Born Mar 1817, Age 83, Widowed, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England, Immigrated in 1860, 40 Years in the Uninted States, Naturalized. [Image 33 of 38 at the Ancestry.com presentation of 1900 Census data for this jurisdiction.] Please note that this record expressly indicates Edward ROPER's month and year of birth as March 1817. This precisely corresponds with the given parish record from the IGI, but the appearance of another Edwin ROPER in Staffordshire of precisely the same age adds some uncertainty. * * * I would appreciate receiving posted information from anyone with other specific information regarding this ROPER family.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Theodore W. Roper married to Rhoda Ann Kelley Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:25:05 -0700 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/784.1 Message Board Post: Douglas: I do NOT have any specific knowledge or information regarding this family, EXCEPT that I would recommend to you the data which is readily available from the United States Census and from which some additional inferences might be drawn. First, from the 1880 Census we find that Theodore's parents were both born in ENGLAND: United States Census -- 1880 Eureka, Jefferson, Nebraska, Page 21 15 Jun 1880 Line 14, Dwelling 3, Family 3, ROPER, Theodore, White, Male, Age 27, Head, Married, Farmer, Born MO, Father Born England, Mother Born England Line 15, Dwelling 3, Family 3, ROPER, Rhoda, White, Female, Age 24, Wife, Married, Born IL, Father Born IL, Mother Born PA Line 16, Dwelling 3, Family 3, ROPER, Charles F., White, Male, Age 4, Son, Single, Born NE, Father Born MO, Mother Born IL Line 17, Dwelling 3, Family 3, ROPER, Albert, White, Male, Age 3, Son, Single, Born KS, Father Born MO, Mother Born IL [Image 2 of 8 at the Ancestry.com presentation of Census data for this jurisdiction.] Though this record also ASSERTS that he was born in MISSOURI, I am NOT particularly confident that this is actually TRUE for reasons discussed below. * Accordingly, I would be inclined to think that we would be looking for a ROPER family with both parents born in England, which was residing in the Illinois or Missouri area circa 1852. However, I would also caution you against any firm resolve that Theodore W. ROPER was actually born in St. Louis, Missouri, as represented. I would NOT accept that assertion as FACT even if that seems to be what was represented in the Census data. I would encourage you to remain open to the possibility that Theodore W. ROPER might have actually been born in ENGLAND and merely found it CONVENIENT to represent that he had been born in the United States. * I would suggest four approaches to finding Theodore's parents. First, I would accept all of the assertions from the 1880 Census records as TRUE and look for a ROPER family residing in Illinois or Missouri at the date of the 1850 Census. I include "Illinois" as well as Missouri, because in the 1870 Census enumeration, Theodore ROPER is shown to be living in Big Sandy, Jefferson County, Nebraska, at age 17, and his place of birth is shown in that Census record to be ILLINOIS rather than Missouri. Second, I would accept all of the assertions as TRUE with the additional assumption that this ROPER family might have arrived in America AFTER 1850 but BEFORE Theodore's birth in 1852. I would then look for candidates in Illinois, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas in the 1860 Census. Third, I would relax the assumption and consider the possibility that Theodore was actually born in England and arrived in America with his family as a young boy, possibly even after 1860. To this end, I would look for a male ROPER child of the correct age in the 1860 Census born in ENGLAND and would look for English ROPERs near where Theodore ROPER is found in the 1870 Census enumeration, on the theory that he would not have ventured very far from home at age 17. Finally, I would consider the likelihood that Theodore's migration to Nebraska and Kansas and possibly even Colorado may have paralleled the migration of his parents or brothers and would look for other nearby ROPERs of English origin near where Theodore ROPER was residing in 1880. * Looking at the 1850 Census, there is really only ONE ROPER family which seems to be a singularly good candidate to have been that of Theodore ROPER based upon the criteria identified above. That is the family of Joseph and Sarah ROPER, of Naples, Scott County, Illinois. This family consists of Joseph ROPER, age 49 (b abt 1801), Sarah, age 47 (b abt 1803), William, age 20 (b abt 1830), Robert, age 11, Caroline, age 7, and Thomas, age 5. Joseph, Sarah and William were each born in England. Robert, Caroline, and Thomas are each shown to have been born in Illinois. We may infer from the ages and places of birth that this family must have come to America after William's birth about 1830, but before Robert's birth about 1839. We would expect to find them in the 1840 Cesnus but probably NOT in the 1830 Census. And they were probably enumerated in the 1831 Census of England. William is old enough to have been Theodore's father. Sarah is probably NOT too old to have at least one more child in 1852. It isn't readily apparent what became of Joseph and Sarah ROPER and their son William. I do NOT find any clear traces of this family in the 1860 Census. There are NO OTHER ROPERs who are similarly compelling candidates based upon the 1850 Census. There ARE a few English ROPERs in Ohio, New York and Pennsylvania who COULD HAVE migrated to Missouri after 1850, but none of these are already in place. Missouri would have been a very natural migration path for Ohio ROPERs and a number of these went that route following the Ohio River downstream to the Mississippi and then following the Missouri River upstream. * The 1860 Census enumeration presents us with some new possibilities. First, is the family of Sion and Sese (or Sefe) ROPER, residing in Spring, Boone County, Illinois (Belvidere Post Office). Sion is age 48 and his wife is 45. Children are Resa, age 9, and Spencer, age 15. It is unclear why the younger female Resa is listed before the older male Spencer, but the sequence suggests that Spencer may NOT be Sion's son. ALL members of this household were born in England. But there are NO CHILDREN of Theodore's approximate age and it seems a little unlikely that an eight year old child would have been sent away to live in a different household. The Sion ROPER appearing in Illinois is very clearly the SAME Sion ROPER found in the 1851 English Census residing at Wetheringsett, Suffolk. The 1851 Census record clarifies that his wife's name is actually Sophia. This couple was shown to be age 41 (b abt 1810) and 42 (b abt 1809), respectively in 1851. The children shown in the 1851 Census record are Julia, age 18, Edwin, age 16, Horace, age 15, Annah, age 12, John, age 11, Spencer, age 9, Laura, age 6, and Fanny, age 4. The Edwin ROPER, age 26, shown on the immediate preceeding Census page in 1860, who is shown to be born in ILLINOIS, can only be Sion's son Edwin, born in Debenham, Suffolk about 1835. Also residing within this same township in 1860 is the family of Thomas and Rhoda ROPER, aged 33 and 34, respectively. Thomas (b abt 1827) and Rhoda ROPER (b abt 1826) have six children living in their household: James, age 13, Joseph, age 11, Charles, age 8, Walter, age 6, Ellen, age 4, and Frederick, age 4/12. The eldest son, James is shown to have been born in England. The youngest child, Freeric is shown to have been born in Illinois. THERE IS NO INDICATION AS TO THE PLACE OF BIRTH OF JOSEPH, CHARLES, WALTER AND ELLEN. One possibilty that bears considering is that Rhoda may have been Thomas ROPER's second wife. She may have married THomas ROPER in Illinois and might have been the mother of Frederick. She KNEW that the eldest son was born in England, but did NOT KNOW precisely WHERE the other younger children were born within the United States. This theory is supported by the appearance within the IGI of a marriage record showing the marriage of a Thomas ROPER to Rhoda NUTTALL on 30 Apr 1859, at Boone, Illinois. [IGI Batch No. M730351] The most compelling English candidate to be this Thomas ROPER is the Thomas ROPER, shown to be age 40 in the 1851 English Census enumeration and residing within his father's household in Derby St Alkmund, Derbyshire. Though this Thomas ROPER's age is rather significantly DIFFERENT (b abt 1801 rather than b abt 1827) there is a son named James, who is precisely the CORRECT age, at 4. This Thomas ROPER's father is James ROPER, age 70. Thomas ROPER's wife is Elizabeth, who is shown to be age 25. This seems to be a Nottingham ROPER family displaced to Derbyshire. The THomas and Elizabeth ROPER family incuded these children in 1851: Elizabeth, age 10; Mary, age 8; Thomas, age 6; James, age 4; and Anne, age 8. It is unclear why Anne is out of age sequence in the enumeration. The IGI informs us that this is James Twyball ROPER (Chr 04 MAR 1848 - Saint Alkmund, Derby, Derby, England) [IGI Batch No. C055371], son of Thomas and Elizabeth ROPER. The elder brother is Thomas Twible ROPER (Chr 23 NOV 1845 - Saint Alkmund, Derby, Derby, England). Anna may be Rosanna ROPER (01 OCT 1846 - Saint Alkmund, Derby, Derby, England), daughter of Joshua and ELizabeth ROPER, perhaps a niece who has been adopted. A Sarah ROPER (b 02 JUN 1849, Chr 01 JUL 1849 - Saint Alkmund, Derby, Derby, England) is also shown to be a daughter of THomas and Elizabeth ROPER. The elder THomas appears likely to be the Thomas ROPER (Chr 08 AUG 1802 - Langar Cum Barnston, Nottingham, England), shown to be a son of James and Ann ROPER [IGI Batch No. C044831]. Unfortunately, the trouble with this ascription is that the Thomas and Elizabeth ROPER family seems to still be residing at St. Alkmund, Derbyshire, at the date of the 1861 English Census. They also have a son John, age 9, a son William, age 5 (b abt 1856), a daughter Sarah, age 3, and a son Henry, who is shown to be 2 months old at the date of the enumeration. Accordingly, it appears to me that the ascription doesn't seem to really match the Thomas ROPER family of Illinois. Now here is an interesting coincidence, though. You have asserted that Theodore's middle initial is "W". Does the "W" stand for Walter?? Here is a child Walter ROPER, age 6, within the Thomas and Rhoda ROPER family in Illinois, who is roughly the CORRECT AGE to be Theodore W. ROPER. And he has parents both born in England. He also has a brother named "Charles", which seems to have been the name of Theodore's first son. And coincidentally, his mother's name appears to be "Rhoda", the SAME given name of the girl he marries! There does NOT appear to be a particularly compelling candidate for this same Thomas ROPER within the 1850 United States Census. The best choices would seem to be Thomas ROPER of East Boston and Thomas ROP, age 26, of St. Louis, Missouri. The former was shown to be born in England and the latter was shown to be born in Ireland. Next, we have the household of John and Meram ROPER, of Aledo, Mercer County, Illinois, age 30 (b abt 1830) and 29 (b abt 1831), respectively. This couple has three children: John W., age 8, Nancy E., age 6, and George L. (or P.), age 1. John, Meram and John W. are shown to have been born in England. Nancy and George were born in Illinois. In Montezuma, Pike County, Illinois, are "A. ROPER", age 29, William ROPER, age 20, and "H. A. ROPER" age 15. The elder two are male and born in England. Both are shown to be plasterers. The younger "H. A. ROPER" is female and born in Missouri. There are no younger children in this household. There is also a Wade and Anne ROPER, in Montezuma, Pike County. Wade is age 25 and Ann is 23. Both were born in England. They have two daughters, Clara E., age 3, and M. O., age 1. George and Harriett ROPER, of Leavenworth, Kansas, age 30 (b abt 1830) and 25 (b abt 1825), respectively, are also both born in England. George is also a plasterer, and by occupation seems likely to be related to the Pike County ROPERs. George and Harriett have two children: William F., age 5 and born in England, and Florence, age 3 and born in New York. It therefore appears that this couple left England after 1865 but before 1867 and came to Kansas from New York after 1867. The family of Philip and Mary ROPER, of St. Louis, Missouri is certainly in the RIGHT PLACE. Philip was age 38 (b abt 1822) and Mary was 34 (b abt 1826) in 1860. I am unable to discern the names of the first and third child. The middle child is Catharine, age 7. It is probably sufficient, though, to note that the eldest child is a female of age 12 and the youngest is a male of age 2. The index seems to indicate that the eldest is Ann. ALL SEEM TO HAVE BEEN BORN IN ENGLAND. This is the entire universe of ROPER families of English origin in the Illinois, Missouri, Kansas areas in 1860. * One interesting clue is that Walt ROPER (b abt 1854), son of Thomas and Rhoda ROPER, drops completely out of sight in 1870. But the theory that Walter ROPER and Theodore W. ROPER might be one and the same seems to be dashed by the reappearance of Walter ROPER in the household of Byron and Nellie BENNETT in 1880. Nellie seems to be the Ellen ROPER shown in the 1860 Census record. But both Walter and Nellie appear not to have aged as much as expected. Walter is 25 and Nellie is 22 in 1880. * But in 1880, we have yet another clue. Thomas ROPER, age 50 (b abt 1830 - ENGLAND), Charles ROPER, age 28 (b abt 1852 - ENGLAND), Frederick ROPER, age 20 (b abt 1860 - Illinois), William J., age 17 (b abt 1863 - Illinois), and Reuben, age 14 (b abt 1866 - Illinois) all turn up in Washington County, Kansas, which is the county to the immediate SOUTH of Jefferson County, Nebraska. William J. and Reuben are also expressly identified as "Son"s of Thomas ROPER. * In attempting to ascribe the correct birthplace and parents for Theodore W. ROPER, we may also look at evidence in extant records of Theodore's sons. In the 1900 Census, there is a Census record for a Charles F. ROPER, age 25, born Aug 1874 or 75, residing with wife Flosy C. ROPER, age 25, born Dec 1874, and brother-in-law Percy CLARK, age 16, born May 1884 (this record is incorrectly Indexed at Ancestry as a "Charles C. ROPER". CHarles F. ROPER is shown to have been born in NEBRASKA to parents born in ENGLAND and MICHIGAN. Flosy is shown to have been born in Iowa to parents born in Ohio and Indiana. In 1910, there is a Charles H. ROPER, age 35, married 10 years, with wife Flor E. ROPER, age 36, residing in Ward 1 (University Place), Lancaster County, Nebraska. THey have three children: C??? R., age 9; Helen M., age 7; and Max E. age 4, all born in Nebraska. Charles H. ROPER is shown to have been born in Nebraska to parents born in ENGLAND and Illinois. Florence is shown to have been born in Iowa to parents born in Ohio and Iowa. In 1920, Charles H. and Floy E. ROPER, age 45 and 46, are still shown to be living in University Place, Lancaster County, Nebraska. Charles ROPER is still shown to have been born in Nebraska to parents born in ENGLAND and Illinois. The children's names are shown to be Reginald C., age 18, Marguerite, age 16, and Max E. ROPER, age 14. In 1930, Charles H. and Loy E. ROPER, age 55 and 56, are in Lincoln, Lancaster County, Nebraska (The record is incorrectly indexe as "Clas H ROEPR"). Charles H. ROPER has his birthplace as Nebraska and his parents birthplaces as ENGLAND and Illinopis, as before. In the 1900 Census, there is a Census record for an Albert ROPER, age 19 or 20, born Sep 1880. He is shown to have been born in KANSAS to parents born in Indiana and Illinois. This Albert ROPER is a barber and is a roomer in an Omaha rooming house. In the 1920 Census, there is a Census record for an Albert ROPER, age 42 (b abt 1878), born KANSAS, whose FATHER is asserted to have been born in OHIO and whose mother is asserted to have been born in ILLINOIS. He is married to a Rosa ROPER, age 44, born in Nebraska. They are residing in Franklin, Filmore County, Nebraska. This is the County to the immediate Northwest of the county where Theodore ROPER first seems to appear in 1870 and near where brother Charles seems to be living. In the 1930 Census, Albert W. and Rosa M. ROPER, age 53 and 54, are enumerated again in Franklin, Fillmore County, Nebraska. Albert still shows his place of birth as Kansas with Father born in MISSOURI and Mother born in Illinois. Charles ROPER seems to consistently assert in the Census records that his father was born in ENGLAND. Younger brother Albert ROPER shows his father's birthplace variously as Indiana, Ohio, and Missouri. While the 1870 Census record for Theodore says "Illinois" and the 1880 Census record says "Missouri", for all we know this information might have been furnished to a Census enumerator by another member of the household who did not know the correct answer. * Tying up a few other loose ends, it is probably noteworthy that an "Ancestral File" available at the LDS website ( http://www.familysearch.com ) shows Theodore W. ROPER's full name as Theodore William ROPER. The reliability of this information is a bit uneven, but it bears mention. This presents the possibility that one of the records in the English Civil Registration Index for a birth of a William ROPER might also be relevant. There are three William ROPER births shown to have been recorded during the June Quarter 1852: William ROPER recorded Beaminster District, Dorset Somerset, at Volume 5a, Page 381; William ROPER recorded at Southampton District, Hampshire, at Volume 2c, Page 23; and the William ROPER recorded at West Bromwich District, Shropshire, at Volume 6b, Page 569. Someone with a keen interest in this family might want to obtain and check those records. * We must also NOT discount the possibility that Theodore ROPER (b abt 1853) might have been the SON (or other relative) of Hannah HELVEY, age 32 (b abt 1838 - ENGLAND), in whose home he was residing in Big Sandy, Jefferson County, Nebraska, in 1870. Hannah is married to Thomas HELVEY, age 35. Hannah is shown to have been born in England and the eldest HELVEY child is age 9. But checking the 1860 Census, we find that Thomas and Hannah HELVEY were already married in 1860 and had a child Harriett, age 1, who seems NOT to have survived. They were living in Jones County, Nebraska Territory that year at the Daniels Ranch. It doesn't seem to make much sense that Hannah might have remarried but NOT had her son with her in 1860 if she was in fact a ROPER before. Some further investigation as to what became of Hannah HELVEY is probably indicated. * If Theodore W. ROPER was actually born in ENGLAND, we must not rule out the possibility that he travelled to America as a young man WITHOUT his parents. The single best candidate by age, would appear to be Theodore ROPER, age 9, residing in the household of his parents Christopher and Allison ROPER, ages 36 and 35, in Berwick upon Tweed, Northumberland, in the 1861 English Census enumeration. Other children included John ROPER, age 14, James ROPER, age 11, Elizabeth ROPER, age 11, Frank ROPER, age 4, and David ROPER, age 1. This Theodore ROPER doesn't seem to be in England in 1871! This seems most likely to be the Theodore Taylor ROPER, whose birth was recorded at Volume 10b, Page 272, in Berwick District, Northumberland during March Quarter 1852. * Finally, I would close with the thought that I have been UNABLE to find ANY TRACE that a Theodore William ROPER was in the United States at the date of the 1860 United States Census OTHER THAN the indications shown above. And I am fairly accomplished at finding even obscure and poorly indexed records. For this reason, I am more inclined to believe the assertions appearing within Charles ROPER's Census records that Theodore was born in ENGLAND. You mention in your post that the place of death was Burlington, Colorado. I would caution you against accepting the assertion that the place of birth was St. Louis, EVEN IF THIS APPEARED on Theodore ROPER's death certificate. Bear in mind that personal information appearing on death certificates is usually furnished to local authorities by members of the immediate family. If Albert ROPER was the person furnishing the information, we can see that he might have indicated something other than England. A rather central question I have is whether Theodore's wife Rhoda predeceased him or whether she was alive at the date of his death. One would expect that Rhoda would have had the BEST INFORMATION regarding Theodore's origins. If she predeceased him, then Charles probably had the next best inforation, with Albert, as the youngest child, probably having the least direct information regarding his father's origins. * * * Is there other information you can share with us regarding this Theodore ROPER's life. What else do you know of his wife Rhoda or his descendants? If you know of a male ROPER-surnamed descendant, we also might be able to make some strong inferences about Theodore ROPER's origins by obtaining a DNA test sample from one of his descendants. There is an ongoing ROPER DNA Study supervised by Dr. L. David ROPER. For more information on that study, see his site at http://www.roperld.com .

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785.1 Message Board Post: Spencer ROPER first appears in the 1860 Census residing with his parents Sion and Sophia ROPER in Spring, Boone County, IL: United States Census -- 1860 Spring, Boone County, IL (Belvidere Post Office), Page 415 17 Jun 1860 Line 1, Dwelling 372, Family 367, Sion ROPER, age 48, Male, Farmer, RE $1,500, Pers Estate $400, Born England Line 2, Dwelling 372, Family 367, Sofe [Sophia] ROPER, age 45, Female, Wife, Born England Line 3, Dwelling 372, Family 367, Resa ROPER, age 9, Female, Born England Line 4, Dwelling 372, Family 367, Spencer ROPER, age 15, Male, Born England [Image 15 of 28 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1860 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * In 1870, he is enumerated in Round Valley, Mendocino, California: United States Census -- 1870 Round Valley Township, Mendocino, California Page Imprinted 220 03 Aug 1870 Line 37, Dwelling 110, Family 105, ROPER, Spencer, age 28, Male, White, Born England, Father of Foreign Birth, Mother of Foreign Birth. [Image 9 of 12 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1870 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * In 1880, he is enumerated in Santa Clara, California: United States Census -- 1880 Santa Clara, Santa Clara County, California, Page 42 17 Jun 1880 Line 49, Dwelling 449, Family 494, ROPER, I. Spencer, White, Male, age 37, Married, Fruit Buyer, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 50, Dwelling 449, Family 494, ROPER, Emeline, White, Female, age 36, Married, Keeping House, Born Illinois, Father Born England, Mother Born England. [Image 42 of 49 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1880 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * In 1900, Spencer ROPER is enumerated in San Jose, California: United States Census -- 1900 San Jose Ward 1, Santa Clara County, California, Page 42 09 Jun 1900 Line 42, House No. 156, Dwelling 273, Family 319, ROPER, Spencer, Head, White, Male Born June 1841, Age 58, Married 27 Yrs, Born England, Father Born England, Mother Born England, Immigrated 1853, Commercial Merchant. Line 43, House No. 156, Dwelling 273, Family 319, ROPER, Emeline, Wife, White, Female Born July 1842, Age 57, Married 27 Yrs, 0 Children, Born Illinois, Father Born England, Mother Born England. Line 44, House No. 156, Dwelling 273, Family 319, BECKINGTON?, Olive?, Niece, White, Female Born Mar 1882, Age 18, Single, Born Illinois, Father Born Illinois, Mother Born England, Student. [Image 33 of 52 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1900 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * In 1851, Sion and Sophia ROPER and their family were enumerated in Wetheringsett, Suffolk: No. 60, Sion ROPER, Head, Married, Age 41, Farmer 50 acres emplying 1 man, Born Suffolk, Wetheringsett. Sophia ROPER, Wife, Married, Age 42, Farmers Wife, Suffolk, Bury St. Edmonds Julia ROPER, Daughter, Unm, Age 18, Farmer's Dau, Suffolk Medlesham Edwin ROPER, Son, Unm, Age 16, Farmer's Son, Suffolk Debenham Horace ROPER, Son, Unm, Age 15, Farmer's Son, Suffolk Debenham Annah ROPER, Daughter, Age 12, Scholar, Suffolk Wetheringsett John ROPER, Son, Age 11, Scholar, Suffolk Wetheringsett Spencer ROPER, Son, Age 9, Scholar, Suffolk Wetheringsett Laura ROPER, Daughter, Age 6, Suffolk Wetheringsett Fanny ROPER, Daughter, Age 4, Suffolk Wetheringsett [Image 18 of 29 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1851 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * It appears that this Spencer ROPER is probably the child registered as "Spencer Isaac ROPER" in the English Civil Registration Index during the Sep 1841 Quarter in Hartismere District Suffolk at Volume 13, Page 391. I have NOT seen the underlying record.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/785 Message Board Post: I intend to endeavor to Post a series of messages as Replies to this Message Thread organizing and presenting some of my notes regarding the English origins of various 19th Century ROPER immigrants. I am beginning with notes regarding the origins of ROPERs born in England who appeared within the 1870 United States Census. I hope to subsequently elaborate from there. Please feel free to supplement the information I am posting with additional information known to you about these families. Also,please feel free to INQUIRE about a particular immigrant who is of particular interest to YOU.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/777.1.1 Message Board Post: Please disregard the erroneous statement: "You will recall that Benjamin R. ROPER had a Sarah ROPER residing in his household in 1850". Benjamin's wife Susan was in this household, but Sarah was NOT.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Roper Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/kgDBAEB/777.1 Message Board Post: As you are no doubt aware, the 1840 Census data shows names only for the "head of household" and counts as to various other individuals residing within each household. The concept of "head of household" is somewhat vague. While this was usually the senior MALE in the household, this was NOT universally true. Very often, the individual who OWNED the land was viewed as the head of the household, though even this wasn't universally true. If a widow owned the farm or plantation and one of the sones or even a favored son-in-law operated the farm or plantation that individual who oversaw the farm might be designated the "head of household". Another consideration was whether the sennior male was married with children. If the eldest male was still single, the widow might have been shown as the head of household. In 1840, there were three ROPER households shown in the Census. These were: Fred S. ROPER: 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 6 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 [1840, Image 9, 10 of 52*] Sarah ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 5 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 [1840, Image 9, 10 of 52*] John W. ROPER: 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 9 -- 0 - 5 - 0 - 0 [1840, Image 4, 5 of 52*] * Image references show the image number at the Ancestry.com presentation of the Census data for for Hyde, NC. * * * You will recall that Benjamin R. ROPER had a Sarah ROPER residing in his household in 1850: United States Census -- 1850 Mattamuskeet District, Hyde, NC 05 Aug 1850 Line 20, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Benjamin R. ROPER, age 33, Male, Farmer, RE $4,575, Born Hyde [NC] Line 21, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Susan ROPER, age 21, Female, Born Hyde [NC] Line 22, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Willliam F. ROPER, age 3, Male, Born Hyde [NC] Line 23, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Benjamin R. ROPER, age 9/12, Male, Born Hyde [NC] Line 24, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Christopher GASKINS, age 17, Male, Born Hyde [NC], Attended School Line 25, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Nancy ROPER, age 34, Female, Born Hyde [NC] Line 26, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Mary A. GIBBS, age 8, Female, Born Hyde [NC] Line 27, Dwelling 2, Family 2, Lucretia FARROWS, age 68, Female, Born Beaufort, NC [Image 14 of 56 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1850 Census data forthis jurisdiction.] * The other ROPER households in Hyde in 1850 were: United States Census -- 1850 Mattamuskeet District, Hyde, NC 10 Aug 1850 Line 24, Dwelling 5, Family 5, Alice ROPER, age 43, Female, Farmer, RE $380, Born NC Line 25, Dwelling 5, Family 5, John A. ROPER, age 21, Male, Labourer, Born NC Line 26, Dwelling 5, Family 5, Priscilla T.? ROPER, age 16, Female, Born NC Line 27, Dwelling 5, Family 5, Frederick T.??. ROPER, age 12, Male, Born NC Line 28, Dwelling 5, Family 5, Sarah A. ROPER, age 8, Female, Born NC [Image 30 of 56 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1850 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * United States Census -- 1850 Mattamuskeet District, Hyde, NC 05 Aug 1850 Line 18, Dwelling 3, Family 3, Frederick S ROPER, age 37, Male, Farmer, RE $5,160, Born Hyde [NC] Line 19, Dwelling 3, Family 3, Sarah A. ROPER, age 29, Female, Born Hyde [NC] Line 20, Dwelling 3, Family 3, Martha J. ROPER, age 3, Female, Born Hyde [NC] Line 20, Dwelling 3, Family 3, Nancy E. GIBBS, age 20, Female, Born Hyde [NC] [Image 13 of 56 at the Ancestry.com presentation of the 1850 Census data for this jurisdiction.] * * * It appears that Benjamin R. ROPER was the lone male age 20 to 29 living within the household of Sarah ROPER in 1840. Similarly, it appears that Alice is John W. ROPER's widow. * I believe that you can correctly infer that Benjamin R. ROPER, Jr. was born abt Nov 1849 based upon his 9/12 age at 05 Aug 1850.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: ROPER, WYATT, MEWIS, BROWN, MCDONALD Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/kgDBAEB/784.1.1 Message Board Post: Thanks for the reply. I have printed the email and will evaluate the information you provide. I have a a quite a bit of data on the Roper family, including birth, death, marriage certificates and census documents. My wife is the youngest daughter of Albert Lee Wyatt. Albert's adoptive mom was Pearl Agnes Roper, daughter of Theodore Roper and Rhoda Ann Kelly. I have a collection of Wyatt/Roper letters, personal possessions, and notes. It will take a while to copy everything I have but I could send a GEDCOM file with everything on the Roper side. I work for the state archives here in Wyoming and have several researches active on the Roper side still ongoing.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/kgDBAEB/784 Message Board Post: I am searching for information on a Theodore W. Roper. He married Rhoda Ann Kelley on 21 Aug 1873 in Meridian, Nebraska. He was born 26 Jun 1852 in St Louis, Missouri and died 29 Sep 1906 in Burlington, Colorado. If anyone has any leads on him, especially his parents, I surely would appreciate the info.

My great-grandfather was Harvey Monroe Roper. His wife, Pearl, kept a Bible Birthday Book for most of her life. There is a date of December 2, 1875 recorded for Mrs. J.R. Parr. Harvey was born 1875 and they were married in Marble Falls, Texas where his grandfather, William Harvey Roper moved to from Dawsonville, Lumpkin Co., Georgia. I will continue to search some of my other family documents for the Parr name as I do remember having seen it mentioned many times. I assumed they were friends, but may have been related. More as I find it. Gayle Gayle Clemons Newkirk We will not be remembered by our words, but by our kind deeds. Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath.