This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Billie JONES gave us a transcription of the Will of William ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, dated 07 Jun 1803, in several posts beginning in March 2002: "Will of WILLIAM ROPER Box 44- pkg1883, written June 7, 1803, proved the 25 Oct, 1803, recorded Book B, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804. In the name of God Amen, I William Roper of the District of Edgefield Being in health of Body mind and memory, thanks be given unto God. Calling unto mind the Mortality of my Body, and knowing that it is appointed for all men once to die do make and ordain this my Last Will and Testament.. First I give and bequeath unto my son Wiley Roper all that piece of Land known by the name of Horns Land and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of that Tract of Horns as will make an Equal Division of both Tracts between my son Wiley and my son Joel. I also give unto my son Joel one young mare. I give unto my wife Sary [Lany] Ropper (sic) my horse, Cattle, and hoggs, together with all the balance of my Estate which is not already bequeathed, not here after mentioned in this my (LWT). I give unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married or at the death of my wife, and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her Death the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my SIX childen. I constitute and appoint my son in law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper to be my whole & sole executors to this my LWT. In Witness thereof, I have here unto set my hand and seal this seventh day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eignt hundred and three William Roper Witnessed by William Glover Jr., Anderson Gloveer. Proven and appointed Joel Roper Executor the 30th Dec. 1803. THERE WAS NO SETTLEMENT SHOWN HERE." "ROPERS - More Probate records from Box 43-44, Edgefield Co. Probate Records." (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500) * * * This information appeared in another post by Billie JONES discussing the Edgefield ROPERs on April 13, 2002: "Will of William Roper Box 44-1883, written June 7, 1803, proved the 25 Oct, 1803, recorded Book B, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804. In the name of God Amen, I William Roper of the District of Edgefield Being in health of Body mind and memory, thanks be given unto God. Calling unto mind the Mortality of my Body, and knowing that it is appointed for all men once to die do make and ordain this my Last Will and Testament.. First I give and bequeath unto my son Wiley Roper all that piece of Land known by the name of Horns Land and at my wifes death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of that Tract of Horns as will make an Equal Division of both Tracts between my son Willed and my son Joel. I also give unto my son Joel one young mare. I give unto my wife Sary [Lany] Ropper my horse, Cattle, and hoggs, together with all the balance of my Estate which is not already bequeathed, not here after mentioned in this my LWT. I give unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married or at the death of my wife, and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her Death the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my SIX children. I constitute and appoint my son in law Benj'a Roper and my son Joel Roper to be my whole & sole executors to this my LWT. In Witness thereof, I have here unto set my hand and seal this seventh day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and three William Roper Witnessed by William Glover Jr., Anderson Glover. Proven and appointed Joel Roper Executor the 30th Dec. 1803. THERE WAS NO SETTLEMENT SHOWN HERE." "ROPER wills, Edgefield Co, SC transcribed by Billie Jones" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:37:51 -0400) * * * "Will of William Roper Box 44-1883, written June 7, 1803, proved the 25 Oct, 1803, recorded Book B, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804. William Glover, Jr. and Anderson Glover were witnesses (they are sons of Joab Glover and Sarah Gomah Glover) Will of William Roper - [WPA will transcfriptions of Edgefield Co, SC Vol 1 Bk. A (microfilm # ST 0541 (AD521), p. 536 SC State Archives First I give to my son Wiley Roper all that piece of land known by the name of Horns Land, and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of the tract of Horns as will make an equal division of both tracts between my son Wiley and son Joel. I also give to my son Joel a young mare. I leave unto my wife Lary [bsj-Sary] Roper my cattle and hogs, together with all the balance of my estate which is not already bequeathed, not hearafter mentioned in this my LWT. I leave unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married, or at the death of my wife - and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her death, the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my six children. I appoint my son-in-law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper Executors /s/ 7 June, 1803 Witness: William Glover Jr, Anderson Glover, /r/ in Will Book A, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804 [Box 44, pkg 1883] THERE WAS NO SETTLEMENT SHOWN HERE. Some of the folks sent me as children of William and Sarah Hard are *not listed in the will. Descendants of William Roper 1 William ROPER b: June 23, 1753 in probably Dinwiddie VA d: Bet. June 1803 - May 1804 in Edgefield Co, SC . Sarah HARD b: in VA [See Drury Adams below???] *.... 2 Samuel ROPER b: Abt. 1777 in VA ......... Rebecca LIMBECKER d: February 1820 in Edgefield Co, SC ..... 2 Wiley ROPER b: Abt. 1780 d: Abt. 1807 ......... PEGGY ..... 2 Joel ROPER b: Bet. 1780 - 1790 d: Bef. August 30, 1845 in Edgefield Co, SC ......... JULIAN b: Abt. 1800 d: November 10, 1851 ..... 2 Nancy ROPER b: Abt. 1784 ......... Jacob EARNEST, Jr. ..... 2 Sally ROPER b: Abt. 1786 *... 2 John ROPER b: Abt. 1788 *.... 2 Early ROPER b: Abt. 1790 Jo Ann, What is your source for *them as his children. I am trying to figure out who the son-in-law Benjamin Roper was. Possibly a term used for nephew or something, or did he marry a cousin?" "Ropers of Edgefield Dist, SC." (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:54:54 -0400) NOTE: Billie JONES is correct to be skeptical of speculative or whimsical ascriptions by other less careful ROPER family historians. There is some reasonable basis for an inference that Samuel ROPER might be William ROPER's son, but I am to date aware of no basis for ascription sons named John ROPER or Early ROPER. Apologies to anyone that I may have myself misled in decades past by misplaced reliance on Dave ROPER's ROPER Family History database. * * * On July 23, 2993, Mrs. JONES re-posted this transcription within a further post discussing several possibly related Wills: "Will of William Roper: (p. 536) First I give to my son Wiley Roper all that piece of land known by the name of Horns Land, and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of the tract of Horns as will make and equal division of both tracts between my son Wiley and son Joel. I also give to my son Joel a young mare. I leave unto my wife [Lary/Sary] Roper my cattle and hogs, together with all the balance of my estate which is not already bequeathed, not hereafter mentioned in this my LWT. I leave unto my daughter Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married, or at the death of my wife - and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her death, the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my six children. I appoint my son-in-law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper exec... /s/ 7 June, 1803 Witness: William Glover Jr, Anderson Glover, /r/ in Will Book A, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804 [Box 44, pkg 1883] I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN THIS FAMILY AND THE DAUGHTER NANCY - WHO DID SHE MARRY AFTER THE DEATH OF HER FATHER??" * * * "Will of William Roper Box 44-1883, written June 7, 1803, proved the 25 Oct, 1803, recorded Book B, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804. William Glover, Jr. and Anderson Glover were witnesses (they are sons of Joab Glover and Sarah Gomah Glover) Will of William Roper - [WPA will transcfriptions of Edgefield Co, SC Vol 1 Bk. A (microfilm # ST 0541 (AD521), p. 536 SC State Archives First I give to my son Wiley Roper all that piece of land known by the name of Horns Land, and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of the tract of Horns as will make an equal division of both tracts between my son Wiley and son Joel. I also give to my son Joel a young mare. I leave unto my wife Lary [bsj-Sary] Roper my cattle and hogs, together with all the balance of my estate which is not already bequeathed, not hearafter mentioned in this my LWT. I leave unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married, or at the death of my wife - and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her death, the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my six children. I appoint my son-in-law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper Executors /s/ 7 June, 1803 Witness: William Glover Jr, Anderson Glover, /r/ in Will Book A, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804 [Box 44, pkg 1883] A contact for this line is Jo Ann Ernest [See Archived post for e-mail address]. She did not send any verification with her info." "Re: witnesses Charles & wife Elizabeth and Joel Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 31 May 2004 17:48:16 -0400) * Lary/Sary is probably Sarah. Joab GLOVER should probably read Jacob GLOVER. * * * In a post dated September 30, 2004, Mrs. JONES gives us: "Will of William Roper Box 44-1883, written June 7, 1803, proved the 25 Oct, 1803, recorded Book B, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804. William Glover, Jr. and Anderson Glover were witnesses (they are sons of Joab Glover and Sarah Gomah Glover) Will of William Roper - [WPA will transcfriptions of Edgefield Co, SC Vol 1 Bk. A (microfilm # ST 0541 (AD521), p. 536 SC State Archives First I give to my son Wiley Roper all that piece of land known by the name of Horns Land, and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of the tract of Horns as will make an equal division of both tracts between my son Wiley and son Joel. I also give to my son Joel a young mare. I leave unto my wife Lary [bsj-Sary] Roper my cattle and hogs, together with all the balance of my estate which is not already bequeathed, not hearafter mentioned in this my LWT. I leave unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married, or at the death of my wife - and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her death, the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my six children. I appoint my son-in-law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper Executors /s/ 7 June, 1803 Witness: William Glover Jr, Anderson Glover, /r/ in Will Book A, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804 [Box 44, pkg 1883] I have not checked out the acutal box and package to see if additional info. is given in the distribution of property." "More info. for Probate Box 44 - William and Wiley Roper Probate" (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:06 -0400) * * * This Will is also mentioned within an Index of Other Wills transcribed by Billie JONES. Since Mrs. JONES is such a careful and thorough genealogist, those with interest in descendants of the Edgefield ROPERs or collateral lines may want to review some of her other posted transcriptions: "Wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:04:47 -0500) * * * It is interesting that this William ROPER is NOT enumerated in Edgefield in the 1800 Census. There are only TWO ROPERs enumerated in Edgefield, SC, that year: David ROPER: 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Edgefield 1800] Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield 1800] * * * This seems likely to be William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN. See my post: "William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC)" (8 Mar 2014 9:26PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In May 2004, Billie JONES included a transcription of the conveyance within her post: "March, 2003, I received a package of information from Mrs. Douglas Swanson, P.). Box 21033, Columbia, SC 29221 [see Archived post for e-mail address] that included information on this line. Altho William above does not name a son Samuel in his will, she included the following information from Edgefield Co. Conveyance Book 16, p. 162, to support the fact that Samuel was a son of William; William Roper Bill of Sale to Samuel Roper To all people to whom these presents shall come I William Roper of the State of South Carolina and County of Edgefield Do send know ye that I the said WilliamRoper of the State and Couty aforesaid for and in consideration of the love, good will and affection which I have and bear to my loving Son Samuel Roper of the State and County aforesaid have given and granted as by these presents do freely give and grant unto the said Samuel Roper, His heirs, executors or administrators all and singular the __ colored mare and side saddle, Cow __ Earlin, Sow and Piggs, Feather Bed and furniture, [blew] Chart Cupboard and Trunk, Chairs and Table, Wheel and lards, Earthen __, Pewter, pots, knives & forks, four of my __, of which by these presents I have delivered him the said Samuel Roper and (last line of copy cut off) with my own hand and bear_____ I put my hand and Seal this Twenty first day of Dec. , 1798. Signed Sealed and Delivered in the Presence of: William Wash William Roper {SEAL} Littleberry Adams South Carolina Edgefield Co} Personally appreaded before me, Richard Tutt one of the Justices of the peace for the Courty, Little Berry Adams and after being sworn ....... Jan 1797 /s/ Little Berry Adams. Perhaps Samuel was not named in the will of William because he had already received his portion of his inheritance from his father." "Re: witnesses Charles & wife Elizabeth and Joel Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 31 May 2004 17:48:16 -0400) There is other information and analysis in this post as well. * * * Billie reposted this transcription in her September 30, 2004, post containing other primary genealogical data for this ROPER family: "March, 2003, I received a package of information from Mrs. Douglas Swanson, P.). Box 21033, Columbia, SC 29221 [see Archived post for e-mail address] that included information on this line. Altho William above does not name a son Samuel in his will, she included the following information from Edgefield Co. Conveyance Book 16, p. 162, to support the fact that Samuel was a son of William; William Roper Bill of Sale to Samuel Roper To all people to whom these presents shall come aI William Roper of the State of South Carolina dn County of Edgefield Do send know ye that I the said WilliamRoper of the State and Couty aforesaid for and in consideration of the love, good will and affection which I have and bear to my loving Son Samuel Roper of the State and County aforesaid have given and granted as by these presents do freely give and grant unto the said Samuel Roper, His heirs, executors or administrators all and singular the __ colored mare and side saddle, Cow __ Earlin, Sow and Piggs, Feather Bed and furniture, [blew] Chart Cupboard and Trunk, Chairs and Table, Wheel and lards, Earthen __, Pewter, pots, knives & forks, four of my __, of which by these presents I have delivered him the said Samuel Roper and (last line of copy cut off) with my own hand and bear_____ I put my hand and Seal this Twenty first day of Dec. , 1798. Signed Sealed and Delivered in the Presence of: William Wash William Roper {SEAL} Littleberry Adams South Carolina Edgefield Co} Personally appreaded before me, Richard Tutt one of the Justices of the peace for the Courty, Little Berry Adams and after being sworn ....... Jan 1797 /s/ Little Berry Adams." "More info. for Probate Box 44 - William and Wiley Roper Probate" (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:06 -0400) * * There is much additional information about this Edgefield ROPER family within Billie JONES' post. Those with a keen interest in this Edgefield ROPER family are encouraged to read Mrs. JONES' posts by following the links. My goal is to extract the PRIMARY data presented by Ms. JONES in a series of topical posts about the Edgefield ROPERs, resurrecting the Archived data and making it more readily accessible within the ROPER Message Board. In so doing, I am also organizing the primary data differently in dedicated posts, with the intention of pulling together some further analysis of the primary data in forthcoming future posts about certain critical ROPER ancestors. * * * This conveyance seems likely to relate to the Samuel ROPER enumerated within the Edgefield Census enumerations for 1800 and 1810: Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] Samuel ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] * * * This also seems likely to be the Samuel ROPER who is shown within the Jack RYAN Book to have died on 02 Mar 1820. Also, this seems likely to be the Samuel ROPER whose wife is shown to have died on 01 Sep 1814. See my related post within this thread: "Edgefield ROPER Mentions in the Jack RYAN Book" (9 Mar 2014 8:35PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.1/mb.ashx * * * I view this conveyance as reflecting that Samuel ROPER's father William ROPER is setting his son up in an independent household. I believe that this Samuel ROPER is probably the son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) and grandson of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN. See my post: "William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC)" (08 Mar 2014 9:26PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Before further discussing the various ROPER primary materials researched and transcribed by Billie JONES, I want to quickly summarize some important ROPER data found within the pages of the "Jack RYAN Book". This information was posted to the Edgefield Message Board across four posts by Census20: "John Ryan's Book-Long but worth the Many Different Names & Dates Part 1" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:01:14 EST) "John Ryan Book Part 2" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:01:25 EST) "John Ryan Book Part 3" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:27:25 EST) [No ROPER mentions but significant to Edgefield genealogy] "John Ryan Book Part 4 the end" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:04:00 EST) * * * Within the first of these four posts, Census20 gives us this explanatory information about the source of the information, which I have repeated in its entirety for convenience: "From the NGS Book 51 No 2 pgs 114-118 John Ryan's Book by Charles Dyson Rodenbough John Ryan's Book contains the combined accounts of the operation of his plantations; his personal and family dealings; and the record of marriages, births and deaths of his family, friends, neighbors and his slaves. It covers an active period from 1802 until John Ryan's death in 1827, although their are dates recorded from recollections prior to 1802. Since John Ryan was a man of considerable note in the Ninety-six District of South Carolina his record covering the period mentions many of the familiesin this area of South Carolina. John Ryan was the son of Benjamin and Mary Ryan. His parents came to South Carolina from Virginia (probably Augusta County). John Ryan is believed to have been born near Edgefield, SC. He fought in the Indian Wars against the Cherokees and in the Revolution as a Captain of the First South Carolina Militia, Col LeRoy Hammond's Regiment. He is treated at length in Johnson's "Traditions and Reminisences of the Revolution," but he is erroneously referred to there as James Ryan. John Ryan had two brothers-Benjamin and Lacon. Altough all three brothers married, only Lacon Ryan left issued-a son Benjaman and a daughter Sarah. The John Ryan Book is now the property of Mrs Juliette Loving Green, a ggggranddaugher of Lacon Ryan. It was given to Mrs Green by Rev Herbert Boyce Satcher, who himself is a gggrandson of Lacon Ryan. Over a period of years the book has sustained a great deal of physical damage. Some pages have been lost, others have been partially torn off. There has been damage from bugs, which have eaten away portions of pages, and from water. Finally, during a period corresponding roughly with the Civil War the book was used by the family for a scrapebook, for pasting numerous newspaper clippings to the pages. This treatment necessitated a great deal of tedious work for many hours in order to make out a transcript of the contents. Dr. Satcher did most of this tedious work and the complier has finished the work he started. The following is a list of all references to births, deaths and marriages (except slaves) as they are found in John Ryan's Book. All entries that might indicate any useful information were included even ifthey are unclear or incomplete due to damage to the book. Those words or letters that are not definitely clear are italicized, as are portions of words which had to be assumend. Words or dates that cannot be assumed with reasonable certainty are omitted as indicated by dashes. Spelling has been correscted on all words except names." * ROPERs are mentioned within only three of the four posts, but those with a keen interest in the Edgefield ROPER family probably should carefully scrutinize all four of Census20's posts and should try to get a look at the underlying primary documents referenced. The first ROPER mention (in posting rather than chronological order) is: 1814 Sepr. 1 Sam Roper wife died. See: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/scedgefi/2003-12/1070816474 This seems likely to be the wife of the Samuel ROPER enumerated in the 1800 and 1810 Census residing in Edgefield: * In the second of the posts, we are given a further extract from the Jack RYAN book to include: 1785 March 22 Danel Roper was born. See: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/scedgefi/2003-12/1070816485 * There are no ROPER mentions in the third of Census20's posts concerning the Jack RYAN Book. * In the fourth of these posts, we are given several important pieces of ROPER genealogical information: 1819 July 17 Danel Roper died. 1820 March 2 Samuel Roper died. 1820 August 24 John Roper died. See: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/scedgefi/2003-12/1070831040 Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859/mb.ashx Message Board Post: A little more than a decade ago, Billie JONES posted quite a bit of exceptionally valuable Will and other probate information pertaining to Edgefield, South Carolina, ROPERs at the RootsWeb Message Board for Edgefield, South Carolina. She has also posted primary information and very sound and thoughtful analysis about this branch of the family. Frankly, I was not closely monitoring that board at the time and I didn't see these helpful posts until much later. Billie JONES and other Edgefield researchers have continued to post very useful information on the Edgefield ROPER families at the Edgefield Message Board in the years since. As part of a routine archiving of older messages, many of the helpful messages showing primary records were placed in the Archive for the Edgefield, SC, Message Board/List, while being REMOVED from the primary Edgefield Message Board. This has the consequence that while the helpful probate posts can still be found by searching the SCEDGEFI Archive List or even with a general Google Search, these helpful Messages can no longer be found within general search of the RootsWeb Message Board. And since the messages were never originally posted at the ROPER Message Board, these would NOT have been found AT ALL if one did a Message Board search limited to ROPER Message Board postings. While those experienced genealogists who carefully searched the USGenWeb or RootsWeb Archives may have found many or most of these posts, given the exceptional wealth of information, I thought it would be helpful to bring these together in a single thread at the ROPER Message Board. This post is intended as a finding aid to those older posts. I am also going to RE-POST each of the primary transcription posts under a single post which better identifies the ROPER ancestor to whom the primary data pertains. My goal is to increase the visibility of this exceptionally useful information and to organize some links and discussion, particularly pertaining to the cloudy earliest relationships of the Edgefield ROPER family. Where applicable, I will also endeavor to add some elaborating analysis or links to related posted information. Here are the Archived Posts (SCEDGEFI-L): "ROPERS - More Probate records from Box 43-44, Edgefield Co. Probate Records." (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500) "Wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:04:47 -0500) "Coursey/Collins in SC" (Lee and Billie Jones, 26 Mar 2002 13:27:06 -0500) "Deeds" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:18:08 -0500) "HOLLOWAY and various families that went to SC" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:46:34 -0500) "ROPER wills, Edgefield Co, SC transcribed by Billie Jones" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:37:51 -0400) "Re: [GAFORSYT] Need Help to Determine a Date" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 8 Jun 2002 16:49:10 -0400) "Re: Burnett and Dean" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:24:23 -0400) "Ropers of Edgefield Dist, SC." (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:54:54 -0400) "Estate of David Roper, 1802" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:16:04 -0400) "Will of Drury Adams, 1815/ dauaughter wife of Hezekiah Byrd??" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:42:40 -0400) "Lewis Glanton & Mary Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:53:40 -0400) "Re: George Getzen" (Dr Constance T McNeill, Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:55:05 -0500) ""R" - 1800 Edgefield County, SC Census" (DonnaEldrid, Sun, 1 Dec 2002 11:21:32 EST) "Re: John Adams-1808 Family" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 5 May 2003 20:45:10 -0400) "Wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:25:22 -0400) "John Ryan's Book-Long but worth the Many Different Names & Dates Part 1" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:01:14 EST) "John Ryan Book Part 2" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:01:25 EST) "John Ryan Book Part 4 the end" (Census20, Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:04:00 EST) "Re: Wills Record Bk 1800-Samuel Doolittle Sr " (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:49:03 -0400) "Wills Record Bk 1800-Thomas Burnett" (Census20, Sun, 11 Apr 2004 08:32:48 EDT) "wILLS rECORD bK 1800-Charles Roper" (Census20, Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:32:28 EDT ) "Re: wILLS rECORD bK 1800-Charles Roper" (Sat, 1 May 2004 17:51:11 -0400 ) "Re: Calhoun Journal-James Adams" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 22 May 2004 22:27:47 -0400) "Re: witnesses Charles & wife Elizabeth and Joel Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 31 May 2004 17:48:16 -0400) "More info. for Probate Box 44 - William and Wiley Roper Probate" (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:06 -0400) "Benjamin Roper" (Gerald Boyd, Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:58:12 -0500) "Re: Compare this MATHIS/MATHEWS fam. to new records" (Audrey Pool, Sun, 3 Oct 2004 17:14:21 -0700) "ROPER wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:53:26 -0400) "Edgefield-Marriage-Death Notices 1827-1845" (Census20, Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:58:16 EST ) "Re: Edgefield-Marriage-Death Notices 1827-1845" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:13:47 -0500) "MISC DEATH CERT: Old Edgefield Dist, SC" (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:20:47 -0500) "More Old Edgefield Dist Death Certificates." (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:21:22 -0500) "Re: [SCEDGEFI] Death Cert. 1915 - 1952 from Old Edgefield Distcounties" (Don Geary, Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:21:50 -0500) "[SCEDGEFI] HOLMES, BURRIS, and COLLINS" (Kathy Wilcox, Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:01:57 -0600) "[SCEDGEFI] Sc-Edgefield-Mccormick Co. Church (Horn's Creek Bap)" (Carolyn Golowka, Sun, 1 Jul 2007 15:20:54 -0400) "Re: [SCEDGEFI] ROPER-HOLLOWAY-WILLIAMS, etc of Southside VA" (Audrey Pool, Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:26:33 -0800) "[SCEDGEFI] Holloway/Read/Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 24 May 2008 15:42:29 -0400) "[SCEDGEFI] DNA - Wiley Coursey b. 1810 - 1820 md. Nancy" (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:55:02 -0400) * * These posts can be found by searching the Edgefield Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/search?aop&path=SCEDGEFI You can also browse the Edgefield Archives from this page: http://news.rootsweb.com/th/index/SCEDGEFI I will endeavor to link individual Archive pages as I re-post the primary data and discuss its implications. * * * I want to emphasize that I did NOT copy EVERY post from the Edgefield Archives. I omitted some posts regarding more recent ROPER family connections. I omitted simple Queries where there was no primary information presented and I omitted some information that appeared to me to be redundant. Researchers with a keen interest in Edgefield ROPER families are encouraged to do their own searches of the Edgefield Archives. Many thanks to Billie JONES and other Edgefield researchers for their excellent genealogical research! 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, The David Roper, of Washington County, IL, shown in the 1820 Census as age 45 plus is consistent with the one of the two David Ropers in Pulaski County, KY in the 1810 Census, who are both shown as 45 plus. To my knowledge, there were no David Ropers in the 1800 , 1810, or 1820 Pendleton County, SC Census records. And the only David Roper who appears in the 1830 Pickens County, SC Census record is the David Roper from Burke County, NC, who remarried Rachel Bicknell Sparks on January 23,1816 in Burke County, NC. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The third son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN was William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC). This William ROPER's date of birth is shown in the MOORE Family Bible together with the other children in Charles ROPER's and Ann GOODWYN's family. He is believed to be born in Dinwiddie, VA, where Charles and Ann ROPER settled. * There abstracted land transactions in Brunswick County are generally believed to pertain to William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC): William Roper of Bath Parish in Dinwiddie Co. from Jesse Cristie & wife deed 1773 11-71 William Roper & wife Sarah to Richard Smith deed 50 acres 1777 12-214 William Roper from William Burgess & wife deed 150 acres 1777 12-215 William Roper & wife Sarah to David Roper deed 61 acres 1778 13-98 William Roper to Joel Roper of Dinwiddie Co. deed 100 acres 1792 Wit: Benjamin Roper, William Roper from James Quarles deed 1793 Wit: David Roper 15-439 William Roper to Charles Roper's Exors D.T. Joel Roper of Dinwiddie Co. deed 100 acres 1793 15-441 As far as I am able to tell, no one has ever bothered to obtain full transcripts of these extant deeds to obtain additional insight into the Brunswick ROPER families. The references to Joel ROPER, of Dinwiddie seem likely to be references to William ROPER's brother Joel, rather than his son of the same name. * Someone with a keen interest in this ROPER family may want to inspect the ANNUAL Personal Property Tax records for Brunswick County, VA, to identify the first appearance of William ROPER there, as well as the year that William ROPER is shown to have departed Virginia. Such an examination of the Brunswick Personal Property Tax records may also yield additional insight into William ROPER's sons as they reached majority and are first shown within the tax records. * A Bill of Sale dated 21 Dec 1798 between William ROPER and Samuel ROPER conveys property to this Samuel which seems to set Samuel ROPER up to have his own household. This conveyance is shown to appear within Edgefield Co. Conveyance Book 16, p. 162. This secondary transcription is taken from the page indicated below: William Roper Bill of Sale to Samuel Roper To all people to whom these presents shall come aI William Roper of the State of South Carolina dn County of Edgefield Do send know ye that I the said William Roper of the State and Couty aforesaid for and in consideration of the love, good will and affection which I have and bear to my loving Son Samuel Roper of the State and County aforesaid have given and granted as by these presents do freely give and grant unto the said Samuel Roper, His heirs, executors or administrators all and singular the __ colored mare and side saddle, Cow __ Earlin, Sow and Piggs, Feather Bed and furniture, [blew] Chart Cupboard and Trunk, Chairs and Table, Wheel and lards, Earthen __, Pewter, pots, knives & forks, four of my __, of which by these presents I have delivered him the said Samuel Roper and (last line of copy cut off) with my own hand and bear_____ I put my hand and Seal this Twenty first day of Dec. , 1798. Signed Sealed and Delivered in the Presence of: William Wash William Roper {SEAL} Littleberry Adams See: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCEDGEFI/2004-09/1096599186 * William ROPER made a Will on 07 Jun 1803, which was witnessed by William GLOVER, Jr., and Anderson GLOVER. This Will is recorded in Will Book "A" (at Pages 190-191) for Edgefield County, SC, on 21 May 1804. This secondary transcription of William ROPER's Will appears at the page shown: Will of William Roper - [WPA will transcfriptions of Edgefield Co, SC Vol 1 Bk. A (microfilm # ST 0541 (AD521), p. 536 SC State Archives First I give to my son Wiley Roper all that piece of land known by the name of Horns Land, and at my wife's death as much of the tract where I now live to be taken along side of the tract of Horns as will make an equal division of both tracts between my son Wiley and son Joel. I also give to my son Joel a young mare. I leave unto my wife Lary [bsj-Sary] Roper my cattle and hogs, together with all the balance of my estate which is not already bequeathed, not hearafter mentioned in this my LWT. I leave unto my daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed and furniture a piece when they are married, or at the death of my wife - and it is my desire that all that part of my personal property which I have pointed out to my wife, that at her death, the whole shall be sold and equally divided among my six children. I appoint my son-in-law Benj. Roper and my son Joel Roper Executors /s/ 7 June, 1803 Witness: William Glover Jr, Anderson Glover, /r/ in Will Book A, p. 190-191 May 21, 1804 [Box 44, pkg 1883] See: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCEDGEFI/2004-09/1096599186 The Will names son-in-law Benjamin ROPER and son Joel ROPER as executors. It seems likely that the Benjamin ROPER mentioned is Benjamin ROPER, son of David ROPER, who also settled in Edgefield, SC. The Will makes bequests to sons Wiley ROPER and Joel ROPER, leaves daughters Nancy and Sally one feather bed or furniture piece "when they are married" and expressly states that William ROPER has SIX (6) children. Wife Sary (Sarah) is also mentioned by name. Only FOUR of the indicated SIX children are mentioned by name in the Will. Perhaps others are identified within the related probate documents for William ROPER amongst the archived Edgefield records. Clearly, one of these is a daughter married to Benjamin ROPER. Secondary sources show this daughter to be an Emily ROPER and there is support for this ascription within the Will of Benjamin ROPER (d Nov 1841 - Edgefield). However, there was another Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC) whose wife may have been William ROPER's daughter. A full transcription of the William ROPER Will from another source is also posted at Dave ROPER's web site at: http://www.roperld.com/EdgefieldSCWills1806-1818.pdf William ROPER's (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) children seem to have been: Samuel ROPER Wiley ROPER Joel ROPER --- ROPER m Benjamin ROPER Nancy ROPER Sally ROPER I am NOT persuaded that the ascription of Emily ROPER as the wife of William ROPER's son-in-law is correct. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Might I suggest that you edit the presentation to at least include a separator (e.g. "--") between the male and female counts? Also, am I correct in inferring that the indication of "12" in the first entry is instead intended to be "1 2". I am reading the data to show that the ages of these David ROPERs are: David ROPER, of Marion, is age 20 to 29 (b 1801-20). David ROPER, of Burke, is age 30 to 39 (b 1791-1800). David ROPER, of Mecklenburg, is age 20 to 29 (b 1801-20). David ROPER, of Montgomery, is age 30 to 39 (b 1791-1800). * This seems to still leave David ROPER (b 1761-70), of Pickens, South Carolina, as the single best candidate (and ONLY candidate with consistent Census data) to be the David ROPER, of Washington County, IL, found in the 1820 Census enumeration. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I have verified the 1830 census data from the images on Ancestry.com on the following David Ropers: David ROPER, of Marion, Illinois David ROPER, of Burke, North Carolina David ROPER, of Mecklenburg, North Carolina David ROPER, of Montgomery, North Carolina Individually, the census data is as follows David Roper 12 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1830 Marion, IL. (no slave data) David Roper 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1830 Burke, NC (no slaves) David Roper 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1830 Mecklenburg, NC (1 slave) David Roper 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1830 Montgomery, NC (no slaves) Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/498.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I discussed early ROPER widows shown in the in South Carolina Census in 1810 in this thread in 2002: "Sorting Out SC ROPER Widows Shown in the Census - 1810" (24 Jul 2002 11:39PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516/mb.ashx I recently added some additional analysis incorporating some of the probate information. Those with an interest in the Edgefield, SC, ROPER family may find this thread to be of interest. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I recently stumbled back across an old message thread discussing later Census data for the ROPER families in Edgefield. That thread is: "ROPERs in South Carolina in 1850 - Edgefield" (4 Jul 2002 7:41PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/498/mb.ashx I also posted quite a bit of Census data for the Edgefield ROPERs summarized within this post: "Delaughters in Various SC Census Since 1790" (5 Jul 2002 4:54PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/498.3.1/mb.ashx Since this thread discusses earlier Census data for the Edgefield, SC, ROPERs, I thought it might be helpful to add crosslinks to the other message thread, especially for those without access to the primary Census records. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: A death notice in the Edgefield Advertiser on October 29, 1845, further clarifies the age and implicit year of birth of Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC): "Departed this life, Benjamin Roper, Senior, on October 23, 1845, at his residence in Edgefield District, in the 78th year of his age. He has left a son (who lived with him many years) and one grandson." Edgefield Death Notices and Cemetery Records, compiled by Carlee T. McClendon (Columbia, SC: The Hive Press, 1977), p. 55. Benjamin ROPER's calculated year of birth is consistent with the age ranges shown in the 1800 and 1810 Census for Edgefield, which, taken together imply that Benjamin ROPER seems to be have been born about 1766-74. There is some additional clarifying information regarding the various Edgefield ROPER families in this old post: "Sorting Out the ROPERs in Edgefield County SC in the Mid 1800s" (23 Jul 2002 9:35AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/512/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank Batchelor was posted some abstracted probate information for David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - Edgefield, SC) and William ROPER (d bef Aug 1810 - Edgefield, SC) in other threads: "William Roper, son of David Roper, Edgefield, SC" (6 Jan 2013 7:47AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1756/mb.ashx "Re: David ROPER of Pickens, SC" (24 Feb 2014 10:25AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.2/mb.ashx In my previous analysis of the Edgefield widows more than a decade ago, I relied in part upon secondary sources as to the identity of David ROPER's children, which I have sorely since learned is usually a MISTAKE. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - Edgefield, SC) had other children NOT mentioned within his Will, it seems most sound to ascribe only those actually identified therein absent some strong primary evidence supporting the ascription of a child omitted from the Will. While it is really ESSENTIAL to get a look at the PRIMARY records rather then merely an abstract, it still seems to me that the abstract cited by Frank can be used to clear away some of the detritus, false ascription and fraud associated with this South Carolina ROPER family. The abstracts says NOTHING of relationships, so UNLESS someone can get a look at the primary records and bring forward some evidence which firmly shows relationships, ANY ascription necessarily involves some speculation. Even so, it seems to me that some reasonable inferences can be made as to the nature of the relationships, with some ascriptions inherently more speculative than others. First, we are informed that Benjamin ROPER is the administrator of David ROPER's estate. In my view, this supports a weak inference that Benjamin ROPER was the eldest son and a somewhat stronger inference that he was at least older than some of the other sons and lived proximate to David ROPER. A Benjamin ROPER is enumerated in Pendleton, SC, in 1800. This Benjamin ROPER is again shown in Pendleton, SC, in 1810, while another Benjamin appears in Edgefield, SC, that year (see post above). Benjamin ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Pendleton 1800] Benjamin ROPER: 4 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Pendleton 1810] Benjamin ROPER: 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] Benjamin ROPER, of Pendleton seems to have been age 26 to 44 in 1800 (b abt 1756-74) and is shown in the same age range ten years later (b abt 1766-84). Taken together, this Benjamin ROPER seems to be (b abt 1766-74) based upon the 1800 and 1810 Census data. Benjamin ROPER, of Edgefield is shown to be age 26 to 44 in 1810 (b abt 1766-74). If this David ROPER is David ROPER, son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, it seems likely that Benjamin ROPER reached majority while this couple still lived in Brunswick County, VA, and may be shown in the Personal Property Tax data there. * Legatees are shown within the abstract to be: John Roper $220 David Roper $110 Samuel Roper $110 William Roper $111 Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) * In my view, this information supports a reasonably strong inference that each of those named was a child of David ROPER, EXCEPT for Sarah ROPER. As to Sarah, I believe that the data is ambiguous. She MIGHT be an unmarried daughter. But she also MIGHT BE a widowed daughter-in-law. Some secondary sources have identified "Sarah" as the name of David ROPER's widow. Based solely upon the abstracted data given by Frank Batchelor, I do NOT believe that the data supports such an ascription. Usually, a widow was entitled to a certain dower and sometimes an allowance of some sort. But it seems to me UNLIKELY that she would receive the SAME share as her children. Given that this David ROPER is shown to have been age 45 at the 1800 Census enumeration (b bef 1756) with a widow of the same age, I am MORE inclined to believe that Sarah is a widow than that she is a daughter, given the equal share she seems to have received. I also think that the ORDER in which the legacies are listed supports a WEAK inference that this was the birth order of the children, EXCEPT FOR Benjamin. He is listed LAST, but NOT I think because of birth order. I believe that he swore to having paid all the other legacies and then Paid himself at the conclusion of the probate. An examination of the primary records might provide some additional insight. Going with the information currently readily available in the abstract, I would therefore first suggest the admittedly somewhat speculative ascription that David ROPER's children were: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-74) John ROPER David ROPER Samuel ROPER William ROPER --- ROPER m Sarah I also believe that Sarah's appearance LAST does NOT necessarily impart any information about birth order if she is a daughter-in-law, but her appearance LAST might imply that she is the youngest if she is a daughter. David ROPER: 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] David ROPER's 1800 Census record shows that there was one male child age 10 to 15, one male child age 16 to 25, another male child age 26 to 44, a female age 16 to 25, as well as a male and female age 45 or more. The Census data somewhat alters the analysis of the probate data in two ways. First, usually a child wouldn't directly receive a legacy until the child reached majority. Thus, the appearance of a male child age 10 to 15 introduces a certain dissonance to the assumption that ALL of the children are identified in the list of legacies. This may be resolvable, as further explained below. Secondly, the joint appearance of a male child in this age range together with the appearance of a female in the 16 to 25 age range slightly alters my perception about the relative probabilities of Sarah being a daughter as opposed to being a daughter-in-law. In fact, the ABSENCE of younger children in the household seems to me to significantly REDUCE the probability that Sarah is a daughter-in-law. While a young widow with children might be taken in by the in-laws, a young widow without children would seem far more likely to quickly remarry. The presence of a younger male in the 10 to 15 age range together with a female age 16 to 25 seems more suggestive to me that Sarah is actually a daughter and that the sequence given as to the legacies reflects birth order of the males, followed by the females. This still doesn't explain how a younger male would have received a legacy before reaching his majority. The clue to that question seems to me to be implicit in the amounts of the legacies. The very first legacy shown is to John ROPER and is shown to be $220. John ROPER is getting a DOUBLE SHARE. When I first saw this, I had speculated that perhaps there was another son who had died and that John ROPER had remarried his widow. But I think that the simpler explanation consistent with the Census data is that there is yet another UNINDENTIFIED son of David ROPER, age 10 to 15, for whom John ROPER is acting as informal guardian. Because he is nearer the upper end of the age range, instead of establishing a more formal guardianship, Benjamin ROPER has paid the youngest brother's share to brother John ROPER, who is likely to be caring for the unnamed brother. Thus, I would propose the following conjectural ascriptions based upon best available current data, while encouraging those with a keen interest in this family to find and examine the underlying primary probate records: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-74) John ROPER David ROPER Samuel ROPER William ROPER Sarah ROPER (b 1775-84) --- ROPER (b abt 1885-90) (youngest minor son, age 10 to 15) There might be some small clue within the probate record that might solve a number of mysteries. * THREE of David ROPER's SIX sons were then living with him in 1800, and THREE had LEFT THE HOUSEHOLD. * * * The probate information for William ROPER gives us much additional specific information! William ROPER is shown to have made a nuncupative Will, probably on his death bed on 21 Jul 1810. Benjamin ROPER, Samuel ROPER & Jacob EARNEST are identified as the witnesses and the former two are shown to be "friends". It is UNCLEAR whether this is to be taken as an indication that this was a William ROPER OTHER THAN the William ROPER who was brother to the Benjamin and Samuel ROPER named in David ROPER's Will. I am generally disinclined to place that much emphasis on the wording as a basis to REJECT a possible sibling relationship. Margarite ROPER is rather clearly identified as William ROPER's wife. The mention of ONE child with whom Margarite ROPER is pregnant at 21 Jul 1810 seems to limit William ROPER to a single child. This is somewhat inconsistent, though, with Margarett /Margarite ROPER's 1810 Census record, which shows: Margarett ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, 1810] It may be that Margarite ROPER was a widow with small children when she married William ROPER. Additional study of the Edgefield records may yield additional insight. * In 1800, Samuel ROPER is the ONLY ROPER other than David enumerated in Edgefield. Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] Samuel is shown to be age 16 to 25 (b abt 1775-84) in the 1800 Census enumeration. There is a female of the same age range within his household. In 1810, Samuel ROPER is still residing within Edgefield and is shown to be age 26 to 44: Samuel ROPER: 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] This implies a year of birth of 1766 to 1784, widening rather than narrowing the possible age range. * There are also two additional ROPER households in Edgefield in 1810: John ROPER: 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] Daniel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1810] John ROPER, appearing for the first time is shown to be age 26 to 44 (b abt 1766-84). Daniel ROPER is shown to be age 16 to 25 (b abt 1785-94). Daniel ROPER's age range is consistent with the unidentified missing son from David ROPER's 1800 Census enumeration. Based upon proximity and the consistency of the age to the missing child, I think that it is reasonable to ascribe Daniel ROPER as David ROPER's missing youngest son. But the basis for the ascription and its speculative nature should also be explained. Further study may yield some additional evidence in support of this ascription. * * * Overall, in my view, the Census data, taken together with the probate data seems to support these children of David ROPER: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-74) John ROPER (b abt 1766-84) David ROPER Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84) William ROPER (d abt 21 Jul 1810) Sarah ROPER (b 1775-84) Daniel ROPER (b abt 1885-90) (youngest minor son, age 10 to 15) * A quick note as to David ROPER's wife is in order. Based solely on the lack of mention of ANY wife within the abstract and the absence of any readily identifiable widow in the Census records, I would be inclined to speculate that David ROPER's wife predeceased him. However, this seems to me to be a particularly tenuous ascription absent a very careful inspection of the primary records! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Were you able to examine the underlying primary records for the probate information you cite for David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - Edgefield, SC) or are you relaying upon someone else's abstract? It strikes me that there is often a great deal of nuanced information which appears in inventories which is of exceptional value to the careful and thorough genealogist which is necessarily OMITTED by a person abstracting Wills to prepare a published compilation. Also, what did you discover as to the presence of slave ownership when examining the primary Personal Property Tax records for Virginia and North Carolina. I am much less familiar with personal property tax records North Carolina, but sometimes the annual Personal Property Tax records for Virginia counties identifies not only a count of slaves, but also gives their NAMES. This is another reason that it is essential to examine the PRIMARY records rather than the abstracts. * How many slaves are shown to be owned by David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC) in the 1820 and 1830 Pulaski Census? In 1810, one of the David ROPERs in Pulaski owned TWO slaves. The abstract given above shows that a David ROPER, seemingly son of the David ROPER shown to have died in Edgefield, SC, in 1892, purchased a slave named "Tom" in 1802. I believe that there were David ROPERs enumerated within the 1810 U.S. Census in the following places: Burksville, Cumberland, Kentucky Somerset, Pulaski, Kentucky (2) Morganton, Burke, North Carolina One of the David ROPERs in Pulaski County, KY, is shown to own two slaves. What are the slave counts in the other two David ROPER households? Although I had encouraged you in a prior post to carefully inspect EVERY David ROPER Census record from 1820, I believe that there remain several records that haven't been checked yet. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I have NOT yet seen a single piece of data that suggests that this David ROPER REMAINED in Washington County. To the contrary, it seems to me that the data is MORE consistent with the possibility that he made a cameo appearance and then might have simply moved on. Note that the Census record is NOT consistent with the presence of a wife of David ROPER's age. * One possibility that I think we ought NOT discount is the possibility that David ROPER might have come forward to the frontier with one son, even without bringing his wife, and then RETURNED to Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina or even South Carolina to "retire". Given the distances and transportation challenges, this might seem daunting. But the tug of family affinity is strong. IF, for example, a son was moving to the Illinois frontier together with an uncle or grandfather, the LURE of accompanying that son in hopes of seeing one's father or brother again, possibly for the last time in one's lifetime, might be particularly strong. Similarly, David ROPER's wife might have had similar motivations to travel elsewhere to visit with her parents or siblings. Rather than bringing an older wife to the frontier, perhaps a return to Virginia or North Carolina or to South Carolina where other siblings or children have migrated, might have been an attractive alternative. Admittedly, the Census data isn't sufficiently informative in the 1820s to afford ANY support for such speculation. Nor am I encouraging you or any researcher to adopt such speculation. Rather, I am simply cautioning against the ASSUMPTION that David ROPER's wife was then already dead, absent some other evidence. While I think that the Census record for David ROPER (b bef 1776), of Crooked Creek, Washington County, Illinois, is consistent with the Pulaski record and the deed records showing a possible departure from Pulaski, I would also caution against a conclusion that this is the SAME David ROPER, absent further evidence. But I think that the case that Thomas ROPER moved from Pulaski, KY, to Hickman, TN, to Clinton, IL, is much stronger. The adjacency of Thomas ROPER to David ROPER in Pulaski and the naming patterns in Clinton County seems to me to support such a conclusion. * Overall, I think it is important to examine the OBVIOUS data first and reach conclusions based on the data rather than beginning with a speculative hypothesis and then only looking for the data that supports the hypothesis. Rather than focusing on the theory, focus on the data. When someone appears in a Census and is shown to be selling land just before a Census enumeration and then disappears from the prior place, one LOOKS FOR THE PERSON in the next Census data. Rather than ASSUMING that David ROPER died in Clinton County, IL, since there is as of yet no evidence that this is the case, we ought to instead ASSUME that he lived and look for him in the 1830 Census! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Yes, I see that you posted the above information almost exactly a year ago in this post: "James Roper, Thomas Roper and Philip L. Roper" (8 Mar 2013 1:05PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1787/mb.ashx * Our ongoing research, conversation and speculation about the origins of Philip Lawson ROPER and Charles Jackson ROPER has continued now across several different threads over a considerable period of time. My memory of particular threads, posts and conversations become more cloudy as time passes and admittedly in any such investigation we necessarily end up going back over old evidence and arguments. This can also be an advantage rather than a disadvantage since it presents an opportunity both to review and to take a fresh look at previous assumptions, evidence and analysis in respect of newly discovered and/or appreciated information emerging since. Some of the Subjects of the posts shown are more specific and meaningful than others. Sometimes, important information appearing in older posts can be hard to find. For this reason, I have often found it helpful to do several things. First, I would encourage you, when possible to take greater care in composing subjects for posts to include some specific information as to TIME and PLACE. This makes distinguishing generations amongst an otherwise undifferentiated group of ancestors with similar intergenerational naming patterns a little easier. YOU are no doubt the person with the single best grasp of the data that pertains to Charles Jackson ROPER and Philip Lawson ROPER since these are a central focus of your research. For me, they are interesting collateral ancestors for whom resolution is most interesting (a) as a help to you and (b) to help resolve other early ROPER relationships in Kentucky, Tennessee, Illinois, Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina. Similarly, when posting various replies to posts within a particular message thread, it is also helpful to take an additional moment to consider whether the Reply merits a new Subject that better identifies the contents of the particular post. By the time that a message is subject to several replies and cross-replies, it becomes increasingly difficult to find a particular message amidst the clutter. Better subject naming helps. Another means of assisting both yourself, but especially others is to occasionally crosslink the prior threads to make it easier to unify the information in a current thread or conversation with that information previously appearing. Of course, in this case I had turned the conversation back to Thomas ROPER and had forgotten the prior discussion and posts, failed to do a proper search for prior discussion and failed to crosslink that earlier discussion. For some time I have intended to post some topical discussions about ALL Early Tennessee and Kentucky ROPER families, such as my thread: "Early Tennessee ROPER Families" (1 Mar 2014 3:12AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1856/mb.ashx In particular, I believe that posting an annotated summary of comprehensive ROPER Census appearances and counts for various years can be helpful. Admittedly, summaries of some of the Census counts have been available on L. David ROPER's pages for a number of years. But Dave's presentation of the Census data is of uneven completeness and accuracy and the presentation is also lacking in analysis of the primary data. This linking and analysis might have been accomplished by a thorough and careful creation of a comprehensive family history database, but the methodology Dave used making speculative and even whimsical ascriptions and for merging and integration of data from others has rendered the his ROPER Family History database essentially useless. The data integrity problems are such that I have discontinued using Dave's database altogether. (One problem with using GEDCOM or PAF files is that hurried connections and ascriptions without bothering to document the basis for the ascription or connection and without linking the underlying source material can both create misleading genealogies, while focusing attention on the speculation rather than the underlying data. Some other tools to organize the data can put a more appropriate focus on FACTS rather than ascribed relationships of uneven quality.) By presenting a longitudinal compilation of the Census data together with a discussion of how the Census data might fit with out Census information or with other known primary data, I think we can begin to get a clearer picture of how various ancestors are related and migrated unfettered by all of the misinformation and fraudulent lineages floating around. Another helpful means of integrating prior analysis is the posting of summaries which bring together the analysis previously appearing in other threads, which is what I was endeavoring to do in posting the unifying information on Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC), of Clinton, IL. Folding your previous analysis in is both helpful and appropriate. At some point, it would probably be helpful if you can post a new and separate summary of the accumulated data and analysis you have put together about Charles Jackson ROPER and separately Philip Lawson ROPER in a single NEW Thread on each ancestor, CROSSLINKING the prior discussion where appropriate and adding links from the old threads to the new. In so doing, I would encourage you to AVOID speculation about prior ancestors beyond a single generation or two, and instead to focus such discussion in anther separate unifying post about David ROPER, of Cumberland, KY, etc. When the useful and meaningful information is scattered across numerous posts and cross-posts, it can just become too tedious to find! Similarly, I would encourage you to consider adding additional responsive posts when OTHERs, including myself, endeavor to post information for which you have additional useful information. For example, in posting information about "Early Tennessee ROPER Families" I was HOPING that some other ROPER genealogists might take an interest and contribute additional data and analysis themselves. Perhaps everyone has no simply abandoned the older Message Board technology in favor of their own posted family history files with exchanged comments, etc. Unfortunately, I find most of these posted compilations of ROPER family history to now be so riddled with errors, fraudulent ascriptions and speculation that it depresses me to even look at them! Even worse, those posting the specious information seem to believe that they are entitled to cling to fraudulent ascriptions because some particular fraud has become so pervasive or popular! * Admittedly, our more recent conversations and threads haven't focused on Charles Jackson ROPER or Philip Lawson ROPER. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, If one of the David Ropers in the 1810 Pulaski, KY census is the same David Roper in the 1820 Washington County, IL census, which seems to be the case, the fact that George Roper, Sr. and George Roper, Jr. are both listed in the 1818 Washington County, IL census and that no David Roper is listed, lends credence to your claim that the David and Mary Roper who were selling their property in Pulaski, KY in 1819 were moving somewhere else and maybe only arrived in Washington County, IL in 1820. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I have long thought that Thomas Roper in the 1810 Pulaski census, the 1820 Hickman, TN, and the 1830, 1840, and 1850 Clinton, IL census records could be the same person and that he could be Philip L. Roper's father. Here are my notes which I think I posted at some time in the past: "Philip states in his census records that his parents were born in North Carolina and that he was born in Kentucky. Secondary sources state that he was born in Pulaski, KY, although I have found no primary evidence of this. Philip was born abt. 1815 based on his census records. If we look at the 1810 Pulaski, KY census, we find the following Ropers in Pulaski in the L. David Roper database: 1810 US census of KY: 0-10, 11-16, 17-24, 25-44, 45-up page Pulaski Co.: David Roper 0 0 1 2 1 0 1 1 0 1 2 141 David Roper 0 0 2 0 1 0 1 1 1 0 2 141 Thomas Roper 3 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 144 A Thomas Roper is shown to be 25-44 years of age, with presumably a wife 25-44 years of age. There are three male children ages 0-10 and one female age 0-10. Philip L. Roper will not be born for 5 more years. There is no Thomas Roper found in the 1820 Pulaski, KY census. Also, there does not appear to be a record of a Thomas Roper in Illinois in 1820. In 1820, a Thomas Roper can be found in Shelby, KY and another Thomas Roper can be found in Hickman, TN. The Thomas Roper from Shelby, KY, which is actually indexed as a Raper, does not appear to be the Thomas Roper from Pulaski, KY. He is shown as age 45 , which means he would have been born at least by 1775. Thomas Roper of Clinton, ILL was born in abt 1780. Also, the male children of Thomas Roper of Shelby are shown as three under 10, two between 10-15, and one 16-18, and one 16-25, which does not match the 1810 or 1830 census records. There is another Thomas Roper shown in the L. David Roper database in Hickman, TN, which is southeast of Pulaski, KY and fairly close to Nashville, TN. The 1820 US census of TN: page Hickman Co.: Thomas Roper 3 2 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 TN 13 This Thomas Roper is shown to be age 26-45, which would fit the age of Thomas of Clinton, ILL. There are three male children under 10 and two between 10-15. There is one white female between 10-15 and one female 26-45. So the children come close to fitting both the 1810 and 1830 census records. And the reason I bring up this particular Thomas Roper in Hickman, TN, is that it appears that Thomas Roper in Clinton, Ill had a child named Nashville Roper, a rather unusual name, and Hickman County if fairly close to Nashville, TN." I further think that Thomas Roper may be the son of James Roper, b. about 1745 who married a Mary Neal and who may be the same person who filed a pension application in 1833 in Simpson, KY. In that application, James Roper mentions his brother George Roper. A parenthetical note in that application says that an attempt to contact his brother George in Illinois to obtain an affidavit was unsuccessful. Records show a George Washington Roper was residing in Jefferson, IL in 1840. Clinton County, IL almost borders the northeast corner of Jefferson County. Also, George apparently had a son named David Calvin Roper, who is mentioned in George's application and who was also residing in Jefferson, IL in 1850. Also, looking at your second post of March 6, 2014 on David Roper (b. bef 1776, of Crooked Creek, Washington County, IL), I think you have perhaps identified one of the two David Ropers shown in the 1810 Pulaski, KY census. Congratulations! It all makes sense now, although I need to digest this information. The appearance of David Roper in the 1820 Washington County, IL census also suggests to me that one of the two David Roper's who are shown residing in Pulaski, KY in 1810 and who are both 45 plus may be more closely related to Thomas Roper of Pulaski, KY than to each other, i.e father and son. I have also suspected that both Philip Lawson Roper and Charles Jackson Roper were both together in Clinton, IL at some time, although not shown in any census records because of their youth and being unmarried. The wife of Charles Jackson Roper, who secondary sources have identified as Elizabeth Jane Martin, states in a census record that she was born in IL. I believe I have traced her family to Wayne County, IL, which is not far from Clinton, IL. However, until I verify her surname as Martin, I only know that she came from Illinois. \ Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: You will recall my suggestion in the post above to FOLLOW David ROPER FORWARD from Pulaski County, and to check the 1820 Census returns in other places. It seems to me that the fact that Clinton County, IL, was created from Washington County, IL, on 27 Dec 1824, ought to inform our interest in the David ROPER enumerated in Crooked Creek, Washington County, Illinois. I understand that David ROPER, of Crooked Creek, Washington County, Illinois, had the following 1820 Census counts: David ROPER: 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 I have NOT looked at the underlying Census images, which ought to be VERIFIED. I took this data from this transcription of the 1820 Washington County Census data: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cenfiles/il/washington/1820/pg00146.txt This David ROPER seems to have been age 45 or more (b bef 1776). The presence of a male age 18 to 24 (b 1796-1802), a female age 16 to 24 (1796-1804), three male children under age 10 and one female child under age 10 seems to me to be somewhat more consistent with the likelihood that David ROPER's household might include a married son and four grandchildren. If this is, in fact, the other David ROPER enumerated in Pulaski in 1810, then the younger children/grandchildren may have ALL been born in Kentucky. The presence of a Wingate MADDOX nearby David ROPER's 1820 record and several other MADDOXs nearby is interesting as it relates to the Clinton County marriage of Nashville ROPER to Sarah MADDOX/MADDUX on 12 Apr 1832. The appearance of a Thomas NEAL nearby is also interesting. I continue to suspect that David and Mary ROPER sold their land in Pulaski County and MOVED AWAY in 1819 and that we should be looking at 1820 Census records for David ROPER in another place. This was one of the places I suggested that we look. I also think that it makes sense to look at probate records in Washington County and Pulaski County, IL, as well as graves there. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: You might want to re-read recent posts together with a post I made in January 2013: "David ROPERs in the 1820 Census" (4 Mar 2014 7:56PM GMT), above "ROPERs Households in the 1820 Census for Tennessee" (1 Mar 2014 8:29AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1856.1/mb.ashx "Henry Lawson ROPER (b abt 1801-10, d bef 1850), of Clinton, IL" (12 Jan 2013 10:06PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1760/mb.ashx While I have NOT done a thorough study of Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC), of Clinton, IL, the Census data for 1810 in Pulaski, 1820 in Hickman, KY, and 1830, 1840 and 1850 for Clinton, IL, seems reasonably consistent with the possibility that the Thomas ROPER enumerated in each of these places is the same man. Interestingly, adjacent to Thomas ROPER in Clinton, IL, is Henry Lawson ROPER, suggesting the possibility of a close relationship (based upon both proximity and given name) between Thomas ROPER and Philip Lawson ROPER. For convenience, I summarize the Census records for these Thomas ROPERs below: Thomas ROPER: 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [1810] Thomas ROPER: 3 - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 - 3 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [1820] Thomas ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves [1830] Thomas ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves In further support of the inference that Thomas ROPER, of Clinton, was the same Thomas ROPER found in Hickman County, TN, in 1820, are indications in the 1850 Census that N. (Nashville) ROPER was age 40 in 1850 (b abt 1810) and born in Tennessee and that John B. ROPER was age 45 in 1860 and also born in Tennessee (b abt 1815). This is consistent with Thomas ROPER's presence in Tennessee in 1820, though it might cast doubt upon whether Thomas ROPER was previously in Kentucky at 1810. * Nashville ROPER is shown to have married Sarah MADDUX on 12 Apr 1832 in Clinton County, IL. See: "Illinois Marriages, 1815-1935," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V2G2-QQ8 : accessed 07 Mar 2014), Nashville Roper and Sarah Maddux, 1832. Thereafter, Nashville ROPER was enumerated in the 1840 Census in Clinton County, shown to be age 20 to 29 (b abt 1811-20): Nashville ROPER: 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- No Slaves This seems to me to suggest that the age given for Nashville ROPER in 1850 may have been imprecise. * John B. ROPER is shown to be age 1834 and born in Tennessee in 1850 (b abt 1816) when enumerated in Montgomery County, TN. He is shown to be age 45 in 1860 (b abt 1815 - TN) when enumerated in 1860. This is consistent with his age and place of birth in the 1870 Census. In 1880, he is shown to be age 60 (probably erroneously) and born in Tennessee within the enumeration for Centralia, Marion County, IL. His father's and mother's birthplace is shown to be Tennessee, but this seems likely to be erroneous. * Secondary sources have ascribed this Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC) as a son of William ROPER and Keziah YATES, apparently born out of wedlock, since these were married on 31 Aug 1781. I know of know basis for this ascription which seems speculative at best, but more likely simply fraudulent. * It seems to me that further study of this ROPER family is indicated, since it might inform your investigation as to the ancestors of Philip Lawson ROPER! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I completely agree with you that there is some evidence that there existed some relationship between a John ROPER, of Charles City, and a David ROPER too old to be either David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742), son of David and Ann Goodwyn ROPER, OR MY David ROPER (b 13 Nov 1744 - Charles City, VA, d 16 Apr 1808 - Charles City, VA). I think further support for such a relationship might also be found in the 01 Aug 1745 Brunswick Patent to John ROPER for 1601 acres on both sides of Briery Creek in Brunswick County, NOT because it makes any particular reference to Charles ROPER or his family, but rather because Charles ROPER and his sons owned land and his sons settled later near there. See: "Brunswick County VA Land Patent of 1 August 1745 to John ROPER" (22 Jun 2002 9:27AM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/489/mb.ashx Some of the surnames of neighbors will be familiar. I am somewhat more skeptical of the support afforded by 1744 deed. I have long believed that Dave has conflated the significance of that deed, in particular, in ASSUMING that it pertained to land in Charles City County. While the reason for recording in Charles City County MIGHT have been because the land was located there, in those days there were significant OTHER REASONS for recording in a county OTHER THAN where the land was located. There did NOT then exist any procedure in Virginia to have a notary certify a signature or to otherwise authenticate a document. So the procedure for authentication of a document for presentation and use in another distant county (if the person executing the instrument or witnesses to the instrument could NOT appear in person) was to present the executed document to a court in ANY COUNTY, to PROVE the authenticity of the document and to have that Court ORDER the document to be recorded. Thereafter, a County Clerk could prepare a sealed certified copy of what had been recorded. In other words, the Court and the Clerk were performing a role now made more efficient by the existence of statutes providing for notaries. The more ancient procedure is still preserved in law in many places where the statutes for the authentication of documents still provide that ONE of the means of authentication is to sign in the presence of the County Clerk (rather than a notary) OR to prove the document before a court and obtain an order of the court authenticating the instrument. This is NOT to deny that the recording of ANY document in Charles City County pertaining to a David ROPER is not without some significance as to a familial relationship, but rather only to distinguish that this seems to me to be NO PROOF that the recording necessarily involved Charles City County land, though it certainly might. * However, I would also add that I believe you have remained too fixated on the York Peninsula and Charles City County rather than making a wider inquiry into the Maryland and Pennsylvania records. This is not to discount the value of the new data you have found and the analysis and reassessment you have performed on some of this data, which I think has been valuable. But to the extent that you want to be productive in research concerning Charles ROPER's family, I would first focus on the extant Personal Property Tax records for Dinwiddie, Brunswick and Henrico from 1782 to 1850 and then I would devote some time to a study of Pennsylvania and Maryland records. However, I also think that much traction can be gained in understanding both Charles ROPER's family and other ROPER families by focused study in Kentucky and Tennessee using primary records, as the ROPER family has also been understudied in these other places. Pennsylvania and Maryland are places to look for earlier records BEFORE arrival in Virginia. Kentucky and Tennessee are places to look for records as ROPERs were migrating to new states. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>