Pat, Regarding your following comment: "There are still a lot of webpage designers using frontage and its successor Expression Web. The difference in their code is they have taken the time to learn the program and which features cause problems. FrontPage as well as any WYSIWYG program is only as good as the person using it. The same is true of handwriting your html code. If you do not know what you are doing and have a thorough understanding of coding you can create code that is just as bad with Notepad as you can with FP or ANY program. I have used FP and EW for many years now and I will stack the "clean code" against any written in Notepad." Gee, that's a little tough. This is a volunteer position and I do have other things to do. Sorry - I'm doing the best I can. Kathy ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:48:57 +0000 > > >I agree with Pat that themes and such (which are coded in a way that is > >distinctly FrontPage), should be avoided when working on RootsWeb servers. > >This is because, to have such things display properly on every browser, the > >server (RootsWeb) must have something called "FrontPage Extensions" > >installed on it. > > FrontPage Server extensions are NOT required for the themes and > shared borders to work on Rootsweb as evidenced by the number of > people still using them. The do however seem to cause problems when > you start "messing around" with them. Same is true in using the > navigation features. THAT is the reason I recommend ditching them as > there are much better ways of accomplishing the same thing. Use > either frontpage includes or server side includes and design your own > style sheet and layout based on the theme you have chosen. > > > FP Extensions were another way for Microsoft to make a > >bunch of money by charging server providers tons of money to get their hands > >on code that tells the server how to interpret the "non standard" coding > >used by FrontPage. At one time, a lot of web page designers were using > >FrontPage to design their pages because it required no knowledge of HTML. > >Unfortunately, as many career web designers will tell you, Front Page adds > >tons of garbage code that only FrontPage understands. How do I know this? > >I used FrontPage for many years to design and build my own websites. I have > >since gone over to Adobe GoLive and am still have a devil of a time removing > >all of the garbage code from FrontPage that causes all manner of problems > >with my website. > > ====================== > > There are still a lot of webpage designers using frontage and its > successor Expression Web. The difference in their code is they have > taken the time to learn the program and which features cause > problems. FrontPage as well as any WYSIWYG program is only as good as > the person using it. The same is true of handwriting your html code. > If you do not know what you are doing and have a thorough > understanding of coding you can create code that is just as bad with > Notepad as you can with FP or ANY program. I have used FP and EW for > many years now and I will stack the "clean code" against any written > in Notepad. > ======================= > > >Regarding my last post, it is standard practice to have one, single folder > >for all images on a website. It makes it easier for you to remember where > >things are and eliminates a lot of broken links when uploading to the > >server. Pat may, however, be correct about themes and borders needing to > >have images stored in places other than an "images" folder though, since > >even FrontPage recommends the use of one folder, that seems unlikely. > ===================== > Good practice but maybe not standard practice. Using FrontPage > themes, the images go where FP puts them NOT where you want them. FP > creates a folder called borders where your borders reside and the > derived folder holds the other stuff when using themes. The successor > of Fp called Expression Web EW for short does not have themes > included. It writes standard compliant code and makes extensive use > of style sheets. It has an excellent css editor as part of the program. > >========== > >Finally, you wanted to get a better feel for what, exactly, FrontPage does. > >In short, it takes your "wysiwig" (what you see is what you get) design and > >formatting instructions and "translates" them into HTML based on what it > >thinks you mean. > ============== > The best way to see exactly how fp is writing your code based on what > you tell it to do in WYSIWYG mode is to work in split view. One the > top you see your code as it is written and on the bottom you see your > site in WYSIWYG view. > > =================== > > > Have you ever used a language translator online? If so, > >it's the same kind of process. FP looks at what you just told it to do and > >"interprets" that information into HTML to the best of it's ability. The > >downside is much the same as you see in online language translators: things > >are translated without regard for what surrounds them, so the result may > >turn out to be the HTML equivalent of "pigeon English". Front Page doesn't > >always realize that what you are doing at this moment is intended to replace > >what you had previously done or what was already there. As a result, it > >frequently adds the new coding without removing the old, obsolete coding. > >This results in lots of conflicts and extraneous information that can easily > >confuse a server. The only way to find all of these conflicts is, in many > >case, to review the source code line by line. This is all well and good if > >you understand HTML but is like reading and trying to find syntax errors in > >Greek when you don't know the language. This is why so many people have > >moved away from FrontPage, causing it to be discontinued by Microsoft. > > Unless you take the time to learn some basic html coding and css you > will never be able to fix the problems caused by ANY html editor be > it frontpage, Dreamweaver, Golive or notepad. > > Pat > > > > > ---------- > Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 02:32 PM 11/30/2007, Judy Florian wrote: >And, I wanted to say--- Don't get frustrated. You WILL learn this webmaking >stuff and it WILL get easier. As I say that, I'm learning CSS now and >pulling my hair OUT. Couldn't we both just throw up our hands (LOL) and go >get a cup of tea and forget this junk? LOLOL But think how good it feels when the light bulb goes off and you finally "get it!" CSS is not learned over night but it is well worth the effort you put into it. pat who is still learning css ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

Hi Kathy, I wanted to mention that it will help if you could <snip> (delete) any parts of other people's posts when you make a reply. Just highlight all the words you want to get rid of and hit delete, and just keep the part you are replying "to." That will help other subscribers; we won't have to re-scroll through a Digest of posts we already read (especially on gmail where replies are "stacked" one after another -- I might have to "scroll" 10 pages to get to a NEW reply). Deleting <snipping> parts of previous replies or the rest of the Digest also saves server space and handling of email. Usually, this list "bounces" messages when they get way too long. But lately, the longggg posts of repeated-whole digests are getting through. And, I wanted to say--- Don't get frustrated. You WILL learn this webmaking stuff and it WILL get easier. As I say that, I'm learning CSS now and pulling my hair OUT. Couldn't we both just throw up our hands (LOL) and go get a cup of tea and forget this junk? LOLOL Judy On 11/30/07, Kathy Summers <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm sorry for the double posts. Mediacom sometimes does that and right > now > I'm posting from their website, not Outlook. Please ignore the doubles. > Kathy

Sheila, Thank you for the detailed infomation. Are you happy with Adobe GoLive? and were you able to use any of the pages from FP when you started using GoLive? If I could at least copy and paste the info from the HCT site into another program it would help - there's a lot of info to re-enter. I used all the suggestions, including wiping the server clean (I thought)and then uploaded from FP. For some reason FileZilla will not upload, I have to do it in FP. FP says the files are still there. To make a long story short, the site is even worse that 2 days ago. However, when I look at the file system in FP I have noticed that most of the folders holding the images and overlays are BELOW the page files, which means that when the page is uploaded the files it is supposed to look for are not uploaded yet. Haven't figured out how to move them yet. I certainly could have totally redone the page by now but that's water under the bridge. I updated my other site last night and it worked fine, but again it is a one page with one link file. I am not opposed to buying a new program if I can find one that is easy to use. I have so much else going on that I really don't have time to take a class in HTML - which is probably the answer. Strange that this should just happen. I had not added anything but a small bit of information on one page and changed a hyperlink and when I did the upload it just changed all the graphics. After that everything I did just made it worse. I can't even find a way to "Save Web As" in FP - it only saves one page "as" or saves the whole web under the existing name. Thought if I could save what I am seeing in FP and on the "preview in browser" (which are both fine) then it might upload - who knows! Let me know about GoLive. -- Kathy Summers ---------------------- Original Message: --------------------- From: "Sheila Hanna" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:50:17 +0000 > Kathy, > > I agree with Pat that themes and such (which are coded in a way that is > distinctly FrontPage), should be avoided when working on RootsWeb servers. > This is because, to have such things display properly on every browser, the > server (RootsWeb) must have something called "FrontPage Extensions" > installed on it. FP Extensions were another way for Microsoft to make a > bunch of money by charging server providers tons of money to get their hands > on code that tells the server how to interpret the "non standard" coding > used by FrontPage. At one time, a lot of web page designers were using > FrontPage to design their pages because it required no knowledge of HTML. > Unfortunately, as many career web designers will tell you, Front Page adds > tons of garbage code that only FrontPage understands. How do I know this? > I used FrontPage for many years to design and build my own websites. I have > since gone over to Adobe GoLive and am still have a devil of a time removing > all of the garbage code from FrontPage that causes all manner of problems > with my website. > > Regarding my last post, it is standard practice to have one, single folder > for all images on a website. It makes it easier for you to remember where > things are and eliminates a lot of broken links when uploading to the > server. Pat may, however, be correct about themes and borders needing to > have images stored in places other than an "images" folder though, since > even FrontPage recommends the use of one folder, that seems unlikely. > > You asked what "F5" does. It is a forced refresh that ensures that you are > seeing the most current info on any given server. Essentially, it tells a > website or page to check the server again and update it's display to show > the most correct info. Any time you upload files to the RootsWeb server, I > highly recommend that you "F5" to make certain the server notices that it > has received new pages or new versions of pages. If you are viewing your > website in a web browser, such as Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox, and > have recently uploaded new files to the website, "F5" will make sure that > you are viewing what's on the server in real time rather than merely looking > at a page that is cached in your computer (which happens more often than you > may think when you view the same site a lot). > > Finally, you wanted to get a better feel for what, exactly, FrontPage does. > In short, it takes your "wysiwig" (what you see is what you get) design and > formatting instructions and "translates" them into HTML based on what it > thinks you mean. Have you ever used a language translator online? If so, > it's the same kind of process. FP looks at what you just told it to do and > "interprets" that information into HTML to the best of it's ability. The > downside is much the same as you see in online language translators: things > are translated without regard for what surrounds them, so the result may > turn out to be the HTML equivalent of "pigeon English". Front Page doesn't > always realize that what you are doing at this moment is intended to replace > what you had previously done or what was already there. As a result, it > frequently adds the new coding without removing the old, obsolete coding. > This results in lots of conflicts and extraneous information that can easily > confuse a server. The only way to find all of these conflicts is, in many > case, to review the source code line by line. This is all well and good if > you understand HTML but is like reading and trying to find syntax errors in > Greek when you don't know the language. This is why so many people have > moved away from FrontPage, causing it to be discontinued by Microsoft. > > I hope that gives you a better understanding of what's going on with your > code and why you're having so many problems fixing it. Essentially, every > time you change a page to try to fix the problem, you may be making it worse > by adding more Greek to an already bad interpretation. Patience and > attention to detail are your best weapons right now. Without those, Pat is > correct that the best thing to do is start from scratch. > > Sheila > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:47 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 149 > > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: CSS, IE and table (Judy Florian) > 2. Re: ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 (Sheila Hanna) > 3. Re: upload from Front Page (Patricia Geary) > 4. Re upload from Front Page (Mary Ellis) > 5. Re: upload from Front Page (Kathy Summers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:03:28 -0500 > From: "Judy Florian" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] CSS, IE and table > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > You shouldn't need a css in every folder. > > Let's assume you have ONE css file, assumed to have a name of patrice.css > > Let's say you main web folder under My Documents / My Webs is called > flgenweb. Under that folder, you have your index.htm/l "freely" or > "loosely" under the flgenweb folder.... and within the flgenweb folder you > have 10 county folders, 1 map folder, 6 surname folders and 1 whatever > folder. > > If you want your external css to be used on all pages, simply leave it > "loose" under the flgenweb folder. Then "call" for it with the link to each > page in each folder. The pathway of the link will change, depending on how > far away the sub-folder is from the main folder, flgenweb. > > If you want a special external css to apply to one "section", say one > sub-folder with many subfolders under that, you could put it in "loosely" > under the main sub-folder for that section, and again, "call" for it. > > Do you have one file you've called "template.htm/l"? It makes it SOOO much > easier. You can temporary stick into each folder a "template.htm/l" then > make sure every link works. When you need a "new" page, make a copy of the > template.htm/l and rename the new file. Add in new title, description, > keywords, on-page title, and content--and link it to your site map and main > page... and there you've got a whole new addition. If you don't have a > template, make one. You'll save yourself so many headaches. > > Judy > > > On 11/29/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: > > >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > > > Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a > > different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to > > work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one > > folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I > > reference the correct css file in the website. > > > > It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every > > folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that > > only has pages without directories to organize them. > > > > As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. > > > > [email protected], > > Patrice > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:20:18 -0500 > From: "Sheila Hanna" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Kathy, > > Regarding the missing images on your home page: Your pages are looking for > images in ~nchender/_themes/copy-of-network-blitz3/, ~nchender/photogallery > and your "Resources" button does appear on mouse-over though it doesn't > appear the rest of the time which indicates that you used mouse-over coding. > > I know this probably sounds very elementary, but bear with me because, in my > experience, the simplest answers are usually the right ones. My suggestion > is to take a look in your rootsweb files - not on your computer but in the > actual files on the RootsWeb server - via FTP and confirm the locations of > the images that are failing to display, then compare that info to the links > in your pages. My guess is that you do not have a folder on the server > called "copy-of-network-blitz3", so the server has no way of locating the > images that your pages need. Once you've found the true locations of all of > the "missing" pictures on the server, change the links in your pages to > match the locations of the image files on the server and you should be all > set. Once you've done this, clean up your FrontPage web folder (from within > FrontPage) to get rid of all the unnecessary folders (like the network blitz > folder) to minimize the chances of future linking errors. > > Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly > again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your > pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all > future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks > to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb > server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the > server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems > with image location. > > Sheila > > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:20:07 -0500 > From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: > >have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of > >FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There > >were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I > >deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't > >know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in getting > >the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the hyperlinks > >and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up and > >operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to > begin > >with. > > > >Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know > >they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My > >derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the > page. > >Take a look and give me your opinion. > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a > great > >help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it > that > >way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:36 -0500 > From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Pat, > > I looked at the link. How did you do that? Honestly, I don't have time to > learn how to do anything else. I have worked on this for a week. I could > have built an entire new page by now. > > You suggested the drag and drop before but there are no files to drag. > That's what I can't understand. I'll go back to FileZilla and see if I can > do it there. > > Let me know if anyone else has any ideas. At least I have part of it > operating again. > > Kathy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > > > > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: > >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of > >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There > >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I > >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't > >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in > >>getting > >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the > >>hyperlinks > >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up > >>and > >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to > >>begin > >>with. > >> > >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know > >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My > >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the > >>page. > >>Take a look and give me your opinion. > >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a > >>great > >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it > >>that > >>way but I don't. > > =========== > > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > > see the difference. > > > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > > and shared borders. > > > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > Pat Geary > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:14:49 -0500 > From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Pat, > None of this makes a bit of sense to me. I did the drag and drop you > suggested and some more of the graphics came up but not all. Now if you > hold the mouse over the name the graphic appears (except for a picture in > the middle) - go figure. Maybe tomorrow - lol. > > Kathy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > > > > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: > >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of > >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There > >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I > >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't > >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in > >>getting > >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the > >>hyperlinks > >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up > >>and > >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to > >>begin > >>with. > >> > >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know > >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My > >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the > >>page. > >>Take a look and give me your opinion. > >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a > >>great > >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it > >>that > >>way but I don't. > > =========== > > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > > see the difference. > > > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > > and shared borders. > > > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > Pat Geary > > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:49:34 -0500 > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] CSS, IE and table > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]n.cfl.rr.c > om> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: > >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > > > >I am having a problem with a CSS layout for > > >http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders > > >beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the > > >content header and the table. > > > >I can tell you what is causing it, but not why it has that effect in > >IE. In line 83, delete the width specification, and the table looks > >fine in IE. > > Thanks Dale, that fixed it. > > Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a > different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to > work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one > folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I > reference the correct css file in the website. > > It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every > folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that > only has pages without directories to organize them. > > As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. > > [email protected], > Patrice > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the ROOTSWEB-HELP list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the ROOTSWEB-HELP mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 > ********************************************* > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:52:08 -0500 > From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: > >Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly > >again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your > >pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all > >future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks > >to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb > >server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the > >server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems > >with image location. > ============ > If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations > bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in > certain folders. > > Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? > How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It > took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to > create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be > copied and pasted into the content area. > > If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but > forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh > but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using > these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. > > pat > > > ---------- > Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:05:02 -0500 > From: Mary Ellis <[email protected]> > Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Re upload from Front Page > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > The Picture in the middle shows to be in the image folder. And that > brings up a question I have. Why use the derived folder to put images > in, isn't it easier if all images were in the image folder, then this > kind of thing would be easier to manage. > I don't know a thing about css files, maybe they require the derived folder? > > Mary Ellis > > > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > > > Pat > > > Mary Ellis > County Coordinator Alamance NCGenWeb > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~mwellis/ > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncalaman/ > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncacgs/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:46:12 -0500 > From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > To all who are trying to help me with this. I'm getting there, slowly but I > also need to know how this program operates internally as I am maintaining > another website with it but it is a simple one page with picture gallery. I > will print all the suggestions and work through them. It appears that there > are folders on the server that have no business being there so the clean up > is probably necessary but first I'm going to try to save this web under > another name and work from there. > > Pat, thanks for the suggestion but I don't know what you are coping and > pasting to. And what does "F5" do and am I to use that in FP or FileZilla, > which has been very helpful in allowing me to see what a mess this page is > in. I had already deleted all the overlays that are not being used so now I > just need to clean out the other files - shouldn't take too long. I also > need to know where the "mouse over" function is. I know I've seen it. I > really prefer the look with the theme and haven't had a problem before - > probably just my lack of knowledge. If I knew html I could probably fix a > lot of this stuff easier. > > Thanks to all and I'll let you know. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:52 AM > Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > > > > At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: > >>Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying > >>properly > >>again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your > >>pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all > >>future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate > >>hyperlinks > >>to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb > >>server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the > >>server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems > >>with image location. > > ============ > > If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations > > bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in > > certain folders. > > > > Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? > > How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It > > took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to > > create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be > > copied and pasted into the content area. > > > > If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but > > forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh > > but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using > > these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. > > > > pat > > > > > > ---------- > > Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > > We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > > > Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials > > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the ROOTSWEB-HELP list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the ROOTSWEB-HELP mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 149 > ********************************************* > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 09:58 AM 11/30/2007, Kathy Summers wrote: >Gee, that's a little tough. This is a volunteer position and I do have other >things to do. Sorry - I'm doing the best I can. This is in no way aimed at you or any other volunteer. It is a simple statement to those who seem to blame frontpage for writing bad code. FrontPage does what you tell it to do. Each version is a little bit better than the last one BUT you do need to understand what html code is and how to use it or any program in order to fix things when they go wrong. If you took it as a statement just for you I am sorry. It was a response to Sheila's comments about FrontPage. I would imagine all of us on this list are volunteers and do the best we can. Again my apologies if you took offense. It was not meant that way. pat

>I agree with Pat that themes and such (which are coded in a way that is >distinctly FrontPage), should be avoided when working on RootsWeb servers. >This is because, to have such things display properly on every browser, the >server (RootsWeb) must have something called "FrontPage Extensions" >installed on it. FrontPage Server extensions are NOT required for the themes and shared borders to work on Rootsweb as evidenced by the number of people still using them. The do however seem to cause problems when you start "messing around" with them. Same is true in using the navigation features. THAT is the reason I recommend ditching them as there are much better ways of accomplishing the same thing. Use either frontpage includes or server side includes and design your own style sheet and layout based on the theme you have chosen. > FP Extensions were another way for Microsoft to make a >bunch of money by charging server providers tons of money to get their hands >on code that tells the server how to interpret the "non standard" coding >used by FrontPage. At one time, a lot of web page designers were using >FrontPage to design their pages because it required no knowledge of HTML. >Unfortunately, as many career web designers will tell you, Front Page adds >tons of garbage code that only FrontPage understands. How do I know this? >I used FrontPage for many years to design and build my own websites. I have >since gone over to Adobe GoLive and am still have a devil of a time removing >all of the garbage code from FrontPage that causes all manner of problems >with my website. ====================== There are still a lot of webpage designers using frontage and its successor Expression Web. The difference in their code is they have taken the time to learn the program and which features cause problems. FrontPage as well as any WYSIWYG program is only as good as the person using it. The same is true of handwriting your html code. If you do not know what you are doing and have a thorough understanding of coding you can create code that is just as bad with Notepad as you can with FP or ANY program. I have used FP and EW for many years now and I will stack the "clean code" against any written in Notepad. ======================= >Regarding my last post, it is standard practice to have one, single folder >for all images on a website. It makes it easier for you to remember where >things are and eliminates a lot of broken links when uploading to the >server. Pat may, however, be correct about themes and borders needing to >have images stored in places other than an "images" folder though, since >even FrontPage recommends the use of one folder, that seems unlikely. ===================== Good practice but maybe not standard practice. Using FrontPage themes, the images go where FP puts them NOT where you want them. FP creates a folder called borders where your borders reside and the derived folder holds the other stuff when using themes. The successor of Fp called Expression Web EW for short does not have themes included. It writes standard compliant code and makes extensive use of style sheets. It has an excellent css editor as part of the program. >========== >Finally, you wanted to get a better feel for what, exactly, FrontPage does. >In short, it takes your "wysiwig" (what you see is what you get) design and >formatting instructions and "translates" them into HTML based on what it >thinks you mean. ============== The best way to see exactly how fp is writing your code based on what you tell it to do in WYSIWYG mode is to work in split view. One the top you see your code as it is written and on the bottom you see your site in WYSIWYG view. =================== > Have you ever used a language translator online? If so, >it's the same kind of process. FP looks at what you just told it to do and >"interprets" that information into HTML to the best of it's ability. The >downside is much the same as you see in online language translators: things >are translated without regard for what surrounds them, so the result may >turn out to be the HTML equivalent of "pigeon English". Front Page doesn't >always realize that what you are doing at this moment is intended to replace >what you had previously done or what was already there. As a result, it >frequently adds the new coding without removing the old, obsolete coding. >This results in lots of conflicts and extraneous information that can easily >confuse a server. The only way to find all of these conflicts is, in many >case, to review the source code line by line. This is all well and good if >you understand HTML but is like reading and trying to find syntax errors in >Greek when you don't know the language. This is why so many people have >moved away from FrontPage, causing it to be discontinued by Microsoft. Unless you take the time to learn some basic html coding and css you will never be able to fix the problems caused by ANY html editor be it frontpage, Dreamweaver, Golive or notepad. Pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

Kathy, I agree with Pat that themes and such (which are coded in a way that is distinctly FrontPage), should be avoided when working on RootsWeb servers. This is because, to have such things display properly on every browser, the server (RootsWeb) must have something called "FrontPage Extensions" installed on it. FP Extensions were another way for Microsoft to make a bunch of money by charging server providers tons of money to get their hands on code that tells the server how to interpret the "non standard" coding used by FrontPage. At one time, a lot of web page designers were using FrontPage to design their pages because it required no knowledge of HTML. Unfortunately, as many career web designers will tell you, Front Page adds tons of garbage code that only FrontPage understands. How do I know this? I used FrontPage for many years to design and build my own websites. I have since gone over to Adobe GoLive and am still have a devil of a time removing all of the garbage code from FrontPage that causes all manner of problems with my website. Regarding my last post, it is standard practice to have one, single folder for all images on a website. It makes it easier for you to remember where things are and eliminates a lot of broken links when uploading to the server. Pat may, however, be correct about themes and borders needing to have images stored in places other than an "images" folder though, since even FrontPage recommends the use of one folder, that seems unlikely. You asked what "F5" does. It is a forced refresh that ensures that you are seeing the most current info on any given server. Essentially, it tells a website or page to check the server again and update it's display to show the most correct info. Any time you upload files to the RootsWeb server, I highly recommend that you "F5" to make certain the server notices that it has received new pages or new versions of pages. If you are viewing your website in a web browser, such as Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox, and have recently uploaded new files to the website, "F5" will make sure that you are viewing what's on the server in real time rather than merely looking at a page that is cached in your computer (which happens more often than you may think when you view the same site a lot). Finally, you wanted to get a better feel for what, exactly, FrontPage does. In short, it takes your "wysiwig" (what you see is what you get) design and formatting instructions and "translates" them into HTML based on what it thinks you mean. Have you ever used a language translator online? If so, it's the same kind of process. FP looks at what you just told it to do and "interprets" that information into HTML to the best of it's ability. The downside is much the same as you see in online language translators: things are translated without regard for what surrounds them, so the result may turn out to be the HTML equivalent of "pigeon English". Front Page doesn't always realize that what you are doing at this moment is intended to replace what you had previously done or what was already there. As a result, it frequently adds the new coding without removing the old, obsolete coding. This results in lots of conflicts and extraneous information that can easily confuse a server. The only way to find all of these conflicts is, in many case, to review the source code line by line. This is all well and good if you understand HTML but is like reading and trying to find syntax errors in Greek when you don't know the language. This is why so many people have moved away from FrontPage, causing it to be discontinued by Microsoft. I hope that gives you a better understanding of what's going on with your code and why you're having so many problems fixing it. Essentially, every time you change a page to try to fix the problem, you may be making it worse by adding more Greek to an already bad interpretation. Patience and attention to detail are your best weapons right now. Without those, Pat is correct that the best thing to do is start from scratch. Sheila -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 149 Today's Topics: 1. Re: CSS, IE and table (Judy Florian) 2. Re: ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 (Sheila Hanna) 3. Re: upload from Front Page (Patricia Geary) 4. Re upload from Front Page (Mary Ellis) 5. Re: upload from Front Page (Kathy Summers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:03:28 -0500 From: "Judy Florian" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] CSS, IE and table To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You shouldn't need a css in every folder. Let's assume you have ONE css file, assumed to have a name of patrice.css Let's say you main web folder under My Documents / My Webs is called flgenweb. Under that folder, you have your index.htm/l "freely" or "loosely" under the flgenweb folder.... and within the flgenweb folder you have 10 county folders, 1 map folder, 6 surname folders and 1 whatever folder. If you want your external css to be used on all pages, simply leave it "loose" under the flgenweb folder. Then "call" for it with the link to each page in each folder. The pathway of the link will change, depending on how far away the sub-folder is from the main folder, flgenweb. If you want a special external css to apply to one "section", say one sub-folder with many subfolders under that, you could put it in "loosely" under the main sub-folder for that section, and again, "call" for it. Do you have one file you've called "template.htm/l"? It makes it SOOO much easier. You can temporary stick into each folder a "template.htm/l" then make sure every link works. When you need a "new" page, make a copy of the template.htm/l and rename the new file. Add in new title, description, keywords, on-page title, and content--and link it to your site map and main page... and there you've got a whole new addition. If you don't have a template, make one. You'll save yourself so many headaches. Judy On 11/29/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: > >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a > different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to > work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one > folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I > reference the correct css file in the website. > > It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every > folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that > only has pages without directories to organize them. > > As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. > > [email protected], > Patrice > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:20:18 -0500 From: "Sheila Hanna" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kathy, Regarding the missing images on your home page: Your pages are looking for images in ~nchender/_themes/copy-of-network-blitz3/, ~nchender/photogallery and your "Resources" button does appear on mouse-over though it doesn't appear the rest of the time which indicates that you used mouse-over coding. I know this probably sounds very elementary, but bear with me because, in my experience, the simplest answers are usually the right ones. My suggestion is to take a look in your rootsweb files - not on your computer but in the actual files on the RootsWeb server - via FTP and confirm the locations of the images that are failing to display, then compare that info to the links in your pages. My guess is that you do not have a folder on the server called "copy-of-network-blitz3", so the server has no way of locating the images that your pages need. Once you've found the true locations of all of the "missing" pictures on the server, change the links in your pages to match the locations of the image files on the server and you should be all set. Once you've done this, clean up your FrontPage web folder (from within FrontPage) to get rid of all the unnecessary folders (like the network blitz folder) to minimize the chances of future linking errors. Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems with image location. Sheila Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:20:07 -0500 From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in getting >the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the hyperlinks >and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up and >operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to begin >with. > >Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the page. >Take a look and give me your opinion. >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a great >help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it that >way but I don't. =========== Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own styling and moving from shared borders to includes. If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will see the difference. You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes and shared borders. If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. Pat Pat Geary Microsoft MVP - FrontPage http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:36 -0500 From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pat, I looked at the link. How did you do that? Honestly, I don't have time to learn how to do anything else. I have worked on this for a week. I could have built an entire new page by now. You suggested the drag and drop before but there are no files to drag. That's what I can't understand. I'll go back to FileZilla and see if I can do it there. Let me know if anyone else has any ideas. At least I have part of it operating again. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:14:49 -0500 From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pat, None of this makes a bit of sense to me. I did the drag and drop you suggested and some more of the graphics came up but not all. Now if you hold the mouse over the name the graphic appears (except for a picture in the middle) - go figure. Maybe tomorrow - lol. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:49:34 -0500 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] CSS, IE and table To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]n.cfl.rr.c om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > >I am having a problem with a CSS layout for > >http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders > >beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the > >content header and the table. > >I can tell you what is causing it, but not why it has that effect in >IE. In line 83, delete the width specification, and the table looks >fine in IE. Thanks Dale, that fixed it. Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I reference the correct css file in the website. It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that only has pages without directories to organize them. As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. [email protected], Patrice ------------------------------ To contact the ROOTSWEB-HELP list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the ROOTSWEB-HELP mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 ********************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:52:08 -0500 From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly >again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your >pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all >future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks >to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb >server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the >server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems >with image location. ============ If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in certain folders. Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be copied and pasted into the content area. If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:05:02 -0500 From: Mary Ellis <[email protected]> Subject: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] Re upload from Front Page To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The Picture in the middle shows to be in the image folder. And that brings up a question I have. Why use the derived folder to put images in, isn't it easier if all images were in the image folder, then this kind of thing would be easier to manage. I don't know a thing about css files, maybe they require the derived folder? Mary Ellis > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > Mary Ellis County Coordinator Alamance NCGenWeb http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~mwellis/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncalaman/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncacgs/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:46:12 -0500 From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original To all who are trying to help me with this. I'm getting there, slowly but I also need to know how this program operates internally as I am maintaining another website with it but it is a simple one page with picture gallery. I will print all the suggestions and work through them. It appears that there are folders on the server that have no business being there so the clean up is probably necessary but first I'm going to try to save this web under another name and work from there. Pat, thanks for the suggestion but I don't know what you are coping and pasting to. And what does "F5" do and am I to use that in FP or FileZilla, which has been very helpful in allowing me to see what a mess this page is in. I had already deleted all the overlays that are not being used so now I just need to clean out the other files - shouldn't take too long. I also need to know where the "mouse over" function is. I know I've seen it. I really prefer the look with the theme and haven't had a problem before - probably just my lack of knowledge. If I knew html I could probably fix a lot of this stuff easier. Thanks to all and I'll let you know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >>Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying >>properly >>again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your >>pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all >>future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate >>hyperlinks >>to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb >>server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the >>server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems >>with image location. > ============ > If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations > bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in > certain folders. > > Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? > How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It > took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to > create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be > copied and pasted into the content area. > > If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but > forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh > but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using > these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. > > pat > > > ---------- > Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ To contact the ROOTSWEB-HELP list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the ROOTSWEB-HELP mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 149 *********************************************

Judy, Thank you SO much! This is my first attempt at handwriting my html without a wysiwyg program. I've always used templates in the past and I don't know why I didn't think of it myself. Probably worrying too much about the CSS. <grin> I really appreciate your reply and your advice. [email protected], Patrice At 11/29/2007 11:47 AM, "Judy Florian" <[email protected]> wrote: >You shouldn't need a css in every folder. > >Let's assume you have ONE css file, assumed to have a name of patrice.css > >Let's say you main web folder under My Documents / My Webs is called >flgenweb. Under that folder, you have your index.htm/l "freely" or >"loosely" under the flgenweb folder.... and within the flgenweb folder you >have 10 county folders, 1 map folder, 6 surname folders and 1 whatever >folder. > >If you want your external css to be used on all pages, simply leave it >"loose" under the flgenweb folder. Then "call" for it with the link to each >page in each folder. The pathway of the link will change, depending on how >far away the sub-folder is from the main folder, flgenweb. > >If you want a special external css to apply to one "section", say one >sub-folder with many subfolders under that, you could put it in "loosely" >under the main sub-folder for that section, and again, "call" for it. > >Do you have one file you've called "template.htm/l"? It makes it SOOO much >easier. You can temporary stick into each folder a "template.htm/l" then >make sure every link works. When you need a "new" page, make a copy of the >template.htm/l and rename the new file. Add in new title, description, >keywords, on-page title, and content--and link it to your site map and main >page... and there you've got a whole new addition. If you don't have a >template, make one. You'll save yourself so many headaches. > >Judy

To all who are trying to help me with this. I'm getting there, slowly but I also need to know how this program operates internally as I am maintaining another website with it but it is a simple one page with picture gallery. I will print all the suggestions and work through them. It appears that there are folders on the server that have no business being there so the clean up is probably necessary but first I'm going to try to save this web under another name and work from there. Pat, thanks for the suggestion but I don't know what you are coping and pasting to. And what does "F5" do and am I to use that in FP or FileZilla, which has been very helpful in allowing me to see what a mess this page is in. I had already deleted all the overlays that are not being used so now I just need to clean out the other files - shouldn't take too long. I also need to know where the "mouse over" function is. I know I've seen it. I really prefer the look with the theme and haven't had a problem before - probably just my lack of knowledge. If I knew html I could probably fix a lot of this stuff easier. Thanks to all and I'll let you know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >>Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying >>properly >>again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your >>pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all >>future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate >>hyperlinks >>to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb >>server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the >>server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems >>with image location. > ============ > If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations > bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in > certain folders. > > Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? > How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It > took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to > create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be > copied and pasted into the content area. > > If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but > forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh > but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using > these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. > > pat > > > ---------- > Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > > Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Picture in the middle shows to be in the image folder. And that brings up a question I have. Why use the derived folder to put images in, isn't it easier if all images were in the image folder, then this kind of thing would be easier to manage. I don't know a thing about css files, maybe they require the derived folder? Mary Ellis > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > Mary Ellis County Coordinator Alamance NCGenWeb http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~mwellis/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncalaman/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncacgs/

At 08:20 AM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly >again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your >pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all >future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks >to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb >server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the >server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems >with image location. ============ If she continue to use FP themes, shared borders and the navigations bots, I do not think she can do this. FP expects to find the files in certain folders. Kathy, how many hours have you spent trying to "fix" these problems? How many more hours are you willing to spend cleaning things up. It took me a fairly short time copying and pasting your content to create what I showed you before. The rest of your pages could also be copied and pasted into the content area. If you don't like this layout, start again copying and pasting but forget the bots, shared borders and themes. Don't mean to sound harsh but I have seen the same problems crop up again and again when using these parts of FP. Just my suggestions. Off to clean house. pat ---------- Pat Geary, Microsoft MVP - FrontPage We discuss FrontPage and Expression Web http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ Genealogy Web Design Tips and Tutorials http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ - Blog

Kathy, Regarding the missing images on your home page: Your pages are looking for images in ~nchender/_themes/copy-of-network-blitz3/, ~nchender/photogallery and your "Resources" button does appear on mouse-over though it doesn't appear the rest of the time which indicates that you used mouse-over coding. I know this probably sounds very elementary, but bear with me because, in my experience, the simplest answers are usually the right ones. My suggestion is to take a look in your rootsweb files - not on your computer but in the actual files on the RootsWeb server - via FTP and confirm the locations of the images that are failing to display, then compare that info to the links in your pages. My guess is that you do not have a folder on the server called "copy-of-network-blitz3", so the server has no way of locating the images that your pages need. Once you've found the true locations of all of the "missing" pictures on the server, change the links in your pages to match the locations of the image files on the server and you should be all set. Once you've done this, clean up your FrontPage web folder (from within FrontPage) to get rid of all the unnecessary folders (like the network blitz folder) to minimize the chances of future linking errors. Another suggestion: Once you have all of your pictures displaying properly again, take a few moments someday soon to move all of the images from your pages (from within FrontPage)into one file called "images" and place all future image additions in that folder as well. Then recalculate hyperlinks to make sure the pages know about the change. Then scrape the RootsWenb server clean and re-upload your entire web file and "F5" to update the server view. This simple process should help to avoid any future problems with image location. Sheila Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:20:07 -0500 From: Patricia Geary <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in getting >the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the hyperlinks >and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up and >operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to begin >with. > >Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the page. >Take a look and give me your opinion. >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a great >help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it that >way but I don't. =========== Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own styling and moving from shared borders to includes. If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will see the difference. You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes and shared borders. If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. Pat Pat Geary Microsoft MVP - FrontPage http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:36 -0500 From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pat, I looked at the link. How did you do that? Honestly, I don't have time to learn how to do anything else. I have worked on this for a week. I could have built an entire new page by now. You suggested the drag and drop before but there are no files to drag. That's what I can't understand. I'll go back to FileZilla and see if I can do it there. Let me know if anyone else has any ideas. At least I have part of it operating again. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:14:49 -0500 From: "Kathy Summers" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Pat, None of this makes a bit of sense to me. I did the drag and drop you suggested and some more of the graphics came up but not all. Now if you hold the mouse over the name the graphic appears (except for a picture in the middle) - go figure. Maybe tomorrow - lol. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:49:34 -0500 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] CSS, IE and table To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]n.cfl.rr.c om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > >I am having a problem with a CSS layout for > >http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders > >beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the > >content header and the table. > >I can tell you what is causing it, but not why it has that effect in >IE. In line 83, delete the width specification, and the table looks >fine in IE. Thanks Dale, that fixed it. Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I reference the correct css file in the website. It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that only has pages without directories to organize them. As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. [email protected], Patrice ------------------------------ To contact the ROOTSWEB-HELP list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the ROOTSWEB-HELP mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of ROOTSWEB-HELP Digest, Vol 2, Issue 148 *********************************************

You shouldn't need a css in every folder. Let's assume you have ONE css file, assumed to have a name of patrice.css Let's say you main web folder under My Documents / My Webs is called flgenweb. Under that folder, you have your index.htm/l "freely" or "loosely" under the flgenweb folder.... and within the flgenweb folder you have 10 county folders, 1 map folder, 6 surname folders and 1 whatever folder. If you want your external css to be used on all pages, simply leave it "loose" under the flgenweb folder. Then "call" for it with the link to each page in each folder. The pathway of the link will change, depending on how far away the sub-folder is from the main folder, flgenweb. If you want a special external css to apply to one "section", say one sub-folder with many subfolders under that, you could put it in "loosely" under the main sub-folder for that section, and again, "call" for it. Do you have one file you've called "template.htm/l"? It makes it SOOO much easier. You can temporary stick into each folder a "template.htm/l" then make sure every link works. When you need a "new" page, make a copy of the template.htm/l and rename the new file. Add in new title, description, keywords, on-page title, and content--and link it to your site map and main page... and there you've got a whole new addition. If you don't have a template, make one. You'll save yourself so many headaches. Judy On 11/29/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: > >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a > different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to > work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one > folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I > reference the correct css file in the website. > > It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every > folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that > only has pages without directories to organize them. > > As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. > > [email protected], > Patrice > >

At 11/28/2007 09:39 PM, Dale H. Cook wrote: >At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: > > >I am having a problem with a CSS layout for > >http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders > >beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the > >content header and the table. > >I can tell you what is causing it, but not why it has that effect in >IE. In line 83, delete the width specification, and the table looks >fine in IE. Thanks Dale, that fixed it. Now I have another CSS question. Can an external css file be in a different directory? I've been trying that and can't get it to work. For example, I'd like to put all the "counties" files in one folder/directory. But when I do, I lose all the formatting even if I reference the correct css file in the website. It seems like such a waste of space to put a css file in every folder. And I certainly don't want to have to work with a site that only has pages without directories to organize them. As usual, all help is deeply appreciated. [email protected], Patrice

Pat, None of this makes a bit of sense to me. I did the drag and drop you suggested and some more of the graphics came up but not all. Now if you hold the mouse over the name the graphic appears (except for a picture in the middle) - go figure. Maybe tomorrow - lol. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pat, I looked at the link. How did you do that? Honestly, I don't have time to learn how to do anything else. I have worked on this for a week. I could have built an entire new page by now. You suggested the drag and drop before but there are no files to drag. That's what I can't understand. I'll go back to FileZilla and see if I can do it there. Let me know if anyone else has any ideas. At least I have part of it operating again. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >>have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >>FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >>were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >>deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >>know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in >>getting >>the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the >>hyperlinks >>and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up >>and >>operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to >>begin >>with. >> >>Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >>they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >>derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the >>page. >>Take a look and give me your opinion. >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a >>great >>help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it >>that >>way but I don't. > =========== > Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my > sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then > reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are > one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own > styling and moving from shared borders to includes. > > If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not > previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem > the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. > > I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you > started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to > maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ > View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will > see the difference. > > You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - > colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes > and shared borders. > > If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be > able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload > them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. > I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. > > Pat > > > > Pat Geary > Microsoft MVP - FrontPage > http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ > http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At 09:38 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of >FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There >were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I >deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't >know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in getting >the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the hyperlinks >and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up and >operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to begin >with. > >Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know >they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My >derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the page. >Take a look and give me your opinion. >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a great >help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it that >way but I don't. =========== Kathy, I do not use either themes or shared border on any of my sites. Have you tried formatting and removing the theme and then reapplying it? The problems caused by themes and shared borders are one of the main reasons I recommend moving from a theme to your own styling and moving from shared borders to includes. If when you preview your site on your hard drive in the browser - not previewing in fp but previewing in the actual browser, it would seem the files/graphics you need are there just not being uploaded. I believe I offered this to you once before as a way to get you started on a redesign of your site that would be much easier to maintain. http://www.the-gearys.com/kathy/ View he source on that page and then on your own page and you will see the difference. You are still welcome to use it and make any changes you want - colors, graphics whatever.. It will get you totally away from themes and shared borders. If all the graphics needed are in the derived folder, you should be able to drag that folder to the the public_html folder and upload them. I wish I could be of more help in figuring out what is wrong. I'll check with a couple more people and see if anyone can offer advice. Pat Pat Geary Microsoft MVP - FrontPage http://www.genealogy-web-creations.com/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/expression-web/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gearyfamily/frontpage/ http://www.genealogy-computer-tips.com/

Pat, I have done everything that you suggested. The greatest benefit of FileZilla is that I can actually see all the files on the server. There were a lot of "overlay" files in there that were old and not used so I deleted those. There were files coming before public_html (why I don't know) so I deleted those. Didn't make any progress in FileZilla in getting the page uploaded so I went back to Front Page, recalculated the hyperlinks and uploaded. Well, I was half way successful. I got the page back up and operating but 1/2 of the graphics are missing, which was my problem to begin with. Do you know where I can go to find the problem with the graphics? I know they are in the -derived file but I don't know what I'm looking for. My derived file in Front Page is empty but 1/2 of the graphics are on the page. Take a look and give me your opinion. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nchender/index.htm You and Peggy have been a great help so far - just wish I knew more about html and maybe I could fix it that way but I don't. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Geary" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [ROOTSWEB-HELP] upload from Front Page > At 08:39 PM 11/27/2007, you wrote: >>I have been maintaining this website for 2 or 3 years and have not had any >>trouble previously in uploading. This time I went in to update the info >>and >>1/2 of the graphics were missing. The more I try to fix things the worse >>it >>gets. Everything looks fine in Front Page and in preview but it still >>won't >>go to the website. Right now I have 1/2 of the information on the index >>page up there, nothing else. Don't know what I have done. > > Kathy, Try downloading FileZilla or if you already have a ftp program > transfer the files using that. If you need help, I can walk you thru it. > > You can also try downloading fp cleaner from here > http://www.95isalive.com/fixes/fpclean.htm > > Install and run it deleting the temp files and cach files > Then open frontpage and recalculate hyperlinks and try publishing again. > > pat > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At 06:14 PM 11/28/2007, Patrice wrote: >I am having a problem with a CSS layout for >http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders >beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the >content header and the table. I can tell you what is causing it, but not why it has that effect in IE. In line 83, delete the width specification, and the table looks fine in IE. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Hi, I am having a problem with a CSS layout for http://www.flgenweb.net/countylist.html. The page renders beautifully in Firefox, but IE is leaving a huge gap between the content header and the table. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it and the solution still eludes me. I've probably been looking at it too long. I don't really think that the problem is the CSS, but my html. Any help would be appreciated. [email protected], Patrice