At 04:00 PM 8/22/2007, you wrote: >As you will no doubt appreciate, using frames makes the navigation system is >much more friendly to the user. >In fact I have been revising my site to include more frames and even some >frames within frames. >To achieve the same result without frames means much duplication of >navigation links with all the attendant editing problems when >changes and additions >are made. So you can see why I'm reluctant to abandon frames. No it does not. Rather than use frames you use one file that is then included in all the other pages. When you want to change the navigation, you change one file. This site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ildewitt/id80.htm uses a sitewide navigation menu, a footer and a top menu that are all includes. They are inserted on each page of this large site and once uploaded appear on every single page. When they need to be edited, I edit the one page and it is reflected on every single page. The top menu http://www.rootsweb.com/~ildewitt/_includes/top-menu.txt The left side navigation http://www.rootsweb.com/~ildewitt/_includes/left-nav.txt The footer _includes/footer.txt You can't get any easier than that. Anything that is included on more than a few pages can be an include. How you do it depends on what program you use. pat