This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: In my view, REPEATING unsourced speculative ascriptions as fact really sets back genealogy! I made the mistake of doing this myself in past decades and frankly the ROPER Message Board is littered with posts by me that I wish I could now take back. When I run across these, I DO endeavor to post updated or clarifying information. I realize that there WAS a David ROPER who was married to a Sarah and that this David ROPER was important to genealogy. * I also believe that the FIXATION on trying to connect these ROPER families back to New Kent and Charles City reflects a FAILURE to appreciate that there are a number of equally compelling and viable possibilities which others persistently FAIL TO EXPLORE. Your thinking on this is clouded by reliance on the "availability heuristic". You are more readily acquainted and familiar with the New Kent, Charles City and York data because you have spent a lot of time looking at it. You therefore see connections, some possibly valid, others simply reflecting CHANCE. You seize upon perceived connections with ancestors in those place because you are UNFAMILIAR with the data in other places where you really ought to be looking! I have explained in previous posts and a recent e-mail message WHY your analysis of the DNA data is erroneous and I will NOT bother to repeat that analysis here. * I am actually quite UNCONCERNED with proving or disproving particular asserted lineages and actually find the approach of searching for more data to support a particular speculative ascription to be a little tedious. I find it most useful to use the data to identify other possible alternatives and then to SEEK MORE DATA which helps to either support or reject alternative competing hypotheses. I find it far more productive to simply FOLLOW the data wherever it leads rather than seeking to rationalize ways that the data might support a particular desired hypothesis. Your inquiries have helped to identify some NEW data and also have encouraged folks to look at existing data in new ways. This is helpful. Reposting erroneous and misleading data is NOT helpful and doesn't advance the family history. I should have flagged the erroneous mention of Sarah YATES much earlier in this thread. As I reviewed the various posts, I realized that this assertion reappeared as accepted fact over and over. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I think that your analysis in this post is interesting and compelling. The possible significance of these indicated Rutherford County, NC, deeds had escaped my notice: "The following Rutherford County deeds exist: Grantee Grantors Book/ Pag Date Goodman, Jacob Charles Roper 15 17:454 1802 Roper, Charles State of NC (grant) 22 23:475 1806 William Lucas David Roper 22 23:565 1806" Given the central importance of resolving relationships of ROPERs passing through Rutherford County, I am somewhat dismayed that no one ever seems to have bothered to look up and post a transcription of these records! ANY of these records might also include the identity of a wife releasing her dower rights. ALL we have is the Index entries of deeds no one seems to have bother to look at, much less abstract. In my view EACH of these three records is important, but for different reasons. As you point out, there seem to be ZERO ROPERs enumerated within Rutherford in the 1800 Census. This coincides with a period of significant ROPER migration, both through the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky and Tennessee, but especially to Edgefield and Pendleton, SC. Recall that a Charles ROPER died in Edgefield, SC, in 1801. See: "Edgefield Administration of Charles ROPER (1801)" http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.5/mb.ashx I suspect that the widow of this Charles ROPER is the Sarah ROPER who remarried Drury ADAMS. The 1802 Rutherford deed, seemingly from Charles ROPER to Jacob GOODMAN might further inform us about Charles ROPER (b 19 Apr 1758), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, another Charles ROPER, perhaps a grandson of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, who died in Edgefield, or another newly appearing Charles ROPER. In my view that 1802 deed could be especially important! * The 1806 deed is also curious, since by then no ROPERs seem to be actually resident in Rutherford. One wonders at the basis for a grant from the State of North Carolina. * The sale of land by David ROPER to William LUCAS seems to closely follow the grant from North Carolina. * * * While I would agree with you that the latter index entry is at least consistent with a sale of land by David ROPER and a repurchase in Burke, NC, it is also equally consistent with a sale in Rutherford and a migration to Pulaski, KY. * * * One of the things I think you are failing to appreciate is that what these records really reflect is an inherently LAZY approach to genealogy. When one is actually conducting a SERIOUS inquiry, one checks ALL of the indices in a particular place, particularly as to Grantor - Grantee land records. These are especially EASY records to find because recorded deeds have ALWAYS been contemporaneously indexed. For this reason, few BOTHER to simply prepare and post lists of the Grantor-Grantee Indices for a county because any serious genealogist would ALWAYS pull ALL of the deeds to or from a particular surname in conducting an investigation. This REQUIRES going to the MICROFILM and pulling up first the Indices, then the underlying deed records. When you see a sprinkling of entries, such as the ones Dave has posted, this is reflective NOT of any serious genealogical inquiry as to the Rutherford ROPER families, but rather the opportunistic discovery of some posted transcription of the Index entries from a particular book undertaken by some conscientious genealogist from another family. There are probably MANY other unexamined Rutherford deeds which bear upon ROPER relationships. The LAZY genealogist doesn't due the tedious work of examining the underlying records, but instead waits for SOMEONE ELSE to publish an ABSTRACT of the data. The LAZY genealogist then reads the abstract and seeks to reach conclusions without ever examining the underlying primary records, very often thereby missing the significant clues OMITTED by the abstracter. The Abstract is merely a FINDING AID for the primary record! * * * This might beg the question as to why I haven't done this tedious work. The answer is twofold. First, this isn't actually MY branch of the ROPER family. I have again and again sought to assist other ROPER researchers by pointing them in the right direction. But I have persistently found that only a handful ever follow up on my suggestions when they involve doing REAL research as to primary records. There is a point at which I draw the line and REFUSE to expend further time doing primary research for others who decline to do the research themselves. I HAVE done this primary research as it pertains to branches of my own family. Secondly, in many cases I HAVE done the research for other branches, too. I have about 3,000 pages of untranscribed notes from visits to various libraries. When visiting a library or Archive, I always endeavor to copy EVERY ROPER record I come across in case it turns out to be useful to other researchers. However, I place my transcription and sharing focus on the topic under immediate investigation. Every now and then, I try to find the time to transcribe and post additional information that I found in previous primary research forays. I have a pretty good memory and have been able to form some very good general understanding of the migrations and relationships. But this is far too much information keep in one's head as to various details, etc. Sometimes, in copying, particularly of material not central to my investigation, I am going very quickly and take copies for future transcription, intending to come back and analyze the information later. The Will information for John PETERSON I recently posted bearing on the relationship of James ROPER to Mary PATERSON is exemplary. I obtained that information in a visit to the North Carolina State Library and Archives during a three week research visit in August and September 2010. However, I was subsequently sidetracked from devoting much time to organization, review and transcription of the collected information. I have probably only fully analyzed and posted about 5% of what I gathered on that trip. The same is true as to information I collected during a week at the Maryland Archives and two weeks at the Virginia State Library that same year. Finally, I must tell you that I DO become quite BORED when I hear again and again from various ROPERs who want help proving a fraudulent ROPER lineage they found online, whether at Ancestry, within Dave's notoriously misleading and unreliable database or elsewhere. When I advise people that the posted information is erroneous at best, but usually blatantly fraudulent, and suggest avenues to CORRECT and verify the information, they seem to quickly LOSE INTEREST when genealogy begins to resemble REAL WORK. This isn't rocket science. If one wants to find out about land ownership, one goes to the grantor-grantee indices for a place and LOOKS UP the records, then pulling the original deeds. It have been done this way for at least five centuries, well before the advent of the Internet, microfilm or modern finding and indexing aids. If someone merely posts a handful of abstracts from a published source, this reflects a very casual approach to genealogy. You KNOW that someone has made a thorough study of the records in a place when they identify ALL of the indexed records and then post transcriptions of the underlying deeds. This is very tedious and time consuming. But that is how family history is really advanced. 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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Within this post, you briefly cite a record of Calloway ROPER (b abt 1808), orphan of Caty ROPER. This particular ROPER is mentioned in a couple of Pulaski records and then seems to simply disappear, though less than a complete investigation or survey of the Pulaski records has been completed. I have NOT seen the underlying primary records concerning Calloway ROPER, however Dave ROPER has several abstracted records at his Kentucky ROPER pages pertaining to Calloway ROPER. First, is this abstract from the Pulaski deed book: "Pulaski Co. Deed Book, #3, p. 366: This Indenture made between Wm. Fox as Clerk of Co. Court on behalf of Calloway Roper orphan of Caty Roper of one part and David Fizer other part - to serve David Fizer until age of 21 - to teach him the arts of winsor Chair Making - Calloway is about 10 yr. old. 24 Aug 1818." This record suggests that Calloway was born about 1808 and orphaned before 24 Aug 1818. Next is this record almost three years later: "Agreement and order of the County Court of Pulaski Co.. This indenture is made between Wm. Fox as Clerk of the Court aforesaid on behalf of Calloway Roper orphan of Caty Roper of the one part and John Metcalfe Jun of other part - wit, that the said Calloway Roper is honestly and industrously to serve and obey the said John Metcalfe in all lawful Commands until he shall be 21 yr. old and he the said John Metcalfe do agree to find Calloway a sufficient of good clothes and good holesome diet all other Neccessities as long as he should serve him and to learn him all the ministries of Carding and spinning business or trade at his factory and have him taught to read, Common Arithmetic and treat him in a human and tender manner - and at the expiration of Calloway Ropers service who is suppose to be 13 years old about the 1st Sept next. John Metcalfe is to give him 3 pounds 10 shillings & a decent new outfit. 28 May 1821 1821 Calloway Roper to John Metcalf, apps 407" Calloway is again identified as an orphan of Caty ROPER and is his birth is even more precisely described as "who is suppose to be 13 years old about the 1st Sept next." The implication is that on or about 01 Sep 1821, Calloway will turn 13, thereby implying that Calloway was born about 01 Sep 1821. Dave shows two other abstracts from Pulaski Order Book No. 3 in 1817 and 1820: "Pulaski Co. Court Order Book #3: p. 130: Bount out to Christly Yanders-Betsy Ann Roper orphan of ____ Roper agreeable to an act of General Assembly of KY in such case made and provided for the said Betsy Ann Roper. Supposed to be above 3 years old. Aug term 1817. p. 406: Williams Owens kept Calloway Roper for term of 6 months - Nov term 1820. Kept him for 37 cents per week." The former record shows that there was another contemporaneous ROPER orphan in Pulasky County, Betsy Ann ROPER, age 3 in August 1817. Given the close proximity as to time and place, we cannot exclude the possibility that Betsy Ann ROPER is Calloway's younger sister. The latter record seems to indicate that William OWENS cared for Calloway, possibly before he was bound out to David FIZER. Admittedly, this is very sketchy and incomplete information as to either Calloway ROPER (b abt 01 Sep 1808) or Betsy Ann ROPER (b abt 1814). Neither of the David ROPER households in Pulaski reflects a male child under age 10: David ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 2 [Pulaski, KY 1810] David ROPER: 0 - 0 - 2 - 1 - 1 -- 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Pulaski, KY 1810] By contrast, there seem to be three young make children within the household of Thomas ROPER, of Pulaski, in 1810: Thomas ROPER: 3 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 -- 0 [Pulaski, KY 1810] Thomas ROPER would definitely seem to be a candidate to be the father of Calloway ROPER. However, any other ROPER household might have migrated through the Cumberland Gap on the Wilderness Road and settled in Pulaski County between the date of the 1810 Census enumeration and the first of these cited records in August 1817. * The possibility that Thomas ROPER might have died in Pulaski is also inconsistent with my analysis within the post, at least as to prior appearance in Pulaski: "Thomas ROPER (b abt 1780 - NC), of Clinton, IL" (7 Mar 2014 5:18AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx * I would, however, make one other observation as to Calloway ROPER and Betsy Ann ROPER. It seems to me that if these two orphans were closely related to either of the two David ROPERs shown in the 1810 enumeration that it would be somewhat more likely that they might have been taken in by their more immediate relatives. This seems to me to be somewhat suggestive of a more distant relationship. Perhaps there is something else in the Will of David ROPER (b Oct 1755) or other Pulaski records which can further illuminate these early Kentucky ROPERs. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I agree that there is no extant record showing Sarah to have the last name of Yates. In my last couple of posts, after you pointed out the lack of such evidence, I have be more careful to note "allegedly married to" David Yates, solely for the purpose of identifying which of the many David Ropers I am talking about. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that the mutation I have identified is more likely of recent origin. I can trace back 8 generations of Ropers to my cousin Randy Dean Roper with confidence, with the line beginning with John Roper of Halifax, VA, b. abt 1754. I can also trace back 8 generations of Ropers from David Roper of Caswell, NC, who allegedly married Sarah Yates, to Jeffrey Howard Roper, whose Y-DNA test results have the same mutation at the 25th marker. None of these Ropers from each line crossed at any time. They are all distinct fathers and sons. Other than David Roper of Caswell, they could not have shared any other common ancestor. There is also circumstantial evidence that John Roper of Halifax, VA is related to David Roper of Caswell. Considering the naming pattern in my line of a repeated John, David, John, David , John, one would expect David Roper to have a son named John. A John Roper appears in the December 10, 1776 Orange County Poll of election of delegates along with a David Roper and William Roper. Also, John Roper is residing in Halifax, VA, not too far from Caswell, NC, where the two areas are linked by a common river, and where John Yates, who married Jemima Roper, daughter of David Roper of Caswell, recently lived. Can you show me a potentially more recent common ancestor other than the David Roper of Caswell? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: In am running back through the messages in this thread to flag what I view as unsourced, speculative assertions for which there is no supporting evidence. You stated: > "Also, this David Roper is generally considered to be the son of > David Roper and Sarah Yates." While I readily recognize that the Internet is awash in an ocean of unsourced, speculative garbage about the ROPER family, I am NOT aware of any primary support for this assertion. I think someone made it up, ascribed an invented marriage date and the foolishness then went viral. If you know of some support for this assertion, I would appreciate learning of it. I am aware of NO EVIDENCE that Meredith ROPER was a son of David ROPER. And I am aware of NO EVIDENCE that David ROPER married a Sarah YATES. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Yates Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: In this post, you state: > "The claimed descendants of Meredith Roper do not have the mutation at > the 25th marker, but all seem to share a 17 at that marker. The > descendant of Gideon Roper also has the number 17 at the 25th marker. > As a result, Meredith is probably not the son of David Roper and Sarah > Yates. He is more likely the brother of David." What is the basis of your belief that a David ROPER ever married a Sarah YATES and that ANY ROPER DNA Test subjects are descended from such a couple? Are you aware of any primary evidence of this asserted marriage or of any evidence that any test subjects are descended from such persons? I realize that there are some assertions (seemingly invented) floating around on the Internet, but has anyone ever yet identified ANY supporting primary evidence for such a marriage? * As to the DNA test results, it is MOST LIKELY that the mutations you identify are of RECENT origin. There is, to date NO EVIDENCE, of which I am aware that mutations you describe were present in the generations you discuss. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Peterson Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1754.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Within Will Book 3 for Brunswick County, VA, is the John PETERSON, of Brunswick County, VA, Dated 16 May 1763, Proved 23 Jan 1769. An abstract of this Will appears within the compilation "Brunswick County Will Books, Vol. I, Will Books 2 and 3 (1739-69 and 1783-85)", abstracted by Dr. Stephen E. BRADLEY, Jr., at page 139. James ROPER is shown to be one of the witnesses to John PETERSON's Will. The Will identifies this John PETERSON's sons as Batt, William, John and Kinchen. Daughters are indicated to be Temperence TAYLOR, Mary PETERSON, Martha PETERSON, Patience PETERSON, Rebecca PETERSON, Betty PETERSON and Lucy PETERSON. William, John and Kinchen are indicated to be under age 21 at the 16 May 1763 date of this Will. Each of the daughters except for the eldest (married) daughter Temperence is given a bequest of four slaves. Mary PETERSON received slaves Joe, Annakey, George and Lucy. This record seems to place a James ROPER near or adjacent to a John PETERSON in Brunswick County at 16 May 1763. In my related post "Sequence and Timing of the Children of James and Mary ROPER, of Anson County, NC " (27 Dec 2012 6:29PM), I suggested that we might reasonably infer these children and approximate birth dates for James and Mary ROPER's children: Martha ROPER (b abt 1767-8 - NC) Lucy ROPER (b abt 1768-71 - NC) Green ROPER (b abt 1772 - SC) Mary ROPER (b abt 1773-9) William ROPER (b abt 1774-80) Susannah ROPER (b abt 1775-81) I subsequently fixed Green ROPER's more precise genealogical information, further strengthening this analysis: Martha ROPER (b abt 1767-8 - NC) Lucy ROPER (b abt 1768-71 - NC) Green ROPER (b 23 Jul 1773 - Anson Co, NC, d 03 Apr 1855 - Hardeman Co., TN) Mary ROPER (b abt 1773-9) William ROPER (b abt 1774-80) Susannah ROPER (b abt 1775-81) We might therefore expect that James ROPER might have married Mary PETERSON about 1766-7. The Mary PETERSON identified in her father John PETERSON's Will is listed second in what is very likely to be birth order of the daughters, immediately following married eldest sister Temperence. This is suggestive that this Mary PETERSON may have been approaching marriageable age at the 16 May 1763 date of her father's Will. We also see amongst James and Mary ROPER's children the names Martha, Lucy and William, each a given name of Mary Peterson ROPER's identified siblings. The PETERSONs were slave owners and John PETERSON bequeathed slaves to each child, as did James ROPER. Since we were already expecting that James ROPER's wife might be a PETERSON, the close conformity of this record to the date of birth of James and Mary ROPER's eldest child, together with James ROPER's presence as a witness seems to support a very strong inference that the wife of James ROPER (d aft 17 Aug 1781 - Anson, NC) was Mary PETERSON, daughter of John PETERSON. When members of this ROPER family get over their fixation with their fraudulent lineage purporting to connect them to New Kent County, perhaps they can carefully check the extant Virginia and North Carolina Personal Property Tax records to better fix remaining details. I suspect that this James ROPER may have been born in Pennsylvania or Maryland. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Goodwyn Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1754.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: It seems appropriate to Crosslink my thread concerning James ROPER's son Green ROPER (b 23 Jul 1773 - Anson Co, NC, d 03 Apr 1855 - Hardeman Co., TN): "Green ROPER (b 23 Jul 1773 - Anson Co, NC, d 03 Apr 1855 - Hardeman Co., TN)" (30 Dec 2012 3:42PM) http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.roper/1755/mb.ashx Despite conclusive evidence as to correct relationships, members of the families of James ROPER's Will (d aft 17 Aug 1781 - Anson, NC) and his son Green ROPER (b 23 Jul 1773 - Anson Co, NC, d 03 Apr 1855 - Hardeman Co., TN) seem to continue to cling to discredited fraudulent lineages linking this ROPER family to a ROSSER family in Johnston County, NC, and then back to New Kent County. Of course, James ROPER, of Anson, is not connected to these families at all, as shown in my original post as to his Will. Instead, he seems to be closely related to the family of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, and is possibly Charles ROPER's nephew. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1692.4.2.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Bill, I've been on the computer too long today and my mind is getting to be like mush. The "William Roper" in the 1800 Greenville, SC census may very well be a William Ross. In any case, he is not the William Roper in the 1802 Edgefield, SC record. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: batchelorw Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1692.4.2.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I agree whole heartedly with your analysis that David Roper, the younger, of Edgefield, is the son of David Roper (b. June 29, 1742, d. bef 10 Dec, 1802 - SC). Thanks for correcting the post. I've also been thinking about this younger David of Edgefield. He does not appear in the 1800 Edgefield, SC census. Possibly he was still living with David, the father, in 1800. These are the Ropers who appear in the 1800 Edgefield, SC census, as shown in the images on Ancestry.com: Charles Roper 1-0-1-0-0 1-0-1-0-0-0-0 Edgefield, SC (no slaves) p. 41 Samuel Roper 1-0-1-0-0 0-0-1-0-0-0-0 Edgefield, SC (no slaves) p. 60 David Roper 0-1-1-1-1 0-0-1-0-1-0-2 Edgefield, SC (2 slaves) p. 20 Thus, David Roper shown, age 45 plus, who would be the father, besides having his presumed wife of 45 plus in the home, has one male age 26-44, one male age 16-25, and one male age 10-15, and a female age 16-25. It is possible that the 26-44 year old male in this household is the younger David Roper, and that the 16-25 year old female is his wife. As we know, David Roper the younger is shown in transcribed inventory records of the estate of David Roper: "*Estate of David Roper, Benjamin Roper Admr. d. before Dec. 10, 1802 Inventory of goods - Dec 30, 1802 Inventory included the following negroes: 1 boy Joshua, purchased by David Glover $460 1 man Tom purchased by David Roper $300 Paid legatees: John Roper $220 " David Roper $110 " Samuel Roper $110 " William Roper $111 " Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 " Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) Nov 1806 note a payment by rent of the land to the widow Roper for the year 1803 $143.64" David the younger is shown both as a legatee and as the purchaser of Tom. David Roper the younger then disappears from the Edgefield records. Where did he go? Is it possible that David Roper the Younger went to Pulaski, KY and then appears in the 1810 Pulaski, KY census, along with the Revolutionary war David Roper? Consider again the census records for the 1810 Pulaski, KY census: David Roper 0-0-1-2-1 0-1-1-0-1-2 (2 slaves) Pulaski, KY p. 21 David Roper 0-0-2-0-1 0-1-1-1-0-2 (2 slaves) Pulaski, KY p. 22 The first David Roper is shown as age 45 plus, with his presumed wife at age 45 plus. The second David Roper is shown as age 45 plus, with a presumed wife of 26-44. This is consistent with the ages shown for the male 26-44 and the female 16-25 in the 1800 Edgefield, SC census record for David Roper. However, ages for the children shown in the 1800 Edgefield, SC census and the 1810 Pulaski, KY census do not match up. In reference to the data for William Roper in 1800 Greenville, SC census, this is what is shown on images at Ancestry.com William Roper 2-0-0-1-0 1-0-0-1-0- 0-1 (one slave) Greenville, SC p. 22 Thus, William is shown as age 26-44, and his presumed wife is also 26-44. There are two males <10 and one female <10. Obviously, this William Roper is not the same William Roper of Edgefield County, SC who left a will dated in 1803 in and in which he states that he has six sons, some if not all of whom are adults. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Limbecker Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1710.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The Jack RYAN Book shows that Samuel ROPER's wife died on 01 Sep 1814. This seems to indicate that Rebecca LIMBECKER was Samuel ROPER's second wife. See: "Edgefield ROPER Mentions in the Jack RYAN Book" (9 Mar 2014 8:35PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.1/mb.ashx This same source shows Samuel ROPER to have died on 02 Mar 1820, which, remarkably, is the very same day that James E. ROPER (b 02 Mar 1820 - Edgefield, SC, d 25 Nov 1889 - Guthrie, IA) seems to have been born! While a mother dying in childbirth is common, for the father to die proximate to the child's birth is rather unusual, but the Jack RYAN Book seems to be reasonably reliable and other facts therein seem to check out. Samuel ROPER also disappears from the Census that year. This Samuel ROPER seems to be the son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC) and grandson of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN. See: "Will of William ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, Dated 07 Jun 1803" (9 Mar 2014 10:50PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.3/mb.ashx "William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC)" http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx * The Census data for Samuel ROPER for 1800 seems to suggest that he may have already then had two sons under age 10 (b abt 1791-1800). Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1692.4.2.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I realize that this is a very old thread and post and that your thinking has much evolved since you posted this information. But I stumbled back across it while searching for something else. Given my recent review of Edgefield, SC, ROPER primary data, I wanted to post a clarifying correction regarding one of your assertions in the above post, lest others be confused of misled and not find the more recently posted primary data and analysis. He said above: > "It is apparent that Wiley Roper is about to die and he does not have a written will. Usually, > family members gather around when they have a parent, brother or sister dying. Benjamin > Roper is probably the brother-in-law mentioned in William Roper's will. Nancy Roper would be > Benjamin's wife, the daughter of William Roper, and the sister of Wiley Roper. But who is > David Roper? > It could be argued that this David Roper is the David Roper, b. 1743, Dinwiddie, VA. However, > this David Roper died in 1802, Edgefield, SC and left a will. Wiley Roper's will is dated five > years later. For that reason, I believe that this David Roper is a brother of Wiley Roper and the > son of William Roper. There is no other David Roper in the 1800 and 1810 Edgefield, SC > Census that I can see it could be." The identities and relationships can be discerned from a reading of the extant Edgefield Probate data. The legatees of David ROPER's (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) estate in 1802 include a David ROPER, listed second. See: "Edgefield, SC, Administration of Estate of David ROPER (1802)" http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.6/mb.ashx Members of Wiley ROPER's family are identified in the Will of William ROPER, dated 07 Jun 1803. See: "Will of William ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, Dated 07 Jun 1803" (9 Mar 2014 10:50PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.3/mb.ashx Although there is one unnamed child in William ROPER's Will (which mentions SIX children, but only identifies four by name), the missing male child seems likely to be Samuel ROPER. The missing female child seem likely to be the wife of William's nephew Benjamin ROPER. More information is included in other posts in the same thread and links therefrom. Nancy ROPER seems to be William ROPER's daughter and she seems to have married Jacob EARNEST/ERNST, though no marriage record has been found. This ascription seems not to be conclusive, but I believe that the primary data supports a strong inference about this. David ROPER, the younger, of Edgefield, would therefore seem to be the son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC). * I seem to have overlooked the Greenville, SC, Census data you cite. Can you reverify that data and show us the precise counts, age ranges and slave counts? There are five age ranges for white males, five ranges for white females as well as a category for over free persons and slaves. The counts given simply do not make sense! Are the counts from the Greenville record consistent with the probate information for William ROPER shown in Edgefield? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Lawson Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1698.7/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: Have you ever taken a look at the William LAWSON Patent in Brunswick dated 20 Aug 1745? William LAWSON's purchase or settlement there seems to have been contemporaneous with the Brunswick Patent of John ROPER dated 01 Aug 1745. See my prior post: "Other Brunswick VA Patents on Bryery/Briery Creek or Contemporaneous in Time with John ROPER's 1745 Patent" http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/489.2/mb.ashx Images of the William LAWSON patent ought to be available online at the website of the Virginia State Library. * It might be a good idea to get a look at the extant Brunswick Deed Books as well as Personal Property Tax records to see whether LAWSONS continued to be present in Brunswick later. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.3/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Frank: I want to CORRECT a few things I improvidently stated in the above extemporaneous post. First, as to this statement: >That leaves David ROPER Jr. He is listed LAST AND he has a smaller family than the others. > We know he CANNOT be Charles ROPER Jr.'s (b 19 Apr 1758) son. He seems most likely to > be the son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) or Meredith ROPER. > I am going to go with David ROPER Jr. being the son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742). As I think I clarified in another post within this thread, you are absolutely CORRECT that one of the two David ROPERs shown within the Rutherford Census for 1790 MUST be David ROPER (b Oct 1755 - Orange, NC), the Revolutionary War veteran later found in Pulaski County, KY. Although David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) is KNOWN to have had a son named David, it does NOT seem possible that BOTH David ROPERs shown within the 1790 enumeration are father and son David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) and his son named David. ONE of the Rutherford David ROPERs is the War veteran. The other MIGHT BE either David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742), his son David or another contemporaneous David ROPER. * Second, I intemperately stated without carefully reviewing my notes: "Returning to the central theme, I am inclined to believe that David ROPER's sons probably included: Charles ROPER (the eldest) William ROPER James ROPER" The extant probate records for the Estate of David ROPER in Edgefield, SC, identify legatees or intestate beneficiaries paid from the proceeds of David ROPER's Estate. To improve the visibility and accessibility of this probate information, I have re-posted some of Billie JONES' old posts about this within this post: "Edgefield, SC, Administration of Estate of David ROPER (1802)" (10 Mar 2014 8:34AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.6/mb.ashx I also recently discussed this probate information in conjunction with the extant Census data and other information from both Brunswick, VA, and Edgefield, SC, in these two posts: "Combining the Extant Probate Information for David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) and William ROPER (d bef Aug 1810 - SC)" (8 Mar 2014 1:34AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516.1/mb.ashx I concluded in that post that the surviving children of David ROPER David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) at his death were: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1766-76) John ROPER (b abt 1766-84) David ROPER Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84) William ROPER (d abt 21 Jul 1810) Sarah ROPER (b 1775-84) Daniel ROPER (b abt 1885-90) (youngest minor son, age 10 to 15) * I have since found some additional primary evidence which shows somewhat more detail as to sons Benjamin and Daniel: Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC) John ROPER (b abt 1766-84, d 24 Aug 1820 - Edgefield, SC) David ROPER Samuel ROPER (b abt 1775-84) William ROPER (d abt 21 Jul 1810) Sarah ROPER (b 1775-84) Daniel ROPER (b 22 Mar 1785, d 17 Jul 1819 - Edgefield, SC) * The probate information seems to indicate that this David ROPER left a living widow in 1803, though her name is not indicated in the abstracted records. While other secondary sources have identified the widow as "Sarah," I have seen NO PRIMARY DATA which would seem to support such an ascription. I believe that this is a misascription based upon the erroneous interpretation that a widow received an equal share with the children. As noted in some earlier posts within this thread, David ROPER, of Brunswick, is shown in several records to be married to a "Mary." There seems to be NO reason to believe that Mary ROPER died. This is probably the widow David ROPER left in 1802. * David ROPER's (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) death about 1802 certainly precludes his consideration as one of the two David ROPERs in Pulaski County. I will post a more thoughtful and comprehensive message pulling together what I believe is the primary evidence regarding David ROPER David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) in its own thread. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Moore Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Implicit in this prior post, you also seem to infer some significance to David ROPER taking title to the land in his own name. I think that you misunderstand the nature of the law of real property of this era. Usually, the wife is treated essentially as unified in the person of her husband EXCEPT as to statutes creating a right of dower. Thus, almost ALL titles of this period are taken ONLY in the name of the husband. But when the property is sold the deed needed to be executed by both husband and wife, or at least the wife needed to make a written release of dower. I challenge you to find ANY deed in or out of the ROPER family of this era in which the grantee includes the wife's identity. By contrast, when the wife was living, the wife was frequently identified, particularly as to property acquired during the marriage upon which the couple made their homestead (even before the development of express "homestead" provisions). I would ascribe NO SIGNIFICANCE whatsoever to the omission of the wife's name from the indicated deed. It has no legal bearing on the wife's title to the property, though a prenuptial agreement could possibly alter such rights, especially as to property acquired before marriage. * Separately, I wonder if we should be taking a closer look at the counterparties to the indicated sale. Unfortunately, MOORE is a rather common name. Benjamin ROPER and Laura ROPER had a son name William MOORE (b 18 Aug 1767), as well as other male MOORE children both older and younger. Benjamin MOORE and his wife Nancy ROPER migrated to Williamson County, TN. I wonder if we should be looking at the migration patterns of various grandchildren of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN to include those without the ROPER surname to find out if some of these settled in Pulaski County, KY? Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.8/mb.ashx Message Board Post: On March 7, 2002, Edgefield researcher Billie JONES first presented us with a transcription of the nuncupative Will of Wiley ROPER, dated 19 Nov 1807 and sworn to and record on 24 Nov 1807: "Will of WILEY ROPER Box 44 - 1875 Recorded Nov 24, 1807 South Carolina, Edgefield District Personally appreared before me Benj Roper, David Roper and Nancy Earnest who being sworn . sayeth that on the 19th day of Nov., 1807, they were at the house of Wiley Roper and was called upon by said Roper as witnesses to his verbal will (Viz) that is to say his desire was that all his just debts be paid by his Brother Joel, & that his three horses, plows, and years fodder, tobacco, Cotton, saddle, Bridel & Rifle gun be sold on a [__] of twelve months & the remaining part of his estate to his wife Peggey in fee simple and that the above will . was the last will & testament of Wiley Roper Dec'd & that Joel Roper should be his Executor to settle all his estate. Sworn before me this 24th day of Nov, 1807 /s/ Benjamin Roper /s/ David Roper /s/ Nancy [ea-nes]" "ROPERS - More Probate records from Box 43-44, Edgefield Co. Probate Records." (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500) * NOTE: Later transcriptions of this abstracted information posted by Billie JONES seem to introduce an error identifying brother "Jack" rather than brother "Joel" and sometimes show "Willey" instead of "Wiley". However, I have NOT examined the original probate records. Those with a keen interest in this family OUGHT TO examine the underlying probate records and post full transcriptions of additional documents. * * * Mrs. JONES reposted this information, together with other ROPER Wills and abstracts on April 13, 2002: "Will of Wiley Roper Box 44 - 1875 Recorded Nov 24, 1807 South Carolina, Edgefield District Personally appeared before me Benj Roper, David Roper and Nancy Earnest who being sworn . sayeth that on the 19th day of Nov., 1807, they were at the house of Wiley Roper and was called upon by said Roper as witnesses to his verbal will (Viz) that is to say his desire was that all his just debts be paid by his Brother Joel, & that his three horses, plows, and years fodder, tobacco, Cotton, saddle, Bridel & Rifle gun be sold on a [__] of twelve months & the remaining part of his estate to his wife Peggey in fee simple and that the above will . was the last will & testament of Wiley Roper Dec'd & that Joel Roper should be his Executor to settle all his estate. Sworn before me this 24th day of Nov, 1807 /s/ Benjamin Roper /s/ David Roper /s/ Nancy [ea-nes]" "ROPER wills, Edgefield Co, SC transcribed by Billie Jones" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:37:51 -0400) * * * On September 27, 2002, Mrs. JONES again cited this abstracted information in discussing several ROPER Wills and estates: "[Son of William and Sarah Roper:] *Will of Wiley Roper Box 44 - 1875 Recorded Nov 24, 1807 South Carolina, Edgefield District Personally appeared before me Benj Roper, David Roper and Nancy Earnest who being sworn . sayeth that on the 19th day of Nov., 1807, they were at the house of Wiley Roper and was called upon by said Roper as witnesses to his verbal will (Viz) that is to say his desire was that all his just debts be paid by his Brother Joel, & that his three horses, plows, and years fodder, tobacco, Cotton, saddle, Bridel & Rifle gun be sold on a [__] of twelve months & the remaining part of his estate to his wife Peggey in fee simple and that the above will . was the last will & testament of Wiley Roper Dec'd & that Joel Roper should be his Executor to settle all his estate. Sworn before me this 24th day of Nov, 1807 /s/ Benjamin Roper /s/ David Roper /s/ Nancy [ea-nes]" "Ropers of Edgefield Dist, SC." (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:54:54 -0400) * * * On September 30, 2004, Mrs. JONES re-posted this abstracted probate information along with her notes concerning relationships: "BOX 44, Pkg. 1875 Willey Roper, Recorded Nov 24, 1807 Personally appreared before me, Benjamin Roper, David Roper, & Nancy Earnest who being sworn.. say that on the 19th of Nov, 1807 they were at the house of Wiley Roper & was called upon by said Roper as witnesses to his verbal Will, viz: All his just debts to be paid by our brother Jack & that his three horses plows and ? years of fodder, cotton, saddel bridel & ___ gun be sold on the breadth of twelve months & the remaining part of his estate to his wife Peggy in fee simple. And that the above will was the last will and Test. Of Wiley Roper, and that Joel Roper should be his executor to settle all his estate. Sworn on 24th day of Nov 1807 Benjamin Roper, David Roper, and Nancy Earnest. -------------------------- This sees to match Wiley Roper m. Peggy in my files? I think this is the Wiley of this family: Descendants of William Roper 1 William ROPER b: June 23, 1753 probably Dinwiddie VA d: Bet. June 1803 - May 1804 Edgefield Co, SC . Sarah HARD b: VA ..... 2 Samuel ROPER b: Abt. 1777 VA ......... Rebecca LIMBECKER d: February 1820 Edgefield Co, SC *... 2 Wiley ROPER b: Abt. 1780 d: Abt. 1807 ......... Peggy UNKNOWN ..... 2 Joel ROPER b: Bet. 1780 - 1790 d: Bef. August 30, 1845 Edgefield Co, SC ......... Julian UNKNOWN b: Abt. 1800 d: November 10, 1851 ............ 3 Frances ROPER ................ ? MAYSON Father: Archibald Mayson ............ 3 Joel C. ROPER ............ 3 Sarah Amanda ROPER d: Bet. 1831 - 1834 ................ Daniel D. BRUNSON b: October 30, 1806 SC d: September 11, 1877 Burial: Antioch Baptist Church, Edgefield Co, SC ................... 4 Amanda BRUNSON ................... 4 Samuel BRUNSON b: Abt. 1831 ............ 3 Benjamin ROPER b: Abt. 1833 ............ 3 James M. ROPER b: Abt. 1839 ............ 3 John ROPER b: Abt. 1841 d: Bef. July 31, 1844 ..... 2 Nancy ROPER b: Abt. 1784 ......... Jacob EARNEST, Jr. ..... 2 Sally ROPER b: Abt. 1786 ..... 2 John ROPER b: Abt. 1788 ..... 2 Early ROPER b: Abt. 1790 More information available upon request. Some of the Sources: 1. Some Southern Roper Trees: A Book of Clues, compiled by June Roper Walton, 1991 (P. O. Box 748, Four Oaks, NC 27524). 2. Edgefield Co. Probate, Will of William Roper: [WPA will transcfriptions of Edgefield Co, SC Vol 1 Bk. A (microfilm # ST 0541 (AD521), p. 536] SC State Archives. 3. Roper-Moore family Bible records, sent to me by Anne Swanson, P.O. Box 21033, Columbia, SC 29221 [See the Archived record for e-mail address]. 4. Will abstract of Joel Roper, p. 187 [Will Book D., p. 260, 31 July 1844] 5. A few are found in the 1850 Edgefield Co, Census, The District, p. 156A" "More info. for Probate Box 44 - William and Wiley Roper Probate" (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:53:06 -0400) * * * Mrs. JONES re-posted this information on October 5, 2004: "BOX 44, 1875 Willey Roper, Recorded Nov 24, 1807 Personally appreared before me, Benjamin Roper, David Roper, & Nancy Earnest who being sworn.. say that on the 19th of Nov, 1807 they were at the house of Wiley Roper & was called upon by said Roper as witnesses to his verbal Will, viz: All his just debts to be paid by our brother Jack & that his three horses plows and ? years of fodder, cotton, saddel bridel & ___ gun be sold on the breadth of twelve months & the remaining part of his estate to his wife Peggy in fee simple. And that the above will was the last will and Test. Of Wiely Roper, and that Joel Roper should be his executor to settle all his estate. Sworn on 24th day of Nov 1807 Benjamin Roper, David Roper, and Nancy Earnest." "ROPER wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:53:26 -0400) * * * * * This Wiley ROPER is rather clearly identified as the son of William and Sarah ROPER within William ROPER's Will dated 07 Jun 1803 and proved 25 Oct 1803. See my prior posts: "Will of William ROPER, of Edgefield, SC, Dated 07 Jun 1803" (9 Mar 2014 10:50PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.3/mb.ashx "William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC)" (8 Mar 2014 9:26PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1858/mb.ashx * * * The Nancy EARNEST mentioned seems to be Wiley ROPER's sister mentioned in their father's Will, who seems to have married Jacob EARNEST. One EARNEST/ERNEST researcher later places this couple in Sullivan County, Indiana. It would be helpful to have more precise information as to Nancy Roper ERNEST's date of birth if this can be garnered from Census or other primary documents. * * * Wiley ROPER was never enumerated as a head of household in the U.S. Census. His widow, Peggy is shown in the 1810 Census for Edgefield, SC: Peggy ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 [Edgefield, 1810] Wiley and Peggy ROPER seem to have had two daughters, under age 10 at the 1810 Census, though no children are mentioned in the nuncupative Will. Of course, it is possible that Peggy had children from a prior marriage or that she is caring for other youngsters. * I had previously discussed Peggy ROPER within a post from July 2002: "Sorting Out SC ROPER Widows Shown in the Census - 1810" (24 Jul 2002 11:39PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516/mb.ashx Billie JONES' discovery of the Wiley ROPER nuncupative Will seems to have been mostly overlooked by me in that post, though I mention that other secondary sources showed Peggy as Wiley ROPER's widow. My speculation about Margaret / Margarite ROPER within that same post was farther OFF THE MARK. The nuncupative Will of William ROPER dated 21 Jul 1810 clarifies that Margarite ROPER was the widow of William ROPER. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Moore Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.7/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Given the importance of various ROPER relationships and ongoing discussions in a number of posts regarding Edgefield ROPERs to the family of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, it occurred to me that it might be helpful to less experienced ROPER genealogists to understand the extant information which appears in the MOORE - ROPER Bible. To that end, I have cross-linked a post wherein I introduced and explained this information to Frank BATCHELOR last year: "Some Further Notes on the MOORE - ROPER Family Bible" (28 Jun 2013 1:11PM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1807.3/mb.ashx Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.6/mb.ashx Message Board Post: On March 7, 2002, Edgefield researcher Billie JONES also first posted an abstract of the administration of the Estate of David ROPER, deceased, taking place in 1802: "Found a bunch of Roper wills and administrations. I have an interest in this family, as I found Nancy COURSEY in the 1850 Edgefield Co., SC Census as follows: A Nancy Coursey b. 1818 can be found living in the household with Julian Roper female age 50 and Benjamin Roper 17, farmer, James 11 and John 9. Need to recheck. I think Benjamin is son, but don't have age for him. Is Nancy her widowed daughter. At this time all this is speculation. Wiley Coursey who had wife Nancy is not found in the 1850 census, so assume he may be deceased. Maybe she is his wife. All speculation at this time. Looking for answers. Also have Benjamin ROPER [too old to be the above Benjamin of 1850] .. Elizabeth Emily COGBURN b: April 19, 1812 in SC Father: Aaron Cogburn Mother: Sarah Huff Have a whole family of Ropers attached to a Dodd family in Ga. connected to my husband's line. [1880 Census: East Armuchee, Walker, Georgia, p. 404D [Source: FHL Film 1254169 National Archives Film T9-0169] 1 James M. ROPER b: Abt. 1836 SC [Could he be the James in the first family] .. Elizabeth DODD b: Abt. 1845 GA d: Bef. 1901 Father: Elijah Dodd Mother: Mary Ann "Anna" Shore .... 2 James ROPER b: Abt. 1863 GA .... 2 Susan ROPER b: Abt. 1868 GA .... 2 Amanda ROPER b: Abt. 1872 GA .... 2 Mary Jane ROPER b: Abt. 1878 GA 1 Frances P. ROPER b: Abt. 1842 GA GA GA .. Cicero Columbus DODD b: June 12, 1842 in Hall Co, Ga. m: December 25, 1862 in assume Banks Co. Ga. d: December 27, 1920 in Ga. Father: Elijah Dodd GA Mother: Mary Ann "Anna" Shore GA .... 2 Harvey A. DODD b: Abt. 1864 GA .... 2 Richard N. DODD b: Abt. 1872 GA .... 2 Lilly D. DODD b: Abt. 1873 GA .... 2 Perillse DODD b: Abt. 1876 GA .... 2 Frendly DODD b: Abt. 1878 GA Since all of the parents of the above were also born in GA., probably not of SC Ropers?? ... Estate of DAVID ROPER, Benjamin Roper Admr. d. before Dec. 10, 1802 Inventory of goods - Dec 30, 1802 Inventory included the following negroes: 1 boy Joshua, purchased by David Glover $460 1 man Tom purchased by David Roper $300 Paid legatees: John Roper $220 " David Roper $110 " Samuel Roper $110 " William Roper $111 " Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 " Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) Nov 1806 note a payment by rent of the land to the widow Roper for the year 1803 $143.64" "ROPERS - More Probate records from Box 43-44, Edgefield Co. Probate Records." (Lee and Billie Jones, Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500) NOTE: This post by Mrs. JONES also contained the Will of William ROPER dated 07 Jun 1803, the noncupative Will of Wiley ROPER dated 19 Nov 1807, as well as the noncupative Will of William ROPER dated 21 Jul 1810. These Wills are discussed within separate posts in this thread. * * * This information was re-posted by Mrs. JONES on April 13, 2002: "Estate of David Roper, Benjamin Roper Admr. d. before Dec. 10, 1802 Inventory of goods - Dec 30, 1802 Inventory included the following negroes: 1 boy Joshua, purchased by David Glover $460 1 man Tom purchased by David Roper $300 Paid legatees: John Roper $220 " David Roper $110 " Samuel Roper $110 " William Roper $111 " Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 " Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) Nov 1806 note a payment by rent of the land to the widow Roper for the year 1803 $143.64" "ROPER wills, Edgefield Co, SC transcribed by Billie Jones" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:37:51 -0400) * * * Mrs. JONES again reposted the information about David ROPER's estate on September 27, 2002, noting that she was in the process of obtaining the other probate information for ROPER Wills she had already transcribed: "*Estate of David Roper, Benjamin Roper Admr. d. before Dec. 10, 1802 Inventory of goods - Dec 30, 1802 Inventory included the following negroes: 1 boy Joshua, purchased by David Glover $460 1 man Tom purchased by David Roper $300 Paid legatees: John Roper $220 " David Roper $110 " Samuel Roper $110 " William Roper $111 " Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 " Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) Nov 1806 note a payment by rent of the land to the widow Roper for the year 1803 $143.64 These names show up in almost all of the Roper families: David, Samuel, William and Benjamin!!!" "Ropers of Edgefield Dist, SC." (Lee and Billie Jones, Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:54:54 -0400) * * * Edgefield researcher Mrs. Billie JONES also re-posted this abstract of the administration of the Estate of David ROPER, deceased, on October 8, 2002, : "*Estate of David Roper, Benjamin Roper Admr. d. before Dec. 10, 1802 Inventory of goods - Dec 30, 1802 Inventory included the following negroes: 1 boy Joshua, purchased by David Glover $460 1 man Tom purchased by David Roper $300 Paid legatees: John Roper $220 " David Roper $110 " Samuel Roper $110 " William Roper $111 " Sarah Roper $42.28 and $60 (later paid her several very small payments) The above sworn to the 18th Jan 1805 " Benjamin Roper $110.26 (paid Jan 18, 1806) Nov 1806 note a payment by rent of the land to the widow Roper for the year 1803 $143.64" "Estate of David Roper, 1802" (Lee and Billie Jones, Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:16:04 -0400) * * * On May 31, 2004, Mrs. JONES further discussed Charles ROPER apparently in response to a Query, noting in part: "Regarding this part of your posting: Extracted from: HOPKINS, William Lindsay: Some Wills From the Burned Counties of Virginia and Other Wills Not Listed in Virginia Wills and Administrations 1632-1800; Copyright, 1995, by W. L. Hopkins; Published, 1995, by Iberian Publishing Co., Athens, GA, USA --- p. 54: Dtd. 13 Sept 1789; Prob. 15 Feb 1790 William HUDSON of Dinwiddie Co. Nancy WILES. Irby HUDSON, son of Irby HUDSON. Brother Irby HUDSON. Brother Tuttle HUDSON, slave in the possession of William YATES. Sister Penelope HUDSON. Sally HUDSON, daughter of Irby HUDSON. Penelope YOUNG. Wits.: ****Charles ROPER, Jr., Joel ROPER, Elizabeth ROPER (Land Office Certificates, Box 30, Folder 4) ----------------------------- Like you, I have gathered information on the Ropers, as they show up in the Holloway and some of the other lines I research. I have the above mentioned Ropers, Charles and Joel, with Charles' wife Elizabeth Butler in the following family, all NOT proven with quality sources in my files, but sent to me by others, without a listing of the sources used, so further research is needed to prove the info. [I am assuming the Elizabeth above is the wife of Charles, but this Elizabeth could be someone else. Charles Roper [ son of a John Roper per the research of Anne Swanson, P.O. Box 21033, Columbia, SC 29221 [See Archived post for e-mail address]. She sent a copy of the following document: John Roper Inventory: To the worshipful Court of Charles County an Inventory of the Estate of John Roper ...... Nov 8, 1759 and signed by Jean Roper, David Roper, and Charles Roper, his Executors. ] 1 Charles ROPER b: Bef. 1733 d: in Probably VA. . Ann GOODWIN ..... 2 Lowerel ROPER b: June 29, 1742 ..... 2 David ROPER b: June 29, 1742 in Dinwiddie, VA d: 1802 in Edgefield Co, SC ..... 2 Jane ROPER b: March 06, 1743/44 ......... BROWDER ..... 2 Millie ROPER b: August 27, 1747 ......... MALON/MAHON ..... 2 Annie ROPER b: August 01, 1749 ......... Dennis STILL ..... 2 Jesse ROPER b: May 31, 1751 ..... 2 William ROPER b: June 23, 1753 in probably Dinwiddie VA d: Bet. June 1803 - May 1804 in Edgefield Co, SC ......... Sarah HARD b: in VA ..... 2 Allen ROPER b: April 03, 1756 ..... 2 Charles ROPER b: April 09, 1758 ......... Elizabeth BUTLER ..... 2 Jeremiah ROPER b: April 26, 1760 ..... 2 Ann ROPER b: April 13, 1763 ......... Isham COLEMAN ..... 2 Joel ROPER b: June 26, 1766 ......... Lucy SHACKLEFORD Sources: 1. Jo Ann Ernest [See Archived post for e-mail address] 2. Roper-Moore family Bible records, sent to me by Anne Swanson, P.O. Box 21033, Columbia, SC 29221 [See Archived post for e-mail address]. 3. JIM MOORE [See Archived post for e-mail address] Most is sourced to #2, which carries a good bit of weight since they are Bible Records." "Re: witnesses Charles & wife Elizabeth and Joel Roper" (Lee and Billie Jones, Mon, 31 May 2004 17:48:16 -0400) NOTE: This post continues with some further discussion of William ROPER's 21 Dec 1798 conveyance to Samuel ROPER and William ROPER's 07 Jun 1803 Will, which are discussed in other threads. * * * Mrs. JONES includes a reference to her probate abstract for David ROPER amongst an index of various Edgefield Wills she abstracted to date on March 20, 2002. "Wills" (Lee and Billie Jones, Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:04:47 -0500) * * * * * This David ROPER is enumerated in the 1800 Census for Edgefield, one of only two ROPERs shown in Edgefield that year: David ROPER: 0 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 -- 0 - 2 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] In 1800, Samuel ROPER is the ONLY ROPER other than David enumerated in Edgefield. Samuel ROPER: 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 [Edgefield, SC - 1800] This Samuel ROPER seems to be the nephew of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) and son of William ROPER (b 26 Jun 1753 - VA, d bef Oct 1803 - Edgefield, SC). * * * I have recently discussed this David ROPER is several other extemporaneous (as opposed to more deliberate) posts, including these two recent posts: "David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742), son of Charles and Ann ROPER" (5 Mar 2014 2:27AM GMT) http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1851.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.2/mb.ashx "Combining the Extant Probate Information for David ROPER (d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) and William ROPER (d bef Aug 1810 - SC)" http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/516.1/mb.ashx I intend to post a more thoughtful and comprehensive post about what is know of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742, d bef 10 Dec 1802 - SC) in the near future. Unfortunately, my thinking about this David ROPER is scattered across a number of various posts across more than a decade and my thinking has somewhat changed as additional information has emerged. In a couple of recent posts, I had speculated about the possibility that David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) might have still been living in 1810 and been the second David ROPER shown in the Pulaski County, Kentucky, Census. After reviewing my notes and the primary records from Edgefield, I believe that David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742) died in Edgefield in 1802. Even so, the David ROPER later found in Pulaski and Clinton County, IL, is probably from Charles and Ann Goodwyn ROPER's family and deserves additional study. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Glanton, Adams Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.5/mb.ashx Message Board Post: An Archived post by Edgefield researcher "census20" shows the existence of an administration of the Estate of Charles ROPER in 1801: "Page 390 Letters of administration on the estate of CHARLES ROPER, given SALLEY ROPER 1-27-1801. Recorded 11-26-1801. Page 391 Warrant of appraisement on the estate of CHARLES ROPER addressed to JEREMIAH ROBERTS, WILLIAM PUSSEL, ZACCAOUS PUSSELL, JONATHAN LIMBACKER appraisers 10-27-1801. Sworn by MATT. MARTIN j>p> 11-2-1801. Page 392 Inventory of the estate of CHARLES ROPER as shown by SARAH ROPER admx. 11-2-1801. valued at $226.87-1/2. Appraisers signed their names PURSELL. Recorded 11-26-1801." "wILLS rECORD bK 1800-Charles Roper" (Census20, Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:32:28 EDT) * * * As far as I can tell, no one has bothered to follow up to obtain a full transcription of the underlying probate records, other than to SPECULATE that the Sarah ROPER shown within this record might be the Sarah ROPER who later married Drury ADAMS. * The identity of this Charles ROPER is UNCLEAR. Charles ROPER (b 19 Apr 1758), son of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN, is KNOWN to have married Elizabeth BUTLER and the identity of their children are also KNOWN: Nancy ROPER (b 06 Apr 1777) m Benjamin MOORE on 22 Dec 1796 Elizabeth ROPER m Banister SHCKLEFORD Martha ROPER m Richard LEDBETTER Joseph ROPER m Miss WHITEHEAD Dolly ROPER m Louis MEREDITH Goodwin ROPER, died in youth It seems plausible and even likely that ANY of Charles ROPER' and Ann GOODWYN's other sons might have named a child after Charles ROPER. However there is very scant evidence as to the identity of the other grandchildren of Charles ROPER's sons because no one has bothered to check and post the Dinwiddie and Brunswick Personal Property Tax records, even after all these years. * * * This might have been a son of David ROPER (b 29 Jun 1742 - Dinwiddie, VA) who predeceased his father. It seems to me to be singularly plausible that this Charles ROPER might be the father of Sarah Roper ADAMS' children, Benjamin ROPER and Mary ROPER. This is admittedly a very speculative ascription. Someone with an interest in this family needs to obtain, transcribe and post the COMPLETE probate information. The Brunswick Personal Property Tax records also need to be carefully checked. * The Benjamin ROPER identified as a son of Sarah Roper ADAMS seems to be the Benjamin ROPER who first seems to appear in the 1830 Census enumeration for Edgefield at age 30 to 39 (b abt 1791-1800): Benjamin ROPER: 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 -- 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 [Edgefield 1830] This seems to be the Benjamin ROPER who died leaving a Will in November 1841 rather that the elder Benjamin ROPER, of Edgefield, who is shown to have been Benjamin ROPER (b abt 1767, d 23 Oct 1845 - Edgefield, SC). Mary ROPER has been shown to have married Lewis GLANTON. These will be further discussed along with the primary records which help to support the ascriptions. * That Sarah Roper ADAMS, wife of Drury ADAMS was still in her childbearing years while married to Drury is suggestive that she was an younger rather than older wife. That this Sarah ROPER was also the mother of only two identified ROPER children also seems consistent with the possibility that Sarah and her husband were only recently married and that this was a younger rather than an older couple. We need to carefully examine the Census records for Drury ADAMS and his family, as well as other records pertaining to Benjamin ROPER and Mary Roper GLANTON. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: waroper Surnames: Roper, Taylor, Boswell, Glover, Mealing, Whatlley, Lang, Quarles, Traylor, Holloway, Linbacker, Lenbacker, Lembacker Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.roper/1859.4/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Billie JONES posted abstract to two early ROPER Edgefield Deeds on March 31, 2002, crediting Pam STONE for the discovery of this information: "These were posted on Source: TRAYLOR-L@rootsweb.com From: "pamstone" [See original Archived post for e-mail address] They were forwarded to me because of the keywords Edgefield and SC. Thought I would sent to Edgefield list. These names are all old Edgefield names, and in northern Aiken Co., North Augusta to be exact where my mother and I both grew up, the most beautiful old home in the area was the Mealing home, right in the heart of North Augusta. I am interested in info. on the Roper and Holloway families. Billie Jones Camden, SC [See original Archived post for e-mail address] Edgefield County, South Carolina Records Bk.23, p. 149. 1 Jan 1803. Thomas TAYLOR (?) and Peggy, his wife, to William Roper for 34 lb Sterling 75 a. -- line running north down Spring Branch to Dry Creek to Wm. Glover's line to David Boswell's line, John Pursely's line, Henry MEALING's line. Wit: Samuel Roper, Joel Roper (X) Roper, Nancy Roper. Proved 14 June 1801 by Samuel Roper --- Bk. 23 p. 149. 29 Jan. 1805. David Glover to Sary Roper for $200, 66 3/4 a. on Dry Creek including plantation and buildings where Shirley Whatley now lives, being part of land formerly held by Col. Eve...ugh (Evenough?), bounded north by Robert Lang. SW by Thomas TRAYLOR and Lewis Holloway, by.... Shirley, Senr...David Glover's land. Wit: Samuel Quarles, Jonathan (X) Lenbacker. Patsey Glover signs dower rights 23 Mar. 1805. Proved 23 Mar. 1805 by Jonathan Lembacker." "Deeds" (Lee and Billie Jones, Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:18:08 -0500) * * * * * It is probably important to note that these seem to have been found by researchers looking for deeds for other families. I have NOT seen indications that the Edgefield, SC, deeds have been thoroughly studied. * * * It should perhaps be noted that the deed from Thomas and Peggy TAYLOR to William ROPER is consistent with the possibility that this William ROPER had only just arrived in Edgefield, SC, the year that he seems to have made his Will and possibly died. The appearance of the names Samuel ROPER, Joel ROPER and Nancy ROPER on the deed are consistent at a minimum with physical proximity in Edgefield at the date of execution of the deed and suggestive of a close family connection. Joel and Nancy are names expressly shown to be children of William ROPER in William ROPER's Will dated June 7, 1803. Note that the date of William ROPER's Will is BETWEEN the date of execution of the deed and its recording. It appears that William ROPER may have neglected to timely record his deed and that it may have been recorded after he had fallen ill or realized that his health was failing. * The second deed is consistent with the possibility that William ROPER's widow Sarah purchased another property in 1805 after William ROPER's death. * * * It seems to me that someone with a keen interest in this family needs to obtain the original images of ALL of the early ROPER deeds, including these two, post transcriptions and then FOLLOW the land to see which parcels ended up in whose hands. This can be a very valuable means of further verifying and elaborating on the information appearing in probate records. * * * Also, the Personal Property Tax records for Brunswick, Virginia ANNUALLY need to be inspected to see WHEN various Brunswick County ROPERs migrated out of the county. I have been encouraging descendants of Charles ROPER and Ann GOODWYN to do this for years, but no one dares to look at this data, as it will pretty much PROVE that most of the Colonial ROPER lineages purporting connection to New Kent are actually fraudulent! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. <br>